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Open mike 06/08/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 6th, 2012 - 168 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

168 comments on “Open mike 06/08/2012”

  1. Jenny 1

    Syrian tyrant sends desperate begging mission to Moscow

    http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/assads-officials-beg-moscow-for-aid-to-stem-revolution/

    With Syria on the northern border of Israel, a victory for the Syrian revolution may be of pivotal importance in the long struggle to restore Palestinian lands and rights. Especially since Egypt, on the southern border of Israel, is the scene of an unfolding revolution which is weakening the US imperium and Israeli Zionism.

    Watch this space. Our website brings you the news that Damascus, Moscow, Washington, Tel Aviv and their MidEast cronies do not want you to see.

    Grant Morgan editor kiaoragaza.net

    • Carol 1.1

      I’m not up on all the latest details of the Syrian conflict. I’m certainly no fan of the Assad regime, and was behind the rebels initially. I have become increasingly concerned about the role of the US government in supporting the rebels, as reported in various places, including here:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/29/syria-route-of-compromise

      This conflict was born as a peaceful rebellion evolving into a popular revolution. Violent suppression of unarmed demonstrators led some opponents to take up arms in defence of the right to protest and demand change. The armed men were a minority among dissidents who recoiled from the despoliation of their country that would inevitably accompany a violent uprising, yet they gained the ascendancy by the force of their actions and the international support they gained for their choice of the rifle over the banner.
      […]
      The rebels, advised by intelligence officers from western countries working in Turkey and Lebanon, took outlying neighbourhoods of Damascus. The regime, inevitably, used all the means at its disposal to drive them out and retake those areas.
      […]
      There are wars, and there are civil wars. Before the Red Cross withdrew from Syria last week, it declared this was a civil war. This means it is no longer a rebellion, but a battle for power between contending factions. Neither the Free Syrian Army nor the government recognises the other. Both refuse to speak to each other. Their external benefactors (for the regime, Russia, Iran and Iraq; for the opposition, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the US, France and Britain) are encouraging their intransigence.

      I have got suspicious of western involvement ever since I started seeing Hillary Clinton speaking in support of the rebels on TV.

      So how will the support for the rebels of the US and other western powers help to bring a just solution to Palestine?

      • Carol 1.1.1

        And the duplicitous US role also reported here, as well as the way major powers are interfering in the Syrian conflict in order to use it for their own ends. Just looks like one big mess from where I’m sitting:

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/04/syria-russia-america-middle-east-agendas?newsfeed=true

        While it has become a commonplace – and rightly so – to criticise Russia for its determination to support Assad and undermine Annan’s efforts, the US has not been much more honest. As Reuters revealed on the day of Annan’s resignation, President Barack Obama secretly signed a presidential “finding” authorising covert aid to Syria’s rebels, while US allies in the region provided weapons.
        […]
        The reality is that the players in Syria’s agony have been more interested in their own agendas than in ending the bloodshed and civilian suffering. Leaders of the incoherent and fractured Syrian opposition have sometimes seemed more interested in jostling for influence; Russia, Iran and Hezbollah back Assad for their own diverse reasons; while Gulf states, including Qatar and Saudi Arabia have been pursuing their own regional interests, not least proxy competition with Iran.
        […]
        Those backing the wholesale arming of opposition factions – already receiving arms and assistance from various quarters – cannot answer a fundamental question: how they would prevent sophisticated weapons ending up with the minority of jihadi groups operating in Syria or indeed with Free Syrian Army units like the one that videoed itself murdering bound shabiha prisoners, unquestionably a war crime

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

          And it seems to me that the US is quite willing to turn a blind eye to the increasing role that religious fundamentalism is playing in the conflict. The promise of jihad is motivating many foreign fighters, including Al Qaida Iraq, against Assad’s secular regime.

          Watch this space. Our website brings you the news that Damascus, Moscow, Washington, Tel Aviv and their MidEast cronies do not want you to see.

          Apart from an inflated sense of self-importance I don’t think this website “kiaoragaza” has much to add whatsoever.

          • Tiger Mountain 1.1.1.1.1

            Well except CV kiaoragaza’s Roger Fowler (long time activist), walked the talk and personally helped deliver medical and other supplies to Palestinians a year back in a motorised caravan of international support to break the Israeli blockade. A few brownie points there surely. But that does not mean the groups every utterance is of signifcance of course. It is all too easy to be a keyboard warrior.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1

              TM – if its clear that its activism that Jenny is quoting and not journalism, then I have no problem with Kiaoragaza.

              If it is being made out to be news however, then I would expect basic journalistic standards to be followed, eg. fact checking, credible sources, presenting doubts and analysis from different points of view within a piece, etc.

              • Vicky32

                If it is being made out to be news however, then I would expect basic journalistic standards to be followed, eg. fact checking, credible sources, presenting doubts and analysis from different points of view within a piece, etc.

                I did go there once, but was sadly unimpressed….

              • Jenny

                More nasty slander from a person who openly supports murder and torture.

                And who refuses to answer on whether he would support the use of deadly gas against the revolutionaries.

                I call you on this:

                ….. I would expect basic journalistic standards to be followed, eg. fact checking, credible sources, presenting doubts and analysis from different points of view within a piece, etc.

                Kiaoragaza have quite clearly provided examples of the pro Assad propaganda you spout, [and without editorial comment]. Expecting intelligent people of good will to recognise it for the BS it is.

                Here:

                http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/assads-storyline-a-war-led-and-fought-by-foreigners/

                • Colonial Viper

                  Hey Jenny, did you hear that the US Senate is considering directly supplying arms and money to the “Free Syrian Army” even though it may end up in the hands of Al Qaida fighters and Salafi jihadists?

                  • Jenny

                    The Green Party are calling for military intervention in Syria.

                    The Green Party says New Zealand should vote for military intervention in Syria at the United Nations if the fighting there reaches the point where crimes against humanity are being committed.

                    Radio NZ

                    The Greens are making this call at a time, when it looks like the victory of the rebellion is all but guaranteed, and a Western intervention now, would only act to steal the victory from the people.

                    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/112449/greens-would-support-military-intervention-in-syria

                    What is crazy about this, is that crimes against humanity are already being committed by the regime, and have been for some time.

                    The Greens need to be warned against listening to pro-Assad fringe lunatics like Colonial Viper or his mates.

                    The Greens need to take note of what befell the German Greens when they voted with the government for military intervention in Afghanistan.

                    The Greens must take note also, of what happened to the Alliance when their leadership voted with the New Zealand government for military intervention in Afghanistan.

                    As an excuse to intervene in Syria, don’t believe the lying smear being spread against the revolution in Syria by people like Colonial Viper (and others), as being the work of Al Qaida and foreign interests.

                    Mark my words:
                    For the Greens to give their support for this lying excuse for Western, or UN intervention will be a terrible mistake from which the New Zealand Green Party will not recover.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You really are one confused person Jenny. The Greens say intervention should be considered if crimes against humanity are being perpetrated in the conflict.

