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Open Mike 06/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 6th, 2017 - 62 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

62 comments on “Open Mike 06/09/2017 ”

  1. eco Maori/kiwi 1

    Now the kings and there advisers in NZ are trying to figure out how this lucky uneducated half caste Maori has managed to get this huge internet attention and viewers and how did he figure out he has this attention. And they are trying to replicate
    this to try and win this election. YEA RIGHT

    For one thing I don’t Believe in LUCK I believe LUCK was invented by some corrupt person people to explain why they had more assets/food to some naive people when in reality the corrupt person was robbing the naive people BLIND.
    So I’m not lucky.
    I believe in FATE as it was fate that these assholes have been hounding me for so long it was fate that I ended in this place and time it is fate because of these assholes that I scoured the internet for corruptions and posted this information on this website It was fate that I found this website it is fate that Iprent made this wonderful website. It is fate that I took my granddaughter to the doctors and had a conversation with that Kenyan
    Doctor and gave him my pseudo name and this website. It was fate that joe90 posted those links on Kenya on this web site so every one could see what I posted was true. So my views on the reality’s of our WORLD are real and original . So I thank all the good people on this site and around the WORLD for there contribution to our fight for a safe fair bright future for every thing in our WORLD

    • eco Maori/kiwi 1.1

      Well I will call it steve looks like what was thrown at him stop lying steve.
      That’s the way Hillary and Jack put him in line the neo liberal cheat joyce is

  2. Herodotus 2

    We were told by our PM that 60% of tenants get support from the Accomodation Supplement, so I infer that 60% of landlords have their “investment” incomes toped up by the government. Think of that next time Andrew King from the Property Investors Assoc espouses why any change in a govt policy and we get his standard scaremongering of increase in rents. And if rents should rise does that not mean that the govt will be paying these increases and not the tenant ?
    In a healthy growing economy should not wage increases reduced the need for Accomodation Supplements NOT for Nat to increase this ?
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/95651463/insulation-standards-fewer-capital-gains-may-combine-to-hit-tenants-in-the-pocket
    https://www.landlords.co.nz/article/6245/nzpif-opposes-wellington-rental-wof
    https://www.odt.co.nz/business/labour-housing-policy-flawed-federation-says

  3. Sanctuary 3

    JDS watch #1, first in what will be a long series:

    – Farrar is now comparing Jacinda to Trump.

  4. millsy 4

    If Chinese (or any other ‘ese’) can come in and run our dairy farms better than New Zealanders (ie without paying their workers peanuts or poisoning town water supplies) then perhaps they should be allowed to.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.1

      I don’t think NZers want to see cows in crates, not being allowed to walk around a fucking paddock. That was intended by at least one Chinese group.

      Better is such a subjective term.

      • Bill 4.1.1

        Such ‘operations’ already exist in NZ. My understanding is it’s in order to produce ‘marbled’ beef.

        • popexplosion 4.1.1.1

          It looks like free trade means best quality is exported and we get the old fish fried with chip plus a half eaten one coz that’s the level of consumer quality. All the best, fish, meat, milk, fruit, etc goes off shore, and then some, average q uaility, leaving the worst still sellable at world prices by under paid staff who half eat a chip in order to get a feed yet still throw it in with the purchase. Key came into office, opened the doors to dotcomers, English learning students, lowers food quality, mine inspection, diary conversions, there is not one aspect of Keys leadership that has not eroded life in nz… …well okay broadband but that was already… …insulation… ..that was a greens overflow policy…. but the bulk of living standards have fallen and they raised GST too.

          • Ad 4.1.1.1.1

            FarrowFresh and Moore Wilson’s still have the good stuff.

            • Once was Tim 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Are you sure? Lately I’ve been seriously wondering about who and what you stand for, and who has been tickling your man-fanny. Lately, It appears there’s been a serious lean to the “right”, where your balls are tickled just enough to question your supposedly left leaning values, and your foreskin is in competition with that pompous git that should have an ‘H’ branded on his forehead. Maybe you’ll get what you wish for, but the downside is it’ll come with an ‘H’s proclamation on who it is that should be euthanased.

              • Ad

                I’m sure.

                Since you’re not used to dealing with complex positioning, let me be clear that im not interested in your online abuse.

