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Open Mike 05/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 5th, 2017 - 81 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

81 comments on “Open Mike 05/09/2017 ”

  1. Cinny 2

    I’m going to march for the right for me to lead the country, because I’m selfish like that and full of my own self importance, it’s all about me, me, me. My cause is myself.

    And that’s the problem with this government, selfishness and their own self inflated self importance.

    • Yep. He was honest there lol.

      I watched on fbook live – i like sending emotioncons as they speak. The comments were so fast couldn’t keep up let alone read them.

      Everytime bill spoke the flood of angry faces was so good to see.

  2. Ad 3

    Are there any Labour supporters in Wanaka?

    • Bearded Git 3.1

      I live near Wanaka, vote Green but also strongly support Labour. There are other members in the town.

      I have put up some Labour billboards in Wanaka/Hawea and am organising a meeting 7pm Tuesday 12th Sept in Wanaka on Labour’s “Clean Rivers” water royalty policy. David Parker will explain all.

      • bwaghorn 3.1.1

        can you get parker to clear up the uses labour plans for the tax money gained from the water tax and find out when they plan to start on the city rivers we can’t swim in

        • greywarshark 3.1.1.1

          Don’t be silly bwaghorn. ‘City rivers’ – you miss the point about having clean water which is a necessity for all people. You are so deep into the idea of division between country and town is all important and the real basis of the argument. The truth is that the problem is country people against other country people. It is farmers who are adopting unsustainable practices to squeeze out more profit for themselves, and using a resource that is priceless to us all, more important than diamonds. And while we dither as to who owns water and has rights to remove it with a piece of paper from some entity this priceless resource is not being managed properly for everyone’s good.

          Spraying properties with water all the time and overstocking and over-fertilising the ground with either on-farm spraying of cowpoo, or it leaching into the water, along with artificial fertiliser is the problem. And it is caused by practices from some farmers, not all. Stop trying to find fault with the cities, the quick way of improving water quality is to stop present farming practices, and all to institute clean water practices. Practically all cities have treatment plants, they deal with the enormous amount of pollution we all cause every day. Farmers can manage to deal with it by reducing their animal numbers and stopping jumping on the ‘milk rush’ which has become a bubble, and when it bursts for some reason will cause even more pollution from the unwanted milk that has to be dumped.

          Grow up and think. As I said man up, but differently from the narrow, money-bound constipated thinking of Fed Farmers.

          • Andrea 3.1.1.1.1

            “Stop trying to find fault with the cities,” Why?

            Industrial areas are as likely to turn on the hose and spray chemicals off the footpath, into the gutter and down the nearest drain as any cow cocky.

            Those happy places in cities with their too-small rubbish bins and their lazy customers turfing packaging anywhere – including by the rivers and at the beach to end up in a rather large gyre out in the Pacific.

            The lazy ones with the big 4WD and a load of garden trash or worse that they don’t want to take to the tip. Over the edge. Into the creek. Plus vehicles with their burden of oil and grease and decomposing components.

            Putting creeks and streams underground for human convenience. Goodbye creek fauna and a resource for ‘our wonderful birds’. (Where’s OUR Suzuki? Or aren’t koura as important as salmon?)

            Subdivisions with earth-moving – silt into waterways.

            And urban people would prefer to swim in rivers that are local. Kids don’t have cars. They do have bikes – and the best swimming holes are the ones you can get to after school on your bike or on foot.

            • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Andrea
              Can’t understand your rant. It doesn’t affect the fact that there are millions of cows pooing not in a toilet where the excrement goes to a tank where it is treated then through special wetlands. Cities full of humans where people are encouraged and prosecuted in an effort to control pollutions.

              Country full of dairy cows stealing the water that the land and oceans need as well as the conurbations. The country is under-populated by people so the people aren’t the cause of their areas pollution. Just their actions in over-stocking and under-caring.

              Try thinking along those lines instead of exploding in a shitstorm of holy righteousness.

        • Bearded Git 3.1.1.2

          Will put the question to him

          • bwaghorn 3.1.1.2.1

            cheers
            although i note in a farmer’s mag today O’conner (the west coast one} suggested the tax may be used to build water holding infrastructure and such ,i’m guessing so they can keep rivers above minimum flow levels in summer , i could support that , it would be nice to have a clear idea though.

      • Ad 3.1.2

        Where and what venue?