                      Why do you have a problem with that.

                    • Jenny

                      You really are one confused person Jenny. The Greens say intervention should be considered if crimes against humanity are being perpetrated in the conflict.

                      Why do you have a problem with that.

                      Colonial Viper

                      CV, You are the one who is confused if you think crimes against humanity have not been, and are not being committed by the Assad regime.

                      In your twisted view, is the mowing down of unarmed protesters not a crime against humanity?

                      How about the murder and torture of the wives and children of army deserters rounded up by the military, is that not a crime against humanity?

                      What about the indiscriminate strafing of civilian cities and towns from the air, is that not a crime against humanity?

                      Do I have a problem with that?

                      Yes I do. And I also have a problem with low life scum that try and ignore it and/or make excuses for it.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Saudi Arabia does all that you list, and worse. And they are supporting the infiltration of foreign fighters into Syria. But you are OK with that? That the FSA is no longer “of the people”, “by the people” or “for the people”?

                      Yes I do. And I also have a problem with low life scum that try and ignore it and/or make excuses for it.

                      🙄

                    • Colonial Viper

                      don’t believe the lying smear being spread against the revolution in Syria by people like Colonial Viper (and others), as being the work of Al Qaida and foreign interests.

                      Maybe you should update your facts Jenny.

                      US clears way for foreign donations to Syrian rebels

                      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9454086/Syria-US-clears-way-for-Americans-to-start-donating-money-to-rebels.html

                  • bad12

                    Don’t taunt Her to hard CV, theres more going on there than what meets the eye, the comment about the Greens call for military intervention i would dare suggest would in fact be wanting to oust Assad as much as our commenter does,

                    But,she can’t ‘see’ that either…

        • rosy 1.1.1.2

          An addition to the story of Annan’s resignation in the history that will written about Syria’s civil war:

          30 June 2012 will surely be recognised as the only true moment of hope. On that day in Geneva the five permanent members of the UN security council united behind a communique calling for a transition to a democratic system in Syria and the formation of a government of national unity in which opposition leaders and members of the current government would share power.

          They called for a firm timetable for elections in a fair environment… said the continuity of government institutions and qualified staff in Syria’s public services must be preserved. This included the military and security forces – though they must in future adhere to human rights standards…

          …Then came the spanner. Britain, France and the US proposed a rival resolution with the one-sided elements that provoked earlier Russian and Chinese vetoes – punishment of Assad if he did not comply, threats of new sanctions, no word of pressure on the opposition and veiled hints of eventual military force by referring to chapter seven of the UN charter.

          The resolution was a disaster, and it is no wonder that in explaining his resignation (in a Financial Times article on Friday) Annan highlighted the security council’s failure to endorse the Geneva recommendations.

          There are definitely two sides to the story of the geopolitical games that are costing Syrian people their lives.

      • Dr Terry 1.1.2

        It might bring a “solution”, but it will not be “just”.

      • Vicky32 1.1.3

        I have got suspicious of western involvement ever since I started seeing Hillary Clinton speaking in support of the rebels on TV.
         

        Me too, although in my case, I heard her on the radio…

        So how will the support for the rebels of the US and other western powers help to bring a just solution to Palestine?

        Careful, Carol, Jenny will accuse you of stuff! 🙂

        • Jenny 1.1.3.1

          Which side are you on?
          One’s right and one’s wrong
          Which side are you on?

          • bad12 1.1.3.1.1

            Nah that which side are you on is way to simplistic,it may have been the currency of Alfred E Nuemann (George Bush), the ex US Prez,but if He aint a war criminal nobody is,

            I am on neither side, i refuse to become emotionally involved to such an extent that what is TRUE no longer matters,

            What may have started out as an internal insurrection against the Assad regime has fast become an opening to exploit by the US Government via the use of it’s proxies in the region,

            I only need to know that the House of Saud is involved in paying wages to and helping arm fighters entering the fray to know that this has become,(or was all along), a fight to destabilize ANY regime in the region that is not strictly on the ‘side’ of the USA and Israel,

            What ‘side’ am i on, Neither, war in any guise be it civil or otherwise is wrong, i have to beleive that or i would have taken up arms against the Government of New Zealand long ago…

            • Vicky32 1.1.3.1.1.1

              I only need to know that the House of Saud is involved in paying wages to and helping arm fighters entering the fray to know that this has become,(or was all along), a fight to destabilize ANY regime in the region that is not strictly on the ‘side’ of the USA and Israel,

              Well said, bad12!

          • rosy 1.1.3.1.2

            Jenny, it’s not a case of supporting Assad.
            It is possible to hold these 2 positions simultaneously:
            1. Assad is a tyrant who kills Syrian citizens and should not be in power
            2. Syrians who are anti-government fighters want the best for their country

            It’s also possible to hold, at the same time as the above positions, the belief that armed insurrection might not BE what is best for the country – especially if it is funded by parties with their own geopolitical interests that don’t coincide with the best interests of the Syrian people as a whole (without a doubt this conflict is funded externally).

            And at the same time be very concerned that, whether the insurrection was started by outsiders or not, the destruction of governmental institutions leaves an opening for others to put their nasty interests first – hence al qaeda-aligned groups apparently making their presence felt in this unfolding horror story.

            And to believe that although this conflict is linked to the Arab Spring, it has a very different, very dangerous context.

            To believe this does not imply support for Assad and his tyrannical ways. It instead recognises that if the destruction of a country, a society and of people is the answer, the question was very, very wrong.

            • Jenny 1.1.3.1.2.1

              In 1939 similar rationalisations for fence sitting, were raised by well meaning liberals regarding he nazis.

              Careful Rosy, once you start down this slippery slope, it is not to far to go to become a fully fledged screaming Assad apologist like Colonial Viper.

              • rosy

                Whoa! Apart from fence-sitting being no view, whereas I have one – and it’s not agreeing that all and sundry getting in on the act of destroying Syria is a good thing – I rather agree with Carol (below)

                I Do take exception to being branded an Assad [and naz1] apologist. As this issue has become just slinging mud at anyone who doesn’t agree with you, Jenny, I will not be attempting to discuss the issue with you further.

              • Colonial Viper

                yeah Jenny except you’ve chosen the side of Mussolini

          • Carol 1.1.3.1.3

            So, you’re saying, “You are either with us or against us”?

            Me, I’m on the side of social justice, democracy and humanitarian principles. The big powers dabbling in the middle east are ensuring none of these are the winners.

            • Jenny 1.1.3.1.3.1

              Do you care to ignore the fact that Assad is a murderer and torturer of his own people?

              • Colonial Viper

                Do you care that Al-Qaedi Iraq, and other foreign infiltrators and jihadists are murderers of Syrian citizens, while you cheer on?

