Open mike 05/04/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:55 am, April 5th, 2014 - 70 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

70 comments on “Open mike 05/04/2014 ”

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  1. karol 1
    5 April 2014 at 7:33 am

    Never underestimate the fashion industry for trying to jump on any initiative that they can embrace as an upcoming money earner. But, if this is something a bit more spontaneous from well off young men, is it a sign they are keen to embrace and flout wealth and status – to promote themselves as some rising aristocracy?

    Once all classes embraced denim and (alleged) casual attire as a sign that class no longer exists, Now some are attempt to promote class privilege?

    • Zorr 1.1
      5 April 2014 at 10:45 am

      urg – it makes me sick reading some of that stuff

      But hey, at least it’ll be easy to tell who will be going up against the wall when the revolution comes? 😛

  2. Ad 2
    5 April 2014 at 8:28 am

    I’m not entirely sure why, but I woke up early and felt like we’re going to win.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1
      5 April 2014 at 8:29 am

      Me too. I love the first day of the football season!

    • karol 2.2
      5 April 2014 at 8:32 am

      It’s going to be a long day. You could have used the extra hour in bed. Tomorrow you’ll probably wake even earlier.

      • veutoviper 2.2.1
        5 April 2014 at 9:03 am

        LOL. You just reminded me that daylight savings ends at 2am tomorrow morning.

    • tc 2.3
      5 April 2014 at 9:54 am

      Its very winnable if the turnout lifts from the 67% in 2011.

      encourage everyone to vote as the mantra from the msm will continue to be the same as 2011 being that the polls say nats will win, cunliffe is tricky, the greens are communists and KDC is hitler reincarnated.

  3. Bearded Git 3
    5 April 2014 at 9:17 am

    The Nats must be real worried about KDC to continue this kind of smear.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11232532

    • tc 3.1
      5 April 2014 at 9:37 am

      Yes its almost as if they know that KDC has the evidence and probably images to prove Johnny boy has been lying yet again in his use of state devices for political means.

      Why else would they be going so hard to devalue him.

      • veutoviper 3.1.1
        5 April 2014 at 10:09 am

        “Yes its almost as if they know that KDC has the evidence ..”

        There have been a number of people who have recently commented here that they think KDC does not have the evidence – and that if he had, he would have released it already.

        There is that possibility, but having followed the KDC situation quite closely because of its unique legal complexities and its ramifications, I find it unlikely that he does not have some form of evidence that Key knew about him much earlier than the day before the raid, as Key claims. KDC has repeated said and tweeted that he has evidence; and I do not believe that his extensive and highly qualified team of legal advisors would have allowed him to repeatedly claim this if they did not have some evidence that they holding back as they are intending using this in the extradition proceedings.

        PS – IIRC KDC tweeted in late January/early Feb something to the effect that Warren Tucker, head of the SIS (until end of April when Kitteridge takes over), was involved in briefing Key. This tweet appeared to go unnoticed at the time, and I don’t have time right now to search his extensive tweets to recheck this.

        • Stephanie Rodgers 3.1.1.1
          5 April 2014 at 11:05 am

          This one?
          https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/439218686969126912

          (You can use Topsy.com to search through a specific user’s Twitter feed for keywords.)

          • veutoviper 3.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2014 at 11:21 am

            That’s the one. Thanks Stephanie. My memory is not too bad; timing off slightly.

            And also thanks for the Topsy.com tip. I am a novice with Twitter; don’t belong/use, but find it a useful tool (sometimes).

            • Anne 3.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2014 at 3:00 pm

              When you think about it, it is the job of the SIS director to keep the Prime Minister of the day informed of any upcoming event – whether they’re directly or only indirectly involved.

              I wonder how the director felt watching him on the telly lying through his teeth then? He can’t comment of course, but it must have left him feeling uncomfortable. At least I damm well hope it did!

    • ianmac 3.2
      5 April 2014 at 9:45 am

      Hitler condemned and burnt books. Thomas condemns a book and the owner.
      Is Thomas so different in principle from the actions of the Hitler?
      I have written a comment to the Herald on those lines re the Thomas/National post.

