Open mike 06/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, May 6th, 2019 - 145 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

145 comments on “Open mike 06/05/2019”

  1. Muttonbird 1

    Fascinating read into the anxious incompetence of supposed sound financial managers, John Key and Bill English.

    The pair of them pissed $1B down the drain.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/112420653/was-the-1b-fate-of-scf-sealed-by-this-one-simple-misunderstanding

    • WeTheBleeple 1.1

      They made policy in a day, and ditched him in a minute. Not the mates I'd ever want.

    • cleangreen 1.2

      smileysmiley two smiles for Muttonbird. absolutely correct.

       

      Show pony ShonKey was a agent of the global elite.

    • Shadrach 1.3

      From the same article:

      "But then came the 2008 global financial crisis (GFC). The Labour government was panicked into introducing the Crown retail deposit guarantee scheme to prevent a collapse in confidence in the banking and finance company sector.

      The taxpayer was suddenly underwriting savers in what mostly looked like sound businesses."

  2. Cinny 2

    Oh dear, simon thinks he has the scoop, claiming to have a leaked cabinet paper re the cannabis referendum….

    Turns out the so called leaked paper he has is out of date….. lolololz…. did any of the news agencies check the story before running it?  Will news agencies now set the story straight? If not what does that say about NZ media?

    • James 2.1

      i don’t see her posting any evidence to back up her claim. 

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.1

        "we’ve invited them to work collaboratively multiple times,"

        You reckon that's not true, James?

      • Sacha 2.1.2

        What would count as evidence?

        • Jenny - How to get there? 2.1.2.1

          "we’ve invited them to work collaboratively multiple times,"

          National are not interested in working collaboratively.

          Witness the vicious public attacks on the Green Party and the government by Todd Muller over the Zero Carbon Bill.

          Not to mention the resulting "flexible" rubber chicken that is the outcome of trying to pander to them.

          Anyone who claims they are surprised, after New Zealand's greenhouse emissions continue to rise, after the passing of the Zero Carbon Act, will be a liar.

      • Doogs 2.1.3

        TROLL Jimmy boy. The biggest Billy Goat Gruff is coming.

      • Nick 2.1.4

        james aka asswipe

    • Fireblade 2.2

      National wont release the paper or say who gave it to them. No evidence. 

      Maybe Simon had another "slushy" brain fart moment.

      • Cinny 2.2.1

        It's almost like they find some info, think it's a big scoop, do nothing to fact check and then roll with it, just like last Monday and probably the Monday before that and so on.

        Meanwhile Stuff appears to be burying the story while both paula bennet and tova o'brien are looking rather foolish on the twitter.

         

         

        • McFlock 2.2.1.1

          Probably found it in a rubbish bin and thought they were super dooper secret agents. Didn't occur to them that it might be out of date rubbish.

    • cleangreen 2.3

      Chloe, why does that not surprise me at all.
      “The paper the Nats have got hold of is out of date”

      By the way Chloe; – please tell Julie Anne that we all in HB/Gisborne support her call to lower the speed of all "dangerous roads down to an 80 kms speed to lower the deaths on these narrow winding regional potholed roads.

      You must push to restore rail passenger services around our provinces too.

      Julie Anne also needs to support us and speak for us in the press to reopen the rail services they promised us before the last election to Gisborne .

      Simply so we older retired folks can use rail safely to get to our families.

      • James 2.3.1

        By the way Chloe; – please tell Julie Anne that we all in HB/Gisborne support her call

         

        you speak for “all” do you – but full of your own importance there clean green. 

      • Sacha 2.3.2

        "By the way …"

        That's not how portfolio responsibility works.

    • Enough is Enough 2.4

      So how did they get hold of the "out of date" paper?

      Who gave it to them? 

      • SpaceMonkey 2.4.1

        They retrieved it from the shredder and won't release it because we'd see the pieces sellotaped together so they could read it… wink

      • Sacha 2.4.2

        The whisky stains may have been a clue.

    • Shadrach 2.5

      Given how the Greens are being treated as the Coalitions lap dog, I doubt Chloe would have a clue.

      • Cinny 2.5.1

        On said issue Chloe is probably the most versed of all the MP's. 

        Good on her for calling out paula's shite, once again.

        • Shadrach 2.5.1.1

          Huh?  Paula's 'shite'?  This is about an alleged leak, nothing to do with the merits or otherwise of decriminalising drugs.

          • McFlock 2.5.1.1.1

            Actually, it's about a ladder-kicking self-promoter angling for a tilt at the practically-vacant caucus leadership by releasing "leaked" out of date information when they would have had the current information if they'd accepted an invitation to actually participate in the process.

             

            • Shadrach 2.5.1.1.1.1

              Actually it's not.  It's about an irrelevant MP from an irrelevant political party claiming to know the leaked material was old but providing zero evidence. Meanwhile, the Greens continue to be Labours lap dog.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                It's about an irrelevant MP from an irrelevant political party claiming to know the leaked material was old current but providing zero evidence.

                • Shadrach

                  When has the Green Party been the largest political party in NZ?

                  That would be never.

                  When have the Greens led a government?

                  That would be never.

                  The Greens are nothing more than also rans, a repository for benefit frauds, those who misrepresent their work history, or who seem to think reclaiming the ‘c’ word is somehow virtuous. No wonder bugger all people vote for them.

                  • McFlock

                    Ah, the "look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" argument as to why paula benefit is anything other than a dumpster-diver.

                    • Shadrach

                      The issue is 'relevance'.

                    • McFlock

                      Precisely. National chose to be irrelevant on this issue, that is why their information is out of date. They should be at the table, rather than going through the rubbish bins.

                      Alluding to past glories does not hide the fact that the fractured remnants of the nat caucus are in the wastelands of opposition.

