Open mike 05/11/2022

46 comments on “Open mike 05/11/2022 ”

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1. roblogic 1

   5 November 2022 at 6:30 am

   Parihaka invasion, 140 years ago today. “Te Rā o te Pāhua” – The Day of Plunder

   https://youtu.be/LsvJUUq5T34
2. Jester 2

   5 November 2022 at 8:54 am

   This is what happens with a soft on crime and let's not prosecute the young ones to keep youth crime statistics down. The seriousness of the crime increases now from robbery / ram raid, to attempted murder (or as they see it, a bit of a laugh at someone else's expense).

   Mountain biker deliberately hit by stolen car likely driven by child | Stuff.co.nz

   The Greens want more of us to ride bikes instead of using our cars, but this will put some off.
   • roblogic 2.1

     5 November 2022 at 9:14 am

     What a rubbish narrative.

     https://twitter.com/DailyIndgnation/status/1582470527381565441?s=20&t=dQpm3gQsc3ZpyzGOyp3r4A
     • Jester 2.1.1

       5 November 2022 at 9:37 am

       I'm sure the guy knocked off his bike and the shops that have been ram raided 8 times agree with you.

       Auckland burglaries: Liquor store group hit for the eighth time – NZ Herald
       • roblogic 2.1.1.1

         5 November 2022 at 11:48 am

         Yes, Crime is bad. Funny how it's suddenly a problem now. But when FJK was the PM the media gave him a free pass for failing to collect crime stats and telling the Police to cover it up.

         Hypocrisy mate.

         This Government has put more cops on the street than any before it. Has made more effort to house the homeless and address inequality than any in 50 years. Has had to deal with thousands of 501 deportees from our “friends” in Australia.

         Get real.

         Don’t allow emotive headlines distract you from the fact that National are liars and their version of being tough on crime is to gut Police numbers, destroy mental health services, and make the poorest Kiwis homeless.

         White collar criminals are the worst.
         • Corey Humm 2.1.1.1.1

           5 November 2022 at 2:59 pm

           While the click baiting of crime porn is pretty crappy and the govt has put more cops on the streets…

           Someone is going to die from these little shits and my mum is a home help nurse who bikes to and from five different clients houses all around town every day, this stuff is terrifying her and myself as she works in these areas.

           I don't know what the solution is but there are a lot of lefty's who downright deny these little thugs exist, probably cos this behavior is happening in more working class and poor parts of town and a lot of internet lefty's don't live in those parts of town (not talking about you I'm talking about Twitter lefty's) I've seen these "lefty's" swarm people who live in state houses complain about gangs and thugs ruining their lives and the govt refusing to do anything about it, as someone who grew up in a state house the no evictions ever rule is stupid and dangerous, violent thugs should be evicted from the privilege of state housing.

           Im not sure what the answer is, in a lot of cases you've got parents telling the kids to go ram raid and steal shit for them cos they won't get arrested, in others you've got the rise in violent crime from Australia exporting their crims here

           Also a lot of these kids have no attachment to society, a lot of them have grown up in cars and motels and are rebelling against the society that failed them and despite the hype is still miserably failing them.

           This govt needs to build 3 x the state housing it currently is annually. The fact we're just building slightly more than state houses annually than the first labour govt despite there being nearly 3x the population is not enough.

           The state housing being built these giant complexes is ill suited to vulnerable people who are constantly reporting about being terrorized by neighbors, we need to be continuing to build a mix of complexes, units and individual dwellings for diverse needs.

           More houses may being built but they aren't appropriate or simply aren't getting to the people who need them.

