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Open mike 06/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 6th, 2016 - 240 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

240 comments on “Open mike 06/03/2016 ”

  1. Sanctuary 1

    Man, does the whining of the Key fanbois ever stop at home? The entire pro-National press is having the biggest sulk right now -http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/77586027/editorial-why-we-kiwis-are-such-a-sad-and-cynical-bunch-when-presented-with-the-chance-of-a-lifetime

    I can’t believe how ridiculous our media is.

    • BLiP 1.1

      Seems to be something of an MSM meme to insult New Zealanders by calling them childish and immature unless they vote for John Key’s flag . . .

      . . . And far greater than my disappointment in Lockwood’s imperfect flag is my disappointment in how childishly we’ve handled the debate . . . Perhaps we’re not so mature after all. And don’t you hate missed opportunities?

      ^^^ From the New Zealand Fox News Herald.

      • Awww C-mon 1.1.1

        “unless they vote for John Keys flag…”

        I think childish and immature is a perfect description for comment BLiP

        • BM

          Yeah, the way some left wingers and their mates in the media have behaved has been really disappointing.

          Right from Day one you heard nothing but negativity, how no one is interested, what a waste of money this is, John Key is evil, blah, blah.

          You could tell the prime objective was to ruin the flag debate not because they loved the old flag but because they thought National could get some good publicity from it and that was just unthinkable.

          As Tame said, what a wasted opportunity.

          • Awww C-mon

            I agree BM,

            this was lost very early on too:


            and since it’s all about Key’s legacy and not about a national conversation how about this?


            • greywarshark

              That’s sweet. We are providing a lovely little gathering place for all the idle pompous or perkily ignorant RWs. A sort of drop-in centre for them to meet and sit around with their fellow brain-dead drop-outs where they can swap amusing stories about those who are still trying for a country where there is a place and a living for all, even the deadheads.

            • Gabby

              I missed the review – when did that happen then?

              • Awww C-mon

                I know it’s difficult Gabby, but if you double click the link, and read the article it starts like this

                “Labour would reintroduce 10-year passports and review the national flag, if elected later this month.”

                Didn’t happen though huh….

                • Gabby

                  I know you’re thick, Awwk Kwawwk, but that’s what I just said. Have a flying dildo.

                  • Awww C-mon

                    Now Now Gabby, no need to get all personal and nasty…

                    But then again, its about all you have isn’t it.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke


                      Can anyone say “mentally deficient”, or would that risk becoming “personal and nasty”? That’s the problem with hypocrites: you don’t know when you’re lying.

          • ScottGN

            You can blame everybody else all you like. And accusing everyone else except the PM of politicising a referendum on a constitutional matter is pretty rich.

            Personally I reckon the whole thing fell apart right about when (a poll-driven) Key yeah-nahed over Red Peak. That was certainly when I lost any confidence in the process.

            If the vote is for no change then the blame for that will be laid squarely at the feet of the prime minister. And in years to come this sorry episode will surely be taught in political studies classes as a textbook example of how not to conduct a referendum on a constitutional matter.

            • BM

              That’s right.

              We had Andrew Little being a complete fuckwit by submitting a bill to try and get the whole process changed because it was “such a waste of money”.

              Then we had a internet petition led by the Greens trying to get Red Peak on the ballot paper, because they believed the best flag was not selected.

              To try and get the process back on track, John Key then changes the rules to include red peak because he wanted the most popular flag to be chosen.

              Seriously, you accuse John Key of politicising the process 🙄


              • ScottGN

                There you go, FIFY

                “To try and salvage, what, even then, was looking like an unmitigated political disaster, John Key then flip-flops on the the rules to include red peak because he wanted the most popular flag to be chosen.”

                • BLiP

                  But not before he lied about the political fall out he was having to deal with at the time . . .

                  If the “Red Peak” design does not get on the ballot paper the sole person responsible for that is Andrew Little

                  . . . which is forming part of the “its Labour’s fault” excuse being pumped out for the reason this has been one big FAIL for National Ltd™

          • saveNZ

            BM – if the government wanted to engage people then actually not running it as a political vanity project and having Julie Christie known for her tasteless TV and not much else and on the judging panel might have helped from turning it into a farce.

            If NZ are to spend an enormous amount of money changing our flag, I would have liked it to have been professionally designed and judged by a panel with significant art and design experience, not just a panel of government ‘yes’ groupies and supporters.


            • BM

              if NZ are to spend an enormous amount of money changing our flag, I would have liked it to have been professionally designed and judged by a panel with significant art and design experience, not just a panel of government ‘yes’ groupies and supporters.

              The “vast amount of expense” is money paid to NZ post, a government owned business.
              There is no great expense.

              Also, the panel of government ‘yes’ groupies and supporters, they were chosen by a cross party group of MPs


              What you’re saying is utter nonsense.

              • saveNZ

                Why is Key so nervous then?

                Why is the government ringing so many people to make them ‘support the flag’. Apparently Iprent was approached to give it the ‘nod’.

                Sounds more like political interference to me.

              • McFlock

                So the government keeps all the money it pays to nzpost?
                No printers, paper manufacturers, mail sorters and carriers see a dime?

                In FY end 2015 NZ post had revenue of $1.6billion, operating profit of $143milion, and returned a dividend to the government of $5million.

                So of $26million, $23million is expense, $2.6million is kept by NZ post, and maybe a hundred thousand is returned directly to the government’s coffers as dividend.

          • swordfish

            @ BM

            I see. So, on the one hand, you’re frequently here telling us that Labour and the broader Left are completely out of touch and no one bothers listening to them anymore. The phone, you always tell us, is off the hook.

            And yet now, on the other, you’re implying that Labour and the Left have some sort of hold over the voting public, their “negativity” apparently able to “ruin the flag debate”, leading to “a wasted opportunity”.

            Apparently, according to the underlying logic of your argument, the New Zealand public initially couldn’t wait to vote for a new flag, giving National “some good publicity”, but then those negative Labour bastards come along and somehow, despite being so out of touch, and deeply disliked and past their use-by date, manage to exert a remarkable influence over the wider populace.

            So much so that a fairly consistent two-thirds of the Country are opposed to a flag change and 60% consider the Lockwood design to be of poor quality.

            Darn it !!!, those negative Lefties have even managed to exert an unholy influence over half or more of National voters according to the Polls !!! Is there no end to their Machiavellian scheming ???

            You mark my words, Little’s behind this !!! And behind him, why nothing less than an International Communist Conspiracy of unfathomable proportions !!!

        • BLiP

          Now now . . . no need to cry. Consider the facts instead. Here’s part of the reason why Labour withdrew support for the attempted change of flag and how John Key became so intimately involved in the process that he couldn’t be separated from the final design chosen . . .

          • Awww C-mon


            wow, a select committee process that Mallard was unhappy with, shit you’ve never have expected that!

            So, can you help with finding any other country that changed a flag via any kind of referendum? Our have the rest just been by a majority vote in Parliament?

            How dare that nasty right wing bastard Key give you a say!

            • One Anonymous Bloke


              We need better wingnuts.

            • BLiP

              The whole process has been less about giving people a say than it has been about manipulating people into giving John Key a vanity legacy. I would have had more respect for him if he had stuck to his true character and just foisted the decision on the country like he did with the TPP.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                There was never any chance of someone as grotesquely divisive as Key being able to lead this process. Too many people are utterly disgusted by his behaviour.

        • Gangnam Style

          John Key will have to come up with a new legacy soon. Maybe he shouldn’t believe his own hype?

      • Paaparakauta 1.1.2

        The editorial penned by “JONATHAN MILNE, SUNDAY STAR-TIMES EDITOR”
        ends with
        “Now it’s 2016 and time to vote in the final referendum of the debate. I’m still a little bit idealistic and long on robust opinions … and my opinion now is that we Kiwis just aren’t yet mature enough as a nation to choose a flag of our own that represents us among the grown-ups on the world stage.
        Go on, prove me wrong.”

        I’m amused with Key’s obsession with rugby’s silver fern at a time when more than 70 doctors and university researchers are calling for a ban on tackling in rugby matches played in schools

        .. with increased risk of dementia

        … report downloadable in pdf
        http://www.englandrugby.com/…/ EnglandProfessionalRugbyInjurySurveillanceProjectReport2013_20…

        with lots of supporting evidence at

        • mikesh

          “Now it’s 2016 and time to vote in the final referendum of the debate. I’m still a little bit idealistic and long on robust opinions … and my opinion now is that we Kiwis just aren’t yet mature enough as a nation to choose a flag of our own that represents us among the grown-ups on the world stage.
          Go on, prove me wrong.”

          The question is whether we are “mature enough” to wait until we get a design worth adopting instead of rushing in and changing the the flag simply for the sake of doing so.

      • b waghorn 1.1.3

        The thing the fool tame misses is that key made it about key. If he had put the process in place then stayed completely publicly silent on his choice as a true leader would ,we would not have ended up with this debacle.