                    • Shadrach

                      So having an opposing opinion to you is 'irrelevance'.  You have a history of similar opinions McFlock.

                    • McFlock

                      No – a pretender to an opposition throne dumpster-diving to find out what happened at meetings they refused to attend is irrelevant.

                      I don't even know what Benefit's opinion on MJ is. I just know it won't affect the government decision. Therefore: irrelevant.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    So 6.3% of voters is "bugger all people" – how's that working out?

                    • Shadrach

                      In the context of the comparison you were making, yes, it is bugger all.

              • McFlock

                keep telling yourself that a coalition party's spokesperson on the relevant issue knows less about cross-party work on the issue than a fifth-rate ladder-kicker who was handed a bit of trash.

                I wonder if one of Judith's friends gave Bennett the paper, knowing it was out of date?

                • Shadrach

                  The Green Party spokesperson would know very little on any issue.  Labour treat them like shite.

                  • McFlock

                    lol no, that's how national treated its own coalition "partners". Labour are better than that at making and keeping friends. After all, that's why they're in government and Benefit isn't..

                    • Shadrach

                      National didn't need to get from 35% to form a government.  The tail (NZF) is most definitely this dog. Meanwhile, the Greens aren’t even in the pound.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      And National, the biggest party in parliament – where are they?

                      Sinking into the swamp, with millstone Simon around their neck.

                    • Shadrach

                      Drowsy, National are simply at a predictable stage of an electoral cycle in which people are more consumed with the PM's baby than with her governments failings.  It is amusing, because meanwhile nothing much gets changed, which is all good with me.  But let me ask you this.  At the same stage of the electoral cycle in 2010, where were Labour?  Around 31%, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2011_New_Zealand_general_election.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I too find National's current plight amusing, so we can agree on that.

                      Wonder how much apparent effort the ‘no mates party’ will put into courting the ‘irrelevant’ 6.3% in 2020.

                      That you’re all good with nothing much changing is a bit of a giveaway – how much longer to you reckon this golden weather can last?

                    • At the same stage of the electoral cycle in 2010, where were Labour?  Around 31%…

                      Greens were on 9%, so the left parties then were around 40%, about the same as the right parties' current 40%.  A situation also known as "Up shit creek with little prospect of winning the next election."

                    • McFlock

                      It's actually a little bit sad that many tories don't know how respectful partnerships work between colleagues who are not in complete agreement.

                      It's as if the only relationship they can envisage in that circumstance is inherently abusive, where the party with the most to lose ends up a manipulated supplicant, forced to endure incessant humiliation and exploitation from the more powerful party.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Greens were on 9%,"

                      Irrelevant.  Unless you are suggesting the Greens are Labour lacky's?

                    • Shadrach

                      "It's actually a little bit sad that many tories don't know how respectful partnerships work between colleagues who are not in complete agreement."

                      It's actually a bit sad when supporters of a government support party don't realise when they're getting screwed over.  Which is why you're getting headlines like this https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12228385.

                    • Irrelevant.  Unless you are suggesting the Greens are Labour lacky's?

                      There are two left-wing parties and two right-wing parties.  What matters is the combined support for the two parties, not the proportion of support held by an individual party.  It doesn't matter whether a 41% level of support for right-wing parties might be 40% National and 1% ACT, while a 41% level of support for left-wing parties might be 35% Labour and 6% Green. The outlook for election results is the same in both cases – screwed.

                    • Shadrach

                      "There are two left-wing parties and two right-wing parties.  "

                      Yep, you're suggesting the Green are Labour's lacky's.  Still, there is ample evidence to back you up.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      The National party has no mates – they can't even buy a decent lacky.

                      The National party lament:

                      Where have all our lackies gone
                      We’ve kicked them out, every one
                      When will we ever learn?
                      When will we ever learn?

                • greywarshark

                  Devious thinking!

      • Psycho Milt 2.5.2

        Given how the Greens are being treated as the Coalitions lap dog, I doubt Chloe would have a clue.

        It's almost comical how the ignorant are often full of confidence that people who know a lot more than them about any given subject actually don't have a clue.  Although, on reflection, I might be confusing "comical" with "depressing commentary on the state of humanity."

        • Shadrach 2.5.2.1

          Or you may simply be naively assuming Labour give a rats backside about what the Greens want.  Winston Peters has the last say, not the Greens.

          • Psycho Milt 2.5.2.1.1

            How are your opinions of relationships between the governing coalition partners relevant to the question of whether Chlöe Swarbrick "would have a clue" about issues of cannabis legalisation?

            • Shadrach 2.5.2.1.1.1

              Because the relationship is so distant that she wouldn't know whether or not the leaked document was current or old.  The Greens have been on the outer of so many decisions this government has made they are becoming a joke.

              • Your theory that the Greens in cabinet don't keep their spokeswoman on this issue up to date on cabinet's deliberations on the subject is an interesting one but not a very likely one. 

                If a party is considered a "joke" by people who would never vote for it, who in that party would care?  I doubt anyone in the ACT Party reads my opinions of David Seymour and thinks "Oh no, this means we're losing our left-wing voter base!"

  3. Sacha 3

    Trump voters were motivated by racism and sexism, not their finances. https://psmag.com/news/new-study-confirms-again-that-race-not-economics-drove-former-democrats-to-trump

    a major study published a year ago found that Trump's support among non-college-educated whites—arguably the key to his Electoral College success—was driven far more by sexism and racism than by economic anxiety.

    Now, a new study that focuses on one key constituency—white people in Iowa who voted for Barack Obama, and later for Trump—comes to that same conclusion.

    • WeTheBleeple 3.1

      Yep, it'd pay to be a seething lowlife to back that man. There's no other decent explanation to sink so low except one is bounded by hatred and ignorance and wishing to bestow blame on others for personal limitations.