          • Carol 1.1.3.1.4

            PS: You haven’t really dealt with the widespread criticisms, as indicated in the links and quotes I provided regarding the role of the US and other powerful interests, subverting the Syrian rebellion for their own purposes. This was an attempt to participate in an evidence-based debate.

            All I’ve had in response, Jenny, is some emotive responses and ad hominems: asking what side I’m on, and blanket inclusions (I assume) of me in the ones you brand as Assad apologists.

            I Do take exception to being branded an Assad apologist. As this issue has become just slinging mud at anyone who doesn’t agree with you, Jenny, I will not be attempting to discuss the issue with you further.

            I will enter any debate/discussion that is based on evidence and rational analysis.

    • Jenny 1.2

      The time line of Colonial Viper’s continuined apology for the regime of Bashar Assad.

      Colonial Viper
      21 July 2012 at 11:11 pm

      Feel free to ignore the active destabilisation of a peaceful and culturally advanced country to get to this point, however.

      As for a choice between Assad and the rebels…we know what we’re going to get with Assad. What are we going to get with the rebels? Sharia law and a roll back of womens rights to the norm of every other arab country?

      I might also throw in CV’s ignorant, (if not racist) dismissal of the still unfolding Arab Spring, probably one of the greatest social movements in human history.

      Colonial Viper
      21 July 2012 at 11:15 pm

      Lets roll the dice then eh. Working out for the Egyptians is it?

      Colonial Viper
      23 July 2012 at 7:03 pm

      Hey Jenny, never thought you’d fall for Western propaganda so hard. Cheering the “Freedom Fighters” on are we? Like I said, let’s talk in 18 months and see if women are still allowed in Damascus universities.

      Colonial Viper
      22 July 2012 at 2:24 am

      What I expect is the overthrow of Assad followed by years, if not decades, of chaos.

      Colonial rule, from the capitals of the west, through their compliant proxies no matter how distateful. We’ve seen this a dozen times before in the last 100 years. Good of Zetetic and others to be so blindly optimistic (and historically ignorant) though.

      Colonial Viper
      3 August 2012 at 2:29 am

      Jenny, still buying into the loner blog massacre marketing of the “Free Syrian Army” (long since shown to itself be staffed by foreign fighters, islamic and salaafi fighters, funded by Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia).

      A bit of summary justice up against a wall now your style is it? Not even a chance for legal representation, appeal, or handing over to the Red Cross. I guess that’s a big improvement on Assad in your eyes, your FSA heroes.

      After his hero Assad threatened to use nerve gas against the insurgents, CV refused to condemn this option, claiming that it wouldn’t be a war crime.

      I think most people’s disgust is reserved for the dictator and his apologists.

      You’re such a war-monger. And parroting the same WMD-threat lines the US used to justify war against Saddam Hussein? Wow keep sucking in the Western pro-war propaganda kool-aid Jenny.

      Hey do you really like the fact that Al Qaida Iraq bomb masters are now working out of Syria?

      And oh look, it looks like the CIA is supporting the FSA. You like the CIA right, Jenny? Wait didn’t you say that the US was on Assad’s side in this conflict? Oh yeah you were wrong on that because you have no understanding of geopolitical interests.

      You still standing by the deluded idea that this “uprising” is of the Syrian people, by the Syrian people, for the Syrian people? Gotta admire your consistency against the facts from a dozen different official news sources, while you rely on some obscure blogs instead.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9445649/CIA-authorised-to-offer-intelligence-support-to-Syrian-rebels.html

      Strange how Colonial Viper was silent on the mass murder of unarmed civilians and the mass detention and torture of women and children in the families of the deserters which began all the violence.

      You’re watching the collapse of a country engineered by external powers, and inflitrated by many thousands of foreign fighters funded and supported by Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

      Justify your bloodthirst how you like, but the disintegration of Syria that you revel in has just begun.

      And here is the real kicker: When stories emerged from Syria that Assad might use deadly gas against the “foreign forces”. Colonial Viper tried to defend Assad, by saying that the use of chemical weapons could not be defined as genocide. He then repeatedly refused to answer whether he thought it was OK for Assad to use these weapons against the FSA.

      Colonial Viper
      24 July 2012 at 8:41 pm

      You’re such a sucker for pro-military action propaganda. Tell me again how independent “freedom fighters” gained the ability to take on an entire professional military without extensive outside help?

      CV, in repeating the Assad propaganda line that the insurrection is the work of foreign interventionists. You are giving your support to the regime to commit genocide.

      Tip – the use of chemical weapons is not how genocide is defined.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        Jenny, thousands of foreign fighters, including Al Qaida bomb experts, have now infiltrated Syria with the help of external powers. You need to recognise that the FSA is now neither “of the people”, “by the people” or “for the people”.

        BTW you demonstrate a certain immaturity in not being able to see beyond a good versus evil fundamentalist view of the world. Please grow up.

        And I don’t answer your bullshit false premise hypotheticals.

    • Jenny 1.3

      “In the beginning they told us there were armed gangs, but when the revolution started there was no armed resistance at all.”

      McNaught “Why was it necessary?”

      Captive, “In order to maintain, and in order to keep the regime operative we must keep them afraid.”

      “….. we were only following orders.”

      McNaught, “At what stage did you personally question those orders?”

      Captive, “You can’t question, if you do they prosecute you in a military court.”

      http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/al-jazeera-speaks-to-captured-secret-police-in-northern-syria/

      • Jenny 1.3.1

        Kiwi reporter Anita McNaught interview of captured Syrian Secret Police officers responsible for the shooting of unarmed protesters and responsible for over a hundred ‘disappeared’ civilian detainees.

        • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.1

          Frak off Jenny. You’re a pro-war activist. 🙄

          • Jenny 1.3.1.1.1

            And you are a supporter of mass murder and torturer, terribly offended that those long victimised by your hero are hitting back.

      • Colonial Viper 1.3.2

        Al Jazeera is owned and funded by Qatari royalty. Who happen to be major American allies in the region, as well as hosting a major US military base on their soil.

        • Jenny 1.3.2.1

          CV, does your smear that Al Jazeera is bought and sold, also apply to Anita McNaught?

          • Colonial Viper 1.3.2.1.1

            is she being paid by them?

            • Jenny 1.3.2.1.1.1

              Your implied slur being that because Anita McNaught works for Al Jazeera that in your opinion she is bought and sold?

              You are one contemptible bastard. And a disgrace to this country.

              • Colonial Viper

                Get your head in the game Jenny. Like a bad marksman you can’t even see your target, let alone hit it.