                Do not ever respond to me again.

      • Psych nurse 4.1.2

        Actually life for a cow in an open paddock system is not a bed of roses. no shelter, cold wet ground, rain, snow frosts.Long walks on rough gravelled tracks on sore feet because of standing in wet ground, heavy udders swinging, frequently trod on causing horrendous often life treatening injuries. Trying to maintain body weight while producing milk on a grass diet with accompanying explosive diarrhoea.
        Dairy cows do better in an enclosed housing system, they adapt well, the revulsion comes from urbanised New Zealanders with a romantic view of how an animal should live.Housing animals makes it easier to control their diet and effulent,no manure trampled into the ground, no leaching of nitrates, composted manure and bedding returned to the soil at a time when heavy rain will not leach it into aquifers or water ways.Potentially a win win situation for cow and the environment.

        • Bill 4.1.2.1

          Absolutely agree that paddocks are cruel environments for animals that naturally live in wooded/forested environments. But then, so is an “enclosed housing system”.

          Actually, I doubt if there’s a way to farm animals that doesn’t involve a measure of cruelty. But y’know, we could be much less cruel and far more thoughtful. (But then, why have trees taking up the ground space of potential economic units, hm? 👿 )

    • weka 4.2

      Not sure why you think rich people who aren’t Kiwis would be any less greedy than NZers. The responsibility for the wellbeing of NZers and the land here is the governments. It’s not rocket science. Put in good environmental protections and resources into R and D for regenag. Put in good employment law that protects workers rights, and resources that support R and D for ethical business.

      The biggest hurdle there, apart from values, is the business models based on perpetual growth. We’re at the limits of growth now, so those models have to exploit people and the earth, because that’s the only way they can now keep growing. Instead we need steady state business models. They exist, which begs the question of why we’re not using them. As far as I can tell that’s down to ignorance, greed, and the need to create. Only the last one is an asset and it could be redirected.

      • tc 4.2.1

        Exactly its ecomonics 101 and the law of diminishing returns combined with greed where a ‘reasonable rate of return’ is ditched for ever increasing profits.

        Its cause and effect, newtons third law, with the environment, workers, quality etc amongst those who bear the effect ever increasing profits cause.

        Eventually capitalism breaks down as the resources are finite.

    • Gabby 4.3

      And if they feel culturally safer employing compatriots and applying the employment practices and rules they’re familiar with, then why not.

      • Bill 4.3.1

        Workers died to win whatever rights we have.

        That’s why “the practices and rules they’re familiar with” can go take a hike if those practices and rules are inferior to what workers have fought for (at least, those that remain after 30 years of Liberal assault).

    • They can’t. We really do seem to be the best at farming. Which is probably why China allows Fonterra to have farms in China.

  5. eco Maori/kiwi 5

    Yes Obama is calling out that neo liberal dick head that is why Obama is on my list of people I admire
    and aspire to.

  6. Once was Tim 6

    Please! Granny Herald. I couldn’t give a fuck about whether Tony Street has a “She-Mullet”, or whether Mike fucks chickens.
    If either were to stand for election as our political representatives, I might take a little more notice. Members of a 4th Estate they ain’t. Members of the Legends-in-their-own-Minds Club they are.
    Probably the best thing they could do IS ekshully to stand for office. As for those that profess their membership to a MSM 4th Estate, I understand your fear. Don’t try and blame others however for your fuckup – the spin won’t count no matter how many lattes, G&Ts you’ll go without and missed mortgage payments with your wifeys still at home.
    Christ! – How did it come to this I sometimes ask. All I can come up with is greed (and in the case of some of them – flatulence)

  7. Macro 7

    One wonders how many Super Storms the Gulf states will have to endure before their voters will wake up to the realisation that Global Warming is real and coming to get them. These voters consistently vote for representatives who are paid toadies of the Fossil Fuel cartel. I have little sympathy for them – the science has been clear for years – but either through greed and self interest, or simply wilful ignorance, they have ignored the early warnings of Katrina, and Sandy, and daily flooding in downtown Miami, and continually voted into office, Climate Change denialists, who have obfuscated and delayed for decades, not only US action on reducing GHG emissions, but also Global action. Now they have the ultimate idiot in charge – one wishes them everything they have coming to them.

