Open Mike 05/01/2015

130 comments on “Open Mike 05/01/2015 ”

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1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

   5 January 2015 at 7:54 am

   It turns out that the higher your mortgage debt, the less likely you are to start a business.

   http://trueeconomics.blogspot.co.nz/2015/01/412015-homeownership-house-prices-and.html
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     5 January 2015 at 9:42 am

     That’s actually one of the reasons why I think that all housing should be state housing. It gets rid of mortgages entirely while also guaranteeing people a place to live. Under such conditions people are more likely to be entrepreneurial.
     • Lanthanide 1.1.1

       5 January 2015 at 9:57 am

       And since the state has no interest in maximising life styles for some, everyone ends up living in the same beige boxes with 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. No thanks.
       • TheContrarian 1.1.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 10:35 am

         I look forward to when all clothing is made by the state too. We can all wear our beige blazers in our beige boxes.
         • Once wasTim 1.1.1.1.1

           5 January 2015 at 3:54 pm

           couldn’t be any worse than a Ryall stripe/check/polka dot mix in fashion hues that are 5 years out of date with the feshun movas en sheikas en entra prin-oohers, but then your proposition is ridiculous anyway and designed to confuse. Mrs Ryall – poor bitch! I bet she’d be praying for a communist alternative (just as soon as she runs out of gingham table cloths)
           By the way, did I tell you how utterly gorgeous you look and how it seems everyone in here holds you in awe as a sage and the voice of reason?
           Give us peasants a tip will ya? How on Earth do you do it?
           • TheContrarian 1.1.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2015 at 5:52 pm

             Huh? All I got was something about Ryall dress sense, reference to his wife as a ‘bitch’ then some pointless abusive comment.

             Care to expand?
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2

         5 January 2015 at 10:52 am

         One of the things I’ve noticed over the years is the ever increasing amount of beige boxes to live in. Take the street I live in – every single house is almost identical to each other and all of them built by private enterprise. Why? Because it’s cheaper and thus they can make a higher profit.

         Basically, you’re talking out your arse again.
         • Lanthanide 1.1.1.2.1

           5 January 2015 at 12:05 pm

           Basically, you’re cherry-picking examples and pretending they’re somehow evidence to support your weird idea.
           • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2.1.1

             5 January 2015 at 12:53 pm

             No, I’m not. Most major housing developments in NZ over the last 40 years or so have been done with houses that have a similar design resulting in entire suburbs with houses that look the same. There are very few individually designed houses made today.

             You’re the one who considers this to be a problem and yet you refuse to believe that it exists simply because you don’t want to believe that private ownership also results in the beige boxes that you apparently despise.

             There’s a reason for the term McMansions and it has nothing to do with government ownership.
             • Lindsey …

               5 January 2015 at 1:53 pm

               Yes, look at British Victorian and Edwardian housing. Only 2 house plans and all in rows as that was the most economic to build. All done by private enterprise.
             • Lanthanide …

               5 January 2015 at 5:29 pm

               Here’s what you said, Draco:

               “why I think that *all* housing should be state housing”

               I’ve added emphasis on the key word in your statement.

               Similarly, just because houses made by developers have a set number of house plans, that again does mean the current situation we have would be the same as if every single house were state-owned, which is what you’re advocating.

               For example, you can buy off-the-plans houses of 320m^2 if you have the money to do it. If all houses were state-owned, do you think the state would be building *any* houses that large? I doubt it, which is what my entire comment is about.

               Furthermore, even if the exterior is fairly similar between the houses built by private developers, the owners still have the option to change the interior fit-out to a higher standard if they want it. Would you get that option if all houses were state-owned? Probably not.

               Similarly if you wanted (for whatever reason) a 3-bedroom 4-bathroom house, under a situation where all housing is state-owned and provided by the government, do you think it is likely you would get your house? Again, I think not.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 5 January 2015 at 8:16 pm

                 For example, you can buy off-the-plans houses of 320m^2 if you have the money to do it. If all houses were state-owned, do you think the state would be building *any* houses that large? I doubt it, which is what my entire comment is about.

                 I seriously question the sanity of people who think they need a 320m^2 house. But, if you really thought you did need such, you can always move to the US where such insanity is the norm.

                 Furthermore, even if the exterior is fairly similar between the houses built by private developers, the owners still have the option to change the interior fit-out to a higher standard if they want it. Would you get that option if all houses were state-owned?

                 You’d have a choice in interior fit out of course. It’d all be of the highest quality – just not name brand BS that’s usually made in some unknown factory/sweatshop in Asia.
         • Herodotus 1.1.1.2.2

           5 January 2015 at 5:27 pm

           Your reasoning for why is a bit misplaced, it is not primarily profit based, but dictated by the section size and town planning rules that apply :site coverage that maximises the area of land of a footprint of the dwelling & driveway,, height to boundary constraints, where stormwater drains are located as they are extremely expensive to bridge over, and fall of the section to name a few. To cater for a greater variety & to allow dwellings to be built at a lower cost increase section sizes. This will allow for single level dwellings that are dramatically more financially effective to build than multi level dwellings, but then there is the issue of lower pop. densities and the costs associated with that.
           So as you have said that these are built by private enterprises they are bound by what has been deemed allowable by local authority and even central govt.
           Many kiwis are experts with residential properties but possess minimum knowledge and understanding in this area. 🙂 yet this lack of understanding still results in the best returns available in NZ, go figure !!
           • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2.2.1

             5 January 2015 at 8:03 pm

             it is not primarily profit based,

             Everything that the private sector does is primarily profit based. In this case getting lots of different designs is really expensive and so they don’t. They, seemingly, get one design and change it slightly.

             So as you have said that these are built by private enterprises they are bound by what has been deemed allowable by local authority and even central govt.

             The town planning rules allow a near infinite variety of design within those constraints.

             To cater for a greater variety & to allow dwellings to be built at a lower cost increase section sizes.

             Land is the most scarce resource that we have and you think making the sections bigger will make houses cheaper?
             • Herodotus …

               5 January 2015 at 9:20 pm

               Most developments I am familiar within Auckland delivery product that is far superior than what the min. council requirements permit ( there are many examples of what compliance of council rules result in e.g. stancombe road, flat bush school road
               http://www.realestate.co.nz/2436499
               You made the statement of rules allow a near infinite variety, really, examples would be appreciated to allow me to see where my experience & knowledge is lacking. Town planning rules are so prescriptive that they hinder almost all innovation. Look at what there is just to proceed with a plan change !!!
               http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/planspoliciesprojects/CouncilProjects/Documents/flatbushpc20proposed.pdf
               Buy increasing densities in zoning all that does is dramatically increase the value of raw land, and as sections reduce in size then by default there is then only allowed by site coverage rules multi level homes that on a per m2 rate are more expensive to build than a house of the same area on a single level. So according to this making sections larger would make housing less unaffordable.
               http://www.tradebox.co.nz/pb_resource.asp?resourceid=40
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 6 January 2015 at 12:45 pm

                 Most developments I am familiar within Auckland delivery product that is far superior than what the min. council requirements permit

                 And yet my family in the building industry has difficulty reminding the developers that they have to build to code because the developers are continually cutting costs. The result is often that the work has to be redone because the developers wouldn’t listen and told them to build how they wanted it done and then it failed code compliance.

                 Town planning rules are so prescriptive that they hinder almost all innovation.

