Open Mike 06/08/2017

78 comments on “Open Mike 06/08/2017 ”

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1. Pete George 1

   6 August 2017 at 6:37 am

   I think it’s worth repeating this here, a response to marty mars:

   “contributes to a toxic environment for the left here with his incessant fault finding and attack posts against the left”

   Very funny – or do you actually believe that?

   I only occasionally post here. You and a few others frequently post here, creating a toxic environment of the left, attacking many people you judge to not be suitably left, or something.

   You (collectively) deter far more people from voting left than i ever will, because they are not the right sort of left for you, not left enough, or just that you make an ill-informed judgement.

   I first came to The Standard thinking it would be a good place to join in the rebuilding of Labour after Clark lost in 2008 and then departed Parliament. I was mistaken. This has been a toxic, small minded, dirty unwelcoming place.

   There are good people here, and interesting comments at times, but it has been dominated by persistent petty regulars who burn off anyone deemed some sort of enemy.

   It has changed, probably because more moderate centre-ish people have been driven away or can’t be bothered with the toxicity.

   What is obvious now that, while there may be a few Labour try-hards, the dirty politics here is now dominated by non-Labour supporters like marty mars, OAB, Robert Guyton, who all regularly and persistently attack anyone deemed some sort of enemy.

   It’s pathetic, and it’s counter productive. Even if there is some intent to drive off potential Labour voters that is cutting off your nose to spite your face, and certainly won’t encourage people to vote Green or Mana.

   This is a toxic environment without me, I just pop in occasionally to see if anything has changed. Obviously not.

   I’ve voted both Green and Labour, but I and I think many others who pass by here certainly wouldn’t encouraged to do so again by the bitter and twisted attack dweebs who dominate threads here.

   Ardern and Davis have given the first sign in a decade that Labour may be able to climb back into prominence again. But it looks like they will struggle to get any help here with so much toxic self destruction further to the left going on.

   If Labour supporters (and anyone genuinely wanting a change of government) want to do something positive to rebuild the party they should stand up more to the crap perpetuated by a few spoilers here.
   • Robert Guyton 1.1

     6 August 2017 at 6:48 am

     No. It wasn’t.
   • tc 1.2

     6 August 2017 at 6:53 am

     Yes dear
   • marty mars 1.3

     6 August 2017 at 7:45 am

     thanks pete this is my response on the other thread

     “This has been a toxic, small minded, dirty unwelcoming place.”

     Is someone forcing your arm up your back and making you post anti left attack comments? No I didn’t think so – that’s all your own work peter – you’ve always been a moaner-fabricator since you started posting way back when you were a United Candidate for parliament. You haven’t changed one bit.
     • RedLogix 1.3.1

       6 August 2017 at 8:08 am

       The Standard is a broad left wing space; it’s only to be expected that right wingers will face a headwind. We aren’t here to make it easy for their argument, nor let them derail what is important to us. And if they argue in bad faith or blatantly troll they routinely get hammered by moderation.

       But without asking anyone to agree with PG’s style, his sometimes irritating passive-aggressiveness, or any of his political ideas … on this he has a point. There is really no justification for the snide mockery, reflexive hostility and mobbing that is too often dumped on anyone deemed ‘outsider’.

       Only a fool counsels perfection; we’ll all fall short of ideal from time to time. But it’s plain that a handful of individuals are taking pleasure in baiting and abusing ‘non-lefties’, and getting away with it because their politics are so pure.

       Well that just doesn’t stack up. You cannot demand justice, equity and fairness from others, while dishing out abuse yourself.
       • marty mars 1.3.1.1

         6 August 2017 at 8:15 am

         “But it’s plain that a handful of individuals are taking pleasure in baiting and abusing outsiders and getting away with it because their politics are so pure.”