    • swordfish 3.2

      Ad

      Are there any Labour supporters in Wanaka?

      They were fairly thin on the ground at the last Election

      So much so that the Greens (a la Bearded Git) were more than twice as popular amongst Wanakistas

      2014

      Labour = 167 Party Votes (8%)

      Greens = 393 Party Votes (19%)

      Total Vote = 2097

      She’s a Blue Town & no mistake !

      (Mind you – exclude the local farmers = slightly less Blue)

      • Ad 3.2.1

        Even Parker in 2008 could only muster 12,000 electorate votes against Dean: who reigns on 23-25,000 votes.

        Waitaki only gets a smattering of non-blue votes out of Oamaru and Moeraki. It’s National’s equivalent of Mangere.

      • Graeme 3.2.2

        The biggest standout stat in Queenstown lakes is the pitiful turnout, not sure if it’s due to a lot of people who can’t vote or what. But 2000 odd in Wanaka and just short of 4500 in Wakatipu form resident populations about four times that seems a bit low

  3. Eco maori 4

    I thought the people on the Rock did not delve in politics. But they have and they don’t want to shear there lollies ether there $15000 K + salaries Labour want to set there tax plan so it is fair on everyone DON’T you get IT boys.I’m losing my admiration of you Boys

    • crashcart 4.1

      I have always felt there was a pretty clear right bias to the rock. They use to fawn over Key in a disgusting way. I love the music but it is one of the reasons I just couldn’t keep listening to them. I am always keen to hear other opinions but listening to someone kiss someone else’s ass is bloody horrible.

      • Eco maori 4.1.1

        Thanks for correcting me crashcart I made a ass of myself assumption +100 News hub forgot the lipstick for there guest what his name

    • Eco maori 4.2

      Wow the NZ police must not have liked my post I wrote last nite and this morning.
      There was a marked cop car on my ass in the middle of tauranga and rotorua my blood pressure went up a bit but Fuck THEM I’m keeping up the good fight for our environment and people Boy on the Rock sorry for bursting you bubble but I will call anyone out on these issues stay neutral

      • Eco maori 4.2.1

        Man these Muppets insult me all the time !!!!!!!the cops

        • Eco maori 4.2.1.1

          Apologies to the boys on the Rock I should not try and impose my opinion on you guys
          After all you have the rights to free speech and so have I Paddy Is Bills boy he is not a neutral reporter he is national through and through and I will tell everyone how I think of you guys to ta

    • tc 4.3

      Look at who owns it…..then it becomes obvious.

      Mediawonks

  4. esoteric pineapples 5

    I liked what Jacinda wore in last night’s debate. It felt like she was representing her generation by her outfit and it felt real and normal. One can’t escape the power of appearances for making a statement.

    • weka 5.1

      I didn’t notice. Probably because I couldn’t get passed the fact that on my laptop English’s podium looked blue and Ardern’s looked pink (tbh might have been the warm light filter on my laptop)

  5. gsays 6

    I would like to have the average wage myth debunked.
    If most people are on a wage between the minimum and living wage, and a few are paid obscenely well, it puts the average wage well above $20 an hour.

    This is a distortion and doesn’t apply to any person.

    Jacinda got close last night after the PM went on about ‘the economy’, she asked “how do people feel?”.

    It seems the Tories have no idea what life is like for most of us (those in poverty and the working poor), and blindly quote averages.
    This also allows hooten to quote “average households” and the tax hit they will take, again a distortion and a fiction.

    • Andre 6.1

      Oxford dictionary:

      ” average
      NOUN

      1A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number. ”

      The problem is the word “average” can mean one of at least three statistical measures, so it’s a really sloppy word to use. Unfortunately it’s commonly taken to mean the mean, so as you point out it’s really unsuitable to describe a badly skewed distribution like incomes. The median is really a much better single-number measure in this case.

      • Macro 6.1.1

        Actually in the case of highly skewed data such as incomes – the best measure of central tendency is the mode – the score that occurs the most frequently. In the case of incomes the mode (the income most people get) lies well below the mean (average), and the median (middle score). For NZ the modal income is around $20,000. (it was $15,000 in 2006)
        http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2008/08-04/06.htm
        see fig 2.

        • Andre 6.1.1.1

          Joe and Jane Public usually read “average” as half of us are above average and half below. That’s pretty much the definition of median.

