As mentioned to Phil Ure earlier in the week, the documentary on Aaron Swartz is a worthwhile watch for quite similar reasons. (Aaron Swartz – The Internet’s Own Boy)
He had come to the conclusion that lack of access to free public records and articles creates unnecessary barriers to good solutions. His crime was to download scholarly articles from MIT – which he could do as a Stanford associate – but using batch processes to do it in bulk.
He had done similar with legal documents and performed data analysis on them in the past.
The FBI and the administration decided to make an example of him, and pursued him even as MIT and JSTOR (the article database) did not prosecute.
+100…explains a lot…essentially workers /people should be fighting for laws/rights to allow collective action/bargaining…rights/laws which have eroded in the last 30 years when the unions were smashed
My wife and I walked on an Icelandic Glacier a couple of years ago and it wasn’t slippery because it was covered in volcanic ash. A nearby guide was not happy to see two Kiwis just walk up as he was preparing his cramp-ons and picks to take a paying group up.
“Nearly invisible particles of “black carbon” resulting from incomplete combustion of fossil fuels from diesel engines are being swept thousands of miles from industrial centres in the US, Europe and south-east Asia, as is dust from Africa and the Middle East, where dust storms are becoming bigger as the land dries out, with increasingly long and deep droughts. Earlier this year dust from the Sahara was swept north for several thousands miles, smothered Britain and reached Norway.”
This is only one of the positive feedbacks resulting from the burning of fossil fuels. The others are, methane released from melting permafrost on land and methane released from shallow water clathrates at Sea, the lowered albedo of open ocean over sea ice, and bare rock over glaciers, more warning also releases more water vapor caused by increased evaporation,(Though the jury is still out on this one. Because though atmospheric water vapor is an invisible and powerful green house gas, once condensed as suspended droplets to form clouds, switches from being a positive feedback to a negative feedback)
But added altogether the positive feedbacks greatly out weight the negative feedbacks and could if they continue much longer even overtake the general background warming due to CO2 pollution leading to an unstopplable runaway greenhouse effect, continually compounding and unknowably catastrophic. A chain reaction that quite possibly has no foreseeable end point. (at least, not as far as higher life forms like us and many others are concerned)
The message from all this is, is that the burning of fossil fuels must come to a screeching stop, nothing less will be enough. We need to be standing on the brakes right now. No coasting to a slow stop in 2050 or even 2030, (and which are purely aspirational targets, that allow politicians to avoid having to take action in the here and now).
New Zealand is the best country in the world to lead the way. Just by withdrawing fossil fuel subsidies to Solid Energy and Tiwai we could instantly have a fossil free power grid. As well as that we could become the first country in the world to set an example by becoming completely coal free. We could make these changes almost overnight without hardly any cost in lower living standards.
We could switch $billions set aside for the Roads Of National Significance into public transport. For the same price as the boondoogle that is the Waterview motorway tunnel we could have funded free public transport for Auckland for the next three decades.
(overseas examples have shown that providing city wide fare free public transport as a hassle free public service has got people out of their cars like nothing else, with resulting huge improvements in urban air quality and a complete elimination of traffic congestion. This is not even to mention the boon to the climate.)
The community will be “consulted” next year but we all know what that means. If the road is to be stopped NOW is the time to do it.
Mana will not let the tarseal addicts get away with this. Our Mana Mangere team will announce plans to fight the new road at a local body election campaign launch this Saturday 2pm at East Mangere Hall (Metro Theatre) on Massey Road. Feel free to come along and help.
In the meantime I hope all readers of this blog will know by now that Mana is proposing an alternative to big roads this election. We want to put the big roading projects on the back burner and gridlock free the city within 12 months with fare-free public transport.
The benefits are these:
1. EVERY Aucklander will get an extra hour at home EVERY work day. Even those who never use a bus or train will be able to travel a gridlock-free roading network.
2. It’s cheaper than tarseal addiction – saving hundreds of millions every year.
3. No extra charges for anyone – no rates increases, no extra fuel taxes, no congestion charges, no network charges, no toll roads, no PPPs. Those are Len Brown’s policies – not Mana’s.
4. Improved productivity – as I mentioned a government-commissioned report released in March this year estimated lost productivity at $1.25 billion every year from clogged Auckland roads. This policy will release that lost productivity and enable better pay for workers. Note here that Business New Zealand tells us we need higher productivity to get higher wage increases. Here’s a golden opportunity to pass on these big productivity increases to workers in wages.
5. Faster bus travel on unclogged roads and no time wasted collecting fares.
6. Revitalisation of Auckland’s inner city as more people travel to enjoy Queen Street and the Auckland waterfront – some kids for the first time in their lives.
7. Cleaner and greener – this will be the single greenest policy in the history of New Zealand! – less pollution, smaller carbon footprint – big ups to the environment.
8. Savings for workers – the Mayor of Tallinn calls it the “13th monthly salary” because of estimates the policy saves a month’s pay for workers using the free transport service.
9. Economic stimulation as workers have significantly more to spend in the real economy.
10. Tourism boost as tourists use the system to see all parts of Auckland as we sell the city as an eco-friendly city – released from the grip of dull ideas from the middle of last century.
Despite the fact that contractors had already started some of the preliminary work on this proposed motorway project, under intense public pressure the tarseal addicts had to back down.
Well day three of congress is off to a good start. Only thing that worries me is that singing of songs of praise to The Judeo Christian God of antiquity. I cannot understand why a political party feels the need to carry out this activity
Maybe its time to move away from such outdated actions.
The Houses of Parliament would be a good place to start.
Speaker: We are honoured to be here in this House to represent the people of Aotearoa New Zealand and pledge each day to commit to the values and the responsibilities of that endeavour. So say we all.
Naturally the pledge would also be said in Te Reo Maori and MPs can respond in either or both.
If someone can add a Te Reo Maori translation it would be appreciated.
More seriously – some elements of tradition, incorporating symbolism, continuity and collectivity are necessary secure anchors for a steadfast and outward looking national identity. We need it.
My Mother was an atheist so for her funeral I suggested avoiding hymns but caved in for the sake of the others who were attending. Compromise? Some hymns do have great music though, but the sentiments I can do without. And the sonorous voice of Mr Speaker intoning rubbish irritates.
Went to a young man’s funeral this year, that followed his belief in non-Christian values, and was amazing in it’s recognition of his individual personality and energy. Was appalled to witness a(nother) Maori attendee use the introduction of giving a gift of waiata – to introduce the song “Yes, Jesus loves Me”.
There are so many different songs that acknowledge loss and grief without recourse to any specific religion.
(In saying that I recognise my hypocrisy, one of my internal refrains when dealing with loss comes from the vocal chords of Aaron Neville – a more Christian message is hard to find….)
Trying – obviously inaccurately – to describe how the memorial service was specific to the individual – who was not Christian – but was a keen boater, and involved in a lot of community learning. His parents read out a letter of reference that they had recently sent off for their son, outlining his learning and achievements over the years. People who had been in contact with him over the years recalled their interactions.
One of the songs was “Sailing” by Rod Stewart – which actually was really lyrically appropriate, and a couple of poems about journeying etc.
It was obvious that care was taken in selection of readings and items, to reflect the beliefs of the young man – which interestingly enough was not the same as his Christian mother. She had in her time of grief, the strength of respect to deliberately choose a memorial service that reflected “his” beliefs and not her own.
The trite offering – of “Yes, Jesus Loves Me” was ill-considered in my mind and the one jarring note of the service. An imposition of personal faith on another’s service. Especially considering the acquaintance of the singer was minimal, and not close.
(Non-Christian was just meant to refer to a lack of Christian references during the service – which probably would have been a better way to refer to it)
That is a pretty bad song in any setting, It certainly would be disowned by many religions with its line ‘The Bible tells me so’ Many Christians would not find that statement very good Theology.
The trite offering – of “Yes, Jesus Loves Me” was ill-considered in my mind and the one jarring note of the service. An imposition of personal faith on another’s service. Especially considering the acquaintance of the singer was minimal, and not close.
I got a mate who’s a Presbyterian minister to do my wedding, but told him I didn’t want any god stuff. He thought he’d get around that by mentioning Atua all the time. I wasn’t particularly worried because my atheism is more casual than militant. However, in the procedures of government, I don’t think it has any place at all.
We are honoured to be here in this House to represent the people of Aotearoa New Zealand and pledge each day to the values and the responsibilities of that endeavour. We commit to govern Aotearoa New Zealand with dignity justice and humility, to respect its past, to work together for its future and to enrich and protect all its people. So say we all.
Cunliffe is pretty open about his Christian beliefs.
Was at a networking breakfast a couple months back and the speakers were Cunliffe and Parker. Cunliffe spoke at some length about his faith while Parker basically started with “I’m an atheist”
It is my opinion politicians should not try to present other than what they believe, especially their religious views and that is how having a choice of parties in a democracy accommodates religion and its influence upon society. How parties internally and externally deal with religion in that democracy is for them and their members to work out.
I am also strongly of the opinion that Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.
Removing religion from politics =/= atheism.
Politics can’t represent the beliefs and traditions of everyone because some of them are in direct conflict with one an other.
The ones that don’t condemn others, yes. Most would consider the prayer at the start of parliament decent I am guessing – so they are already included.
I think that the converse – that of banning beliefs – like what has happened to Christmas – (it has fairly well been banned and turned into ‘Season’s Greetings’) – is pretty revoltingly mediocre. More colour, not less, is what I support.
I’ve already provided you with an example – the Christmas one – going ‘a religious’ ends up effectively turning into a ban. Yes, ban may be too strong a word for it – yet effectively it removes the influence of belief systems – which by and large provide some very good principles to live by – like ‘treat others as you would have them treat you’
Being non-biased or ‘fair’ is the same reason that Civics isn’t taught in schools – the worry of political influence.
There was a time when they introduced ‘religious instruction’ at school when I was in intermediate – I believe this also went out due to the controversial nature of it created by intolerance of some parents. Like I said, I am not Christian, yet think it was good to have some input that wasn’t solely secular. Being ‘fair’ to all just ends up supporting positivism to the exclusion of other important aspects of human life.
I am suggesting an inclusive approach because I don’t know how else one addresses the issue without excluding everything that isn’t secular. Spiritual belief is important too yet it gets ignored in this manner of not wanting to offend anyone.
I think if Christianity hadn’t weakened as much as it has there wouldn’t be so much difficulties created by dishonesty and corruption that has occurred since the 70’s in economics. People are very vulnerable to manipulation without some form of developed belief system – whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Paganism or learning philosophical forms of thinking. That is how consumerism has taken such a hold. Rip away belief systems and replace the answer to ‘How do you gain contentment?’ with ‘Buy this, buy that….money, money, money’
What would that leave Blue? Church of England or Anglican (condemns popery) is….gone. Catholic Church (condemns CoE etc) is….gone. Actually, I’d be surprised if a single denomination could be singled out that doesn’t condemn or frown upon another or others to some degree or other. Maybe the Quakers.
Anyway. What is the objection to removing institutional expressions of religion from political institutions again? I couldn’t give a monkey’s flying fuck about an individual’s religious belief or lack thereof. but I do object to religion being injected into politics in any way that could suggest that person a or person b is more or less worthy due to their religion.
“I’ve already provided you with an example – the Christmas one – going ‘a religious’ ends up effectively turning into a ban. Yes, ban may be too strong a word for it – yet effectively it removes the influence of belief systems – which by and large provide some very good principles to live by – like ‘treat others as you would have them treat you’
It isn’t banning, the state has no religion, people have religion but the state doesn’t. And removing the influence of particular belief systems is a good thing. How can the state accommodate all belief systems when many of them are in direct conflict? The state has no place in dictating the terms of religious belief nor favouring one over another.