         I call rubbish on that. You have always pushed that line even after it has been disproved time and time again. sad.
         • RedLogix 1.3.1.1.1

           6 August 2017 at 8:31 am

           Yes dear.

           https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06082017/#comment-1363452
           • marty mars 1.3.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2017 at 8:34 am

             means nothing – your point is?
       • Robert Guyton 1.3.1.2

         6 August 2017 at 8:40 am

         “his sometimes irritating passive-aggressiveness”
         sometimes!
         SOMETIMES????
         We’re getting squabbly-as here – let’s blame Pete for that and move on to more productive pastures. Pete’s on holiday, The Greens are polling strongly, Jacinda’s leading Labour and Paula’s been assigned as advance guard for the attack – things are looking relentlessly positive! All we need now is for Todd Barclay to call on Metiria to resign.
         • RedLogix 1.3.1.2.1

           6 August 2017 at 8:43 am

           No. It wasn’t.
   • weka 1.4

     6 August 2017 at 8:06 am

     Pete gearing up his arch-trollery for the election I see. What a surprise.
     • Pete George 1.4.1

       6 August 2017 at 8:21 am

       From your post:

       The rules are:

       – To comment you have to be left wing.

       – Bear in mind the part of the Policy about not using language or tone that excludes others.

       Your post, your rules obviously, but that seems a bit contradictory. As does your comment here.

       [1 week ban. I don’t care how carefully you couch your trolling, you don’t get to criticise this author – weka]
       • Foreign waka 1.4.1.1

         6 August 2017 at 9:46 am

         Weka – Please be kind, the upcoming election needs a climate of understanding, building bridges and above all – finding common ground. We all have different views on different things. What is it that a social democrat would support in every situation?
         • weka 1.4.1.1.1

           6 August 2017 at 11:38 am

           Pete gets moderated for his behaviour not his views, as beigely abhorrent as they are. There’s lots of people I disagree with here who have different views, but 95% of the comments don’t even come close to touching my moderator radar.

           Like all skilled trolls, Pete mixes together his trolling with his other commentary to make it seem more reasonable. I don’t have too much of a problem with people learning how to skate just under the moderation radar if they can be a net benefit to the site, but the load on moderators is getting higher the closer we get to the election (plus the post-election period is likely to be intense). I’d rather be writing posts or having fun, so there’s less leeway atm. If it makes my job easier to take out a known troll whose been banned multiple times before, and do that early in the day before he gets going, then that’s what I will do.

           Besides, I was kind, he only got banned for a week (I was going to make it two then I halved it) 🙂
           • Robert Guyton 1.4.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2017 at 11:54 am

             I thought your giving ol’ Pet the heave-ho was elegant, weka. I cried no tears at all.
           • Foreign waka 1.4.1.1.1.2

             6 August 2017 at 6:42 pm

             Hi Weka, fair enough, I did not question your judgement just wondered about why. As an sometimes visitor to this site I saw nothing offensive per se’ but I would certainly ask why Pete would think that people on this site will shoot down others. Perhaps I am not seeing what others see.
             Thank you for your response.
             • KJT …

               6 August 2017 at 8:12 pm

               PG has a long history of boring the crap out of us with his presence of being even handed. When he is an authoritarian follower of the establishment.
               • Robert Guyton …

                 6 August 2017 at 8:22 pm

                 You know when the thugs render their victim unconscious with a chloroform-soaked rag? Pete.
                 (And I reckon you meant “pretense”, KJT 🙂
                 • KJT …

                   6 August 2017 at 9:15 pm

                   Yes
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     6 August 2017 at 9:28 pm

                     In fairness to everyone concerned, I have to ask: is one week long enough? Seriously, that’s only 7 days.
                     🙂
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     6 August 2017 at 9:39 pm

                     That said, look what Pete said in the comments section of his own blog in response to disbelief at Jacinda’s popularity…(go figure!)

                     ““Keep ignoring a phenomenon that is unfolding at your (or National’s) peril.
                     Unless the current momentum is changed the it looks likely the polling question will be how far into the 30s Labour rise to, and whether National can stay out of the 30s.”

                     “I’m not ‘buying into the hype’, I’m observing it. I haven’t seen anything like this sort of transformation before, nor this sort of excitement for a campaign before.
                     It’s happening. Don’t blame me for reporting it.”

