Open mike 05/02/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 5th, 2010 - 50 comments
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Topics of interest, announcements, general discussion. The usual rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

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50 comments on “Open mike 05/02/2010 ”

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  1. andy 1
    5 February 2010 at 7:01 am

    The NZ Herald editorial is not to kind to Mr Key about the National Standards Mailout to parents.

    The acceptable course would have been for information to have been drawn up and dispatched by the Ministry of Education under its masthead, following the criteria established by the Auditor-General. Devoid of the distraction and questions raised by the National logo

    Pity they didn’t use a democracy under attack banner 🙂

    • lukas 1.1
      5 February 2010 at 9:07 am

      more right wing bias from that torry paper huh?

      • andy 1.1.1
        5 February 2010 at 9:26 am

        Did you read it? It is criticising the govt for doing something that they in opposition attacked the previous govt for.

        Unfortunately, this material, financed by the taxpayer, features the National Party logo on every page.

        bears a striking resemblance to the sort of election advertising that National criticised the Labour Party for producing under the Electoral Finance Act.

        Democracy under attack anyone? No claims about bias.

    • BLiP 1.2
      5 February 2010 at 10:09 am

      Yes. This having to report back to National Ltdâ„¢ directly rather than the Ministry of Education with any feedback on the so-called Education Standards really is odd. Of course, Its a classic PR tactic whereby any criticism is directed to a central handling office where answers can be manufactured and critics identified. Given past behaviour, I wouldn’t put it past National Ltdâ„¢ to filter the names and emails through Basher Bennett’s office to make sure none of the criticism is coming from “mouthy” beneficiaries.

      A couple of scapegoats, complete with names, income details and personal living situations exposed and then dangled before the talk-back taliban for a public kicking would be a great distraction.

  2. gitmo 2
    5 February 2010 at 7:35 am

    This is just outrageous it’s almost Waitangi day they should be running stories on, um, Waitangi Day.

    This is transparent distraction tactics. If they hadn’t done the editorial on this there would have been an editorial on the debate regarding the national flag. Actually, knowing the Herald it would just have been a big picture of a sea lion or something.

  3. prism 3
    5 February 2010 at 9:20 am

    If you want to be healthy you should eat an apple every day, and have a laugh too we are told.
    Today’s laugh. In the USA there is a disparate group called the Tea Party with allusions to the Boston Tea Party which resulted from dissent about British taxes before USA split from Brit in 1800’s? They’re about to have a meeting addressed by Sarah Palin – elected by TV viewers from the American Political Idol show! She is being paid $US100,000. Grass roots followers are being charged over $US500 to attend.
    The Tea Party muzziness of its followers has been behind the vociferous attacks at meetings over Obama’s health reforms. (There was a wonderful action shot of a woman in one audience. Her jaw might have dislocated because her mouth stretched so wide.)
    Makes me think of Alice in Wonderland’s tea party and the Mad Hatter, which could be replaced by Uncle Sam’s top hat.
    USA people have lost all control over their leading politicians. They have a pseudo democracy but can’t comprehend that and can’t bear the thought of change to their hallowed traditions so “If you keep on doing the same thing then you’ll keep on getting what you’ve always got”.

  4. Ron 4
    5 February 2010 at 9:51 am

    Would butter melt in Tariana Turia’s mouth.
    On NatRad today she she believes that educational issues are driving Maori unemployment. No argument there – but then she goes on to have a go at teachers for not supporting the new standards because their opposition will adversely affect Maori students.
    This from the woman who negiotiated with the government to have Kura EXEMPT from the new standards. More Tory double speak? Or just a confused mind scrambling to rationalise her position supporting an ugly Tory party?

  5. Anne 5
    5 February 2010 at 11:37 am

    @ Ron. I say the latter. She’s contradicted herself so many times now it’s got to be a confused state of mind.

    Has anyone else noticed the hilarious TV film shots of Key marching along parliamentary corridors? He is always surrounded by sycophants and bodyguards as though the world depends on him for survival. It’s not uncommon to see late arrivals belting along at the back trying to catch up before the cameras roll. Contrast that with Helen Clark who was often seen walking quietly on her own to caucus or the debating chamber. It actually says a lot about Key’s real personna and none of it is complimentary.

    • Tigger 5.1
      5 February 2010 at 3:30 pm

      Anne – I was thinking the same thing just last week. I swear, Key has a larger entourage than Mariah Carey. Before we know it he’ll be demanding a room full of puppies, 3 kg of Jet Plane lollies and eight glasses or water (room temperature) at every appearance.

