Open Mike 05/01/2017

125 comments on “Open Mike 05/01/2017”

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1. HDCAFriendlyTroll 1

   5 January 2017 at 7:19 am

   Donald Trump, greatest American President since Reagan, delivering American jobs to American workers. And he’s not even in office yet!

   "Trump is already delivering the jobs he promised America" https://t.co/11spTMa6Tm

   — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 3, 2017

   • Gabby 1.1

     5 January 2017 at 11:31 am

     What’s the deal, d’you reckon? Nice wee tax break come February?

2. Sanctuary 2

   5 January 2017 at 7:29 am

   Two questions. First, how much of Peter Leitch’s and that old trout Micelle Boags comments to Lara Bridger were simple, old fashioned class based snobbery? From Maori TV:

   “…Lara Wharepapa Bridger, 23, says she was at a vineyard on Waiheke Island earlier this week with her mother. Leitch, famously known as The Mad Butcher, approached the group about not drinking and driving. He doubted that they were locals, which sparked Bridger to tell him she was born on the island. This promoted Leitch to make the comment – which he describes as light hearted banter but Bridger took as a racist taunt…”

   Leitch doubted they were local because they were not white on a white mans island, and we all understand the nexus between race and class in New Zealand. Here was a rich white man, who noticed a brown woman inside his gate. He was nonplussed at her reply, did she not know how God had ordered their estate?

   My second question is would pointing out the primacy of his snobbery, rather than falling back on the reflexive identity politics of race, been the better way of attacking a National party establishment figure like Leitch? Which would resonate better with Joe Sixpack?

   2016 saw elite identity politics discredited as an elite scam. Time for the left to change tactics and the angle of attack, methinks.

   • Carolyn_nth 2.1

     5 January 2017 at 7:36 am

     Was the group Leitch approached all women? I’ve not heard of any mention of a man in that group.

     The response should fit the action, not be fabricated to fit a particular political agenda.

     I do think the gentrification of Waiheke is part of the context of the action.

     • Sanctuary 2.1.1

       5 January 2017 at 8:01 am

       What the hell are you blathering on about now? Let me guess, you are clinging to the wreckage of identity politics because that is your safe place?

       I asked two questions, you addressed neither of them and then went off on a complete tangent.

       BTW, I don’t want this discussion to be derailed by identity politics trolls. If it were, it would be the perfect ironic demonstration of what a cancer identity politics is to the left, but that is about all.

       • Carolyn_nth 2.1.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 8:23 am

         I did address your points, but your focus on your own agenda seems to have resulted in you missing my points. You seem to want to fit the incident into your own particular political agenda, which dismisses anything that doesn’t directly address class as the primary focus.

         The incident clearly was about ‘race’ – and yes there maybe a class element in it, as I indicated by referring to the context as a recently gentrified island.

         As you also say Sir Mad noticed her as a “brown woman”, possibly there was a gender element. Would a rich white guy be so willing to approach a group of brown men to make such statements?

         The nexus of ‘race’, class and gender, doesn’t mean somehow class has primacy – that is fitting it into your own political agenda. It’s only your perception that (so-called) “identity politics” has been discredited as an elite scam. There seems to be a few guys around lately banging that drum – it doesn’t make it so generally.

         You seem to be wanting to use the incident to attack Sir Mad for being rich. This is not the incident for that. ‘Race’ was at the front and centre of the incident.

         I have had conversations with Māori people who talk about the deep pain felt by the dispossession of their land. It is something beyond the comprehension, or not even on the radar of many Pākehā. Consequently, it is so painful, many Māori find it difficult to talk about. It is totally insensitive to want to fit the incident into your own political agenda.

         The core incident was a woman saying she was tangata whenua, and Sir Mad replying that it was a “white man’s island”.

         See this explanation by one who can talk about it.

     • garibaldi 2.1.2

       5 January 2017 at 8:04 am

       Let’s not be consumed by this storm in a tea cup…. it’s playing right into the hands of our dimwit Media. This “off the cuff” stuff will always be with us. To put it mildly there are far greater issues around than this.

   • tc 2.2

     5 January 2017 at 8:06 am

     Light hearted banter…..taken out of context……misquoted….I misspoke (a shonky personal fav if caught out)…..etc etc

     Easy work to dog whistle in this country and never get called on it when the MSM is chock full of sympathetic hacks and commentators like Boag, Henry, Hoskings, Trevitt, Watkins etc etc

     Move on people and leave the racist snobs who inhabit the likes of waiheke, pauanui etc to their white world view.

     • Sanctuary 2.2.1

       5 January 2017 at 8:16 am

       Yeah, I am struck how the entire establishment is busy issuing statements to support Leitch – Boag, the Warriors, race relations commissioner, establishment media figures…

       Amazing to see the establishment swing into action to protect its own. The toffs and their apologists are obvious when they take the velvet gloves off.

       • tc 2.2.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 8:28 am

         national have done a superb job of stacking these bodies with helpers to support their subtle and overt messages and themes.

         You only have to look at Weldon’s mediawonks efforts in neutering their already limited news offerings and removing Campbell.

       • James 2.2.1.2

         5 January 2017 at 10:02 am

         Or they actually know him and are basing their comments of personal knowledge as opposed to a one sided Facebook rant.

   • The decrypter 2.3

     5 January 2017 at 8:11 am

     Nearly fell of my bar stool, What with boags mugshot and so called off the record comment actually mentioned in the herald –let alone splashed across the front page I’m wondering if maybe /just maybe .– Is the worm turning?

   • Jenny Kirk 2.4

     5 January 2017 at 8:39 am

     Sanctuary – it was an unthinking, ignorant comment to make on the part of Sir Mad Butcher which amounted to racism – not identity politics – and possibly prompted by his own self-importance as a rich white man – one of the many who have taken over Maori land and see that as an okay thing to do. Racism comes in many forms – even in so-called light-hearted banter. And Ms Awful Boag added to it. Hers is a shocking comment – superior, dismissive, nasty, and also racist.