                     “You’re failing to see the facts.
                     There is a very different vibe coming from the Labour and National camps. You try to talk it away as much as you like but it won’t make it disappear.
                     National have a major challenge to compete, and they are showing no sign of stepping up yet.
                     There’s seven weeks to go and things could still change dramatically again, but Labour have little to lose and a lot to gain, if National keep doing little they could lose.”

                     “Labour appear to have been forced into a very risky leader change but so far it has worked far better than anyone could have predicted.
                     But how things works is well known by campaign teams. If National don’t find a way of combating Labour’s momentum they could be in trouble.”
       • garibaldi 1.4.1.2

         6 August 2017 at 9:47 am

         Thanks weka. I always scroll down past his comments. He is so fucking boring.
         • gsays 1.4.1.2.1

           6 August 2017 at 8:55 pm

           Well said, very concise.
     • miravox 1.4.2

       6 August 2017 at 11:11 am

       arch-trollery.

       Yup. That seems to be the most likely reason for pete doubling-down on a response to a statement that marty mars had already apologised for in the original comment.
2. Pete George 2

   6 August 2017 at 7:04 am

   A welcome switch to more positive politics:

   ”Yes, we are an optimistic nation, but when you work at the coalface of politics and in the communities, as we do, we know and we see every single day that as a country we can do better than this.

   ”We can be better than this.”

   ”Relentless positivity will be amongst it and also a really clear vision for New Zealand.”

   ”I have a very clear view that we can be a much better country than this.”

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/336283/ardern-s-verbal-style-huge-diverse-and-positive

   Not just Labour, we will all benefit by a more positive approach to politics. I hope some of Ardern’s positivity rubs off on others.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   6 August 2017 at 7:08 am

   RadioLive, in two minutes time, talking (positively) about what to plant in the almost-Spring vegetable garden.
   • weka 3.1

     6 August 2017 at 8:46 am

     What are you planting down south Robert?
     • Robert Guyton 3.1.1

       6 August 2017 at 9:05 am

       Apple trees right now, but in the annual vegetables gardens; garlic and shallots are up and growing, peas and broad beans going in to trays in the glasshouse, bok choy and kale as seedlings into the open garden and pumpkins and corn into pottles for the warm window-sills inside of the house. It has been frrrrosty down here all week, though the coming 5 days are to be very warm by comparison, so those seeds will take off. Most of my garden work around now is propagating: cuttings and division of rhizomes and roots; horseradish, mints, elecampane, cardoon etc. I’m still cracking, soaking and planting-out hazelnuts, peach stones and almonds, en mass, preparing for the expansion of my orchard out into the whole wide world 🙂
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         6 August 2017 at 11:41 am

         Do you wait for last frost to plant out the broad beans, or just more warm days?
         • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1

           6 August 2017 at 11:45 am

           I’ve had some in for a while now; they don’t care about frosts. Don’t leave them too late.
4. Robert Guyton 4

   6 August 2017 at 8:27 am

   I’ve posted two pretty photos on my blog; one scene from last evening and one from this morning. Someone might enjoy seeing them.

   https://robertguyton.blogspot.co.nz/2017/08/evening-and-morning.html
   • mary_a 4.1

     6 August 2017 at 11:09 am

     Nice pics Robert (4). Thanks for sharing. Like to see more of the same posted.

     Now I am going to pick your brains. In October we are moving south to central Otago (Cromwell to be exact) from Auckland and want to know what and what does not grow re vegetables. We have always had a productive vegetable garden in Auckland and would like to continue the same if we can at our southern home. Always had silverbeet, broccoli, pumpkins, green beans, bok choy, tomatoes as well as a varied herb garden. Have had conflicting opinions, telling us we can grow this, but can’t grow that, then told something else!

     I’d appreciate what we are able to grow in the southern climate please if you don’t mind.
     Cheers
     Mary
     • weka 4.1.1

       6 August 2017 at 11:49 am

       The thing about Central is the late and early frosts. Put in a glasshouse and learn your microclimates. Lots of old school gardeners in that area who will give you very localised gardening advice. I have friends in various parts of Central who grow all the things you name, but opinions will vary on how long you can extend the growing season.