    • mauī 3.2

      That'll work. Get a few university elites to tell 'em they're just a bunch of racists. And by the way we can't help or work with racist deplorables. Our work here is done.

      • WeTheBleeple 3.2.1

        I know right. Calling a racist a racist and a sexist a sexist is just plain mean. They should be able to base their lives around falsities, victimising and fear. Calling them out is victimising them.

        What these racist wife beaters need is support groups – like the US Republicans.

      • joe90 3.2.2

        Grace and decency is all well and good, but you can't meet a bigot in the middle. You can't be nice to racists in the hope that they might be nice to you and fights have always been won by fighting, not cuddling. You may not like it, but it's true.

  4. Rosemary McDonald 4

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388549/whangarei-people-with-disabilities-join-city-s-homeless

    The town's Open Arms day centre for the homeless says high rents are forcing more people on to the streets as winter approaches – and a number of them have serious disabilities.

    "Some are too immobile or in too much pain to get out of their cars to come in for lunch so we take the food out to them in the carpark," manager Sam Cassidy said.

    When RNZ paid a visit on Thursday, several regulars were toughing it out in their vehicles, with bedding crammed into the back seats.

    One older man was hunched over the driving wheel of his van in obvious discomfort.

    The 70-year-old former farm worker has been waiting years for a knee replacement, and he told RNZ he was on morphine for the pain.

    Not that it helps much, he said.

    "I can't bloody walk at the moment, eh. Might as well cut the leg off and be done with it."

    The pensioner left his rental home near Kaikohe last winter when the landlord put the rent up.

    "He wanted $200 a week for a leaky home – I couldn't pay that."

    He's been living in his van with his small dog, ever since.

    I honestly don't know what to say about this.

     Elsewhere there's a conversation developing about how badly some folk treat other folk that was triggered by an article featuring an eighty year old fired in an email.

    Welcome to 2019, old- timer.

    I guess a working eighty year old's dignity deserves greater protection than that of those who perhaps struggle to manage the basics.

    But no one deserves to be forced to live in a car.

    In pain, injured, living with significant impairments and often mental health and addiction issues.

    With a 15 year old son crammed in the back seat of the Suzuki car.

    I really don't know…so much for this coalition of kindness, this transformational government claptrap. 

    These folk aren't feeling the love, that's for sure.

    Where are the homes for the homeless Jacinda? You promised.

    (And no, sending them off to live in a motel is not the answer.)

    I despair.

    • Kay 4.1

      Rosemary, I think it's time to go on another media blackout. It's just getting too depressing again. More and more stories like this are going to keep surfacing, but seriously, what's going to change?

      Now on the 6 month countdown to the end of my lease and hoping like hell I can get it rolled over. You see, I'm not allowed to drive so I don't have a car to sleep in… why the hell are we having to live (exist) like this?? crying

      • greywarshark 4.1.1

        They are waiting for a new machine to be developed to solve the problem.  

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

          Maybe the Welfare Working Group report will be a game-changer. Chris Trotter on WWG.     https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/99513/chris-trotter-looks-how-sepulonis-welfare-reform-agenda-bumps-against-robertsons

          There is every reason for Robertson to be all over this hands-on approach to moving citizens from welfare to work. He was, after all, the man assigned the task of investigating “The Future of Work” by Labour leader, Jacinda Ardern’s, predecessor, Andrew Little. He knows full well that as artificial intelligence wipes out more-and-more middle-class professional occupations, the whole concept of a “steady, well-paid, nine-to-five job” will become increasingly archaic. The trick, politically, will be to make it possible for the same technological and scientific revolution that is wiping out all these “good” jobs to be harnessed to the task of ensuring that the emerging “gig economy” is both less individually exploitative and more socially beneficial.

          It is in this potentially game-changing context that the Ministry of Social Development might finally begin to live up to its name. The expertise it gains in assisting the least qualified and most vulnerable citizens into situations where their strengths can be maximised and their weaknesses worked around will become increasingly useful in a society where the work required to make profits for capitalists will be the preserve of intelligent machines, and the work required to sustain social, cultural and physical environments will be the preserve – and delight – of human-beings.

          • The Chairman 4.1.1.1.1

            There is every reason for Robertson to be all over this hands-on approach to moving citizens from welfare to work. 

            Seeing as around half the children living in poverty come from working households, it would be wiser for the Government to first improve work and wage conditions if they want work to be the solution.

        • cleangreen 4.1.1.2

          Yes old containers is it GWS?smiley

  5. The Chairman 5

    Govt underwhelms with welfare report response.

    Calls again being made for a new political party to better represent the left. 

    Mouthpieces of the left widely disappointed.

    Labour are proving to be unwilling to deliver. The Greens are just bloody hopeless. Is a new party of the left the answer?

     

    • greywarshark 5.1

      Barracuda cruising around waiting for victims to bite and gloat over political disappointments.

      • The Chairman 5.1.1

        This goes beyond political disappointment. This is about denying via delaying further help to real people struggling in poverty. So no, I'm not here to gloat, I'm seeking solutions. Is a new left party the answer or do you think it will be possible to encourage Labour to act with urgency?    

        • The Chairman 5.1.1.1

          No hope for progressive welfare reform from this government – Sue Bradford.

          If we’re ever going to hope for transformative and progressive welfare reform, it is now clear it will need to be championed by a party that is not yet in Parliament.

          https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/06-05-2019/no-hope-for-progressive-welfare-reform-from-this-government/?utm_source=The+Bulletin&utm_campaign=be05b653ca-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_03_01_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_552336e15a-be05b653ca-533756713

           

          • Psycho Milt 5.1.1.1.1

            No hope for progressive welfare reform from this government – Sue Bradford.