     • Rosemary McDonald 2.4.1

       5 January 2017 at 8:50 am

       “Hers is a shocking comment – superior, dismissive, nasty, and also racist.”

       And really, really stupid.

       I know she’s not overburdened with political intelligence and sensitivity, but this is extreme…even for her.

       Its almost as if she gave serious thought to how she could exacerbate the situation. Deliberately poured fuel on a smoldering fire.

       I’m having a Hanlon moment here.

     • HDCAFriendlyTroll 2.4.2

       5 January 2017 at 9:44 am

       Meh, not Pete’s fault the silly bint doesn’t have a sense of humour.

       • Pat 2.4.2.1

         5 January 2017 at 10:03 am

         what do you mean no sense of humour?….so far she’s made fools of Leitch, Boag , and Devoy….and counting.
         Hilarious!

   • Gabby 2.5

     5 January 2017 at 11:33 am

     Tactics? Are you suggesting the situation was set up?

3. Nick 3

   5 January 2017 at 8:19 am

   Leitch media spokesperson and ‘renter’ Boag now requires media spokesperson…lol

   • Muttonbird 3.1

     5 January 2017 at 8:32 am

     Lol. You know the PR person has screwed up when they need a PR person. Same thing happened to Henry’s PR person, and Key’s PR person (Upston).

4. Muttonbird 4

   5 January 2017 at 8:39 am

   Does Dame Susan Devoy include herself in this appraisal of racistness of Sir Peter Leitch? If so, I think it’s time to install Leitch himself as Race Relations commissioner. After all we want the very least racist person in that position, don’t we?

   Race Relations commissioner Dame Susan Devoy has labelled Sir Peter Leitch “the least racist person I know”.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11776975

   • Gabby 4.1

     5 January 2017 at 11:35 am

     Do any of us really know ourselves? Reeeally?

5. jcuknz 5

   5 January 2017 at 8:43 am

   another storm in a teacup for the summer season with the poli’s on holiday.

6. ropata 6

   5 January 2017 at 8:45 am

   MPI’s fishing quota system has failed. Catch volumes routinely falsified. Actual catch 2.7 times the “official” stats. MPI observer fired for stating the truth. Slave labour fishing fleets taking half of the NZ catch, and plundering the South Pacific.

   http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/16-05-2016/revealed-new-zealands-enormous-60-year-25-million-tonne-illegal-fishing-operation/

   Chinese longlining fishing tracks for 2016. Cook Islanders wonder why there are no fish left.pic.twitter.com/Dmgy3GdxVv

   http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/30-03-2016/how-chinas-illegal-fishing-armada-is-plundering-the-south-pacific/

7. ropata 7

   5 January 2017 at 8:52 am

   Aw, this is nice, I didn’t understand the UK Snoopers’ Charter until Theresa May and David Cameron sang it so nicely

8. ropata 8

   5 January 2017 at 8:57 am

   A useful summary of neoliberalism. Via @Ozlandscapes. pic.twitter.com/ZhG4amAcCd— Deborah Russell (@BeeFaerie) January 2, 2017

   • Olwyn 8.1

     5 January 2017 at 10:45 am

     A succinct summary ropata. Neoliberalism’s status as a formula for colonisation shows up if you consider the likely response to a small nation overtly privileging the public good over the so-called free market and individual responsibility, and adapting the idea of efficiency to improving the lives of citizens rather than reducing the burden on corporations. That country would not be seen as simply following a regular democratic process, but as too provocative to be let get away with it.

     I think that the mania for ensuring that the public good never again gets a foothold will be the thing that brings neoliberalism down in the end. Weakened, divided societies, made up of people who cannot do much apart from administrate and consume, or else subsist as outcasts, are vulnerable societies.

     Here is a man who unabashedly believes in the public good over the market, and who also knows how to make a political play: http://gizmodo.com/bernie-just-printed-a-gigantic-trump-tweet-and-brought-1790767297?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       5 January 2017 at 10:53 am

       All true but neoliberalism was the fight to have in the 1980s and 1990s. Now the power elite has moved on to more insidious methods and goals.

       • Olwyn 8.1.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 11:21 am

         Now the power elite has moved on to more insidious methods and goals.

         I am not as politically educated as you are so I might well be wrong, but I think that the current methods and goals depend upon the same core values, with the focus on making them even more difficult to dislodge.

         • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1

           5 January 2017 at 11:31 am

           Ford cancels US$1.6B Mexico plant; plans $700M Michigan expansion instead.

           Indeed. But Trump is doing it. After three decades of all major political parties ‘kowtowing to the free market’, he’s doing it. He is expressing the politics of sovereignty, economic strength, and national interest.

           Which is simply to say – if the top 5% of a society want a thing to happen, it will happen.

           (This is not to ignore that other parts of his promised programme eg charter schools, more fossil fuel exploitation etc. are highly problematic)

           http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/ford-canceling-plans-for-16-billion-plant-in-mexico-investing-700-million-in-michigan-expansion-instead.html

           • Olwyn 8.1.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 11:54 am

             Yes, and he also stopped a carrier company in Indiana from moving jobs to Mexico. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-announces-celebrates-carrier-deal-in-indiana/

             Bernie Sanders has the right idea: rather than shrinking from Trump and treating him like the stuff of nightmares, he plans to support things like keeping jobs in the US, and fiercely oppose things like cutting cutting social services. He will not win them all, but he ought to win some, especially where Trump looks to be going against his own promises.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 11:56 am

               Bernie just printed out a gigantic Trump tweet

               http://gizmodo.com/bernie-just-printed-a-gigantic-trump-tweet-and-brought-1790767297?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

               • Olwyn …

                 5 January 2017 at 11:59 am

                 Yes, I attached it to my first comment. Way to go Bernie.

                 • Colonial Viper …

                   5 January 2017 at 5:29 pm

                   Doh, that’s where I got the link from originally, Olwyn. I’m such a clutz. Thanks.

