Open mike 06/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:50 am, October 6th, 2014 - 90 comments
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90 comments on “Open mike 06/10/2014”

  1. “..The Latest Cannabis Science The Mainstream Media Doesn’t Want You to Know..

    ..Five new cannabis-centric studies that warrant major attention..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/latest-cannabis-science-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-you-know

    • Richard 1.1

      My Dr recommended cannabis when I went through a mild form of Chemo for Hep C to counteract the side effects of the medication.

      From waking up wanting to spew all day, feeling sick as a dog, no appetite. 1 joint and I was better immediately.

      Getting tired of hearing the arguments. it’s natural, it’s not man made. It has beneficial properties and for medical reasons it SHOULD be available.

      Good on my Dr for giving me the quiet wink.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

        There’s probably too much gang money flowing into the National Party via eg: Sky City for this to get much traction.

      • there is a question i wd like some journalist to ask key..

        ..that is seeing the large chunks of time he spends in hawaii..a state where cannabis has been medicalised..

        ..could he please detail for us the negative outcomes from such a policy..

        ..as observed by him while staying in his holiday home..?

        ..and if there are none..

        ..why can we not have a similar regime here..?

        ..aside from the logic-fails/costs of prohibition..

        ..it is cruel and inhumane to deny nz’ers who are suffering in many different forms..

        ..the proven salve that is cannabis..

        • Lanthanide 1.1.2.1

          🙄

          ’cause when you go on holiday, you know everything about the political framework of the place you’re visiting, and how each policy independently impacts the public?

        • David H 1.1.2.2

          Key notice anything? they just take him there, and plug him in, and give him his new instructions from Obama.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3

        it’s natural, it’s not man made.

        That’s not actually an argument. I’m all for legalisation of marijuana but can we please keep the arguments based in science rather than feel dogoodery?

        • Richard 1.1.3.1

          Oh picky picky Draco.

          But point taken. Ta.

          • weka 1.1.3.1.1

            Yes and no. It’s good to not assume natural = safe. On the other hand, there are distinct differences between using a whole plant vs using single plant constituents (synthetic or extracted). While science is crucial for understanding pharmaceutical drugs, it isn’t the be all and end all of understanding whole plants, and quite often fails (for a whole range of reasons).

        • TheContrarian 1.1.3.2

          What Draco said.

          “Because Natural” is a terrible argument. Alcohol is a natural substance too

          • weka 1.1.3.2.1

            Yes and no. It’s good to not assume natural = safe. On the other hand, there are distinct differences between using a whole plant vs using single plant constituents (synthetic or extracted). While science is crucial for understanding pharmaceutical drugs, it isn’t the be all and end all of understanding whole plants, and quite often fails (for a whole range of reasons).

            Alcohol is or isn’t a natural substance depending on what you mean by alcohol. If I leave some grapes sitting in a bucket, some alcohol will form naturally. Vodka can’t be considered a natural substance.

            • TheContrarian 1.1.3.2.1.1

              That’s like saying weed is a natural substance but it isn’t once make it into hash.

              • weka

                not really. Unless you are comparing that to grapes in a bucket being manufactured into brandy. Which wasn’t the comparison I was making. I was comparing the natural fermentation of sugars to the distillation of such. AFAIK distilled alcohol doesn’t occur in nature.

                • TheContrarian

                  “AFAIK distilled alcohol doesn’t occur in nature.”

                  neither does hash

                  • weka

                    yes it does. Hashish, the product, is just the compressed resin of part of the cannabis plant. The resin exists in the plant and it exists in the hash cake. Of course not all hash is equal (there are different ways of preparing for consumption), so some hash is going to be more natural than others. Myself, I think this is probably a fruitless line of debate, because the line between natural and manufactured is very fuzzy and broad. Some people want black and white, but it doesn’t work like that.

                    However, did you read my comment properly? I’m not sure you understand what I meant yet.

                  • joe90

                    neither does hash

                    The only thing that isn’t natural is the 155 mesh.

