Open Mike 05/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 5th, 2018 - 256 comments
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256 comments on “Open Mike 05/12/2018 ”

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  1. Robert Guyton 1
    5 December 2018 at 6:30 am

    We banked more rainwater in our soil last night, in readiness for any summer drought that might occur in the South. Plenty of lightning in the air over the past few days. Askew, Deow, Icarus and co. made a beautiful job of the walls of our village over the 4 days they were here painting; they finished just as the first peals of thunder began to roll, having enjoyed hot, sunny weather all the while they worked.
    (As an aside, has anyone here ever search Google for the word “askew” 🙂

    • WeTheBleeple 1.1
      5 December 2018 at 7:21 am

      Haha that’s neat.

      Nearly finished the article on water systems. It’s becoming clear part of ‘how to get there’ will also be part of my ‘multifunctional shelter belts’ (working title) which the nitrogen fixers in turn are part of…

      My only concern is I retain rights to the material posted here as some of it will wind up in the book.

      Been looking over the PDC, some of it… I can’t wait! The AK bio-region stuff, the tree crops stuff, you never know what you’ll learn.

      Thinking about expanding more sub-tropicals up here, bananas and Taro definitely, they love the water. Any suggestions?

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 8:05 am

        Are you not going to be an “open source” writer 🙂
        We called our heritage apple project, “Open Orchard” with the thought that all of our findings could be freely accessed and developed and that’s going well.
        I’m not sure if you’ve seen this archive here on The Standard.
        https://thestandard.org.nz/search/forest+gardens/
        Bananas and taro are well out of my sphere, for the moment, but I’ve heard great praise for taro (might have been from you 🙂
        A visitor gave me two white sapote seeds recently and while I’m unlikely to succeed in growing them, I have them soaking, ready for planting in pots in the tunnelhouse. There are some really interesting tree crops people up your way – I met them when speaking at their annual hui last year (I think it was). Great depth of experience and knowledge; enthusiasm too.
        May I quote you?
        “Thinking about expanding more sub-tropicals up here, bananas and Taro definitely, they love the water. Any suggestions?”
        Yep. Give ’em plenty!
        🙂

        • greywarshark 1.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 9:50 am

          Hi RG and WTB
          Good to see you. Further discussion on a permanent site and how to organise it coming? I sent my email to you Robert, you are in touch with WTB – can we have a discussion and with TS mods?

          Open Mike is not a permanent depository. This is needed for the useful material already presented on how NZ will green up and grow up using helpful, co-operative ways. So if you want to turn TS potential for bringing positive, human-loving and environment-caring people together we can move together on this; starting talking now and with a plan for New Year start. We can learn what we need to know in the interim.

          • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 9:05 pm

            Robert Guyton and WetheBleeple
            I’m waiting to hear from you that’s if you want me to be involved. If you don’t fine, and if I don’t hear anything by late Friday I will back off.

            • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 9:33 pm

              Hi greywarshark – fret not, good friend! I/we surely do want you and I’ve just finished talking with trp about our launch time – more about that soon. Don’t pack your bags on Friday, I’m angling for the weekend as a start time – whadda ya reckon? There are others, emailing me behind the TS scenes, who are keen to play. I reckon it’s worth giving it a go. I’m pretty keen not to set a topic each time – let the first poster try to do that 🙂 I’m happy to roll out of bed early on a weekend day and have a go at herding cats, though we may be sloths our turtles, being all happy-flappy and that…not disgruntled malcontents…or ARE we??? 🙂
              Should be fun. Thanks for being our archivist and Overseer – I need that…I can…drift….
              Waiting to hear now from Te Reo Putake and his mates. Fingers crossed (anything could happen in the next half hour!).
              Robert

        • WeTheBleeple 1.1.1.2
          5 December 2018 at 2:00 pm

          Didn’t see that series of yours no. Loved part one. Will read more later as time allows.

          My plant collecting has been limited for ages by budget but is getting better now. I killed a lot too as I learned how not to do it. The gardens have reduced the food budget drastically so more plants can come in now. I like that it builds itself in this way.

          The gardens did receive a major setback via contractors bulldozer blades, diggers, path making, painting… ah the life of a renter. This year (2 later) it’s back to lots of food, before that it was cover crops and healing the mess. Lost a lot of species had no idea their idea of ‘cleaning up’ was with a dozer blade.

          Great landlord, cowboy contractors.

          I imagine meeting the permies up here will allow access to swap cuttings and methods, I also look forward to this.

          Open source… I don’t have much of a clue with the legal stuff. My ideas have been taken and turned to profit before. I want open access, and people can use, share and disseminate information to help themselves and their community, but I retain the right to use the stuff I write for my book, not whatever website/s use it.

          Make sense? I’ve incurred a lot of debt getting to the point I feel I have no idea professionally, it would be nice to bumble along from here without abject poverty. Things’ll work out…

    • Matiri 1.2
      5 December 2018 at 8:20 am

      Anne Askew is a small part of Hilary Mantel’s Wolf Hall story – tortured and burnt at the stake for heresy. She was one feisty woman!

  2. Ad 2
    5 December 2018 at 6:58 am

    Is anyone else experiencing a really bonkers-intense lead up to Christmas?

    Work is nuts

    • gsays 2.1
      5 December 2018 at 7:17 am

      Hospo in palmy is going gang busters.
      No such thing as a quiet night currently.
      Two record weeks in a row…..

    • Antoine 2.2
      5 December 2018 at 10:52 am

      Its been full on since late Nov. There is something scheduled just about every day. Kids are getting frazzled

      A.

    • DJ Ward 2.3
      5 December 2018 at 8:06 pm

      Yes. For my work project timelines get off track due to holidays so there is always a panic to get things finished. It doesn’t really change anything as the projects often take years. Some irrational human behavour induced by people wearing suits and reporting KPIs to other suits.

      Bonus for me is my contracts get extended.

  3. Puckish Rogue 3
    5 December 2018 at 7:30 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/109066831/teachers-and-principals-vote-on-governments-latest-contract-offers

    “We know the public is still on our side, and that we have solidarity across schools and now also with our PPTA colleagues.”

    I wouldn’t be too confident about having the support of the public the longer this goes on……

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      5 December 2018 at 11:09 am

      I wouldn’t bank on you knowing WTF you’re talking about.

      Most people understand that teachers are just as important as politicians and should be paid as much.

      • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 11:10 am

        We’ll see

        • Puckish Rogue 3.1.2.1
          5 December 2018 at 11:18 am

          I’d be ok with that

        • Wayne 3.1.2.2
          5 December 2018 at 3:00 pm

          Molly,

          It is a truth that disguises a lie.

          In 1996 when I was first elected my MP salary was virtually the same as my salary as an associate professor. Except it wasn’t. There were so many non taxable extras added on that my total MP package was effectively 50% higher. That method of padding remuneration was even more so in the 1970’s.

          This all got changed in the mid 2000’s, when all the extras were included in the basic MP salary. The effect was that when I left parliament, a basic MP salary was 50% higher than an associate professor salary. But in truth there had been no effective change in relativity since 1996.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.1.2.2.1
            5 December 2018 at 3:07 pm

            Thanks for posting Wayne, always good to get an “insiders” perspective

          • Molly 3.1.2.2.2
            5 December 2018 at 4:46 pm

            Thanks Wayne, but your personal example comes after more than a decade of Rogernomics.

            I have had a quick search to see if I can find a historical record, but perhaps you would have a better idea where to look.

            I’d be interested, though, in what kind of padding was allowable when you were MP in 1996.

      • Enough is Enough 3.1.3
        5 December 2018 at 11:22 am

        Most people should let their local MPs know that so that the Government does something about it.

        Sadly, they like all their post ’84 predecessors will do fuck all until we demand proper change. Not this smiling bullshit kind of capitalism that they are progressing.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.3.1
          5 December 2018 at 11:41 am

          Most people should let their local MPs know that so that the Government does something about it.

          Is there a process available that easy to use, can be counted and have the count publicly available?

          Something like, say, Loomio but run by government to actually give people an active voice in government?

          That’s part of the problem with maintaining a paper process designed in the 19th century. It’s far too hard to actually bring about the level of political participation that we need both for the general populace and the people doing the counting.

          • Enough is Enough 3.1.3.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 2:06 pm

            Agreed

            My comment was more of just a rant about how so many people don’t challenge this government to do better. As long as Labour are in power it seems to some people that the problems will sort themselves out and we should just clap from the sidelines as absolutely no bold reforms ever look like being introduced.

            I become more frustrated every day with how it just seems like business as usual. The status quo remains and the 1% have hardly have a dent laid against them…..yet somehow we are all happy?