        • BLiP

          Yep – bang on. John Key overrode the cross-party flag consideration panel’s consensus decision on how to proceed, John Key said he wanted a silver fern, John Key said he preferred the black’n’blue option, and John Key has been wearing that option as a lapel pin ever since. Its John Key’s flag.

        • Paul

          Tame is being groomed by the establishment to take Hosking’s mantle as chief propagandist.

      • Ffloyd 1.1.4

        John Sargent Taranaki News. “New Zealanders fought for freedom, to grow and gain INDEPENDENCE OF THOUGHT ABOVE ALL ELSE” Ironical! In that case he and others should just shut up and let us have our INDEPENDENT thoughts without this barrage of opinions, columns, videos and so on supporting Key’s new lapel badge. It appears that there has been a Master Column sent out and all pro-new flag contributors just vary the language a little bit and publish. Formulaic and lazy. As for the Dan Carter et al masterpiece on TVNZ last night, that was just plain cynical. There is absolutely no balance out there in the NEWS? world. John Key running scared. Does not like to be beaten. Using all means at his disposal. Win at all cost! The Herald is a joke, and not a funny one.

      • Paul 1.1.5

        Looks and smells like propaganda to me.
        How do people like Tame and Milne sleep at night?

        • Draco T Bastard

          Probably quite well on their mattress of ill-gotten gains.

          • Paul

            When ill gotten gains were recovered

            • Draco T Bastard

              And several other times throughout history. Unfortunately, history isn’t on our side as most societies that are preyed upon by the rich simply collapse.

      • John Shears 1.1.6

        And the MSM expect me to believe what a 28year old first generation whiz kid? says about which flag I should vote for.
        Give me a break mate.

    • Paaparakauta 1.2

      I scent a whiff of panic among rural conservatives to whom the old adage applies – “nationalism the last refuge of the scoundrel”. Key was never one of you, but now you are hoist on your own petard ..

  2. Paaparakauta 2

    Annette King will be starring at the Newtown Festival today, somewhere near the intersection of Constable St. & Riddiford Rd.


  3. The Chairman 3

    Australian regulators are suing ANZ Bank for allegedly manipulating a key market interest rate.

    Sources said ANZ offered more than A$50 million ($55 million) to settle, but refused to agree to a demand that it admit to manipulating the rate.


    A banking insider claimed some New Zealand banks made up to $1.5 million a day manipulating inter-bank interest rates.

    Sources claim manipulation in New Zealand dated from the 1990s.

    But no domestic regulator has ever launched an investigation.



    • Ad 3.1

      ANZ have already paid their fine here.

      Spare me ANZ are part of a cartel in a boom and their share price just sucks over the year.

      • The Chairman 3.1.1

        “ANZ have already paid their fine here.”

        How could they? No domestic regulator has ever launched an investigation.

        • Colonial Viper

          and why should these big banks avoid admitting their culpability, and why should their senior bank execs not face a jury trial.

    • Penny Bright 3.2

      New Zealand URGENTLY needs an Independent Commission Against Corruption.

      Penny Bright
      2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

      • Awww C-mon 3.2.1

        Agree totally Penny, I mean, imagine a mayoral candidate for NZ’s largest city having friends solicit PRIVATE donations!!

        “I’m sure if you need financial help for all this the will be Pennies from heaven for Penny ..many many will “give a little”

        “as one of Penny Bright closest friends would be great if you and others thinking similarly got in touch with her ‘privately’ re your very succinct observation..”

        and totally in public on a FB page, just blatant corruption with no shame or fear!!

        • Penny Bright

          Aww C-mon – please pay attention – because I’m getting tired of repeating this information :

          All donations to my previous Auckland Mayoral campaigns (2010 and 2013) have been disclosed in compliance with the Local Electoral Act.

          I am awaiting advice from Election Services as to the lawful requirements of campaign funding through ‘Give a Little’ campaigns (and the like).

          My campaign funding for my 2016 Auckland Mayoral campaign has not yet begun, and I have not yet authorised any such fundraising.

          I carry out the work that I choose to do as a self-funded anti-corruption / anti-privatisation ‘Public Watchdog’ as a private citizen, and receive no tax payer or ratepayer funding for so doing.

          I am NOT on any taxpayer funded ‘social welfare benefit’.

          What has greatly contributed to my knowledge and understanding of ‘corruption’ and ‘transparency’ has been my attendance and participation at five international anti-corruption conferences.

          Friends, family and supporters of the anti-corruption work I do have gifted money as private individuals to help cover conference registration and workshop costs, airfares and accommodation.

          This has meant no cost to either taxpayers or ratepayers.

          (After campaigning since 2009 for NZ to ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption – this finally occurred on 1 December 2015.
          I am glad to have helped in achieving that outcome – because – in my view, NZ now has a whole new anti- corruption ‘tool box’ that we can use to help fight corruption, to which NZ can now be held accountable.)

          When I’m the Mayor of Auckland I shall complete the information required for the ‘Registration of Interests’ – which – in my view, should be a mandatory legal requirement for not just elected representatives, but all staff responsible for property and procurement, and Directors and Executive staff of Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs).

          Kind regards

          Penny Bright
          2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            What did you do to “help”? Oh, that’s right, you made a lot of false allegations and smeared a lot of people.

            • Penny Bright

              Like to back up your unsubstantiated allegations with some FACTS and EVIDENCE?

              Penny Bright
              2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

              • Awww C-mon

                One name Penny

                John Banks

                Folk here may not be Banksy fans but your smears and false allegations of him were appalling,

                • Paul

                  Do you support Banks?

                  • Awww C-mon

                    Not in Auckland so never had to consider him as a Mayor, I haven’t voted Act before and find him rather annoying to listen to.

                    So while I think he has been treated poorly, I wouldn’t go as far as to say I support him.

                    However that is irrelevant to my point, Penny asked for proof and he is a great example of her double standards.

                    • Paul

                      But you are a National and John Key supporter.

                    • Awww C-mon

                      Yeah, So?

                      What is your point? My arguments are irrelevant if I don’t share your political view?

                      Penny can slander Banks and so long as he doesn’t complain its OK in her books, or if someone who has voted National complains it doesn’t matter either?

                      [If your next post here does not provide links to evidence of Penny Bright having slandered John Banks, take the next week off from posting here – BLiP]

                    • Awww C-mon


                      Considering charges were over turned

                      3 March 2013 ” it appears that if you are a politician helping to hold the ‘balance of power’ – you are politically protected at the highest levels.”

                      that’s a significant allegation, which has NO basis in fact

                      5 December 2013, “Memory Lane to counter more John Banks’ amnesia?”

                      What amnesia, he was telling the truth

                      Sorry, forgot to add, Not linking those last two, they are on FB

                      I find it interesting that I get threatened with a week off so quickly, bit precious aren’t you

                      [Right so she hasn’t slandered John Banks. You are banned for one week. BLiP]

                    • Paul

                      It means a lot.
                      It means you supported the TPP.
                      It means you supported the sale of our assets to the wealthy and overseas interests
                      It means you don’t care about growing inequality and poverty.
                      It means a lot.

                • joe90

                  smears and false allegations

                  Yet here we are…truth as defence..?

                • Penny Bright


                  So why did the man himself – John Banks – choose to do nothing about me or my actions?

                  Did John Banks appoint you his ‘union delegate’ – or something?

                  News to me….

                  Kind regards

                  Penny Bright
                  2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

                  • Awww C-mon

                    So Penny, by your logic.

                    That nothing has been done about TRP’s robust comments about and to you over the last few days it means they are fine…

                    Good to know

                    • weka

                      “That nothing has been done about TRP’s robust comments about and to you over the last few days it means they are fine…”

                      That’s not true. Moderation here is up to individual moderators who vary in how lightly or heavily they moderate. It’s not an automated system.

          • te reo putake

            “I carry out the work that I choose to do as a self-funded anti-corruption / anti-privatisation ‘Public Watchdog’ as a private citizen, and receive no tax payer or ratepayer funding for so doing.”

            Actually, not paying your rates means you are being subsidised by ratepayers. Your neighbours are helping to pay for your ACT-lite lifestyle.

            • Penny Bright

              Desperate stuff te reo putake.

              I am DISPUTING and REFUSING to pay Auckland Council rates because we’re not being told EXACTLY where rates monies are being spent, particularly on private sector consultants and contractors.

              Here are my policies to deal with this:

              My submission to the Independent Review Mechanism of the Open Government Partnership:


              “I have now attended 5 international anti-corruption conferences, and have campaigned against corruption In New Zealand, by using the electoral process during local and central government elections.

              As a proven anti-corruption and anti-privatisation ‘Public Watchdog’, I have spent hundreds of voluntary, self-funded hours, in developing the following “Action Plan to ensure ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ NZ Government and Judiciary.”

              In my view – what would transform ‘transparency’ in New Zealand is the full and proper implementation of the the NZ Public Records Act 2005.

              How can you have transparency or accountability, without proper written records that are available for public scrutiny?