          The spikes in the distribution at benefit levels and tax rate change thresholds tell an interesting story, and the shape and length of the tail explains a lot about why there’s a big difference between the mean and the median for this distribution. But whenever I try to explain anything like that to someone that’s not math oriented, I get “that look” real fast. I tend to kinda call it a job well done if I can get as far as clarifying the difference between median and mean, and delving into the the situations where the mode might be the more significant measure gets a bit wonky. Not to mention that how you set your intervals for the distribution can affect what number ends up being the mode.

          • Macro 6.1.1.1.1

            Yeah I’m well aware of how Joe Public view the concept of average and it’s what devious politicians prey upon.
            I worked in the research branch of Dept of Stats for a while and taught Stats. It really annoys me the way they constantly use the mean when it is so patently gives a false impression of how things are. But as Disreali said “There are lies, damned lies, and Statistics”

    • NewsFlash 6.2

      They need to use the median value rather than average, averages can easily distort reality bc the very high values distort the result, the median is the middle number undistorted

    • Eco maori 6.3

      +100 gsays

  6. greywarshark 8

    Listen to interview about robots and future work coming on Radionz now.
    Living with Robots

    University of Auckland’s Professor of Connectivity, Darl Kolb, on what life will be like for humans as robots have an increasing presence in our lives. Darl Kolb’s main research interest has been in the area of managing personal and organisational connectivity for performance and well-being.

    Also of interest:
    Survival of soil organisms a wake-up call for bio-security
    From Nine To Noon, 9:08 am on 1 September 2017

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201856932/survival-of-soil-organisms-a-wake-up-call-for-bio-security
    Listen duration 12′ :48″
    Tiny creatures in soil that attack plants have shown the ability to survive for at least three years in new research, giving new insights into the bio-security threats posed by passenger travel and trade between countries. The creatures, called nematodes, are very small worm-like organisms – and are estimated to cause billions of dollars of crop damage worldwide each year. They can survive in dried out, seemingly harmless soil attached to a shoe or a freight container coming across t

  7. Muttonbird 9

    I love it how the media is reporting Bill English’s fake throwaway ‘100,000 kids out of poverty’ line last night as serious policy which Labour are somehow scrambling to match.

    Bingles just panicked and dropped it in on the fly. Someone needs to ask him about the strategy they’ve been working on for oh so long.

    • Muttonbird 9.1

      Thankfully Lloyd Burr is onto it.

      It’s called policy-on-the-hoof. He probably came up with it right there on the spot. It didn’t look planned. It just tumbled out of his mouth.

      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/lloyd-burr-where-s-the-detail-on-bill-english-s-new-poverty-targets.html

      JA should hammer English on this. Hard. But the ‘relentless positivity’ policy precludes it.

      • DentArthurDent 9.1.1

        My take on it was while it was on the fly its probably something he’s been thinking about for awhile so now hes brought it forward

        Is it really so bad hes pledged it though

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

          It looks bad because National have spent the last last nine years denying that there’s a problem with poverty in NZ.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.2

          My take on it is that Bill English tells lies and has done so throughout his parliamentary career, and that anyone who believes a word he says is part of the problem.

          Enabling this recidivist fraud makes you an accessory.

          • garibaldi 9.1.1.2.1

            That’s right OAB, over 40% of the population are indeed accessories. It is a shameful situation.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.2.1.1

              Nope.

              At the highest level of their support, the National Party were supported by slightly less than 30% of the electorate.

              You’re forgetting the non voters, and electorate ≠ population.

              Edit: akshully, it’s slightly less than 30% of registered voters, which isn’t even the entire electorate.

        • Craig H 9.1.1.3

          Not bad, but without definitions of which poverty he’s talking about, it’s hard to really judge it other than as a throwaway line.

    • bwaghorn 9.2

      he plucked straight out of his arse and the useful idiots like garner lapped itup

    • Eco maori 9.3

      Yes Muttonbird bill still got our media by the balls What happen to the Big story on Sunday when Bennett wanted to take privacy rights away from gang next left commenter and protesters green peace.
      Now they have a body language expert on news hub
      Lying for bill they are pulling all the tricks out of there ass

    • Macro 9.4

      As there are 300,000 people living in poverty in this country, lifting 1/3 out of poverty while leaving the rest in poverty is unconscionable. It might salve the consciences of some but is immoral, when we have the capacity in this country to remove all from poverty.
      If you think about it – the ones who are “lifted out of poverty” are the JAMIs (those Just about making it) leaving those below them in the socio-economic spectrum still floundering. It is the easiest “solution” to a problem and the one with the least cost. It is far from being the best or fairest solution.