                 How is it that the rules determine the shape and design of the building? They don’t. Just so long as the structure meets the building code they can be built. You can get a round house built – you just have to get it designed. The developers aren’t paying for the extra designs.

                 Buy increasing densities in zoning all that does is dramatically increase the value of raw land

                 I think you’ll find that running out of land does that as well. Throw in the higher costs of travel, sewage and provision of other services that larger sections entail and you’re working on a false economy.
         • Once wasTim 1.1.1.2.3

           5 January 2015 at 5:56 pm

           Yep @ Draco. Here in Mt Vic 25 years ago, I painted my house in ‘Conservative Grey’ with White framing, and a lovely ‘Bottle/English Racing Green’ for the windows and trim. Charcoal Roof. Within 5 years, as others were anxious to begin gentifying the area (basically house owners being the eqivalent of ‘wolves of Wall Street’), I counted no fewer than 11 houses who’d copied my utterly gorgeous colour scheme). I’d expected originality, and if not that – then possibly the grey and pink hues in vogue – with perhaps as much stainless steel as they could get away with – without being called Jaffas at the time.
           …… and they profess ‘individualism’ and a loathing of nanny state, yet their entire being is unoriginal, plagiaristic, ideological (and they’re usually just a wee bit fick).
           So I thought I could be forgiven when I passed the house on to my offspring, bought another in Kapiti and painted it in the campest purple pastels you could imagine – in the hope I’d inspire the neighbouring Natzis to think a bit, and do something a little artistic and original. Guess what!
           (I shudda realised!, they’re represented by good ole boi Nafe Goi after all – he that doesn’t inhale and isn’t a racist git)
           • greywarshark 1.1.1.2.3.1

             6 January 2015 at 1:22 pm

             @ Once was Tim
             People copying your originality because they haven’t any. I think that is a compliment to you. I confess i have taken photos of housing colours I like the look of. Sorry that the NACTs only like purple prose.

             (What a great example of a brew of ideas in Open Mike on a subject of interest, housing. Quite inspiring after seeing pu’s and TAs diatribes for some time.)
       • Murray Rawshark 1.1.1.3

         5 January 2015 at 3:19 pm

         I’ve seen plenty of private developments that are just rows of identical boxes. There is no law of nature saying that state housing should be the same. As to the interests of the state – it does seem to want to maximise the lifestyles of quite a few people, including the executives of state enterprises. Bill English has also done pretty well from the state as far as housing goes. The tax cuts for the rich and the reticence in chasing up tax avoidance also act to maximise the lifestyles of some.
2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

   5 January 2015 at 7:55 am

   G20 Rules mean bail-ins a reality.
   – What will this mean for the payment system if bail ins are instigated? People won’t want to put money in a bank again once they realise it can be taken to pay off debts the bank accumulated.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8sd6gFt-Lc
   • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

     5 January 2015 at 8:23 am

     It’s already happened (ie: the law is on the statute books) here, iirc. Has there been a subsequent slow-down in bank deposits?

     People won’t get upset about it until their money is taken.
     • vto 2.1.1

       5 January 2015 at 8:35 am

       100% correct.

       If ever there was evidence needed that most of the public are mushrooms, being kept in the dark and fed bullshit, then this reality is it.

       Our money in the bank can be taken off us to pay the bank – by government decree. Most of the public wouldn’t even believe you if you tried telling them that.

       Another law to thank John Key for …. makes laws to support and pay foreign-owned banks. Unbelievable. John Key’s legacy.
       • Rosie 2.1.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 8:55 am

         Ah yes. They can can’t they? Like feudal over lords, the banks can raid our money, that we entrust to them for safe keeping, should they find themselves in a sticky situation.

         Now, I recall I was in a fog of personal crisis at the time this law passed, and despite that was still horrified that a government of NZ would do that to it’s people, and horrified at the lack of response, but I don’t recall the details, the name of the Act, and the date it was passed.

         Worst case scenario, the scene wouldn’t be dissimilar to the images we saw a couple of years ago, of the Greeks lining up at the ATM’s to withdraw their money before the banks stole it to cover their arses.
       • phillip ure 2.1.1.2

         5 January 2015 at 8:58 am

         @ vto..

         “..Another law to thank John Key for …. makes laws to support and pay foreign-owned banks. Unbelievable. John Key’s legacy..”

         + 1..
       • Bearded Git 2.1.1.3

         5 January 2015 at 10:05 am

         vto:

         “If ever there was evidence needed that most of the public are mushrooms, being kept in the dark and fed bullshit, then this reality is it.”

         Bernard Hickey yelled from the rooftops at the time the OBR law (see Miracle below) was enacted that it was not fair and people would be disgusted when the banks started taking their money to cover the banks’ own stuff-ups.

         The way to minimise the amount that can be stolen by the banks is to split your money between 2/3 banks because that will split your risk and I think there is a threshold above which the banks will steal your money-the so-called “haircut”.
         • Tracey 2.1.1.3.1

           5 January 2015 at 2:57 pm

           +1
       • disturbed 2.1.1.4

         5 January 2015 at 8:22 pm

         100% vto.

         All bankers stick together so why did dumb arsed Kiwis think voting him back in was good for us all?

         Look this year for the big bang as the economy falls apart.

         Ha Ha Ha, best sell us now and last one leaving please turn the lights off as they said in 1987 as Douglas did his worst.
     • Tracey 2.1.2

       5 January 2015 at 2:55 pm

       or they know lirc exists… they havent been well educated
   • Miracle Worker 2.2

     5 January 2015 at 9:35 am

     You are correct – this is a fact and it exists in New Zealand legislation now.

     It is called the “OBR” policy, standing for (Open Bank Resolution).

     All NZ trading banks were required to be fully compliant with this policy, by Treasury decree, by October 2013.

     In order to test this, I wrote to the ANZ Bank (who I bank with) and requested their assurance in writing that I am a first ranking creditor, as a depositor, in the event of their default.

     The ANZ took two months to reply to the question properly, initially refusing to answer it categorically or state one way or the other whether this is the case.

     In the end, I threatened them with legal action forcing them to state their position and mine if they did not do so voluntarily, accusing them of being in breach of any sense of fairness or recognised disclosure practices or rules.

     As a depositor with no debt owing to the bank there was no commercial risk for me in taking this position, although if I had held a mortgage with the bank I am reasonably certain I would have been punished somehow for placing the bank in that position.

     The ANZ ultimately answered after two months, confirming that as a depositor I *am not a secured creditor in the event of the bank’s default*.

     I then applied for the Treasury documents under the OIA, relating to the OBR.

     They confirm that all trading banks in NZ were required to comply with the OBR by October 2013.

     The Treasury documents also refer specifically to the fact that, in the event of trading banks defaulting, they will be closed for up to 48 hours, during which time *no* transactions can or will occur in any way via any means, before being reopened for business.

     During that time, the Treasury documents specifically refer to the process of “haircutting” and “haircuts” occurring on all private deposits in every trading bank in default.

     While the documents do not refer to the exact amount of the “haircut” in NZ’s case, my understanding is (from asking people in the know) that the NZ government has elected to cap it at no more than 20% of all private deposits.

     My understanding, as I have been led to believe, is that the OBR policy only applies to private deposits/depositors and not to company/business trading accounts, but I am not 100% certain on that aspect.