              1) Make ALL ‘facilitation payments’ (BRIBES) illegal.

              2) Legislate to create an NZ independent anti-corruption body, tasked with educating the public and preventing corruption.

              3) Legislate for NZ members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else) to have a legally enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’.

              4) Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002, for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

              5) Make it lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government elected representatives to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

              6) Make it a lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government staff, responsible for property or procurement, to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

              7) Make it lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government Council Controlled Organisation (CCO) Directors and staff, responsible for property or procurement, to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

              8) Fully implement and enforce the Public Records Act 2005, to ensure public records are available for public scrutiny.

              9) Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit’ analysis of NZ Central Government and Local Government public finances must be undertaken, to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in house’ is cost-effective for the public majority of tax payers and rate payers.

              10) Legislate for a legally enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure that they are not ‘above the law’.

              11) Legislate to provide a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

              12) Ensure ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, with audio records available to parties who request them.

              13) Legislate for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists, and ‘Code of Conduct’ for lobbyists.

              14) Legislate for a ‘post-separation employment’ (‘revolving door’ ) quarantine period from the time officials leave the public service, to take up a similar role in the private sector.

              15) Legislate to make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ central or local government are sold, or long-term leased via Public Private Partnerships.

              16) Legislate to make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to central or local government elections.

              17) Legislate to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations, who are ‘whistle-blowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and and alleged corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

              18) Legislate to prevent ‘State Capture’ – where vested interests get what they want, at the ‘policy’ level, before laws are passed which serve their vested interests.

              Penny Bright
              2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

              • [DELETED – BLiP]

              • [DELETED – BLiP]

                • One Two

                  But you do not speak for anyone other than yourself. As such it is only your point of view.

                  The vitriol, abuse and repetitive bullying reflect your personality type

                  • Too right it’s my point of view! When did I ever claim to speak for anyone else? People are free to agree, disagree or ignore my printed positions, many of which are obviously provocative. Yet a good few years of commenting here and dozens of well read and highly commented on posts suggest I’m not too shabby at what I do. I get regularly taken to task and I’ve changed my mind on some matters thanks to the comments of others.

                    However, I’m not fundamentally changing my approach, one two, so if you don’t want your blood pressure to rise, or to have your safe assumptions challenged, don’t read my stuff.

                    • weka

                      But your behaviour affects conversations here, sometimes quite a lot, trp. So it’s not a matter of just not reading your posts or even your comments. It’s like being at the pub and having someone stand up and yell abuse at another person every 5 minutes. It’s brings everyone down, puts off others in the conversation, and generally makes for a shitty evening out.

                    • As i said, nobody is forcing you to comment or interact with me in any way. But you do. And I hope you continue to do so. Meanwhile, the dude abides.

                    • Lanthanide

                      @ TRP:
                      And yet, Pete George was seen as a monumental disruption on this site by many many commentators, even when we did our best not to reply to him – someone invariably would and we’d get 100+ posts of derailing and diversion.

                      I think saying that your comments can simply be ignored and not responded to is disingenuous. Now, if it were possible for your comments to automatically be collapsed or hidden, that’d be another story. But The Standard doesn’t offer such capability.

          • Visubversa

            Penny – you would not go anywhere near WINZ because they might find you a job and you don’t want to be back on the welding line. You would much rather live off your part time landlady activities and spend lots of time on Facebook and putting yourself about politically for very little effect.

      • Rosie 3.2.2

        Yes Penny, they could start with the Wellington City Council. Did you see my response to you on yesterdays Open Mike regarding the NZ Property Council and an undeclared conflict of interest from Northern ward councillor, Deputy Mayor and Mayoral candidate, Justin Lester?

        • Penny Bright

          Yes Rosie – I did.

          Thanks for that.

          Kind regards

          Penny Bright
          2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

      • Paaparakauta 3.2.3


      • The Chairman 3.2.4

        It’s more a case of little public outcry, thus little public demand (hence political will) for robust oversight, Penny.

        The Hurricanes loss, Max Key or changing the flag will generate more public discussion and concern.

      • Stuart Munro 3.2.5

        I agree with this, and would add, with teeth.

    • greywarshark 3.3

      @The Chairman
      Thanx for drawing our attention to the ongoing banking behaviour here that is negative to us. Kiwibank, TSB, SBS – keep them in mind for foreign-free well-run banks, make them your first port of call.

      Remember the recent case of a bank dropping support for a farming company that it had encouraged to take on debt.

      Google – (keywords – nz Farms threatened by bank loan repayment demands)
      Brian Gaynor: NZ’s dairy giant deeper in debt – Business …
      7 days ago – Farm debt is becoming a “severe scenario”, says Nathan Guy. … Brian Gaynor: Oil’s plunge all about supply and demand … Bank loans have become increasingly important to Fonterra and now stand at $1.72 billion, compared with … However, we note that loan payments will be phased as savings from the co-

      How the wealthy elite corrupted economics | The New …
      7 days ago – They shamelessly describe banks as intermediaries when they know this is a … only three New Zealand university libraries and the Auckland Public Library held copies. …. building and loan associations, land companies, lumbermen, farmers, …. but if new loans exceed repayment then aggregate demand will increase.’.

      Farmers Weekly | Reserve Bank concerns over dairy farmer …
      5 days ago – About a quarter of New Zealand’s dairy farms will have negative cashflow for the … Also, 11% of total debt is held by farms with negative cashflow and loan-to-value … farmers will be helped by about $1.50kg/milksolids (MS) in deferred payment … outlook for dairy prices would be supported by increasing Chinese demand.

      Open mike 12/02/2016 « The Standard
      Feb 11, 2016 – The BNZ are chasing the current owner to repay loans they made to him. … http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/76582067/bank-of-new-zealand-chasing-abel- … There are 9 dairy farms up for mortgagee sales in Marlborough so someone read in the ….. is moving inexorably toward that threatening letter E, and the joyride is over.

      “So at a $4 or $4.50 payout, I would argue that 80 percent of farmers are going to be borrowing to keep going.
      “We’ve got most of our dairy farmers that will really struggle to survive … their financing costs and cost or production is $1.50 above what they’re going to get this year and next year, you can only keep going for a certain amount of time when the situation’s like that.”

    • saveNZ 3.4

      +1 The Chairman. Banks make eye watering profits off NZ’ers. Nobody seems to be interested in checking that consumers are not being ripped off (used to be a commerce commission, but I guess Paula Restock ex chair gives an idea of where that one went) and they pay their fair share of tax (There used to be SFO for this but I guess Feeley gone now gives an indication that going after big business & friends of/or government and their lobbyists is NOT acceptable investigating for SFO).

  4. greywarshark 4

    RADIONZ has interesting stuff this morning for the blogger wishing to be well informed.
    Laila Harre, Tim Hazledine and more on minimum wage which has gone up by 50 c an hour, for the peeps (cf to the rise in house prices of say $10,000 per year).

    This week saw the minimum wage increase by 50 cents to $15.25. Those who argue against significant increases to the minimum wage claim it will price some of the most vulnerable workers out of jobs. But does the evidence back that up?

    Laila Harre is a former associate minister of labour and the owner of Ika Seafood Bar and Grill – a living wage employer; Tim Hazledine is professor of economics at the University of Auckland, and economist Eric Crampton is the head of research at the New Zealand Initiative – a business funded think tank.

    And then there is an overview of our current trading patterns, and how business are operating. Good to bear in mind if we have TPPA.

    Patrick O’Meara, Economics Correspondent – patrick.o’[email protected]
    The EU is New Zealand’s third biggest trading partner, behind only Australia and China.
    The possibility of Britain leaving the European Union has some New Zealand firms on edge.
    The United Kingdom will go the polls for a referendum on the so-called Brexit – a departure from the EU – on 23 June.

    8:12-8.40 a.m. Insight: Trade -the European Bull or the Dragon?
    New Zealand is increasingly focused on trade with the fast growing Asia-Pacific region. But are there dangers with too narrow a scope? The Government is encouraging business to pursue opportunities in the region, fuelled by free trade deals with China and Korea, and the prospect of greater access to the US and Japan markets.

    What about the 20-trillion dollar European economy, home to half a billion people? Patrick O’Meara investigates the focus for the future.
    Produced by Phillipa Tolley
    Audio link up later.

  5. Penny Bright 5

    Seen this?


    Hypocrite Hillary Clinton?

    When Bernie Sanders was being arrested as a civil rights activist fighting racial segregation – Hillary Clinton was a ‘Goldwater Girl’ campaigning (and voting for) for REPUBLICAN segregationist Barry Goldwater?

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • Te Reo Putake 5.1

      Seen this? Why, yes. We saw it yesterday when you spammed TS with exactly the same piece of shit.

      To save readers the bother of clicking on the link, Penny has discovered that when Hillary Clinton was a teenager she once supported the local republican candidate. Then she grew up. Fascinating, eh?

      Speaking of growing up, would anyone sane vote for a climate change denialist, spammer and bludger? Just asking nicely.