  4. gsays 4
    5 December 2018 at 7:40 am

    Another failure of the neo liberal way of doing things.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109076540/corbel-subbie-owed-700k-didnt-know-about-longstanding-problems

    There is something manifestly unjust about the building industry.

    Company directors can run subcontractors even when they know they are not able to pay them.

    Meanwhile the people who actually do the work have pay denied them leading into Christmas.

    Yet these same company directors ceo’s etc get to pick up another well paid job while others clean up their mess

    Where are the consequences for these handsomely renumerated men?

    • greywarshark 4.1
      5 December 2018 at 9:56 am

      gsays
      Your points – so true.

    • Jum 4.2
      5 December 2018 at 10:36 am

      Contractors, Sub-Contractors should have a risk-free account of funding provided by the company at the start of the job. If the job doesn’t go ahead, the company has lost nothing. If the company goes under, the contractors, sub-contractors have retained their income. This funding should include future loss because the contractors, sub-contractors have chosen that job over others.

    • Antoine 4.3
      5 December 2018 at 10:53 am

      Who would be a subbie?

      Myself I dont let accounts go more than a few weeks in arrears. I know not everyone has this luxury though

      A.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.4
      5 December 2018 at 11:12 am

      Where are the consequences for these handsomely renumerated men?

      I’m pretty sure that you’ll find that they’ve been legally protected from the decisions for decades if not centuries. After all, having the rich held accountable for their actions wouldn’t help the capitalists become ever richer.

      Hence we have trusts and business structures that hide the wealth and the people who own it.

      • gsays 4.4.1
        5 December 2018 at 1:04 pm

        It’s a beautiful irony that folk who are hard to trust, have trusts.

      • JohnSelway 4.4.2
        5 December 2018 at 6:42 pm

        Trusts aren’t just used to hide assets. They have a valuable place when used properly to make sure certain assets stay within a family.

        My father died recently and used a trust to keep many important family heirlooms within the family so his ex partner couldn’t try make a claim on them (which she tried)

        • Chris T 4.4.2.1
          5 December 2018 at 6:58 pm

          Exactly

          They can form a shied in more ways than one

          My mother died about the same time my step father turned into a prick when I was young.

          It stopped him from stripping her side of their assets so they could be passed to her children

        • Draco T Bastard 4.4.2.2
          6 December 2018 at 12:17 am

          They have a valuable place when used properly to make sure certain assets stay within a family.

          Which, of course, is fully free-market doctrine. People are supposed to be able to lose from their bad decisions.

          My father died recently and used a trust to keep many important family heirlooms within the family so his ex partner couldn’t try make a claim on them (which she tried)

          So, what you’re saying is that, although she had a valid claim, her ownership rights were shorted by the trust?

          After all, if she didn’t have a valid claim then the courts would have thrown her case out.

          Trusts aren’t just used to hide assets.

          That may be true but the fact that trusts are used to hide assets makes trusts nothing but another vehicle for corruption.

          • JohnSelway 4.4.2.2.1
            6 December 2018 at 9:36 am

            Well, no. She may have had a legal claim but that doesn’t mean she had a valid claim. You yourself have said several times legal doesn’t mean right or ethical.

            Secondly this just plays right into your idea that because something can be used for purposes antethical to their original purpose then they should be banned. Like I said before – the benefit can be used for corruption/dishonesty but you wouldn’t advocate banning it because of those reasons.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.4.2.2.1.1
              6 December 2018 at 10:18 am

              She may have had a legal claim but that doesn’t mean she had a valid claim.

              Court was still the place to sort it out.

              Secondly this just plays right into your idea that because something can be used for purposes antethical to their original purpose then they should be banned. Like I said before – the benefit can be used for corruption/dishonesty but you wouldn’t advocate banning it because of those reasons.

              As far as I can see trusts have never had a valid reason to exist. Protecting people’s wealth is not valid. Under the capitalist system people are supposed to lose for their bad decisions. Under socialism even if people lose they’re not going to lose their life due to poverty.

              And everything I’ve seen indicates that trusts are used primarily for unethical purposes. Just look at how the number of foreign owned trusts in NZ dropped once more information was required.

              There is no valid reason to have trusts.

              • solkta …
                6 December 2018 at 10:56 am

                So you don’t think families and extended families should be able to own property collectively?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  6 December 2018 at 11:45 am

                  What has that got to do with a trust?

                  Dude, I don’t think anybody should be able to own property (except for small personal stuff) as it sets up unearned income which is detrimental to society.

                  • JohnSelway …
                    6 December 2018 at 11:49 am

                    The items we have protected in our trust are personal items Draco. Some of them have real monetary value but isn’t the reason for the protection.

                  • solkta …
                    6 December 2018 at 12:14 pm

                    That is what a family trust does. It means that all the beneficiaries including those not born yet have rights to the property.

                    If you don’t think there should be private property then you should say that, but that is something different from saying that there are no valid reasons for trusts.

              • JohnSelway …
                6 December 2018 at 11:35 am

                Well – we don’t need the courts to sort it out because there was a trust in place. And there was a completely valid reason which was to make sure important family heirlooms were kept within the family.

                Valid, not for the purposes of wealth protection, and legal

              • JohnSelway …
                6 December 2018 at 11:43 am

                And it doesn’t apply to my fathers ex it also applies to my ex wife. She doesn’t want anything from the family – we sorted everything amicably and without the need for lawyers but the trust means important Selway (not my real name of course) family items stay within the family.

  5. Sacha 5
    5 December 2018 at 7:46 am

    Cracking interview on Morning Report with one of Maggie’s disgruntled ex-staffers – includes claims to have physical evidence of being directed to do purely political work (11mins): https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018674179/maggie-barry-bullying-claims-ex-staffer-speaks-out

    Expect some scrambling today ..

    • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 5.1
      5 December 2018 at 9:28 am

      On the basis of that interview, Barry’s toast! The more so because he claims to be able to produce evidence.

      It couldn’t happen to a nicer person!!

      • Anne 5.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 10:27 am

        It should be noted that the only person willing to be properly questioned is the one who laid the charges. The woman staffer who is defending MB and claiming she never knew about the recordings is only prepared to issue a statement. That alone indicates which one is telling the truth.

  6. Puckish Rogue 6
    5 December 2018 at 7:49 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/109089925/Karel-Sroubeks-estranged-wife-is-afraid-for-her-life?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    ‘National Party justice spokesman Mark Mitchell said she gave him a six-page letter that contained permission to speak on her behalf. He said she had been threatened by gangs and was “genuinely scared”.

    She was taking a massive risk speaking out and said she was forced to write the letter of support so her convicted smuggler husband did not get deported from New Zealand.’

    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/winston-peters-criticised-for-over-comments-about-karel-sroubeks-wife/

    “She came to the Opposition through a retired Labour minister, and it is my job as opposition to make sure the Government is held to account. And now she’s got the deputy Prime Minister making cheap political attacks and shots at her.”

    Dang this story has legs

    • Sacha 6.1
      5 December 2018 at 7:52 am

      Why would she reach out via a Labour person when she is going out with a Nat insider? Does not stack up.

      • mickysavage 6.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 7:53 am

        Former Labour ministers include Michael Bassett, Richard Prebble and Roger Douglas …

        • alwyn 6.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 9:34 am

          That really takes us back, doesn’t it micky.
          Those were the days when Labour attracted skilled and competent people to their ranks.
          Now the best they can manage is idiots like Lees-Galloway and Twyford.
          Oh for the good old days.

          • J 6.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 10:44 am

            So this is where you got to alwyn.

            Michael Bassett, Richard Prebble and Roger Douglas were acting as act in 1984; no amount of nonsense from you will change that fact.

            ‘ Douglas had an epiphany on mt pelerin and decided to let the markets rule. That has never been a true Labour value. Even Lange finally realised what douglas and co were up to. Labour was thrown out in 1990 – and I have always seen that decade as the biggest nat/extreme right set up I have ever seen. (politics of deception)’

            Apparently, he was working with treasury on his plans a year before Labour came into government; can’t see national letting him do that unless they were in on it.

          • J 6.1.1.1.2
            5 December 2018 at 10:54 am

            ‘By the end of 1983, his thinking had shifted markedly to the economic right.[27]

            In late 1983, Labour’s Caucus Economic Committee adopted a paper that Douglas named the economic policy package.’

          • AB 6.1.1.1.3
            5 December 2018 at 12:30 pm

            Alwyn – of those three, only Bassett isn’t a half-wit. (in my opinion). But he more than makes up for it with his incandescent nastiness.

            • alwyn 6.1.1.1.3.1
              5 December 2018 at 12:45 pm

              I am not saying that I agree with your evaluation of them but I would say that even a “half-wit” would be far beyond the mental capacity of the Lees-Galloway and Twyfords of this administration.