     I was told that Greece and Cyprus were test cases for this policy, and in the case of both of those countries, the “haircuts” were significantly higher than 20%.

     In my personal opinion, I believe there may be a link between the recent rushed-through surveillance legislation and the potential for the OBR to kick in at some point, given the way the public behaved in Greece and Cyprus when their personal savings were all shaved in the same manner.

     In other words, I believe history may prove it has more to do with crowd control and control of dissent than any threat of actual terrorism, but this is only my opinion.

     Either way, as far as the OBR goes, it is an absolute fact and is already in place, just waiting to happen in New Zealand.
     • phillip ure 2.2.1

       5 January 2015 at 9:45 am

       @ miracle worker..

       ..thanks for that clear-detailing..and yr work @ challenging them..

       ..do you mind if i put it up @ whoar..?

       ..it needs shouting from the rooftops..
       • Miracle Worker 2.2.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 9:47 am

         You are most welcome.
         • phillip ure 2.2.1.1.1

           5 January 2015 at 9:50 am

           chrs..
         • Bearded Git 2.2.1.1.2

           5 January 2015 at 10:15 am

           Nice work Miracle. Isn’t there a threshold for each bank above which the banks take the haircut? From memory there was one in Cyprus.

           In other words if the threshold is $50k and the “haircut” is 20% and you have $150k deposited then the banks would steal 20% x ($150k-$50k)=$20k.
         • mickysavage 2.2.1.1.3

           5 January 2015 at 7:22 pm

           Guest post MW?
           • Manuka AOR 2.2.1.1.3.1

             6 January 2015 at 2:41 am

             I hope so – It’s packed full of invaluable info.
     • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.2

       5 January 2015 at 9:55 am

       Good work dude.

       You probably first gave the ANZ legal dept a headache figuring out what the actual position was, then their PR department as they tried to couch the truth in as soft terms as possible.
     • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.3

       5 January 2015 at 10:01 am

       Basically the global central banksters co-ordinated the implementation of the “bail-in” regime throughout the western world last year (as described as it was in progress, by Zero Hedge):

       http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-03-30/canadian-government-offers-bail-regime-prepares-confiscation-bank-deposits-ba

       http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-27/europe-make-cyprus-bail-regime-continental-template

       we can see clearly now that the banks are at the top of the global hierarchy, and the people will go on being sacrificed to on their alter, at their discretion.
       • Rosie 2.2.3.1

         5 January 2015 at 10:15 am

         “we can see clearly now that the banks are at the top of the global hierarchy, and the people will go on being sacrificed to on their alter, at their discretion.”

         “Cause it’s not you you and me, it’s the fu*king banks”

         OM song of the moment brought to you by M.I.A

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCkIYkaLBGs

         “Truth’s like a rotten tooth, you gotta spit it out”
         • greywarshark 2.2.3.1.1

           6 January 2015 at 1:44 pm

           Thanx Rosie Amazing MIA production.

           Got me thinking of Pussy Riot for some reason.
           Latest on them
           http://www.theguardian.com/music/pussy-riot
     • Rosie 2.2.4

       5 January 2015 at 10:05 am

       Thanks for the specifics on the OBR Miracle Worker. Thanks also for sharing your exchange with the ANZ. An interesting and disturbing post, with a dark warning expressed in your summary:

       “In my personal opinion, I believe there may be a link between the recent rushed-through surveillance legislation and the potential for the OBR to kick in at some point, given the way the public behaved in Greece and Cyprus when their personal savings were all shaved in the same manner.

       In other words, I believe history may prove it has more to do with crowd control and control of dissent than any threat of actual terrorism, but this is only my opinion.”
     • alwyn 2.2.5

       5 January 2015 at 11:07 am

       For anyone who wants to see how it would work the Reserve Bank has published quite a lot of stuff on the policy.
       The simplest summary is probably this one.
       http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/regulation_and_supervision/banks/policy/4368385.html
       There appears to be quite a lot of confusion about it, and in particular I see commentators here are talking about how it is the bank affected that can take a cut of the deposits. It isn’t the existing bank that can do this. For this policy to be implemented the bank would be placed, effectively, in receivership. It will be liquidated.
       It should also be noted that before any “haircut” was administered all the share holders funds in the bank would be taken. They will bear the first losses and all their funds would go before any depositor’s funds were affected.
       It will also apply to all depositors. Company/Business accounts are not trated differently to private individuals.
     • Tracey 2.2.6

       5 January 2015 at 2:59 pm

       thanks for this. my understanding from some research i did a month or so ago is the figure would be around 25%
       • alwyn 2.2.6.1

         5 January 2015 at 5:55 pm

         Where did you find this estimate of 25%?
         As I understand the policy they will make a very rapid review of the status of the banks liquidity problems, make a conservative estimate of the amount necessary and freeze that fraction of each customer account.
         They will then make the rest of the account balances available for normal use.
         They doesn’t seem to be any real way to make such an estimate as 25% prior to a liquidity failure happening.
         You also don’t lose the money. It is simply an upper figure until the whole affair is sorted out.
         I very much doubt it will be necessary to use the policy in New Zealand. The major banks are pretty sound. It is better to have this available than to freeze the whole of the accounts until the liquidation is complete.
     • Murray Rawshark 2.2.7

       5 January 2015 at 3:31 pm

       “In other words, I believe history may prove it has more to do with crowd control and control of dissent than any threat of actual terrorism, but this is only my opinion.”

       Since the threat of terrorism, apart from any state actions coming from our allies, is virtually zero, I share your belief. Our squirrels were totally useless against the French act of war in Auckland Harbour. In fact, their greatest achievements have been to spread lies about Ahmed Zaoui (lies from the same country that attacked us in Auckland Harbour), illegally spy on Dotcom, and illegally break into Aziz Choudry’s house. You have to wonder whose side they’re actually on, and I have to wonder why Andrew Little’s Labour was happy to give them extra powers. It’s not usually good practice to reward organisations for failing in such a spectacular manner.
       • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.7.1

         5 January 2015 at 3:38 pm

         Agree. And don’t forget intelligence services quick footed admin support for Slater.

         Except who said they (the intelligence services) have been failing…
         • Murray Rawshark 2.2.7.1.1

           5 January 2015 at 4:12 pm

           True. I forgot to include the stuff about Goff and Whalespew which, if I remember correctly, came to light just before Goff and his colleagues voted for extra powers. Funny old world we live in.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.3

     5 January 2015 at 9:47 am

     Personally, I don’t have any problem with people who take on risk being subject to that risk. The real problem I have is that the shareholders, CEOs and directors won’t be subject to that risk even though they were the ones making the decisions.
     • Colonial Rawshark 2.3.1

       5 January 2015 at 10:06 am

       Exactly what “risk” do you think Worker Joe and Worker Jane think that they are taking on when they put $50 a week into their savings account?

       Hasn’t someone told them that the government “guarantees” the money in their bank?

       The idea being to prevent the old spectre of bank runs.

       Well I guess there is only one solution to this. Instead of keeping money in the bank (money which can then be “vapourised” en masse by keystrokes), buy houses with it.

       We are really a stupid society.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 10:47 am

         Exactly what “risk” do you think Worker Joe and Worker Jane think that they are taking on when they put $50 a week into their savings account?