And those principles you speak of predate every one of our modern religions
@ Bill,
That is why I put that little clause in. To me it is very clear that judging others is very much discouraged by Jesus in the New Testament – however I am well aware that there are Christians out there who do judge – and very severely. These Christians need to decide whether they would prefer to have their beliefs excluded for excluding large swathes of others – whether condemning is a core belief in their belief system – or whether they would prefer their belief to have some formal expression/acceptance in our society.
As for “but I do object to religion being injected into politics in any way that could suggest that person a or person b is more or less worthy due to their religion.”
I don’t see how this relates to what I am supporting? Does this occur? The only example I can think of is that currently the actions, attitudes and propaganda of certain nations may be having that effect on someone stating they are Islamic. This is starting to be moved away from by referring to suicidal bombers & co as having ‘Radical Jihadist’ beliefs rather than Islamic ones.
The main people being held up as more worthy than others are those that place the gathering of wealth above all else – this is one of the reasons I support affirming religious beliefs because I really think there is a correlation between the current belief system of money – and those with it – being valued over anything/ anyone else and the movement to remove religious beliefs from any point where we collect for societal purposes. I suspect we are encouraging “Black-Hole-ism” by doing that; a void of values other than money being upheld.
There is no need for the state to support, encourage or embrace any particular religious belief in order to just. The only way the state can judge effectively and fairly is for it to be totally impartial to all religious beliefs by holding none itself.
Thats odd, I could have sworn this discussion started with you referring to Cunliffe being open about his beliefs and followed by Freedom talking about Parliament:
“I am also strongly of the opinion that Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.”
When did the discussion start being about the State?
Was that when you decided that it was easier to argue your point if you shifted the topic in such a way? 🙂
“Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.”
If the state, or parliament if you prefer, has a particular religious viewpoint it can no longer be just nor impartial. The state MUST be a-religious to be just.
The “Christian Right” as it stands in the USA is very keen on the Ten Commandments from the Old Testament…they’ll say absolutely nothing about the Beatitudes as taught by Jesus though.
Tsk tsk you are not acknowledging my comments very well at all.
The parliament are full of our representatives whom are voted in (or out) on a regular basis and it is parliament that organizes, formulates and pursues political approaches that people vote in.
Parliament is part of the state, yet the state absorbs a much wider range of organizations such as the police, court systems and the military. The state is more static and doesn’t change as readily as parliament.
It is therefore, not a whim of mine that I point out that speaking about parliament is a different topic to speaking about the state.
I am not proposing that parliament takes on a particular religious belief I am suggesting that it is better for parliament to accept/acknowledge all beliefs that are practiced in this country – conditional that they are tolerant of others’.
I don’t see how this (preferential treatment or discrimination of individuals based on religious affiliation) relates to what I am supporting? Does this occur?
You fancy naming me the last PM of the UK (mother of all) Parliament(s) who was a practicing Catholic?
Firstly Parliament does accept all beliefs because there are no laws on the books the ban nor curtail anyone’s belief. Because we are a secular society. But if parliament favours one over another then parliament starts to judge some as more important than the other which is not conducive to a fair and equitable governance model.
I really don’t know where you are getting this ‘judging one over the other’ bit from?
I guess that is true re – no beliefs outlawed, however I thought this discussion was about a view of excluding all beliefs apart from secular ones – which doesn’t seem to be held as a belief by those who hold such a belief – whereas I was arguing it is more fair and equitable to include beliefs rather than exclude all apart from materialism – that way we actually might make some progress on areas such as religious beliefs tend to focus – honorable behaviour, fairness, community, sharing….just a thought….
Chris Hedges on secular fundamentalism and the cult of science
In May of 2007 I went to L.A. to debate Sam Harris, and then two days later I went to San Francisco to debate Christopher Hitchens. Up until that point, I hadn’t paid much attention to the work of the New Atheists. After reading what they had written and walking away from these debates, I was appalled at how what they had done for the secular left was to embrace the same kind of bigotry and chauvinism and intolerance that marks the radical Christian right. I found that in many ways they were little more than secular fundamentalists…
…I think a lot of their popularity stems from a legitimate anger on the part of a lot of Americans toward the intolerance and chauvinism of the radical religious right in this country. Unfortunately, what they’ve done is offer a Utopian belief system that is as self-delusional as that offered by Christian fundamentalists. They adopt many of the foundational belief systems of fundamentalists. For example, they believe that the human species is marching forward, that there is an advancement toward some kind of collective moral progress — that we are moving towards, if not a Utopian, certainly a better, more perfected human society. That’s fundamental to the Christian right, and it’s also fundamental to the New Atheists.
You know, there is nothing in human nature or in human history that points to the idea that we are moving anywhere. Technology and science, though they are cumulative and have improved, in many ways, the lives of people within the industrialized nations, have also unleashed the most horrific forms of violence and death, and let’s not forget, environmental degradation, in human history. So, there’s nothing intrinsically moral about science…I find the faith that these people place in science and reason as a route toward human salvation to be as delusional as the faith the Christian right places in miracles and angels.
CV:
nope. parliament fulfills the wishes of the electorate.
felix: separation is not a belief system or philosophy. It’s simply a method of ensuring that government does not raise one magic book above all others.
“Secularism is the principle of the separation of government institutions and persons mandated to represent the state from religious institutions and religious dignitaries.”
It goes on to say:
Holyoake invented the term “secularism” to describe his views of promoting a social order separate from religion, without actively dismissing or criticizing religious belief. An agnostic himself, Holyoake argued that “Secularism is not an argument against Christianity, it is one independent of it. It does not question the pretensions of Christianity; it advances others. Secularism does not say there is no light or guidance elsewhere, but maintains that there is light and guidance in secular truth, whose conditions and sanctions exist independently, and act forever. Secular knowledge is manifestly that kind of knowledge which is founded in this life, which relates to the conduct of this life, conduces to the welfare of this life, and is capable of being tested by the experience of this life.”
I don’t have much objection at all to the concept of ‘not being ruled by religion’ And I like the definition where it is saying ‘without actively dismissing or criticizing religious belief.’ I like this – it is not shutting out the possibilities of other belief-systems.
My objection comes in when I get the sense that things are tipping toward a dogmatic requirement for non-belief; where anything other than materialistic values are no-go areas – as the article CV provided touched on – where it becomes about not expressing any religiosity/non-materialistic/unprofane beliefs.
For example I don’t think it is very good if schools can’t provide any religious instruction because some of the population can’t stand other belief-systems – I would prefer that there is more acceptance than a rigid materialistic attitude toward life. Perhaps this could be a decision for the parents at each school? If enough parents approve then religious instruction can be allotted some time. As the Contrarian said somewhere in this Open Mike -and I agree with – that some people don’t require additional religious/spiritual input – however some do and benefit greatly from such, so why are those that have no requirement taking precedence?
What is ending up occurring is only the ‘lowest common denominator’ is ‘allowed’ and this turns out to be materialism and non-belief. The message becomes anything other than this is a no-go area/side issue. I don’t think it is for many and I don’t think this is the best outcome at all.
@ Felix lol oh dear me no you kind of explain the point pretty succinctly there.
…how about only drop the beliefs that refuse to tolerate others’ beliefs? A government needs to incorporate all of society – a belief that excludes some isn’t one a government can pursue. A belief that aims at forgiveness, nonjudgmental-ness, love and compassion – for example Christianity before the twerps start re-interpreting it – seems pretty compatible with community spirit – which is really what government represents isn’t it? Most religions can be interpreted in similar ways – and then most religions have intolerant offshoots created by small-minded bigots – so should the religion be interpreted with the best interpretation? Or simply be characterized by the way The Bigots reinterpret it?
I like the prayer at the start of parliament.
I am not a Christian.
“A government needs to incorporate all of society”
And it does so by not weighing any particular religious belief against any other. It does so by being secular and by making no ruling in favour of one religion over another.
You can ignore the arguments I provide – yet I would prefer that you admit that is what you are doing. I am stating that the best way to be impartial is not to ‘make everything secular’ it is to be inclusive of all the beliefs that exist in our country.
I have already provided fairly long comments as to why I believe this is the better way to be impartial.
So in the case of Northern Ireland – should the state come down on the side of the Catholics or the Protestants? New Zealand now has a majority of people not identifying with Christianity – where should the state stand in relation to this?
The state cannot endorse, promote nor ban any religious belief. The only way the state can be an impartial judge to all of its citizens is to hold all views as equal, therefore having no view itself.
Well like I said above – I really wasn’t arguing re the state – I was arguing re parliament. And if you were reading my comments you might have been able to work out that I would view that Irish parliament would have to acknowledge both beliefs – if the formal version of those beliefs were prepared to be tolerant of the other.
“The state cannot endorse, promote nor ban any religious belief. The only way the state can be an impartial judge to all of its citizens is to hold all views as equal, therefore having no view itself.”
Sure a state can. It can endorse one religious belief over another by acknowledging one over another. It can promote a belief by doing much the same – such as promoting valuing money over any other belief by ignoring all other beliefs other than that of valuing money or being aggressively neutral on the matter apart from that of the value of money. And a state can certainly ban a religious belief by creating laws that deal out punishments for certain beliefs – such as the one about believing it is o.k. to kill others. (Such a belief incurs punishment) If a state had knowledge of only one belief – it would not be capable of being impartial because those with that one belief would immediately receive more understanding than those of other beliefs.
So which belief do you think parliament should endorse? Which one of the 41000 denominations of Christianity should the state support? Which of the three major Abrahamic religions should the government judge to be more important than the other? Christians the world over eat beef but Hindus would find the idea repugnant. Should we ban bacon? How about Leviticus? Do we ban the wearing of mixed cloth? Or the eating of shellfish? Is polygamy is acceptable? How about death to homosexuals? If the parliament endorses Christianity say good-bye to your freedom of speech.
Gees Mary (she was quite contrary, so I thought that name might fit),
Inclusiveness doesn’t require judging or endorsing one belief as better than another it simply requires acknowledging it.
So now we hit the same quandary I have mentioned several time now – the state/govenrment/Parliament (whatever you like) cannot include every religious viewpoint because some are directly in opposition to others. Therefore the state/govenrment/Parliament must be a-religious. Only in being a-relgious can it be just to all viewpoints, and inclusive of all view-points.
I don’t think that is a decision for you to make Contrarian, I think that is up to the religious belief’s organisation to decide whether they are prepared to value intolerance over all their other principles. I do not believe that every religious person is intolerant of other religions – only some sects of certain religions are that hung up on intolerance.
Well if not a Christian why on earth would you want an Anglican Prayer out of BCP that is Three hundred 70 years old.
or for that matter why any prayer. A Prayer by its name is a plea or petition to the almighty God. If he listened at all it would be surprising he certainly has given no evidence that he has ever acted upon the petition.
Leave him out, replace it with a statement similar t what we proposed earlier in discussion or just say This session of Parliament is now open
Is good to see you back, by the way, Vicky32.
Considering I have been arguing to include all beliefs – I can’t understand where you are coming from in your comment here. What do you mean?
I made my comment before seeing yours, Blue Leopard… as a Christian, I felt very excluded. It’s always bothered me that Standardistas seem to, most of them, despise religion. They also seem not to understand that many leftists are Christian (or Muslim) and conversely, many Christians and Muslims are left leaning – as this is absolutely NOT the USA! (Where you would never find that)
Yes, it is a shame re people ‘despising religion’ – it would appear also that some such types do not see the detrimental effects of ‘aggressive secularism’.
Interesting what you say because I have a relative who is a strongly committed Christian and I was discussing how I didn’t understand why Christians are voting right in US (I see left-wing values as far closer aligned with Christian beliefs – or any religion I know of – for that matter!) this conversation informed me how off-putting the secularism expressed by Helen Clark was for that person- (she did something like cancel Christmas carol singing in schools?). I can’t say I think this was a good move for any reason – yet especially not if it alienates good people.