      • Puckish Rogue 6.1.2
        5 December 2018 at 7:57 am

        I’m guessing (because I’ve never been threatened or coerced by gangs) that shes scared and that Labour is in power and Labour MPs are in charge of police and corrections whereas National aren’t or are you suggesting that because her partner is a member of National she shouldn’t get any help at all?

      • Muttonbird 6.1.3
        5 December 2018 at 8:31 am

        They’re trying to put some distance between themselves and the information flowing.

        • Puckish Rogue 6.1.3.1
          5 December 2018 at 8:39 am

          On that just how did the immigration service manage to visit her?

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/109089925/Karel-Sroubeks-estranged-wife-is-afraid-for-her-life

          ‘One of the biggest questions that needed to be answered was how immigration officials tracked the woman down, when she was in a police safe house, Mitchell said.’

          So who leaked her whereabouts?

          • Muttonbird 6.1.3.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 8:49 am

            I’d suggest she’s not “in a police safe house”, and never has been.

          • Red Blooded One 6.1.3.1.2
            5 December 2018 at 9:02 am

            I dunno, Paula Bennett? Cameron Slater? Luigi Wewege? Mark Mitchell himself? or the fella from the National Party she is currently rooting? any guesses are just as ridiculous as your attempt to give this thing legs. It seems to me it is the National Party playing politics with these peoples lives. Good on Minister Lees-Galloway for reversing his original decision after finally being given the additional information. (which, it seems, the National Party already knew from pillow talk)

            • Puckish Rogue 6.1.3.1.2.1
              5 December 2018 at 9:12 am

              “Good on Minister Lees-Galloway for reversing his original decision after finally being given the additional information. ”

              He had the information to make the decision but he skimmed over the report, didn’t ask questions, didn’t know the immigration act and made the wrong decision but won’t admit to it

              But hey don’t take my word for it

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/108976779/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says-immigration-minister-iain-leesgalloway-staying-put

              In answers to questions in Parliament today, Winston Peters, answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, said Iain Lees-Galloway was ‘setting out, having made only one mistake in a year, to fix it up’.

              • Red Blooded One …
                5 December 2018 at 9:34 am

                From the article you refer to “There were elements of the case that were not available to the minister at the outset, at the time of making his original decision, she said.” Thanks for proving my point, PR. Original decision made, new information given, decision altered. Fixed up. Well done Iain Lees-Galloway.

                • alwyn …
                  5 December 2018 at 9:49 am

                  The words you quote were of course, as is quite clear from the article, a quote from Ms Ardern.
                  Do you really think they have any relation to reality or are they just a desperate claim from someone who is trying to hide from the reality that one of her Ministers is an idiot who is simply to lazy to do his job?

                  The only sensible comment from any of the Labour MPs is by Greg O’Connor. He has obviously decided that he isn’t going to get into the Cabinet and is setting out to tell truth to power in the Party.
                  He is starting to remind me of Gordon Christie who was a very good back bench MP for Napier from 1966 to 1981.

                  • Red Blooded One …
                    5 December 2018 at 10:06 am

                    Yes, the article did report Prime Minister Ardern making that statement. If you are calling her a liar on this quote, please provide proof.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  5 December 2018 at 9:55 am

                  You’re right he didn’t have all the information but heres what we know:

                  Drug dealing, drug manufacturing, drug importation, gang association and violence

                  Which of the above do you think should have suggested to ILG that he shouldn’t grant residency

                  • SaveNZ …
                    5 December 2018 at 1:17 pm

                    lucky he ‘got off’ on those kidnapping charges too

                    What a nice guy, sarcastically. We are not desperate for bums on seats into NZ are we??? Any bum, any seat, even prison seems to be our immigration policy APART from highly skilled, well educated people who are too honest and then it sounds like all manner of things will be held against them and they can’t reside in NZ.

                    In general it sounds like too little brain power, too much process that is broken completely and nonsensical that only cheats and liars and third party consultants who are cheats and liars can get success in the immigration department and surrounding areas like MP’s…

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      5 December 2018 at 1:37 pm

                      I’m just waiting for someone to say something along the lines of “I’d rather have him living next door to me than John Key hur hur hur”

              • Pete …
                5 December 2018 at 9:35 am

                For a minute there I thought you were quoting Collette Devlin as the source of the true oil, the real story, the total facts of ALL the ins-and-outa of the Sroubek – Lees-Galloway episode.

                Looked at it, it wasn’t.

              • SaveNZ …
                5 December 2018 at 1:20 pm

                The first sign of trouble that Minister Lees-Galloway should have noticed was that Sroubek was already in PRISON, if you don’t work out something is wrong with granting him residency, then something is very wrong with you!

                At the very least, read the entire report and ask more questions!!! There are victims out there who are going to be impacted, by criminals being allowed free reign in NZ, and it’s about time our government thought of them, not the wannabe crims who want to be Kiwis getting all the ‘compassion’.

                Not only that, general knowledge of how many member states in the EU that Sroubek can return too could have been helpful if the excuse is that he was ‘scared’ to go back to one of the member states. Being a criminal can be dangerous, who knew, now we have to turn NZ into a criminal drugs filled paradise to cope with all these international drug smugglers who want a slice of the highly profitable NZ drugs pie.

            • Adrian 6.1.3.1.2.2
              5 December 2018 at 9:42 am

              Is someone ” taking one for the team “. Sounds like typical Nat modus operandi.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                5 December 2018 at 9:59 am

                Hey its ok, just read between the lines

                • joe90 …
                  5 December 2018 at 12:31 pm

                  ok, just read between the lines

                  Righto then.

                  The woman married a man who appears to have been a career criminal and during the relationship she likely lived pretty fucking high on the hog, courtesy of his rather dubious means.

                  He was busted, she kicked him to touch, and now she’s being portrayed as an innocent in distress.

                  So, JAQing off;

                  Is she a police witness?

                  Did she benefit from the proceeds of crime?

                  Have there been applications for forfeiture of any of her assets?

                  Is the top end of town closing ranks to protect one of their own darlings?

            • alwyn 6.1.3.1.2.3
              5 December 2018 at 11:41 am

              “or the fella from the National Party she is currently rooting?”
              Wow. Can you imagine the fuss there would be if this sort of thing was said about a “friend” of one of the randier Labour male MPs.

              • Red Blooded One …
                5 December 2018 at 11:50 am

                Awh sorry Alwyn, Didn’t see you as a delicate PC snowflake. Is that the correct terms y’all like to use. You are right of course, I should have said something like, the fella from the National Party she is suspected to be having carnal relations with. Happy now sweetie.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                5 December 2018 at 11:52 am

                Is it any wonder why more woman don’t speak up, just reading some of the comments on here makes it quite clear why they don’t

          • OnceWasTim 6.1.3.1.3
            5 December 2018 at 10:59 am

            You do realise that MBIE is full of ex cops in enforcement/compliance don’t you?
            Or perhaps they just called on a mate at Thompson and Clark.

            In both cases they’re anxious to be all butch and show just who is boss.

            • Gabby 6.1.3.1.3.1
              5 December 2018 at 11:56 am

              Is that why MBIE is piss useless?

              • OnceWasTim …
                5 December 2018 at 12:10 pm

                I couldn’t possibly comment but a cast of thousands could tell you that many of the decisions made in that bugger’s muddle would have been better if they’d involved a dart board or a set of dice

            • OnceWasTim 6.1.3.1.3.2
              5 December 2018 at 12:03 pm

              Maybe you should also listen to Dr Dean Knight (Co-Director of the NZ Centre for Public Law, Victoria University of Wellington). Probably Soimon and Mr Pomp Wodehouse should do too.
              It’ll be up soon on RNZ Noin-ta-Noon Podcast.
              He’d have probably made the same decision. And @ PR – you do believe in the rule of law and process doncha? Many of I L-G’s ‘officials’ certainly make that claim (as do Mr Pomp and Soimon)

          • Psych nurse 6.1.3.1.4
            5 December 2018 at 11:11 am

            Can you meet new partners in police safe houses ?.

      • greywarshark 6.1.4
        5 December 2018 at 10:08 am

        “Why would she reach out via a Labour (person) when she is going out with a Nat insider? ”
        Perhaps he/she was one of the Labour traitors who decided to take the opportunity to knife workers in the back in the 1980s.

        The Roman phrase ‘Et tu, Brute?’ is appropriate and also as an appropriate adjective from Old French.

        • Puckish Rogue 6.1.4.1
          5 December 2018 at 10:11 am

          Shes been threatened by gangs, had her house broken into (intimidatory tactics) so its good to see the left rally around the victim

          Oh wait sorry, its the left blaming the victim

          • Red Blooded One 6.1.4.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 10:21 am

            Nope, don’t see anyone here blaming the victim, you do know that Reading between the Lines doesn’t mean, making shit up! or do you simply follow the winsome JC herself when shown the truth continues to double down on lies.