              • bad12

                Yay you are nearly at 1 point of TRUTH, you bet, journalism aint about getting on a world wide TV broadcast and telling it how you want to tell it,

                Jouralism is ALL about getting on the TV and telling it like how the Bossman tells you to…

            • Jenny 1.3.2.1.1.2

              If people want a life then destiny must respond. The fetters must be broken and the people of Aleppo must be free. And they will be victorious, because their cause is a just cause and the cause of Syria is a just cause. [Huge explosion]

              From Anita McNaught’s interview of fighters on the front lines

              http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/as-battle-for-aleppo-rages-rebels-seize-the-countryside/

              Kiwi hero Anita McNaught dodges shell fire and snipers to get her story. While Assad apologist Colonial Viper safe at home, in cowardly anonymity, attacks her integrity.

              • Colonial Viper

                Freedom under the yoke of foreign sponsored Al Qaida bomb makers and imported Salafi jihadists.

                • Jenny

                  Human beings under an intolerable yoke standing up for their dignity and freedom.

                  Concepts that cowards, traitors, quislings, have trouble conceiving.

                • Jenny

                  Blah blah, “Al Qaida”, Blah, “Arabs”, Blah blah, “Bomb makers”, Blah, Jihadis. CV you are getting to sound more like George Bush everyday.

              • bad12

                If people want a life destiny must respond, the arms trade must be enriched and it’s traders paid in the blood of the innocents who the obviously bought Anita McNaught gives scant thought to while whipping up the the winds of propaganda,

                Because their cause is a just cause they will be victorious, who the hell does that pompous little prat think she is addressing, the f**king producer that got her to blast that out at the world has obviously read one to many 98 page westerns,

                If the might of right or ‘just cause’ were to be the diviner of victory or defeat there would not at this point in history be a modern State of Israel…

              • bad12

                the fact tho that the propagandarists can arrange a huge explosion as the punctuation to McNaughts emotive bullshit, shows they do have some organizational ability,

                Since when is such emotive bullshit Journalism???…

                • Jenny

                  I might remind you bad, that, that was a real tank shell that landed near McNaught.

                  If you think something like that can be scripted, then you are deeply into the conspiracy theory alternate nut-job universe.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    place a shell 200m away and when you need it, set it off with a small charge.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Bad, CV. I know you were posting late at night so you may have been tired and emotional, but c’mon, get a grip.
                       
                      This is the list of journos killed so far this year. Think on.

          • bad12 1.3.2.1.2

            Anita McNaught, snigger a truer hero of the peoples revolution has never trod the sands of the desert…

  2. rosy 2

    In the ‘you can’t have that excuse we’re using it’ file (also comes under the ‘do as we say not do as we do’ file):

    The Government has ordered Canterbury University to get its house in order and its deficits under control before it considers additional support…

    …University vice-chancellor Rod Carr said it was haemorrhaging $100,000 each business day and he planned to cut 150 jobs over the next three years.

    The quakes have put the university under pressure because fulltime-equivalent student numbers have fallen by 2200.

    Insurance costs have jumped and staff costs continue to rise.

    The university has used $35m of its dwindling cash reserves and plans to increase its debt from $50m to $118m by 2021.

    On top of these pressures, the university also needs $150m to repair and renew its earthquake damaged buildings, above insurance proceeds.

    How exactly does the government expect the tertiary education sector to recover, I wonder?

    • CnrJoe 2.1

      disaster capitalism rosy! sell assets!! look after yourselves by selling yourselves to us! The hijack will be televised – but not realised – til too late.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      It doesn’t. This government expects it to crash and burn thus allowing more tax cuts for the rich and making it far too expensive for anyone but the rich to go to university.

    • Dr Terry 2.3

      Rosy, this government has no such expectation, and could not care less.

    • rosy 2.4

      After having a wee think about it I’m going with CnrJoe – disaster capitalism means not that the university’s assets will be sold, but the university itself will be sold. A privately endowed university in Christchurch is my pick – the transfer of public assets to private capitalists.

  3. BillODrees 3

    Rather than gaining, from National’s six months of poor performances, Labour leaders  Sherer/Robertson have slipped in the polls.    The strategies and the personnel have to be questioned. 

    The proposed organisational changes, that concentrate power in a new Wellington/Caucus weighted “Management Committee” has to be stopped.

    The proposed organisational change is designed to reduce the influence that the members have through Regional, Sectoral, and other forums. The role of the National Council is gutted by the Causuc shaped “Management Committee”. 

    Add this to the Robertson inspired 67% rule that entrenches the current personnel and their strategies and despair. Or rebel. Like those brave ones, at the Nortcote meeting last night for the Labour North members, who spoke out.

    All Labour members should read the proposed amendments to the Constitution.  The devil is in the detail. Every LEC and group must make a strong submission to stop the centralisation of power in the hands of those who have failed since 2008. 

    • Bored 3.1

      ….a new Wellington/Caucus weighted “Management Committee” aka party central, aka politburo…

      When people talk “management” the term has underlying constructs: manage means “control”, manage requires known “relative positions” (hierachy), manage means using a “process” to get a required result. It does not brook democracy, consent etc. Its about power.

      Beware indeed.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    Labour has failed to make traction in the latest polls, and Shearer has gone backwards.

    If you want a neat summation of why they are going nowhere, their response to the tragic deaths of our troops in Afghanistan is it. Instead of David Shearer using his UN credentials to authoritatively lambast the government for being to close to the United States and demanding our troops come home now from this hopeless and miserable war, he stayed the invisible man while the right wing, pro-American yesterday man Phil Goff was lined up to support the government to the hilt.

    Labour’s front bench is worse than hopeless. It isn’t firing because most them seem to be as right wing as National, and they agree with the government. and even for the current bunch of self-serving, institutionalised and lazy bastards lying all the time that they are not is hard work.

    • tc 4.1

      Labour is doomed to be a minor party unless it’s rank and file wake up and boot the under performing Front bench out. Parker’s been especially piss weak allowing Blinglish a free ride and the list goes on with education, Justice, Environment etc

      Radical moves for serious times required, the MSM are being allowed to dictate far too much with the Gay marriage bill IMO a huge distraction whilst asset sales and the general plunder carries mercilessly onwards.

      Shonkey’s loving this, toying with the gay vote whilst the other hand’s pick pocketing your future.

      Come on labour party members ! Are you in it for the good of NZ or your own need to belong to a club that’s leaders are sending out of the business of governing NZ.

      • David H 4.1.1

        I’ve given up on them. They don’t listen. And are heading towards the abyss with no one at the wheel.
        They should never have elected Shearer, he was never going to be ready. And you cannot run a political party by proxy, as Robertson, Parker and co are doing. The unfortunate thing is this. Unless they get their shit together, they are going to be the also rans, and the Nacts will get another 3 years to rob and pillage. (And this makes me madder at them).
        They are nothing but bunch of self serving wankers, that don’t give a shit for the people that put them into power. Damn you would almost think I am talking about the Nacts, but I am NOT.
        Also it makes me wonder if they are in secret cahoots with Key and Co.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

          Damn you would almost think I am talking about the Nacts, but I am NOT.