      • Penny Bright 5.1.1

        Actually te reo putake – what I posted today was not exactly the same as that which I posted yesterday.

        Today I have posted a graphic.

        How on ‘Open Mike’ is posting any matter that concerns the rather significant USA Presidential elections ‘spamming’?

        Oh – because it’s expressing a view that YOU don’t agree with?

        And you are supposedly a ‘moderator’ on The Standard?

        Given your, in my view, offensive personal attacks on ME ( not my arguments) – how on earth are YOU te reo putake ‘fit for duty’?


        Who the hell do you think you are te reo putake?

        And why are others on The Standard not pulling you into line regarding your , in my view, unseemly and unnecessary personal attacks?

        NOT impressed.

        Penny Bright
        2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

        • te reo putake

          Well, you could always fuck off, Penny. Your cut and paste dumps aren’t appreciated here or, indeed, over at Kiwiblog, where you drop identical comments every day.

          Given that you treat this site like a toilet, you can expect to be occasionally flushed too.

          • weka

            Hard to tell if this is Penny spamming as part of her bid for mayor, or if she’s just on a blog binge at the moment. I’d normally assume the former, but it’s beyond me how anyone could see what is happening here as helping get votes or raise awareness.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              It’s for the same reason the wingnut parrot chorous squawks the same zombie lines ad nauseam: wenn du lügst, dann lüge gründlich, und vor allem bleibe bei dem, was du gelogen hast!

              For lies to be accepted as truth, they must be repeated, often and forcefully.

              • weka

                I was meaning the original link drops she’s been doing (rather than the justifications and subsequent comments).

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  So do I: the only way she can get traction is ad nauseam. Many of us are immune, and clearly we’re not the target audience.

                  • weka

                    you think her links are lies?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      No, I think that her self-appointment is a lie. I think that her assertion that she “helped” NZ ratify the UN convention against corruption is taking credit for the work of others – TINZ spring to mind – another lie.

                      And contrary to your comment below, I think there is value in discussing the way Bright and others use propaganda.

                    • weka

                      I quite agree re propaganda (you’ll have to be more specific re my comment, I’ve made a few), and I agree re the content of her comments being problematic. I don’t mind her being called on that, or people discussing that.

          • gsays

            for the record trp, i found the link interesting and appreciated it.

            the idea that ms clinton/rodham was in support of a politician with a racist mindset while her opponent, sanders, was arrested for protesting against segregation is pertinent.

            i find the shifts in rodham/clintons attitudes enlightening.

            • te reo putake

              Actually, it’s meaningless, gsays. Hillary was a school kid at the time, Sanders was a young man, just out of uni. The six year difference in ages meant he had the benefit of a bit more life experience. Hillary’s teenage opinions shouldn’t be held against her, anymore than the dumb shit we believed when we were that age should be held against us.

              It’s what she (and Sanders) do and say as mature adults in 2016 that is important.

              • gsays

                the obscenities are one thing but it is the tone that is more disconcerting.

                y’all authors/moderaters have a high level of protection and rightly so.
                the vibe i am getting comes across as bullying.

                to expand this a little it ties in to my understanding of stargazers post on intersections.
                the left is kinda disparate mob with a myriad of hobby horses.
                while not necescarily painting penny as left, she appears to stand for a few issues that resonate with me- anti corruption ( i haven’t enjoyed the descent down the non corrupt country list), possibly leading to a transparent lobbying register.

                we seem to want pollys that will do things our way and only our way.
                i dont hold it against you that you supprt the party that tolerates mps schmoozing in the sky casino box at the footy when the gambling house was a major achilles heel of the government.

                sorry, a tad scattergun, but i am glad to get it off my chest.

              • Visubversa

                Absolutely. I went to my first protest when I was 16 and at secondary school. I went with a schoolfriend who was in the Young Nats. We were going to a picket in Queen St in support of New Zealand’s involvement in the Vietnam war. I had a placard with a quote from Winston Churchill about protecting small nations. As a schoolkid growing up in the eastern suburbs of Auckland – that was the only politics I knew. However, on the other side of the road was a bunch from the PYM. I knew someone there so we went over to chat. We picked up some of their leaflets and the next Friday night we were on their side of the street and we both have been ever since.

              • The Chairman

                Bernie Sanders vs Hillary Clinton: The REAL Differences

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Pertinent, and old news to anyone who hasn’t been living in a cave. Now, while I’m sure Penny’s “services” might interest those who live in caves, there are one or two people who find her tiresome and irrelevant.

              • weka

                Was it really necessary to insult gsays in that comment?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Living in a cave is a metaphor for ignorance. Ignorance, being a condition we all share, cannot be effectively employed as an insult.

                  • weka

                    Nice concept, but I’m pretty sure that many people would find being called ignorant an insult. That’s social reality, which makes this interesting because you appear to be saying that people should think like you in order to understand what you mean, rather than you taking responsibility for your communication and using everyday language so that people know what you mean without mindreading.

                    Beyond that, if we’re all ignorant why even bother mentioning it?

                    Of course I would be more inclined to think that someone who equates living in a cave with ignorance to be ignorant because many sage people have lived in caves. Gsays is one of the quieter, more instrospective commenters here. IMO that deserves respect but ymmv.

                    And beyond all that, fuck, is this what it’s going to be like here today, lol? (not you, but everyone). Haven’t we got better things to do with our time? Maybe we should talk about the things that matter?

                    • Paul

                      Totally agree weka.
                      A ceasefire is needed on such a side issue.
                      Instead energy could be burnt on the TPP or Syria or the oncoming world economic crisis or the best way to evict Key.

                    • weka

                      I was hoping someone would put up a post quick today 😉 Might give us somewhere else to focus.

                      “Instead energy could be burnt on the TPP or Syria or the oncoming world economic crisis or the best way to evict Key.”

                      Maybe we could have a Topic of the Day, and we vote at the start of the day what it will be.

                    • Incognito

                      Agreed. For example, I have not seen any mention let alone discussion here on TS of the Government tasking the Productivity Commission with reviewing Tertiary Education in NZ. Never mind, other issues seem to occupy people’s minds instead, which is the way it is, unless somebody draws attention to and makes a good case for a new topic. The post on intersectionality was a very good example that (also) attracted many very good comments; I, for one, like to see more of those.

                    • weka

                      The intersectionality conversation was one of the best we’ve had in ages, and I think in large part that was due to Stargazer’s approach (and CV waiting until later in the day to say his piece and then most people not reacting 😉 ). Made me feel better about the place.

                      Many of us here are capable of writing guests posts, which begs the question of why we are not.

                    • Incognito

                      @ weka @ 6 March 2016 at 2:02 pm:

                      For me, there are a number of reasons for not writing Guest Posts but lack of desire is not one of them. A chronic shortage of time & energy is the big reason. I do have submitted stuff for Guest Posts but not successfully; most likely because it wasn’t that good (I didn’t receive any feedback whatsoever) and/or because of competition for time & space here on TS with other better posts on more pressing issues. I also know that Lynn is busy enough keeping TS ticking. That said, I do experience déjà vu more often here, especially in the comments, and they become like ads and pop-ups that I try to ignore, which is not easy when they’re embedded in discussions threads. It would be great to get more diversity in topics, authors, and comments but easier said than done.

                      As an aside, I personally don’t think that ‘strong’ language makes for a more compelling argument but rather the opposite; it is an unnecessary distraction. John Key uses similar tricks in the debating chamber and it lowers the quality of any ‘debate’ that ensues. Obviously, this is exactly his goal plus it makes for good headlines in MSM.

                    • Sacha

                      “the Government tasking the Productivity Commission with reviewing Tertiary Education in NZ”

                      Thanks, incognito. Charter universities, here we come!

                    • McFlock


                      I’ve never received feedback using the TS gmail – I’m fortunate enough to have met one of the moderators so send it to them if I have time to hack something together.

                      Probably good, though – my first attempts were a bit shit, really.

                  • gsays

                    hi oab,
                    perhaps if a few more of us were true cave dwellers and less attracted to a 400 sq mtr whare, with grounds to match, we would be a lot better off as a species. (insert winking emoticon here)

                    • gsays

                      hi paul,
                      ways to evict key-
                      a vision of a future aotearoa, resilient and independent.
                      a ubi for all funded by a hone tax.
                      hows that for a start?

                      clearly bagging him and highlighting his many faults aint working and it is unattractive.

                    • pat

                      only if we increased the supply of liveable caves…..I fear the limited supply of suitably located abodes would create a speculator fueled property bubble

                    • weka

                      “perhaps if a few more of us were true cave dwellers and less attracted to a 400 sq mtr whare, with grounds to match, we would be a lot better off as a species. (insert winking emoticon here)”


                    • Andre

                      @pat – hobbit houses!


                      A metre of earth on top works really well to make near constant year round indoor temperatures.

                    • pat

                      one Hobbiton is enough

          • saveNZ

            I don’t mind Penny’s links – I don’t look at Kiwiblog.