    • Andre 7.1

      Well, fossil fuel extraction is quite a large part of Gulf state economies. So I expect wilful ignorance to continue for quite a while yet, since so many paychecks depend on it. Probably up until the point renewables get so cheap there’s no more point in extracting dino-juice from places like offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.

      • Macro 7.1.1

        Yep I understand that – however just because they want a job doesn’t give them the right to fuck the whole world – because that is what they have done for the past 20+ years.
        The US has never been able to go to a Climate Conference in good faith, because the Senate Reps dominated by McConnell et al (himself heavily funded around $1.9m US by the Fossil Fuel industry) would simply vote down any proposal to which the US agreed.

    • joe90 7.2

      Off the chart.

      Wow. Hurricane #Irma is now expected to *exceed* the theoretical maximum intensity for a storm in its environment. Redefining the rules. https://t.co/e4hPjQt159— Eric Holthaus (@EricHolthaus) September 5, 2017

      With minimum central pressure of 916 mb & winds of 185 MPH, Irma is stronger than Cat 5 San Felipe (929mb/160mph) which destroyed PR in 1928 https://t.co/WiVpeRFswI— John Morales (@JohnMoralesNBC6) September 6, 2017

      • adam 7.2.1

        There is no category 6… Seem like they might have to add one.

      • Macro 7.2.2

        Yep – and its heading straight for the Gulf States clipping Southern Florida on the way.
        FEMA is expected to run out of money this week as Hurricane Irma approaches. The Disaster Relief Fund has just $1.01 billion on hand, less than half of the $2.14 billion that was there last Thursday morning – a spend rate of $9.3 million an hour.
        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-05/fema-is-almost-out-of-money-as-hurricane-irma-threatens-florida

      • Andre 7.2.3

        “Mother of All Storms” by Barnes is starting to look a little less like fiction and a little more like science.

        • Macro 7.2.3.1

          This is what I was getting at in my original comment Andre – I wonder if some of them will finally fess up and say – “Sorry we were wrong – these storms are unprecedented, and are the result of Global Warming, and maybe it is because humans have been adding GHG at an alarming rate, and maybe the quantum physicists were right when they said GHG’s trapped black body radiation.”

          • Andre 7.2.3.1.1

            I find it touching that you seem to think southern repugs might retain even a vestigial sense of shame and responsibility.

      • joe90 7.2.4

        With a nephew living and working in the Turks and Caicos Islands, this is all getting a bit worrisome.

        • Macro 7.2.4.1

          🙁 not good – as always the Islands will wear the brunt. Cuba – the nation with one of the least Carbon footprints – is also going to experience the full force. As always those who are the least culpable are the ones who pay the price.
          Will be thinking of your nephew and others in the days ahead.

  8. adam 8

    My question is simple, is it because they are Muslims, is that we are not talking about it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/02/rohingya-fleeing-myanmar-tales-ethnic-cleansing

  9. McFlock 9

    Joyce isn’t the only one being caught lying with dodgy figures.

    Our Minister of Health, Jonathan Coleman, has been caught promising to raise elective surgery numbers to a level he claimed we achieved last year.

    “Jonathan Coleman said National would increase elective surgeries over the next four years to 200,000 a year.”
    Wow. that’s impressive. Increase from what?

    ” Last year, we planned to deliver 186,000 surgeries; we actually delivered 200,000.

    The National party: calling the status quo an increase.

    • DSpare 9.1

      McFlock
      Merely maintaining the status quo would be a decrease unless the population were also static or declining. Which isn’t the case, and furthermore; not only is the population increasing, but so is the average age (with associated health needs) along with the boomer bulge. The kind of operations being performed is also important (from your link):

      when you take out eye injections, skin lesion removals, and other surgeries that could have been performed outside of hospitals… despite a growing population, [health boards] performed fewer surgeries compared with the previous year.

      • McFlock 9.1.1

        nah, it’s an increase, Coleman said so. And Joyce spotted $11b hole in Labour’s budget, and bill’s given us 170,000 new jobs…/sarc 🙁

        • ianmac 9.1.1.1

          “and bill’s given us 170,000 new jobs…”
          They keep on saying that but to balance that we have to take off the 169,999 jobs that have disappeared or been reclassified. But it looks good; unless you are one of the ones who can’t get a job.