                   • Olwyn …

                     5 January 2017 at 5:56 pm

                     😆

             • greywarshark …

               5 January 2017 at 1:41 pm

               Olwyn
               Stopping jobs being shifted to Mexico, stopping desperate Mexicans entering the USA, spells problems of its own.

               Trump needs all his marbles and cunning strategy to see that this is a bad recipe. He needs to help Mexicans invest in themselves employing Mexicans, offer Mexico investment some policy carrots, so there are other industries apart from tourism and drugs.

               The free market and unbridled capitalism distorts our stable world till it becomes the vision seen through warped mirrors, a chamber of horrors. Break the mirrors so you can’t see or think about it is no answer, it is just a free pass for worse and a disgrace to us all for being aware and letting it happen. Something has to be done beyond band-aids.

               • Draco T Bastard …

                 5 January 2017 at 2:09 pm

                 He needs to help Mexicans invest in themselves employing Mexicans, offer Mexico investment some policy carrots, so there are other industries apart from tourism and drugs.

                 And that can only be done by stopping the present delusional ideology of free-trade.

               • McFlock …

                 5 January 2017 at 2:37 pm

                 The really interesting thing that is that three new car lines to serve the US market will give only 700 direct jobs.

                 Trump can intorduce all the tarriffs and threats he wants (while his own products are made overseas or with overseas materials). The fact is that automation is the real threat to production: if Ford’s new self-driving car works autonomously and cost-effectively, a quarter of a million cabbies are out of work. Stick that in your “700 jobs”.

                 • Colonial Viper …

                   5 January 2017 at 5:28 pm

                   700 more new well paid manufacturing jobs than free market adherent Obama could manage.

                   Plus securing all the other thousands of jobs already at the plant.

                   No wonder the Democrats lost the working class white vote in Michigan in 2016. And in 2020 too, my bet, if Trump keeps performing like this.

                   And he isn’t even President yet.

                   • McFlock …

                     5 January 2017 at 10:06 pm

                     Nah.

                     Even if ford thought he had a fair chance of getting 35% tarriffs and screwing up nafta past congress and this impacted their decision, and he fails in his promise to cancel the F35 (which claims to provide 2600 jobs in Michigan alone), the manufacturing jobs are still fucked by automation.

                     Even if they don’t know it.

                   • Macro …

                     5 January 2017 at 10:37 pm

                     “The national unemployment rate in November was 4.4 percent, not seasonally adjusted, down from 4.8 percent
                     a year earlier.”
                     https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.nr0.htm
                     Yeah Obama is F**kin useless!
                     That’s better than National here BTW.

                   • Colonial Viper …

                     5 January 2017 at 11:21 pm

                     Hi McFlock, don’t feel the need to give a damn about working class manufacturing jobs suddenly.

                   • Colonial Viper …

                     5 January 2017 at 11:24 pm

                     Hey Macro,

                     You’re more naive than I thought if you believe the statistics. Instead of peoples lived experiences in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.

                     Because voters in those states got tired of people like you saying THINGS ARE BETTER UNDER OBAMA when their every day experience with their families and their communities showed that you were full of shit.

                     BTW don’t forget to look for the near record low workforce participation rate under Obama. They use that to hide unemployed people they no longer want to count.

                   • Colonial Viper …

                     5 January 2017 at 11:26 pm

                     Mexican news paper El Universal says Trump has already cost 3,600 jobs which were due to move from the US to Mexico

                     Talk about delivering for his rustbelt working class supporters. And Trump isn’t even President yet.

                     http://www.businessinsider.com/mexico-spooked-by-trumps-leverage-in-keeping-jobs-in-the-us-after-fords-pivot-2017-1?IR=T

                   • McFlock …

                     6 January 2017 at 12:40 am

                     Hey cv. Don’t be fooled just because I don’t constantly say everything is doomed and culture change is impossible. I care about a lot of things even without feeling the need to shit on everyone who actually does practical things to achieve change. Well other than voting in fascist demagogues.

                     So before you pretend to know what I care about or why, go fuck yourself.

                   • Clump_AKA Sam …

                     6 January 2017 at 1:43 am

                     The Middle East is critical to the third worlds supply of energy including New Zealand, and will remain so until we’ve eliminated poverty. The Middle East is described as the source of stupendous wealth. It’s clear who is the beneficiary of those resources and it’s not the third world. The Middle East has to be under excessive US control, only those acceptable to US power and leadership have moral or legal rights to conduct programmes in the Middle East but the main concern is the profits have to flow to the US and secondarily to its jr partner the British foreign state. Internal documents from 1945 revealed a conversation between both foreign secretaries and said, profits must be taken from behind the Arab facade meaning British rule, they’re still around and called the Arab facade and there’s a recent documentary called The Killings of Tony Blair.

                     That’s a basic structure of the system, naturally it engenders conflict because the region doesn’t understand why they can’t be the beneficiaries of the resources from that region. We are backwards that way and it causes internal problems of radical nationalism and economic nationalism and so on. For the general public they use different terms like international terrorism or a clash of civilisation and other fancy terms but its economic nationalism which is a strange idea that the resources of a region should benefit the people of that region, and the strange idea there should be policy designed to bring about a broader distribution of wealth and raise the standard of living for the masses.

                     While that goes on things are likely to get worse if you believe 99% of climate scientists. It’s generally said that low energy prices are a fad and there is an oil shortage because we are doubling consumption of oil. Half of the known untapped oil is in the Middle East so they’ll be looming issues in efforts to control the world. They’re is a lot of hype about US domestic production but that was fainted to fake US support for European Union to organises efforts against Russia for a failed US Kew against Ukraine, because Ukraine buys 100% of there gas from Russia. This is also an effort to form an alliance between Europe and America against Iran. Those are prospect that are expected which means the Middle East will be a major centre of conflict, there are new alignments you should keep eyes on between Turkey and Israel which is supposed to keep control of the Palestinians. But these three alignments design has an effect of maintaining the flow profits from New Zealand to America.