          • David H 1.1.3.2.2

            Yep, there is a place in the Universe, where the stars are born that has more Alcohol than the whole world could ever make.
            Number 22 is the Alcohol one
            http://list25.com/25-crazy-facts-about-the-universe/

        • Rob 1.1.3.3

          Yes, asbestos is “natural” as well. Just because materials are available in a largely unprocessed form does not mean they are without issues.

      • David H 1.1.4

        It helps me in stopping the sick feeling from all my tablets too. it also means i don’t have to take as many,

  2. Draco T Bastard 2

    Details Leak On How Secret Global Treaty Will Force Countries To Further Deregulate Financial Sector

    One of the most worrying features of the TISA proposals is the following:

    The crucial provision is Art X.4, which would apply a standstill to a country’s existing financial measures that are inconsistent with the rules. That means governments must bind their existing levels of liberalization for foreign direct investment on financial services, cross-border provision of financial services and transfers of personnel. The current rules will be the most restrictive of financial services that a government would be allowed to use. They would be encouraged to bind in new liberalization beyond their status quo.

    This is the familiar “ratchet” that we see in copyright law. Here, it means that restrictions on the financial industry can only be reduced, never increased, no matter how badly they screw up the global economy (again). Doubtless proponents of TISA will claim that signatories to the agreement will — of course — retain their sovereignty and ability to take “prudential measures” for the good of their people, just as they have said regarding corporate sovereignty in TPP and TAFTA/TTIP. But as Kelsey points, part of the leaked document shows that is simply not true:

    the article is comprised of two sentences that contradict each other. If a government takes a prudential measure that is inconsistent with the agreement, it cannot do so as a means to avoid its commitments under the agreement! So any prudential measures must be consistent with the other provisions in the agreement.

    This is the TISA that the US is negotiating with the EU but what’s the chances that the TPPA will end up with the same or similar?

    Governments are no longer working for the benefit of countries but for the benefit of corporations and by doing so are causing significant harm.

  3. mickysavage 3

    Wow I have just counted the number of posts tagged “David Cunliffe” over at Slater’s site and he has written 971 of them this year. 971 …

    That is 3.5 posts a day, every day this year …

    Unsurprisingly none of them are flattering. They are all attack posts.

    Dirty politics is alive and well. There has to be a better way.

    • Barfly 3.1

      Heh …don ‘t you mean he has put his name to 971 posts?

      • mickysavage 3.1.1

        Haha yep I meant that 971 posts tagged “David Cunliffe” have been posted on his site.

        • ianmac 3.1.1.1

          971 ! No wonder David had his work cut out. (David Farrar was of course much more discrete?) But of course MSM did not join in – much!
          So where to from here? Whoever gets voted in as Leader will face a terrible uphill battle.

        • anker 3.1.1.2

          Mickey is there anyone sympathetic to Labour in the media who would write an article on this ie. the 971 posts. It is following on from DP the book (and of course it sure is hell is DP’s), but I am serious about this. An expose of the vilification of DC.

    • David H 3.2

      Hell Micky, I applaud you in going where most of us don’t want to go. And after that marathon effort, I hope you gave your self a Gold Star (lol), and a long hot shower! 9712 that’s one hell of a stalker David has there.

    • Undecided 3.3

      Well if you go back over the last few months you’ll see Cameron Slater featuring prominantly on posts

      I’m thinking it might be time to ignore him, starve him of oxygen maybe

      • Bill 3.3.1

        If Slater was just running a blog, then sure, starve him of oxygen. But whaleoil isn’t simply some guy running a blog. It’s the conduit that the National Party and industry lobbyists use to access the greater reach offered by major newspapers and TV/radio outlets.

        Any attempt by who-ever to starve or ignore would be ….ignored. And the operation that both whaleoil and kiwiblog are a part of would continue as effectively as ever.

        I don’t know how to stop major newspapers and TV/radio outlets taking their cues from whaleoil and kiwiblog, but until they are, the NZ public will be fed a diet of shit and bile, and all the consequences of that diet will continue.

    • Hami Shearlie 3.4

      Certainly proves that the right see David Cunliffe as THE threat!!!

      • Draco T Bastard 3.4.1

        Yep. If the RWNJs in the MSM and National are singing the praises of any particular candidate then that’s proof that the Labour Party should be avoiding that person as leader and vice versa.

