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Open Mike 05/08/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 5th, 2017 - 82 comments
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82 comments on “Open Mike 05/08/2017”

  1. Ad 1

    It’s been great to see the specialists in Dunedin come out hard against Minister Coleman. Good timing for electoral purposes to find a public voice. But I’d like the cameras to interview willing patients as well. And I’d like the media to connect the crumbling service with the crumbling facilities.

    I seriously get the impression Dunedin and Otago health never ever gets funding because it’s our last city to consistently vote Labour. Deliberate political neglect.

    We need a new politics that gives expression to grassroots healthcare resistance. We want a party that pledges a free national health care system, a fully funded and caring health system, healthcare that we can be confident about again. The system is just not doing its’ job and we need a party that shows it will completely change it.

    • garibaldi 1.1

      These are lofty goals but health is a bottomless pit $wise, and will only get worse. We will never solve it adequately, especially with so many boomers lining up, and all the sport /recreation accidents, and rampant diabetes, and drunk/drugged idiots, not to mention increasingly expensive medical procedures/drugs. I don’t think any party would be able to deliver what you are asking for, however there is room for improvement, just don’t expect a blank cheque.

      • Ed 1.1.1

        Dealing with alcohol will reduce a lot of unnecessary costs.

        ‘• A 2009 study, applying a methodology endorsed by the World Health Organization, estimated harmful alcohol use cost New Zealand $4.9 billion in 2005/06 (Berl 2009). However, previous estimates have ranged from
        $735 million to $16.1 billion (Law Commission 2009, p168).’
        In May 2008, a study in the Hawke’s Bay Regional Hospital emergency
        department found that alcohol contributed to 18.2% of injury presentations,
        rising to 67% between midnight and 6am.XXI
        • ACC estimates that up to 22% of all ACC claims had alcohol as a
        contributing factor, suggesting that alcohol-related claims to ACC alone cost
        around $650 million each year.XXII

        Click to access Fact%20Sheet%20Alcohol%20Harm%20in%20New%20Zealand%20final%202009.pdf

        • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.1

          Er, yes, if people didn’t use recreational drugs, health costs would go down. Which is like saying, if people stopped stealing things, crime costs would go down. The list of pointless contributions that could be made to a discussion is effectively infinite – perhaps it would be better not to do it?

          • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.1

            I’m rather anti-drugs. Recreational whatever. And predictably I don’t drink much either. Nothing much good comes from any of it, and the only people really qualified to speak on the topic are the hospital EMTs who spend their nights cleaning up the mess.

            Yet emphatically criminalisation is an utterly useless, counterproductive response to drug use. Whatever the reason a person uses any particular drug, in any social or addictive context, the legal system is always a wrong answer.

            On the other hand the amoral scum who profit from the trade in drugs, who literally murder souls just to make money … well personally I’m with Hone Harawira.

    • weka 1.2

      Dunedin also marched by the thousands and stopped National stealing their neurology service.

      Is the fraud from a few years ago part of why the DHB struggles financially? Both not having enough money and being punished for it?

      Coleman on Campbell yesterday was gobsmacking. It’s like he was channelling Key. NZ has a serious problem if it lets those lies glide by while baying for beneficiary blood. But then we will get the govt we deserve.

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.2.1

        The Listener article DIY Doctors, by Jessica McAllen in the latest Listener Aug 12-18

        From documents released under the Official Information Act and covering the period between 2014 and 2016, the Listener has learnt that in the past two years, DHBs have identified hundreds of non-surgical grade items and removed them from use in operating theatres.

        (Sorry, can’t get link.)
        Jonathan Coleman is speaking complete BS when he says that DHBs have enough money. He is downright lying, he knows it and we know it!
        He must have taken the Hypocritic oath by mistake!

        • weka 1.2.1.1

          Wow, has the Listener removed all its old online content?

          Is that quote behind a paywall?

          Yes, in that RNZ interview Coleman shows himself to be a consummate liar like FJK.

          • In Vino 1.2.1.1.1

            I have the magazine article in front of me; I am a paid up subscriber with full access to the website. For some reason McAllen’s article is not to be found on the website. Either they have not posted it yet, or they have toadied to people higher up in their commercialised chain who do not want the article aired any further.