                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   5 January 2017 at 6:54 pm

                   Was reading an article the other day (Think I linked to it) which said that the highest reported job in 28 US states was truck driver. If autonomous vehicles work, and they will, then we’re not talking hundreds of thousands of people out of work but millions – and that’s just in the US. The loss of truck driver in NZ will hit thousands.

                   The real problem is capitalism and private ownership. The owners of those autonomous vehicles will make a nice, passive income while the people who used to do the jobs will be struck further into poverty under the present system.

                   • Macro …

                     5 January 2017 at 7:13 pm

                     And then – there is the problem of road rage!
                     😈

                 • Macro …

                   6 January 2017 at 12:07 pm

                   No worries McF Trump has it all sorted!

               • Olwyn …

                 5 January 2017 at 2:39 pm

                 Thinking along much the same lines as you are, Stephen Hawking has said, If communities and economies cannot cope with current levels of migration, we must do more to encourage global development, as that is the only way that the migratory millions will be persuaded to seek their future at home. I agree. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/01/stephen-hawking-dangerous-time-planet-inequality?CMP=fb_gu

           • Olwyn 8.1.1.1.1.2

             5 January 2017 at 12:25 pm

             I just realised I didn’t respond to your claim that Trump is moving away from the neoliberal model. He does seem to be, but it is still very early days. Moreover, New Zealand seems to have put itself in a position that makes moving on hard, with an economy that is now largely dependent on house prices and immigration. I like the idea of rebuilding local manufacturing to a level that would be necessary to get through a disaster, but I don’t know how well supported or even possible that would be. It would have the advantages of starting to move investment away from housing toward productivity, and if successful should give us a bit more leverage as a country.

             • Draco T Bastard …

               5 January 2017 at 1:31 pm

               Moreover, New Zealand seems to have put itself in a position that makes moving on hard, with an economy that is now largely dependent on house prices and immigration.

               The economy isn’t – the financial system is.

               We could crash the financial system and repair the economy at the same time. Would require a lot of work so I doubt if there’d be any unemployment for quite a few years.

           • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1.3

             5 January 2017 at 1:27 pm

             Which is simply to say – if the top 5% of a society want a thing to happen, it will happen.

             Which is what makes capitalism an oligarchy which is simply wrong as that which needs to be done to support the masses isn’t done.

           • millsy 8.1.1.1.1.4

             5 January 2017 at 7:09 pm

             I wonder how much those jobs pay…It has to be pointed out that Trump is more or less anti-union.

     • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2

       5 January 2017 at 11:05 am

       I think that the mania for ensuring that the public good never again gets a foothold will be the thing that brings neoliberalism down in the end. Weakened, divided societies, made up of people who cannot do much apart from administrate and consume, or else subsist as outcasts, are vulnerable societies.

       Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for ‘irreversible collapse’?

       When you celebrate a few people being rich rather than denigrate them as the thieves that they are then society will inevitably collapse.

       • Olwyn 8.1.2.1

         5 January 2017 at 11:40 am

         Thanks for the link Draco. I am not sure I agree that everyone who is rich should be denigrated as a thief (what about great entertainers and such?) but I do think that a society that follows the lines ours does breeds people who are made useless by self-indulgence one one side and by privation on the other. We all need to grapple with the world in some way to gain judgement, which requires both basic materials and surmountable challenges. A medieval castle says, “don’t mess with me. I am able to defend my land and my people”. A modern mansion too often says, “I am, in some inane way, superior and important”. The former comes with a broader social demand, the latter not so much.

         • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.1.1

           5 January 2017 at 1:25 pm

           I am not sure I agree that everyone who is rich should be denigrated as a thief (what about great entertainers and such?)…

           Do great entertainers really work hard enough to warrant multi-million dollar incomes?
           Do their investments available to them from that income justify them having an even higher income?

           High incomes always come from a lot of people paying what appears to be a small amount. But what would happen if all the hundreds of millions who watch Tom Cruise got together and decided that they’d pay him $100k per annum to star in movies? And did that across the board and refused to pay shareholders at all. How many more movies could be made? How many more actors could become stars?

           How many more hospitals could society afford?

           • Olwyn 8.1.2.1.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 2:48 pm

             OK. I seem to remember Ivan Illich saying that limiting the maximum income was more effective than raising the minimum. His ideal was a “convivial” society, and he thought that ever-rising incomes, with everyone trying to catch up, went against that.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 4:21 pm

               Limit personal incomes to $250,000 p.a. after tax – anything over that and you have to spend it on approved charities and causes or you forfeit it.

             • Draco T Bastard …

               5 January 2017 at 6:48 pm

               That’s pretty much the view I hold but I have both a minimum and a maximum income – A UBI and a 100% tax rate at $100k.

       • Pat 8.1.2.2

         5 January 2017 at 2:46 pm

         “Collapse can be avoided and population can reach equilibrium if the per capita rate of depletion of nature is reduced to a sustainable level, and if resources are distributed in a reasonably equitable fashion.”

         only question is how it is determined this is to be achieved.?..that is if it is determined at all.

         • Colonial Viper 8.1.2.2.1

           5 January 2017 at 4:19 pm

           Indeed. You need to slow the card down *before* you leave the cliff.

           Because after you have left the cliff, no amount of stabbing the pedals, flailing with the steering wheel, beeping the horn and changing the radio station makes the slightest bit of difference.

           • Pat 8.1.2.2.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 5:07 pm

             I was wondering more if certain sections hadn’t already decided to let the impending disaster create the new equilibrium for them as opposed to attempting any meaningful change.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 5:24 pm

               Indeed. There’s a reason why the global hundred millionaire class considers NZ a top five “bolthole” for when “SHTF” back home.

         • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.2.2

           5 January 2017 at 6:57 pm

           Well, the free-market isn’t doing it. In fact, I doubt any sort of monetary system can.

           If I’m correct then we’re going to need some sort of way to democratically distributing the nations resources.