            No mandate from voters for radical welfare reform from this government – Psycho Milt.

            • The Chairman 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Where is your evidence for that?

              • Using McFlock's handy link, the evidence that voters gave no mandate for radical welfare reform:

                1. Parties supporting progressive welfare reform of any description (Labour and Green): 54 seats.

                2. Parties opposed to progressive welfare reform of any description (National, NZF, ACT): 66 seats.

                Now it's your turn (or Bradford's): what evidence is there that Labour/Green have either a mandate from voters or the numbers in Parliament to enact the radical welfare reform you'd like to see?

                • The Chairman

                  McFlock’s handy link fails to back your assertion.

                  Where is your evidence NZF are opposed?

                  This report (in the link below) counters your NZF assertion. 

                  New Zealand First has shown support for the overhaul, with Tracey Martin, a New Zealand First MP and Minister, saying the working group would be a great support to the "much needed overhaul" of the welfare system.

                  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/welfare-reform-government-announces-law-changes.html

                   

                  • Well, duh – if it wasn't willing to support these limited actions that you're turning your nose up at, the actions wouldn't be happening.  

                    The party's fundamental principles state:

                    The Welfare State must be an umbrella to meet genuine and deserving need. Government has a duty to properly determine those needs and respond to them. That said, social welfare must no longer neglect assisting recipients to become independent of the State.

                    Note the bit about welfare being for the "deserving," and the importance of making recipients independent of the state.  I'm not seeing any support for what the likes of Sue Bradford would call "progressive" reform in that.

                    • The Chairman

                      That (what you posted) doesn't counter their stated support of the "much needed overhaul." 

                    • You're not making sense.  Labour and the Greens are willing to commit to this level of action, and you call it "beyond political disappointment" and "denying help to people struggling in poverty." Sue Bradford describes it as "no hope for progressive reform."

                      NZ First are also willing to commit to this level of action, and you claim it's evidence of their commitment to progressive reform.  

                      So, is this action demonstrative of commitment to progressive reform or not?  If it is, stop bad-mouthing Labour and the Greens over it.  If it isn't, accept that NZF's fundamental principles are in opposition to the radical reform you and Bradford would prefer to see.  

                    • solkta

                      But he is not here to concern troll Winston First.

                    • The Chairman

                      The Greens, Labour, and NZF are all supportive of the report and are committed to doing more, it's the extremely long delay that goes beyond disappointment.

                      Whereas, you've claimed NZF opposes the overhaul. Which, evidently isn't so.  

                      Now you are suggesting NZF's opposition (which you have failed to prove) is the reason for the hold up. Yet, I've yet to hear the Greens, Labour or NZF claim that. Therefore, where is your evidence for this nonsense?

                      Labour are largely claiming (such as Incognito is) it is going to take years to formulate policy. Which, is total rubbish. 

                       

                    • No, I'm suggesting that the government has no mandate from voters for radical welfare reform and that's why it's taking a cautious approach.  The retirees and rural conservatives who vote NZF don't do so because of their enthusiasm for radical leftist policy, and Labour also has a considerable bloc of electoral support that is really not very left-wing.  The fact that you and Sue Bradford would like the government to pursue a far more radical agenda than it has a mandate for is worth one vote apiece, so you can expect the government to value your preference on that basis.

                    • The Chairman

                      No, I'm suggesting that the government has no mandate from voters for radical welfare reform and that's why it's taking a cautious approach.  

                      Here we go again. You've yet to prove that. Merely repeating it doesn't make it so. 

                      Sixty-five percent of New Zealand First supporters wanted the party to go with Labour. Who widely campaigned on addressing poverty and inequality. 

                      Additionally, if it were just Bradford and I that are disappointed Labour wouldn't have a problem. Unfortunately for them, the disappointment is widespread.  

                      Moreover, failing to deliver on more of the recommendations sooner will lead to their fiscal management coming under the spotlight. People will question why they aren't prepared to invest now to save the greater cost and social harm of not doing so.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      2/3 NZ1 voters supported Labour's welfare policies? OK, let's be generous and take that interpretation. 6 of NZ1's 9 seats go left.

                      labgrnNZ1(left):46+8+6 = 60

                      NACTNZ1(noreform):56+1+3 = 60

                      60:60 is not a mandate for radical welfare reform.

                       

                    • Of course I can't prove that the retirees and rural conservatives voting NZF weren't doing so in the hope that the party would promote a radical left policy agenda.  Likewise, I can't prove there aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden.  

                      However, we can have a high level of confidence that there actually aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden, and likewise we can have a high level of confidence that Winston's retirees and rural conservatives really didn't vote for his party because they felt it would promote their desire for radical left reform.  

                      Voter support for radical welfare reform comes from Green voters, a subset of Labour voters, and (presumably) a subset of NZF voters.  Most likely there were also some supporters who gave their support to sub-5% parties, but their votes don't count.  I'd question whether the voter support for Bradford-style reform was any higher than voter support for further right-wing restrictions on welfare.  In short – no mandate.

                  • RedLogix

                    I'd argue that the reason why Labour is struggling with welfare reform is simply because none of the mainstream parties have a clue how to go about it.

                    • The Chairman

                      I doubt that is the hold up.

                    • RedLogix

                      They're stuck fiddling with a fundamentally broken system. If they had a reform model that was efficient and made sense to the majority of people they would have gotten on with it by now.

                    • The Chairman

                      The report highlights what is required. Therefore, it's not that they don't have a clue.

                      They aren't stuck fiddling, they are stalling. 

                  • Incognito

                    The report is not a detailed blueprint for transformative policy. The Government needs to take in the report and design a coherent suite of policies, a policy platform, which addresses as many points raised in the report as possible as well as many others that are completely outside the report. That’s the job of the Government and it is a huge one. One of the obstacles they’ll face is that they’ll have to deconstruct to rebuild. That is never an easy thing to do in politics and comes with risk and upheaval. And it takes time!