Perhaps what you express is more widespread than ‘secularists’ would care to believe?
“Perhaps what you express is more widespread than ‘secularists’ would care to believe?”
I think so! (This board used to have a good quote function, it’s a pity it’s gone). I remember being very surprised when I saw my non-Christian son say on a website called h2g2 years ago, to a person in the US or UK, I can’t remember which, that the religious right scarcely even existed here, and that most religious people here are leftists. I was surprised, because I had taken him to church with me until he was 17 and didn’t want to attend, and I didn’t think he had even noticed! But he had…
🙂
I think you are talking about the “aggressive intolerance” that many people seem to think their particular beliefs, or lack of them, justify.
It mystifies me how many otherwise intelligent people believe in things when their is absolutely no evidence to support their belief, but I accept it as one of the mysteries of life. And there are many religious people who do a lot of good. Equally there are many who are intolerant and “holier than though”.
All of the worlds religions have similar positions on how to treat others, as do atheists and humanists.
It is a pity that many “Christians” “Muslims” and others do not listen to their own religions teachings.
I do not have a problem with inclusiveness, just bigotry and intolerance.
“It is a pity that many “Christians” “Muslims” and others do not listen to their own religions teachings.”
It is also a pity that some of them listen to their own religious teachings. For example the 10 Commandments explicitly reject freedom of speech, association and expression – fundamental human rights.
Mmm Considering the Anglican Church is often called the Tory Party at Prayer it is understandable that many people of the left do not want a religion associated with all that things that they want to escape from. Yes you could replace the C of E with some other brand of religion but then you come up with which one? Someone once showed me some stats about the number of Catholics as a proportion of population as compared with their representation in the House. It was way way out of whack and one would have to wonder why so many of that religion find them self elected to parliament. I do not imagine that the situation has improved which may indicate why we have been so slow to make changes to legislation that catholics are opposed to. Eg Birth Control, Abortion, getting the taxpayer to fund their brand of religious schools for starters.
The only answer that I can see is that we remove all religion from Parliament and the School system. If people want to follow a certain religion that is heir business but not via tax funded institutions. We now have reportedly the Conservative Party Owner holding prayer meetings at work. I wonder how many atheists he employs. We have the Sallies now deciding who will get housing assistance. This organisation that presented a very large petition that wanted Homosexual people to continue to be imprisoned and punished for falling in love with a same sex person. I wonder how many gay people will get housing assistance from Salvation Army.
OF course I could be just paranoid but I would prefer that all dealings with the public social welfare or education or whatever be handled by public servants and not religious groups.
Nice of you to pop by Vicky32. It appears that some cannot accept the importance of spirituality and/or religion and/or faith in the life and wellbeing of a healthy people.
Exclusion is never part of my general outlook on life so don’t give up just yet Vicky32.
The reach of the idea’s intent is not to eradicate peoples’ beliefs from NZ politics.
I have written a more complete explanation of the off the cuff comments that appeared to be the catalyst of this interesting little excursion people went on today.
I am awaiting some Te Reo translation work and should have it all ready for general consumption later in the week. I will submit it as a guest post and if those that decide these things toss it back, I will put it into Open mike in the near future. Not exactly a topic that is critically urgent but still ….
Sooner or later this country will be having the big Republic dialogue for real and this very topic is going to be a part of that discussion. No reason we can’t jump a little ahead on the agenda 🙂
I didn’t hear that interview, but would I be right in thinking that his emphasis would be on the ethical and humanitarian teachings that are a part of a religious upbringing? That’s what I hear coming from him – a position, as a minister’s kid myself, I can clearly identify with. He is certainly not, if you look back at the way he has voted and the liberal beliefs he espouses, a conventional, moralistic and conservative christian in the way right-wing god-botherers have taught us to think is normal nowadays. It’s hard to think of anyone furtherer away from the likes of, say, Colin Craig or Brian Tamaki.
@ TheContrarian…..Christianity can be pretty broad …from the right wing war mongering , sexist , homophobic ,fascist fundamentalists to the liberation theologians …to the postmodern symbolic and non- literalist Gnostic mystic Christians…to the atheist humanist Christian theologians and priests like Don Cuppitt and Lloyd Geering…to the eco-theologians like Catholic Priest Thomas Berry and postmodernist Carol P. Christ…to the radical feminist gay theologians like Professor Mary Daly…to the Pacifist Christians
..Christianity is a broad church…and I would think that David Cunliffe would be of the enlightened liberal end of the spectrum
…i have huge respect for some Christians…so good on David Cunliffe for being open about his beliefs!…i doubt he will try and impose them on people
How low can Paula Bennett sink. She now wants all women who have been abused by Rolf Harris to come forward and lay a complaint because she wants them all ‘to feel safe’. Maybe she could refer them to a Rape Crisis Centre. There is nothing sincere about that woman. Fancy trying to use these women for political gain. She is an absolute poor example of womanhood. Nothing to recommend her at all.
Chooky. Yes, that was going to be my point in my comment above but forgot in my anger. Christchurch closed for want of $30.000.00!
And is she going to extend her ’embrace’ (spit) to include the girl attacked by the Malaysian ‘Diplomat’. Or any of the hundreds of women who are living in terror on a daily basis.
Or is her help only being given to victims of attacks by celebrities.
And how is she going to ‘keep them safe’. Perhaps because it’s easy to say that when he is already in jail. Anyway, what did she think he was going to do. Stalk them all???
“Or is her help only being given to victims of attacks by celebrities.”
Too broad a category there, ffloyd, clearly it’s only for women who can connect with Maggie Barry.
As for those who have put themsleves in the path of non-famous abusers – well, it’s far too expensive and time consuming to deal with their experiences! /sarc.
Poorer Benefit is amoral. Her type of thinking has just closed a rapeline in Christchurch, the suffering city. Her type of behaviour has caused suffering to thousands of women and men under punitive stupid policies still called ‘welfare’ I think.
Now Rolf Harris is to be a focus of blame and a deflector of attention while she goes on her merry way doing with legislation and systems what Rolf Harris did with his eager fingers, and both blatant abusers of people.
“How low can Paula Bennett sink.”? Bit of a silly question really. She can go totally subterranean. It’s only a load of sorta spin sorta doctors and sorta re sorta imagers that sorta keep her above ground (sorta) giggle giggle.
I think half her problem is that she makes pigshit look gifted. The other half is that she is nasty to the core. Once she’s surrounded by the intellectual prowess of the NAct caucus, this type of garbage will flow freely.
I can go with that. Would like to say something along the lines of ,,, and govern with justice and humility to enrich and protect all people of New Zealand.
I would like to see a statement that is inclusive and binding on such governments.
McIvor nee Woodham – I salute thee for your opinion piece Herald online this morning, part of which reads:
“And it’s appalling McCully’s first call was to grovel to John Key for putting his boss in it, rather than apologise to the alleged victim of the sexual assault. Typical, but appalling.”
Appalling ? Too right ! But “Typical” ?
Typical – of McCully ? Can’t be. McCully’s not alone in this.
Typical – of Key ? “First, you’ll apologise to ME”. Well, it’s been happening.
Conclusion – McIvor nee Woodham, your “Typical” points up that the first imperative in addressing dysfunction in governance is grovelling, abject mea culpa before the very man whose conceited distaste for “higher standards” founds that very dysfunction. And while we’re on the topic of immunity – for GodKey, immunity from any responsibility ever.
McIvor nee Woodham, you nearly cracked it mate but a mere Freudian slip does not merit a 21 gun salute. That said I appreciate how the prospect of the 22nd gun terrifies the shit out of you. Sterling jono’ you.
@ North
McIvor nee Woodham (aka goodtime gal-oh-but-that-was-a-long-long-time-ago) replies: ‘ How very dare you call me “mate”! I’m ABOVE you and don’t you EVER forget it or I’ll just have to show you who’s boss’ (Hog).
McIvor nee Woodham says that because she has a platform to do so (now). She was hideous (before ‘now’), and she’s hideous now.
ooooo Tim – you pig! No – it’s just that there are some (Kerry, Pulla Bent, and others) that will get my respect the minute they show respect for others. So far, they’re incapable, and I don’t hold out much hope for their future. Usually I ignore them and thank Christ I haven’t had the displeasure of having had to listen to McIvor (nee Woodham)’s voluptuous presence (in body and spirit) for fekkin years
sauce for gooses, source for ganders and all that
Didn’t catch his name but was disgusted at the panel member who was supposed to be championing the Left. He spent the entire session rubbishing Labour. His analysis was shallow and stupid. Not once did he acknowledge there had been a smear campaign against Cunliffe and Labour… he just blamed Cunliffe for everything. He chastised Cunliffe for not talking about policy during his interview with Corin Dann – ignoring the fact the interviewer sets the questions and naturally all Dann wanted to talk about was moas, being sorry for being a man and the West Coast tree felling controversy. He also dammed Cunliffe for not discussing Labour’s Education policy during the interview. Isn’t Cunliffe announcing a major Education policy plank this afternoon? Did he expect Cunliffe to reveal it on Q&A?
Add the voice of the woman standing in for the Right and a fence sitting “political scientist” and it was one massive anti-Labour talk-fest. The worst I’ve seen thus far!
@ Anne I think they said he was a Labour party communications expert… and then he went on the entire time about how appalling labour’s communications strategy and delivery was.
I didn’t hear anything about a L.P. communications expert, but the opening claim was that he is a Labour Party member. That being the case, I am considering a formal complaint to the NZ Council with a view to having his membership suspended at the least…
The worst experience was the look of joy on the faces of Susan Wood and the wholly unlikable right wing panel member. They couldn’t wait to make the most of it. Wood made no attempt to balance any of his claims which is part of her role as the Current Affairs host. She’s a disgrace!
Actually Wood did mention to Quin words to the effect of: ‘you are supposed to be hear to stick up for/ speak for Labour/Left’. (shoot – I can’t remember it very accurately, sorry)
It was pretty good that she said that – at least she provided a heads up that something was imbalanced about the discussion because the person put on to speak ‘for’ left wing interests wasn’t doing much other than shaft Cunliffe.
His name is Phil Quinn, (am just watching the hour-later version)
A google search on that name brings up a website for an Irish Medium with the same name …(who looks a lot like the guy on Q&A 😐 )….and also lots of Kiwiblog pages that quote someone of that name….
….??….
That’s enough for me. Left wing commentator? My Aunt Betty’s bloomers!!! He’s an arrogant right wing hack who pretends to be left wing. That explains his anti-Cunliffe tirade on Q&A.
North is right. A determined, unabashed editorial pose. Who is the Q&A producer? Think he/she may be going to get an earful from me.
Yeah its getting a bit much – starting to feel I won’t be bothering with watching political programs and even the cheap criticisms here on the Standard toward Labour are starting to get my goat; criticisms of Labour are increasingly appearing like direct reflections of the tone being set by the massive spin in the media.
People need to really check what their views are based on with the level of unadulterated propaganda going on in this country just now.
This is exactly how it works isn’t it? Poor political commentary full of bias and exaggeration puts people off politics so much that they neither feel like becoming more informed (if they do there is nowhere to go without having to trawl through mindless critique from people who have been brainwashed) nor do many people end up feeling like voting at all.
I agree, blue leopard, I can see no point in watching/hearing any more of it unless it’s to follow a variation of ‘keep you friends close and your enemies closer’. I just find it depressing that their are so many stupid or naïve journos and commentators around prepared to sell their souls in this way. You can see how easy it is for dictatorships and other obnoxious regimes to rise up, even in so-called first-world countries, when there are so many sycophants around prepared to make the outrageous seem normal in this way
When I was younger, after reading books about/set in the war, I was particularly fascinated with what you just mentioned – how obnoxious leaders/regimes got the support they did… like in WWII Germany – I guess I’ve witnessed the answers to my childhood curiosity. It is atruly sad spectacle to behold.