            I would support Sanders over Clinton anyday if I was a US voter. The US needs change and their change will influence world policy and us. Lets hope they make the right decision.

          • Redelusion

            Well put 😀

        • weka

          “And why are others on The Standard not pulling you into line regarding your , in my view, unseemly and unnecessary personal attacks?”

          Can’t speak for the authors, or even the commenters but I suspect that for the commenters it’s that too many people are sick of what you are doing here. So even though trp’s behaviour crosses some lines, hardly anyone is jumping to your defence because they want YOU to stop what you are doing more than they want trp to. Unfair? possibly, but it’s a common enough dynamic in small communities where someone is pissing off many others and not taking feedback about it seriously. The wellbeing of the community generally takes precedence over more abstract principles.

          • gsays

            gotta say weka, i find the way that trp has handled certain conflicts/differences of opinion, kinda arrogant and bullying in tone (power imbalance).
            not to mention very off putting.

            recently i dont think the health/well being of ts has been served at all well by the vulgar langauge used.

            • weka

              Pretty much agree with all of that gsays (although swearing doesn’t bother me if it’s not used abusively). I think it says a lot that trp’s treatment of Penny last week was appalling and hardly anyone said anything. My theory is that too many people are sick of her behaviour so are putting up with his when directed at her. However it’s probably also because his moderation is erratic (as well as his abuse) and people judge it risky to get involved irrespective of whether its directed at Penny or not. Or maybe people are just sick of it all and staying away.

            • The lost sheep

              recently i dont think the health/well being of ts has been served at all well by the vulgar langauge used

              Note the DB is boasting about having overtaken TS in blog rating now….

              Bullying is part of the culture of ‘reasonably rational debate’ here, and so I guess Penny will ‘fuck off’ as many have before once that tiny dominant white male bully clique decide to eliminate their voice. (Like feminists for instance).

              • weka

                “Note the DB is boasting about having overtaken TS in blog rating now….”

                Er, no, they’re not. They’ve just published the ratings.

          • Penny Bright

            So te reo putake – why is the moderator of Open Mike not holding YOU accountable to the The Standard’s own RULES?


            We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views.

            But this site run for reasonably rational debate between dissenting viewpoints and we intend to keep it operating that way.

            What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others.

            We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate.

            This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so.

            Such comments may be deleted without warning or one of the alternatives below may be employed.

            The action taken is completely up to the moderator who takes it.

            I for one am NOT prepared to accept ‘pointless personal attacks’ and expect The Standard to ‘practice what it preaches’ regarding the above-mentioned stated ‘Rules’?

            In my view te reo putake – your responses to my posts are neither rational nor reasonable.

            Penny Bright
            2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

            • Bearded Git

              Short posts are usually always better Penny if you want people to read them

            • weka

              “I for one am NOT prepared to accept ‘pointless personal attacks’ and expect The Standard to ‘practice what it preaches’ regarding the above-mentioned stated ‘Rules’?”

              Not sure why there is a question mark at the end of that (are you not sure what you are NOT prepared to accept?), but I suggest you take it up with Lynn (lprent), who I think wrote the rules.

              Abuse is allowed so long as a political point is being made. Whether trp’s comments count as political analysis is up for debate, but the other side of this is that YOU are causing as much disruption here as he is, so don’t expect a huge amount of sympathy.

              • Penny Bright

                Excuse me?

                I’m raising pertinent issues on ‘Open Mike’ for discussion and debate, and defending myself against offensive and abusive comments by te reo putake.

                In my view – personal abuse should never be ok.

                I see that te reo putake has had a comment deleted.

                Given what comments made by te reo putake have been allowed to remain – it must have been pretty bad.

                Thank you Blip.

                In my view – if offensive, and abusive personal comments are allowed to be made – it puts people off commenting.

                And it is a situation of ‘power imbalance’ if the one making the offensive, abusive personal comments is someone who has a ‘moderating’ role?

                Then – it becomes in my view, a form of bullying, for which I have ZERO tolerance.

                Ok – now got to get on with other stuff ….

                Penny Bright
                2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

                • weka

                  Has trp ever moderated you? Is this conversation happening in a thread he wrote? If not, there’s no real power imbalance that I can see unless you start attacking him as an author, in which case expect to get a telling off from one of the authors.

                  “I’m raising pertinent issues on ‘Open Mike’ for discussion and debate, and defending myself against offensive and abusive comments by te reo putake.”

                  People, not just trp, are objecting to your behaviour. You are easily as pigheaded as trp is. Don’t expect people’s objections to change just because trp has had a couple of comments removed. His behaviour is off, but the underlying reasons for why people are having a go at you are valid.

                  Anyway, now I’m banging my head on a brick wall. Far, far easier to just tell you to fuck off, because nothing anyone says to you has any meaning. FFS, you even ignored Rosie, who replied to one of your comments thoughtfully and taking care and time. You use The Standard for your own agenda, and you do so in ways that offend the culture here socially, politically and in terms of debate protocol, and then you ignore 99% of what people say to you. I think trp’s behaviour is bad for this community but I completely understand why he has nothing to say to you other than abuse.

                  • BobInAkl

                    +100 – weka @ 12:22pm

                  • Rosie

                    Goodness. I very rarely wade into these personality conflicts on TS. I very rarely follow them either as they are not the reason I visit the site. In fact they are really quite off putting.

                    Here’s my two cents on Penny. I’m generally indifferent to Penny’s posts. On the odd occasion where she has posted something that would be of interest to readers I acknowledge that, eg, she mentioned Michael Moores new movie the other day. I also feel she sometimes gets attacked out of proportion to the provocation of her statements.

                    The only thing I find annoying is the self promotion and the way she uses the site for that. It might be a bit more humble not to sign off with her name and the fact she is a Mayoral candidate. She might appear less aloof if she actually got involved in other peoples discussions. But thats all up to her and the mods of the site.

                    The reason I responded to her yesterday was she was discussing an issue (undeclared conflict of interest re council involvement with NZ Property Council) which would appear to be a mutual issue for both Akld and Wgtn councils. But no bites. I think it’s all pretty one way with her – a bit of tunnel vision perhaps too in regards to regions other than Akld.

                    That doesn’t bother me though. I could be accused of being borderline spamming myself lately, with my WCC issues 🙂

                    What does bother me is arrogance, like the way Ad treated me on Friday’s Open Mike. I find myself more offended by him than say Penny. Even his tone on BLiP’s flag post is patronising, saying he voted for the alt flag as he “has principles” which would suggest that all those who vote for the current flag – don’t.

                    So I figure theres those I won’t bother engaging with again and then theres those I never will, the likes of the BM’s, Puckish Rogues and the Chris 73’s etc. They are just junk food, irresistible for those who just want a bite, but whose calories and lack of nutrient rich content are not useful to the organism.

                    • weka

                      “I also feel she sometimes gets attacked out of proportion to the provocation of her statements.”

                      I agree. It’s the Pete George effect. Once a community gets past a certain point, the tolerance for anything that is very very low. Even things that in and of themselves are ok are seen through the annoyance filter of the person’s behaviour and history. Some of that’s fair and some of it’s not.

                      Thanks for your comment in general. I think these expressions of what works and what doesn’t are important, and if we had a less macho environment we might even be able to make some good change 😉 I’m as bad as anyone, it’s very easy for me to front up to the macho stuff, but ultimately it’s unproductive if it’s the dominant feature of the place 🙁

                    • Rosie

                      Good observations weka re the “pete george effect”.

                      fwiw, I think you have a helpful and engaging communication style. You have a rational approach and seek clarity. Helpful to me when I’m scratching my head about the flow of the discussion.

                      Re the macho environment. I find it tough and its’ easier just to bow out sometimes. Have enough issues IRL!

                  • Karen

                    +1 Weka

                • [DELETED – BLiP]

                • [DELETED – BLiP]

    • ropata 5.2

      Yep Bernie is a legend, check the video attached here

      Do not stop retweeting this https://t.co/0BmDcXxDF5— GOD (@JamonTheGreat) March 1, 2016

    • Seen this? Why, yes. Saw it yesterday when you spammed the Standard with the same piece of dreary, smeary shit.

      • Whoops, semi duplicate comment.

      • left for deadshark 5.3.2

        Now now Hilary. 👿

      • Penny Bright 5.3.3

        Which FACTS did you particularly dislike te reo putake?

        How can you ‘smear’ anyone with TRUTH and FACTS?

        What a fascinating concept!

        Or – you’re just losing the argument and can’t ‘handle the jandal’ ?

        I respectfully suggest you quit while you’re behind?

        Kind regards

        • te reo putake

          [DELETED – BLiP]

          • Penny Bright

            How about you pull your offensive, bad-tempered head in, te reo putake?

            If you can’t debate the issues in a civilised way – maybe the one who should f*** off is YOU?


            What’s your problem?

            Kind regards

            Penny Bright
            2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

            • te reo putake

              [DELETED – BLiP}

              • weka

                mate, you’re banging your head against a brick wall there. History tells us she is incapable of change.