          There’s little to no difference between the two. They follow the same economic paradigm and that paradigm has effectively removed all moral principles from politics. Under the guidance of the two main parties profit and greed have become the driving force of our society.

        • smokeskreen 4.1.1.2

          Shearer was the wrong choice from the start and unless they change leaders quick smart, Labour will be consigned to opposition for the foreseeable future. Labour is not providing any opposition whatsoever and the Greens and NZ First are filling that void. Strong decisive leadership is required – David Cunliffe has these credentials.

      • Vicky32 4.1.2

        Come on labour party members ! Are you in it for the good of NZ or your own need to belong to a club that’s leaders are sending out of the business of governing NZ.

        I counted three anti-Labour posts in a row (yours was the 3rd). There’s more anti-Labour talk here than there probably is on one of the RWNJ sites! Seriously, it annoys me greatly.
        Some of it looks like concern trolling, the rest is just abuse.

        Are you all greens, or just curmudgeons?

        • muzza 4.1.2.1

          Aligning with any of the parties of the establishment, and indeed any of them generally, is like a turkey voting for an early christmas V32.

          Put this this way, Labour having been sold out in the 80’s, have been deliberately moved towards the right ever since, so much so that they are basically now National. The Greens were created to fool people into thinking that there was a new hope on the left, but they too are moving to the right…who is seeing the trend there….

          Which party will spring up next, why is Colin Craig getting all that air time again…

          So the question becomes, where is the so called left, where is the choice, and where the hell is our democracy heading….Oh yeah, to the right!

        • David H 4.1.2.2

          It’s not anti Labour ( I have voted for them all my life) since I was able to vote. I find that my periods of employment usually start about 6 months after a Labour govt was elected, and lasted until about 8 months after a National govt was elected. I worked 8 of the Helen govt’s 9 years and 9 mths of John Keys Brighter Paradise. And as I work in Fast food mine was one of the businesses first hit hard when the ,Nats started robbing the people with tax cuts for the rich. and mass job cuts for the poor. And GST increase for all. Now it’s been near a year since Robertson and co went against the Rank’n’File and elected Shearer, and Labour has been like a yacht caught in the doldrums ever since, and the silence has been deafening. And as for the Bullshit that The 2014 election is Nationals to lose. I disagree it’s Labours to lose and they are going to lose, and lose badly, unless the get their shit together, and get Rid of Shearer and the Helen mob (they are past their use by date). Yes I know, that don’t leave many, but from whats left I am sure they can rebuild a better party and one that sticks to their principles. Because at the moment it’s not voter apathy, it’s Labour apathy. People are sick of the same old, self centered, me, type of politics, that has come out of the the ruins of the last election. But unfortunately they won’t listen, so I’ll vote Green this time around.

    • deuto 4.2

      Labour are so out of the picture that Stuff has an opinion poll on its site this morning asking “Which party is doing the best right now?” which does not even include Labour in its list of parties! LOL.

      Very bottom of the right hand column on this page:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7419712/Polls-show-gains-for-National

      Talk about the forgotten party.

      • deuto 4.2.1

        PS – Have emailed the Stuff editor asking whether this was deliberate – or a ‘stuff up”.

      • David H 4.2.2

        They are there, 3rd down right under the Greens.

        ACT

        Greens

        Labour

        Mana

        Maori Party

        National

        NZ First

        UnitedFuture

        None of them

        • deuto 4.2.2.1

          Labour was definitely not in the list earlier – checked several times before emailing them.
          So obviously updated.

    • Jim Nald 4.3

      “… It isn’t firing …”

      damp squib comes to mind

      the membership must be highly admired for being so bloody patient … let’s hope they hang in till after 2014 to help natz get a third term … or perhaps a fourth

  5. marsman 5

    Serco is a corporate cancer which already has a foothold in NZ through the odious Judith Collins’ ‘Prisons for profit’ scam. Will it’s next inroad in NZ be into Social Welfare via one of the vile Paula Bennet’s ‘Welfare is wasted on the poor it should go towards corporate profits’ scams? Serco really needs whatever money it can extract from essential public services because hundreds of billions of dollars profit a year is just not enough.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/05/serco-bid-national-citizen-service

  6. AmaKiwi 6

    The National government is responsible for the brutal death of seven New Zealanders in Afghanistan in two years.  
     
    In 2003, then Defense Minister Mark Burton made clear our people were being sent to Afghanistan to work peacefully, NOT violently.
     
    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/node/17264
     
     
    When the new National government replaced our peace workers with the heavily armed SAS , Phil Goff eloquently spoke against it. 
     
     
    Our people are being killed in Afghanistan because National sent in the SAS. 
     
    In today’s NZ Herald David Shearer endorses National’s war policy.  He ignores the Clark government’s policy of peaceful reconstruction. 
     
    Shearer endorses National’s war policies.  Parker endorses National’s neo-liberal economic policies.  Robertson reprimands David Cunliffe for being too assertive in his environmental policies.
     
    Shearer, Parker, and Robertson should just join the National Party instead of pretending to be the opposition.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

      • aerobubble 6.1.1

        We don’t live in a perfect world, true Key could easily have opted out earlier, and it cringes the
        hell out of me to see him turn up smiling on morning TV like a vulture picking over the dead.
        When politicians had some decorum and kept aloof and apart, reiterating the basis of the
        military intervention, and under scoring the bi-partisan aspects of the deployment.
        But not with our slime ball PM, he was all over it like a lawyer at the emergency room door.
        Afghanistan, its like the world military is trying to educate the Afgans on how utterly stupid
        warfare is, and when we do leave, leave behind a don’t-make-us-comeback sign on every
        Afghan heart.

      • Bored 6.1.2

        Shearer, Parker, and Robertson should just join the National Party instead of pretending to be the opposition. too bloody true!

    • Jimmie 6.2

      Yeah like the mad taliban care whether kiwi soldiers are armed or not.

      Duh- think about it, The Taliban think they’re on a jihad so they don’t care if the infidel are armed or not – kill the lot of them.

      I personally think that Afghanistan should be left to morass in its own mess as it is such a hodge podge of tribal conflicts mixed with mad mullah jihadists.

      Think of the billions poured in by the US to try and improve the lot of the country and all the thanks they get are bombs and fighting.

      The ones I really feel sorry for when the US finally does exit Afghanistan are the women folk.

      They have had a taste of freedom and education and then they will lose it again and go back to being dogs for their islamist masters once the US has gone.

      • tc 6.2.1

        +1 It’s a decades old conflict about resources, not freedom or terrorism.Leave them to it and watch China step in.

        Obama has shown he’s no better then Bush etc in this regard and Shonkey’s gov’t loves obediently following the US no matter what the cost to ordinary Kiwis.

        To Key it’s just another deal the Hollowmen have authorised he has to front.