  10. Ad 10

    Ardern’s anger at Trump comparison will push English off TVNZ front slot, which takes English’s policy announcement to 2nd slot.

    Mean play but good game.

  11. Robert Guyton 11

    Here we go – BEWARE BEWARE Federated Farmers pulling on their Brethren cardies and leading the scaremongering this time round:

    “Let’s tax this. What are we in for, Labour?
    Source: Federated Farmers

    On the cusp of the election, voters are still in the dark about what taxes they
    might be hit with if Labour is part of the next government.
    A tax (“royalty”) on water is confirmed. But Jacinda Ardern has refused to rule out
    a capital gains tax, a land value tax, and an asset and wealth tax – other than to
    say the family home is exempt.
    “For Labour to say they’re not able to be more explicit about what they have in mind
    until they have recommendations from the yet-to-be-named members of a tax panel is
    something of a cop-out, and certainly doesn’t help voters,” Federated Farmers
    Vice-President Andrew Hoggard says.
    For farmers, their home and surrounding land also happens to be their business and
    livelihood. “Even if an exemption applied to the farmhouse, they’ll cop it from new
    taxes far more than their urban cousins.”
    The prospect of a land tax in particular is alarming to the rural sector, in that it
    would have a severe impact on land extensive businesses and others that are
    so-called ‘asset rich and income poor’.
    The last time a land tax was considered (2010), the agricultural taxable land base
    was $105 billion, meaning a 0.5% land tax would cost farmers $525 million per annum
    – a massive hit on the sector, and thus on regional economies and rural towns.
    “Farmers already pay whacking rates bills in many parts of the country, often
    disproportionate to the services they are delivered or actually use,” Mr Hoggard
    said.
    “Labour delivered more detailed information on their water tax proposal when pushed
    into it by Federated Farmers, Irrigation NZ and other groups.
    “Voters deserve more details on Labour’s preferences for other taxes before they go
    to the polls.”
    ENDS
    For more information contact:
    Andrew Hoggard, Federated Farmers of NZ Vice-President
    Phone: 027 230 7363
    Simon Edwards | Communications Advisor, Federated Farmers
    Email: sedwards@fedfarm.org.nz, Mobile: +64 (0)21 408 672

    • Ad 11.1

      Should Labour get in, they choose which lobbyists they ever see. Passes revoked, frozen out, no invites or facetime, no policy initiatives.

      Standard stuff for The Terrace.

    • I don’t seem to recall the farmers being concerned with all the detrimental effects of all reforms that benefited them. In fact, they seem to have been getting it all their own way since forever.

      I think it’s time they stopped whinging and got on with doing the right thing for society.

    • eco Maori/kiwi 11.3

      We all no that bills brother was head of that outfit a couple of years ago .
      So the English strings are still on the puppets that lead that outfit and what a coincidence that federated farmers got a good spokes person just before the election.
      Well I don’t believe in coincidences as there is usually something sinister that causes those coincidences .
      Now I have nothing against farmers that are compliant with our rules to protected our environment.
      Is it a coincident that Willy Leferink was on 7 sharp tonight to smooth it over for federated farmers propaganda .
      Now i will say it again Jacinda is not going to over tax any industry as thats fucken stupid and Jacinda would not be were she is if she was fucken stupid.
      So the labour party is not neo liberals so they are not going to look you people in the face and lie.
      They are going tailor there taxes so everyone is paying there fair shear so our country can function in a economically and environmentally sustainable way Cemmon.

      Hope my actions did not cause you to much trouble Iprent apologies if It did.

      • eco Maori/kiwi 11.3.1

        Fonterra will have to get more value for there products man I bet they wish they brought Nestle when they had the chance .

    • millsy 11.4

      Any effort to even put modest restrictions on farming activities that are detrimental to the environment are looked upon by FF as Stalinist agriculture collectivization, with fears of Ardern sending truckloads of armed agriculture commissars to every family farm in New Zealand to seize at gunpoint.