           • Pat 8.1.2.2.2.1

             5 January 2017 at 8:11 pm

             and if my suspicion is correct the distribution will be anything but democratic

9. North 9

   5 January 2017 at 9:01 am

   Outrageous that Michelle Boag should dare to bleat about the dissemination given her “barely coffee coloured” observation to a journalist re the young woman on Waiheke Island. “I was being flippant……”. “I didn’t know I was talking to a (journalist)journalist.” http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11776797

   Huh ! Imagine the distress of the young woman repeatedly assaulted by John Key when she realised that Key’s pal the wannabe Rachel Glucina was not in fact a journalist but an undercover operative from Planet Key. All set to do a media hatchet job on her as the victim.

   Leitch racist ? I find that a long bow to draw frankly. His comment misinterpreted ? Possibly. Certainly however Leitch’s “white mans’ island” comment is emblematic of the gentrification of Waiheke and the subliminal racism which of course attends that gentrification. Leitch has bought into that even if unwittingly.

   Accepting Boag’s rationalisation in her “barely coffee coloured” comment is to give kudos to the canard – ‘merely saying what everyone else (allegedly) is thinking’. Hmmm. OK. Let me say that ever since Leitch’s “This Is Your Life” with Paul Holmes I think it was, this is what I’ve been thinking – Leitch presents as a fairly unabashed lickspittle to the rich and powerful in New Zealand.

   Why do I think that ? Because of the stunned looks on the faces of particularly Kiwi Adam Blair but also other Kiwis/Warriors present. As they, Leitch having done his ‘turn’ with them, were put aside for excruciatingly slavish dancing with Holmes and Key.

   Oh well…….good on you Sir Peter, your good works etc. But to hell with you Michelle Boag for your racist elitisim. Some PR person you turned out to be !

   • Muttonbird 9.1

     5 January 2017 at 9:09 am

     “He’s said everything he wanted to say to her.”

     – Boag

     Quite. ‘Get off my island!’, being the thrust of it.

     http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/01/michelle-boag-regrets-coffee-coloured-skin-comment.html

     • Morrissey 9.1.1

       5 January 2017 at 9:28 am

       Boag has been the subject of much loathing on this forum and many others. All of it deserved….

       Open mike 26/07/2015

       https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nz.general/0aZOu-zSrNk

     • Ds 9.1.2

       5 January 2017 at 9:30 am

       Seem like two old whites engaging mouth before brain.q

   • Anne 9.2

     5 January 2017 at 9:34 am

     Oh well…….good on you Sir Peter, your good works etc.

     It always seems to me that the Peter Leitchs of this world are really only playing to their own vanity when they ‘reflect’ loudly on their good works. The true philanthropists never talk about their philanthropy. It gets done quietly behind the scenes without any fuss.

     • Morrissey 9.2.1

       5 January 2017 at 9:47 am

       Al Capone gave millions of dollars to charity. So does that scourge of public education, Bill Gates. So does that gruesome old, racist, sexist, violent boor “Sir” Robert Jones.

       • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 10:22 am

         Don’t forget Pablo Escobar.

       • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.2

         5 January 2017 at 1:12 pm

         Yep. I tend to the view that rich people going on about their giving to charity is try to hide the unethical actions that they’ve had to do to become rich.

   • Morrissey 9.3

     5 January 2017 at 9:44 am

     Leitch racist ? I find that a long bow to draw frankly. His comment misinterpreted ? Possibly.

     He’s not a racist but he tells a Maori woman that Waiheke belongs to white people. You’re extremely indulgent, North.

     • North 9.3.1

       5 January 2017 at 8:14 pm

       Yeah thanks Anne, Morrissey, Maui. I’d always entertained that my acknowledged ‘indulgence’ amounted to nothing more than over-commitment to substances and physically attractive people. But no, clearly. Many thanks for ‘saying what I was always thinking’ ! When it comes to snobs/poor boys made ‘good’, bootstraps, licking John Key’s arse, etc etc etc, I’m taking on the hues of the zealous martinet. For the rest of 2017.

       Poor Old Butcher. He really fucked it up when he got the Boagy Lady on the job. Wonder what she charged him ? Conscience should command her to pay it all back. Conscience ? Well of course that’s fucking weird in connection with that entitled crone.

       • Morrissey 9.3.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 8:36 pm

         Actually North, Leitch has been “fucking up” for years. He was a loud defender of Graham Lowe’s crude and ignorant outbursts about the Warriors having too many Polynesians, and he’s been one of John Key’s most avid supporters.

         He deserves every bit of opprobrium that’s been heaped on his horrible head.

   • mauī 9.4

     5 January 2017 at 10:22 am

     He’s not racist but… another time he tells Mark Hunt and Ray Sefo they’re….

     https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/did-he-get-knighted-mma-fighter-mark-hunt-says-mad-butcher-used-term-coconut-samoans

     Then there’s the time he backed up Murray Deakers use of the N word. He’s racist alright, he can’t hide behind his multicultural support of the Warriors.

     • Colonial Viper 9.4.1

       5 January 2017 at 10:24 am

       Well, he’s an old white guy with residual attitudes and terminology common and left over from a certain generation.

       Is everyone really going to act all surprised and outraged? Shall we enter a round of competitive virtue signalling? I’M LITERALLY SHAKING

       • mauī 9.4.1.1

         5 January 2017 at 11:00 am

         I would expect those kind of words possibly from a World War 2 vet, when words like hori and nip were used, not from someone Leitchs age. Hes only had like 60 years to grow out of it! As an ambassador for Pacific sport too there’s no excuse for him I believe.

         • Colonial Viper 9.4.1.1.1

           5 January 2017 at 11:58 am

           But that’s just the thing. Despite the noise from all parts of the political spectrum, I am almost certain that Leitch doesn’t give a damn about having an excuse for this or that. He’s just who he is and he just does what he does.

           • North 9.4.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 9:47 pm

             You seem to enjoy particular felicity with the horrible bastards CV……we know what Leitch thinks and we don’t need you to tell us. Especially not with the applause you reserve for the horrible bastards. Supreme, unequalled leftie, disaster you.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 10:10 pm

               I know, why doesn’t someone start a petition to strip Leitch of his knighthood. Or some other equally pointless and unpopular bullshit. Then you can sign it to signal to everyone how outraged you are about how deplorable and irredeemable Leitch is.