Yes, I hesitated to give that as an example in case it seemed overly dramatic, but it is what I had in mind, of course. Scary really – shows just how thin the line really is!
I am glad you persevered in using that example – because for me it nailed it. And you expressed something that has been bubbling under the surface of my awareness for a while – and reading what you wrote cheered me up…as perverse as that may sound.
Hmm to put it another way – I think you provided astute and insightful analysis to what is occurring by using that example – and I enjoy when people share their insights. 🙂
Yeah, Phil Quin was active with the Right-leaning Mike Moore faction during the 90s. Very much supportive of Rogernomics (at least in his younger days). Ran Phil Goff’s numbers for him during various attempts to topple Clark as leader before the 96 Election.
Also champions the idea that the NZ Labour Party should adopt the formal factionalism of their Aussie counterparts. I think it’s fair to say that Phil does enjoy – possibly revels in – having a bit of go at the Left of the Party (as well as the broader political Left outside the Party). So, I think there’s quite a bit of antipathy there.
From memory, he worked for a while as an advisor to Aussie Foreign Affairs Minister Gareth Evans. Very much at the Establishment/Neo-Liberal end of the Party, although, to be fair, he has, at times, sounded quite progressive and Social Democratic – particularly when having a go at the Nats.
The one thing I will say for him is that he knows his shit when it comes to the dark arts of extracting a winning strategy from a few shavings of the electoral vote. He has that gut instinct – from organising local campaigns in Aussie Elections, particularly, it seems, in Victoria – about what gets the punters into the polling booths. And, along with my good self, he was the only one that realised things were gonna be close in the 2010 Mana By-Election. So, he’s a long way from me politically (in fact, I seem to remember at one point he called me “a Trot” because I wasn’t entirely ruling out voting Matt McCarten in the Mana by-Election), but I do have a certain amount of respect for his campaign nous.
According to the National Business Review Phil Quin is “ a former adviser for the NZ and Australia labour parties and a strategic communications consultant”.
Some of his work:
NZ Herald: The anatomy of a failed Labour coup
9:22 AM Saturday Apr 2, 2011 Fifteen years ago, Helen Clark stared down a party coup mounted by her eventual successor, Phil Goff. But her victory came at a huge price for Labour. Phil Quin, one of the plotters, offers an insider’s account. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716608
I was strangely propelled into some kind of alternate reality between how composed, assured and articulate Mr Cunliffe was during a provocative, hostile interview (not designed to shed any light on policy whatever) and the panels’ summation.
Was it the ‘bio-Hacker’ title that got you drooling Phillip, flew straight into your little fantasy world imagining a secret group of underground cheese makers did you,
Why not just make vegan cheese out of soy milk and save all the absolute frigging bullshit, don’t even need get into any of that cloak and dagger bio-hacking stuff,
Margaret Sparrow chronicles the experiences of 19th-Century New Zealand women who had managed to obtain abortions. Her new book ‘Rough on Wimmin – Abortion in 19th Century NZ’ explores the dangers, risks, prejudices and pre-conceptions of the day that befell those women who became pregnant out of wedlock.
Feminist and academic Rachel Brown also needs a mention for her research on which Margaret Sparrow bases her book
Dr. Margaret Sparrow honours pioneer sexual health activist Ettie Rout. Both these great women have braved controversy and opprobrium and saved lives… . Ettie Rout was honoured in France but neglected in New Zealand
I heard that interview Chooky, Margaret Sparrow has done much for NZ women and the country and the brave and determined doctors and supporters of abortion rights, men and women.
thanx greywarbler…she is a wonderful woman doctor for her compassion and resilience and intelligence and her fight for justice for all women to control their fertility and determine their lives ….. a truly great New Zealander!
just back from door knocking in karori. actually being positive and not just a crappy slogan. Surprisingly strong support from people who say they used to vote Labour but cannot vote for a man who is ashamed to be a man. This. is the show me the money turning point of 2014. Bring back Shearer.
just back from door knocking in Epsom actually being a crappy slogan and not just positive; Surprisingly strong support from people who say they used to vote National but cannot vote for a man who is ashamed to be honest. This is the show me a perk busting turning point of 2011. Bring back Rodney Hide.What???
The turning point Fisiani is, imo, cutting class sizes. This has mass appeal. Men who react like that were probably not left voters anyway, concern troll, not convincing.
He’s got no NAct friends. They all facepalm whispering asides about what a try hard he is. I got lots of NAct friends. They all tell me that. Laughing stock. They’re glad we got him here on TS.
sunday morning funnies.
prove you were in Karori this morning.
You are just a figment of Hootons imagination.
here to make trouble.
you worse than a moran!
Given that proven liar fisiani claimed the other day to be doorknocking in Hutt South, his move to Karori strongly suggests that National are desperate for activists. Or he’s lying again. Or both.
Still, you’ve got to admire Fizzy’s strenuous attempts at authenticity. He knows that Labour strategists know that Karori West is the ( slightly ) Left-leaning area of the otherwise relatively Blue suburb of Karori. He’s clearly determined to get under Labour’s skin any way he can. The bloke’s displaying a certain amount of tenacity on this. My guess is he’ll be talking about a middle-of-the road suburb in the Mana Electorate next – I’m picking Linden or possibly Pukerua Bay.
At the Labour conference afternoon session. There are about a thousand seats in the floor of the Michael Fowler, According to the Labour staff here, at least 800 seats are filled. Looks about right.
That was a very good speech by David Cunliffe. Most of the policy has been previewed earlier.
But he announced that the money that National was putting into overpaid part-time principals will go instead into employing 2000 more teachers. That will reduce class sizes.
Everything that I have seen says that smaller class sizes works.
Good. Paying people more for just doing their job seems like a useless idea to me. If there are cruddy teachers out there, then they just need to be either taught to do better or they should leave the profession. If they are burnt out, then just reducing the class sizes will help.
Dropping National’s pointless paperwork nightmare of “National’s standards” will help a lot in reducing the amount of burnout.
“Mr. Holdren’s zeal, and his tendency to present somewhat alarming visions of the future, have stirred controversy….”
“He’s somebody that people want to hear from,” Mr. McDonough said. “And even if he weren’t, he’d be sure he was heard from.”
Mr. Holdren, whose views and pivotal role in the administration have put him in the cross hairs of critics, also spearheaded the most recent National Climate Assessment report, which painted a stark picture of the impact climate change is having on the nation…..
….But even some people who admire his intelligence and ability to explain the science of climate change say his passion for the issue can work against him.
“He is a zealot,” said John W. Rowe, the former chief executive of the energy company Exelon, who was a co-chairman with Mr. Holdren of a panel on energy policy in the 2000s. “If you start off skeptical of his science because of the eminence of his zeal, you can be confirmed in your skepticism.”
Gimme protest consciousness ahead of lazy biddable fat arse at someone else’s tepu. This is how Peter Peter ShonKey Eater rationalises his abject failure ? More sneering at Maori ? Incredible !
Yeah, that’s how I read it. He’s been fèted and dined at National’s table and now thinks that the way thing are is fine – no matter what damage it does to his people.
WTF Paddy Gower interview of Cunliffe from earlier on in the Labour congress – just saw this – that Jonolist is a horrible little NAT weasel completely uninterested in serving the public. Hope he loses his access to the PM’s office in September.
Paddy’s tactics appears to be make Cunliffe focus on the small picture, the minutiae and the trivial
Poor Paddy is still obsessed with trivia like tongue in cheek Moa humour and his imaginary past Abcs. There are bigger issues but he doesn’t seem to understand why we have elections.
Actually I think Cunliffe enjoyed it CV. Paddy Gower was playing the devil’s advocate and Cunliffe knew it. There was a 12 minute sparring match and David won. His best line was quoting Gower’s producer who was complimentary about Labour’s policy planks and that left Paddy chortling.
Yeah I noticed that one. And I was very interested that Gower questioned Cunliffe on being too light blue. But Paddy missing all those chances to put PM aspirant Cunliffe on the spot about serious stuff, instead of trying to force DC to stay on small picture soap opera dramatics.
Herald bias watch.
Note is is the Japanese who are accused of taking ”the hard line” rather than New Zealand as they slavishly follow the neo-liberal policies of large corporates.
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Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that “New Zealand’s economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful”. They also believe that “New Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful”. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
A factory reset restores your Gateway laptop to its original factory settings, erasing all data, apps, and personalizations. This can be necessary to resolve software issues, remove viruses, or prepare your laptop for sale or transfer. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to factory reset your Gateway laptop: Method 1: ...
“You talking about me?”The neoliberal denigration of the past was nowhere more unrelenting than in its depiction of the public service. The Post Office and the Railways were held up as being both irremediably inefficient and scandalously over-manned. Playwright Roger Hall’s “Glide Time” caricatures were presented as accurate depictions of ...
Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
Monday left me brokenTuesday, I was through with hopingWednesday, my empty arms were openThursday, waiting for love, waiting for loveThe end of another week that left many of us asking WTF? What on earth has NZ gotten itself into and how on earth could people have voluntarily signed up for ...
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
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Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Fechner, Research Fellow, Social Marketing, Griffith University mavo/Shutterstock Imagine having dinner at a restaurant. The menu offers plant-based meat alternatives made mostly from vegetables, mushrooms, legumes and wheat that mimic meat in taste, texture and smell. Despite being given that ...
“Three Strikes is a dead-end policy proposed by a dead-end government. The Three Strikes law ignores the causes of crime, instead just brutalising people already crushed by the cost of living.” ...
By Don Wiseman, RNZ Pacific senior journalist An Australian-born judge in Kiribati could well face deportation later this week after a tribunal ruling that he should be removed from his post. The tribunal’s report has just been tabled in the Kiribati Parliament and is due to be debated by MPs ...
With its clear mandate for police use, political nuances, and nuanced public trust, Denmark's insights provide valuable considerations for Australia and New Zealand. ...
Books editor Claire Mabey reviews poet Louise Wallace’s debut novel. A famous poet once said to me that he’s always suspicious when a poet publishes a novel. I never really understood why but maybe it’s something to do with cheating on your first form. Louise Wallace is a poet. She’s ...
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A new survey says ‘outlook not great’ for those charged with building infrastructure, while RMA changes delight farmers and depress environmentalists, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. First RMA changes announced ...
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Wow, quiet here this morning! Did everyone sleep in?
Maybe its broken…
Nope it works, just a relaxed start to the day!
Just sunday. They always start slow. In my case I’m at congress
Hup Oranje!
well done the dutchies.. not a pretty watch but we got there in the end 🙂
Costa Rica missed by a whisker. Tense, exciting, sad for them.
Well no, as far as i can see the first comments were at 5.48am and 6.36 am this morning…
Jenny goes back into moderation for talking about climate change.
Veteran CIA officer destroyed by submitting an official information request
He wanted files which were already declassified by the CIA for release to be actually released.
Note how they dug up details about him going back decades to discredit him, then threatened him with taking away his pension.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-employees-quest-to-release-information-destroyed-my-entire-career/2014/07/04/e95f7802-0209-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html?hpid=z5
As mentioned to Phil Ure earlier in the week, the documentary on Aaron Swartz is a worthwhile watch for quite similar reasons. (Aaron Swartz – The Internet’s Own Boy)
He had come to the conclusion that lack of access to free public records and articles creates unnecessary barriers to good solutions. His crime was to download scholarly articles from MIT – which he could do as a Stanford associate – but using batch processes to do it in bulk.
He had done similar with legal documents and performed data analysis on them in the past.
The FBI and the administration decided to make an example of him, and pursued him even as MIT and JSTOR (the article database) did not prosecute.