                    People are jumping up & down in a frenzy, impatiently shrieking “Scrap this! Do that! The report!!”. As if saying “make it so” makes it so.

                    Of course, the Government is out of its depth. But they took on the job and they should bloody well get on with it (AKA let’s do this). And I think they are. I have to think so because otherwise we are utterly stuffed. As with Climate Change …

                    • The Chairman

                      I never stated the report is a detailed blueprint. But it is a comprehensive report that outlines what is required.

                      Nevertheless, I understand formulating policy will take time, but it shouldn't take years. Hence, the widespread disappointment and public uproar.

                      If Labour were wise and wanted to keep supporters onside, they will offer more in the up coming Budget. 

                      The last thing Labour will want is a new left party forming out of the growing disappointment (TPP, CGT, welfare reform etc…).

                       

                  • Incognito

                    I see, you are a policy analyst now, in fact, a whole team of senior policy analysts. You know exactly how to take the recommendations of the report and turn them into effective policy. You know how to avoid gaps, overlap, duplicity, unintended consequences, clashes with other existing and/or new policies, compliance issues with the Law, budget blowouts, etc. You know how to get these policies pushed through the political system and Parliament, if any bills or amendments are required. You know all these things and yet you don’t tell us or anybody in Government. All you do is criticise in an unconstructive manner. Your concerns lack credibility IMO.

                    • The Chairman

                       Again, nobody is expecting them to deliver it tomorrow, but as the report highlights, it requires urgent attention and Labour are not acting with urgency, hence the uproar.

                      This failure to act with urgency will lead to a lot of avoidable social ills and cost the lives of a number of those struggling. It's shameful.

                  • Incognito

                    I see, you want Labour to run around like headless chickens giving the impression of urgency and immediate action while serious policy professionals burn the midnight oil to draft policy. What exactly do you want Labour to do urgently, Mr Policy Analyst? Should they call a National Emergency, cancel all rugby matches and flights in and out of Wellington until all recommendations of the report have been fully tested and implemented? Or should they continue to govern this country whilst absorbing the report and putting a coherent plan together? I hear you roar and bark but very little of substance seems to emanate from you.

                    • The Chairman

                      I said act with urgency (not headless chickens) as the report recommended. So you do understand this isn't just coming from me a single voice in the crowd? Seems you missed my little tutorial on Labour trolls.

                      Lifting benefits (and all interrelated criteria) must be done first and foremost.   

                  • Incognito

                    Again, you offer nothing constructive and of substance. You act like an impatient petulant child chanting “Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?”. Ad infinitum. You feel bolstered because of other ignorant children chanting the same tune. You understand that repeating your own lines it does not make it happen? You understand that your ‘tutorials’ are simply rants? You understand that engaging Government is a little more nuanced than simply stating demands and ‘huffing & puffing’ when they don’t respond immediately?

                    For the record, benefits need to be lifted and brought into line with wages and CoL. You see, I even agree with you …

            • Stuart Munro. 5.1.1.1.1.2

              There wasn't any mandate for asset sales either. Didn't seem to trouble the pollies.

              • alwyn

                That is untrue Stuart, and you know it.

                National listed the assets they proposed to sell if they were re-elected in 2011. They did it prior to the election. Well they were elected and they did sell the assets. Your mates in the current Government claimed they were going to buy them back, didn't they?

                Well how is that going?

                • Stuart Munro.

                  First of all, there had been plenty of polling which show in excess of 75% of people opposed asset sales. And then there was the 2013 referendum which also indicated asset sales lacked a popular mandate, 67% being opposed. A referendum the corrupt Key Kleptocracy naturally ignored.

                  "That is untrue Stuart, and you know it." 

                  What I know Alwyn, is that you don't have a leg to stand on and as usual you have resorted to making shit up.

        • cleangreen 5.1.1.2

          Good luck with that Chairman.”encourage Labour to act with urgency?”

          No Labour is being run by the treasuy surely you can see that.

          • The Chairman 5.1.1.2.1

            So where to for the left from here, cleangreen?

            If Labour’s response to the Welfare Report results in a big slide in their polling, do you think that will encourage them to change?

        • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.3

          To think, not long ago I was on the verge of rejoining the Labour Party.

          Two things made me hold off, despite the promises of transformational change and the grand plans – most of which I am/was in agreement with, and which 'resonated' with coalition partners. I'll probably still have to continue with Labour/left (maybe) because, as always it's becoming evident it might be the least worst option

          But, the first thing was when being unintentionally stuck half/quarter way up a himalaya unintentionally doing a Ben Fogle for a few months and receiving a sibling/Jacinda Adern's "selfie' at a gorgeous post-election Martinborough Conference.  All around me, and half a world away, people and families had been adversely affected in some way by all the "best practice" of NZ (and OZ, UK, and to a lesser extent, Canadian Immigration policy) – i.e. truly ripped off as a result of false promises, outright lying, lack of basic government oversight, and what amounts to the same sort of 19thCentury colonial thinking. In many cases, those "best practice" policies had been just as devastating as the large international corporate impact on farming and subsistence living right throughout families beneath central and north western Himalyan areas – indebtedness, desperation (leading to) suicides, the works!  In fact, quite obviously under the previous gNat junta, it had all been not just enabled, but also encouraged. The bizzniss of shitty immigration, shoddy tertiary education, exploitative work practices, ticket clipping – in some cases worse than one expects from 3rd World places.

          Yes!  I L-G is a nice guy; J A is a nice compassionate lady; I L-G had himself been exploited and knows what's going on; the gNats have left such a shambles that needs to be fixed, and Rome wasn't built in a day.

