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Open mike 06/11/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 6th, 2011 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

77 comments on “Open mike 06/11/2011”

  1. Jenny 1

    Occupy Wall Street, – whichever city you are in –

    A political coup in Greece –

    An Iran war

    A corrupt and dying system falls back into the well oiled, time honoured, grooves of political repression and war.

    The Arab Spring and the West’s OWS movement have both pointed to alternative outcomes. These people’s initiatives could be Sidelined and ultimately Silenced and Defeated by the turning of world events.

    Don’t let this happen

    Support the Arab Spring and Defend the OWS in which ever city you are in.

    Because –

    They will become the centres of anti-war and anti-political repression,

    – whichever city you are in –

    • AAMC 1.1


      Good march against banks in Auck yesterday. Small, but on message and gaining numbers as it walked.

      • BLiP 1.1.1

        Fucking banks!!

        If they are not betting against us:

        . . . Citigroup had to pay a $285 million fine to settle a case in which, with one hand, Citibank sold a package of toxic mortgage-backed securities to unsuspecting customers — securities that it knew were likely to go bust — and, with the other hand, shorted the same securities — that is, bet millions of dollars that they would go bust . . .

        they are just plain ripping us off:

        . . . If banks had shifted their interest rates by lowering floating mortgage rates and raising term-deposit rates, or a combination of both, they would have increased the wealth of borrowers and savers by a combined $2.8 billion over those two years. That wealth was instead transferred to bank shareholders in Australia . . .

  2. LynW 2

    Phil Goff, you deserve credit where credit is due. Slow and steady even with the MSM so firmly biased. I despair for New Zealand’s future. I simply don’t understand how NZ has been hoodwinked into this celebrity idolisation of a man who by his very career and fortune has been involved in the financial world and systems that have been a large part of the World’s economic demise. Are we too, hollow people? I know the politicians I admire and ‘Johnny-come-lately’ ain’t one of them!’

    To quote Matt McCarten

    Goff has taken everything the media (including me) and his opponents have thrown at him. Yet he still gets up every day and gives a gutsy performance. It says a lot about his character and toughness.

    The phony outrage by some commentators criticising Goff for calling Key a liar over his flip-flop on GST exposes their political bias. Goff was right. Key did say he wouldn’t raise GST. I think Key claiming that he had to break his promise because of changed economic conditions is, well, a fib.

    Raising GST had less to do with the changed economic needs and more to do with ideology.

    Taking money off poorer New Zealanders to give a tax cut to those on higher incomes, while pretending it was fiscally neutral, wasn’t truthful.

    We now know that in addition to having prices raised by 2.5 per cent, Key borrowed $1 billion to subsidise the tax cuts.


    • uke 2.1

      Are we too, hollow people?

      I think on the whole NZers are politically naive, rather than being cold-blooded calculating “hollow men” and “hollow women” of the John Key or Don Brash type.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        most voters have lived through Ruthanasia and many through Rogernomics.

        Don’t understand how people can still be so bloody naive.

        • joe90


          most voters have lived through Ruthanasia and many through Rogernomics.

          Don’t understand how people can still be so bloody naive.

          In reply to this I reckon Tiger Mountain has answered the question.

          Well it has long been known to union organisers that some workers exhibit exactly this type of ‘ranking’ behaviour.

          The right has historically used all manner of perceived differences (e.g. race, religion, region, rural/urban, employed/unemployed/precariously employed, immigrant/indigenous, low/mid/high earners) to create division among those that in left terms have many commonalities and reasons for uniting.

          The Occupy movement has attempted to sweep that tendency away with its one take classification of society into 1 or 99%ers.

      • LynW 2.1.2

        Point taken re naivety but as CV says it is very hard to understand this explanation!. I do believe there is an alarming lack of compassion and caring being demonstrated by New Zealanders, as if it is easier to blame individuals for their plight than to help be part of the solution. Is this ignorance/naivety or survival of the fittest? The Labour campaign opening message was certainly a good opportunity to revisit ones values.

        • KJT

          I think there is a marked lack of compassion and caring amongst a certain group of swing voters.

          The lot that political parties appeal to with the tough on crime and bennie bashing.

        • uke

          It is hard to understand, perhaps, but I think it’s true to some extent and definitely mixed up with amnesia. I think most NZers have little or no interest in NZ history, for example, and without a knowledge and understanding of our history, it becomes very difficult to join the political dots. We forget very quickly and naively accept the latest propaganda. (So good on Labour in their ads for trying to restore some sense of history.)
          Of course, the “naive” characterisation is a generalisation. There are probably parts of the country where there is a very strong sense of popular memory. This seems to be the case on the West Coast. But then they voted in a Nat last time!
          It’s also hard to understand the low turnout in the last election among traditional Labour voters in core working-class communities (South & West Auckland). To be so apathetic about voting in a general election is surely a sign of political naivity and not “hollow man” callousness.

          • Colonial Viper

            Totally agree on the ignorance of NZ history. Its a shame.