After his death, the same approach led 15 year old Jack Andraka to come up with a early detection test for pancreatic cancer.
The cost of paywalling or restricting this kind of information is often much higher than that to release it.
Yes thank you for this Molly.
Reminds me of the very recent “open source everything” commentary in The Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/19/open-source-revolution-conquer-one-percent-cia-spy
thanks CV and Molly…very interesting!
I recommend the following link:
http://labornotes.org/blogs/2014/07/them-thats-got-are-them-gets-pikettys-lessons-activists
It has a US-centric view but is equally applicable here.
+1
+100…explains a lot…essentially workers /people should be fighting for laws/rights to allow collective action/bargaining…rights/laws which have eroded in the last 30 years when the unions were smashed
One of the factors behind accelerating climate change.
Dark snow.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/05/dark-snow-speeding-glacier-melting-rising-sea-levels
Dark Snow 2014: Why We’re Here (Video)
It’s not just dust that’s darkening the snow.
My wife and I walked on an Icelandic Glacier a couple of years ago and it wasn’t slippery because it was covered in volcanic ash. A nearby guide was not happy to see two Kiwis just walk up as he was preparing his cramp-ons and picks to take a paying group up.
Kiwis tend to do this stuff for themselves eh 🙂
This is only one of the positive feedbacks resulting from the burning of fossil fuels. The others are, methane released from melting permafrost on land and methane released from shallow water clathrates at Sea, the lowered albedo of open ocean over sea ice, and bare rock over glaciers, more warning also releases more water vapor caused by increased evaporation,(Though the jury is still out on this one. Because though atmospheric water vapor is an invisible and powerful green house gas, once condensed as suspended droplets to form clouds, switches from being a positive feedback to a negative feedback)
But added altogether the positive feedbacks greatly out weight the negative feedbacks and could if they continue much longer even overtake the general background warming due to CO2 pollution leading to an unstopplable runaway greenhouse effect, continually compounding and unknowably catastrophic. A chain reaction that quite possibly has no foreseeable end point. (at least, not as far as higher life forms like us and many others are concerned)
The message from all this is, is that the burning of fossil fuels must come to a screeching stop, nothing less will be enough. We need to be standing on the brakes right now. No coasting to a slow stop in 2050 or even 2030, (and which are purely aspirational targets, that allow politicians to avoid having to take action in the here and now).
New Zealand is the best country in the world to lead the way. Just by withdrawing fossil fuel subsidies to Solid Energy and Tiwai we could instantly have a fossil free power grid. As well as that we could become the first country in the world to set an example by becoming completely coal free. We could make these changes almost overnight without hardly any cost in lower living standards.
We could switch $billions set aside for the Roads Of National Significance into public transport. For the same price as the boondoogle that is the Waterview motorway tunnel we could have funded free public transport for Auckland for the next three decades.
(overseas examples have shown that providing city wide fare free public transport as a hassle free public service has got people out of their cars like nothing else, with resulting huge improvements in urban air quality and a complete elimination of traffic congestion. This is not even to mention the boon to the climate.)
‘
From Fare Free New Zealand http://farefreenz.blogspot.co.nz/
How mass protest twinned with political campaigning beat back Motorway Madness in Mangere
Wednesday, September 18, 2013:
Despite the fact that contractors had already started some of the preliminary work on this proposed motorway project, under intense public pressure the tarseal addicts had to back down.
Well day three of congress is off to a good start. Only thing that worries me is that singing of songs of praise to The Judeo Christian God of antiquity. I cannot understand why a political party feels the need to carry out this activity
Maybe its time to move away from such outdated actions.
The Houses of Parliament would be a good place to start.
Speaker: We are honoured to be here in this House to represent the people of Aotearoa New Zealand and pledge each day to commit to the values and the responsibilities of that endeavour. So say we all.
The House: So say we all.
Is it such a crazy idea?
Naturally the pledge would also be said in Te Reo Maori and MPs can respond in either or both.
If someone can add a Te Reo Maori translation it would be appreciated.
Well, I could definitely get in behind this 😈
More seriously – some elements of tradition, incorporating symbolism, continuity and collectivity are necessary secure anchors for a steadfast and outward looking national identity. We need it.
My Mother was an atheist so for her funeral I suggested avoiding hymns but caved in for the sake of the others who were attending. Compromise? Some hymns do have great music though, but the sentiments I can do without. And the sonorous voice of Mr Speaker intoning rubbish irritates.
Went to a young man’s funeral this year, that followed his belief in non-Christian values, and was amazing in it’s recognition of his individual personality and energy. Was appalled to witness a(nother) Maori attendee use the introduction of giving a gift of waiata – to introduce the song “Yes, Jesus loves Me”.
There are so many different songs that acknowledge loss and grief without recourse to any specific religion.
(In saying that I recognise my hypocrisy, one of my internal refrains when dealing with loss comes from the vocal chords of Aaron Neville – a more Christian message is hard to find….)
Hi Molly
Just as a matter of interest what are “non-Christian values”.
Trying – obviously inaccurately – to describe how the memorial service was specific to the individual – who was not Christian – but was a keen boater, and involved in a lot of community learning. His parents read out a letter of reference that they had recently sent off for their son, outlining his learning and achievements over the years. People who had been in contact with him over the years recalled their interactions.
One of the songs was “Sailing” by Rod Stewart – which actually was really lyrically appropriate, and a couple of poems about journeying etc.
It was obvious that care was taken in selection of readings and items, to reflect the beliefs of the young man – which interestingly enough was not the same as his Christian mother. She had in her time of grief, the strength of respect to deliberately choose a memorial service that reflected “his” beliefs and not her own.
The trite offering – of “Yes, Jesus Loves Me” was ill-considered in my mind and the one jarring note of the service. An imposition of personal faith on another’s service. Especially considering the acquaintance of the singer was minimal, and not close.
(Non-Christian was just meant to refer to a lack of Christian references during the service – which probably would have been a better way to refer to it)
That is a pretty bad song in any setting, It certainly would be disowned by many religions with its line ‘The Bible tells me so’ Many Christians would not find that statement very good Theology.
I got a mate who’s a Presbyterian minister to do my wedding, but told him I didn’t want any god stuff. He thought he’d get around that by mentioning Atua all the time. I wasn’t particularly worried because my atheism is more casual than militant. However, in the procedures of government, I don’t think it has any place at all.
something more like this perhaps ?
We are honoured to be here in this House to represent the people of Aotearoa New Zealand and pledge each day to the values and the responsibilities of that endeavour. We commit to govern Aotearoa New Zealand with dignity justice and humility, to respect its past, to work together for its future and to enrich and protect all its people. So say we all.
I’m liking it.
@Colonial viper
But possibly the Speaker would put comment on that as you did on my recent missive. TL;DR.
Yes!!!
Cunliffe is pretty open about his Christian beliefs.
Was at a networking breakfast a couple months back and the speakers were Cunliffe and Parker. Cunliffe spoke at some length about his faith while Parker basically started with “I’m an atheist”
It is my opinion politicians should not try to present other than what they believe, especially their religious views and that is how having a choice of parties in a democracy accommodates religion and its influence upon society. How parties internally and externally deal with religion in that democracy is for them and their members to work out.
I am also strongly of the opinion that Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.
The protocols of Parliament should reflect the beliefs and traditions of many different groups of NZers.
I’d say the protocols of parliament should leave religion, of all stripes, out in its entirety.
+1
+1
+1
Why would you respect the practice of only the atheists and agnostics in society?
Removing religion from politics =/= atheism.
Politics can’t represent the beliefs and traditions of everyone because some of them are in direct conflict with one an other.
+1 CV @5.2.1.1.1.4
Another way is to include the many beliefs – rather than ignore them all. We need more inclusion rather than further exclusion.
Christianity has around 41,000 different denominations. Each with it’s own varying practices and rites. Are we to include them all?
The ones that don’t condemn others, yes. Most would consider the prayer at the start of parliament decent I am guessing – so they are already included.
I think that the converse – that of banning beliefs – like what has happened to Christmas – (it has fairly well been banned and turned into ‘Season’s Greetings’) – is pretty revoltingly mediocre. More colour, not less, is what I support.
Who said anything about banning beliefs?
The state should in no way support nor reject religious belief. The state should always be a-religious.
I’ve already provided you with an example – the Christmas one – going ‘a religious’ ends up effectively turning into a ban. Yes, ban may be too strong a word for it – yet effectively it removes the influence of belief systems – which by and large provide some very good principles to live by – like ‘treat others as you would have them treat you’
Being non-biased or ‘fair’ is the same reason that Civics isn’t taught in schools – the worry of political influence.
There was a time when they introduced ‘religious instruction’ at school when I was in intermediate – I believe this also went out due to the controversial nature of it created by intolerance of some parents. Like I said, I am not Christian, yet think it was good to have some input that wasn’t solely secular. Being ‘fair’ to all just ends up supporting positivism to the exclusion of other important aspects of human life.
I am suggesting an inclusive approach because I don’t know how else one addresses the issue without excluding everything that isn’t secular. Spiritual belief is important too yet it gets ignored in this manner of not wanting to offend anyone.
I think if Christianity hadn’t weakened as much as it has there wouldn’t be so much difficulties created by dishonesty and corruption that has occurred since the 70’s in economics. People are very vulnerable to manipulation without some form of developed belief system – whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Paganism or learning philosophical forms of thinking. That is how consumerism has taken such a hold. Rip away belief systems and replace the answer to ‘How do you gain contentment?’ with ‘Buy this, buy that….money, money, money’
What would that leave Blue? Church of England or Anglican (condemns popery) is….gone. Catholic Church (condemns CoE etc) is….gone. Actually, I’d be surprised if a single denomination could be singled out that doesn’t condemn or frown upon another or others to some degree or other. Maybe the Quakers.
Anyway. What is the objection to removing institutional expressions of religion from political institutions again? I couldn’t give a monkey’s flying fuck about an individual’s religious belief or lack thereof. but I do object to religion being injected into politics in any way that could suggest that person a or person b is more or less worthy due to their religion.
“I’ve already provided you with an example – the Christmas one – going ‘a religious’ ends up effectively turning into a ban. Yes, ban may be too strong a word for it – yet effectively it removes the influence of belief systems – which by and large provide some very good principles to live by – like ‘treat others as you would have them treat you’
It isn’t banning, the state has no religion, people have religion but the state doesn’t. And removing the influence of particular belief systems is a good thing. How can the state accommodate all belief systems when many of them are in direct conflict? The state has no place in dictating the terms of religious belief nor favouring one over another.
And those principles you speak of predate every one of our modern religions
@ Bill,
That is why I put that little clause in. To me it is very clear that judging others is very much discouraged by Jesus in the New Testament – however I am well aware that there are Christians out there who do judge – and very severely. These Christians need to decide whether they would prefer to have their beliefs excluded for excluding large swathes of others – whether condemning is a core belief in their belief system – or whether they would prefer their belief to have some formal expression/acceptance in our society.
As for “but I do object to religion being injected into politics in any way that could suggest that person a or person b is more or less worthy due to their religion.”
I don’t see how this relates to what I am supporting? Does this occur? The only example I can think of is that currently the actions, attitudes and propaganda of certain nations may be having that effect on someone stating they are Islamic. This is starting to be moved away from by referring to suicidal bombers & co as having ‘Radical Jihadist’ beliefs rather than Islamic ones.
The main people being held up as more worthy than others are those that place the gathering of wealth above all else – this is one of the reasons I support affirming religious beliefs because I really think there is a correlation between the current belief system of money – and those with it – being valued over anything/ anyone else and the movement to remove religious beliefs from any point where we collect for societal purposes. I suspect we are encouraging “Black-Hole-ism” by doing that; a void of values other than money being upheld.