         I’m pretty sure that they don’t think that they’re taking on any and that they’ll just be getting lots of free money from the interest. Of course, the existence of the interest should be telling them that they’re putting their money at risk as is what happens when you loan people (in this case, banks) money.

         Hasn’t someone told them that the government “guarantees” the money in their bank?

         Yep. Ever since the Great Depression the government has guaranteed banks. This guarantee is massive subsidy to the banks and pretty much allows them to cause the GFC and similar with no consequences to themselves or their customers.

         Well I guess there is only one solution to this. Instead of keeping money in the bank (money which can then be “vapourised” en masse by keystrokes), buy houses with it.

         Pretty sure that won’t work as bubbles always burst.

         We are really a stupid society.

         Yes and the major proof of that is that we base our economy on finances rather than actual physical reality.
         • Colonial Rawshark 2.3.1.1.1

           5 January 2015 at 3:17 pm

           I agree with your comments but would just note that the traditional link between interest rates and risk (i.e. interest is the reward you get for accepting some investment risk) is entirely a pretend one.

           Central banks throughout the world are now enforcing zero interest rate and negative interest rate regimes. And not because risk is very low, but just the opposite.
     • alwyn 2.3.2

       5 January 2015 at 11:10 am

       As I commented just before here, a “haircut” will be used only after the existing shareholders have lost all their equity in the failing bank. They bear the first losses.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.3.2.1

         5 January 2015 at 11:51 am

         That makes me somewhat happier about it. Now to see what actually happens.
       • Ad 2.3.2.2

         5 January 2015 at 1:47 pm

         Well thank God for that.
         But top work to MiracleWorker for pushing it anyway. Chilling.
         • Colonial Rawshark 2.3.2.2.1

           5 January 2015 at 3:20 pm

           I wouldn’t be too relieved because shareholder funds in a bank are only a balance sheet entry, and usually inconsequential when compared to overall bank liabilities.
           • alwyn 2.3.2.2.1.1

             5 January 2015 at 4:59 pm

             It isn’t just that item they would lose.

             They would lose, in the event of a liquidation of the bank, ownership of the whole company. If you had bought some Westpac shares, at say $35.00 each, out of the 2 billion or so outstanding you wouldn’t be terribly happy.

             Incidentally the smallest “shareholder funds” I have seen, in relation to the value of the business they were doing was Shell BP & Todd Oil Services as it was at the time. They developed and operated the Maui and Kapuni fields in Taranaki. The funds were reported in the balance sheet as being share capital of $2,000 less incorporation expenses of something like $700. That was it, for a company that was developing a multi-billion dollar project.
             It helped of course that they were guaranteed by Royal Dutch Shell, BP and the Todd corporation.
   • Colonial Rawshark 2.4

     5 January 2015 at 9:51 am

     1) They have already instituted effectively negative interest rates on the bank accounts of poor people via various “charges” and “bank fees.” So they are already directly taking peoples bank account money already, all the time, without asking.

     2) It’s a nonsense to talk as if the numbers in the account spreadsheet stored in the bank’s computer’s are somehow “your property.” Just thinking about it for a minute makes it clear how absurd a delusion that is. Similar to when you were a kid and you deposited a $20 note of “your” paper run money into “your” bank account, thinking that they keep it somewhere safe for you and when you withdrew it later on it was the same $20 note.
     • The Murphey 2.4.1

       5 January 2015 at 10:03 am

       Q. How is the illusion maintained that banks can ‘legally’ embezzle deposit holders funds as necessary when the central banks can quite literally ‘print’ the deposit funds back into existence ?
       • phillip ure 2.4.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 10:07 am

         @ the murphey..

         + 1..
       • Colonial Rawshark 2.4.1.2

         5 January 2015 at 10:14 am

         The aim is to funnel the balance of wealth to the top 1%, and to leave the bottom 99% with access to less and less resources. Central banks printing more money “dilutes” the value of the dollar holdings of ordinary people who can’t get that cheap new money, in favour of the wealth elite who can access it. However, a more direct way of achieving the same thing (especially when many smaller central banks like NZ’s aren’t allowed to print money outright) is to simply haircut ordinary depositers accounts.

         For poor people, the bulk of their financial assets are in ordinary bank accounts. For wealthy people the bulk of their financial assets are in their property, stock and bond portfolios.

         A policy of haircutting bank deposits hits poorer people the hardest.

         edit: I see that I did not answer your question directly. The illusion is maintained because most people in the 99% (and many in the 1%) have no idea how money is actually created, or about the “monetary operations” that every central bank can conduct as necessary to produce or destroy money in society.
         • Bearded Git 2.4.1.2.1

           5 January 2015 at 10:19 am

           Exactly CR.

           There is no “haircut” on the shares, securities and property owned by the 1% (though I prefer to refer to the top 5% when talking about the rich economies).
         • Colonial Rawshark 2.4.1.2.2

           5 January 2015 at 10:22 am

           I’ll follow on to say that once clear how the Reserve Bank can create money at will, and how our nation has hundreds of billions of dollars in bank deposits and similar financial instruments sitting around on various institutions electronic spreadsheets, that the phenomenon of child poverty/hunger and homelessness in NZ is an utter disgrace on a leadership elite which is becoming increasingly blind and deaf.

           TL:DR as a nation we’re not short of money to help NZers. We’d just rather get new Italian marble tiling for the bathroom, and German appliances for the new kitchen.
           • The Murphey 2.4.1.2.2.1

             6 January 2015 at 9:50 am

             My original question was rhetorical but thank you for the response CR

             With the outing of bank fraud LIBOR illicit laundering of cash FX manipulation HVT and such like…

             Having to listen to the charade play out that ‘we can’t afford it’ – how will ‘it’ be funded and such like should have any person(s) responsible for suffering or death of any human being due to continuation of the acknowledged charade up on charges and tried for the suffering they have forced onto human populace

             Pick the scenario in which bank fraud and the charade perpetuated by politicians and assorted talking heads has created suffering and death then understand it is one of the most vile conspiracies ever known
         • Draco T Bastard 2.4.1.2.3

           5 January 2015 at 11:09 am

           Central banks printing more money “dilutes” the value of the dollar holdings of ordinary people who can’t get that cheap new money, in favour of the wealth elite who can access it.

           Actually, that’s wrong.

           The central banks printing money with the government then spending it into the economy would help the poor to have more money but it would dilute the value of high savings amounts. In other words, the central banks printing money would devalue being rich if it’s done the right way which, as we saw with Quantitative Easing after the GFC, it isn’t. The money is printed and given to the rich to protect their wealth.
           • Colonial Rawshark 2.4.1.2.3.1

             5 January 2015 at 11:38 am

             Yep, money creation for fiscal (government spending) purposes would have been helpful to far more people. In other words, bail out communities, not bail out the banks.
             • Poission …

               5 January 2015 at 11:59 am

               money creation for fiscal (government spending) purposes would have been helpful to far more people.

               The fed profits since QE was started 2009-2013 has transferred to the US treasury 350 billion$ or greater then the total profits over the previous 18 years,a good little earner.

               http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/14/the-insanely-profitable-federal-reserve.html
               • Colonial Rawshark …

                 5 January 2015 at 3:28 pm

                 Yes, and of course the whole thing is a mathematical contrivance which allows the US to print $$$ to fund its wars and its war machines for corporate profit.