  4. Adrian 4

    If one looks at the special votes and makes a big presumption that people overseas etc have not been subject to the negative press and tv/radio attacks on Cunliffe and the left in general that voting patterns are what we would hope they would be.
    I have not seen an accurate breakdown ( has anyone got one?), but I understand Labour was close to 29% Green13+% and NZF 7%.
    So throwing shit works.

    • bearded git 4.1

      nats 39.9 lab 28.2 greens 15.4 on specials.

      if only the whole result had been like this…..

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      Ahhhhhh that’s a very very good observation.

    • Blue 4.3

      I was thinking the same thing. The specials show the results I expected to see on election night.

      National 39.9%
      Labour 28.2%
      Greens 15.4%
      NZ First 7.4%
      Conservatives 3%
      Internet Mana 2.5%
      Maori Party 1.6%
      Act 0.7%
      United Future 0.2%

      This seems much more sane to me than the results we actually got.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1

        Goes to show just how much the propagandising of the MSM for National actually affects the outcome of the election.

  5. Marksman33 5

    Yes I hear Donkey on RNZ this morning saying he is going to get his flunkies to have an extra look at these specials because it would appear that on election night the Natz had 49 percent and appears the sprecials only 40 percent.He is very perplexed. Just shows what a concerted effort by anti left media can do to a country.l

    • mickysavage 5.1

      I have been thinking about this. All the way through the narrative from National which the media bought into was that Labour may go further backward when past experience is that Labour actually improves. It let the “Labour is in a real mess” narrative continue even though this particular narrative was based on a mistruth.

      A further insight into how the media is working. Radio New Zealand was particularly bad in running this theme which is disturbing and disappointing for a state owned media outlet.

      • bearded git 5.1.1

        the same thing happened in 2011 when the myth of the national party’s comprehensive/easy win was born. after specials it became clear that the nats had scraped home but by then the media response was set in stone.

      • Chooky 5.1.2

        radionz Morning Report was a disgracefully biased towards John Key and Nactional and against David Cunliffe…( someone should do a media research study on this )

      • greywarbler 5.1.3

        @micky savage
        +1

      • Clemgeopin 5.1.4

        I have this intuition/theory that the Abbot raids on ‘terrorists’ in Aussie just a couple of days before our election drew a lot of votes into National and away from Labour….That and the backlash for the ‘MOTruth’ affair.

        • Chooky 5.1.4.1

          @ Clemgeopin….i agree…it was a set up! ( some predicted it beforehand) …and nothing much has come of it except a couple of young 18 year olds shot !.. when all they probably needed was a bit of POD and counselling …at very most a spell in a correction facility

          (thanks ex Jesuit Priest, Tony Abbott )

      • ropata 5.1.5

        +9^9^9^9
        NZ media’s woeful coverage of Greenwald, Snowden and Dirty Politics was generally a hopeless exercise in missing the point.

        Spinbin reckons that twitter and comments on the Herald website will supersede our self serving media. I’m not so optimistic.

        • SpinBin 5.1.5.1

          Hi Ropata
          Really great that you shared the link. Disappointed by the misnomers re “Twitter and comments on the Herald website” though. (Wondering whether you read the article or just skimmed it?)
          The comments in the article are from PublicAddress not the NZ Herald, and appear as part of an analysis of responses to Dirty Politics, MoT and the election.
          Twitter is noted for its “democratisation of voice” in the context of the bewilderment of mainstream media in discovering it is a level-playing field for public sentiment in which MSM are not insulated from open dissent in the way they often are in their IRL social classes.
          The “optimism” you refer to is outlined in the final section of the article called “A New Vanguard” which isn’t about Twitter or comments, but about the growth of paid and unpaid independent media as a whole.
          Still rapt that you shared the link though. Thanks for that!

  6. anker 6

    On a somewhat related note, I have been particularly bothered about Stuart Nash’s friendship with Hooton. Hooton from day one trashing DC. And on election night pumping for David Shearer………………….

    Is this a long term strategy for Labour orchestrated by the right? i.e. they know eventually Labour will govern again, so they accept that, but all the while maneuvering
    to make Labour as right as possible?

    • @ anker..