       Better yet, plant a food forest 😀
     • Robert Guyton 4.1.2

       6 August 2017 at 11:52 am

       Hi Mary
       The best investment you could make would be to buy a Star Garden Guide; they’ve just been reprinted from the original which was composed as a serial for the Star Newspaper back in the day by a gardener who knew his onions. It isn’t “organics-only” as I would wish, but very sound in its recommendations for what and when to plant. As well, you should/could subscribe to the NZ Gardener magazine and read their regular column from their man in Southland 🙂 Great pics accompanying that column as well. Also, there’s Get Growing, on-line, written, every third week, by that same gardener. In a nutshell, though, you’ll be able to grow everything you listed. Lots of sunshine in Cromwell. The soil will be different from what you’re accustomed to though.
       • mary_a 4.1.2.1

         6 August 2017 at 3:54 pm

         Weka (4.1.1) & Robert Guyton (4.1.2) … hey thanks for the useful info. Much appreciated.

         It’s going to be a whole new ball game for us. However I look forward to some productive gardening in central Otago in the very near future 🙂
5. AsleepWhileWalking 5

   6 August 2017 at 8:49 am

   Listened to Chris Martenson’s Peak Prosperity weekly news update.
   Summary: talking about the loss of biodiversity in Maine or as Chris puts it watching life ebb away; also comments on the ongoing rallies in the stock market.
6. lprent 6

   6 August 2017 at 8:52 am

   Oh it is election season. Waking up on a sunday morning to the sound of case fans winding up as the load goes on the server..

   Well you can see the last 30 days yourself.

   

   Updated:
   Looks like the same at The Daily Blog as well at about half magnitude.

   
   • weka 6.1

     6 August 2017 at 9:11 am

     I notice it in the number of comments already on TS by the time I get up in the morning. Or the numbers commenting on Daily Review in the evenings.
     • lprent 6.1.1

       6 August 2017 at 9:23 am

       Oh yeah. During election season, we get more comments. The average comment size get larger as well. While there are a lot of short comments especially when the trolls reappear, everyone else seems to start writing small essays as a counterpoint.
   • lprent 6.2

     6 August 2017 at 9:20 am

     Bit depressing seeing those outages due to cutouts in the CPUs protecting themselves from overheating kicking in on the early part of the month. 4th-12th on this chart. Especially on midweek on 9th when it was down for quite a few hours.

     I had to do some shuffling of the machines and refitting of fans on the Saturday 12th. And again last weekend. It had a brief midday outage during the spike, and I had to tweak the fancontrol parameters again.

     I really need to write a proper hysteresis routine for them so I can get a better balance between the noise of the fans in my quiet apartment (especially at night) and the need to stop the CPUs cutting off the system to protect themselves.
   • weka 6.3

     6 August 2017 at 9:29 am

     What was the 40K spike about?
     • lprent 6.3.1

       6 August 2017 at 10:45 am

       That was the Labour leader roll(over) of Little and its subsequent election of Jacinda at the start of the week.

       Ah you’re becoming a hardened election season moderator. On the weekend it is very hard to remember the start of the week.

       https://thestandard.org.nz/page/2/ look down until you see “Labour leadership meeting”.

       The 33k the day before was started with your “This is no ordinary election (f*ck the polls)” about the poll with the greens rise and Metiria’s aftershocks.