                 The Federal Reserve prints money to purchase debt (Treasuries) from the US Treasury. Those Treasuries pay the Federal Reserve interest – but has to print even more money to give to the Treasury, so that the Treasury can pay that interest to the Federal Reserve.

                 The Federal Reserve ends up making a profit on the whole deal (its profit consisting of dollars that it created, originally). And then shifts that profit to the US Treasury to spend on wars.

                 What a happy money merry go round, if you are in on it.
       • Miracle Worker 2.4.1.3

         5 January 2015 at 10:23 am

         I think you will find it has something to do with the fact that all trading banks are only required to hold 5% in reserve to cover all outstanding mortgages and loans, meaning they are effectively ponzi schemes, reliant on borrowers to keep paying interest in return to cover any withdrawal(s) you may wish to make.

         The potential for a run on the banks is significant if you factor in the probability of another GFC occurring again.

         John Key’s supporters literally have no idea of the degree to which he and Bill English are confusing luck with skill in their ‘management’ of our economy.

         “Gambling” is too kind a word to describe it.

         I predict that financial illiteracy will be the undoing of many, many New Zealanders, sooner than many would want to believe is possible.

         But as they say – “the annual general meeting of the Apathy Society is cancelled this year due to an increase in interest”.
         • Colonial Rawshark 2.4.1.3.1

           5 January 2015 at 11:57 am

           And bear in mind they only have to look for that 5% of reserves AFTER the fact i.e. lend first, look for reserves sometime later. IE at any given time they might not have that 5% on hand.

           And the idea of have 5c on the dollar of reserves is laughable anyways when you consider that derivatives “investments” (bets) that banks make can balloon out to multiples of liability.
3. Paul 3

   5 January 2015 at 8:17 am

   Interesting article about Obama and the TPP
   http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/02/obama-takes-care-of-business/
4. Saarbo 4

   5 January 2015 at 9:01 am

   Prior to the election, our lightweight media were raving about Rod Drury and his company ZERO, now the share price is starting to match reality, I expect that ZERO will be one of NZ’s more spectacular flops as its financial performance reflects its name.

   Rod Drury was one of our hopeless business elite who loudly supported the Nats/John Key prior to the election.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/263026/xero-struggles-for-traction-in-us

   and surprise, surprise…nothing on this in the NZH.
   • phillip ure 4.1

     5 January 2015 at 9:26 am

     @ saarbo..

     to be fair to the herald..

     ..memory sent me diving into my archives..

     ..and they have been covering the fall of the share-price..

     http://whoar.co.nz/?s=drury
     • tricledrown 4.1.1

       5 January 2015 at 11:56 am

       Tighty righty will be taking a haircut from the ponzi dream that is Zero!
       Zero has failed to get a toe in the US market which was what the hype by Drury and many others said was going to make this company global.
       When you look at Zero’s profit it reflects reality.
       • phillip ure 4.1.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 12:11 pm

         then there is so much of this about..

         ‘opensource free accounting software’..

         ..(..i mean..fill yer boots..!..)
   • Colonial Rawshark 4.2

     5 January 2015 at 9:43 am

     I laughed back then, when Drury told Dotcom that Xero (and some bizarre concept for a centralised corporatised ‘Internet Tsar’) represented the real internet and social media innovation in NZ, not MEGA.

     Our corporate elite are so out of touch. But that’s what you get for living in a world formed by just 1% to 2% of the Earth’s population.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

       5 January 2015 at 2:18 pm

       Our corporate elite are so out of touch. But that’s what you get for living in a world formed by just 1% to 2% of the Earth’s population.

       IMO, it’s not that much of the worlds population that determining the path we tread.
       • Colonial Rawshark 4.2.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 3:32 pm

         Hmmm, true, only the top 1% of those have any real power. The rest are just well paid hangers-on and professional service providers.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.3

     5 January 2015 at 10:08 am

     Xero has been struggling since its inception. It’s a good idea but it won’t be a commercial success ever as the majority of people just don’t need expensive software to do their accounts.
     • Once wasTim 4.3.1

       5 January 2015 at 6:41 pm

       another example of a company trying to get too big too quick. I heard somewhere recently that los americanos were ditching them in favour of MYOB for various reasons.
       I’ve wondered about Drury’s ACTUAL expertise and creds as a bizzniss wonderboy ever since I tried to get in touch with him over an alternative to our reliance on the single undersea fibre via Fiji and his efforts for an alteranative (which failed). There was an alternative at the time which there was enough money for – but one that would have seen routing and reliance on Orange, Brazil, Papaete, etc (the latter now having some of the fastest connectivity).
       I’m not sure Drury is ekshly the bizzniss sage people should be putting faith in – but you know …… more fool them and those that do: free market, bullshit and jellybeans and all – let ’em get on with it. I’m sure his employees have the utmost faith in him – why some of them even paint their houses grey, white and british racing green with charcoal roof. bahahahahahaha
5. saveNZ 5

   5 January 2015 at 9:17 am

   John Key is our Nixon.

   On another note saw this article about how ‘successful’ charter schools are in the US. By successful I mean successful in taking money for kids education and it transforming it into corrupt money making schemes for business.

   http://www.salon.com/2015/01/01/exposing_the_charter_school_lie_michelle_rhee_louis_c_k_and_the_year_phony_education_reform_revealed_its_true_colors/

   One of the main ways to improve inequality is through education. Taking the ‘burger king’ charter school style approach with big business ‘advertising’ a way to fundraise, is a complete failure and the US has poor scholastic results compared to Finland which lead literacy.

   In Finland there is virtually no testing of students, children start school at 7, and teaching is considered to be one of the most important professions. Charter schools has failed everywhere. The new test, test, test system in NZ is labelling kids as young as 5 years old as ‘below standard’. Of course the testing is necessary for ‘performance pay’ initiatives for teachers. Again will be a total failure and taking money which should be for kids back to administration to administer all these ‘performance enhancing’ schemes which are proven not to work.

   http://www.salon.com/2015/01/03/over_testing_our_kids_is_not_the_answer_its_the_problem/

   Here is one of the best articles I have read about educating kids for the future.

   http://www.newsweek.com/creativity-crisis-74665
   • phillip ure 5.1

     5 January 2015 at 9:37 am

     @ save nz..

     “..In Finland there is virtually no testing of students, children start school at 7, and teaching is considered to be one of the most important professions..”

     and let me guess..they also don’t do homework..

     ..i think imposing homework on children..(esp young ones..)..apart from exhortations to read..!..read..!..read..!..it doesn’t matter what it is at this stage..just read..!..read..!..read..!

     ..is both cruel and illogical..

     ..i really feel the hours spent in school are enough of any day to be spent ‘learning’..

     ..what about living..?..what about play..?..what about goofing-off/doing nothing..?..dreaming..?

     ..homework is given mainly at the insistance of helicopter-parents..

     ..and with ‘the boy’..he knew my attitude to homework..and also knew that he cd ask for help if he wanted/needed it..

     ..(and that he wd always get a ‘yes!’ to the ‘can we go to the library?’-question..)

     ..but that aside from that it was up to him to do as little/much as he liked..to get thru..

     ..and that managing that time/those tasks were his business…

     ..among a list of things i have never said to him is:..

     ..’shouldn’t you be doing yr homework?’..

     ..and any questions of that ilk..