          And then all that leading to the second. Given all the above, and the apparent awareness among Labour politicians of all the problems left by a decade or more of bullshit, of under-funding and under-resourcing, an apparent lack of awareness of those complicit and encouraging the dysfunction.

          I think I've given enough time for sufficient 'conversations' out of which there have been a number of 'learnings' (and as I think I heard JA say on RNZ MR last Thursday or Friday ), some 'resonations' – which presumably means agreements.

          The Natives are getting restless, and it'd be a big bloody shame for Labour to piss their political capital (which is well on the credit side of the ledger) up against the wall, on the trivial – especially when there are some really easy things that they could be doing that don't require legislative change that'd earn a few brownie points. Perhaps the problem might be that JA and cohorts are too nice – alternatively that they're a little bit naive.

          Meantime, in the absence of anything else, it'll be a case of the least worst option, but it's all a bit reminiscent of a staunch Labour father-in-law abandoning the party when it embraced the neo-liberal religion.

           

           

          , despite

          • The Chairman 5.1.1.3.1

            Meantime, in the absence of anything else, it'll be a case of the least worst option…

            It will no doubt be the position of a number on the left. 

             

            • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.3.1.1

              Well that, AND simply more and more becoming disengaged and staying away from the polling booth.

              The worst part of it all is that it's not as though Labour and its partners don't have a few quite smart cookies within their ranks. Especially when you contrast it all with the current gNat crop on the front bench.

              Like I said, from what I can see, the natives are becoming quite restless whilst the bubblistas continue to sup.

              In fact, despite Winnie's fatherly oversight and willingness to protect the current star (who deservedly does have all that star status), I would'nt be surprised if there are a few in NZ1 who're beginning to worry about a bit of the namby pamby-ism. After all, NZ1 have made a few 'compromises' as well when they signed up to it all.

              We'll see I 'spose. We get the politicians (and the bullshit artists) we deserve……and apparently, we don't know how lucky we are 

               

    • rod 5.2

      Charman, where did you get that load of crap. Hosking or Hooton ?

      • The Chairman 5.2.1

        From left leaning mouthpieces and social advocates on NZ social media.

        The Governments inaction over the Welfare Report is going down like a cup of cold sick.

        Moreover, their failure to address more of the reports recommendations looks fiscally irresponsible as the savings it produced going forward would outweigh the cost of investing more now.

        • WeTheBleeple 5.2.1.1

          " their failure to address more of the reports recommendations looks fiscally irresponsible as the savings it produced going forward would outweigh the cost of investing more now."

          Absolutely.

          • The Chairman 5.2.1.1.1

            Labour and the Greens made all this song and dance about their BRR and being fiscally responsible to avoid attacks from the right, only to now act fiscally irresponsible, gifting National more ammo to shoot them down with. Go figure?

            Seems they'd rather risk their fiscal reputation than act fiscally responsible and help the poor.

          • cleangreen 5.2.1.1.2

            smiley yes WTB

            "Penny wise pound foolish"

             

        • rod 5.2.1.2

          So who are these left leaning mouthpieces chairman, speak up we are waiting.surprise

  6. greywarshark 6

    A post on TDB on hate speech, George Orwell, Phil Quin, Stuff and Golriz Ghahraman  by Chris Trotter in April 2019.   I think Trotter makes good points.  (For those who didn't see it earlier.)     https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/04/15/recognising-hate-speech-when-you-see-it/

    In an alternative universe, only slightly different to this one, Ghahraman would be leading the charge against kneejerk demands for blanket curbs on hate speech. She would be reminding New Zealanders of what it actually involves: radio stations broadcasting instructions to “kill the cockroaches” (i.e. the Tutsis). She would explain how these incitements to genocide were preceded by many months of unrestrained racial vilification across all media.

    n that universe, Ghahraman would be calming down her more zealous followers: warning them that unreasoning zealotry is always the problem – never the solution. She would also be reassuring them that New Zealand’s statute books already contain plenty of legal remedies against dangerously hateful expression.

    The reason why the Green Party leadership should pay heed to Quin’s biting criticism of Ghahraman’s failure to supply much-needed guidance on this issue, is because he is very far from the only person expressing misgivings about the Greens’ justice spokesperson.

    (I like the quote that Trotter picked:

    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” ― George Orwell (goodreads)

    • Gabby 6.1

      So the Trotsker reckons hate speech is the truth? Lovely.

      • In Vino 6.1.1

        Super-cynicism there Gabby, but maybe he is saying that Hate Speech is linked to fear or dislike of the truth? Usually it is linked to a false truth, to my mind.

        So now we have Fake Truth. ?

  7. Kevin 7

    Hmmmm, despotic leader, implementation of sharia based law, shit loads of oil…

    Anyone told John Bolton?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/05/brunei-says-it-will-not-enforce-lgbt-gay-sex-death-penalty-after-backlash?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    • Morrissey 7.1

      Appreciate your point, Kevin, but let's be clear about this: Bolton is in no way a morally superior or more responsible person than the Sultan of Brunei or anyone else.

      Hell, even Prince Jeffie is a saint compared to Bolton.

      https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/brunei-sultans-salacious-family-secret/news-story/8ba6a2827705c8a699f01335487b2649

      • cleangreen 7.1.1

        smiley To morrissey. Bolton is a 'industry armament agent' initiating more war, 

    • Peter Christchur8 7.2

      The sooner we find an alternative to oil, the better. Not just for environmental reasons, but political as well.

      Where would all these evil dictatorships be without the oil to prop up their insanity? 

      • cleangreen 7.2.1

        smileyAgreed peter,

        Behind big oil is the road freight industry and the truck building industry, so they are layered interest groups all pushing to use more oil so their profit rises.