       You should be able to see that google analytics on the dashboard – look under screen options if you can’t
7. weka 7

   6 August 2017 at 9:28 am

   More on RNZ using Hooton as a commenter, and Hooton’s lie about Helen Clark.

   https://twitter.com/Zagzigger2/status/893710919317954560
   • Carolyn_nth 7.1

     6 August 2017 at 9:39 am

     And Mediawatch – having a go at our short supply of long term professional pundits, from Trotter to Hooton – but special scathing mentions of Mike Hosking’s assembly line of reckons.
     • mpledger 7.1.1

       6 August 2017 at 10:43 am

       More diversity indeed … when all of them are white, middle-class, males.
     • weka 7.1.2

       6 August 2017 at 11:53 am

       That’s a hard listen for all the Hosking audio 😉
8. Tom Pained 8

   6 August 2017 at 10:07 am

   Sir John Key: “Helen abolished knighthoods, I reinstalled them”.
   ABC interview 30th July 2017
   http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/sundayextra/2017-07-30/8749862?utm_source=sfmc
9. Incognito 9

   6 August 2017 at 10:55 am

   I’d like to comment in the post Lefties on The Standard but I’m unsure about the criteria for participation.

   The manoeuvring (incl. MOU) and rhetoric in the next 7 weeks will be aimed at changing the government in the first instance. Paradoxically, in my view, this muddies the more important overarching debate which is how we should move forward in this country and our society. This debate needs to be inclusive and balanced as possible and not hijacked & polarised as is usually the case.
   • weka 9.1

     6 August 2017 at 11:54 am

     What was unclear about the criteria?

     (you’re LW as far as I can tell, so go for it).
     • Incognito 9.1.1

       6 August 2017 at 12:27 pm

       Hi weka,

       I tend to overthink things – an understatement.

       There are two questions related to the criteria as set out:

       1) Can I personally adhere to and meet these? In my own eyes rather than in your eyes, for example, if that makes any sense? I don’t think we need to dwell on this here as it is obviously personal.
       2) I am not so comfortable, for want of a better word, with the label “left wing” and its associated narrative of (political) dualism. Hence my comment re. being inclusive but it goes deeper than that.

       I realise it is an experiment here on TS and I think it is great to try new ways to move things forward. I am also hanging out for real constructive debate; it is rare, fragile, and too easily killed off – a bit like the flightless bird that is our national symbol. Maybe you’re right that it needs to start off in an enclosed and well-protected environment but how & when do we proceed with the ‘release into the wild’? BTW, I believe there have been (other) calls for a left wing ‘think tank’.

       Lastly, and perhaps paradoxically, I take your comment as a compliment 🙂
       • weka 9.1.1.1

         6 August 2017 at 12:34 pm

         Would progressive rather than, or in addition to, left wing have made a difference?
         • Incognito 9.1.1.1.1

           6 August 2017 at 10:30 pm

           No, not really, sorry.

           44 south also mentioned that labels do not represent people very well https://thestandard.org.nz/lefties-on-the-standard/#comment-1363547 and I relate to this in ways that confuse me no end – does the label conform to the person or the other way round or both (or neither)?

           Lately, I’ve been reading the comments by Carolyn_nth with great interest, e.g. this one referring to Sue Bradford https://thestandard.org.nz/messages-for-the-left/#comment-1363782

           The thing is we’re aiming for a better future although it remains poorly described. In my view, it will have to be radically different from status quo and thus it cannot be adequately described or defined (‘captured’) with current terminology and it most certainly cannot and won’t fit within the current dominant narratives – the future is open-ended and the associated language and meaning has yet to be developed or evolve.

           A longwinded explanation which in no way detracts from your stellar efforts here on TS – I really mean this.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2017 at 11:36 pm

             Does that mean there is no way for you to take part in the conversation in the other thread? Seems odd to let semantics deter good discussion. ‘Left wing’ is a just a shorthand to make my job as moderator easier.
       • gonzo 9.1.1.2

         6 August 2017 at 1:40 pm

         I was thinking along similar lines.
         If in doubt – try http://www.politicalcompass.org
         And yes, these one size fits all “what’s your political bent” are a bit trite – but interesting..

         For what it’s worth – I’m bang in the middle of the square of “libertarian/left”. So I suppose that does make me left? – although I have voted national in the past 🙂
         • weka 9.1.1.2.1

           6 August 2017 at 1:52 pm

           Yes, that makes you left 😉
10. joe90 10

    6 August 2017 at 11:49 am

    You too, Labour.
11. Incognito 11

    6 August 2017 at 12:08 pm

    MSM and modern technology tend to magnify & amplify all sorts of happenings, good and bad. This almost always comes at the expense of balance and context.