      • Disraeli Gladstone 3.2.1
        5 April 2014 at 10:41 am

        Oh for crying out loud. This is the argument that most frustrates me. It’s like we lose all concepts of subtleness when this type of conversation comes up.

        No one is saying that Kim Dotcom can’t own the book. We’re not saying that it should be burned. We’re not saying that people who own Mein Kampf should be thrown into prison.

        All that is being said is that people should perhaps judge a person who decide to buy a signed copy of it for something besides being a historical researcher. Just as Dotcom has the right to buy it, we have the right to judge him for it.

        But no, there’s a lot of crows flying around in the sky, you keep building that straw-man.

    • veutoviper 3.3
      5 April 2014 at 9:46 am

      My reaction also, BG. A lightweight and shallow piece, as is this (imo failed) attempt at spoofing KDC also in the opinion section today.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11230943

    • David H 3.4
      5 April 2014 at 4:37 pm

      but this fools 5 days late. The storm in a teacup is all over before he got to write about it, what a shame. All together now AHHhh

  4. veutoviper 4
    5 April 2014 at 9:26 am

    I decided to make one of my rare visits to KB this morning and found this posted in General Debate

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yfAeMtcURg0

    Comical Ali – oh the memories! A light spot in a very sad situation. I wonder what happened to him? IIRC the last I heard was that he left Iraq and was in one of the Arab countries.

  6. Bearded Git 6
    5 April 2014 at 9:45 am

    Colon Craig going for ex-Destiny candidates. Labour should shout about this if Key tries to gift him a seat.

    This from Dom Post today:

    “Conservatives name two candidates

    Colin Craig’s Conservative Party has named two South Auckland candidates, Edward Saafi and Elliot Ikelei. Saafi, who has previously sought selection for National and the Destiny Party, will stand in Mangere, while Ikelei will stand in Manurewa.

    The Conservative Party has been targeting the South Auckland seats and believes it can pick up National and Labour voters disaffected with the major parties over gay marriage and other issues.”

  7. travellerev 7
    5 April 2014 at 9:50 am

    This morning an article appeared int the NZ Herald. A Lobby group wanted to lower the $ 10 million investment to attract more rich people to NZ. John Key went to China recently and it appears a lot of what are called “naked” officials are keen to leave China as the plebs are raising their pitch forks in order to pry some of that filthy lucre back from their loving leaders. I can’t help but wonder what John Key has been talking about while in China?

    • tc 7.1
      5 April 2014 at 9:58 am

      Probably about donations to his favourite charity, himself.

    • Tracey 7.2
      5 April 2014 at 4:29 pm

      if we are going to do favours for foreign developers who dont want to meet english language requirements, how do we ensure they are around within the building act ten year period in case they build crap?

  8. kiwigunner 8
    5 April 2014 at 10:00 am

    I wonder how many school boards of trustees understand that they are quietly being replaced by these so called executive principals? Schools run by their communities will soon be a thing of the past and the new boot boys will ensure strict adherence to govt policy like nationals standards, a narrow testing based curriculum and a do as you are told one size fits all system. Is that what parents want for their kids?

  9. Jrobin 9
    5 April 2014 at 10:57 am

    Did anyone else watch The Nation. Shane Jones is certainly playing a dangerous game. For every male potential voter he has just impressed though are a whole lot of more diverse swinging voters who are totally put off by his macho posturing. Sue Kedgely summed up the negatives. Gower of course emphasising the nanny state aspect of his comments on Lotto. Is this Labour strategy or just Jones wanting to go into coalition with NZFirst and speaking to his fans. Jones excellent fight with Progressive Enterprises unfortunately got lost in the midst of these other distractions.
    Anyway we’ve never had a more interfering and authoritarian Government than this one. Constant bullying of ordinary citizens in favour of big business interests. A dictatorial attitude to education, allowing us to be spied on, making protests on oil drilling illegal, takeover of University Councils, beneficiary bashing, arresting Student Loan debtors at airports etc etc. The average overworked kiwi may have slept through these though and wake up instead full of outrage at Jones comments on Lotto. And why did he not challenge Gower on Labour being at 29% in polls. That was about four polls ago. The situation has shifted back to neck and neck between left right blocs. Gower bouncing up and down on his own biased commentary is becoming farcical.