           This government is failing the next generation on housing, just less than the previous govt, these kids are the result of decades of a neglectful state and unless something truly radical is done , these problems are going to get worse and worse with more and more people falling through the cracks and becoming resentful and hateful.
           • bwaghorn 2.1.1.1.1.1

             5 November 2022 at 3:10 pm

             https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130328920/it-feels-like-your-child-has-died-mum-says-she-feels-powerless-to-help-teen-son-who-continues-to-offend

             Some of these kids are from perfectly fine homes(if there's such a thing) but the police and parents and the system is toothless to do anything without the little wild child's permission,.
           • millsy 2.1.1.1.1.2

             5 November 2022 at 3:54 pm

             Allowing tenants to be thrown out of state housing without any semblance of due process will solve nothing. All it will do is have innocent tenants evicted due to false and fabricated allegations, or as the one strike and youre out policy in the USA that you obviously so admire has proven, lead to innocent people people getting kicked out because of the actions of their family members, like in the 1990's when a 63 year old grandmother found herself on the street because her grandson was caught dealing drugs 2 blocks away.

             Tough on crime BS has no place in the left. All it does is lead society down a dark hole, where people are beaten to death for minor infractions.
             • Molly …

               6 November 2022 at 9:29 am

               "Allowing tenants to be thrown out of state housing without any semblance of due process will solve nothing."

               I don't think anyone is proposing this millsy. The difficulty is having a process that considers the impact on immediate neighbours and local community if abusive and intimidating behaviour is unable to be adequately addressed.

               I also believe that some form of housing has to be the responsibility of the state – so, a removal from one provision, must necessarily result in another provision of shelter. It is the form and the reduction of impact on others, that could be discussed here.

               The issue is not only about state housing either. A more effective way of addressing such escalated behaviour is needed for private provision, whether the occupants own or rent.

               Existing police response is to attend, take notes and leave. For many this results in an escalation of intimidation.

               How is that to be addressed?
         • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1.1.2

           5 November 2022 at 10:52 pm

           Agree robologic the amount stolen by wealthy wheelers and dealers is jaw dropping. I have been pleased to see some of these characters in front of the courts. The new laws where ownership must have records or a paper trail is catching a few more. Some of the GST rorts are huge. Poor people do commit crimes, they affect few, some white collar crime affects hundreds. They seldom make the news as they can afford upmarket lawyers who use the system to broker deals or keep them from public glare.
           Further to the cars with young offenders, I do feel there is a group in NZ now who are trying to make NZ ungovernable. One youth was responsible for 81 crimes over a few days. It was out of control behaviour.
           Some of these children are FAS or drug impaired.
           They also have better relationships with devices than people. Socialisation is crucial.
           “We will be hard on crime” is a right wing trope.
           • Molly 2.1.1.1.2.1

             6 November 2022 at 9:39 am

             "“We will be hard on crime” is a right wing trope."

             Yes, but what is the left-wing response?

             "We will …?"

             The justice system should be able to deal with white collar crime AND other criminal acts effectively. If more resources are needed for both, then let's advocate for resources for both investigation, prosecution and punishment. Including any necessary programmes for rehabilitation.

             As you say, many of these young offenders will require a different response than those who commit white collar crimes. FAS is a contributing factor for many because of the poor decision making, and easy manipulation aspects of the syndrome.

             So, what should the familiar left-wing trope on addressing criminal acts be?

             "We will protect all our people"? I can't currently think of a pithy but true statement that can be offered in response. Maybe someone else can.
   • millsy 2.2

     5 November 2022 at 9:29 am

     The increased crime narrative is one that is pushed by those who want to clamp down on civil liberties and suspend due process, as well as make police completely immune from any and all accountablity (ie they want to let cops just beat up and gun down who they like). I really dont want NZ turning into a police state, which is what National and ACT (along with New Conservatives) want to do.

     Same thing is happening in the USA, with GOP that effectively wants to bring back lynching set to take Congress this coming Wednesday.
   • Peter 2.3

     5 November 2022 at 10:18 am

     "Soft on crime" is often used a pathetic cliché. Like here.

     Every crime is important. Every victim and what has happened to them is important. Reducing those to the moronic Mark Mitchell chant is, well, moronic. It's a lot easier to utter a political slogan than come up with something meaningful.

     14 year old ram raiders were born with National in Government. They've lived most of their lives with the Nats in power. For nearly half their lives Mark Mitchell was in Cabinet.