    Recently, we have heard a few personal revelations (‘confessions’) and seen a few actions (‘sacrifices’) by politicians. Indeed, these were showing honesty & integrity. However, MSM and others have taken them out of proportion and used them to polarise opinion – the modus operandi of some; some claimed to have seen an Angel while others saw the Devil incarnate (Fallen Angel). There has never been a more powerful narrative and human construct than Good vs. Evil.

    I think it’s quite telling that we appear to be so excited, surprised even, when moral virtues and positive values are on display. Why is this? We all value honesty & integrity and we all make personal sacrifices on a daily basis without giving it much thought, it seems.

    I think it is time to recalibrate our expectations and corresponding judgements (!) of ourselves as well as of others and reaffirm the values we stand for. With the influence of (organised) religion waning in our society we should not lose sight of the whole of the value system that underpinned it – we cannot deny who we are. Similarly, the role of (moral) authority is disappearing and we now need to look at and in ourselves for guidance and direction.
    • Ant 11.1

      6 August 2017 at 4:41 pm

      Agreed. And with love getting a fresh airing by principals as schools grapple with student depression and suicide we are reminded that there are some simple qualities which if neglected leave us poorer regardless of external stimuli. Wordsworth knew about them when he wrote …..

      Thanks to the human heart by which we live,
      Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,
      To me the meanest flower that blows can give
      Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.
      • Incognito 11.1.1

        6 August 2017 at 10:56 pm

        Most interesting and very apt, thank you.

        My meandering monkey mind let me to search on Wordsworth & Buddhism and that unearthed a ‘treasure trove’.

        I guess this might feel far-removed from current electioneering and reading of political ‘tea leaves’.

        Increases in suicide and depression are clear signs that we’re heading down the wrong path and it is really good to hear that people are aware of this and doing something about it.
12. rhinocrates 12

    6 August 2017 at 12:35 pm

    Sunday reading from The Grauniad:

    Globalisation: the rise and fall of an idea that swept the world
    It’s not just a populist backlash – many economists who once swore by free trade have changed their minds, too. How had they got it so wrong? By Nikil Saval

    Text version:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/14/globalisation-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-idea-that-swept-the-world

    Podcast version:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2017/jul/31/globalisation-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-idea-that-swept-the-world-podcast

    A bit of history of Populism on Melvyn Bragg’s excellent In Our Time

    Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss what, in C19th America’s Gilded Age, was one of the most significant protest movements since the Civil War with repercussions well into C20th. Farmers in the South and Midwest felt ignored by the urban and industrial elites who were thriving as the farmers suffered droughts and low prices. The farmers were politically and physically isolated. As one man wrote on his abandoned farm, ‘two hundred and fifty miles to the nearest post office, one hundred miles to wood, twenty miles to water, six inches to Hell’. They formed the Populist or People’s Party to fight their cause, put up candidates for President, won several states and influenced policies. In the South, though, their appeal to black farmers stimulated their political rivals to suppress the black vote for decades and set black and poor white farmers against each other, tightening segregation. Aspects of the Populists ideas re-emerged effectively in Roosevelt’s New Deal, even if they are mainly remembered now, if at all, thanks to allegorical references in The Wizard of Oz.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tbf4g
13. Macro 13

    6 August 2017 at 1:32 pm

    Least we forget:
    Today is Hiroshima Day
    Spare a thought for the 140,000 innocent people who were killed in a moment of madness.
    And wonder at the continued madness of the threat of it happening again.
    • joe90 13.1

      6 August 2017 at 1:46 pm

      A peppercorn.

      .
      In an interview on NPR’s Fresh Air, author Eric Schlosser explains just how inefficient this early nuclear bomb was (skip to 11:13 in the recording).