      • Molly 1.2.2

        I find it hard to see why the reasoning that the DHB gets the same as everyone else is considered reasonable and without question.

        1. Do small capital purchases or maintenance come out of that budget? If buildings, equipment and plant are old then they will be requiring replacement, and the running costs will be higher?
        2. Dunedin will have higher heating and transport costs compared to other DHB’s, that means that in order to provide the same service – they will require more money.

        Essentially, the KPI’s given were to reduce costs not improve patient outcomes and reduce waiting times. Until the finances to do this are allocated, the DHB will be unable to offer their patients a quality service.

  2. Ed 2

    Another white ring wing entitled member of the commentariat saying it’s ok to ask woman if they are going to have children.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11898826

    • Cinny 2.1

      Lolz the commentator is a man. Am sure if he could grow a child in his belly he would probably have a different opinion.

    • Graeme 2.2

      Intrigued how John Roughan seems to know what text messages Jacinda is getting. Either the rats are being totally open about their abuse of power and the security apparatus or they are just making shit up. Again. And need to called out on it. Again. And hard, just like Mark Richardson.

      “Jacinda Ardern received some very good advice from Helen Clark by text from Europe this week: “Ignore the sexist attack and get on with the job.” Clark knew, as Hillary Clinton did not, that gender politics doesn’t work.”

      But really it’s the patriarchy that learnt in 1999 – 2002 that gender politics doesn’t work. Bill English took National to a shocking 21% defeat at that election, due in a large part to the patriarchal attitude of their attack politics in that term. Bring it on guys, you can do it. Again

      • Carolyn_nth 2.2.1

        Unless Team Ardern is leaking such things to promote the idea Ardern has Clark’s seal of approval?

  3. Ed 3

    An article worth reading.

    ‘Yesterday Jacinda made a pretty speech in parliament about how she doesn’t like unfairness. One time she lived for a little while in a small forestry town plagued by poverty. Jacinda thinks poverty is unfair and she doesn’t like that. Most of all Jacinda doesn’t think it is fair that anything should get in the way of her ambition to be Prime Minister. She “didn’t come in to parliament to be in opposition,” she said.

    Today she made it clear that under no circumstances would she be sticking her ambitious neck out to defend Green party co-leader Metiria Turei. For days on end Metiria has been under a barrage of right-wing attacks for getting a little extra allowance while trying to survive on a sole benefit in the 1990s. Jacinda showed her solidarity by sending a message to Metiria to fall on her sword, and that she would not be getting a cabinet position in a Labour-led government.

    The vicious welfare cuts of the early ’90s made benefits impossible to live on. Metiria was not simply a student in a flatting situation, she had a child she was raising while studying law. Those benefit cuts were never reversed by Labour in government from 1999 to 2008. Jacinda hasn’t got anything to say about that unfairness.”

    All of the article here.

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/jacinta-redefines-fairness/

    • Glenn 3.1

      Oh wow, it says she went to a book presentation by Paul Henry and saw Blair speak at Eden Park. Shock! Horror!
      Definitely earth shattering.

      My votes going back to Labour…Peters will have to do without me.

    • Bearded Git 3.2

      @Ed Yes, agreed, but Kelvin Davis bagging Metiria on breakfast TV was the worst. The MSM media gleefully reported it again and again-they take any opportunity to drive a wedge between the Greens and Labour. Davis really needs to be reigned in. Has he not heard of the MOU and growing the overall vote for the Left?

      Over-the-top (and factually inaccurate) attacks on Green leaders are stupid and counterproductive. Another good reason to vote Green.

      • alwyn 3.2.1

        ” The MSM media gleefully reported it again and again-they take any opportunity to drive a wedge between the Greens and Labour”.