  10. tricledrown 10
    5 April 2014 at 11:04 am

    Destiny has been funded by the National party to the tune of $800,000 in the past to buy their
    Votes. National are. Sneaking around the fundamentalist churches on the quite getting their leaders to promote National at congregaytions.
    Even as National promoted the gay marriage bill.
    Exclusive bretheren tricks again.

    • alwyn 10.1
      5 April 2014 at 2:08 pm

      Do you have a reference for this claim?

    • Tracey 10.2
      5 April 2014 at 4:32 pm

      link please

    • fisiani 10.3
      5 April 2014 at 9:45 pm

      Making a wild accusation like that means that you have to show some proof. You are not using hyperbole but making a specific claim which I know to be false. No such payment has ever been made. Apologise.

      • Stephanie Rodgers 10.3.1
        5 April 2014 at 10:14 pm

        I commend the calls for tricledown to substantiate their claim, but I also have to note fisiani’s adamant tone. Tell us, fisiani, exactly how close are you to the Destiny Church’s financial team that you can be so certain?

        • fisiani 10.3.1.1
          5 April 2014 at 11:16 pm

          What makes you think I have anything to do with Destiny? I have made no such claim. It appears that any scurrilous claim against National can be made with impunity. A specific figure has been claimed with no backing. I am the third person to ask for a link. I suspect however that someone who cannot spell congregation may not be the brightest.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 10.3.1.1.1
            6 April 2014 at 10:59 am

            fisiani, you plainly said ‘You are … making a specific claim which I know to be false. No such payment has ever been made.’ I have merely asked how you can be 100% certain no such payment has been made. It’s very difficult to prove a negative statement like that, so the most probable explanation is that you are affiliated with Destiny or their finances in some way.

            As to tricledown’s statement, it’s possible they’re referring to the $860,000 of government funding paid to Destiny for social programmes. It’s not quite the same thing that they implied in their comment, but could give some people food for thought:
            http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5111665/Govt-gave-860-000-funding-to-Destiny-Minister

    • Awww 11.1
      5 April 2014 at 11:42 am

      A study conducted by the Medical University of Graz in Austria found that the vegetarian diet, as characterised by a low consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol, due to a higher intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products, appeared to carry elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health problems such as depression and anxiety.

      The issue is with the study – wheat is dangerous, grains are better but not optimum and most fruits would spike blood sugar.

      Remove the wheat, tweak the fruit intake and take out sugar and you have a healthy diet. Wheat Belly Blog is a good information source. Don’t take the governments word for it, try it out by researching Wheat Belly the book by Dr Davis + his blog and you will see.

      Especially important for those with inflamatory conditions such as asthma or pain but a must if you are to be really healthy over the long term.

    • weka 11.2
      5 April 2014 at 11:54 am

      At least that article links to the actual study (none of the articles I looked at on google yesterday did).

      From the study report

      Our results have shown that vegetarians report chronic conditions and poorer subjective health more frequently. This might indicate that the vegetarians in our study consume this form of diet as a consequence of their disorders, since a vegetarian diet is often recommended as a method to manage weight [10] and health [46]. Unfortunately, food intake was not measured in more detail, e.g. caloric intake was not covered. Hence, further studies will be necessary to analyze health and its relationship with different forms of dietary habits in more detail.

      Looks like the MSM is still illiterate when it comes to medical science. Their reporting is negligent at best. Dumb fucks.

      • Belladonna 11.2.1
        5 April 2014 at 1:07 pm

        The last study these people did showed the complete opposite and espoused the benefits of a meat free diet. There are heaps of reliable studies on the benefits of veganism online. Start by watching Forks Over Knives which is online or reading The China Study if you want some research from well qualified researchers rather than the rubbish from this study.

        • weka 11.2.1.1
          5 April 2014 at 1:14 pm

          Plenty of evidence that shows eating meat is healthy too, or that being vegan puts one at risk. Or the opposite.