      In the case of Hiroshima, the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was an incredibly crude and inefficient weapon. When it exploded, about 99 per cent of the uranium that was supposed to undergo this chain reaction, didn’t. It just blew apart in the air, and a very small percentage, maybe two per cent of the fissile material, actually detonated. And most of it just became other radioactive elements. [. . .] Now to imagine how small an amount that is, seven-tenths of a gram of uranium is about the size of a peppercorn. Seven-tenths of a gram weighs less than a dollar bill. So even though this weapon was unbelievably inefficient, and almost 99 per cent of the uranium had nothing to do with the destruction of Hiroshima, it was a catastrophic explosion.

      https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/09/less-than-two-percent-of-the-hiroshima-bombs-uranium-actually-detonated/
14. joe90 14

    6 August 2017 at 1:43 pm

    72 years ago.
15. Philip Ferguson 15

    6 August 2017 at 3:22 pm

    Today marks the anniversary of the first use of nuclear weapons – the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima by the United States, the only country in the world to ever use nuclear weapons (and on civilian targets). It’s also no coincidence that the atomic bomb was used on Japan and not Germany:

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/the-pacific-war-racism-and-hiroshima/
    • alwyn 15.1

      6 August 2017 at 5:52 pm

      “It’s also no coincidence that the atomic bomb was used on Japan and not Germany”
      It is probably also not a coincidence that the first atom bomb was not completed until AFTER the German state had been defeated and they had surrendered.
      Just how could they have dropped a bomb that they didn’t actually have on Germany?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_%28nuclear_test%29
      • In Vino 15.1.1

        6 August 2017 at 8:04 pm

        Yes, Germany surrendered in May, and the first bomb was exploded in the Nevada desert in July… Bit of a problem there, PF
16. Ad 16

    6 August 2017 at 3:34 pm

    Unintended consequences of highly liberal marijuana laws; Marijuana company buys an entire Californian town. I’m sure it happens in Mexico regularly enough, but I’m not sure even Rothmans got that far with taking an entire town.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marijuana-company-buys-nipton-california_us_5985e9bce4b041356ec00bbd?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    American Green will spend some $2.5 million in the next 18 months to rebuild Nipton into a stoner’s paradise, according to the company’s release. It plans to expand on the town’s small solar farm and aims to add “CBD and mineral baths, cannabis-product retail outposts, artists-in-residence programs, culinary events, and Bed-and-Breakfast lodging to complete the charming small town experience.”

    Clearly the price was not too high.
    • McFlock 16.1

      6 August 2017 at 10:58 pm

      Dunno if that’s an unintended consequence, really. It’s hardly unheard of in the US for a company to own a town – Disney has at least one community, and coal and steel companies occasionally owned the towns their workers lived in. Tennessee Ernie Ford sung about it.
17. Psych nurse 17

    6 August 2017 at 3:57 pm

    Did my ears deceive me, did Jessica Mutch on todays Q and A really say in response to kelvin Davis and his criticism of national party hacks “On behalf of the National Party thats a bit unfair” her impartiality is transparent.
    • Carolyn_nth 17.1

      6 August 2017 at 6:02 pm

      The panel was also slanted to the right, and pretty anti-Green Party generally.

      Mike Williams said he was opposed to Turei’s old electorate enrollment thing because too many people had been doing that to gain extra votes in marginal electorates – but that’s totally not what Turei did.
18. weka 18

    6 August 2017 at 5:37 pm

    Live Green Party environment Q & A between James Shaw and Jeanette Fitzimmons on FB 6.30pm tonight.

    https://www.facebook.com/nzgreenparty/posts/10154615034241372:0
    • Carolyn_nth 18.1

      6 August 2017 at 6:03 pm

      Great to see Fitzsimons stepping up at a crucial point. I’ve often seen her on demonstrations in Auckland in recent times – still an activist. She mentored Turei initially, as I recall, when Turei became an MP.
19. eco Maori/kiwi 19