  6. BLiP 6
    5 February 2010 at 11:44 am

    Did anyone here go to the Drinking Liberally in Auckland on Tuesday? Would love to see a report on what was said and how it all went.

  7. Tigger 7
    5 February 2010 at 12:07 pm

    This issue of ‘charging’ the media koha to enter Waitangi needs further discussion.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3295365/John-Key-arrives-at-Waitangis-Te-Tii-marae

    I understand the need to contribute to the cost of running a marae but demanding a payment of media for any nationhood type of event is dangerous territory.

  9. TightyRighty 9
    5 February 2010 at 2:47 pm

    not to many AGW posts anymore know that the bullshit behind the story is revealed. mebbe you should all go on sucking that big hairy ball bag of wrongness, or you could admit you got it wrong and be welcomed back in to the bosom of society.

    • lprent 9.1
      5 February 2010 at 3:01 pm

      You really are a bit of a silly bugger aren’t you. I keep hearing these plaintive noises from the ill-informed who are too damn lazy to look it up.

      In case you hadn’t noticed – I write many of them. I haven’t had a lot of time for posts, so I’ve been doing posts that require less research. So there are 3 unfinished climate change posts sitting around my systems that will come through after the system upgrade is done.

      Similarly rOb probably writes the majority of the others – and he has been on holiday.

      However if you’d taken the simple (you really are sometimes) step of checking the categories for ‘climate change’
      http://www.thestandard.org.nz/category/environment/science/climate-change/

      And the authors pages for those who write on it
      http://www.thestandard.org.nz/author/r0b/
      http://www.thestandard.org.nz/author/admin/

      Now you’ve wasted my time. Go off to where-ever you picked up the stupid line (because this is the second one I’ve answered) and tell them that the next moron who wants to waste my time can spend some time away from the site. Just to make it worth your while, I’ll include you in the package.

      Damn I’m getting grumpy – I really need more sleep. Oh well the weekend is nigh.

      • TightyRighty 9.1.1
        5 February 2010 at 3:06 pm

        jesus lprent. all i was doing was commenting that the frequency had gone down. it used to be rah rah humans killing the earth rah rah till about two weeks ago. which coincidentally is about the same time the IPCC, and NIWA here, were proven to be little more than repeaters. no better than journo’s whose work is so often derided here. what does wrong taste like?

        • lprent 9.1.1.1
          5 February 2010 at 3:26 pm

          If you look – the frequency went down about 3 weeks ago. What you’re probably unaware of is that was when I started doing the work for the site upgrade. This involves using my evenings (often until the early morning) and weekends that I’d usually write posts in. rOb has been on holiday. Many of the other posters have been on or just returned from holiday.

          Consequently the number of posts have dropped in late December and most of January, and those about climate change have dropped further.

          If in doubt – don’t make up a conspiracy theory – assume the simplest explanation. Just like if you blithely just assert an explanation for a phenomenon that isn’t backed by ANY evidence apart from your blind faith, the simplest explanation is that you’re a conspiracy nut.

          It is like the reason I’m irritable is from having reduced sleep and even the sleep I get is crap because of the humid Auckland weather – not because I’ve suddenly got addicted to P. That was roughly the intuitive leap you made – so it got treated accordingly.

          • TightyRighty 9.1.1.1.1
            5 February 2010 at 3:30 pm

            ah no, i assumed that because the cause you were supporting has had it’s foundations royally fucked, rather than flog a dead horse, you quietly gave it up. which could possibly have been correct. thanks though for clarifying that i look forward to a whole series of posts that are based on dodgy data and lazy science

          • lukas 9.1.1.1.2
            5 February 2010 at 5:50 pm

            “If in doubt don’t make up a conspiracy theory assume the simplest explanation. Just like if you blithely just assert an explanation for a phenomenon that isn’t backed by ANY evidence apart from your blind faith, the simplest explanation is that you’re a conspiracy nut.”

            Can you please tell that to Eddie too?

            • lprent 9.1.1.1.2.1
              5 February 2010 at 6:17 pm

              I think that you’re drawing a long bow there. Marty G always says why he thinks a particular theory is more likely. He presents what he thinks is supporting evidence even if it isn’t conclusive.

              If you look carefully at his posts you’ll see that he makes it clear that it is his interpretation rather than simply asserting that he is right. Personally I think he is partially or fully correct far more often than he is completely wrong by a couple of orders of magnitude. Even where he isn’t it usually takes a while to find the right argument to deflate it. Which bearing in mind this is a blog rather than a doctoral dissertation is good enough.