        • David H 6.2.1.1

          Decades??? The rest of the world has been trying to tame Afghanistan for centuries The british in the 18th and 19th century the Russians in the 20th Now the Yanks Brits and we got dragged in too, in the 21st century. So yes let China have a go they will get drained as well.

          • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1

            Since Alexander.

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1.2

            So yes let China have a go they will get drained as well.

            Since Alexander.

            Both China and Iran have been around long enough to see all this go down in Afghanistan through the centuries. Its only young nations who are foolish enough to head into that graveyard of empires.

            • bad12 6.2.1.1.2.1

              Indeed!!! the ill fated invasion of Afghanistan has been the time bell that rang for more than one of the invading Empires slow demise on the long march to the Graveyard,

              Perhaps the latest adventure to despoil the soils of that country will lead to the death of yet another….

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.2

        Yeah like the mad taliban care whether kiwi soldiers are armed or not.

        They’re likely to care very deeply if your country’s special forces troops are actively engaged in offensive military operations against them. Which ours are.

        And they’re not “mad” they are a highly adaptive group which can hold their own against modern military forces with 50x the resources they have.

        • bad12 6.2.2.1

          Exactly, My understanding of what occurred was that Afghan fighters attacked a group of Afghan Special Forces and the NZ soldiers were called in to help the Afghan Special Forces,

          While we have to have sympathy for both our soldiers on the ground and their families back home we also have to realize that that aint the actions of a ‘peaceful reconstruction team’

          The Afghan’s are brawlers they have either kicked the arse of every invader of their country for a 1000 years or worn them down until they realize the profits of resource invasion are far out-weighed by the losses they can and do inflict…

          • Bored 6.2.2.1.1

            Every comment above has one or more examples of, reasons why Afghanistan has constantly had foreign invaders. One thing stands out: its us (foreigners) with troops over there.

            I don’t recall seeing any Afghans, Taliban. Al Qaeda or otherwise in downtown Wellington, Moscow, Washington. I expect the NZ Army to defend me, here, not there.

            • Rob 6.2.2.1.1.1

              You may have missed Al Qaeda in Manahattan a few years back, just a small fracas by all accounts.

              • bad12

                I certainly didn’t miss that particular organization, (Al Qaeda), in Afghanistan being funded and armed by the US Government to fight the Russian invasion of that country,

                Ever thought to ask yourself when that particular Government stopped arming and paying that particular organization…

              • Bored

                Indeed…minor incursion compared to whole armies marauding around the Middle East region for the last several centuries. Spectacular result, and very criminal to boot.

                Does however raise the question, “How innocent are we, the civilians who are targeted by “terrorists” when we allow our governments to “terrorise” the “terrorists” countries”?

                PS: As a result of that incursion I now get hassled every time I go to get on an aeroplane by x-ray blockwarts who seem to think I am going to hijack the plane and crash it into the side of something….there are no worthy targets in NZ!

              • Vicky32

                You may have missed Al Qaeda in Manahattan a few years back, just a small fracas by all accounts.

                What are you talking about?
                Belatedly it occurs to me that you mean 9/11, but I hope you know that Al Quaeda had less to do with that than they have to do with the Kindergarten Association! 😀

      • Vicky32 6.2.3

        They have had a taste of freedom and education and then they will lose it again and go back to being dogs for their islamist masters once the US has gone.

        I misread that as American masters, and for good reason! Who do you think runs Afghanistan?
        Are you really naive enough to believe either that the Americans went into Afghanistan to ‘liberate women’, or that the women of Afghanistan are actually any better off? I know a few Afghani refugees you should have a word with.

    • A.Ziffel 6.3

      Where do you get your facts from? Even your 2003 link refers to special forces…

      The SAS were initially deployed between 2001 & 2005. (Willie Apiata’s award was from an engagement in 2004).
      They were then redeployed in 2009.

      The NZPRT have been in Afghanistan since 2003. Though not a combat unit, I would hesitate to describe the NZDF & NZPolice members as “peace workers”.

    • Rosie 6.4

      True AmaKiwi. It was dissapointing to see Shearer and Key having the same view of NZ’s involvement in Afghanistan on TV3 news last night. They both came across as patronising and authoritarian, and of course both fully supportive of our “efforts” there.

    • TT 6.5

      + 1

      Shonkey is a war criminal. Nothing more; nothing less. He should face justice for his crimes. Not likely to happen though, as long as the judiciary & media remain firmly in NACT control.

  7. aerobubble 7

    CAB is not free when so many now have limited access to landlines.

    Just listening to the radio about possums, and how possums should be exterminated, but
    Kiwis are not innovative enough to turning it into a gambling opportunity. I mean
    have a damn competition for bloody sake! Every week the Town or suburb that has
    the most dead possums wins the opportunity to take part in a yearly play off, where
    they go up against the ten most prolific possum killing towns. Also any road kill
    is counted as half a kill. Now tell me, how long before the possum is extinct in NZ?

    Damnit, I want to know which town in NZ killed the most possums last week!!!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      Personally, I think we should just invite the Australians to take them back. We’ll supply shipping and bio-security and all they have to do is catch the bloody things. I’m sure they’ll be happy at the opportunity to repatriate their lost fauna 😈

    • weka 7.2

      Aero, most possums live in places where there are no people, let alone any towns.
       
      Want to know how young men in the country like to kill possums? With a spotlight and rifle from a car. It’s illegal, and sometimes dangerous.
       
       

    • McFlock 7.3

      After a month or two, they should tax the possum farms of the winning areas…

  8. From Stuff: Figures suggest wealthy carry tax burden

    …the “high net wealth” individuals tracked by the IRD, who each control $50 million or more of wealth, paid 33.9 percent for their personal income, and 28.2 percent when other taxable income was included, such as that earned through a trust, a PIE, or a company.

    …an indicative comparator for someone on an average wage was 17.9 per cent, although Working for Families entitlements would reduce the average net tax rate to 8.4 per cent for a single-earner parent with one child, or 2.3 per cent with two children.

    When Working for Families rebates are taken into account, 40 to 50 percent of households “effectively pay no net income tax, and roughly 40 to 50 percent of total net income tax is paid by those in the top 10 per cent income bracket, suggesting that the tax burden falls most heavily on the wealthy”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/7416899/Figures-suggest-wealthy-carry-tax-burden

    That’s not surprising but it’s interesting to see the actual numbers.

    • You are not appalled that someone can accumulate more than $50 million of wealth but grateful that they may be paying their share of tax?
       

    • Dv 8.2

      DUH
      Of course the wealthy carry the tax burden

      They Carry the BURDEN of EARNING the most

      • prism 8.2.1

        Dv

        DUH
        Of course the wealthy carry the tax burden
        They Carry the BURDEN of EARNING the most

        Oh the burden – tote that barge, lift that bale (of scrip, gold, property) the poor rich people.

    • DH 8.3

      “That’s not surprising but it’s interesting to see the actual numbers.”

      It would be interesting to see the actual numbers. That article doesn’t show them.