There is no need for the state to support, encourage or embrace any particular religious belief in order to just. The only way the state can judge effectively and fairly is for it to be totally impartial to all religious beliefs by holding none itself.
Thats odd, I could have sworn this discussion started with you referring to Cunliffe being open about his beliefs and followed by Freedom talking about Parliament:
“I am also strongly of the opinion that Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.”
When did the discussion start being about the State?
Was that when you decided that it was easier to argue your point if you shifted the topic in such a way? 🙂
Where parliament is the state it is right in that
“Parliament should not, in the administration of its duties and protocols, be seen to show preference or allegiance to one set of beliefs over another.”
If the state, or parliament if you prefer, has a particular religious viewpoint it can no longer be just nor impartial. The state MUST be a-religious to be just.
The “Christian Right” as it stands in the USA is very keen on the Ten Commandments from the Old Testament…they’ll say absolutely nothing about the Beatitudes as taught by Jesus though.
@ Contrarian
Tsk tsk you are not acknowledging my comments very well at all.
The parliament are full of our representatives whom are voted in (or out) on a regular basis and it is parliament that organizes, formulates and pursues political approaches that people vote in.
Parliament is part of the state, yet the state absorbs a much wider range of organizations such as the police, court systems and the military. The state is more static and doesn’t change as readily as parliament.
It is therefore, not a whim of mine that I point out that speaking about parliament is a different topic to speaking about the state.
Are you actually suggesting that if parliament embraces a particular religious belief it wouldn’t translate to nor influence the state?
“Christianity has around 41,000 different denominations.”
Er, 41,000? Where did you get that number from? That’s bizarre.
I am not proposing that parliament takes on a particular religious belief I am suggesting that it is better for parliament to accept/acknowledge all beliefs that are practiced in this country – conditional that they are tolerant of others’.
You fancy naming me the last PM of the UK (mother of all) Parliament(s) who was a practicing Catholic?
Firstly Parliament does accept all beliefs because there are no laws on the books the ban nor curtail anyone’s belief. Because we are a secular society. But if parliament favours one over another then parliament starts to judge some as more important than the other which is not conducive to a fair and equitable governance model.
Vicky:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2011/12/ChristianityAppendixB.pdf
Exact figures may vary but any government that says “We are Christian” must then answer “What kind?”
I really don’t know where you are getting this ‘judging one over the other’ bit from?
I guess that is true re – no beliefs outlawed, however I thought this discussion was about a view of excluding all beliefs apart from secular ones – which doesn’t seem to be held as a belief by those who hold such a belief – whereas I was arguing it is more fair and equitable to include beliefs rather than exclude all apart from materialism – that way we actually might make some progress on areas such as religious beliefs tend to focus – honorable behaviour, fairness, community, sharing….just a thought….
Secularism is not a belief system.
If not a belief system then what? A philosophy?
What’s the difference?
I think you’re confusing a statement of existence one way or t’other with not making a statement at all.
Agreed. Secularism is not a religion. But just like atheism or scientism proponents can become dogmatic and fundamentalist about their viewpoints.
This is more to do with human nature and the need to be right about making sense of the world, than anything else.
Chris Hedges on secular fundamentalism and the cult of science
http://www.salon.com/2008/03/13/chris_hedges/
existential questions are not the domain of parliament.
Are questions of morality and of right and wrong the domain of Parliament?
Perhaps I misunderstand what secularism means.
I understand it to be about the separation of religious and public life rather than anything to do with theism or atheism.
CV:
nope. parliament fulfills the wishes of the electorate.
felix: separation is not a belief system or philosophy. It’s simply a method of ensuring that government does not raise one magic book above all others.
re your comment Felix:
Wikipedia has this:
“Secularism is the principle of the separation of government institutions and persons mandated to represent the state from religious institutions and religious dignitaries.”
It goes on to say:
I don’t have much objection at all to the concept of ‘not being ruled by religion’ And I like the definition where it is saying ‘without actively dismissing or criticizing religious belief.’ I like this – it is not shutting out the possibilities of other belief-systems.
My objection comes in when I get the sense that things are tipping toward a dogmatic requirement for non-belief; where anything other than materialistic values are no-go areas – as the article CV provided touched on – where it becomes about not expressing any religiosity/non-materialistic/unprofane beliefs.
For example I don’t think it is very good if schools can’t provide any religious instruction because some of the population can’t stand other belief-systems – I would prefer that there is more acceptance than a rigid materialistic attitude toward life. Perhaps this could be a decision for the parents at each school? If enough parents approve then religious instruction can be allotted some time. As the Contrarian said somewhere in this Open Mike -and I agree with – that some people don’t require additional religious/spiritual input – however some do and benefit greatly from such, so why are those that have no requirement taking precedence?
What is ending up occurring is only the ‘lowest common denominator’ is ‘allowed’ and this turns out to be materialism and non-belief. The message becomes anything other than this is a no-go area/side issue. I don’t think it is for many and I don’t think this is the best outcome at all.
Ahhhhh, if only it were to be, one day soon perchance.
I believe the term is “aspirashunil” 🙂
I am part of a long standing tradition of ignoring long standing traditions and I insist that my tradition be represented along with all the others.
Fine, we’ll have the polies only standing for the first half of the oath.
lolz 😀
@ Felix lol oh dear me no you kind of explain the point pretty succinctly there.
…how about only drop the beliefs that refuse to tolerate others’ beliefs? A government needs to incorporate all of society – a belief that excludes some isn’t one a government can pursue. A belief that aims at forgiveness, nonjudgmental-ness, love and compassion – for example Christianity before the twerps start re-interpreting it – seems pretty compatible with community spirit – which is really what government represents isn’t it? Most religions can be interpreted in similar ways – and then most religions have intolerant offshoots created by small-minded bigots – so should the religion be interpreted with the best interpretation? Or simply be characterized by the way The Bigots reinterpret it?
I like the prayer at the start of parliament.
I am not a Christian.
“A government needs to incorporate all of society”
And it does so by not weighing any particular religious belief against any other. It does so by being secular and by making no ruling in favour of one religion over another.
Do you mean like the conservatives don’t expouse Christianity and impose it on national?, or an actual secular society?
Hi Contrarian,
You can ignore the arguments I provide – yet I would prefer that you admit that is what you are doing. I am stating that the best way to be impartial is not to ‘make everything secular’ it is to be inclusive of all the beliefs that exist in our country.
I have already provided fairly long comments as to why I believe this is the better way to be impartial.
So in the case of Northern Ireland – should the state come down on the side of the Catholics or the Protestants? New Zealand now has a majority of people not identifying with Christianity – where should the state stand in relation to this?
The state cannot endorse, promote nor ban any religious belief. The only way the state can be an impartial judge to all of its citizens is to hold all views as equal, therefore having no view itself.
Well like I said above – I really wasn’t arguing re the state – I was arguing re parliament. And if you were reading my comments you might have been able to work out that I would view that Irish parliament would have to acknowledge both beliefs – if the formal version of those beliefs were prepared to be tolerant of the other.
“The state cannot endorse, promote nor ban any religious belief. The only way the state can be an impartial judge to all of its citizens is to hold all views as equal, therefore having no view itself.”
Sure a state can. It can endorse one religious belief over another by acknowledging one over another. It can promote a belief by doing much the same – such as promoting valuing money over any other belief by ignoring all other beliefs other than that of valuing money or being aggressively neutral on the matter apart from that of the value of money. And a state can certainly ban a religious belief by creating laws that deal out punishments for certain beliefs – such as the one about believing it is o.k. to kill others. (Such a belief incurs punishment) If a state had knowledge of only one belief – it would not be capable of being impartial because those with that one belief would immediately receive more understanding than those of other beliefs.
So which belief do you think parliament should endorse? Which one of the 41000 denominations of Christianity should the state support? Which of the three major Abrahamic religions should the government judge to be more important than the other? Christians the world over eat beef but Hindus would find the idea repugnant. Should we ban bacon? How about Leviticus? Do we ban the wearing of mixed cloth? Or the eating of shellfish? Is polygamy is acceptable? How about death to homosexuals? If the parliament endorses Christianity say good-bye to your freedom of speech.
Gees Mary (she was quite contrary, so I thought that name might fit),
Inclusiveness doesn’t require judging or endorsing one belief as better than another it simply requires acknowledging it.
So now we hit the same quandary I have mentioned several time now – the state/govenrment/Parliament (whatever you like) cannot include every religious viewpoint because some are directly in opposition to others. Therefore the state/govenrment/Parliament must be a-religious. Only in being a-relgious can it be just to all viewpoints, and inclusive of all view-points.
I don’t think that is a decision for you to make Contrarian, I think that is up to the religious belief’s organisation to decide whether they are prepared to value intolerance over all their other principles. I do not believe that every religious person is intolerant of other religions – only some sects of certain religions are that hung up on intolerance.
Well if not a Christian why on earth would you want an Anglican Prayer out of BCP that is Three hundred 70 years old.
or for that matter why any prayer. A Prayer by its name is a plea or petition to the almighty God. If he listened at all it would be surprising he certainly has given no evidence that he has ever acted upon the petition.
Leave him out, replace it with a statement similar t what we proposed earlier in discussion or just say This session of Parliament is now open
“I’d say the protocols of parliament should leave religion, of all stripes, out in its entirety.”
I have just been reading the last 10-15 or so comments and feeling that the left really wants to exclude people such as me…
Thank you for reminding me why I haven’t read the Standard for over a year… 🙁
Is good to see you back, by the way, Vicky32.
Considering I have been arguing to include all beliefs – I can’t understand where you are coming from in your comment here. What do you mean?
I made my comment before seeing yours, Blue Leopard… as a Christian, I felt very excluded. It’s always bothered me that Standardistas seem to, most of them, despise religion. They also seem not to understand that many leftists are Christian (or Muslim) and conversely, many Christians and Muslims are left leaning – as this is absolutely NOT the USA! (Where you would never find that)
Yes, it is a shame re people ‘despising religion’ – it would appear also that some such types do not see the detrimental effects of ‘aggressive secularism’.
Interesting what you say because I have a relative who is a strongly committed Christian and I was discussing how I didn’t understand why Christians are voting right in US (I see left-wing values as far closer aligned with Christian beliefs – or any religion I know of – for that matter!) this conversation informed me how off-putting the secularism expressed by Helen Clark was for that person- (she did something like cancel Christmas carol singing in schools?). I can’t say I think this was a good move for any reason – yet especially not if it alienates good people.
Perhaps what you express is more widespread than ‘secularists’ would care to believe?
“Perhaps what you express is more widespread than ‘secularists’ would care to believe?”
I think so! (This board used to have a good quote function, it’s a pity it’s gone). I remember being very surprised when I saw my non-Christian son say on a website called h2g2 years ago, to a person in the US or UK, I can’t remember which, that the religious right scarcely even existed here, and that most religious people here are leftists. I was surprised, because I had taken him to church with me until he was 17 and didn’t want to attend, and I didn’t think he had even noticed! But he had…
🙂
I think you are talking about the “aggressive intolerance” that many people seem to think their particular beliefs, or lack of them, justify.
It mystifies me how many otherwise intelligent people believe in things when their is absolutely no evidence to support their belief, but I accept it as one of the mysteries of life. And there are many religious people who do a lot of good. Equally there are many who are intolerant and “holier than though”.
All of the worlds religions have similar positions on how to treat others, as do atheists and humanists.
It is a pity that many “Christians” “Muslims” and others do not listen to their own religions teachings.
I do not have a problem with inclusiveness, just bigotry and intolerance.
“It is a pity that many “Christians” “Muslims” and others do not listen to their own religions teachings.”
It is also a pity that some of them listen to their own religious teachings. For example the 10 Commandments explicitly reject freedom of speech, association and expression – fundamental human rights.