                • The lost sheep

                  Not like anyone else here Weka! sarc.

                  • weka

                    My suggestion is that if you are going to get involved in this shit fight, you take some time to make sense.

                    • The lost sheep

                      On a page as full of hysterical and childish personal abuse attacks as this one, you’d like me to say something sensible Weka? O.K. I’ll give it a stab. It won’t be hard to raise the tone.

                      Looking at the aforementioned abuse, and the comment that has circulated around that lately, it brings to my mind that this blog lays a rough claim that ‘we all share a commitment to the values and principles that underpin the broad labour movement.’

                      So how about considering the behavior on this blog in light of the accepted values and principles that apply say, to an employees right to ‘dignity, safety, and well being within the workplace’?
                      How much of the behavior exhibited by many commenters here would be completely unacceptable in a workplace situation on the grounds it was clearly ‘bullying’ under the guidelines currently established in Employment Law?
                      i.e. Repeated actions, carried out with the desire to gain power or exert dominance, and carried out with the intention to cause fear and distress.

                      Not saying I think this blog should conform to the same standards any worker has a right to expect in a workplace of course, but in light of the current standard of ‘debate’ here lately, I just wondered whether that might be an interesting perspective to consider?

                    • The lost sheep

                      So OAB/Mcflock have jumped on every single one of my last 150 comments, but they will not answer to this one, even when challenged?

                      That would be because to answer this in the same manner they have answered every other of my comments would make it just too clear that their behavior actually conforms to the definition of bullying above?

                      And if they didn’t answer with the usual pure abuse, then they would have to answer sensibly. Beyond them obviously, and not what they are on this blog for!

                      Don’t get me wrong. It doesn’t bother me at all. In fact I think Its absolutely hilarious. 95% of their behavior is abusive, but I really think they are in denial that they are bullys!

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Stop lying. I answered it by pointing out that recidivist liars who whinge about the culture are also hypocrites.

                    Not to mention that people who whinge about getting a response and whinge when they don’t, are hypocrites and whingers and a little bit sad.

            • te reo putake

              [DELETED – BLiP]

              • DH

                te reo putake. There’s been nothing civilised about your behaviour towards Penny. You’ve been an overbearing bully.

  6. greywarshark 6

    Just a note lprent. My comments are vanishing and not coming up even when I refresh with F5. I think it is likely that they will appear when I have closed the site and reopened, as it happened before. So I will try that now. The same thing should happen to this of course.

    This didn’t come up until I reloaded.
    I also mention that I have trouble getting to a comment from the r/h list. I highlight the post, and find that I am taken to some other post. So have to return to the list, find the particular listing, and wait again. It can be time consuming.

    [For some reason your comments are going straight to moderation, I’m clearing them as fast as I can but don’t have the access required to change the necessary settings. Not sure what’s happened. You could try logging in to the site which fixed it up for Te Reo Putake. BLiP]

  7. Gangnam Style 7


    “The government has spent $280,000 hiring a project manager for its Saudi sheep deal, Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully says…That was on top of the $11.5 million worth of cash, sheep and agricultural equipment, the government has already given to a disgruntled Saudi sheikh…”

    • Paul 7.1

      The Saudi army is being defeated in the Yemen.
      Will this destabilise the Saudi regime?
      New Zealand is dealing with an obnoxious regime.
      We stand for so little.

    • saveNZ 7.2

      +1 – are they stupid or is there more dirt in these bribes than they hope not be be uncovered?

      • Paul 7.2.1

        Key’s gang’s only measure of success is money.
        And the Saudis have lots of it.
        Key and his motley crew don’t look at religious extremism, appalling human rights, mass executions, slave labour, mistreatment of women, the invasion of Yemen, support for ISIS , the involvement in 9/11 and the attack on Syria.
        No, Key and his ugly mob just see the dollar sign.
        We have a shameful government.

        • saveNZ

          We even have government crucifixion in Saudi. I mean where do you draw the line.?

          Maybe NZ Government could say nothing if they were cowards, but giving BRIBES of taxpayers money to the regime!!!!!!

          Thats an endorsement!

        • Stuart Munro

          I understand your concern – but the idea of trading with Saudi is not an impropriety in itself – we traffic with many regimes that have death penalties and commit war crimes.

          Money is not in and of itself shameful. NZ buys 97% of its oil, probably from Saudi. It is not out of place to sell sheep to the country you buy oil from, assuming they like sheep. Saudis like sheep.

          Religious extremism is not something governments can easily control. In fact the Saudi royal family isn’t too keen on extremism either – but regulating religion is no simple task in the country that maintains the principal sacred sites.

          Saudi has moved to end slavery and largely succeeded – there was a major complaint from the Phillipines about a decade ago and Saudi (as monarchies can) moved rapidly to end the practice – likewise the role of child slaves in camel racing is now performed by robots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDBGdEZa9eM

          The widely embraced offer of free tertiary education to all Saudi women is a significant step in reforming a conservative country without compulsion.

          This is not to claim Saudi is perfect – there are many things we might prefer they didn’t do – and some, like the execution of dissidents or the war with Yemen are a reasonable basis for trade sanctions.

          The Saudi regime are acutely conscious that imposing progressive reforms on a conservative population is a recipe for revolt. They are allowing internationalisation to gradually erode some forms of conservatism as it did with them.

          My criticism of the Gnats’ efforts in this area is that they were culturally improper, corrupt, and ineffectual – as they are in their governance of New Zealand.

  8. joe90 8

    Just an ordinary guy.

    “Shucks, I sell them chicken fertilizer as caviar. I can make them eat dog food and think it’s steak. You know what the public’s like? A cage full of guinea pigs. Goodnight, you stupid idiots. Goodnight, you miserable slobs.”


  9. Paul 9

    The priorities of wealthy sportsman.
    Even more money.
    And these are the people we are told to revere and respect.
    They are simply creatures of the neoliberal Rand cult of the self.
    Nothing admirable in that.


    • maui 9.1

      Yeah dishonourable actions from cricketers who I think I can safely say are all millionaires now. If Crowe had died just after the 1992 World Cup I can’t see his mates going off and playing golf instead in that semi professional environment.

      I hope those cricketers are coming from the standpoint that they have a commitment to the amateur golfers rather than the amount they’re being paid. I can’t see why they can’t just play half a round of golf morning and then fly up to Auckland for the funeral, and say we’ll make it up to you next year.

  10. Grim 10

    How dumb are those on the left?


    American politics?

    nothing said on this board is going to influence the outcome, so anything said here is only to influence the NZ readers.

    If the information you post here is biased or false you are a propaganda tool.

    Regardless of what ideology you are pushing if you misrepresent facts you are seeking to manipulate others.

    Trump maybe a danger, but don’t use manipulative tactics to sway public opinion.

    • pat 10.1

      that assumes all comment is an attempt sway public opinion….that may be true of the ‘professional commenters” amongst us but suspect most just use these blogs to express their thoughts.

      • Grim 10.1.1

        Disagree, if you spread a meme or link an article regardless of your intent, you become a tool for the original author, that’s how social media is used, much like curent main stream media, it has become a means to shape opinion instead of inform opinion.

        That is why I ask those here to check their sources of influence.

        • pat

          “….that may be true of the ‘professional commenters” amongst us….”

          I rest my case

    • Incognito 10.2

      Oh, the irony!

    • Ad 10.3

      Why do comments on any blog always have to change things? So tiring.

      It’s a false view of dialogue: must we always argue?

      • Grim 10.3.1

        The mentality of the ruling class is that if you are dumb enough to believe lies then you deserve to be tricked, if you don’t protest when you are wronged you accept it.

        They then convince the underclass not to complain and frame complainers as lazy and the cause of the problem.

        must we argue? yes, when posters spread lies they should be called out.

  11. The lost sheep 11

    JK related comments running at about 70% again today.
    (Another 20% taken up on personal attacks on a single commenter.)
    But there has been 1 comment about a NZ LW politician.

    Another KDS free day focused on constructive LW debate then!

    • Paul 11.1

      I have commented on Saudi Arabia.
      Your view of the leadership of that nation?
      Should we be trading with them?

      • Redelusion 11.1.1

        Yes as because based on you criteria we would not trade with any one

        • Paul

          Most countries are not like Saudi.
          You know that

          • Redelusion

            Who decides the criteria, the majority of countries we trade with have objectional practices, the degrees simply dependent on your view, hence just trade unless UN global trade embargoes, ie Iran, Russia etc

            • saveNZ

              Apparently the PM told Fonterra not to trade with Russia.

              So quite the double standard there!!!

              Trade has become too political!

              Either you trade with partners you believe in and trust or you don’t.

              We trade with despicable countries because the US does, if they say no we don’t trade.

              Seems like the opposite of ‘free’ trade to me. More like we do what we are told and have lost the ability to function on our own.

      • The lost sheep 11.1.2

        Should we be using that relationship to do everything we can to influence their behavior? Yes.