      In short the article mostly says that higher income earners have a higher marginal tax rate than lower income earners. We already know that, the tax system has only worked like that for about a hundred years. Duh!

      They also conveniently miss out GST which brings in just under half the revenue that income tax does now, and guess who pays most of the GST.

      • Pete George 8.3.1

        From what the article also says plus a simple calculation:

        – 40-50% of households “effectively pay no net income tax”
        – 40-50% of households will pay 50-60% of net income tax
        – the top 10% income bracket pay roughly 40-50% of total net income tax

        They also conveniently miss out GST which brings in just under half the revenue that income tax does now, and guess who pays most of the GST.

        Those who spend the most will pay the most. Which will generally be those with the most money to spend. Plus businesses will also spend quite a bit on GST.

        • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1

          Fuck all this shit

          Its time to tax capital, and its time to tax unearned income. Two gaping areas left untouched, while ordinary workers get it in the neck from PAYE income tax and regressive GST.

        • DH 8.3.1.2

          Yes they say that but they don’t front up with any evidence of it do they. People say a lot of things, that doesn’t make everything they say true does it.

          And as for GST, some figures…… left column is annual taxable income and right column is total GST paid by each group in $millions

          1 – 10,000 $ 353
          10,000 – 20,000 $1,316
          20,000 – 30,000 $1,081
          30,000 – 40,000 $1,242
          40,000 – 50,000 $1,368
          50,000 – 60,000 $1,294
          60,000 – 70,000 $1,028
          70,000 – 80,000 $ 737
          80,000 – 90,000 $ 488
          90,000 – 100,000 $ 450
          100,000 – 150,000 $ 915
          150,000+ $ 936

          Bit different from the income tax picture isn’t it. Wonder why they never print this one.

          And businesses don’t spend anything on GST. They claim it all back.

          • mike e 8.3.1.2.1

            they avoid as much as they can dh no doubt but good info thanks DH

            • DH 8.3.1.2.1.1

              I had to work those out from some Treasury figures related to something else so don’t take them as 100% gospel. I am reasonably comfortable with the way I calculated it, could be wrong but I don’t think it is.

              • Colonial Viper

                Yep. GST is a regressive tax.

                Someone on $30K pa may spend $15 in GST for their family groceries.

                But someone earning 10x that on $300K pa may spend just $30 in GST for their family groceries. They earn 10x as much, but their family doesn’t eat 10x as much food.

                Ditto for power, petrol, other necessities of daily living. The person on the low wage ends up paying far more of their income to GST.

                • Jim Nald

                  The tax burden of PAYE income tax and regressive GST (and also thanks to not being able to avoid taxes with the help of accountants) hits harder on the poor who have much less discretionary income.

              • bad12

                Nah, your figures for the 10-20 thousand income band are spot on, well at least they match my crude back of the envelope riffmatic,

                I come up with a flat 1300 and i doubt anyone is taking to the trenches over the missing 16…

          • bad12 8.3.1.2.2

            Good figures,thanks for printing them,

            When looked at we also have to realize that those in the 10-20 and 20-30 thousand dollar income brackets are those either trapped by dint of being benefit dependent or minimum wage workers,

            Especially in the 10-20 bracket when the price of anything they purchase rises the % of GST against their total income also rises, in effect an ongoing cut to their benefit or wages by the Government,

            Except for starvation it is inescapable, with income between 10 and 20 thousand dollars there is no such thing as disposable income,

            It would be nice to have a look at the Treasury’s advice to the Finance Minister befor the rack-raising of the GST went ahead in conjunction with the tax cutting of the top 40% of income earners as the simple riffmatic i am capable of suggests that at about year 5 the 1.9 billion dollar hole blown in the Governments revenue from taxation by the tax cuts for the National Party core vote will close as those in the lower income brackets pay as a % of income more and more GST,

            Cynically accomplished with full knowledge of the effects by the Treasury, the Finance Minister,and the Slippery National Government, i think so and can vaguely remember an off the cuff comment from Bill English a while back suggesting something similar, although i cannot as yet find a link to that…

  9. Bored 9

    All eyes are on the Olympics, all eyes are on Afghanistan, all eyes are on the latest “polls”…
    all eyes should be on Spain, Italy, Greece. Domino time, coming closer.

    • TT 10.1

      That’s precisely what I though Penny. 9/11 can’t have been anything else but a controlled demolition. It has the filthy marks of Mossad, The Republican Party and the rest of the global Zionist movement all over it.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        Any specialist trained dems team with the right materials and security access could have done it. Ten or less people over 6-12 months.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1

          And GM bacteria could have escaped from a lab and devoured most of the supporting concrete in WTC, which had tragic consequences when GPS signal interference overruled a dodgy software patch on the INS systems of four aircraft which then flew on the bearing of the strongest signal transmission towers in the area, and all the poorly paid and overworked aircrew were snoring happily away except for on one plane where the autopilot turnoff switched forced a nosedive into some fields.
             
          After a stuff-up like that, they just had to blame someone….

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1

            Yep, it’s easier to believe that highly assymetrical structural and fire damage to two steel framed skyscrapers caused the completely symmetrical collapse on to foot print of three steel framed sckyscrapers.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.1

              It is when alternative explanations come from mouth-frothers.

              • Colonial Viper

                I could never quite get how the foaming at the mouth thing is supposed to happen…

                • McFlock

                  You need to be on the receiving end of the flecks.
                           
                  Occam’s razor is a wonderful thing. And generally seems to do the job.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Sure, a simple question then. Who had the most to gain, politically and financially, from 9/11.

                    • McFlock

                      China. 
                                 

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Haliburton is owned by China?

                    • McFlock

                      Nah.
                               
                      But in case you haven’t noticed, China has bounded its sphere of influence massively forward in the last 10years, including more forceful steps in e.g. the Spratlys as well as increases of influence in Africa. Not to mention selling an awful lot of stuff to the yanks for them to burn in Central/west Asia.
                               
                      Oh, Halliburton has made billions if not trillions, but you asked who’d benefited most.    
                         
                      And the question presupposes finance and base politics being the only motives possible for 9/11.  

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Iran did very well regionally as well.

                      Feel free to suggest any other motives too.

                    • McFlock

                      An equally plausible explanation.
                      Ignore the tags for it about “Islam” etc. It basically compares AQ extremists with US religious extremists on the other side. But not in a “clash of civilizations” sort of way – more “nutbars of all flavours”.
                           
                      Similar to The Power of Nightmares, but a different angle and more detail.
                           
                      But anyway, Iran did ok regionally, but not globally. China’s good for a hundred years of international supremacy, if it can maintain internal stability (big if IMO). 

  10. Pascal's bookie 11

    Is any one surprised that Peter Dunne was lying about the advice he’d recieved about min pricing on alcohol?

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/dunne-on-alcohol-pricing.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      No, can’t say I am.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 11.2

      Nope, not surprised in the least.