            • Puckish Rogue 6.1.4.1.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 10:26 am

              “Nope, don’t see anyone here blaming the victim, you do know that Reading between the Lines doesn’t mean, making shit up!”

              Might want to send that message to this address then:

              iain.lees-galloway@parliament.govt.nz and CC in w.peters@ministers.govt.nz for good measure

              • Red Blooded One …
                5 December 2018 at 10:30 am

                WHAT, those two gentlemen are HERE! well I’ll be damned. You need to stop reading between the lines and actually read the lines.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  5 December 2018 at 10:40 am

                  Ok I will. What did the PM mean when she said to “read between the lines”, what was she trying to tell us?

                  • Red Blooded One …
                    5 December 2018 at 10:45 am

                    Why are you asking me? Sorry I’m bored with playing with you now, give my love to the MP for Pakuranga. May her knives always remain sharp. Bye bye.

                  • Red Blooded One …
                    5 December 2018 at 11:13 am

                    Actually, before I leave PR. I, of course, mean the MP for Papakura, and I may have you mixed up with James. One of you fellas has the hots for JC. If I have mixed you up my sincere apologies. cheers

          • Anne 6.1.4.1.2
            5 December 2018 at 10:48 am

            Can you link to these claims PR ? I haven’t seen them. If they are true then has she gone to police? Genuine questions.

            • Puckish Rogue 6.1.4.1.2.1
              5 December 2018 at 10:56 am

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/109089925/Karel-Sroubeks-estranged-wife-is-afraid-for-her-life

              ‘National Party justice spokesman Mark Mitchell said she gave him a six-page letter that contained permission to speak on her behalf. He said she had been threatened by gangs and was “genuinely scared”.

              She was taking a massive risk speaking out and said she was forced to write the letter of support so her convicted smuggler husband did not get deported from New Zealand.’

              I’m assuming that because Mitchell brought it up in the house it has more validity than normal (happy to be educated if this is not the case)

              Also I admit to adding the dots together with the house break in = intimidation but it seems the timings a little too convenient to be mere coincidence

              • Anne …
                5 December 2018 at 11:09 am

                … adding the dots together with the house break in = intimidation but it seems the timings a little too convenient to be mere coincidence.

                Having been through such a scenario albeit a long time ago I would say it is likely not a coincidence, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it was arranged by Sroubeks or that he knew anything about it.

            • greywarshark 6.1.4.1.2.2
              5 December 2018 at 10:58 am

              PR
              has managed to spin this item out for the RW with 16 comments. Is that a ‘flame ‘war’ or just ‘trolling’?

            • Muttonbird 6.1.4.1.2.3
              5 December 2018 at 11:08 am

              Mark Mitchell is da police!

          • Gabby 6.1.4.1.3
            5 December 2018 at 11:58 am

            She claims she’s been threatened by gangs puckers. I guess she’ll have passed on names/descriptions to the police.

          • OnceWasTim 6.1.4.1.4
            5 December 2018 at 1:14 pm

            Not sure where to reply to you @ PR because you seems to be in every ‘space’ there’s an opportunity to contest your bull/cowshit, but I have a question.

            Have you ever considered a career in the Public Service?
            MBIE would be right up your alley, and who knows, you could go on to become a real star – maybe even one of those Chief Executioner Orafices sometime in the future.
            You might even get to wear a stab proof vest. And if that doesn’t work out, there could be an opportunity when some sad old gNat retires and is called upon to exercise his or her expertise.
            Maybe an ‘in tune’ down with the goss player as an underling to a Commissioner? The salaries are high and there aren’t too many challenges.
            Maybe you’d have to lerv the coffee in Midland park, and be very careful not to leave a briefcase or a USB stick or laptop. But who knows – you COULD make something of yourself

            • veutoviper 6.1.4.1.4.1
              5 December 2018 at 1:28 pm

              “Have you ever considered a career in the Public Service?”

              ROFL. Love it!

              I assume you have not been following “The Adventures of Puckish Rogue in Changing Careers/Employers” over the last year?

              And where he worked before and what he is going into in the New Year?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                5 December 2018 at 1:39 pm

                The paperwork just came through so all I have to do is sign it and send it back and I start on the 14th

                Fair bit of paperwork included about unions to get through though I have to admit it’d be a hoot if just after I join they go on strike 🙂

                • OnceWasTim …
                  5 December 2018 at 1:54 pm

                  Just in time for the Xmas break. You’ve fallen on good fortune @ PR.
                  And is that a full time employment offer, or a revolving contract – possibly arranged through on of those ‘spert’ employment agencies?

                  Congratulations @ PR. I’m sure you’ll be doing your best to make a name for yourself.

                  Be sure to read the Code of Conduct if they still have such things.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    5 December 2018 at 2:09 pm

                    Life is a funny old thing at times I must say, this is nowhere near what I thought I’d be doing at this stage of my life when I was back in school but…its not bad, its not bad at all

                    • OnceWasTim …
                      5 December 2018 at 2:24 pm

                      I can see you’re a glass-half-full kinda guy eh.
                      We just don’t know how lucky we are.

                      But I noticed you’re reluctant to actually reply to questions and people that challenge you on TS. I mean….nothing to hide, nothing to fear and all that.

                      And I’m sure you had higher ambitions ‘back in the day’ at school.
                      Oh well. Beggars can’t be choosers I ‘spose. Public Service here you go.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      5 December 2018 at 2:36 pm

                      If I replied every single question I get asked you probably have to change the title of Open Mike to The Puckish Rogue Hour (has a nice ring to it) but I like to think I have a more than average answer to question ratio

                • veutoviper …
                  5 December 2018 at 2:38 pm

                  Congratulations!

                  I still haven’t worked out exactly which of several possibilities it is but am guessing that the most relevant of OWT’s remarks at 6.1.4.1.4 is but that it could apply to a number of those possibilities.

                  “You might even get to wear a stab proof vest.” LOL.

                  Is your new group talking about going on strike?

                  PS – Collins’ chances are looking up – Bridges and Brownlee just got thrown out of the House by the Speaker!

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    5 December 2018 at 2:48 pm

                    “You might even get to wear a stab proof vest.”

                    Substitute might with will and you’ll be on the money 🙂

                    “Is your new group talking about going on strike?”

                    I don’t know anything about that but I know they have in the past so seeing whats happening at the moment its not out of the realms of possibility

                    “Collins’ chances are looking up – Bridges and Brownlee just got thrown out of the House by the Speaker!”

                    National do need someone to lay down the law and instill some discipline but as long as the polls stay roughly where they are I’d prefer it if my macushla didn’t take the reigns until about 6 months out from the election

                    If they drop alarmingly then the reign of Queen Collins the Just might have to be brought forward

                    • OnceWasTim …
                      5 December 2018 at 3:21 pm

                      Well there’s an opportunity for an ambitious cadet in the bubble to devise one or two questions that’ll come to fruition at QT.

                      PR…. A public servant in a stab-proof vest.

                      I’m sure @ PR you’ll insist on the same non-partisan, process-driven flow of events you’re so reluctant to give I L-G.

                      Interesting times (going forward). Full steam ahead Chippie

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      6 December 2018 at 10:59 am

                      Why would anyone want to stab Pucky?
                      Has Jude a Brute Squad? Is that the role you’ve won? Brute of Jude?

                • Cinny …
                  6 December 2018 at 10:24 am

                  Really happy for you Pucky, congrats.

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    5 December 2018 at 8:11 am

    We seem to be getting a whiff of pre-revolutionary ferment out of Britain, after parliament found the Tory Cabinet in contempt: “Brexit: Full legal advice to be published after contempt vote”; “The Commons supported a motion, backed by six opposition parties, demanding full disclosure, by 311 votes to 293.”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694

    “Labour demanded the attorney general’s advice should be released ahead of next Tuesday’s key vote on Mrs May’s deal. In response Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom said the government “would respond” on Wednesday. She told MPs she would refer the issue to Commons Privileges Committee to establish the decision’s constitutional repercussions.”

    “The contempt vote move, which is believed to be unprecedented, came as Theresa May prepared to sell her Brexit agreement to MPs at the start of five days of debate on her EU agreement.” So it seems the UK govt has never been found in contempt of parliament before. I suspect the contempt is mutual!