        They all hate rail as it uses far less oil and use no tyres that are produced using oil as well, so that is why rail is given the heave ho by these criminals sadly. 

  8. greywarshark 9

    The public cheated of building use because of inadequate design allowing for robust and practical use in a coastal position which has led to toxicity and now likely demolishment 20 years later after years of deterioration.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/110570207/at-least-16-years-of-leaks-revealed-for-kapiti-library-now-closed-due-to-mould (February 2019)

    and
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/112427024/its-a-writeoff-kpiti-coast-council-reveals-yet-another-leaky-mouldy-building (May 2019)
    Councillor Scott serves up the indigestible facts on the Paraparaumu library.

    ""They're proposing to spend $1.2m on a building worth $1.2m. The only money we should be spending is to run a bulldozer over it.""

    This is the second Kapiti Coast council building to be affected.   Who were the prime movers involved in enabling the building of these with new unproved systems?

    In February, it was revealed 16 years of known leaks led to last year's closure of the Waikanae library due to toxic mould.  About 27,000 books were decontaminated but its reopening date remains unclear.

    The background to the building of the Paraparaumu Library.  

    In 1998 the Council agreed to site a new library to the northwest of the Rimu Road council building. This decision reopened questions about a vision for a town centre – and plans for the new library were temporarily put on hold. In April 2001, councillors voted unanimously for the new library concept plan – with a focus for community pride and awareness.

    Fletcher Construction received the contract to build the new library designed by Warren and Mahoney Architects.   The new Paraparaumu Public Library opened in November 2002.    https://www.kapiticoast.govt.nz/libraries/my-library/about-the-library/history-mission-statement/

    Ironically in April this year there was a meeting there to discuss the problems and hazards of 5g EMF.    So while the public are trying to deal with degraded building standards for structures we have been building for centuries, now with perverted methods, they are confronted with new and dangerous future-changing and very likely toxic technology looming over them.   Coping with all this, trying to comprehend;  how hard, how difficult!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_homes_crisis

    https://www.prendos.co.nz/leaky-buildings-hide-their-secrets/  

    Harry [Harry Dillon, Property consultant with Prendos] questions whether untreated timber framing and various cladding systems should ever have been permissible under New Zealand construction law (use of untreated timber framing in houses has been largely banned since July 2011). The problem was already known in Canada, where it is called “leaky condo syndrome”, he says, and Canadians are now going back to fix what they thought they had already fixed years ago as we are now doing in New Zealand too….

    What causes leaky buildings? (See panel.) Harry puts it down to people opting for the cheapest price, and being willing to accept cheaper untreated wood from dominant timber companies. It was also poor design coupled with a drive to maximise the house size on its footprint, typically using Tuscan-styled architecture. Couple these to a general lack of knowledge and skill and a 1991 performance-based building code that permitted “fit-for-purpose” product to be used, and you can have leaky buildings.

     

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=2847786 Lessons our Builders should have learned.   September 2002

    The [Canadian] Barrett commission [1998 and 2000] estimated there were serious leaks in about 25 per cent of British Columbia's condominiums (multi-unit apartments or developments) built from 1980-99. Experts later estimated that more than half leaked, and one report put the problem rate as high as 90 per cent….

    Canada's experience is effectively the blueprint for New Zealand's leaky building crisis. When the building industry here belatedly woke up to the problem in March, [2002] it called in experts from Vancouver to lead a "weathertightness" conference in Auckland.

  9. adam 10

    So the war on terrorism was started with the death of 3 and a half thousand US citizens lives. 

    But the US can kill near on 40,000 in Venezuela via sanctions in two year. The real kicker is that media tells us the democratically elected government in Venezuela is evil. 

    Simply put, which no doubt someone will work out a weaselly way to side track this – the US sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1905/S00001/40000-dead-venezuelans-under-us-sanctions-media-ignores.htm

  10. The Chairman 12

    NZEI vice president Liam Rutherford says the results send a clear message to the Government, now is the time to do something.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/public-overwhelmingly-backs-more-money-for-teachers-poll.html

  11. Adrian Thornton 14

    Great interview from RT with one of the greatest political cartoonists of any period, Steve Bell…about the only thing with any credibility left on The Guardian.

  12. rod 15

    Mondays on Morning Report sounds more like a party political broadcast on behalf of the National Party,  who the hell is running RNZ National ? I thought the Silver Fox had gone.

  13. Ad 16

    Crap ring Jacinda.

     

    Send him back to the shops.

     

    1.5 e  colour, VVS1, or better.

    Come on team.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 16.1

      Didn't pick you for a fashionista!

      Recycling (a family heirloom) might be preferable to consumerism – walking the talk smiley

  14. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute  

  15. This bad weather that went through America was not well published trump suppressing our reality once again the Papatuanukue has to act NOW to save our decendints future. PLEASE PEOPLE. 

     

    We’re talking about an event here of historic proportions, circumstances that nobody ever recalls ever happening in their lifetime,” said Steve Wellman, the Nebraska Department of Agriculture director and third-generation. 

     

    The “bomb cyclone” – an intense winter storm – that swept through the US in March followed record-breaking cold in January and unprecedented snow in February. Huge blocks of loose ice jammed waterways, and the Missouri river swelled, topping levees in four states, and breaking DAMS Ka kite ano links below.

     

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/27/us-farmers-count-cost-of-catastrophic-bomb-cyclone-in-midwest  P. S Hope the hard working farmers are given the correct tools to servive this 

  16. Ka pai Hohepa I hope your voice can rise above the many others Ki Kaha 

     

    Last week, he was announced as the newest member of the the country's highest bench.

    He's previously held roles as the Chief Judge of the Māori Land Court and chair of the Waitangi Tribunal – and was appointed as a Judge of the Court of Appeal last year.