          The point I was making wasn’t that eating meat or not is right or wrong, but that we are really bad at doing research on diet and really, really, really bad at reporting it. Which is why people like you insist that the world should be vegan when the evidence shows that many people would do badly on a vegan diet. Or the paleo crowd insist that we’d all better off on no carb/high meat protein diets, when that’s patently no possible or desirable or healthy for many (despite being great for others).

          There is no one size fits all, and the sooner we get our heads around that the better.

          (betting I can pick holes in Forks over Knives, or the China study too).

          • marty mars 11.2.1.1.1
            5 April 2014 at 1:44 pm

            From a sustainable planet point of view is eating meat justified. We need to think differently about the land and water and the factory farming practices that commodify living entities into food units and destroy our environment. Personally i think the violence in our society (to/between people/countries) is related to our treatment of animals but it is difficult to know which is the chicken and which is the egg.

          • bad12 11.2.1.1.2
            5 April 2014 at 4:23 pm

            Yep weka, there are a number of the major vitamins and minerals that CANNOT travel round the body doing their various functions that require FATS as the mode of transport,

            So, while vegans might be eating all the required dietary intake of these vitamins without the fats to carry the nutrients they simply pass them by way of bowel movement down the toilet,

            As at least one of the major group vitamins that require such a mode of transport is one that supports brain function it then becomes easy to see why a study has shown up a less than feeling good factor in those that are strict vegans,

            While raw nuts and avocados are a good source, nearly the only source, that vegans are going to source any fats from their daily intake of such nits and avacados would have to be at least 20% of their daily diet by volume to ensure the bodies need for fat was supplied enough to transport the vital vitamins and minerals around their bodies,

            http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/vitamins_and_minerals.htm
            http://www.nutristrategy.com/nutritioninfo2.htm

            There are still some that do not buy into the ‘animal fats are bad for us argument’, simply arguing that it is the modern farming methods that are altering the food we eat,

            http://www.drwilson.com/articles/FATS.htm

            Interesting in the link above, besides all the info on nutrients, is the fact that we can eat an almost fat free vegan diet and still add weight to our bodies obviously suggesting that the body can convert vegetable matter to fat and store it,

            i am coming to the conclusion,having adopted a vege/fish diet that the real arbiter of how healthy we are when diet is the indicator is not found by excluding any particular food group but is simply defined by a far far simpler calculation,

            That calculation i suggest is simply one of food in energy out, if we can match exactly(within reason), the amount of energy we burn with the amount of food we ingest then there may be very little left such as calcium able to be laid down as harmful plaque in our arteries…

  12. tricledrown 12
    5 April 2014 at 11:27 am

    No Bull nakered man.
    Even the reseacher has admitted that his research is not very robust.
    Where the Latest research shows that 7 plus a day helpings of fruit and veges is going to reduce the chance of getting cancer or heart disease by 42%.
    Balanced diets moderation in meat.

  13. ianmac 13
    5 April 2014 at 11:36 am

    Review of funding decision says two panellists could have unduly influenced other members’ scoring. (Problem Gamblers funding.)

    ‘…..Two of the six panel members who made the shock decision to stop funding the Problem Gambling Foundation had conflicts of interest, a review has found….

    …But the review found that, in eight of the 13 regions, the panel selected providers “ahead of providers whose proposals had scored higher in the proposal evaluation results”.

    Furthermore, the panel provided “no documentation for the method used by the panel to moderate the proposal evaluation results”.

    So much for the trumpeted clarity of funding review.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11232557

    • George 13.1
      5 April 2014 at 11:38 am

      in eight of the 13 regions, the panel selected providers “ahead of providers whose proposals had scored higher in the proposal evaluation results”.

      How incredibly dodgy. This stinks.

    • Awww 13.2
      5 April 2014 at 11:44 am

      WTH?? This is an outrage.

  14. Morrissey 14
    5 April 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Question: “Are there any real democracies?”
    Answer: Yes, but not if the United States has anything to do with them.

    After the eleven o’clock news this morning, Kim Hill had a very interesting talk about a range of topics with thespian Yannis Simonides. Unlike the brain-dead, tanned, coke-snorting halfwits that infest Hollywood, this guy actually reads books, thinks deeply, and has something interesting to say. At one point, the vexed subject of democracy was raised. Simonides commented on the unsatisfactory state of democracy in Greece, prompting Kim Hill to ask: “Are there any real democracies?”