     ..and if i were king for a day..i wd ban homework..
     • Molly 5.1.1

       5 January 2015 at 12:38 pm

       Phil, you would find yourself in agreement with Alfie Kohn. He has written several book on education and parenting worth reading, including one called The Homework Myth.

       I am always surprised at the notion that quantity is better than quality – or as you say – creativity.
       • The Fairy Godmother 5.1.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 5:27 pm

         Also anything by Ken Robinson. He has done some good TED talks about creativity and how schooling undermines it.
     • Murray Rawshark 5.1.2

       5 January 2015 at 3:52 pm

       “..i really feel the hours spent in school are enough of any day to be spent ‘learning’..”

       No, they’re not enough and you show this yourself with your willingness to take your kid to the library. Kids learn from almost everything they do, albeit at different rates. The hours spent at school are plenty to be spent in a formal and structured learning environment. Many learn more in a freer environment, which teachers will be less and less able to provide under NAct’s plans for miseducation.
   • Clemgeopin 5.2

     5 January 2015 at 10:01 am

     John Key is our Nixon

     …and our Pinnochio and New Zealand’s Judas.
     • Paul 5.2.1

       5 January 2015 at 10:34 am

       He is our Thatcher, Reagan and Pinochet.
       • Bearded Git 5.2.1.1

         5 January 2015 at 10:52 am

         Pinochet is a bit rough….. Key hasn’t started throwing opponents out of helicopters yet.

         Key is awful, but incredibly in Abbott, Australia has managed to elect someone even more awful.
         • Colonial Rawshark 5.2.1.1.1

           5 January 2015 at 12:34 pm

           I always suspected that they had more awful people in Australia in general; that is more of them, and of a more awful nature.
         • Murray Rawshark 5.2.1.1.2

           5 January 2015 at 3:57 pm

           I’m not sure Abbott is more awful. I think he’s just less manufactured. The worst of the Abbott regime is the refugee policy, and FJK climbed aboard that even though no boats come to our shores. In many ways, Abbott is just catching up to what FJK and his predecessors back to 1984 have already done.
           • Bearded Git 5.2.1.1.2.1

             5 January 2015 at 5:14 pm

             MR-agreed on the “manufactured” point. One of Key’s strength’s is his ability to take advice from Crosby-Textor.

             Like it or not taking this advice has worked, though Key has been lucky with earthquakes, dairy prices and Kim Dotcom and an infighting opposition all of which have now gone……..discuss!
6. RedLogix 6

   5 January 2015 at 10:47 am

   Two days ago we drove from Nhill in the Wimmera down to the coast via the Henty Highway which runs just west of the Grampians. The day before had peaked at 43 degC – but the winds had been light. When we woke that morning there was a strong wind from the NW.

   Setting off it was plain this was a Severe fire warning day. Across to Horsham by about midday was hot, even the turbo-diesel sluggishly sucking in overheated air felt wilted.

   But the drive down through the Cherrypoole forest area was something else – the heat and dust limited visibility to just a few km. The Grampians loomed dimly like the backbone of a long desiccated dinosauar. The landscape creaked and crackled.

   At one point we stopped and looked over a field to the jagged peaks – less than a 1 km away but dim in the searing haze. The metal gate I leaned on for a moment was too hot to touch. The grass crunched underfoot, every twig was kindling, the gums stank of a vapour milliseconds from exploding.

   It wasn’t a smart place to be so we did not linger – and a few hours later the southerly change brought lightening and fires.
   • Colonial Rawshark 6.1

     5 January 2015 at 11:36 am

     Bloody hell.
   • Colonial Rawshark 6.2

     5 January 2015 at 11:41 am

     Yer got the heart of a poet, mate.
   • Manuka AOR 6.3

     5 January 2015 at 12:01 pm

     “The grass crunched underfoot, every twig was kindling, the gums stank of a vapour milliseconds from exploding. ”

     The sun scorches through a broken softdrink bottle by the road… instant inferno.

     Then they blame and hunt down some “arsonist” kid who may or may not have had matches, so that the actual situation, the causes and any ameliorating factors, or calls for radical change in approach to all things climate related, can be ignored or denied yet again.
     • weka 6.3.1

       5 January 2015 at 1:50 pm

       There’s also the issue of deforestation.
       • Manuka AOR 6.3.1.1

         6 January 2015 at 6:02 am

         Not so much for bushfires, but for general land degradation, desertification and massive dust storms – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_dust_storm – the pastoralists may have something to answer for. One of the ancient legends told by a Wirradgeree elder, passed down from ‘pre-invasion’ times, was that devastation would be wrought over the land when strange beasts appeared with cloven hooves. The soil was too fine and too dry to sustain such creatures.

         Camelids would have been more sustainable.
         • weka 6.3.1.1.1

           6 January 2015 at 9:22 am

           NZ soils have the same problem I think (pasture/hooves), but we get away with it because of the rainfall.

           Given that forests change local climate as well as the general watershed, do you think that this would have an effect on fires?
           • Manuka AOR 6.3.1.1.1.1

             7 January 2015 at 9:21 am

             Well in Aus, the trees are mostly eucalypts, which are super-combustible. The oil is in the air in what feels and smells like vast clouds of it. The way RedLogix put it is spot on: “a vapour milliseconds from exploding. ” So the trees over much of Aus are a part of the bushfire problem. They have to be cleared in strips to make fire breaks – though the fires leap across wide spaces anyway. It’s like having the air full of kero or petrol fumes. (In the tropical north it is different, and clearing those rainforests for mining etc.. aargh).

             In NZ we have done something else again by clearing vast tracts of natural bush that maintained moisture in the air and soil, and replacing it with pines, that look cloned – It was heartbreaking to return through the ranges to Rotorua after a long time away and see those mono pines stretching to the horizon — where once were our own beautiful living, diverse natives. That large scale removal of our native forests and replacement with these very different trees has to have a huge impact on our climate and soil (apart from the loss of native birds and wildlife).
             • weka …

               7 January 2015 at 10:09 am

               ok, deforestation is the wrong term (yes, I know about the gums). Let’s say land clearing instead. I think the clearing done in the last 300 years has altered the water cycles. Do you know Peter Andrews’ work? He’s not working with natives, but he is showing how waterways in Australia should be working (slowing water flows, letting them seep into the landscape) rather than the slash and burn farming which creates trenches for water to move through very fast and stops it from spreading into the land. Replacing ecosystems with pasture seems like a general drying out and I’d guess that alters local climate too.
               • Manuka AOR …

                 7 January 2015 at 2:29 pm

                 Replacing ecosystems with pasture seems like a general drying out and I’d guess that alters local climate too.

                 Yes, definitely, and that applies equally across NZ. The good news is it can be reversed – at least on small scale local projects. I have seen land that was dried out and rendered near infertile through overuse for grazing, restored to natural bush with return of wildlife and increased moisture in soil and air (something virtually anyone can do), and also in the same valley, turned into a flourishing, multi-food producing oasis via permaculture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison
                 • weka …

                   7 January 2015 at 4:54 pm

                   Me too 😀 It’s one of the few things that gives me hope. The people doing this work are unsung heroes in the face of AGW and other catastrophes.
     • Murray Rawshark 6.3.2

       5 January 2015 at 4:02 pm

       I always wondered about the clamour to find arsonists in a country that has been spontaneously catching fire since before Adam got his first pair of long pants. I suspect it’s not hard for vigorous interrogation techniques to get a confession out of one of the inbred products of outback life.
       • Manuka AOR 6.3.2.1

         6 January 2015 at 3:19 am

         Yes, bushfires have raged in Aus for millennia. Plants have adapted, with seeds germinating from the fire itself, yet we ‘modern human beings’ seem reluctant to even acknowledge reality, let alone adapt to it.