        And didn’t you see how happy Davis looked? That is exactly what the Labour Party want.
        That is his job, after all. That is the sort of things leaders try and pretend they are above and palm off on their juniors. It is the job Trevor Mallard did for Helen Clark, isn’t it?
        The Labour Party can see very clearly, and I suspect their polls are reinforcing the message, that the majority of the New Zealand population are opposed to what Turei has done. Did you not see the polls on whether they approved of MTs actions?
        Davis is doing his very best to try and persuade the public that Metiria’s activities have nothing to do with Labour and that they will have nothing to do with her. She, and her acolytes are meanwhile doing everything they can to grasp Labour into their death clutch. They think, most wishfully that they, and Turei, can survive.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

          And didn’t you see how happy Davis looked? That is exactly what the Labour Party want.

          And that is what keeps Labour out of government. But, then, you know that and is what you actually want.

          Davis is doing his very best to try and persuade the public that Metiria’s activities have nothing to do with Labour and that they will have nothing to do with her.

          Of course they are because admitting that they intend to keep the law broken by forcing people to break it probably isn’t a winning strategy.

          Metiria’s actions most definitely have something to do with Labour in that they’re promising to keep the same punitive and unworkable laws in place.

          Did you not see the polls on whether they approved of MTs actions?

          Popularity != righteousness.

        • Bearded Git 3.2.1.2

          15% in the polls where you ACT party mates don’t even register Alwyn.

          The Greens are doing just fine and with Jacinda we are now looking at something like 34+14=48% which may be enough for Lab/Gr to rule alone, but only if Davis can engage his brain before speaking.

          • In Vino 3.2.1.2.1

            And Davis gleeful?? Give us a break – he is a show- pony who always tries to look gleeful. Seen him look serious and unhappy yet? (I guess he would if he lost his wallet.) Sorry – I have yet to be impressed by him.

      • adam 3.2.2

        Someone should remind Davis about glasshouses and throwing stones…

        Mr not so squeaky clean.

  4. Ed 4

    Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?
    by Andrew Geddis.

    ‘That then leaves the question of how much moral or political opprobrium to level at Turei for her actions. Well, I guess that depends how harshly you want to judge a late-40s person for the fun-at-the-time-but-dumb-in-hindsight mistakes made in their early 20s.

    Treating the electoral system’s rules as a bit of a joke (she was in a political party called “McGillicuddy Serious”, for crying out loud) seems to me to be pretty much at the lower end of that stupid shit scale. It certainly ranks below “got pissed but drove home anyway” – a crime I’m pretty sure many of our current MPs committed in their youth, but you can bet will never ‘fess up to.

    So Turei has to live with what she did some 24-years ago – and as I have been typing this, I see she’s accepted the price of those actions includes forgoing a ministerial role in any post-September alternative Government. That’s a pretty heavy personal cost for her to bear, given that she’s waited some 15 years to have a chance at actually making the changes she wants for New Zealand.’

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/who-breaks-a-butterfly-upon-a-wheel

  5. Cinny 5

    The Jacinda effect almost knocked me off my feet yesterday.

    My anti labour, john key voting, urban professional, city dwelling brother, rang yesterday. He’s been fence sitting since Key resigned. He’s voting labour this election and has signed up as a volunteer for Jacinda.

    I almost fell over, so proud of him, he was raving about her. Love my brother so much but we’ve never agreed when it came to politics. He’s now encouraging everyone he knows to get out and vote this year and he knows so many many people, I’m buzzing out about it. Geez he was excited.

    Rock on Jacinda ! 😀

    • BM 5.1

      Your brother sounds like a shallow fool.

      The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

      Winston Churchill

      • Cinny 5.1.1

        Not a shallow fool, rather someone who has been brainwashed by big business into believing that national were the only answer.

        The manipulating way corporations go about ensuring their loopholes remain intact, brainwash management who then perpetuate it to the workers.

        If the workers are uneducated re politics, and if they trust their management, they may well look towards them for advice on who to vote for.

        Trickle down effect of persuasion.

        With Key not around to feed the propaganda, and the reality being reported constantly in the media (housing crisis, dirty water etc etc), many have been stirred into realising… ‘what the f was i thinking, it’s time for a change’

        • In Vino 5.1.1.1

          Arrogant BM. Easy to quote Churchill’s aphorisms. Sign of an equally shallow fool, to my mind. You do not know Cinny’s brother, and should apologise.
          I can also quote Bernard-Shaw: “Democracy stems from the failure of every other system.” Ha ha, very clever.