              You just disagree with it and say so in comments. But to me the true conspiracy nut (with apologies to those here who are) is that they assert rather than present. And in TR’s case didn’t bother presenting any evidence worth a damn.

              Now if you really wanted to look for the conspiracy posts, then read Z’s. However they’re usually couched as a form of a angry satirical diatribe which is there more to be relished than to be taken as gospel.

              • lukas …
                5 February 2010 at 7:01 pm

                “But to me the true conspiracy nut (with apologies to those here who are) is that they assert rather than present.”

                Like those who are saying that there is collaboration between DPF and the ninth floor around “spinning” the employment figures?

              • mickysavage …
                5 February 2010 at 7:24 pm

                Open your eyes and read …

            • lukas 9.1.1.1.2.2
              5 February 2010 at 7:32 pm

              Micky Micky Micky. Your Hypocrisy is amazing. You seriously think that someone on the ninth floor calls/txts/e-mails/sends a courier pigeon to DPF on how to spin things? Yet if anyone dares mention connections between this blog and Labour all hell breaks lose.

              I am sure that DPF does have communication with National MP’s just like I am sure Labour MP’s would have some communication with some of the authors here, to suggest that they tell him how to spin things is laughable. If you believe that, I recommend you pay a visit here… http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/ there is pleanty more going on that would scare you into doubling the amount of tin foil in your hat.

              • mickysavage …
                5 February 2010 at 7:40 pm

                Micky Micky Micky. Your Hypocrisy is amazing. You seriously think that someone on the ninth floor calls/txts/e-mails/sends a courier pigeon to DPF on how to spin things?

                Yep. Except I am sure that the courier pigeons are spared.

                Yet if anyone dares mention connections between this blog and Labour all hell breaks lose

                It does not. This blog has significant links to Labour supporters and Labour critics. Makes it all the more interesting to read. All views are expressed, even the critical ones.

                I am sure that DPF does have communication with National MP’s just like I am sure Labour MP’s would have some communication with some of the authors here

                Guaranteed on both counts. The authors here are rather more critical.

                to suggest that they tell him how to spin things is laughable.

                Why did it take him so long to comment on the unemployment figures. This is not some arbitrary statistic that does not matter. This is peoples lives and their childrens’ lives going down the gurgler. It is really, really important and they do not give a damn.

                Also read his stuff on climate change. He keeps on saying that he believes it is happening but then he launches into dog whistle posts that appease the climate change deniers.

                there is pleanty (sic) more going on that would scare you into doubling the amount of tin foil in your hat

                I do not usually wear a hat and when I do there is no tinfoil in it.

              • lukas …
                5 February 2010 at 8:06 pm

                “It does not”

                bah!

                “Why did it take him so long to comment on the unemployment figures. This is not some arbitrary statistic that does not matter. This is peoples lives and their childrens’ lives going down the gurgler. It is really, really important and they do not give a damn.”

                Have you asked him that?

                What is amazing is when you follow it up with this comment…

                “Funny how lefties have holidays and wingnuts go at it all year round ”

                So DPF did not post as quickly as you would have liked. Going by his post, he has trouble accessing the stats NZ website. To suggest that there is a conspiracy there as Eddie and others did this morning is ridiculous.

                “I do not usually wear a hat and when I do there is no tinfoil in it.”

                Good… apparently wearing a hat has links to baldness…. must forget to mention that to my Mother in Law.

              • mickysavage …
                5 February 2010 at 8:16 pm

                Going by his post, he has trouble accessing the stats NZ website

                There are a myriad of sites with the information on them. DPF’s saying that a particular site was down so he could not comment is, well, rather weak.

              • lukas …
                5 February 2010 at 8:22 pm

                “There are a myriad of sites with the information on them. DPF’s saying that a particular site was down so he could not comment is, well, rather weak.”

                So the only plausible explanation was that he was waiting to be fed lines from National Party HQ… here that twang? That was the sound of the rather long bow you had already drawn snapping.

              • mickysavage …
                5 February 2010 at 8:29 pm

                Standard troll tactic.

                If faced with a really bad statistic, like, the unemployment rate in the country is really really bad and good old JK promised it would be good look for any, any angle to suggest that he did not promise things will be good but rather use any sort of line to argue about anything else.

                The nats have been silent about the unemployment rate. DPF has been silent about the unemployment rate.

                I do not otherwise give a F about it but they lied themselves into power. JK suggested that things would be better but their decisions have made things worse.