         However, bushfires now are “20 times more deadly and 80 times more destructive than a century ago, and worse to come” http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/bushfires-in-australia-deadlier-more-destructive-and-worse-to-come/story-e6frflp0-1226815740178
   • aj 6.4

     5 January 2015 at 12:11 pm

     I’m not sure many New Zealander’s understand just how dangerous conditions become with temperatures 35C+, humidity in single figures and then wind … it hard to describe Australia as a ‘lucky country’
     • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1

       5 January 2015 at 2:21 pm

       Oh, they may be in some places:

       “We’ve had fires started by mowers, power lines, camp fires, car fires, target shooting and even you know the pile of grass clippings that secretly gets thrown over the bank into a local reserve which eventually simultaneously combusts.”

       Pity about the english language that that guy is presently ripping apart though.
       • Manuka AOR 6.4.1.1

         6 January 2015 at 3:25 am

         Heh – Spontaneous combustion of language – a real-time demo 🙂
7. ron 7

   5 January 2015 at 11:20 am

   Shearer’s Showdown starts today. Headline on Stuff. For a moment my heart beat faster as I thought someone in Labour was finally acting.
   Then I read the article what a pity.
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/sheep/64656721/shearers-showdown-starts-today
8. Manuka AOR 8

   5 January 2015 at 11:46 am

   NZ Glaciers .. Going, going … gone

   I tramped with my school class right up to the Fox and we scrambled all over it. Unforgettable, awe inspiring. But that was “back then” and this is now:

   “New Zealand’s two big glaciers, Fox and Franz Josef, are now only accessible to tourists by air and their retreat has been highlighted over the way global warming is impacting on businesses that depend on ice and snow. Glacier-related tourism on the West Coast directly contributes at least $100 million a year to local economies, New York Times reports.

   “But now at Fox the river has changed course cutting the trail up and Franz Josef lost hiking access in 2012. Helicopter landings are the only way to get on the glaciers now.”
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/64643146/plight-of-new-zealand-glaciers-is-global-news
   • vto 8.1

     5 January 2015 at 12:19 pm

     Tracks to access again can be installed easily, but yes retreat is the name of the game…. at least you can still hoist blocks of centuries-old ice from the river below to cool the gin & tonic later in the day. Best ice in the world… quite something
   • lprent 8.2

     5 January 2015 at 12:20 pm

     I don’t think that any temperate lowland glaciers will survive the coming decade. For that matter it is unlikely that any of our South Island glaciers will.

     There are a few localities, where local climate shifts conditions and wind up favoring increased snow precipitation, that will briefly (ie decades) outweigh the warming effects and you can see small numbers of glaciers increasing in mass. Like the smallish volumes of ice in the Kathmandu range in the Himalayas.

     But our existing climate change effect will kill virtually all glaciers outside of the polar regions within the lifetime of people living today. The downstream effects of that are likely to be difficult for farmers and populations in many areas.

     The drop in summer flows (no glaciers == no large storage of ice to melt throughout summer) in places like the Canterbury Plains will just cause shifts in agricultural practices, either causing reversions to dry farming or major irrigation schemes.

     In places like the deltas of the great rivers in in China, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh the likely summer effect on food production is going to be catastrophic.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1

       5 January 2015 at 2:07 pm

       The drop in summer flows (no glaciers == no large storage of ice to melt throughout summer) in places like the Canterbury Plains will just cause shifts in agricultural practices, either causing reversions to dry farming or major irrigation schemes.

       Oh, I’m sure that the farmers will first try massive irrigation schemes (paid for by the taxpayer) and then possibly revert to dry farming after they’ve massively damaged the ecosystems there.
       • Manuka AOR 8.2.1.1

         6 January 2015 at 4:32 am

         Diverting from the rivers – I guess until they run dry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Plains_Water

         This from Google intro: “It is the first of a number of exciting enhancement projects we plan for the … Water is extracted from the Rakaia River, into a short canal, alongside the … up the existing penstock and into the Rangitata Diversion Race for delivery to farmers.” … intro for this link: https://www.trustpower.co.nz/our-assets-and-capability/power-generation/highbank-pumping-station (NZ rivers are listed on the ‘assets’ page of the company?)
     • Manuka AOR 8.2.2

       6 January 2015 at 6:46 am

       I don’t think that any temperate lowland glaciers will survive the coming decade. For that matter it is unlikely that any of our South Island glaciers will.

       Antarctica itself is losing a phenomenal amount of ice – “159 billion tonnes a year” http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11258217

       The drop in summer flows (no glaciers == no large storage of ice to melt throughout summer) in places like the Canterbury Plains will just cause shifts in agricultural practices, either causing reversions to dry farming or major irrigation schemes.

       The irrigation schemes are grabbing at the already vanishing supplies of water and diverting them (wiki Central Plains link above). It’s a matter of time before the rivers run dry, and not much of it: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/fish-from-dry-canterbury-rivers-rescued-2015010115#axzz3NyB8TGOn

       It is mind boggling that they are still not making a radical shift to diversification and sustainable farming – instead just rolling along till every last drop is gone.
   • RedLogix 8.3

     5 January 2015 at 7:28 pm

     One of my best days tramping ever was exactly 40 years ago – over the Main Divide at Scone Creek and down the Godley Glacier. Perfect weather in a setting I’ll never forget. Even then the retreat of the glacier made for some tricky moments, skirting the terminal lakes and unstable slopes.

     We may have been one of the last parties to have taken that exact route.

     When I look at google Earth these days – the last 15km or so of the glacier are not there anymore. Now it’s just a mess of impassable moraine.
     • Manuka AOR 8.3.1

       6 January 2015 at 4:10 am

       We were lucky to have had those experiences. My feeling at the time – at the Fox, was that it was achingly beautiful (having only known the subtropical North). Now, equally, I feel an aching sadness that so much has gone.
9. The Fairy Godmother 9

   5 January 2015 at 12:25 pm

   Phil Ure totally agree with you about homework. I had battles with the school about it. Thankfully the new principal of our primary is far more sensible. Also on the charter school front. If you want to see how they might run in nz look at private for profit childcare. Some of them aspire to the minimum standards to get very generous govt subsidies can be as much as $450 per child including moe and winz and there programs are more geared towards marketing their product rather than what the children actually need.
10. The Fairy Godmother 10

    5 January 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Phil Ure totally agree with you about homework. I had battles with the school about it. Thankfully the new principal of our primary is far more sensible. Also on the charter school front. If you want to see how they might run in nz look at private for profit childcare. Some of them aspire to the minimum standards to get very generous govt subsidies can be as much as $450 per child including moe and winz and there programs are more geared towards marketing their product rather than what the children actually need.
11. greywarshark 11

    5 January 2015 at 12:51 pm

    The weather outlook for us is hot but with a hint of rain and perhaps gales and fires in Otago where it got to the high 30s with only 12% humidity. In Palestine no doubt it is similar, more predictably hot, and just as uncertain. Confusing.