    6 August 2017 at 7:47 pm

    did u no that if you are classed as Maori and have a criminal record you are not human because that is the way im being treated i tried dairyfarming for 13 years 11 years ago i was assitant manager on a 5000 cow farm we had 18 workers whom have all been displaced by imagrints i managed a farm for one farmer he had 7 workers on 4 farms they have all been repalaced by imagrints these farmers have no compasion for there workers as when you dairyfarm it is more than just a job if they fire you once calfing is over you have to move house iv had the cops called on me twice the first one lied and said i assalted them i went to court the judge was trying to encrouge me to plead gilty even my lawyer was not much help he did not encrouge me to plead not gilty cant have a europeen farmer to look like a lier i pleaeded not gilty i got off next time i was managing the worest farm in nz i was desperate for a job and house as my last boss hired imergrints i took the job the effluent system was a joke the cows were conditishon score av of 2 no shit she had taranaki gates the water was fucked i worked from dawn till dusk for 3 months to fix every thing up ie power the gates as a hungry cows were running the farm free range this farm is right next to the waikato river with a effluent system that was a joke fonterra new about farm because her partner worked for them after 3 months me and my son got the grass cover up to 2500 avrege the production was up 100% no lie my wife was razing the calfs she is a perfectionist healthy well looked after calfs the owner brought some of her calfs to my wifes calf shed they had scoures made my wifes calf sick they had a diseragrement she sacked us me my wife and 2 sons were working for her i was past the ninty day trial she still sacked me my wife did not get payed one of my sons did not get payed my daugter to she owed us all about 8 k i wondered why she had no numbers on her mail box this is why because when we went to the employment courts we could not get any thing trough becaues no one could find her to serve her the documents she was trained by the cop freind that she rang to kick us out of the house lucky my wife was there he jumped out of the cop car as if he was going to asalt me he yelled that we have been fired and had to leave imediately i replied that the house was like a rental an in the contrack we had 2 weeks to move it was dusk he backed off and went away i made a complaint the officer said that wallies had been in trouble before while we were moving to my daugthers house i got a ticket on a road were userly there are no cops he was waiting in the dark i tought nothing of it at the time but now it all ads up i went to wellington to work for Downers after 3 months on a loliepop sign i failed a drug test because i had started smoking weed agian because i was depressted i went to stay with my daugther i got a job relife managing for the first 2 weeks everything was good they liked my work cell count coming down treating lame cows ect one afternoon as i was driveing to work i noticed some guy pretending to read a paper in the boss driveway with a good view of the shed the cops think everyone has no brain the next day everyone was atcaing weard in the end they looked like i was the deviel 2 days before i was offered a full time job manageing a other farm they owned but not any more i notice that i allways had someone following me the police have told lies about me to all the farmers on kokako rd about me son boss acting strange i brought a lawn run in tauranga the cops have contacted all my clints lied to them i emailed the IPCA one of my clints is a judge after three weeks i asked if he could help me he said he would the next week he asked me if i had been arested yet no i said i made a complaint to the IPCA he looked into it the IPCA took up the case but 1 week later the judge said that i was just the lawn man nothing else you and your drugs. the police have put a spin on this the judge dismessed my services 3 weeks ago for no reason the police have lied to allmy nabours my bank staff acountant ect that is why i say if you are maori you have no human rights
20. eco Maori/kiwi 20

    6 August 2017 at 7:52 pm

    the police are harressing me they are using bulling tackticks and have not aressted me there evdince is all lies they are not use to people with a brain
21. eco Maori/kiwi 21

    6 August 2017 at 7:56 pm

    it is all true a personal vandeter from a bad cop from Tokoroa
22. eco Maori/kiwi 22

    6 August 2017 at 8:10 pm

    you no what they say a cop has impunity to do anything and the justice system is more worried about the polices image can not have the public no some cops are bad he trained the farm owner to avoied the employment law i tried to get a lawyer to sue for my human rights 4 times first interview they are going to help next they wont anser my call so i use a unlisted number and they anser and clam up
    • eco Maori/kiwi 22.1

      22 August 2017 at 6:34 pm

      The cops name was not Wallies his name is Dickson just checked email that we sent in
      a complaint and the farm is just out of Whakamaru The owner is Colleen Conolly her partner was Jamie Hovind. Never work for these muppets

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1. Lefties on The Standard « The Standard: posted on 6 August 2017 at 7:13 am

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