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    5 December 2018 at 8:40 am

    Winston “Peters thinks the “language Nazis” are getting worse – and he’s taking action to stop them. “I’m doing something about it,” he told Sainsbury. “I’m on your show talking to all those common-sense people in your listenership to tell them they should be careful about these Nazis out there who want to control everything we do.”
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/winston-peters-blames-language-nazis-for-bullying-scandals.html

    “One case in particular involved a New Zealand woman in Australia who claimed she had been racially discriminated against by being called ‘Kiwi’.” You can imagine how traumatic that must have been for her. Now that aussies are using kiwi as a term of abuse it is becoming synoymous with bludgers & crims over there.

    From a sociological perspective, language nazis are a small part of the bullying subculture. However it may be worth pointing out that they are trying to stop others using words to cause offense. Their attempt to control others and dictate social conditions is not just due to the mini-hitler syndrome typical of bureaucrats. They’re do-gooders. Just a little warped.

    • greywarshark 8.1
      5 December 2018 at 10:12 am

      On Radionz this morning something releveant to this controvery.
      Too much focus on microaggressions, safe spaces, and trigger warnings could be linked to an increase in anxiety among the young, despite being well intentioned. Moral psychologist Jonathan Haidt talks to Kathryn Ryan about the rise of ‘call out’ culture which he likens to witch hunts. What are the dangers this poses to free speech, mental health, education, and ultimately democracy?

      Jonathan Haidt is a Professor of Ethical Leadership at New York University. His books include ‘The Righteous Mind’ and ‘The Happiness Hypothesis’.

      Audio up later. Worth listening to, as it touches on what goes on in this blog as well as spreading ripples in society.

      We are told we are individuals and have to make our individual way in society (and stop expecting government to feather-bed us is the message behind much of this), and at the same time there is a message of group-think, that we ought to fit to a model person to be accepted for a job, as a gender. So what and how to be. It is stressful to work out which group to conform to, and who to disdain, ie perhaps in Oz you disdain those awful kiwis who get put on Manus Island.

      Joanthan Haidt said I think that USA stats show that since 2005 girl suicides have gone up 70%!!

        • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 11:31 am

          Excellent! Thanks for that. Just listened to the first minute or so, and thought it worth reporting that he & a colleague at his university noticed the shift in 2014.

          Students began asserting that particular ideas are dangerous. Since he’d been a professor since 1995, he was struck by this sudden peculiar shift.

          • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 11:42 am

            Then he says this book is very important: http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/iGen/Jean-M-Twenge/9781501152016

            “Born in the mid-1990s up to the mid-2000s, iGen is the first generation to spend their entire adolescence in the age of the smartphone. With social media and texting replacing other activities, iGen spends less time with their friends in person—perhaps contributing to their unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression, and loneliness.”

            “But technology is not the only thing that makes iGen distinct from every generation before them; they are also different in how they spend their time, how they behave, and in their attitudes toward religion, sexuality, and politics. They socialize in completely new ways, reject once sacred social taboos, and want different things from their lives and careers. More than previous generations, they are obsessed with safety, focused on tolerance, and have no patience for inequality.”

            “With the first members of iGen just graduating from college, we all need to understand them: friends and family need to look out for them; businesses must figure out how to recruit them and sell to them; colleges and universities must know how to educate and guide them. And members of iGen also need to understand themselves as they communicate with their elders and explain their views to their older peers. Because where iGen goes, so goes our nation—and the world.”

            • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 11:55 am

              Stunning rise in depression/anxiety/self-harm/suicide stats! First reported in studies in 2016 in the US, I think he said. Kathryn Ryan had asked him what was the definitive evidence of the generational shift. “It first goes up sharply in 2011 and the rise is much bigger for girls.”

              Those born in ’95 were age 16 in 2011. That’s the year teenage angst seems most intense: onset relationship inadequacies & crises, peer-group bullying, etc. I recall it well, more than half a century later!

              “For boys, the suicide rate increase is 25% [since 2010], for girls, it’s 70%.”

  9. greywarshark 9
    5 December 2018 at 10:29 am

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018674191/parliament-staffers-weren-t-ready-for-govt-change-report

    Politics
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377521/beehive-caught-off-guard-by-change-of-government

    Beehive caught off guard by change of government
    8:37 am today
    Jane Patterson, Political Editor
    @janepatterson jane.patterson@radionz.co.nz

    Public servants responsible for the transition between governments failed to support new ministers as no-one had planned for a full scale, new administration.

    Officials were caught on the hop after last year’s general election, having planned for change no greater than a Cabinet reshuffle – that caused problems like being unable to supply laptops and mobile phones and a lack of experienced staff for incoming ministers.

    State Services Minister Chris Hipkins ordered the review after frustration about the level of staffing and administration support ministers received from Ministerial and Secretarial Support Services (MaSS) upon taking office.

    • Antoine 9.1
      5 December 2018 at 10:55 am

      Interesting

      Sounds like a bit of a balls up if true

      Was there not time between the election ane the inauguration of the incoming Govt to sort all these matters?
      A.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 11:35 am

        I suppose that’s why they’re having a review – to find out where things went wrong and how to fix them.

        • Antoine 9.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 12:09 pm

          I am curious about what will be discovered

          A.

          • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 12:35 pm

            It will be interesting to see. That first sentence seems to say that the people responsible for planning the change over simply didn’t plan for the government to change. That they acted as if the government wouldn’t change which leads to some very serious questions.

            After all, you’d expect that the planning would always be based around the government changing and the only reason why this wouldn’t happen is if they had info telling them that the government wouldn’t change.

  10. greywarshark 10
    5 December 2018 at 11:09 am

    Good people, honour and encourage those achieving good goals. If we had more of this, there would be a completely opposite tone in this blog.

    Radionz
    life and society
    8:37 am today
    Flaxmere celebrates unsung heroes
    From Morning Report, 8:37 am today
    Listen duration 3′ :04″

    An often stigmatised Hawke’s Bay suburb is celebrating it unsung heroes for their successes and contributions to the community. The Flaxmere Heroes calendar for 2019, featuring some of the suburb’s finest, was unveiled at a ceremony in Hastings on Tuesday night. RNZ Hawke’s Bay reporter Anusha Bradley went along.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018674195/flaxmere-celebrates-unsung-heroes

  11. veutoviper 11
    5 December 2018 at 11:09 am

    BREAKING NEWS – ANOTHER TEXT FROM SOMEONE CLAIMING TO BE A NAT MP WITH DETAILS OF YESTERDAY’S CAUCUS MEETING

    RNZ is reporting that they have received a text as above.

    Moved full post to the other post on NATs leaking,

  12. greywarshark 12
    5 December 2018 at 11:32 am

    Ardern getting thumbs up from Forbes. Does this mean that she sayd nice things to soothe business interests, while not offputting the lower classes?
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377533/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-named-as-one-of-most-powerful-women-in-world

    Apparently she made a statement that she wants zero suicides by some date.
    I see this zero thing, the political mind making knowingly fraudulent and simplistic statements that get media headlines and go to people’s hearts by passing their heads. What about saying ‘The present is a disaster, and that immediate measures will be taken to introduce new and better intervention. Our aim is to bring these statistics plunging to near zero. We will do all we can to this end.’

    Now that’s what I would like to hear. And that can apply to anything that a Party with integrity should say. But Forbes might not find that so exciting.

    Newshub reports:
    The annual list, released by Forbes, “celebrates the icons, innovators and instigators who are using their voice to change power structures and create a lasting impact”.
    Jacinda Ardern slots in just one above ‘Australian’s richest citizen’ miner heiress and media player Gina Rinehart. Nice company Jacinda.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/jacinda-ardern-named-in-world-s-most-powerful-women-list.html

  13. Muttonbird 13
    5 December 2018 at 11:35 am

    This is ILG’s answer to a Mitchell supplementary question yesterday.

    Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I only know the matters that are relevant to the decision that I made. Those are that Mr Sroubek’s estranged wife provided a letter of support for him, that media reporting then suggested that there was some question about that support, and that when asked to elaborate on that and participate in the investigation into those matters, she declined.

    Seems pretty clear to me INZ offered Mrs Sroubek the opportunity to change her statement of support because the National Party and the media had been claiming she made the statement under pressure from gang members (or something). She declined to change her statement.

    Pete at Bore NZ has put it up and in that post he floats the idea that there are direct or indirect links between Sroubek and the Prime Minister. That’s similar strategy to the people who tried to get at Clarke Gayford I would have thought. Pete must be very sure of himself.

    https://yournz.org/2018/12/05/sroubeks-estranged-wife-afraid-for-her-life-questioning-of-lees-galloway-ardern-continue/

    • veutoviper 13.1
      5 December 2018 at 12:01 pm

      I don’t have time to do a search, but IIRC a few weeks ago there were attempts to suggest links between Ardern and Sroubek on the basis of a photo or two taken in the last year or so of Ardern with one or two people who have recently formally supported Sroubek staying in NZ.