    • Colonial Viper 11.3

      SHOCKED I tell you.

    • Te Reo Putake 11.4

      This is a typical left wing beat up and it does the Standard no credit that you would allows this baseless Labour Party smear to be repeated.
       
      Lying has always been UF policy. Peter Dunne mentioned it at every candidate meeting I attended and I won’t need two days to find evidence of that like I did with Asset Sales.
       

    • felix 11.5

      I’m shocked that the Dunne fan club isn’t interested. Guess it’s been busy trying to figure out more important stuff, like ‘is there really a right wing?’ and ‘why do the people who own everything and have all the money have to pay tax while the people with nothing and no money hardly pay any?’

  11. mac1 12

    Some figures for you, DH. They answer PG as to why the wealthy should pay most tax.

    More than half of New Zealand’s total net worth is now owned by the richest 10 per cent of the population. According to a survey by Statistics NZ in 2003-04 ….. the richest 10 per cent own 52 per cent. The richest half of the country owns 95 per cent. The share of the poorest half is now 5 per cent.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10432468 (This article was written in 2007 but I should not expect a huge change in 2012.)

    This of course demands the question as to who is ‘wealthy.’ The top 1% who own 16% of NZ’s worth, the top 5% who own 38%, the top 10% who own 52% or the top 50% who own 95%?

    And who are the poor? The bottom 50% own 5% of NZ’s net worth.

  12. Fortran 13

    A UN appointment is Tax Free irrespective of the tax base of the actual recipient.
    Normally any NZ citizen with any income from wherever is taxed according to NZ tax regulations with all income included and taxable.

  13. Rosie 14

    Fail wages. Fail Pay. Fail standard of living. Fail good health and well being. Fail productivity. Fail social cohesion. Fail family and friends time. Fail peace of mind. Fail self fulfilment.

    Comparison chart for American wages and conditions: 1970’s Vs now

    If you can be bothered with the comments start at about number 10. Its interesting to hear an American viewpoint of their diminishing pay and personal time

    http://failblog.org/2012/08/03/job-fails-monday-thru-friday-what-was-that-office-space-dvd-cover-line-again/

    • joe90 14.1

      They’re all doing it Rosie.

      http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/30/258388/corporate-profits-recovery/

      “Between the second quarter of 2009 and the fourth quarter of 2010, real national income in the U.S. increased by $528 billion. Pre-tax corporate profits by themselves had increased by $464 billion while aggregate real wages and salaries rose by only $7 billion or only .1%. Over this six quarter period, corporate profits captured 88% of the growth in real national income while aggregate wages and salaries accounted for only slightly more than 1% of the growth in real national income. …The absence of any positive share of national income growth due to wages and salaries received by American workers during the current economic recovery is historically unprecedented.”

      http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/96136?type=bloomberg

      Between 2007 and 2010, working-class people — those in nonprofessional occupations who lack college degrees — saw their median earnings fall 4.6 percent, according to a study of U.S. census data prepared for Bloomberg News by Sentier Research of Annapolis, Maryland. Over the same period, earnings for college-educated professionals or managers rose 1.9 percent.

      Working-class males were especially hard hit, with median annual earnings falling 6.6 percent, more than three times the 1.9 percent loss suffered by all employees, according to the study, an effort to quantify the recession’s impact on labor.

      http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/bankers-salaries-vs-everyone-elses/

      It shows that the average salary in the industry in 2010 was $361,330 — five and a half times the average salary in the rest of the private sector in the city ($66,120). By contrast, 30 years ago such salaries were only twice as high as in the rest of the private sector.

      • Rosie 14.1.1

        Thanks for those links Joe90. The experience of the American worker seems to be echoed in similarly politically/socially/industrial based nations around the world, including ours. We have our differences but for the average person it comes back to a reduction in wages, conditions, freedoms and rights. All those rights and conditions that were so hard won over generations and decades have been wittled away at by the influence and power of the corporate agenda upon governments, and we’re no different in our experience here. Its interesting to see a young persons mouth fall open when you tell them about things from another time like overtime, collective bargaining and regular rostered hours.
        On another note at least we have some, albeit reduced as well, access to health care. The health of the American people must be in serious decline with no access to health care or social support. Theres been a couple of documentaries I’ve watched reporting people dying of preventable diseases and injury because of it. With reduced wages and long hours feeling healthy and well must be something one could only dream about. All the breakthroughs in science and health care means nothing if no one can afford it except the wealthy. I guess thats the idea though.

      • joe90 14.1.2

        Frank said it best in 1981:

        The last election just laid the foundation of the next 500 years of Dark Ages

        .

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Climate change is NOT the urgent issue of our civilisation, ENERGY DEPLETION is.

      • McFlock 15.1.1

        Be nice – they both are 🙁

        • weka 15.1.1.1

          Yes, but addressing energy depletion is more likely to be successful and will help mitigate some of the cc issues. We are well beyond doing anything meaningful about cc itself, not because we are impotent, but because we really don’t give a shit.
           
          All credit to Dave and the other Greens for trying to keep it on the agenda though. It would be so much worse if everyone was ignoring it.
           

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1

            Peak energy and peak debt is going to cause ongoing economic decline (and hence decline in energy use and GHG emissions). The question given that context:

            How do we best prepare for and manage that decline so that our societal fabric, community lives, future of our families are made as best and as positive as possible.

            Climate change activists never ever look at these questions; it is beyond the scope of their perspective therefore its a big problem that they cannot see the big problem.

  14. bad12 16

    Robbing the houses of the poor to give houses to the poor,

    Maori Television’s Native Affairs tonight highlighting the divisive stealing of HousingNZ homes from the Auckland suburb of Glen Innes where the land they once occupied will be sold to the middle class voters of National to build upon while some of the houses once occupied by the poor of Auckland are to be trucked to Kaitaia to house the poor there,

    Phill Heatley, the Housing Minister in this Slippery National Government claims this as some form of victory for low income families as there will be a build of new housing stock by HousingNZ, what Phill refuses to explain tho is how is this anything but crumbs off of the table when the number of houses built by the state will be half of the number previously there…

  15. Colonial Viper 17

    Al-Qaida forces and extremist fighters support Syrian rebels, as US Senate hears testimony that aiding in “flipping Syria” will help Israel and help fight Iran

    The Great Game, still played by the Western Powers.

  16. Colonial Viper 18

    And allow me to thank Jenny for her continued and dedicated efforts to bring everyone at The Standard up to speed with the complex and multi-faceted situation in Syria.

    The fact that Saudi Arabia, a Sharia law country where womens rights are non-existent, is helping to bring about the downfall of Syria using fundamentalist fighters, Syria a secular country where women have been enjoying relatively high levels of rights over many years, seems to just breeze lightly by her.

    In fact its a classic example of “blow back” if I ever saw one. Thanks again Jenny.

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