    Sadly, however, she didn’t give him any time to answer and sped onto the next question. I sent off an email in the usual fashion….

    “Are there ANY real democracies?”

    Dear Kim,

    You asked Yannis Simonides whether he could think of any real democracies. Unlike incurious, poorly read Hollywood celebrities like Kevin Spacey and Jared Leto, Yannis Simonides, judging by the considered tone of his discourse, seems to have thought deeply about many issues. I’m sure if he had been given time to think about it a little more, he would have given the example of Venezuela.

    Unfortunately for Venezuela’s democracy-loving people, they are currently under the gun of a democracy-hating superpower to the north. Time will tell if it will crush this example of South American democracy like it crushed democracy in Guatemala, the Dominican Republic and Chile, to name just a few of the “troublemakers” it has dealt to in its “backyard.”

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1
      5 April 2014 at 2:37 pm

      Question: “Are there any real democracies?”
      Answer: Yes, but not if the United States has anything to do with them.

      US against Venezuela: Cold War Goes Hot

      Political analysts are paying attention to the timing of America’s efforts to replace the government in Venezuela and Ukraine. Washington wants to show the world that a superpower is still capable of directing the course of events in different parts of the world in whatever direction it needs. Obama would like to conclude his presidency with spectacular victories in Eastern Europe and Latin America: turning Ukraine into a satellite state, which would ensure America’s military presence on Russia’s borders, and carrying out a significant regime change in Venezuela in order to put paid to all independent Latin American integration projects…

      Of course, that could just be more misreporting but considering the US’s actions in overthrowing regimes it doesn’t like over the last century or so…

    • ExKiwiforces 15.1
      6 April 2014 at 6:43 pm

      It’s been report that Mr Putin wants Finland back because it was a mistake to give Finland its independence in the 1917 armistice with Germany and I also heard (now this could’ve been a April Fool’s Day joke) that there is a petition calling for that Russia demands the return of Alaska as it was a mistake to sell it to the USA after the last Crimean War in the late 1800’s.

      To most native Russians the Baltic nations, the eastern part Poland have been and always should n be a part of the Russia Empire. It’s no wonder the Poland are asking NATO to station 10,000 troops in Poland and those eastern European nation have very long memories when it comes to Russia.

  16. marty mars 16
    5 April 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Wise words from Neil Young on Kurt Cobain

    ”Well, you know, it’s a hard thing to deal with,” Young said. ”I guess Kurt felt too much. I think it’s sad that he didn’t have anybody to talk to that could’ve talked to him and said, ‘I know what you’re going through, but it’s not too bad. It really isn’t bad. Just (expletive) blink and it will be gone. Everything will be all right. You’ve got a lot of other things to do. Why don’t you just take a break? Don’t worry about all these (expletive) who want you to do all this (expletive) you don’t want to do. Just stop doing everything. Tell them to get (expletive) and stay away.’ That’s it. That’s what I would have told him if I had the chance. And I almost got a chance, but it didn’t happen.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/9906001/Twenty-years-on-musicians-remember-Kurt-Cobain

    Pity it didn’t happen but wasn’t meant to be. Love their music.

    Come as you are
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vabnZ9-ex7o

  17. Kahukowhai 17
    5 April 2014 at 1:45 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9907383/Henderson-gets-apology-for-email-bungle

    Tell you what Henderson, paying back the $140 million would be a good start, have you paid anything back yet? How is it believable that your business activities could have incurred such an enormous debt and you could be considered a credible businessman?

  18. Penny Bright 18
    5 April 2014 at 2:50 pm

    Seen this?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9907241/Bankss-lawyer-applies-for-discharge

    In my considered opinion, this is DESPERATE stuff from a ‘cornered rat’?

    (As it were – meant of course in a caring (to rats) way)

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151956813471790&set=a.435980066789.221068.727511789&type=1&theater

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

  19. Penny Bright 19
    5 April 2014 at 3:14 pm

    How many folks are aware of ‘The Financial Secrecy Index’?

    Secrecy is an essential ingredient for corruption.