      • weka 5.1.2

        “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

        Says the man who claims he doesn’t care what happens with this election.

        • garibaldi 5.1.2.1

          The thing is though, Weka, BM is right…. the average voter is a dipstick. Joe Bloggs doesn’t give a rat’s arse about politics.

      • Ant 5.1.3

        Democracy reflects the will of the people, the majority of whom are partially informed at best and largely susceptible to spin-bait. Small wonder Churchill added democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.

      • Editractor 5.1.4

        There you go again, pretending that the average voter didn’t vote for National and Key for the past three elections.

        • Ant 5.1.4.2

          No pretence at all, -spin generated by Crosby Textor was highly effective compelling the ‘unthinkings’ to lap up National and their erstwhile leader.

          • Editractor 5.1.4.2.1

            Although my comment appeared under yours (not indented), it was a reply to BM, who was pushing the same barrow a day or two ago. It seems voters are only shallow when they don’t vote the way BM thinks they should. I find it especially funny in the context of the “Most New Zealanders think that…” comments that righties seem to love.

      • Johan 5.1.5

        Winston Churchill was an idiot in many ways.

        • adam 5.1.5.1

          You mean apart from Gallipoli, concentration camps, and his open admiration for Benito.

      • Foreign waka 5.1.6

        So BM. The average voter is also you?

        • In Vino 5.1.6.1

          I have a sneaking suspicion that BM just might count himself as ‘Above Average.’ A bit like all the children at Lake Wobegon, if you have listened to Garrison Keillor..

    • Pat 5.2

      similar experience here…5 people i know (who were never going to vote labour) have told me they are going to vote for Jacinda in the past couple of days….the test will be whether thats sustained for a few more weeks.

      • Cinny 5.2.1

        Good buzz Pat. Personally am really looking forward to voters feelings and feedback from the leaders debates

        • The decrypter 5.2.1.1

          Interested in what james has to say.I reckon he might be coming across the divide about now. Welcome if you are james. No hard feelings -and all that.

    • Rosemary McDonald 5.3

      Are we really that fickle Cinny?

      I hope not.

      Those of us (and I’m sure I’m not the only one) who are immune to the “Jacinda effect” are looking for more from the new Labour leadership team in order to secure our vote.

      Korero Pono is right… 😀https://thestandard.org.nz/i-too-am-not-resigning/#comment-1363099 in saying ….

      ” I am disappointed at her lack of steel, she should, at the very least defended the position that Metiria found herself in back in the 90s and highlighted the disadvantage faced by women and children every day, forcing many into making decisions that may well criminalise them. Instead Ardern bends to the dominant narrative, a narrative that primarily punishes women and does little to support her supposed feminist principles. This type of hypocrisy reinforces my disappointment in Labour because it suggests that we are simply going to get more of the same from them and let’s face it, Labour (along with National) have done very little over 30 plus years to alleviate the plight of the most vulnerable in this country, and if they (Labour) cannot even stand up for their supposed coalition partner, then more fool them because those missing million and those wavering between Labour and Greens will continue as they have done and that may mean another 3 years stuck with National.”

      Jacinda is firmly putting a stake in the ground.

      So think about it for a minute or two….

      Jacinda totally represents the establishment and hence the status quo.

      And further hence…those Nat and undecided voters who are currently infatuated with NZ politics’ latest charismatic ‘leader’ will have another think come polling day and decide that if it comes to a choice between a centre right or centre left government they may as well choose the evil we already live with.

      • Cinny 5.3.1

        Are we really that fickle?

        I guess that all depends on peoples circumstances, their wants and needs. It’s all connected, and everyone thinks differently.

        Some prioritise their own needs, some look at the bigger picture in a less selfish manner.

        Politics etc etc should be taught and discussed in schools, education would help so many to make a well informed choice.

        All I want is a change of government (so sick of so many suffering), everything else will come in due course.