     Maybe if Mitchell prefaced every comment and press release about crime with with, "I acknowledge I bear some responsibility for creating a social environment where there are so many young offenders. I am determined to work constructively with all political parties to progress meaningful solutions to the problem by addressing the causative societal conditions."

     His "soft on crime" mantra and "lock 'em up" mentality though sits perfectly with simpletons.

     The fact that the one looked to and lauded for his forthright "let's deal to them" attitude being on elf the authors of the problem, is beyond them.
   • Incognito 2.4

     5 November 2022 at 12:40 pm

     Unsuspecting Bystander Hit by Windmill at Wedding.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4jTfvsfehc

     Surely, this will put off many from the Greens’ green policies.
     • higherstandard 2.4.1

       5 November 2022 at 1:58 pm

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcsjgoGqCRQ
   • roblogic 2.5

     6 November 2022 at 9:14 am

     just a wee reminder – the gNatz closed 30 police stations & gave tax cuts to the wealthy

     https://twitter.com/auc_nz/status/1588487707155918854?s=46&t=Tvjkjrk9vkcyTR1GxrWd2g

     https://twitter.com/auc_nz/status/1588489510681464832?s=46&t=Tvjkjrk9vkcyTR1GxrWd2g
3. Jenny are we there yet 3

   5 November 2022 at 10:39 am

   War criminals be warned. In the age of the internet you are not anonymous.

   @24:40 minutes

   “The question that haunts war crimes prosecutors is how any human being could be capable of the savagery displayed in Ukraine by Russian soldiers”

   My take; if you can dehumanise Ukrainians with a hateful depiction of them as ‘fascists’, if you think you are fighing fascists, any crime seems justified against ‘fascists’.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IDvRB1n3x0
   • swordfish 3.1

     5 November 2022 at 2:39 pm

     .

     War criminals be warned. In the age of the internet you are not anonymous.

     Cheers for the tip-off, Jenny … I was just about to commit a major War Crime … but I'll now think better of it.

     Thanks to you, my mass genocide days are over.
     • Shanreagh 3.1.1

       5 November 2022 at 2:43 pm

       I think they already knew about the long range missile in your garage Swordfish.
     • fender 3.1.2

       5 November 2022 at 3:26 pm

       Pleased to hear you woke up from your war crime intentions slumber!
     • Jenny are we there yet 3.1.3

       6 November 2022 at 7:54 am

       Presented with the evidence of these atrocities, and the tragedy and suffering of the victims, flippancy is not the right response.

       You might think you are being funny, but the victims of these atrocities wouldn't.

       |“The question that haunts war crimes prosecutors is how any human being could be capable of the savagery displayed in Ukraine by Russian soldiers”

       Let us try and get behind the eyes of the killers and see it from their perspective.

       Words Kill

       Russian soldiers have been told they are fighting fascists – in the minds of the perpetrators, atrocities can be rationalised against ‘fascists’.

       As if demonising Ukrainians as fascists, was not enough to get Russian soldiers to kill and brutalise Ukrainians, Russian law maker, Assistant Secretary of the Security Council of Russia Alexey Pavlov, attempts to incite even more Russian hatred against Ukraine and Ukrainians, accusing Ukraine of not just being fascist but Satanist as well.

       Alexey Pavlov says Ukraine needs not just to be denazified but needs to be desatanised.

       ….Alexey Pavlov is the Assistant Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, a body chaired by Vladimir Putin himself and including the heads of all defense and security agencies. On October 25, he published an article in Argumenty i Fakty (Arguments and Facts), a weekly newspaper owned by the Government of Moscow. A short summary was published by the wire agency Tass.

       ….According to Pavlov the new Ukrainian political personnel included a disproportionate percentage of Pentecostals and Lubavitcher Jews. Above all, “the first post-Maidan Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was a Hubbardist, a follower of the Church of Scientology, banned in Russia as a totalitarian cult.” This theory was first advanced in 2014 by Russia’s leading anti-cultist, Alexander Dvorkin, but even within the anti-cult community many told him that there was no evidence that Yatsenyuk, an active member of the Greek Catholic community, was a Scientologist.