      I cannot recall the details of the ‘why’s and ‘wheres’ of the photos (an opening of something?) or the names of the people but there have been one or two media or blog mentions of the photos etc over the last few weeks.

      The beige one is getting more and more anti-JA so his post this morning hinting at some link (such as my hazy recollection above) did not surprise me.

      • Muttonbird 13.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 12:05 pm

        Mitchell’s questioning is now focussed on the other people who supported Sroubek’s application (apart from his wife that is). I wonder if they too were under pressure from gangs? Perhaps they were in the martial arts scene and loosely gang affiliated?

  14. greywarshark 14
    5 December 2018 at 11:38 am

    RadioNZ
    World politics
    about 1 hour ago (I’m looking at this on Wed 5 Dec 2018)
    Theresa May suffers three Brexit defeats in Commons

    UK Prime Minister Theresa May has suffered three Brexit defeats in the Commons as she set out to sell her EU deal to sceptical MPs.

    Ministers will be forced to publish the government’s full legal advice on the deal after MPs found them in contempt of Parliament for issuing a summary.

    And MPs backed a motion giving the Commons a direct say in what happens if her deal is rejected next Tuesday.

    • Dennis Frank 14.1
      5 December 2018 at 12:16 pm

      “Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage has quit the party in protest at its direction”.
      “The privileges committee will now decide which ministers should be held accountable and what sanction to apply, with options ranging from a reprimand to the more unlikely scenario of a minister being suspended from the Commons.”

      “Lib Dem leader Sir Vince Cable said the result left the government “on the ropes”, adding: “Theresa May’s majority has evaporated, and the credibility of her deal is evaporating with it.”” Too bad he missed that opportunity to call for the Cabinet to be imprisoned in the Tower of London. Also puzzling that conservative MPs are failing to adhere to the hallowed tradition.

      “Tuesday’s vote, in which 26 Tory MPs rebelled, could potentially tilt the balance of power between government and Parliament if, as expected, MPs push for a “Plan B” alternative to Mrs May’s deal and also seek to prevent any chance of a no-deal exit.” I wonder if it will be necessary to bring back the Roundheads?

      • greywarshark 14.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 1:47 pm

        Has the Queen got any frontroom or backroom ability to step in when the Commons and the Lords manage to make a complete hash of it and put the country at risk of looming destabilisation?

        • McFlock 14.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 1:49 pm

          lol just to throw a constitutional crisis on top of an economic one…

          • greywarshark 14.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 1:55 pm

            It’s already becoming a constitutional crisis isn’t it?

            • McFlock 14.1.1.1.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 2:06 pm

              Not of the level of 1640.

              Even if the monarch technically had the power, actually using it would be a fast track to a republic.

              Basically, the Queen can have private chats with the PM where nothing is made public, and that’s about it. Any actual verbal public policy interference would be more serious than Brexit.

  15. alwyn 15
    5 December 2018 at 12:33 pm

    People in New Zealand are obviously far to mild in their protests about the petrol tax increases and the way the money is filtered off into stupid expenditure by the current Government who have never seen a tax they didn’t love.
    Perhaps following the French example is the only way to curb our “leaders”?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46437904
    I really don’t think I would be happy to protest in France when the Mobile Gendarmerie were on the streets though.

  16. SaveNZ 16
    5 December 2018 at 12:42 pm

    ok, so it all comes out, we are bankrupting and polluting our cities, spending hours in commuting times with ridiculous congestion, increased pollution across the board in particular in our waterways and air pollution, reducing democracy with poorly thought out changes that our councils can’t even work what to approve anymore (so approve anything) and creating housing that those on local wages can’t afford while, increasing charges like petrol charges for people who can’t afford to live closer in. So we now can see without a doubt that it was never to provide affording housing for residents within the cities and close to them, but for investment opportunities for overseas nationals and to keep the construction Ponzi going…

    Auckland ratepayers please open your pockets as well for the airport, cruise ships, America’s cup marina, convention centre, stadiums and all the other tax payer funded infrastructure for all these new luxury apartments and tourists, while bleeding residents dry…

    NZ door still open to foreign buyers: The Pacifica apartments granted foreign buyer exemption

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12170418&ref=rss

  17. Draco T Bastard 17
    5 December 2018 at 12:54 pm

    I’ve been wondering why, lately, we’ve been inundated with headlines like this:

    Pregnant woman one of two killed in crash after police abandoned pursuit in Christchurch

    They’ve gone to a great deal of effort to say that it wasn’t the polices fault and, I must admit, that the police have been getting a lot of flack for police pursuits that ended in death.

    But there’s another implication or two:

    1. That if the police maintained pursuit then perhaps the death could have been prevented.
    2. That the death would have happened with or without police pursuit.

    Is someone pushing for more Law ‘n’ Order and hardline police policies?

  18. joe90 18
    5 December 2018 at 1:33 pm

    This is gonna be fun.

    BREAKING: here are the actual subpoenas in the #emoluments case–lots of them! Fasten your seatbelts folks–the evidence is going to prove one of the most systematic constitutional ethics violations in US history: https://t.co/eBdPVhhbur and https://t.co/YyZ6y7Ctti #emoluments— Norm Eisen (@NormEisen) December 4, 2018

    All of Your state and federal income tax returns, including all schedules, attachments, and other forms or supporting documentation completed or submitted with the tax returns.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dtm8UDsUwAAJZTR.jpg

  19. Dv 19
    5 December 2018 at 1:40 pm

    I have a suggestion re Alcohol and hospital costs from crashes etc
    Hospitals should bill the liquor industry for the cost of treatment

    • SaveNZ 19.1
      5 December 2018 at 1:52 pm

      Also think that companies/governments making weapons that kill civilians used in wars, should be expected to pay the costs for civilian migration and relocation and damages to them or their families for their deaths and injuries.

      Funny enough, I think if they stop bombing the crap out of many places, the people that live there would not be forced to relocate and if weapons manufacturers were held responsible for their misuse then we would have a lot less pointless wars and more appropriate ways of resolving disputes between nations!

  20. Chris T 20
    5 December 2018 at 2:25 pm

    Bridges just got kicked out of the house

    Can’t really see what warranted it to be fair

    Unless it is Labour getting triggered over a question

    • Muttonbird 20.1
      5 December 2018 at 2:32 pm

      He was warned about being disruptive yesterday. He must be under immense pressure.

      • Pete 20.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 3:01 pm

        He made some comments about the Speaker.

        First time round he was warned he would get the boot.

        • mickysavage 20.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 4:05 pm

          Here you go.

          “Hon Simon Bridges: Has she entirely washed her hands of anything to do with the Sroubek fiasco, and is she ducking and diving to get out of its way? [Speaker stands] Oh, here comes the protection.

          SPEAKER: No—the Leader of the Opposition will leave the House.

          Hon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber.

          Hon Gerry Brownlee: Struck a raw nerve.

          SPEAKER: He will be followed by the shadow Leader of the House.

          Hon Gerry Brownlee withdrew from the Chamber.”

          Spoke when Mallard was on his feet and abused him. Of course he had to go. And Brownlee for the same offence.

          • McFlock 20.1.1.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 4:21 pm

            The weird thing is that Bridges apparently thought Ardern needed “protection” from his scented shoe-lace flogging.

            Maybe their plan B is if their weak attacks are easily deflected, they get their arses kicked out so it looks like they were actually doing so well mallard had to intercede?

          • veutoviper 20.1.1.1.2
            5 December 2018 at 4:43 pm

            Snap – was just about to post the same extract.

            Here is the link to the draft Hansard for Qtime if anyone wants to read more.

            https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20181205_20181205_08

            IMO, it was about time those two got sent out. Bridges continually snipes from the side when Ministers are replying to questions, including when he himself has asked the question of the PM or DPM. He is forever being warned by the Speaker and it was inevitable that sooner or later he would be thrown out. Brownlee is also very transparent in his constant challenging of Mallard’s decisions as Speaker.

            The whole MO of the National Caucus is to disrupt etc rather than show respect for the rules and procedures of the House. I have no doubt that they wanted this type of situation to arise sooner or later, and probably before the House rises for the Summer Recess (originally planned for next Thursday, 13 December but now extended out to Wednesday, 19 December.)

            It is in effect nothing more than a publicity stunt.

            ADDENDUM – perhaps a PR stunt for this next week? ROFL

            https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features/come-along-to-harmony-in-the-house/

    • Gabby 20.2
      5 December 2018 at 5:20 pm

      He had to go and get cleaned up after shitting himself christy.

  21. Robert Guyton 21
    5 December 2018 at 2:33 pm

    Gerry went too. Lack of discipline.