        • Tautoko Mangō Mata 5.3.1.1

          Tautoko, Cinny. If we are sitting waiting for the party that suits our ideals exactly, then that will never happen. We need to change the government first to one which has some excellent, vocal and energetic young members who believe in the principles of social justice. We have had 9 years of economic considerations over-ruling all else. Many decisions made have pushed costs on to future generations. Short term savings by squeezing hospitals are now being exposed, the cost of a fence at the top of the cliff is a helluva lot cheaper than the cost of the cleanup at the bottom. The current government has been unable, or unwilling to consider costs as a whole.
          Let’s be pragmatic. Step 1. Clean out this government .
          Step 2. Start paying back social debt and environmental debt, which should take precedence over fiscal surpluses,.

      • Gabby 5.3.2

        Stuck with it now. U know where u turns lead.

        • savenz 5.3.2.1

          Agree number 1 mission is to get rid of National, BUT opposition division is one of MSM’s biggest news stories, so maybe Labour and Greens should try to be kinder to each other (esp Kevin Davis) and NOT give MSM soundbites against each other. And to speak no ill of NZ First.

          That way, MSM might just have to do articles about National their frauds, and their policies and prospects…

          • Gabby 5.3.2.1.1

            They sort of get it both ways, Kelve does give voice to those who think Turei just might be a bit slippery and untrustworthy. People who are a bit more ‘whatever it takes’ in their moral outlook can interpret his words that way.

    • Craig H 5.4

      That is fantastic!

  6. Ant 6

    Jacinda’s speeches are refreshingly unfiltered, unlike the glassy – eyed ramblings of our older right-wing politicians. Is this merely an index of her newness on the leadership scene? I hope not as her present mode should resonate (that word again!) with many of our younger non-voters.

  7. Cinny 7

    Soundbite from this mornings The Nation, interview with paula bennett is hinting about national doing something to change drug laws…. dang this should be interesting. Will desperation for votes cause them to do another flip flop on their ideology. Show starts at 9.30am, paula also being asked about gun laws

  8. RedLogix 8

    Now here is a whole new can of worms:

    While Time magazine recently chose President-Elect Donald Trump as its Person of the Year, CRISPR gene editing pioneers were a runner-up choice. Few innovations in the last millennium carry such transformative prospects as the ability to edit our own genome and make ourselves into fundamentally something else. Some experts think genetic editing might be the key to curing all disease and achieving perfect health.

    Unlike other epic scientific advances—like the 1945 explosion of the first atomic bomb in New Mexico—the immediate effect of genetic editing technology is not dangerous. Yet, it stands to be just as divisive to humans as the 70-year proliferation of nuclear weaponry. On one hand, you have secular-minded China and its scientists leading the gene editing revolution, openly modifying the human genome in hopes of improving the human being. On the other hand, you have a soon-to-be broadly Republican US administration and Congress that appear to be strongly Christian—conservatives who often insist humans should remain just as God created them.

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ezp8me/genetic-editing-could-cause-the-next-cold-war

    • Ad 8.1

      Really? That’s the binary?
      Godless scientific Chinese, verses the US theists holding humanity back?

      Note 4 out of 5 submitters to the euthanasia select committee were opposed. Not the casual polls on the matter, the opinion leaders and experts who fronted.

      What is the difference between editing a gene for a therapy, and editing a gene for say eye colour, or gender, or skin tone? If you think there’s a therapeutic v cosmetic distinction, what about baldness, or obesity, or varicose veins, or athletic propensity, warts, or moles? There is nowhere to draw the line yet. It will be very hard to.

      If scientists proceed ahead of society, they will be shut down by society. As they should.

      • Psycho Milt 8.1.1

        Note 4 out of 5 submitters to the euthanasia select committee were opposed.

        It was a real credit to the organisational capacity of the churches involved, but not useful in any wider sense.

        If scientists proceed ahead of society, they will be shut down by society. As they should.

        But they won’t. If a technology is known and feasible, society’s ability to prevent its adoption and use is minimal. Especially if there are a lot of countries where enforcement of regulations is a matter of who makes the better cash offer. This genie ain’t going back in the bottle, so best start figuring out how to regulate it.

        • Ad 8.1.1.1

          It wasn’t just the churches. But good on them anyway.