                He should come out and say that we need more unemployment so that the really rich can get even richer.

                Then we can have a proper election campaign.

              • lprent …
                6 February 2010 at 12:39 am

                just like I am sure Labour MP’s would have some communication with some of the authors here

                Very little. Mostly we seem to be on their e-mail lists which occasionally yield some nuggets. But generally we just read Red Alert.

                There are only a few of us who are actual members of the Labour Party (myself, rOb, and rocky (most of the time)) and who do go to meetings (myself and rOb).

                There are some bits of information that arrive at thestandard’s e-mail. But they come from all over the political spectrum.

          • mickysavage 9.1.1.1.3
            5 February 2010 at 7:33 pm

            Funny how lefties have holidays and wingnuts go at it all year round …

            • lukas 9.1.1.1.3.1
              5 February 2010 at 7:38 pm

              lol, yet more hypocrisy from Micky.

            • lprent 9.1.1.1.3.2
              6 February 2010 at 12:37 am

              Yeah, I’ve come to the conclusion that many wingnuts don’t work. Or if they work then they’re paid to blog.

              • TightyRighty …
                6 February 2010 at 11:40 am

                shit LP, i work my ass off. but i can multi-task, so i use what time i have left in the day to be “a wingnut”. god leftards are so condescending.

              • lprent …
                6 February 2010 at 1:32 pm

                Ummm I had the impression that you are at uni from your discussion with rodger nome.

                Multi-tasking isn’t really an option for programmers. Each interruption of concentration (eg phone calls) causes drops in the in-memory structures. We don’t multi-task because it limits your ability to write good code. What we do is schedule. It means that I can process moderation scans or read e-mail or read websites while I’m waiting for a build because I don’t have to think particularly.

                Anyway, I bet you don’t run a blog in your spare time.

  10. walter 10
    5 February 2010 at 4:32 pm

    @ tighty

    “not to many AGW posts anymore know that the bullshit behind the story is revealed” ………..”you could admit you got it wrong”

    If everything the IPCC have ever said is wrong because of a few errors – how many errors do I have to find in the Bible before that document is “royally fucked” as you so eloquently put it?

    Please, a ballpark figure will do….two, three, seven?

    • TightyRighty 10.1
      6 February 2010 at 11:47 am

      i suppose you could call the bible the gospel. but really bill, when it’s science and the changes it recommends are life changing, you think they would at make sure the assertions made are TRUE. not bullshit. if one error is involved then whole SCIENTIFIC document is wrong. why? because obviously peer review amounts to getting a friendly chum to stake his reputation on it. because there is obviously little in the way of ethics up at the IPCC. because the data they have put together to make this crap has been proven to be manipulated, not only that, admittedly manipulated. a long hard look needs to happen at all the science behind this movement. if it comes out, and it’s still strongly pointing to humanity being behind global warming, i will eat my hat. but, because they can’t prove shit, i’m fairly sure it will remain on my head.

      • BLiP 10.1.1
        6 February 2010 at 12:19 pm

        Hehehehe – the lolz continue – UpTightWhite has another unreferenced, red-faced, bald-headed, silly old man’s rant about science and the Bible but cites Roy Spencer!!

        What a fucking joke!!

      • lprent 10.1.2
        6 February 2010 at 1:23 pm

        if one error is involved then whole SCIENTIFIC document is wrong. why?

        That is utter bullshit at many levels. Read this article by the Economist about what the IPCC reports look at. You can get the same stuff in the preface for the reports, but this is probably easier for you to digest.

        It is widely believed the IPCC looks only at peer-reviewed studies, but the panel’s guidelines do allow information from elsewhere, as long as it is critically assessed and has proper references.

        To accept a role for grey literature at the IPCC, provided it is properly and critically assessed by the authors, is not to say that peer-reviewed publications should not dominate the assessments. They should. But to allow nothing but peer-reviewed literature would not only cut the IPCC off from some relevant material, it could also help well-placed insiders to marginalise opinions they do not approve of.

        In essence the drum that you’re banging on that is that you know little or nothing about the IPCC process. Similarly it appears that the authors of the links you provided earlier have little idea as well.

        Similarly even peer reviewed scientific papers are expected to have errors. The data may not be reproducible, the conclusions may be untenable, etc. Which is why they are published. It is for other people in the field to confirm or attack the papers. The Economist just documented one of these in the science pages about CFS (damn can’t see the link).

        Do some research about research on science so you don’t look so much like a dick – please please…

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