       …..Pavlov explains that the real aim of the Ukrainian democratic politicians and their American puppeteers was to take the country “from Maidan to Satan.” He confuses Neo-Paganism and Satanism, attributes a disproportionate importance to the tiny Ukrainian Neo-Pagan movement (ignoring that there is a Neo-Pagan movement in Russia as well), and claims that Neo-Paganism in Ukraine was fueled and promoted by the United States—and Canada, since there are Neo-Pagans among the Ukrainian diaspora in that country….

       https://bitterwinter.org/russian-official-calls-for-desatanization-ukraine/

       Such words kill. That's their purpose.

       Mock and belittle all you like.
   • bwaghorn 3.2

     5 November 2022 at 3:13 pm

     It always surprises me that people think you can take a man and turn him into a killer, then expect him to operate inside the boundaries that people in some work group think is appropriate for war, .
     • Molly 3.2.1

       6 November 2022 at 9:55 am

       I think it is often more complicated than that.

       It depends on the reasons people have for entering the service, the position the military has in their country, the training they receive, the deployments they go on, whether they are involved in active combat, and whether that active combat is able to be morally justified (by their country and themselves) or not.

       The experience of a NZ soldier who is trained in quite an equitable Defence Force, and deployed to the Antarctic, and on rebuilding or Civil Defence projects, is entirely different to that of an Israeli soldier completing their conscription requirement, or a US grunt who has entered the Army to escape poverty.

       The diversity of men and women entering is greater than that leaving the forces, but a wide diversity remains.

       Those who served in World Wars both contributed and were harmed in different ways from those currently serving now.

       As with the Fire Service which attracts arsonists, I'm sure the Defence Force attracts members of society that are attracted to the idea of violence and/or weaponry. Adequate recruitment and training practices should allow these people to be identified and removed from their roles.

       For those who are well-trained and disciplined, I think the focus is on avoiding unnecessary confrontation and conflict, rather than creating it.

       I know that many of those I know in service, are the ones that I would rather see in response to Civil Emergencies than any other response service because of their training and organisational skills.
4. aj 4

   5 November 2022 at 11:02 am

   The Americans are not going to pull out of either Christchurch or McMurdo.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130354242/why-an-economist-told-ministers-not-to-rebuild-scott-base
   • Maurice 4.1

     5 November 2022 at 12:13 pm

     The next best policy to exploiting a resource is to prevent your global opponents from doing so.
   • alwyn 4.2

     5 November 2022 at 12:45 pm

     You say "The Americans are not going to pull out of either Christchurch or McMurdo"

     The story you link to says

     "“I've seen a number of reports done by US officials on the economics of McMurdo, and it is touch-and-go whether it's better to provide logistics support through South America or through New Zealand or Australia.".

     Just what additional information do you have, apart from "feelz" that make you so convinced that your claim is correct?
     • aj 4.2.1

       5 November 2022 at 7:38 pm

       Feelz. And history.
       • alwyn 4.2.1.1

         5 November 2022 at 8:57 pm

         Well I hope you are right. I have known a lot of people, over many years, who have been involved in the work down there. I would hate to see it come to an end, which it surely would, if the US scrapped McMurdo Base.
5. Ad 5

   5 November 2022 at 12:42 pm

   Hey people how's Conference?
6. joe90 6

   5 November 2022 at 1:00 pm

   Buyers remorse, Elmo?

   https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1588538640401018880
   • arkie 6.1

     5 November 2022 at 1:08 pm

     Lonny sounds very Trump-like there.
     • joe90 6.1.1

       5 November 2022 at 1:22 pm

       The invisible hand of the market.
       /

       And in other news, it ain't going well.

       https://twitter.com/yuhline/status/1588446052360900613
       • AB 6.1.1.1

         5 November 2022 at 4:59 pm

         Would be nice if the invisible hand had its invisible middle finger raised.
       • joe90 6.1.1.2

         5 November 2022 at 7:47 pm

         The hole gets deeper.

         https://twitter.com/KetanJ0/status/1588531988734308355
   • weston 6.2

     5 November 2022 at 10:22 pm

     Musk interview from a couple of days or so ago plus QnA at the end Never heard of the host but some dude called Ron Baron

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeEmVxMFM4Q
7. adam 7

   5 November 2022 at 1:06 pm

   The next hitler, his meme is getting used again and again.