      “..Is this a long term strategy for Labour orchestrated by the right? i.e. they know eventually Labour will govern again, so they accept that, but all the while maneuvering
      to make Labour as right as possible?..”

      ..yes…and yes..

      ..this what this whole cunnliffe hate-campaign has been all about..

      ..and that is why this contest for the labour party leadership is so important..

      ..it will decide if labour is captured by the right..

      ..or if labour truly is a progressive political party..

      ..and of course you can often tell which camp labour mp’s are in..by who supports them..

      ..and as an example..stuart ‘thanks garth mcvicar!’ nash singing the praises of the former head of the most conservative/rightwing union..little..

      ..should set off alarm bells for anyone hoping for a progressive future for the labour party..

      ..and little is another of those union heads who said not a word/murmer in dissent at the demonising/ignoring of the poorest for those nine long years of the clark labour govt..

      .not a fucken word…

      • Chooky 6.1.1

        +100 anker and pu

        imo… the right wing see Cunliffe as a threat because he is the most able politician
        …and he is his own man and he genuinely wants to lead a Left Labour

        ..it is a worry that Michelle Boag supports Andrew Little …and Hooton is friends with Nash and Shearer…and who supports Grant Robertson from the right wing

        …in order to know who should be the Labour leader , one only needs to look at their support or not from the right wingers

        ….Cunliffe, given his hounding, is definitely the man to support!

    • AsleepWhileWalking 6.2

      I think Nash’s friendship with Hooton is a positive leadership quality which may mean that he is open to hearing all sides of an argument rather than just follow a vague party agenda.

      • ..you’re funny..!

        ..got any bridges you’d like to sell us..?

        ..but seriously..no..

        ..nash is resolute in his neo-lib/fuck-the-poor! arguments/beliefs..

        ..he only sees one side..and it is a side that marries with the beliefs/prescriptions of slater/farrar/lusk/hooton..

        ..that is the ‘side’ that nash is on..

        ..he is a manchurian candidate for the right..

        ..and one blatantly so..

      • greywarbler 6.2.2

        AWW 9.39
        Very funny. Great satire.

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.3

        I think Nash’s friendship with Hooton is a positive leadership quality which may mean that he is open to hearing all sides of an argument rather than just follow a vague party agenda.

        By why be open to hearing the wrong sides of an argument?

        • Brutus Iscariot 6.2.3.1

          ^This post illustrates the problem perfectly.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.3.1.1

            Yes, considering that Matthew Hooton’s “opinion” is for sale, and his trade in death threats, he leaves a stain on his associates.

      • Not a PS Staffer 6.2.4

        Hoot is a hired propagandist. He does not engage in argument.

        “Propaganda is information that is not impartial and used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or using loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. Propaganda can be used as a form of ideological or commercial warfare.” wiki

        If you or Nash think there is anything to be gained by “listening” to the propaganda that is disseminated by the hirelings of your enemy you are either deluding yourself or you are trying to delude us.

      • anker 6.2.5

        Asleep While Walking…………………..interesting name by the way.

        If you mean all sides of an argument, like Hooton saying that he thought there wasn’t a problem with NZ’s minimum wage because it was higher than minimum wages in many other countries. This sort of argument is BS and disgusting and not worth listening too.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.6

        The only sides of an argument that need to be heard are the facts. What comes from Hooton and the right-wing in general is spin and is completely removed reality.

    • More likely all the manoeuvring by the right is to make Labour lose the next election as much as possible and what better way than with the blundering David Shearer at the helm.

      • Olwyn 6.3.1

        Or to alter its focus as a party, so that even if it gets into office, it will share the same information networks as National, will have taken on the same framing, and will be distinguishable only by brand, thus not posing any real threat to the status quo.

        • greywarbler 6.3.1.1

          @ Olwyn 10.12
          +1 People need to be reminded that just getting Labour into power is not a reasonable goal, it is what does it do when there. Some seem to be just thinking of personality and attractiveness to the public at present.