               • North …

                 6 January 2017 at 8:01 am

                 That petition notion came from you dickhead, not me.

       • Morrissey 9.4.1.2

         5 January 2017 at 11:58 am

         Well, he’s an old white guy with residual attitudes and terminology common and left over from a certain generation.

         Nonsense. My grandfather was older than Leitch, and I never heard him use derogatory language about Maori, either in earnest or in “jest”. Nor did I hear his friends ever talk like that.

         Leitch’s words are disgusting, no matter what the context in which he uttered them.

         • Colonial Viper 9.4.1.2.1

           5 January 2017 at 1:54 pm

           Sounds like you don’t understand the society that your grandfather grew up in. Clue: NZ still had a poll tax against Chinese at the time, and was actively trying to stomp out Maori culture.

           But you know all these things, so why pretend you don’t?

           • Morrissey 9.4.1.2.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 6:54 pm

             Yes, all those terrible things happened, just as terrible things are happening today. It’s not the Chinese that are being discriminated against now, it’s people from the Middle East. And, as the ugly Don Brash phenomenon of 2004 illustrated, there is still a filthy war being orchestrated against Maori.

             Do you think I should assume that you reflexively mouth the racist bilge that fills our airwaves, just because you happen to be living now? Do you attack women and vituperate black people simply because you are living in the Age of Trump?

             I’m telling you for a fact that my grandfather was NOT a racist, and he never said an unkind word—either seriously or jokingly—about Maori. And neither did my grandmother. Nor did my parents.

             It was politicians who brought in the Chinese poll tax, just as it’s politicians bringing about the iniquities of the present day.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 10:12 pm

               This conversation wasn’t about your grandfather until you decided to make it that way.

               • Morrissey …

                 6 January 2017 at 7:45 am

                 You wrote the following highly contentious statement to explain Leitch’s ugly behaviour:

                 he’s an old white guy with residual attitudes and terminology common and left over from a certain generation.

                 To refute that, I pointed out to you that many other—probably MOST other—“old white guys” were not racist, and I used my grandfather as an example. I was refuting a spurious excuse for Leitch’s racism that you brought up, not making it a conversation about my grandfather as you choose to misconstrue it.

       • greywarshark 9.4.1.3

         5 January 2017 at 1:31 pm

         Too true CV – the one thing that this blog is really good at is Outrage. We all need a bit of rage to fuel us up for changes for the better. Pity it gets let out just to cast aspersions, dildos and rotten eggs.

         Keep it for fuel I suggest and feed it though your mind in measured doses, enough to go out and support arguments for better policies, earnest discussions with practical outcomes, support for people grappling with need such as foodbanks and free clothing etc.

         en you can take your muscles and your trailers and make yourself available to shift people, things, for those who are permanently footloose and resource-poor because of our venal economic society. Women could try being less fault-finding, middle class and po-faced and look for helpful ways to promote peoples welfare, having a regular school clinic for nits, encouraging health camps to be set up, taking families for doctor’s visits, paying for people’s prescriptions, helping kids and parents to read better.

         Actually do something, let others know you are doing something to encourage more doing-somethings of a worthwhile nature. Don’t be afraid to air it so as you can claim to be better than a rich guy flaunting his good deeds, just tell others, start a ‘doing, being helpful’ movement which is working away with number of people already but more is needed. The theme hasn’t got enough push to become the in thing in society yet.

         • red-blooded 9.4.1.3.1

           5 January 2017 at 2:55 pm

           There are parts of your comment I agree with greyrawshark (there’s a hell of a lot of outrage on this site…). Having said that, ironically, I find myself pretty pissed off at the sexism embedded in your assumption that men should lift and carry things for people, and women should look after families and such. Plus, why single out women for being “po-faced”? (And BTW, “middle class” applies to men as well as women (duh!). And you seem to assume that women can’t be working class, or bosses, or business owners.)

           Just an observation.

           • greywarshark 9.4.1.3.1.1

             5 January 2017 at 9:21 pm

             Stuff your PCness and sexist filter on comments. It is time to talk frankly about reality not tiptoe around, worrying if some brainwashed people are unable to hear what is said because they have to check that it doesn’t offend somebody’s sensibilities.

             I’m talking about things I know about and describe needs accurately. And by the way men tend to have bigger muscles than women, ever looked at the average woman’s arms, and will usually be welcomed by organisations shifting furniture, books, carting cartons of clothes for opportunity shops etc.

             Men like driving as a rule. So they will also be welcomed if they are of good repute, to deliver meals on wheels etc.

             • Colonial Viper …

               5 January 2017 at 11:34 pm

               How dare you suggest that there might sometimes be real differences between men and women, and that we should not be afraid to recognise that fact! /sarc

       • North 9.4.1.4

         5 January 2017 at 8:40 pm

         “I’M LITERALLY SHAKING” You don’t give a fuck CV and that’s hardly a good basis on which to enter comment. Be different were there any ‘Sino’ attached of course. That’s racist as all fuck to start.

         • Colonial Viper 9.4.1.4.1

           5 January 2017 at 11:32 pm

           You sound like a white man trying to tell me what racism is, and is not. Keep going, I like to be amused.

10. Nick 10

    5 January 2017 at 9:27 am

    Ms Boag says she didn’t know until after making the “coffee coloured” comment that she was on speaker phone to a number of other people (insert: SHIT HOT MEDIA PR SPECIALIST BOAG IN ACTION).

    • ianmac 10.1

      5 January 2017 at 10:07 am

      On Stuff:
      “Hours after the Race Relations Commissioner called Sir Peter Leitch “the least racist person” she knew, she has condemned his comments as “casual racism”.”
      About face?

11. millsy 11

    5 January 2017 at 9:47 am

    Bridger should have really told Butcher Boy to just fuck off. That is really the only way to deal with people like him.