  22. Robert Guyton 22
    5 December 2018 at 2:34 pm

    “Tay” Ko “fotta”?
    Really, Judith?

  23. Robert Guyton 23
    5 December 2018 at 2:37 pm

    Are those petulant Nat’s walking out of the House as soon as their own question is asked?

    • Muttonbird 23.1
      5 December 2018 at 2:44 pm

      Out of the 56 National MPs, there are now fewer than 10 left in the House.

      I might suggest the leaker is one of those 10…

    • Red Blooded One 23.2
      5 December 2018 at 2:45 pm

      Yep, I guess we can expect a press conference from Gerry wailing about how unfair the Speaker is and how they should be allowed to act like petulant little babies in the house.

      • Pete 23.2.1
        5 December 2018 at 2:59 pm

        David Carter gets up and tries to run defence because poor little Simon is being picked on.

        Bridges’ performance today needs defending, it was so pathetic.

        • Kat 23.2.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 3:05 pm

          National are running attack lines at the speaker, painting Mallard as the bogey man. Classic deflection tactics, only they will backfire immensely, especially on Simon Bridges.

        • Robert Guyton 23.2.1.2
          5 December 2018 at 3:06 pm

          Bridges and Brownlee attacked the impartiality of the Speaker. Stupid! They got their marching orders and their puppets couldn’t help but lock-step their way out as well.

          • Puckish Rogue 23.2.1.2.1
            5 December 2018 at 3:25 pm

            Heres the link to the question, if anyones interested:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFjCqvMawCA

            • alwyn 23.2.1.2.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 4:03 pm

              What on earth were they supposed to have done?
              There wasn’t enough time between the last word from Bridges and Mallard dumping on them to have said anything else that might have upset him.
              Surely Trev hasn’t got so far up himself that saying someone was “ducking for cover” is supposed to be a slur on the Speaker named Mallard?
              Were they getting a little bit close too what Ardern’s real knowledge is?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                5 December 2018 at 4:05 pm

                I’m thinking theres more to come of this, Nationals doing a good job of drip feeding the information it has

                • Muttonbird …
                  5 December 2018 at 4:17 pm

                  Nationals doing a good job of drip feeding the information it has purchased.

                  Fixed.

                • shadrach …
                  5 December 2018 at 4:28 pm

                  They have an ‘end game’ which is targeted at the PM’s ‘alleged’ involvement in the original decision. National have been playing a long game with this, including winding up attacks on the PM’s ‘frequent’ absences from the house, much as they did with Curran.

                  I have no idea whether the rumours about the PM’s connections with Sroubek are correct or not, but if they are, the PM is in trouble.

                • gsays …
                  5 December 2018 at 8:07 pm

                  drip feeding is the obvious terminology when dealing with a leak…

              • mickysavage …
                5 December 2018 at 4:07 pm

                They both said things the mike did not pick up on. The mike switches off when the Speaker rises. They are meant to then be silent but had a go at Trevor instead.

                Easy decision.

              • Robert Guyton …
                5 December 2018 at 4:35 pm

                Demeaned the Office of the Speaker – bawling, “it’s unfair (mummy!)”

              • mac1 …
                5 December 2018 at 4:42 pm

                Alwyn, Bennett and former Speaker Carter both agreed that the Speaker was right. Carter sought an end to the Speaker’s practice of deducting supplementaries for behaviour. The Speaker said that he had already decided that deliberate disrespect to the Speaker would be treated as it had been under previous Speakers.

                So, they were given their marching orders.

                Was it orchestrated, as Shane Jones alleged, in order to deflect attention away from leaks and bullying, and IMO also poor questioning techniques?

                • shadrach …
                  5 December 2018 at 5:08 pm

                  “Bennett and former Speaker Carter both agreed that the Speaker was right.”

                  Can you confirm when that occurred? I’m interested in the way the opposition are approaching this, and I’d be curious to see the language around what Bennett and Carter said.

                  • alwyn …
                    5 December 2018 at 5:25 pm

                    I find it very hard to see any possible way you can get such an opinion from what has been reported on the affair.

                    From Stuff we get, about Carter
                    “National MP and former speaker, David Carter called a “constructive” point of order.
                    The events caused him to reflect on the frustration that was building among the Opposition, he said.
                    He asked Mallard to look carefully at how questions, asked this week, were being framed and the answers given.
                    If the answers were used to attack the Opposition or the leader, tensions would rise to the extent where frustration would be expressed, he said.
                    “Your action this week has not been helpful to the order of the House … I ask you to reconsider your policy of deducting questions that is unfair on the Opposition … The Opposition’s job is to hold the Government to account. Those supplementary questions are valuable …”.
                    If that is saying that Mallard was “right” I think you are on the wrong side of the Looking Glass.

                    I cannot find anything reported about Bennett

                    • alwyn …
                      5 December 2018 at 5:34 pm

                      Actually I have now read Bennett’s speech in the General Debate.
                      That was certainly not agreeing with Mallard that his decision was “right”. She did agree that he was allowed to make it but that it was an extraordinary action.
                      She also said that she thought the action that got them expelled was “a very benign comment”
                      Anything more pointed would have got her kicked out as well.
                      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20181205_054225000/bennett-paula

                    • mac1 …
                      5 December 2018 at 5:41 pm

                      Alwyn, I didn’t get my info from a report.

                      I watched Carter make his point of order.

                      He agreed with the Speaker on his calls regarding the leader of the opposition and the shadow leader of the House, but as you say sought a change to Mallard’s practice.

                    • shadrach …
                      5 December 2018 at 6:22 pm

                      “He agreed with the Speaker on his calls regarding the leader of the opposition and the shadow leader of the House, but as you say sought a change to Mallard’s practice.”
                      No, he didn’t. He agreed generally with the principle of not challenging the impartiality of the speaker. He made no specific comment about the particular decision the Speaker made today.

                  • mac1 …
                    5 December 2018 at 5:26 pm

                    Carter raised a point of order at the end of question time today, and Bennett spoke during the debate on miscellaneous business after question time.

                    • alwyn …
                      5 December 2018 at 5:36 pm

                      ‘snap’.
                      I just found them.
                      You would be very hard pressed to say that they agreed with what Mallard had done.
                      Agreed with him having the power but certainly not that is was the “right” thing to have done.

                    • mac1 …
                      5 December 2018 at 5:55 pm

                      Of course she thought Mallard’s judgment wrong, “a benign comment” though he had already been warned. She has fallen foul of him before, and justifiably so ejected then. She acknowledged his power and that remarks had been made.

                      I was originally responding to Alwyn commenting
                      above who said that he didn’t think there was enough time for comments to have been made at all.

                      My point was that remarks had been made, and Carter and Bennett acknowledged that was right (that the Speaker had reacted to comments made to him as Speaker as he was speaking at the time).

                      Did Bennett really believe that saying that the Speaker was protecting a government MP was ‘benign’? Or is libelling another’s probity and fair-handedness a benign action in her caucus?

                      Their caucus is toxic. That behaviour was further exhibited today and they were justifiably mocked during the following miscellaneous debate.

                      I have to say that I now eschew popcorn when watching Parliament but the sound of the popping of mental corks was analogous to making popcorn.

                    • shadrach …
                      5 December 2018 at 6:23 pm

                      Carter’s point of order referenced the general principle of speaker impartiality. He made no mention of today’s decision at all.

                      It is obvious the speaker is protecting certain government MP’s, and it has been obvious for some time. That he is doing it for the PM is actually quite a serious matter. I’m not surprised the Speaker tossed Bridges, but it doesn’t get away from the reality that Mallard is making a total hash of the job.

                    • shadrach …
                      5 December 2018 at 6:29 pm

                      “Parliament’s Speaker, Trevor Mallard, has an inbuilt bias against National Party leader Simon Bridges and a soft spot for Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

                      That much has been clear since Mallard took the chair just over a year ago. Bridges gets under his skin.

                      But what is also clear is that Bridges crossed a line in the House today and cannot credibly object to having been thrown out by Mallard.”

                      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12171921

                      A ‘soft spot’! A beautiful understatement.

                    • shadrach …
                      5 December 2018 at 6:32 pm

                      “Agreed with him having the power but certainly not that is was the “right” thing to have done.”

                      Hi Alwyn

                      I can’t agree. MP’s know they can’t impugn the Speaker’s impartiality. I can’t stand Mallard’s OTT oversight of QT, but the position of Speaker does need to be respected, if not the person holding the position.

                • Muttonbird …
                  5 December 2018 at 5:45 pm

                  Agree. This is dead cat on the table stuff. They are so desperate to distract from their toxic internal culture they’re willing to disrupt parliament itself.