          The leader who gets in has to have real power and commitment from the Cabinet to carry out left policies is vital. And no drongo MPs else they are out. Also they would be considering some swingeing policy on the economy and exchange settings, and inflation, and lifting punitive taxes on savings and secondary tax, ,

          On Radionz the common taters are doing a forensic examination and Matthew says we always said it would be close and if, if, and then it would have come down to a difference of 1500 votes between the two mammoths. Matthew sticking the knife in David Cunliffe, got to say something negative. Mike Williams hears that unions voted for David as most likely winner but thinks that if Little stands well they may think again.

          Mike Williams seemed to be saying we should have troops along with the others in the Middle East. Hooton about how evil the present fighters are. Has any thinker prepared a chart of regimes for evilness, and which ones are the worst?

      • @ princess..

        ..shearer was the mark one model..(the prototype..that was rushed prematurely onto the market by hoots..with the faults/hiccups in the model soon showing up..)..

        ..robertson the mark two…(the beltway-model..)

        ..and little now is the mark three (union) model..

        ..and they have some longterm/future hopes/plans for the li’l nash rambler..

        ..he who keeps going ‘beep..!..beep..!’..).

  7. Chooky 7

    Why the Greens should stay Left

    ‘Why the Green Party should not go to the centre’

    By Keith Locke / October 6, 2014

    “A truly green party can’t avoid taking stands to the left of both Labour and National when both those parties are reluctant to bring to heel the main corporate despoilers of our environment…

    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/10/06/why-the-green-party-should-not-go-to-the-centre/#sthash.pyr62Cqi.dpuf

  8. left for dead 8

    Hello out there,is it me or what,having problems posting comments.

    [lprent: Yes. It is hitting a small group like you, weka, and a few others. I’m still trying to find out the common factors – looks like IP ranges from this morning’s catch. At present it looks like one of the automatic processes thinks that your IP range is spam. I’m going to turn off all of those to see if you startgetting through.. ]

    • weka 8.1

      Ok, seems to be getting through now.

      I had my internet turned off overnight, but it’s on telecom at the mo, don’t know if they use static or dynamic IPs.

    • left for dead 8.2

      cheers Lynn.testing testing

      [lprent: Looks like removing the spammer lookup lets you through. Ummmm… 😈 ]

  9. Adrian 9

    971 attacks is the very reason why David Cunliffe is the only possible person for the job. He is case hardened and was able to keep his humour and cool while putting up with that. Somebody else and it’s just another christian thrown to the lions and who knows how they will handle it.
    Besides DC now has a secret weapon, The Wife, the great Karen, let her loose on those arseholes on the other side and I’d pay good money to see that !.

  10. yeshe 10

    NZ ON SALE AT DISCOUNT PRICES !! as dollar drops, more overseas investors want to buy us.

    Sickening, and with no evidence this govt will ever establish a register of ownership.

    Wide open plunder and pillage. Farewell, NZ as we knew it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11337467

    • Chooky 10.1

      +100 yeshe…sickening alright!

    • bearded git 10.2

      Yep I loved the way Key said the NZ$ should be USD 65 cents AFTER the election, having taken the benefit of all the cheap flatscreens, holidays etc before the election

      A bit of honesty on this for the voters might have been useful. Wait, what am I thinking……..

    • infused 10.3

      Yes, all these idiots brought down the dollar on purpose.

      Look at all the doom and gloom articles out there about the NZD.

      Don’t kid yourself, this was for one purpose.

  11. weka 11

    test

    [lprent: see here. ]

  12. bearded git 12

    Key is reported in the Herald as saying on Newstalk ZB today that “we got about 48% of the vote across the country”.

    Err no John, 47%. Special voters are people too. Is that his first lie of the 3 years?

    Help blip!

  13. left for dead 13

    Just testing

    [lprent: I see that you changed IP and got through. Good – make me think that I am on the right track. ]

  14. Marksman33 16

    On a lighter note, Alex Swney getting his comeuppense, couldn’t happen to a nicer prick.

  15. Ron 17

    UK on brink of sliding into right-wing chaos according to http://goo.gl/8m1CzV
    Could this happen to here?

  16. Clemgeopin 18

    During the recent election campaign, Key said that he feels we are on the cusp of something really big. May be this is it!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10584987/NZ-brilliantly-located-for-lunar-eclipse#comments

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