    • Nick 11.1

      5 January 2017 at 9:52 am

      I think she did Millsy , in her own way and I think thats why Butcher got pissed and stood over her.

12. Morrissey 12

    5 January 2017 at 9:54 am

    Conan O’Brien told this monster: “You’ve got nothing to be ashamed of…”
    What do YOU think?

13. JanM 13

    5 January 2017 at 10:04 am

    The most painful aspect of this uproar is to realise how many people (even the apparently well-intentioned) have such a limited understanding of how racism,or sexism, or class discrimination plays out.

    • Gabby 13.1

      5 January 2017 at 11:44 am

      I think it’s very important that somebody leaps forward to educate the benighted proles.

14. Colonial Viper 14

    5 January 2017 at 10:11 am

    Full text and analysis of Syrian cease fire agreement between Syria, Iran and Russia; excludes US involvement

    – Political process for working with agreeable non-extremist rebels outlined
    – US irrelevant
    – Turkish agreement critical as jihadists cannot be resupplied without Turkish co-operation
    – Can Erdogan be trusted (probably not)
    – Kurdish aspirations the meat in the sandwich again
    – Russia gets what it has always wanted: a separation of “moderate” rebels from Wahhabi jihadists, allowing latter to be annihilated and former co-opted into a peaceful political process.

    Whilst it was these fictional negotiations between Lavrov and Kerry which continued to hold the limelight, the real negotiations were going on behind the scenes between the militaries of Russia and Turkey, without the US being consulted or involved.

    Moreover it is now clear from Shoigu’s words that the Turks made a political decision to come to a settlement with the Russians over Syria by October at the latest, so that the discussions which took place during November and December were of an essentially technical nature: determining what territories the groups that would be covered by the ceasefire actually controlled, getting the groups to sign up to the ceasefire plan, and agreeing the technicalities of monitoring the ceasefire and enforcing it.

    Most of the ceasefire plan, the text of which I have provided above, sets out the monitoring and enforcement procedures, and confirms that Turkey has agreed to guarantee the compliance of the seven groups who have signed up to it.

    http://thesaker.is/russian-turkish-ceasefire-plan-for-syria-official-text-and-analysis/

15. Sacha 15

    5 January 2017 at 10:21 am

    Another side to Peter Leitch: https://leilanitamu.com/2017/01/04/my-beef-with-the-mad-butcher/

    • Muttonbird 15.1

      5 January 2017 at 10:54 am

      Wow, that is pretty damning.

      On Susan Devoy, she really isn’t suited to the job at all. Casual, clumsy, and unable to differentiate the personal from the professional. We’ve seen her get into hot water several times.

      National Party appointment, wasn’t she?

      • JanM 15.1.1

        5 January 2017 at 11:08 am

        Yes she was – really good idea wasn’t it, to give an appointment like that to someone who was good at hitting a ball at a wall!
        By the way, someone on facebook just stated the blindingly obvious that if Leitch was an ok person there’s no way he’d have someone like Boag speaking for him. Indeed – birds of a feather, and all that!

        • tc 15.1.1.1

          6 January 2017 at 8:59 am

          Leach shills for this national govt so he gets the use of their awesome PR machine in the shape of helicopter boag.

      • North 15.1.2

        5 January 2017 at 8:23 pm

        Yeah, appointed over the back fence. Talking to next-door-neighbour the super-family-values-super-hypocrite-super-something else-in-fact, guy. What was his name ? The sartorial scream, former lawyer, former Minister of Health.

        • Anne 15.1.2.1

          5 January 2017 at 8:44 pm

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Ryall

    • Morrissey 15.2

      5 January 2017 at 12:02 pm

      Thanks for that, Sacha. Someone should read these words out on the radio….

      I was one of Bill’s three kids always sitting in the back of the old-beat-up-car or hiding under the stands at Carlaw, one of the kids you barely noticed as you said what you liked about who, what and when you liked. A kind of self-appointed-King in Auckland’s rugby league circles. Monied and mouthy and filthy rich. People generally knew not to mess with the Butcher. Because if they did, there was generally something to lose.

      That’s because you are known for your ‘generosity’. You are known for being the guy who cultivates friendship and favour by making big donations, whether in cash or kind to the cause. And you and I both know that when my dad’s compulsive gambling habit had taken over his life (to the point where when he had no job and his second “coconut” wife had left him – yes I remember you calling her that – and he was bankrupt, again), you were one of the few people that gave him a job. Selling meat out of the back of his car for you. I remember that. I remember traipsing around Auckland with dad in his bomb and him pulling over to sell frozen meat to people. Hoping they might buy some so he could pay you back. I don’t know if the arrangement was under the table, but I suspect it was.

      Yup, that was 1990s Auckland – and in league circles no one blinked an eye at Bill doing a bit of work on the side for the Butcher. Cause the thing is you were the King. And your generosity had another name. A name I’ve come to appreciate in my adult years as I’ve encountered more and more people in positions of influence and power. It’s called Patronage. Looking after people so long as they look after you.

16. Colonial Viper 16

    5 January 2017 at 10:42 am

    More Zero Hedge “fake news”: Russia sends naval ships to Philippines for joint exercises

    I wonder how the USN stationed in and around the Philippines feels about this. That CIA wet team must be looking at sorting out Filipino President Duterte any month now so the USA can return common sense to the nation.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-04/russia-sends-two-warships-philippines-joint-naval-drills

    • Gabby 16.1

      5 January 2017 at 11:46 am

      Come ON, Doody Turdy will eventually be knocked off his chopper by some drug dealer who gets sick of paying him off.

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1

        5 January 2017 at 11:55 am

        Possibly. There are people throughout the governmental structures of the Philippines who are part of the nascent narco state. As their survival becomes more at stake, the more extreme the measures they will take against Duterte.

        And the regime change experts from the USA will actively assist them.

17. Morrissey 17

    5 January 2017 at 12:11 pm

    Race Relations Commissioner Susan Devoy defends Donald Trump:
    “I know he’s the least racist person I know in the world.”