    NZ is ranked 48th.

    http://www.financialsecrecyindex.com/introduction/fsi-2013-results

    errrr….. wouldn’t you think given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – that we arguably should be the MOST ‘transparent’ and the LEAST financially secret?

    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

    Does that mean that Transparency International’s ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – is actually a CROCK – and not worth the paper upon which it is written?

    That’s my considered opinion.

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    • Chooky 19.1
      5 April 2014 at 10:00 pm

      +100 Penny…corruption is the crux of the matter under this NACT government !…..they are trading on all our yesterdays when New Zealand was NOT so corrupt …..because we are perceived to be so CLEAN is probably the very reason why we are now a magnet for corruption

      ….Agreed incredibly the index does seem to be a ‘CROCK’!…maybe it is CROOKED …or has been CORRUPTED..!!!!!…or maybe they just think we are stupid….an investigation is called for by John Campbell TV3

  20. amirite 20
    5 April 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Awww it’s touching how much effort the MSM is putting in to help their mates National get reelected. Now they are trying to pin any interest rate rise on Labour and Greens ‘spending’ policies. Who cares that the Nats heaped up $70+ billion debt already, eh?
    It’s getting ridiculous really.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9907509/Nationals-fiscal-lockdown-a-risk

  21. captain hook 21
    5 April 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Honiara, Solomons greatest natural disaster? No. Deafforestation is a man made disaster.
    welcome to the monkey house.

  22. Draco T Bastard 22
    5 April 2014 at 7:00 pm

    How economics became a science

    Economics has become the secular equivalent of religion. It includes an entangled network of scriptures (textbooks), disciples (students) and preachers (professors), trained to believe without questioning the supremacy of the free market and devotedly working to prove it in each and every context, defending it against non-believers. Like the Church and the priests before them, establishment economists will not change on their own. They can only become obsolete, relics of the past, as the world around them changes. And fortunately this seems to be happening sooner rather than later.

    • Murray Olsen 22.1
      5 April 2014 at 8:20 pm

      The way economics is carried out, it’s patently not a science. Even though there can be problems with the way it’s used, Popper’s idea of falsifiability is often useful. With economics, nothing is ever considered to be falsified. If something doesn’t work, they do it again, twice as hard. They never accept that the hypothesis might be wrong. It has far more to do with psychiatric disorder than it does with science.

      • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1
        5 April 2014 at 9:27 pm

        Personally, I think it’s got more to do with politics than science. Today’s economics is used to justify capitalism and inequality despite the evidence.

        • Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1
          6 April 2014 at 5:48 am

          An economist is the kind of scholar that in the company of mathematicians pretends to be a philosopher, and in the company of philosophers pretends to be a mathematician.

          • Murray Olsen 22.1.1.1.1
            6 April 2014 at 11:04 pm

            I love that.
            An elegant way of saying confidence trickster or fraudster.

  23. Philj 23
    5 April 2014 at 8:55 pm

    Xox
    Economics is a pseudo science. A dodgy theory that only sheep believe is true.

  24. geoff 24
    5 April 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Here’s a comment from under a ken loach article in the guardian.


    What good is it to be unelectable? We’ve been here before, many times, since the Seventies; a spin-off group of high-minded idealogues aghast at traditional Labour’s selling-out. None of them has ever achieved anything.
    Sorry – one of them has. It was that group who span-off rightwards to form the SDP.
    Otherwise, though, any Labour spin-off is doomed to impotent squawking on the sidelines.
    I wish it wasn’t; I’d love to see a real socialist party with a real chance, of government, but it ain’t going to happen. To see why, plonk a copy of the Morning Star and the Daily Mail together on a bus seat, and see which one gets picked up and read.

    It doesn’t completely translate to NZ but there is some resonance.

  25. North 25
    5 April 2014 at 10:44 pm

    Shane Jones on The Nation. Sorry but I just can’t deflect these words flooding into my mind –
    “Snake Oil Salesman”.

    • Stuart Munro 25.1
      6 April 2014 at 4:22 pm

      You can see these guys (snake oil salesmen) at Moran market in Seoul, where the oil is a popular traditional remedy for arthritis.

      Way more trustworthy than NZ politicians.

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