    • Gangnam Style 11.2

      OMG!!! Clutch your pearls!!! Won’t anyone think of the children!!! People on a political blog are mentioning the PM!!!!

  12. Foreign waka 12

    Just like to make this comment:
    Please, double please with a cherry – get the non full driver license holders off the road. What I observe is insane! Also, bike riders should not be allowed on the motorway. It is not allowed anywhere else in the world – for obvious reason. Q: how many meters does it take to stop an average family car when traveling at the allowed 100k. Anyone convinced that a bike rider can avoid to be severely injured or killed?

    • sabine 12.1

      yep been saying that for a while now.

      full compulsory driving lessons for all those that want a drivers license with compulsory hours for innercity driving, night driving, motorway driving, open road driving, then a full test a. theoretical and practical – the practical test should be in the car of the driving school, with the driving teacher, tester and driver learner (obviously) – any issues arising can be discussed/disputed between the tester and the drivers teacher, once passed hand out a full license on probation for two to three years. Miss a stop sign, drive through a red light, stopped for being to fast? Reset, re-train, re-sit test.

      and push bikes should not be on motorways ever.

    • Molly 12.2

      Living in a place with no public transport within 10km, makes it easy to see the effect on older teens to become independent, have employment and gain confidence.

      If you restricted the road to only full-licence holders this needed skill is delayed further, and other aspects of young adulthood take longer to attain.

      If you are concerned about driver safety:
      – Push for driver education in high schools – this is one skill that is used daily by a high proportion of NZers,
      – Consider the benefit of restricting the engine size of learner/restricted drivers, rather than getting them off the roads.

      As rapidly ageing parents trying to teach their children how to drive, we deliberately chose a manual, 1.3l engine to do so.

      The manual driving requires many more hours in the empty carpark before going on to the roads, and they have a humility that beginners stalling has given them. The car engine reflects the gear changing, and more importantly hums the higher pitch as it goes past 80km per hour. Less likelihood of hitting a higher speed without knowing it.

      Interestingly, since I continue to drive around without removing the L plates, I notice that there are some drivers who seem to now target our vehicle with harassment that was non-existent before. Sitting directly behind, honking their horn when they consider you have hesitated too long.

  13. mac1 14

    Another interesting read, about the dumbing down of America.http://www.sott.net/article/313177-The-cult-of-ignorance-in-the-United-States-Anti-intellectualism-and-the-dumbing-down-of-America

    The current generation of young people will be less educated than its parents, it seems.

    “The American Association of State Colleges and Universities report on education shows that the U.S. ranks second among all nations in the proportion of the population aged 35-64 with a college degree, but 19th in the percentage of those aged 25-34 with an associate or high school diploma, which means that for the first time, the educational attainment of young people will be lower than their parents”.

    An explanation for ‘trumphallism”?

  14. To, Penny, who asked about the censorship of my comment. I pointed out you’ve been bludging off your neighbours for years, which is factually correct. Why it was deleted we may never know;) And as weka points out below, I’ve never moderated you, deleted your comments or in any way interfered with your ability to repetitively spam this site. I’ve simply called your behaviour for the hypocritical rubbish it is.

  15. Hi’ yall. Earlier today several of my comments were censored by BLiP. No reason was given. I appreciate that I can be difficult reading, but this was a new low for the Standard. Just sayin’.

    • Chooky 16.1

      …actually I always find BLip to the point and he/she writes a good post…he/she is usually very well researched

      ….so I have no objection to BLip’s moderating…( imo BLip probably saved this from becoming a “new low”)

      … nor do i have a problem with Penny’s comments which are invariably polite and respectful to others and often quite interesting …some are a bit long winded but so what?

      • te reo putake 16.1.1

        It’s the censorship without explanation that’s the new low. And yes, I appreciate the irony, but I’ve always had the guts to say why I’ve moderated. BLiPs a bit chickenshit in that area.

        • weka

          I suggest you take your beef with moderation to the other authors. If this shit plays out again in public it undermines faith in the moderation process (I say that as someone who has moderated on other sites).

          “And yes, I appreciate the irony, but I’ve always had the guts to say why I’ve moderated.”

          No, you don’t trp. In fact, I would say a characteristic of your moderation is that it is uneven and sometimes obscure.

          IMO the moderation done over the weekend was appropriate (you were being abusive for the sake of driving someone away), and consistent with other moderation that has happened here over the years.

          I’ll also note that your own moderation of marty not so long ago and now complaining about being moderated for apparently similar behaviour makes you a hypocrite. I get that you have trouble accepting feedback, but you seem to think that you only have to apply your own interpretation of the rules and bugger what anyone else says. That makes you on par with Penny.

          • te reo putake

            Not so, weka. I moderated and gave reasons why. You may not like my reasoning, but I did say why I did it and gave a clear direction on what was expected in that particular debate.

            I wasn’t moderated yesterday. I was censored. No reason whatsoever was given. That’s cowardly.

            • weka

              You claimed,

              “but I’ve always had the guts to say why I’ve moderated.”

              My experience of watching you moderate over a long period of time is that you haven’t always said what you are doing, and your moderation is uneven at best and not consistent with how other moderators are moderating.

              With regards to how you moderated marty, perhaps you can link to the explanation. All I know is that as it unfolded in real time it was a mess, including suddenly saying that there should be no more comments in the sub thread, and then letting comments continue. You’re all over the place.

              “I wasn’t moderated yesterday. I was censored. No reason whatsoever was given. That’s cowardly.”

              And yet I’m sure it’s as obvious to many as it is to me why you were moderated. If you don’t understand why, perhaps you should start listening.

              As for censorship, you’re not the first commenter here to claim that when they don’t like what happened, but it’s no different to any other moderation. Like I said, you choose to interpret the rules and customs to suit yourself without regard for the wider community.

              • No reason was given for the censorship, so neither you nor I know what it was for. The actual deleted comment was factual and non abusive (I’d promised earlier to cut out the sweary stuff and that’s what I did).

                To go back to the flag post you refer to. I closed comments on the sub thread because all of us were losing it. I re-opened the comments the following day hoping that some sense could be made of the discussion. That’s not being ‘all over the place’. It’s trying to moderate sensibly.

                As I’ve asked a few times, if you can summarise what marty was on about, I’m willing to look at it. But I didn’t see anything rational at the time or in the occasions when I’ve gone back and re-read it. As I wrote earlier, my argument was that maori suffered under colonialism. That concept was central to the post. But the fact remains that others suffered more and others suffered less. I don’t see that as controversial and as far as I can tell from researching it, (including on Google scholar and my local uni online library) nobody else does either.

                • weka

                  It’s bleeding obvious why your comments were deleted. If you have a problem with BLiP take it to them. Yes, one comment was deleted that was reasonably factual, but it was still part of a larger campaign of abuse and harassment. The use of swear words wasn’t the problem, it was your behaviour. You still don’t get that.

                  “That’s not being ‘all over the place’.”

                  I’m sure in your head it looked ok, but from this side of the fence it was a shambles. You gave no warnings, and if you notified that comments were open again, I missed that. I suggest you login and use bold if you want to be understood better.

                  As for the original point, watching you all the way through it was clear you simply weren’t listening. At one point late in the day you asked me to clarify but by that stage we’d all had enough of the bullshit. As I’ve said, I’m happy to clarify what marty was talking about when you stop having to be right about everything. Otherwise there really is no point.

      • Sacha 16.1.2

        As others have also noted, Ms Bright makes a habit of misleading interpretations, including framing other people’s motivations negatively.

        When did you stop beating your wife. Asking nicely?

        • Karen

          +1 Sacha

          As an Aucklander I have become increasingly irritated by Penny Bright using this site as a propaganda tool for her mayoral campaign, making a number of misleading statements that cannot be supported by evidence, and never answering any of the questions asked of her about her policies on issues like public transport and climate change. I also disagree that she is “invariably polite and respectful to others”.

      • te reo putake 16.2.1

        Cheers, I hadn’t seen that. But, as it was at the time, Marty is unable to articulate exactly what his issue was. Though it’s good to find out that my opinions don’t count because I don’t spell my name in a marty approved way. An ironic stance in a debate about self identity.

        • Karen

          TRP I think you need to take a step back and look at your behaviour.

          A few weeks ago Tracy suggested that you were responsible for a number of left-wing commentators stopping posting here – Felix, Stephanie and Karol. You acknowledged that Felix may have left because of you but not the other two and I actually supported you in that as I didn’t believe it was you in particular who should be held responsible. You then made some very personal and nasty comments to Tracey and she seems to have left too. I miss really these four commentators, particularly Karol.

          Now Marty Mars has left and it is clear that you are the reason. He was one of the few Māori commenting here and his contribution was an essential read for me. I have never bothered reading the comments from the right wing trolls but it is getting to the stage that is not even worth scrolling down the comments at all because of the behaviour of some of those who profess to be left wing.

          There are worse than you (and I’m not going to name names) but maybe you should consider that sometimes you are wrong, and even when you are right, bullying behaviour is usually counterproductive.