    In a statement released this morning, Dame Susan has condemned casual racism.

    “Many of us have said or done things that are hurtful to others without really realising what we were saying is offensive: but that’s not the end of the story. The important thing is being able to recognise when we’ve offended someone, to work to resolve it with mana and to make sure we never do it again.

    “The thing about so-called casual racism is that it doesn’t feel very casual if it happens to you or your family as some of our friends of the darker persuasion have shown us.”

    She said she knew Mr Trump and thought he was a “very good person at heart”, but his actions were offensive to some touchy negroid people and it “needed to be fixed up”.

    Earlier, Dame Susan told RNZ News it was unlikely his comments were meant to offend.

    “I know he’s the least racist person I know in the world and yet what he said was obviously taken as offence by all those young women. But I wasn’t there and I wasn’t part of the conversation. It’s grown real legs, hasn’t it?”

    Dame Susan said Mr Trump often used light-hearted locker-room banter, which could be misinterpreted.

    “The last thing he would have wanted in the world was to offend someone, I know that. Let’s not forget he’s done a lot of great work in terms of race relations in the United States – providing opportunity and building bridges between different cultures.

    “I think it’s generational and culturally different these days and he’s probably licking his wounds today.”

    Dame Susan said what was acceptable 40 years ago was not now.

    “We at the Commission launched a campaign about casual racism, getting people to stand up and address it.

    “The thing to remind ourselves is it’s good to have conversations about these issues but also to remind ourselves that we have to reasonable and rational in our discussions about it too.

    “Everyone’s entitled to have an opinion, but respect each other when you’re doing that.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/321774/'it-doesn-t-feel-very-casual-if-it-happens-to-you'-devoy

    • JanM 17.1

      5 January 2017 at 12:46 pm

      Very clever 🙂

18. adam 18

    5 January 2017 at 1:08 pm

    Worth the snake joke, that said this trump cabinet is looking worse and worse as the days go on.

    • Andre 18.1

      5 January 2017 at 1:41 pm

      Well, the least frightening appointment is an ex-general who earned the nickname “Mad Dog”…

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1

        5 January 2017 at 4:26 pm

        Coming from the political side who put in ineffective shills like Hillary Clinton and John Kerry into the office.

        • North 18.1.1.1

          5 January 2017 at 9:33 pm

          “Another side to Peter Leitch”. Thank you Sacha. Compelling. Absolutely compelling. My heart goes out to you Leilani Tamu, and your dad. Good on you Leilani ! Come to think about it……..Leitch is so John Key. The rich, clay feet, bullshitter. Fuck him !

          What might not appeal Sir Peter is the ‘intelligence’ on Waiheke that you and yours are just slightly, you know…….nouveau riche, gauche, flashy, wannabes. Not “our” kind of people but tolerated because you’re seriously wedged up.

19. BM 19

    5 January 2017 at 1:10 pm

    Best daily blog post ever

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/01/04/a-young-middle-class-maori-woman-bumps-into-an-old-white-working-class-millionaire-at-a-snobby-winery-on-the-republic-of-waiheke-shit-im-not-caring-about-today/

    the follow-up is quite good as well

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/01/05/will-peak-leitch-see-tag-team-celebrity-death-match-between-monty-betham-and-ruben-wiki-vs-ufc-fighter-mark-hunt/

    • Siobhan 19.1

      5 January 2017 at 2:28 pm

      The funny thing about Martyn is he will probably write at least 6 pieces on how this isn’t a story. Just like he obsessed about not caring about Real Housewives of Auckland. He talked about that show so much I almost thought I should watch an episode. Luckily good taste intervened.

20. Colonial Viper 20

    5 January 2017 at 4:54 pm

    The fact that consumerism and materialism was destroying both the fabric of society and the fabric of the environment came to prominence in the 1960s and 1970s.

    Not only are we now 50 years further down this destructive path, I can’t see any new proposals from the Left to do anything more effective to change course.

    Wait until the 500 million new middle class peeps in India and China want their new car.

    [sorry CV, but you are not welcome to comment on my posts at this time. Anyone wants to discuss that, take it to OM – weka]

    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      5 January 2017 at 5:20 pm

      Simply telling the truth like it is.

21. Morrissey 21

    5 January 2017 at 8:29 pm

    More dismal disinformation posing as news tonight.
    TV1 News, Thursday 5 January 2017

    Yet another nasty little propaganda nugget masquerading as a news report tonight on TV1—this time from one of the Clinton-friendly U.S. networks. After accurately reporting how Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has scotched the absurd Democratic Party lie about Russian hacking, the “reporter” wheeled out some floppy-fringed “intelligence analyst” who sneeringly claimed that Assange did not have a clue what he was talking about and the Russians were indeed masterminding everything that happened in the U.S.

    Then the “reporter” intoned ominously:

    “Many people believe Julian Assange is an enemy of the state.”

    The propaganda exercise concluded with a shot of the absurd New York Senator Charles Schumer uttering a dark warning to Trump about crossing the intelligence establishment.

    By the way, anyone interested in shaking off these sleazy servants of the state and finding out something truthful about Assange should have a look at the following….

    • Morrissey 21.1

      5 January 2017 at 8:43 pm

      The U.S. network was ABC. The egregious “report” can be found here…..

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/hacked-democratic-emails-trump-raises-pressure-intelligence-agancies-prove-russia

      • Cinny 21.1.1

        6 January 2017 at 12:14 am

        Far out anything to discredit Julian after his insightful interview with Fox muppet Hannity (whose wana be charade of innocence on some topics cracked me up). Sounds like ABC and TVNZ desperately trying to tone it down, wankers.

        Will have a listen to Noam laters, ty so much for the link Morrissey.

        Not so long ago Trump said Assange should be in jail, seems to have changed his tune of late.

        Julian Assange is a very intelligent human, computer security expert and a sharer of reliable information, he is not a criminal, rather a helpful man whom is educating so many on the realities of the world.

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