      • McFlock 9.4.1

        A promise of lifting 100k out of poverty is actually worse than that. It’s like the nats reporting x-thousand new state homes – great, they’ve bought new ones, but they’ve sold more than they bought.

        What they’re hiding behind is the fact that it’ll take more than a year to eliminate poverty.

        Firstly, it needs to be reduced as a proportion of the total population, and those reductions need to be assessed consistently and regularly.

        Secondly, those reductions can’t exclude particular demographic areas, such as Maori or solo parents.

        Thirdly, as you point out it can’t just be about those close to the measuring line – those in greater need need greater effort to assist.

        • Macro 9.4.1.1

          Or Bill promising 173,000 new jobs every year! Yeah 173,000 jobs advertised maybe.
          Total Billshit.

  8. Peroxide Blonde 10

    How Arlene Foster helped nationalism find its teeth.

    “If you feed a crocodile it will keep coming back and looking for more.”

    There is talk of efforts to get the Northern Ireland assembly up and running again. Yesterday many news outlets reported on Sinn Fein “rejecting” a proposal frpom Arlene Foster the leader of the DUP to come together.

    Here is a very good article that gives context to this “rejection”.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/how-arlene-foster-helped-nationalism-find-its-teeth-1.3208198

  9. joe90 11

    Always the human cost.

    (Seoul, September 4, 2017) – China appears to be intensifying its crackdowns on North Korean escapees attempting to transit through China to seek protection, Human Rights Watch said today. According to activists and North Koreans living South Korea who are in contact with people in China and North Korea, China has detained at least 41 North Korean refugees, and an undetermined number of their guides, in the past two months.

    […]

    “China has known for years that North Korea security officials use torture as a matter of longstanding state policy and practice, and imprison people who leave the country without permission,” said Phil Robertson, deputy Asia Director at Human Rights Watch. “By returning them to a place of torture and persecution, China is clearly violating international law and its obligations as a nation that has ratified the UN Refugee Convention.”

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/03/china-redoubling-crackdowns-fleeing-north-koreans

  10. BlueSky 12

    The real question about poverty is has it increased and has the poverty line (or the standard of living in New Zealand) risen? If even one child is below the line or if the standard of living has not improved then it is not good enough. Provide some meaningful measures.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1

      How many more do you need before you actually care enough to do anything about it?

      Nine years and counting.

    • Andrea 12.2

      In all this heart-rending syrup about ‘kids out of poverty’ could someone please do the details on what they will be doing for the parents of said kids?

      “If the answer is more money, there is no problem”

      And the answer is NOT more distribution of money.

      We already don’t have enough teachers, or assorted medical people, or mental health providers – and they won’t be magicked into being in three years. We tried that for radiographers and that wasn’t a clap hands success.

      We already don’t have enough entry level work or on the job training or reliable work for people to develop skills, then upgrade or change to gain better income. Three years free tertiary? What a joke (the sort anyone would go eeeew! to.)

      Both of the larger parties are still feeding the Good People who Make Money (from the misery of others).

      Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose …

  11. popexplosion 14

    72! He’ll be 75 in 2020. Have there ever been any 75 year old nz ministers?

    • alwyn 14.1

      Walter Nash became Prime Minister at 75 and left office when he was 78.
      That is the oldest one I can think off in New Zealand.

  12. joe90 15

    Shit’s getting real on the Korean peninsula.

    SEOUL – South Korea’s defense minister on Monday said it was worth reviewing the redeployment of American tactical nuclear weapons to the Korean Peninsula to guard against the North, a step that analysts warn – if taken – would sharply increase the risk of an accidental conflict.

    http://nationalpost.com/news/world/south-korea-raises-idea-of-bringing-back-tactical-u-s-nuclear-weapons-to-guard-against-north-korea

  13. Stuart Munro 16

    It seems that Nick Smith lied about the rat poison… http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11917037

  14. joe90 17

    A pogrom seventy years in the making and look who turns up.

    .