Mmm Considering the Anglican Church is often called the Tory Party at Prayer it is understandable that many people of the left do not want a religion associated with all that things that they want to escape from. Yes you could replace the C of E with some other brand of religion but then you come up with which one? Someone once showed me some stats about the number of Catholics as a proportion of population as compared with their representation in the House. It was way way out of whack and one would have to wonder why so many of that religion find them self elected to parliament. I do not imagine that the situation has improved which may indicate why we have been so slow to make changes to legislation that catholics are opposed to. Eg Birth Control, Abortion, getting the taxpayer to fund their brand of religious schools for starters.
The only answer that I can see is that we remove all religion from Parliament and the School system. If people want to follow a certain religion that is heir business but not via tax funded institutions. We now have reportedly the Conservative Party Owner holding prayer meetings at work. I wonder how many atheists he employs. We have the Sallies now deciding who will get housing assistance. This organisation that presented a very large petition that wanted Homosexual people to continue to be imprisoned and punished for falling in love with a same sex person. I wonder how many gay people will get housing assistance from Salvation Army.
OF course I could be just paranoid but I would prefer that all dealings with the public social welfare or education or whatever be handled by public servants and not religious groups.
end of rant
WE
“The only answer that I can see is that we remove all religion from Parliament and the School system”
AFAIK, it’s already been removed from the school system – unless there’ve been changes to the Education Act that I don’t know about!
Nice of you to pop by Vicky32. It appears that some cannot accept the importance of spirituality and/or religion and/or faith in the life and wellbeing of a healthy people.
Yes, you are right, Colonial Viper… I am back as the election is coming up, and I am on tenterhooks! 🙂
Good to see you again Vicky32, like many here, I will be looking forward to your thoughts as the election lumbers near
p.s. you made a comment above about a quote function
– what function do you refer to?
“p.s. you made a comment above about a quote function
– what function do you refer to?”
Something for the non-html users among us, it was a clickable set of quote marks that would but what one cited in an offset box…
It also appears that some cannot accept that others don’t require spirituality and/or religion and/or faith in order to be healthy people.
lol
Oh yay vicky is back. I guess it’s time to start the countdown.
Oh ye of little faith 😛
Exclusion is never part of my general outlook on life so don’t give up just yet Vicky32.
The reach of the idea’s intent is not to eradicate peoples’ beliefs from NZ politics.
I have written a more complete explanation of the off the cuff comments that appeared to be the catalyst of this interesting little excursion people went on today.
I am awaiting some Te Reo translation work and should have it all ready for general consumption later in the week. I will submit it as a guest post and if those that decide these things toss it back, I will put it into Open mike in the near future. Not exactly a topic that is critically urgent but still ….
Sooner or later this country will be having the big Republic dialogue for real and this very topic is going to be a part of that discussion. No reason we can’t jump a little ahead on the agenda 🙂
CV, how does the current House Prayer [not sure of its title] that is read in the House every sitting day, achieve that?
Indeed – pretty sure it doesn’t.
I didn’t hear that interview, but would I be right in thinking that his emphasis would be on the ethical and humanitarian teachings that are a part of a religious upbringing? That’s what I hear coming from him – a position, as a minister’s kid myself, I can clearly identify with. He is certainly not, if you look back at the way he has voted and the liberal beliefs he espouses, a conventional, moralistic and conservative christian in the way right-wing god-botherers have taught us to think is normal nowadays. It’s hard to think of anyone furtherer away from the likes of, say, Colin Craig or Brian Tamaki.
@ TheContrarian…..Christianity can be pretty broad …from the right wing war mongering , sexist , homophobic ,fascist fundamentalists to the liberation theologians …to the postmodern symbolic and non- literalist Gnostic mystic Christians…to the atheist humanist Christian theologians and priests like Don Cuppitt and Lloyd Geering…to the eco-theologians like Catholic Priest Thomas Berry and postmodernist Carol P. Christ…to the radical feminist gay theologians like Professor Mary Daly…to the Pacifist Christians
..Christianity is a broad church…and I would think that David Cunliffe would be of the enlightened liberal end of the spectrum
…i have huge respect for some Christians…so good on David Cunliffe for being open about his beliefs!…i doubt he will try and impose them on people
How low can Paula Bennett sink. She now wants all women who have been abused by Rolf Harris to come forward and lay a complaint because she wants them all ‘to feel safe’. Maybe she could refer them to a Rape Crisis Centre. There is nothing sincere about that woman. Fancy trying to use these women for political gain. She is an absolute poor example of womanhood. Nothing to recommend her at all.
She’s milking it – ie. Maggie Barry’s experience – for everything she can. Disgusting!!!
Or trying to grab headlines of distraction Anne?
hasnt John Key’s National destroyed a lot of financial support for counselling services for rape and sexual abuse victims, particularly child victims?
…this would be a good question for Paula Bennett in the House ?…she needs to be put on the spot over nationals record here!
Chooky. Yes, that was going to be my point in my comment above but forgot in my anger. Christchurch closed for want of $30.000.00!
And is she going to extend her ’embrace’ (spit) to include the girl attacked by the Malaysian ‘Diplomat’. Or any of the hundreds of women who are living in terror on a daily basis.
Or is her help only being given to victims of attacks by celebrities.
And how is she going to ‘keep them safe’. Perhaps because it’s easy to say that when he is already in jail. Anyway, what did she think he was going to do. Stalk them all???
Sorry…………… She makes my blood boil.
ffloyd +100…it is deserving of great anger
“Or is her help only being given to victims of attacks by celebrities.”
Too broad a category there, ffloyd, clearly it’s only for women who can connect with Maggie Barry.
As for those who have put themsleves in the path of non-famous abusers – well, it’s far too expensive and time consuming to deal with their experiences! /sarc.
Poorer Benefit is amoral. Her type of thinking has just closed a rapeline in Christchurch, the suffering city. Her type of behaviour has caused suffering to thousands of women and men under punitive stupid policies still called ‘welfare’ I think.
Now Rolf Harris is to be a focus of blame and a deflector of attention while she goes on her merry way doing with legislation and systems what Rolf Harris did with his eager fingers, and both blatant abusers of people.
+1
Well said.
“How low can Paula Bennett sink.”? Bit of a silly question really. She can go totally subterranean. It’s only a load of sorta spin sorta doctors and sorta re sorta imagers that sorta keep her above ground (sorta) giggle giggle.
I think half her problem is that she makes pigshit look gifted. The other half is that she is nasty to the core. Once she’s surrounded by the intellectual prowess of the NAct caucus, this type of garbage will flow freely.
I can go with that. Would like to say something along the lines of ,,, and govern with justice and humility to enrich and protect all people of New Zealand.
I would like to see a statement that is inclusive and binding on such governments.
thanks Ron, have amended it here http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06072014/#comment-845166
A minute of silence. That IMO is probably the best way to open Parliament.
Couple of hours of it might be nice
McIvor nee Woodham – I salute thee for your opinion piece Herald online this morning, part of which reads:
“And it’s appalling McCully’s first call was to grovel to John Key for putting his boss in it, rather than apologise to the alleged victim of the sexual assault. Typical, but appalling.”
Appalling ? Too right ! But “Typical” ?
Typical – of McCully ? Can’t be. McCully’s not alone in this.
Typical – of Key ? “First, you’ll apologise to ME”. Well, it’s been happening.
Conclusion – McIvor nee Woodham, your “Typical” points up that the first imperative in addressing dysfunction in governance is grovelling, abject mea culpa before the very man whose conceited distaste for “higher standards” founds that very dysfunction. And while we’re on the topic of immunity – for GodKey, immunity from any responsibility ever.
McIvor nee Woodham, you nearly cracked it mate but a mere Freudian slip does not merit a 21 gun salute. That said I appreciate how the prospect of the 22nd gun terrifies the shit out of you. Sterling jono’ you.
@ North
McIvor nee Woodham (aka goodtime gal-oh-but-that-was-a-long-long-time-ago) replies: ‘ How very dare you call me “mate”! I’m ABOVE you and don’t you EVER forget it or I’ll just have to show you who’s boss’ (Hog).
McIvor nee Woodham says that because she has a platform to do so (now). She was hideous (before ‘now’), and she’s hideous now.
ooooo Tim – you pig! No – it’s just that there are some (Kerry, Pulla Bent, and others) that will get my respect the minute they show respect for others. So far, they’re incapable, and I don’t hold out much hope for their future. Usually I ignore them and thank Christ I haven’t had the displeasure of having had to listen to McIvor (nee Woodham)’s voluptuous presence (in body and spirit) for fekkin years
sauce for gooses, source for ganders and all that
The gal’s a riot ! Bubble Bubbles Bubbles…….of the cheapo variety Richmond Road Countdown. Except when she’s at the BBQs in Parnellynellynelly.
Q&A has just finished.
Didn’t catch his name but was disgusted at the panel member who was supposed to be championing the Left. He spent the entire session rubbishing Labour. His analysis was shallow and stupid. Not once did he acknowledge there had been a smear campaign against Cunliffe and Labour… he just blamed Cunliffe for everything. He chastised Cunliffe for not talking about policy during his interview with Corin Dann – ignoring the fact the interviewer sets the questions and naturally all Dann wanted to talk about was moas, being sorry for being a man and the West Coast tree felling controversy. He also dammed Cunliffe for not discussing Labour’s Education policy during the interview. Isn’t Cunliffe announcing a major Education policy plank this afternoon? Did he expect Cunliffe to reveal it on Q&A?
Add the voice of the woman standing in for the Right and a fence sitting “political scientist” and it was one massive anti-Labour talk-fest. The worst I’ve seen thus far!
To the point where I’m satisified that it derived from a determined, unabashed editorial pose.
Who was the putative lefty ?
@ Anne I think they said he was a Labour party communications expert… and then he went on the entire time about how appalling labour’s communications strategy and delivery was.
I agree it was astounding.
I didn’t hear anything about a L.P. communications expert, but the opening claim was that he is a Labour Party member. That being the case, I am considering a formal complaint to the NZ Council with a view to having his membership suspended at the least…
The worst experience was the look of joy on the faces of Susan Wood and the wholly unlikable right wing panel member. They couldn’t wait to make the most of it. Wood made no attempt to balance any of his claims which is part of her role as the Current Affairs host. She’s a disgrace!
Actually Wood did mention to Quin words to the effect of: ‘you are supposed to be hear to stick up for/ speak for Labour/Left’. (shoot – I can’t remember it very accurately, sorry)
It was pretty good that she said that – at least she provided a heads up that something was imbalanced about the discussion because the person put on to speak ‘for’ left wing interests wasn’t doing much other than shaft Cunliffe.
Yes, she said that blue leopard, but from recollection she gave him one of her “lovely” smiles as she said it.
His name is Phil Quinn, (am just watching the hour-later version)
A google search on that name brings up a website for an Irish Medium with the same name …(who looks a lot like the guy on Q&A 😐 )….and also lots of Kiwiblog pages that quote someone of that name….
….??….
Thanks blue leopard. I’m going to see if I can find out more about who he is, but if anyone knows anything could they let us know? Thanks in advance.
Sorry Anne I spelt that wrong – it is Quin (not Quinn) here are some links, which I presume are written by him:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11266928
http://www.pundit.co.nz/blogs/philquin
and Q&A facebook refers to him as @philquin
That’s enough for me. Left wing commentator? My Aunt Betty’s bloomers!!! He’s an arrogant right wing hack who pretends to be left wing. That explains his anti-Cunliffe tirade on Q&A.
North is right. A determined, unabashed editorial pose. Who is the Q&A producer? Think he/she may be going to get an earful from me.
Yeah its getting a bit much – starting to feel I won’t be bothering with watching political programs and even the cheap criticisms here on the Standard toward Labour are starting to get my goat; criticisms of Labour are increasingly appearing like direct reflections of the tone being set by the massive spin in the media.