   How can a collection of people got duped by arms manufacturers over and over. Oh wait the last 40 odd years of continuous war. We get lied to over and over.

   Ever thought what it might be like without trillions wasted on war?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fTxHIVUjRc
   • millsy 7.1

     5 November 2022 at 3:58 pm

     Ideologically, I find Putin closer to Franco and Pinochet more than Hitler.
8. bwaghorn 8

   5 November 2022 at 4:30 pm

   https://www.ft.com/content/6db18a31-5600-409b-b3db-8c901ecdc499

   A un study thinks that rampant planting to offset emmisions is not so good and possibly dangerous, I agree it just let's emitters feel good.
9. Ad 9

   5 November 2022 at 9:07 pm

   25 24 holy crap it's tight
   • dv 9.1

     5 November 2022 at 9:23 pm

     And France have penalty 1 min to go!!!

     Bugger

     Missed it!!!

     Won!!!
   • joe90 9.2

     5 November 2022 at 9:27 pm

     Cocksedge’s my player of the match.
     • Ad 9.2.1

       5 November 2022 at 11:01 pm

       One of the best games of Rugby I've ever been to.
10. SPC 10

    5 November 2022 at 9:55 pm

    If a French player had passed to the outside, rather than the inside, they would have scored the winning try in the same corner as in 1994.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJfvfx0titc
11. Corey Humm 11

    5 November 2022 at 9:59 pm

    https://youtu.be/wLFE95ebLNU

    Has anyone seen the YouTube video that shows the kick off to labour's convention? Its says a lot about the membership of the modern labour party.

    A couple minutes in, a reel plays of the governments achievements, it's the typical glossy pr generic political propaganda all parties do now but what is striking is the announcements the party cheers for and stays silent for…

    They are silent as mice when apprenticeships, state houses, wages, union stuff is mentioned then explode in cheers when things like tampons , conversion therapy,guns, Maori issues, evs and environmental stuff on the reel comes up.

    Part of me hopes the left wing economic stuff wasn't cheered because the party doesn't think it has done enough…

    But I've been a member of labour my entire adult life until I let it lapse last year. I know why the membership didn't cheer anything for apprenticeships and statehouses or benefits and that's because the party membership is becoming almost exclusively middle to upper middle class professional managerial types who don't care for left wing economic policies and won't push for them not will they cheer for them.

    Identity politics and half arsed eco policy is what that crowd cheered for, they might as well be the Aussie teal wave supporters.

    Ardern better announce something big that appeals to more than just the teal brigade and public servants tomorrow.

    A national/act govt will lay waste to the poor and working class in this country and while labour ignores them in favor of the middle to upper middle, national is doing a pretty good job at convincing poor and working class people to vote against their interests.
    • Molly 11.1

      6 November 2022 at 8:50 am

      Thanks for the link.

      (If that's the best they could claim after five years, it's fairly underwhelming.)
12. Patricia Bremner 12

    5 November 2022 at 11:16 pm

    Labour are using the conference to ready their members for the dirty politics and a tight race where funds are needed and calm council will be provided to help members have answers for lies and tropes and disrupters.

    The Iranians outside the conference are not understanding the limitations laid on Prime Ministers and even Governments in some circumstances.

    I understand Robertson "having a go" at Nats and Luxon, but a better strategy is to provide further underpinning of workers pay and conditions, as they have with the bus drivers, furthe Countdown pay offers settled by their union lays a great start.

    This is what people need to see over the next 12 months and lay foundations people will not want taken away by Nat/Act.

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