          Plenty of technologies have died. Plenty of others have been delayed until society caught up. Shutting down – or even hugely limiting – a technology with regulation is precisely the objective until ethics subjects technology.

      • RedLogix 8.1.2

        Fair enough Ad the binary framing of the article only served as fluff to get attention. And attention from an American perspective at that.

        Declaration of personal interest. Had this technology been available some decades ago I would absolutely have chosen to use it. At least three of the living members of my immediate family would have directly benefited.

        Equally there is no question the Chinese (and at the moment they are the leaders in this area) will use their headstart to create new generations of workers, soldiers and intellectuals that are smarter, stronger and more enduring. It won’t be straight out of X-Men but it is the stuff of many a scientific dystopia. It will prove harder than expected to get the desired outcomes, but with time there is no question they will produce new, different humans. For all sorts of purposes.

        Or at the very least I foresee the uber-wealthy gaining control over it, reserving it for the exclusive use of their cast. When money becomes useless, CRISPR will be the new wealth. I agree with PM. Regulation of the ordinary kind will be like locks, only good for keeping honest men out. Money will speak very loud.

        Or imagine the issues that arise even with good intent. For example what if we can cure say psychopathy? Or a range of other sociopathic behaviours. Or reduce male testosterone levels even further in order to render them more co-operative and docile? Less inclined to violence and rape.

        Or someone finds a way to render one particular species or race sterile altogether? There are so many possible uses and mis-uses.

        Maybe a global regime, draconian and absolute which registered the DNA provenance of every living human, and exterminated anything illegal might work. But that’s another nightmare too.

        The article quoted may have it’s flaws, but it is right on one thing. This could make nuclear weapons look relatively benign.

    • greywarshark 9.1

      Andy Beckett’s long read on Thatcher and Blair and May in link from savenz

      On Tony Blair:
      Most of his conference speech was vigorously applauded. But the passage on economics was received with solemn looks and silence. There was no heckling, as there had been when previous Labour leaders and chancellors delivered what they saw as home truths about the economy. Instead, there was a sense of resignation in the hall: an acceptance by a party of the left that the right had won the economic argument.

      In that short silence, why couldn’t someone have stood up, and said (shocking everyone and making a huge reportable point):

      “Jesus Tony, are you saying the UK government is going to abandon us all?”

      That could have been said, and registered with all, before the security police dragged the person away. And given a bit of comfort to those between a rock and a hard place, and feeling bruised or worse.

  9. savenz 10

    Global warming.
    Extreme heat warnings issued in Europe as temperatures pass 40C
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/04/extreme-heat-warnings-issued-europe-temperatures-pass-40c

  10. ianmac 11

    It seems to me that in a Fair society, it would be OK to go for broke. Set a social sight high and ground breaking, then pay for it in the long term. Ignore the “Show me the money.” If for example we get the ambulance at the top of the cliff, society would be richer and huge money would be saved in the long run.

    This National mob just dabble tiny bits just enough to plug gaps.
    Will Labour/Greens go for broke? Hope so.

    • Rosemary McDonald 11.1

      That sounds very Social Investment there ianmac….https://siu.govt.nz/about-us/our-people/

      “The social sector supports all Kiwis by investing in their education, health and wellbeing so they can live fulfilling and productive lives. But some people need more support to thrive and enhance their quality of life.

      People are at the centre of social investment.

      It’s called social investment, not spending, because it’s about investing resources upfront to enable people in need to thrive over the longer-term.

      Four elements of social investment

      Use data smarter to better understand people’s current and future needs
      Systematically measure the effectiveness of services in meeting people’s needs
      Measure long-term outcomes for people over their lifetime and feeding back into decision-making
      Understand the fiscal implications of better outcomes and help to manage the long-term costs to government.”

      Sounds aspirational…such a pity National and their coalition partners have been trying to do this on the cheap.

      And if one takes a gander at the backgrounds of “our people” at the Social Investment Unit….

      As someone who has tried (and largely failed) to access government funding to assist in the support someone with very high disability support needs the purpose of their ‘data collection’ (read ‘inquisition’) appears to be to force applicants to exhaust their ‘natural supports’ and when the well is dry, threaten to incarcerate the person with the disability into a residential care facility. Which is paradoxically more expensive than funding a reasonable level of home based care provided by resident family. Unless of course, means and asset testing applies.