People need to really check what their views are based on with the level of unadulterated propaganda going on in this country just now.
This is exactly how it works isn’t it? Poor political commentary full of bias and exaggeration puts people off politics so much that they neither feel like becoming more informed (if they do there is nowhere to go without having to trawl through mindless critique from people who have been brainwashed) nor do many people end up feeling like voting at all.
I agree, blue leopard, I can see no point in watching/hearing any more of it unless it’s to follow a variation of ‘keep you friends close and your enemies closer’. I just find it depressing that their are so many stupid or naïve journos and commentators around prepared to sell their souls in this way. You can see how easy it is for dictatorships and other obnoxious regimes to rise up, even in so-called first-world countries, when there are so many sycophants around prepared to make the outrageous seem normal in this way
+100 exactly JanM exactly!
When I was younger, after reading books about/set in the war, I was particularly fascinated with what you just mentioned – how obnoxious leaders/regimes got the support they did… like in WWII Germany – I guess I’ve witnessed the answers to my childhood curiosity. It is atruly sad spectacle to behold.
Yes, I hesitated to give that as an example in case it seemed overly dramatic, but it is what I had in mind, of course. Scary really – shows just how thin the line really is!
I am glad you persevered in using that example – because for me it nailed it. And you expressed something that has been bubbling under the surface of my awareness for a while – and reading what you wrote cheered me up…as perverse as that may sound.
Hmm to put it another way – I think you provided astute and insightful analysis to what is occurring by using that example – and I enjoy when people share their insights. 🙂
This article may help.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716608
Looks like he is a a bit of a Rogernome that worked with the right wing of the Labour Party in the 1990s.
OMG Karen. Just read it. Am in the process of putting my eyes back into their sockets.
You’re dead right. And they have him on Q&A representing the political Left?
Yeah, Phil Quin was active with the Right-leaning Mike Moore faction during the 90s. Very much supportive of Rogernomics (at least in his younger days). Ran Phil Goff’s numbers for him during various attempts to topple Clark as leader before the 96 Election.
Also champions the idea that the NZ Labour Party should adopt the formal factionalism of their Aussie counterparts. I think it’s fair to say that Phil does enjoy – possibly revels in – having a bit of go at the Left of the Party (as well as the broader political Left outside the Party). So, I think there’s quite a bit of antipathy there.
From memory, he worked for a while as an advisor to Aussie Foreign Affairs Minister Gareth Evans. Very much at the Establishment/Neo-Liberal end of the Party, although, to be fair, he has, at times, sounded quite progressive and Social Democratic – particularly when having a go at the Nats.
The one thing I will say for him is that he knows his shit when it comes to the dark arts of extracting a winning strategy from a few shavings of the electoral vote. He has that gut instinct – from organising local campaigns in Aussie Elections, particularly, it seems, in Victoria – about what gets the punters into the polling booths. And, along with my good self, he was the only one that realised things were gonna be close in the 2010 Mana By-Election. So, he’s a long way from me politically (in fact, I seem to remember at one point he called me “a Trot” because I wasn’t entirely ruling out voting Matt McCarten in the Mana by-Election), but I do have a certain amount of respect for his campaign nous.
Who is this Phil Quin?
According to the National Business Review Phil Quin is “ a former adviser for the NZ and Australia labour parties and a strategic communications consultant”.
Some of his work:
NZ Herald: The anatomy of a failed Labour coup
9:22 AM Saturday Apr 2, 2011 Fifteen years ago, Helen Clark stared down a party coup mounted by her eventual successor, Phil Goff. But her victory came at a huge price for Labour. Phil Quin, one of the plotters, offers an insider’s account.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716608
Phil Quin: Jump to left puts Labour on rocky road
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11266928
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/how-internet-mana-could-help-national-reach-50
National Business Review: OPINION: Thirty Percent Doctrine dooms Labour
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/opinion-thirty-percent-doctrine-dooms-labour-157760
WhaleOil:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/06/phil-quin-dotcoms-pets-actually-help-national/
He says he’s a member of the Labour Party. Not for long, I hope.
He calls himself Phil Quin. I call him Phil Quisling. I also call him Scab.
Here’s his twitter thingie: @philquin
Exactly, Anne!
I was strangely propelled into some kind of alternate reality between how composed, assured and articulate Mr Cunliffe was during a provocative, hostile interview (not designed to shed any light on policy whatever) and the panels’ summation.
Can someone please explain? (seriously) !
lprent
How can a duplicate comment show up? Usually a wee sign pops up and prevents.
mm!!..cruelty-free cheese..!
..there’s a winner..!
“..Biohackers making ‘real vegan cheese’..”
“..Real Vegan Cheese is a not a cheese substitute!
It all begins with regular old baker’s yeast.
Through synthetic biology – we engineer our yeast to become milk-protein factories –
These milk proteins are then combined with water – vegan sugar – and oil –
(cont..)
http://boingboing.net/2014/07/05/biohackers-making-real-vegan.html
Was it the ‘bio-Hacker’ title that got you drooling Phillip, flew straight into your little fantasy world imagining a secret group of underground cheese makers did you,
Why not just make vegan cheese out of soy milk and save all the absolute frigging bullshit, don’t even need get into any of that cloak and dagger bio-hacking stuff,
Just Google for the recipes…
What is vegan sugar? I could google it of course, but where is the fun in that?
most sugar uses bones as a filter..in the manufacturing process..
Dr. Margaret Sparrow is a very great New Zealander !…along with Elsie Locke who fought for Family Planning and Ettie Rout
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2602322/margaret-sparrow-rough-on-wimmin
Margaret Sparrow chronicles the experiences of 19th-Century New Zealand women who had managed to obtain abortions. Her new book ‘Rough on Wimmin – Abortion in 19th Century NZ’ explores the dangers, risks, prejudices and pre-conceptions of the day that befell those women who became pregnant out of wedlock.
Feminist and academic Rachel Brown also needs a mention for her research on which Margaret Sparrow bases her book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsie_Locke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettie_Annie_Rout
http://abortionwiki.org/index.php?title=Margaret_Sparrow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sparrow
Dr. Margaret Sparrow honours pioneer sexual health activist Ettie Rout. Both these great women have braved controversy and opprobrium and saved lives… . Ettie Rout was honoured in France but neglected in New Zealand
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/the-wellingtonian/7766412/Dames-grave-mission
I heard that interview Chooky, Margaret Sparrow has done much for NZ women and the country and the brave and determined doctors and supporters of abortion rights, men and women.
thanx greywarbler…she is a wonderful woman doctor for her compassion and resilience and intelligence and her fight for justice for all women to control their fertility and determine their lives ….. a truly great New Zealander!
just back from door knocking in karori. actually being positive and not just a crappy slogan. Surprisingly strong support from people who say they used to vote Labour but cannot vote for a man who is ashamed to be a man. This. is the show me the money turning point of 2014. Bring back Shearer.
more fake twitter followers for the keyster, eh…
just back from door knocking in Epsom actually being a crappy slogan and not just positive; Surprisingly strong support from people who say they used to vote National but cannot vote for a man who is ashamed to be honest. This is the show me a perk busting turning point of 2011. Bring back Rodney Hide.What???
I see your arse not working all out your mouth again FazzyUnus.
The turning point Fisiani is, imo, cutting class sizes. This has mass appeal. Men who react like that were probably not left voters anyway, concern troll, not convincing.
Actually all the comments regarding distaste for The Cunliffe’s false shame came from women in West Karori.
Actually all the comments regarding distaste for Key’s lack of shame came from men in West Epsom
find that hard to believe…sure you weren’t just visiting your NACT friends ?
lol! that sound like it would be closer to the truth Chooky!
He’s got no NAct friends. They all facepalm whispering asides about what a try hard he is. I got lots of NAct friends. They all tell me that. Laughing stock. They’re glad we got him here on TS.
sunday morning funnies.
prove you were in Karori this morning.
You are just a figment of Hootons imagination.
here to make trouble.
you worse than a moran!
xactly.
“fisiani” has never left the office.
Given that proven liar fisiani claimed the other day to be doorknocking in Hutt South, his move to Karori strongly suggests that National are desperate for activists. Or he’s lying again. Or both.
Still, you’ve got to admire Fizzy’s strenuous attempts at authenticity. He knows that Labour strategists know that Karori West is the ( slightly ) Left-leaning area of the otherwise relatively Blue suburb of Karori. He’s clearly determined to get under Labour’s skin any way he can. The bloke’s displaying a certain amount of tenacity on this. My guess is he’ll be talking about a middle-of-the road suburb in the Mana Electorate next – I’m picking Linden or possibly Pukerua Bay.
What’s a moran??????
[lprent: that… ]
At the Labour conference afternoon session. There are about a thousand seats in the floor of the Michael Fowler, According to the Labour staff here, at least 800 seats are filled. Looks about right.
A great speech from David. Mr Key and Whaleoil will be scratching in their dirt piles to try and negate David’s message. Fat hope!
Not people who think positive. Negative smearers usually.
That was a very good speech by David Cunliffe. Most of the policy has been previewed earlier.
But he announced that the money that National was putting into overpaid part-time principals will go instead into employing 2000 more teachers. That will reduce class sizes.
Everything that I have seen says that smaller class sizes works.
Good. Paying people more for just doing their job seems like a useless idea to me. If there are cruddy teachers out there, then they just need to be either taught to do better or they should leave the profession. If they are burnt out, then just reducing the class sizes will help.
Dropping National’s pointless paperwork nightmare of “National’s standards” will help a lot in reducing the amount of burnout.
and timely..re dropping of national standards..
..that is also about to happen in britain..
..for the self-same reasons..
Just wondering if Billy Shorten was the right person to cuddle up with so close to David’s meeting with Women’s Refuge.
US profoundly upset about this but what are they doing about this?
‘
How to offend friends and influence politicians
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/04/us/politics/john-holdrens-influence-seen-in-obama-policies.html
“Mr. Holdren’s zeal, and his tendency to present somewhat alarming visions of the future, have stirred controversy….”
Maori stuck in protest mode — Sharples
Wow, the arrogance in this one is strong.
Gimme protest consciousness ahead of lazy biddable fat arse at someone else’s tepu. This is how Peter Peter ShonKey Eater rationalises his abject failure ? More sneering at Maori ? Incredible !
Yeah, that’s how I read it. He’s been fèted and dined at National’s table and now thinks that the way thing are is fine – no matter what damage it does to his people.
WTF Paddy Gower interview of Cunliffe from earlier on in the Labour congress – just saw this – that Jonolist is a horrible little NAT weasel completely uninterested in serving the public. Hope he loses his access to the PM’s office in September.
Paddy’s tactics appears to be make Cunliffe focus on the small picture, the minutiae and the trivial
http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Labour-leader-David-Cunliffe/tabid/1356/articleID/351533/Default.aspx
Poor Paddy is still obsessed with trivia like tongue in cheek Moa humour and his imaginary past Abcs. There are bigger issues but he doesn’t seem to understand why we have elections.
Actually I think Cunliffe enjoyed it CV. Paddy Gower was playing the devil’s advocate and Cunliffe knew it. There was a 12 minute sparring match and David won. His best line was quoting Gower’s producer who was complimentary about Labour’s policy planks and that left Paddy chortling.
Yeah I noticed that one. And I was very interested that Gower questioned Cunliffe on being too light blue. But Paddy missing all those chances to put PM aspirant Cunliffe on the spot about serious stuff, instead of trying to force DC to stay on small picture soap opera dramatics.
a moran is something that begins with f and ends with i and votes national.
Such a pity that the New Zealand government does not take the same care for its citizens as the Japanese government.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11288704
Herald bias watch.
Note is is the Japanese who are accused of taking ”the hard line” rather than New Zealand as they slavishly follow the neo-liberal policies of large corporates.