  12. Morrissey 12

    NewstalkZB is shallow, trivial, and nasty radio.
    But is it any worse than Jim Mora’s light chat show?

    The Panel preshow, RNZ National, Tuesday 5 September 2017
    Jim Mora, Peter Fa’afiu, Victoria Stewart, Megan Whelan
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/201857382/the-panel-pre-show-for-5-september-2017

    This drivel goes for six and a half minutes. Here’s a transcript of the first 4 minutes and 23 seconds….

    MORA: Ah, Megan Whelan, Story of the Day!
    MEGAN WHELAN: So Google has released, ahhmmm, its most searched “How To” questions globally, ahhh, which gives us an insight into the things that people struggle with day to day. So the most searched How-To question globally—does anyone want to take a guess?
    MORA: Oh look. Go on, have a go.

    Silence….

    MEGAN WHELAN: Anyone?
    PETER FA’AFIU: No you’re good.
    MORA: No, all right—
    VICTORIA STEWART: No, no.
    MORA: It is hard, it’s hard, it’s hard, actually.
    MEGAN WHELAN: I thought it would have been something like “How to cook rice”, or something like that.
    MORA: Oh yeah.
    VICTORIA STEWART: Ohh yeah.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Um, that is sort of second. “How to tie a tie”—-
    MORA: [with mock dismissiveness] No-o!
    VICTORIA STEWART: Ahhhhh…
    MEGAN WHELAN: Which I find fascinating! Because not all of the population has to do it, but apparently it’s a thing that those people who do, frequently forget.
    MORA: [affecting a tone of incredulity] “How to tie a tie” is number ONE!?!?
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How to tie a tie” is number one! It’s the most searched “How To” question in the world. Ah, “How to kiss” is in second place.
    MORA: Ahhh!
    MEGAN WHELAN: Which makes me worry a little bit about the future of humanity.
    MORA: Ha!
    VICTORIA STEWART: Ha ha!
    MEGAN WHELAN: As does number three, which is “How to get pregnant”.
    MORA: Yes!
    VICTORIA STEWART: Ooh goodness.
    PETER FA’AFIU: [snickering] Kkk-k-k-k!
    MEGAN WHELAN: Number four: “How to lose weight.”
    MORA: Yeah.
    PETER FA’AFIU: Oh yeah.
    MORA: I would’ve thought that’d be RIGHT up the top.
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How to draw”.
    MORA: “How to DRAAWW”?
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How to make money.”
    VICTORIA STEWART: Ha ha.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Ha ha. And then sort of “How to cook rice”—“how to make pancakes”.
    MORA: [very softly, in a tone of bemused wonderment] Pancakes.
    VICTORIA STEWART: “How to write a cover letter” AND “How to cook French toast.” Ahhhmmm….
    MORA: What?!?!?
    VICTORIA STEWART: Followed by “How to lose belly fat”. Ah, so, ho, we’re very worried about losing weight but also having good breakfasts!
    MORA: What a STRANGE list!
    MEGAN WHELAN: Isn’t that a strange list!
    PETER FA’AFIU: Just trying to figure out how many of those I’ve, uh, ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Okay, you can tie a tie.
    PETER FA’AFIU: Pancakes, yeah. Tie….
    MORA: Pancakes? You know how to make money?
    PETER FA’AFIU: Yeah.
    MORA: Do you know how to write a cover letter?
    PETER FA’AFIU: Yes.
    MORA: Ahh, do you know how to lose fat around your tummy?
    PETER FA’AFIU: No.
    MORA: Okay. I won’t ask you the REST!
    PETER FA’AFIU: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I know how to kiss. I know how to kiss.
    MEGAN WHELAN: So Simon Rogers, Google’s data editor, one of the things he mentioned is that these “How To” searches have increased a hundred and forty per cent—so more than doubled—since two thousand and FOUR, and MUCH of that interest is directed at how to sort of FIX things, so oftentimes it’s how to fix a lightbulb or replace your window or fix your washing-machine or even the toilet. So I had a look at Google Trends, ahhh, which is how you can search some of this stuff yourself, for New Zealand for the past twelve months—
    MORA: Aah!
    MEGAN WHELAN: So related searches, our ones, so this is not the exact data that THAT list is, the global list is, ‘cos it’s not broken down in the same way, but searching “How To” and getting related searches for that for New Zealand, we searched “How to draw”, “How to screenshot”—
    MORA: Oh yeah.
    MEGAN WHELAN: And someone has texted in to say that when THEY searched it, they got the auto complete, so often when you google something “how to” it will fill in the sentence for you? They got “How to make SLIME”, which is number THREE in New Zealand. We also searched “How to make slime without borax”, which seems a VERY specific thing—-
    PETER FA’AFIU: A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How to proNOUNCE” is number four—-
    MORA: “How to pronounce”?
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How to pronounce”. So, presumably, there is another word following that one. “How to lose weight”, “How to make money”, “How to tie a tie”, then that’s the slime without borax. How to-o-o-o-o-o, oh, er, break a —I can’t read my own HANDWRITING!—I think it was something like “break an iPhone”? Ummmmmm—-
    VICTORIA STEWART: Easily—-
    MEGAN WHELAN: Ha ha ha ha!
    VICTORIA STEWART:—is the way I think of that. Drop it!
    MEGAN WHELAN: Ha ha. And then, LASTLY, in our New Zealand related searches taught you “How to delete Instagram accounts”. I’m a little bit worried what New Zealanders have been doing on their Instagram accounts that they feel the need to delete them!
    PETER FA’AFIU: Hyunhh, hyunnhh.
    MORA: Yeah, exactly.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Yeahhhh!
    MORA: The slime thing will be children, ‘cos our twins make slime.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Yes!
    PETER FA’AFIU: Same. For me.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Has that been quite a thing in the last twelve months?
    MORA: Yeah it has recently. Yeah.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Right.
    MORA: So THAT’ll be a current thing, the slime thing. I didn’t know, they don’t know about the borax.
    MEGAN WHELAN: Yeahhh.
    MORA: So, we search for the most trivial things as well, don’t we.
    VICTORIA STEWART: Yes. I think a lot of this is about the sentence construction? So you might find that people searching for recipes aren’t searching—so for me, I wouldn’t google “How to cook pancakes”, I would google “Pancake recipe”—
    PETER FA’AFIU: Mmmm.
    VICTORIA STEWART: “EASY pancake recipes”. Ha ha!
    MEGAN WHELAN: Yeah. Or something like that. Or a specific pancake recipe, which is my favorite pancake recipe, but, errr, so, but I might search “How to tie a tie”, ‘cos that sentence makes more sense than “pancake recipe.” Yeah.
    MORA: Okay, but, there’s um, very little of, uh, “How can I be nicer?” or “What is the meaning of life?” or those [with mock sententiousness] profound questions….
    MEGAN WHELAN: “How can I be nicer?” Okaaayyy….