    When the whole world is looking for a way to resolve the fresh escalation of the Rohingya crisis in Rakhine State, Israel has refused to stop supplying arms to Myanmar army saying “the matter is clearly diplomatic”.

    http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/2017/09/04/israel-refuses-halt-arms-supply-myanmar-army/

    .

    There is relatively little criticism toward the military operation within Myanmar itself, however. Army commander Sr. Gen. Min Aung Hlaing’s remarks on Friday suggest it won’t ease off its campaign, describing it as “unfinished business” dating back to World War II.

    Speaking in the capital Naypyitaw, he said the army was pursuing its patriotic duty to preserve Myanmar’s borders and prevent Rohingya insurgents carving out their own territory in northern Rakhine State. He referred to communal violence in the area in 1942, when ethnic Rohingya who sided with the retreating British forces clashed with local ethnic-Rakhine Buddhists, who aligned themselves with the Japanese. Tens of thousands of people died in a failed attempt to create a Rohingya state.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/myanmar-army-chief-defends-clearing-rohingya-villages-1504410530?mod=e2tw

  15. Morrissey 18

    Poor old George Stephanooulos flogging a dead horse

    Bill Clinton’s brain-dead ex-Director of Communications makes Sarah Huckabee look smarter than him…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQYjZFcs48s

  16. tracey 19

    INteresting move by Ardern to state she will move to decriminalise Abortion (as a conscience vote). In order for Bill to go home tonight he has said he thinks the current laws work really well thank you.

    Well done Ardern. Response and length of response to this will be interesting.

  17. rhinocrates 20

    Just a reminder that rapist Julian Assange is a racist too:

    https://twitter.com/helenlewis/status/904290514597498880

    He’s concerned about the decline of the white race and it’s feminism’s fault. Lovely.

    • The decrypter 20.1

      Prime news–no tax hole ya!!

    • Morrissey 20.2

      You’re repeating a slander instigated by the U.S. and British governments. Shame on you rhinocrates.

      • weka 20.2.1

        How would you interpret Assange’s tweet? Because it certainly is very weird.

        • Morrissey 20.2.1.1

          I agree with you, weka. But there is no evidence that he raped anyone. Certainly the two young women inveigled and badgered by the authorities to file those absurd charges have refuted them.

          • weka 20.2.1.1.1

            so you agree he’s racist?

            • Macro 20.2.1.1.1.1

              He’s Australian isn’t he?
              Sorry that is a slur on our cozzie bros across the ditch and I know some are very fair minded…
              But they do have (and support) some of the most outlandish immigration and racial policies.

            • Morrissey 20.2.1.1.1.2

              No, there is nothing in what he said that is racist. It was crass and sexist, but you’d have to interpret it with the malice of that Blairite shill Helen Lewis to say it was racist. Of course, poor old rhinocrates didn’t think twice before he flicked on her smug and vicious tweet.

              Julian Assange is a thoughtful and eloquent person, and he has no history of racist comments, so he deserves the benefit of the doubt over that (admittedly dodgy) tweet about childless female politicians. It’s the sort of comment that the outgoing National MPs routinely made about Helen Clark when she was prime minister.

              If you want to see what real racism looks like, have a view of this wicked and cynical speech….

        • Stuart Munro 20.2.1.2

          Assange is rubbing shoulders with some strange folk online – the Russians have identified him as a channel for some of their releases. The Russians are typically uncritically antiIslamic, cheerfully anti-Semitic, and judging by their recent actions in Chechnya, not LGBT friendly. If Assange begins to mirror those views it may reflect the company he’s keeping.

          • Morrissey 20.2.1.2.1

            “If Assange begins to mirror those views it may reflect the company he’s keeping.”

            Then the British government should grant him his liberty and let him mix with ordinary people again.

            By the way, your generic comments about “the Russians” indicate you know nothing about them.

    • Union city greens 20.3

      And a rapist, and a Trump supporter, and a hide away coward.
      No smoke without fire, no matter what the weirdos post in his defence.

  18. Union city greens 21

    And you’re in your weirdo element and apparently out of your mind. I’d say stop now, but I doubt you’re capable or if it’s even possible.

    All I know, if I were accused of rape, I’d fight through every court to prove my innocence.
    I certainly wouldn’t hide out in a foreign embassy to avoid justice.
    And I certainly wouldn’t have helped Trump get elected. What a disgrace is your hero Assange, weirdo.

    His anti feminism gives big clues about his views on women. I don’t trust him or his motives a bit.

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