    Robert Fisk has written a fine, fair and heated exposition on Palestine and its decision to ‘request to join the International Criminal Court’ and the monster-mash of the big powers with their bigoted and unreasonable response to it.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-the-real-reason-why-israel-and-the-us-dont-want-palestine-to-join-the-international-criminal-court-9956751.html

    Yet still these wretched Palestinians persist, after this most humiliating of insults, in resorting to international law to resolve their conflict with Israel. Here they go again, dutifully seeking membership of the International Criminal Court. Will these Arabs never learn?>/i>

    Please note – for the feeble-minded – this is sarcasm, irony, what-you-will.
12. Philip Ferguson 12

    5 January 2015 at 1:39 pm

    While the working class in New Zealand remains depressingly passive as successive governments have whittled away hard-won rights, conditions and living standards, large chunks of the working class in Ireland are in rebellion against the Fine Gael-Labour coalition government and its vicious austerity measures in the south. (Fine Gael is, historically, the most right-wing of the major parties in Ireland and always forms governments with the Labour Party as junior partner.)

    At present the key battle in the south is around the attempt to impose domestic water charges. While workers in New Zealand have largely forgotten the industrial meaning of the word ‘picket’, working class communities in Ireland have been involved in physically resisting the installation of water meters, sabotaging them were they have been installed, marching in huge demonstrations in the capital, Dublin, and resisting violence by the state.

    To the forefront of the resistance in working class communities has been the revolutionary group éírígí, with whom several members of the Redline collective are affiliated. éírígí was formed as a tiny Dublin-based campaigns group in April 2006, on the 90th anniversary of the Easter Rebellion of 1916. Since then it has transformed into a revolutionary political party with ciorcail (circles) across the island.

    Below is the party’s New Year statement, which we’ve put up on Redline. (Stormont is the parliament in the north; Leinster House is the parliament in the south.):

    http://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/03/revolutionary-ireland-eirigi-new-year-statement/
13. Draco T Bastard 13

    5 January 2015 at 2:04 pm

    Advertisers overcome death

    She may have been dead for more than half a century, but that has not stopped Marilyn Monroe becoming the new face of a beauty brand.

    I suppose it’s cheaper, they don’t have to put up with any eccentricities of the actor and skin is always going to be perfect.
14. The Pink Postman 14

    5 January 2015 at 2:05 pm

    There must be thouands of working people who every day give thanks to the Labour Government who made housing ownership possible by the State Housing co-operation system. I cannot understand why it has not been revived .It was the best housing ownership system available for working people ever.The envy of the world.
15. Clemgeopin 15

    5 January 2015 at 5:28 pm

    TWITTER:

    :/ @CurvedDaily

    who tf is paul mccartney???!??! this is why i love kanye for shining light on unknown artists
    4:48 AM – 3 Jan 2015

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/64663647/kanye-fans-this-paul-mccartney-guy-gonna-be-huge
    • Stephanie Rodgers 15.1

      5 January 2015 at 9:10 pm

      Yes, in a stunning development, the kind of young, American, 21st century teens who listen to Kanye aren’t Beatles fans. It’s almost like they’re not especially relevant these days except for their historical impact. How utterly terrible. 🙄
      • Clemgeopin 15.1.1

        5 January 2015 at 9:46 pm

        I suspect half of it is sarcasm.
16. Clemgeopin 16

    5 January 2015 at 5:36 pm

    Top 10 girls’ names in 2014 (2013 place in brackets):

    1. Charlotte (1)

    2. Olivia (5)

    3. Isla (6)

    4. Emily (2)

    5. Sophie (4)

    6. Amelia (7)

    7. Ella (10)

    8. Harper (19)

    9. Sophia (16)

    10. Ruby (3)

    Top 10 boys’ names in 2014 (2013 place in brackets):

    1. Oliver (1)

    2. Jack (2)

    3. James (3)

    4. Mason (5)

    5. Liam (6)

    6. William (4)

    7. Noah (9)

    8. Lucas (8)

    9. Benjamin (14)

    10. Jacob (13)

    The full list is available on the Department of Internal Affairs website.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/64659969/new-zealands-top-baby-names-in-2014
    • alwyn 16.1

      5 January 2015 at 6:28 pm

      There was a death notice in the Dom/Post on Saturday.
      It gave the names of the deceased and her descendants. I think you could, from the names, say immediately what generation they were part of as the names seemed to be so typical of the fashions through the years.
      The deceased was Elsie.
      Her children were Mark and Scott.
      Grandchildren included Christina, Melissa and Madison
      Great grandchildren included Mishaylah, Jahvam and Braxdym.

      I rather like the simpler form of the current names, as reported by Internal Affairs, although I looked in vain for my own distinguished nomenclature in the list.
      • Clemgeopin 16.1.1

        5 January 2015 at 7:37 pm

        I looked in vain for my own distinguished nomenclature in the list

        Sadly these names don’t figure on the list either :
        Clemgeopin, AsleepWhileWalking, TheContrarian, Phillip Ure, Colonial Rawshark, Poission, Once Was Tim, Tricledrown, RedLogix, The Fairy Godmother, Bad12, The Pink Postman, Draco T Bastard nor the Bearded Git!
17. Morrissey 17

    5 January 2015 at 5:57 pm

    They’ll sell Radio NZ National soon;
    it’s already sounding like Fox News
    Outspoken, Radio NZ National, Monday 5 January 2015

    Today’s episode is billed grandly on the Radio New Zealand website as “Guyon Espiner examines the rapidly changing media landscape.”

    Sadly—infuriatingly—the people he is “examining” this with are: Bill Ralston, Gavin Ellis and Tim Watkin, which means the “examination” is being conducted by three right wingers and a wimp. Watkin is accustomed to being kicked from pillar to post at least once a week on NewstalkZB’s risible Huddle segment and on Jim Mora’s programme; [1] today Radio NZ has him lined up for pretty much the same treatment.

    To his credit, early in the programme, Watkin ceased giggling dutifully in response to Ralston’s wisecracks, and refuted the notion that Blubberguts Slater is a journalist. And when that National Party stalwart Ralston idiotically tried to suggest that Nicky Hager is somehow equivalent to Blubberguts, Watkin refuted him on that too.

    Ellis, who evidently thinks of himself as some kind of elder statesman of journalism, announces that Blubberguts IS a journalist, because….(wait for it)…he broke the story of Len Brown’s sexual affair. That was a “legitimate story”, according to Ellis.

    God save us all. Judging by the quality of this discussion, and the makeup of this panel, there doesn’t seem to be any hope for Radio New Zealand, however.

    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-31032011/#comment-314772
18. Miracle Worker 18

    5 January 2015 at 9:30 pm

    When John Key referred to “aspiration” on the campaign trail, he forgot to add that mediocrity was the thing he most wanted his supporters to aspire to. Clearly they are living his dream, oblivious to the nightmare they are inflicting upon anyone else with a shred of intelligence.
19. Weepus beard 19

    5 January 2015 at 10:01 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/2/i/a/f/8/image.related.StuffSplash.300×400.12i9xb.11ys6n.png/1420440423821.jpg

    Is Russell Packer involved in Slater’s new media outlet, Freed?

    Russell Packer having urinated on a football pitch in front of 15,000 and king-hitting a pub patron late at night, it would not surprise me.
    • Barfly 19.1

      5 January 2015 at 10:56 pm

      it would still be his biggest error of judgement to date 🙂

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