      • Chris T 23.2.2
        5 December 2018 at 3:38 pm

        He would have a point after that display

  24. Robert Guyton 24
    5 December 2018 at 3:07 pm

    I think Paula’s going to spontaneously combust.

    • Anne 24.1
      5 December 2018 at 3:14 pm

      Yep. I got that impression too. I watched her stomach anxiously as it pulsated in tune to her heated bellows.

  25. Pete 25
    5 December 2018 at 3:12 pm

    Bennett proving she’s an idiot.

    Not getting the answers she wants equals questions not being answered. For someone who’s served an apprenticeship with weasels it’s strange she wouldn’t recognise a weasel if it bit her on the arse. And now she sees weasels in everything.

    And she talks about being ‘straight’ with people. Well dear go into your caucus, you’re apparently one of the senior people there, eyeball them all, and ask them straight “Who is the leaker?”

    • mary_a 25.1
      5 December 2018 at 3:42 pm

      @ Pete (25) … wouldn’t take much for Paula to find the leaker. Standing in front of a mirror might solve the problem.

  26. Red Blooded One 26
    5 December 2018 at 3:25 pm

    If Simon thought he’d get sympathy on his Twitter post he was sorely disappointed.

    • indiana 26.1
      5 December 2018 at 3:58 pm

      Do you think sympathy was what he was after?

      • mac1 26.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 4:47 pm

        Deflection away from his own parlous standing is what he sought.

        Blame, diversion, denial by a dummy spitting the dummy, a shill not even worth ten cents, a lemon supported by lemmings.

      • Gabby 26.1.2
        5 December 2018 at 5:13 pm

        Well Slick’s such a big sooky bubby he was prolly after a hug and a sweetie indinana.

        • indiana 26.1.2.1
          5 December 2018 at 5:31 pm

          …or probably he’s added some more points to National in the next poll if most NZers think that Mallard was over zealous and that JA can’t fight her own battles.

          • Anne 26.1.2.1.1
            5 December 2018 at 5:50 pm

            JA can’t fight her own battles.

            As everyone knows, JA can fight her own battles.

            I think what made them dump on her for supposedly refusing to answer is that she kept responding with much the same answer… it is not appropriate for me to comment on operational matters.

            Its my view they were deliberately asking questions that fall into this category knowing she was not at liberty to answer them.

            Its up the Jacinda Ardern to put the record straight. If she doesn’t then some people will assume Bridges is telling the truth.

            • mac1 26.1.2.1.1.1
              5 December 2018 at 5:57 pm

              They were deliberate. The Speaker advised them that such questions were out of order and even advised Mitchell how to ask a question that was in order.

              • Muttonbird …
                5 December 2018 at 9:19 pm

                The question from Simon preceding the ejection was just a joke. It wasn’t Parliamentary, it was something you’d read on Kiwiblog. That’s how juvenile Bridges is.

                “Hon Simon Bridges: Has she entirely washed her hands of anything to do with the Sroubek fiasco, and is she ducking and diving to get out of its way?”

      • Draco T Bastard 26.1.3
        6 December 2018 at 10:29 am

        Yes.

        That and a poor excuse for an attack on the government.

  27. Chris T 27
    5 December 2018 at 6:05 pm

    I think that Mallard has proved to be one of the most biased speakers we have ever had.

    Mind you with his history of anger issues, this is hardly surprising

    • Robert Guyton 27.1
      5 December 2018 at 6:38 pm

      Your opinion is seriously distorted, Chris T, but it’s so lightweight that it doesn’t matter 🙂

      • Chris T 27.1.1
        5 December 2018 at 6:51 pm

        While you might not like my opinion, it has the same value as every other persons.

        FWIW. The best speaker in my memory span was a Labour dude

        • Robert Guyton 27.1.1.1
          5 December 2018 at 7:49 pm

          It may be one man, one opinion, democratically, Chris T, but not the same relevance or quality. For example, your views on fungal associations with trees might not be of the same value as that of a mycologist – do ya reckon??

    • Draco T Bastard 27.2
      6 December 2018 at 10:29 am

      The most biased speaker we ever had was the one that the Nats had – what was his name again?

  28. DJ Ward 28
    5 December 2018 at 7:29 pm

    I have to say that whoever is writing Simons questions has the political common sense of a Darwin Award winner.

    How about. Just for fun.

    Is the prime minister concerned at the price of Lawnmowers?

    Will her Climate Change is our Nuclear Free comment result in any restrictions on the supply of Lawnmowers?

    How many Lawnmowers does she think is enough Lawnmowers for stay at home dads and does she intend to restrict the supply and purchasing of Lawnmowers?

    Do we import Lawnmowers from the EU and does she know anybody in that trade?

  29. eco maori 29
    6 December 2018 at 8:22 am

    Kia ora The Am Show The new employments laws are a good start to employment law reforms the employers can get away with a lot of bad ——.
    Wealthy schools poaching players is not on they will win all the competitions unfairly
    what they are teaching our tamariki is its ok to cheat when one is wealthy really .Eco knows what side the paraoa is buttered on. Solution cap import players to school teams.
    That wahine who gave birth of a baby with a donated womb shows how fast the health sector is advancing the next 20 years is going to be very exciting on that front .
    Eco Thanks Waiheke Islanders for championing going electric cars only on the Island it is a good move that will boast the trend of saving our grandchildren’s environment Ka pai .Sea level rise is a serious problem we are building to many houses in low lying areas building in NZ is expensive considering in Europe they have to have walls a foot wide full of 2 to 3 layers of insulation and they build them cheaper there.
    Ka kite ano

  30. eco maori 30
    6 December 2018 at 11:34 am

    The Senate president, Scott Ryan, warned it would undermine parliamentarians’ ability to keep their work secret from police, because extending covert surveillance powers to police agencies would prevent parliamentarians having an opportunity to claim parliamentary privilege over material seized under warrant. Its been proven many times there some sandflys that cannot be trusted not to use this massive power for there own monetary gains I.E Being payed by the carbon barons to stuff someone who is making changes for the good of all Environmental advocate groups been spied on. All Australians will lose there RIGHTS TO PRIVACY
    The Communications Alliance argued it could harm Australians $3.2bn information technology export sector, Eco Maori say it will cause there tec sector crash
    The Communications Alliance chief executive, John Stanton, said the definition was “too narrow” and would still allow a weakness to be built – for example – in all devices in Victoria, or all users who select a push notification to install an upgrade in a particular language.
    The Greens digital rights spokesman, Jordon Steele-John, said the bill “will have the unintended consequence of diminishing the online safety, security and privacy of every single Australian”.
    “Furthermore, any individual – whether that be a politician or a journalist – who uses encrypted messaging services to ensure the privacy of their sources, or the privilege of their policy discussions, should feel threatened by this bill’s potential unintended consequences.” P.S They are signing YOUR rights away like shonky did in Aotearoa this is being pushed by trump and his control go oil party. Ka kite ano. Like I said the word terrorist is used as a tool to make you feel insecure so they can change laws to have more control on the 99.9 % when they control you well there is less of a threat to the 99.9 % hold on POWER.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/05/coalitions-deal-with-labor-on-cracking-encrypted-messages-what-it-means-for-you

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

  31. eco maori 31
    6 December 2018 at 11:52 am

    P.S change the 99.9 % on the above post to 000.1 % the wealthy rulers

  32. eco maori 32
    6 December 2018 at 12:31 pm

    shonky became a mp because he want to make it easier for his rich crooked M8 to launder there trillions through shonky did not become a mp to serve the majority he was in Parliament to serve his bank ballance and his super wealthy M8 video below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtvaNIQN0DY

  33. eco maori 33
    6 December 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Kai ora Newshub I agree with Brian he we need to come up with solution to lift all Maori out of jails and provery.
    MPI needs to put more effort into protecting OUR Fisheries minister if one can cheat without being prosecuted well it just snowballs into a collapsed fisheries no fish for the grandchildren.
    The Farmers are loving this weather they are making hay Melisa = a small feed bill more proft’s .
    That young boy was cute meeting our Queen shy as lol.
    Tiwai point smelter opening the forth line is good I Jacinda the purest and hydro renewable energy aluminum made in the world cars and batteries are being made from aluminum now they also have a new way to make aluminum that produces less carbon it will take a few years to get from lab to production lines.
    Ka kite ano

  34. eco maori 34
    6 December 2018 at 7:24 pm

    Kai ora James & Mulls from the Crowd Goes Wild
    Good luck on your new journey Shawn Johnston you will be cutting them up on the field soon.
    Good call Wairangi on the boxing.
    Anna Marcuse has a cool ebike good on you for your vegan journey and your words about Kiwi farming.
    The soccer the dog blocking that goal lol .I made a choice not to play to much video games guys my time is to valuable to me .Ka kite ano

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