          • weka


          • te reo putake

            Tracey was wrong. However, Felix definitely left ‘because’ of me. I gave him a night off and he reacted badly. The others have nothing whatsoever to do with me at all. We’re all adults and we make our own decisions.

            I still don’t know what marty’s problem was in that discussion. I can summarise my position on that one in a sentence: maori suffered; more than others, not as much as some. Where marty was going with his argument was never made clear.

            • weka

              I understood him. That you don’t is on you, not anyone else. We’re all adults here after all.

              Here’s the other way that you are like Penny. It’s always the other person that is wrong, and you are always right.

              • And yet you can’t explain why I might be wrong, despite many, many requests. Funny that.

                • weka

                  Stop telling lies about me trp. I can tell you what marty was talking about (in my understanding at least) and it’s just yet another example of your disingenuous arguing that you misrepresent my unwillingness as not being able. Not the first time you’ve done that.

                  • And marty’s point is … (so obscure weka can’t put it into words)

                    • Karen

                      FFS TRP you are just proving that you are an arrogant bully over and over again.

                      Well done Weka for trying to be reasonable but sometimes it just isn’t worth the time and energy.

                    • Really, Karen? I would have thought making a claim and then repeatedly refusing to substantiate it was the very height of arrogance.

                    • weka

                      I have no obligations to you trp. I made the case in the original conversation, and put up with your denial and rudeness all that day. Since then I’ve given a clear explanation of why I won’t tell you and the rationale. That’s not arrogance, that’s me offering something. That you think I owe you anything here just reinforces the impression that you think you get to set the rules. You don’t.

                      Thanks Karen.

          • Anne

            Now Marty Mars has left… He was one of the few Māori commenting here and his contribution was an essential read for me.

            Yes. Me too.

            Btw, it’s a sad outcome because Te Reo Putake (and I remember how he came about to choose his new pseudonym and it was accepted in friendship by both Maori and Paheha) also makes important contributions on this site.

            • Karen

              Yes he does Anne, which is why I tried to get TRP to maybe have a think about whether his more aggressive behaviour may be contributing to a reduction in left wing discourse on this site.

        • weka

          “But, as it was at the time, Marty is unable to articulate exactly what his issue was.”

          Marty DID articulate what the issue was, you just weren’t listening. I understood what he was saying and I told you so at the time. You decided that I was wrong without even asking me to explain. That you wouldn’t get clarification from two people in the conversation suggests to me that you didn’t want to hear. That’s consistent with how you respond to other challenges to your politics and self.

          “Though it’s good to find out that my opinions don’t count because I don’t spell my name in a marty approved way.”

          This is racist shit and I’m just going to start naming it. Many Māori, including those who are making sure that te reo survives, say that the macrons are important. If you don’t know why, you should stop using the words in your name. This doesn’t mean don’t use te reo at all, it means stop misusing it for your political agenda.

          It’s also a misrepresentation of what marty said. Yes it’s his opinion, but he’s talking politics, Māori politics. For you to dismiss this as being about marty is another example of racism. It’s shameful to see this on The Standard. It’s also a lazy form of passive aggressive debate.

          It’s a disgrace that after so many years The Standard still isn’t a place where Māori feel comfortable to bring Māori politics. As a Pākekā I don’t feel comfortable about saying this, because I don’t know enough, but I’m fucked if I”ll stand by and let you drive out Māori and feminist authors and commenters just because you lack the social skills to be inclusive and you resort to authoritarian tactics when you get challenged.

          • weka

            Here’s what Adele said in the conversation where marty ended up leaving,

            Daily Review 29/02/2016

          • te reo putake

            If you do know what marty was saying, feel free to summarise. I’m keen to find out.

            I don’t really think that marty’s objection to my name is racist shit, but I can see how you might feel that way.

            • weka

              “If you do know what marty was saying, feel free to summarise. I’m keen to find out.”

              More than happy to when you stop being such a dick. Not going to go there today in the face of so much denial and bullshit.

              “I don’t really think that marty’s objection to my name is racist shit, but I can see how you might feel that way.”

              If you really meant what you have said there, then I’ll name you as a wind up merchant too. It’s your behaviour that’s racist.

              • And yet you remain totally unable to explain why I was in the wrong. Weird, huh? It’s like you don’t actually know. Go on have a crack, weka.

                Marty’s argument is ….

                • weka

                  I’m not going to do anything here other than keep telling you off until I get some clear indication that you are now listening. I haven’t seen that yet, so I’m not going to waste my time.

                  I will keep naming things though, for instance you are now telling lies about me. I can explain, but I’m not willing to. I’ve made that very clear multiple times and given good rationales for that. I’m sure it’s not that you can’t understand that, it’s that it suits your agenda to lie about me instead.

                  • Coolio. And, in your opinion, marty’s point was …

                    • McFlock

                      Well, as my brother once said “cultural appropriation is bad karma”.

                      Especially when one has a penchant for abrasiveness (to put it mildly).

                    • Is it appropriation if it’s part of our shared history as a nation? Is it appropriation if I can whakapapa back through my family’s maori heritage, but don’t make a big deal in public about being able to do so?

                      There are also Portuguese, English and Celtic chapters in my family history. They all contribute to the person I am and to my internationalist world view.

                      Anyhoo, I get your point. But assumptions about where I (or any commenter) come from shouldn’t really form part of the discussion.

                    • weka

                      “And, in your opinion, marty’s point was …”

                      Fuck off until you can listen. In case you really are having trouble understanding what I am saying, today you are not even listening to me. Why would I bother having a complex conversation about politics with such a person?

                    • weka

                      “Is it appropriation if it’s part of our shared history as a nation? Is it appropriation if I can whakapapa back through my family’s maori heritage, but don’t make a big deal in public about being able to do so?

                      There are also Portuguese, English and Celtic chapters in my family history. They all contribute to the person I am and to my internationalist world view.

                      Anyhoo, I get your point. But assumptions about where I (or any commenter) come from shouldn’t really form part of the discussion.”

                      There is a difference between one’s ethnicity and one’s politics and how one chooses to inform one’s politics from one’s ethnicity. There is no inherent problem with you not wanting to bring your whakapapa to the fore. I think people are responding to your politics and your behaviour as they observe it, not your bloodlines.

                    • It’s ok to just say “I don’t understand marty’s argument” weka. That’ll save a lot of time and pixels.

                    • McFlock

                      It was possibly also that in combination with what might be seen as a significant minimisation of the harm done to the culture that your nom de plume* suggests you identify with.

                      That’s how it seems to this spectator, anyway

                      *I didn’t use the fiddly bits over the letters then, either, but that’s cool because nobody likes the French 👿

                    • BM

                      Is it appropriation if it’s part of our shared history as a nation? Is it appropriation if I can whakapapa back through my family’s maori heritage, but don’t make a big deal in public about being able to do so?

                      Well said TRP

                      That’s the problem with Mars , he thinks he’s Super Maori, the most Maori of all Maori.

                      Arrogant wanker.

                    • stop the war lol


                      relates my original point also spoken well by everyone


                      and this is where I make another point and it is, “”But if you are going to appropriate a Māori sounding name then that bestows obligations to Māori whether you like it or not – live up to that and everyone will be better off.” – note this is my opinion.

                      as for you bm – don’t you worry, I’ve got my eye on you son

                    • Nicely explained in the linked article, marty. Thanks.

                    • weka

                      “It’s ok to just say “I don’t understand marty’s argument” weka. That’ll save a lot of time and pixels.”

                      Can’t see that as anything other than you straight out lying about me, so how about I just save pixels and call you a liar each time you tell a lie about me.


                    • weka

                      “*I didn’t use the fiddly bits over the letters then, either, but that’s cool because nobody likes the French”

                      And that’s unlikely to be a problem. But making out that macrons aren’t important is a problem, politically. It’s also a problem if for instance a prominent left wing blog were not to use macrons when using te reo or Māori words. And it’s a problem if it gets left up to individual Māori to address when we (as a country) have known for a very long time how important macrons are in one of our official languages. Doubly so if they have to do that in a hostile environment.

  16. BEN E. KING 17

    “Stand By Me”
    When the night has come
    And the land is dark
    And the moon is the only light we’ll see
    No I won’t be afraid
    Oh, I won’t be afraid
    Just as long as you stand, stand by me

    So darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand, stand by me
    Stand by me

    If the sky that we look upon
    Should tumble and fall
    Or the mountain should crumble to the sea
    I won’t cry, I won’t cry
    No, I won’t shed a tear
    Just as long as you stand, stand by me

    And darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand now, stand by me
    Stand by me

    So darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand now, stand by me, stand by me
    Whenever you’re in trouble won’t you stand by me
    Oh stand by me, won’t you stand now, oh, stand
    Stand by me

  17. The lost sheep 18

    Reading the thread above, I found myself humming along to Bob Dylan….
    ‘But what’s a sweetheart like you doing in a dump like this ?’

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