  11. Halfcrown 12

    On Open Mike 4/08/17 Greg wrote this.

    “I worry for the future of this country if you think we need a Green Government.
    I have no problem with a Green Party, a proper Green Party.
    The one we have though is a Communist Party masquerading as a Green Party.”

    You are not the only one who is worried Greg, I am more than concerned about NZ after reading “In The Jaws Of The Dragon How China Is Taking Over New Zealand” by Ron Asher, and you are right it will end up as a communist state, a Chinese type communist state so don’t blame the Greens blame the rightwing fuckwits who thought it would be a bit of a “larf” if they destroyed the west’s industrial base for cheap and sometimes slave labour in China. Also at the same time for a cheap dollar and greed sell everything off so there is no added value for NZ. Of course the elitist who are behind this like Key, Shipley, don’t give a flying shit as it will not affect them as they will be classed as the same as the ruling communist elite of China.
    Cannot quote passages from the book as the author has very strict rules written about copyright, but I suggest before you cast your vote and if you value the sovereignty, economic future and independance of NZ, get a copy from the library and see the shit that is really going on in this country, and don’t accuse the Greens
    of being communists. Aim that at all the right wing fuckwits who have caused this situation.

    • greywarshark 12.1

      Sorry that you haven’t found the full crown yet. Widen your reading so that it just doesn’t fuel your prejudices, and then go back and critique that book.

    • Ad 12.2

      Greens have done their job to squeeze out any competitor for the hard left vote. It’s 10%.
      No crossover potential.

      But at least won’t go backward, Stops any foolish bleed to Mana or other commies.

      10% is fine.

  12. joe90 13

    The NRA included the #ClenchedFistOfTruth hashtag and Dana’s having a wee cry because she said FISK, not Fist.

    .@DLoesch has a message for the @nytimes: “We're coming for you.” One non-#fakenews story is not enough. #NRA #ClenchedFistofTruth pic.twitter.com/Hm1QkJi5Tp— NRATV (@NRATV) August 3, 2017

    https://twitter.com/NRATV/status/893230656125149185/video/1

  13. Peroxide Blonde 14

    England will NOT get to negotiated trade agreements until they address their border with Ireland, Citizens rights and reconcile the bookkeeping. The 27 Prime Ministers meet in early October to review progress in Brexit negotiations

    “…….we will decide together whether sufficient progress has been made on three key issues to allow the Brexit negotiations to proceed to the next phase.”
    says Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach. He sound like he is ready to exercise his veto if the rest of the EU doesn’t beat him to it!

    By all account the English cabinet couldn’t organise a piss-up in a champagne bar. The EU keeps telling them the clock is ticking, but the numpties just re-run their worn old slogans for the benefit of the Telegraph and Daily Mail readers.

    Here is Varadkar’s Belfast speech.

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/08/04/leo-varadkar-we-need-to-build-more-bridges-and-fewer-borders/

  14. joe90 15

    Third – wayism.

    All in the Family Debt

    How Neoliberals and Conservatives Came Together to Undo the Welfare State

    […]

    This return to Elizabethan poor law principles was made possible, in part, because of an unlikely alliance between neoliberals and social conservatives. Despite their differences on virtually all other issues, neoliberals and social conservatives were in agreement that the bonds of family needed to be encouraged—and at the limit enforced—as a necessary counterpart to market freedom. Though it is often overlooked in the literature, economic liberalism is as much concerned with familial responsibility as it is with personal responsibility, and the neoliberal emphasis on familial relations as a substitute for public relief is an unappreciated, but critical aspect of free-market liberalism. More than anything else, this appeal to familial responsibility sealed the working relationship between free market liberalism and social conservatism, very much defining the shape of social welfare in the contemporary era.

    http://bostonreview.net/class-inequality/melinda-cooper-all-family-debt

  15. Ed 17

    If the media do not press Paula Bennett on her time on a benefit, then clear bias is being taken by them.

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