    At that point, I reached the point of maximum disgust, and could take no more of this drivel. The inanity, the determined triviality of this chatter, the complete and utter contempt for the listeners are bad enough, but what really angered me was that last statement by Jim Mora. His suggestion that he cares about “profound questions” is disproven by the subject matter and the tenor of the discussions on his show. And as for “How can I be nicer?”—well, let’s have a look at a few instances of how “nice” Jim Mora is….

    Open Mike 16/02/2015

    Open mike 14/06/2013

    Open mike 12/12/2014

  13. Pat 13

    Excellent piece by Gordon Campbell that neatly counters Nationals scare tactics…should be required reading before entering the polling booth

    ‘Its not a new thing. Remember when John Key used to describe Working For Families as “communism by stealth”? Now WFF is core National policy. And Kiwisaver? (Key : “It won’t work. It’s a glorified Christmas Club.”) Now, Kiwisaver too is core National policy. Remember when climate change was just a fanciful notion of those wacky, scary Greens? Now National’s deputy is proudly proclaiming National’s commitment to the Paris agreement.”

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2017/09/06/gordon-campbell-on-nationals-fake-news-onslaught/#more-4932

    • bwaghorn 13.1

      i’ve spent a bit of time thinking about the legacy the last labour party left and what the nats legacy is (thinking positive as even the nats can’t be totally useless )

      labour ; kiwisaver ,kiwibank . wwf (still would prefer proper wages) ,cullin fund,
      china fta.

      nats ; seriously i got nothing ,

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