    "It's a big leap from the Court of Appeal to the Supreme Court, to the last court, and of course being the first Māori always creates expectations that will undoubtedly not be met, but I'll do my best," he said.

    "I am kind of excited and a little afraid for how the future will play out. 

    Justice Williams said it was important that Māori in the courts came to see their culture was valued, and it was up to the system to signal that it valued Māori culture.

    He wanted to see more tikanga Māori and culture and identity programmes in prisons, and cultural training also needed to be targeted at officials, he said.

    "I think it is happening and it needs to happen quickly, not just the prison population but those who create the prison population – the officials, the corrections officers, the probation officers, all the way through to the judges.

    "Once people at the bottom of the pile see that they are valued, my experience is that that brings quite an important shift in attitude amongst those people."

    He said it could be as simple as pronouncing Māori names and place names correctly, understanding concepts of whanaungatanga, mana, tapu and local whakpapa Ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/388649/first-maori-on-the-supreme-court-bench-wants-a-focus-on-his-culture

     

  17. Here's a good story about the sad state OUR Papatuanukue and her creature are in at the minute if we act now we can pull back from the brink of Extinction . 

    There is no need to make mitigateing climate change to complex KEEP IT SIMPLE. 

    Stop using carbon plastic and recycle everything . At this point in time the only environmental engineering that is smart and simple is design everything to minimise waste and the waste of energy  just getting rid of the inefficiency can save millions of tons of carbon emissions being pumped into OUR atmosphere. 

    May be paint our roofs white but major geo engineering project are only going to pump more carbon into our atmosphere they are just a blind from the carbon barron designed to make us think that we can carry on burning carbon and geo engineering is going to save us but know we have to make sacrifices in our way of living to combat climate changes small price to pay to protect our Mokopuna futures. 

     

    The Guardian picture essay

    'The future of life on Earth lies in the balance' – a picture essay

    Almost 600 conservation experts have signed a letter by the wildlife charity WWF, published to coincide with UN report into loss of biodiversity 

    Overfishing

    “We are overfishing our oceans at an alarming rate and choking them with plastic and other pollutants. If we want to see healthy seas that will continue to provide us with food, we need to stop this over-exploitation, protect our incredible marine environments and make sustainable fishing the norm, as we see here. Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/07/the-future-of-life-on-Earth-lies-in-the-balance-a-picture-essay P.S we need to invest heavily into combating climate change

     

  18. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute  

    They are saving carbon now Whanau 

  19. Kia ora Newshub. 

    Congratulat on the new pepi tama. 

    I think that it's good sacking the health board of Waikato hospital it been a bit of a mess there lately. 

    HUMANS have disrespected our wildlife and environmental for long enough it time for a change in our attitudes and the ways in how we live its a couple of decades out because of oil barron suppression of the truth about human caused climate change.

    We all know that trump cannot resist grabbing good publicity from Rakau Ka pai it's good for multicultural tangata all around te Papatuanukue Kia kaha Rakau. 

    Ka kite ano 

     

  20. Kia ora Te ao Maori News  

    Condolences to the Whanau of   the Maori leader who's has pasted his tangi was in Rotorua sorry I miss his name my te reo and Mokopuna are at fault Kia ora . 

    Just so long as Maori stop being turned into jailbird because weed a medicine is illegal at the minute what a stupid law. 

    I support the people protesting about tangata not getting the correct treatment for their cancers at the Beehive.

    Tangata whenua O tairawhiti the ones that know the correct history are still greaveing so is Eco Maori about the stuff that was served up to us by the Crown if they want Cooks statue removed and put in a museum so be it Kia kaha Ka kite ano 

  21. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    It gives me a sore face when I see all the tangata whenua teeth Kia kaha 

  22. Kia ora The AM Show. 

    Cameron it cool that you are checking out your whakpapa.

    I think you idea about the youth serving one year in the army no. But one year in civil training and the army teaching trades would be awesome for OUR youths Wairua.

    I say that teaching the youth about respect in school is a must the early the better 9 yeas old would be good . 

    A lot of children with behaviour problems get the imbalances of their chemicals make up from birth when the mother is a drug addict pharmaceutical drugs pee ect its stuffs up the children now everyone's wondering why we have heaps of lost wayward children .

    I agree with Verity our new government has made changes for the better it ain't perfect but people's lives are getting better slowly. Ka kite ano 

  23. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

    Thanks to all the tangata that Tau toko Eco Maori from here and around the Papatuanukue 

  24. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute. 

    Whanau everythings cool just fixing the Waka 

  25. Kia ora Newshub . 

    There you go Whanau simon and national useing the housing short they created to damage our new government Mana go figure  

    Farmers have to be included in our climate change mitigatetion as they are big greenhouse gas emitters if we don't get our farmers emissions down we will have a hard time meeting our Paris agreements..

    Mike some people have no care  of others people wellbeing ripping those poor foreign workers off is unethical respect is need . 

    I wonder if trumps m8 sold up their shares yesterday .

    That ausse bloke who flooded the hotel in Australia it shows me how the hard drugs stuff you up don't touch the shit whanau . 

    Ka kite ano 

  26. Kia ora Te ao Maori News  

    Its a sad day when tangata whenua lose a leader he was a te reo tohunga .

    Its gives Eco Maori a sore face seeing our government committing to combat climate change and setting targets for our fast reduction of green House gas emissions  I it's about te Mokopuna.

    I agree a few small changes can make a whare dry and warm thermal drapes ruggs and blocking drafts I most times end up having to do that mahi to my whare shut all windows at 5 pm to

    Ka pai Turanga health checking the Whanau vehicles to make sure they have the pepi car seats installed correctly. 

    Ka kite ano 

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