            Every NZer should read Trotter’s No Right Turn to know where this country has come from and what it has gone through.

            • LynW

              I highly recommend Chris Trotter’s book also. CV, I think you are referring to his book “No Left Turn”, his 2007 history of the Left/Right struggle in New Zealand. It certainly opened my eyes.. I picked it up on a sale table soon after the last election..helped me identify my own political leanings and taught me a lot about NZ’s history. Guess that’s when I realised I’m a social democrat by definition. Have been following his blog, which lead me to this blog, ever since!

              • Tiger Mountain

                Another useful read is the Bateman Atlas of New Zealand History. The highly graphic mapping format is easy to absorb. For example a map shows the highest concentration of war memorials is in Taranaki, the region is pepper potted with them. Which partly explains why dark conservative kiwis are so prevalent there. Freemans Bay in Auckland has yoyo’d from working class to middle class and back several times. While the ridges of Remuera were captured by ‘upper’ and managerial class from early on and so forth.

        • Vicky32

          I do believe there is an alarming lack of compassion and caring being demonstrated by New Zealanders, as if it is easier to blame individuals for their plight than to help be part of the solution

          Absolutely! As my son said, New Zealanders are very judgemental… and that covers all social classes but for those on the very bottom, in my experience…

      • KJT 2.1.3

        I don’t think Brash, Kerr or Banks were the cold calculating type.

        Rather nice, well meaning people, who have been captured by a religion.

        Like most true believers they genuinely believe we would all be better off if we just followed it.

        Like many who appear briefly on here spouting the same slogans.

        New Zealanders don’t generally have much personal experience of psychopathic, winner takes all business types, typified by Key.

        New Zealanders tend to believe that most people are honest and caring.

        • uke

          My comment about “cold calculating” stemmed from watching the doco The Hollow Men last weekend. Brash certainly came across as calculating with his dog-whistle politics tactics during the 2002-2005 period-he just made quite a few wrong calculations and hence didn’t get elected in 2005.

        • M


          I believe they are cold and calculating and not well-meaning because I believe you need a certain cold-bloodedness to reach the heights they have.

          I’m certain that at one or several points in their lives they’ve known that what they’ve proposed would certainly hurt a huge pool of people so there could be a few lucky winners and instead of exercising some scruples have ignored the inner voice that told them they were wrong, not really all that different to a person who decides to throw morals to the winds and fool around on their beloved – there is always that point where they know they’re going to ignore their conscience if indeed they ever listen to it.

          Most people over thirty would have had some experience of such people or at least seen examples of it to know that there are those who don’t give a rat’s arse about anyone and press on regardless of the damage they cause.

          People can be honest and caring certainly but maybe not to the degree that fits with their ideals and opinions of others and people shouldn’t forget that everyone has a selfish gene. It pays to be cordial with people but also watch them and suss them out and if red flags are raised or if something doesn’t ring true to exercise caution and see what else comes to the fore.

          • Uturn


            When I was young I heard a saying that every great fortune conceals a crime. I didn’t believe it then because I wanted to believe that a nice guy had as much chance as anyone else. I’m not sure if I believe it now, but I have several examples of fortune hiding crime and none of nice guy finishes up rich.

        • Vicky32

          I don’t think Brash, Kerr or Banks were the cold calculating type.

          I suspect you’re being too kind to Kerr and Brash, KJT..

      • AAMC 2.1.4

        Is our worship of the market engineering or influencing a shift in our morality?

        Interesting lecture on this here..

    • ianmac 2.2

      Absolutely agree. I marvel at Phil’s stamina and his resilience in the face of MSM assault.
      I wonder why the Government MPs do not get anything like the same scrutiny?

      • chris73 2.2.1


        I thought this was quite a good article, you might get something out of it.

        • LynW

          Found Alex’s explanation re the MSM, in his response to this article, chilling but sound.

          ‘Media that is run on a for profit basis has an interest in turning a profit. If it doesn’t it goes under. To do that it needs money from advertisers –’

          summarising with…..

          ‘Essentially, it is that corporate media will promote corporate interests and this should not come as a surprise to anyone.’

          • Colonial Viper

            We saw with the News Corp scandal that it goes much further than this simple commercial relationship however.

            The moguls of corporate media have a direct interest in growing a direct influence over the levers of politics and authority in society. So you see in the UK that Mps were compromised, civil servants and government consultants were compromised, senior police officers were compromised, the list goes on.

            That goes far beyond trying to make extra money from corporate advertisers.

            • Carol

              I agree with Alex that the problem with media right-leaning bias is systemic. I recall a lecture by one of my lecturers in London, James Curran:


              The lecture was based on his research into the changes in UK newspapers under Thatcher’s time in government, and he presented a very convincing case. He described how gradually Thatcher influenced the recruitment of Tory-supporting editors to the main news publications.

              The result was that the editors also tended to unfluence recruitment of “sympathetic” journalists.

              The consequence was that Thatcher didn’t need to try to direct the publications to take particular lines/views. The editors would pre-empt Tory views, estimate what the goverment’s position would be on any issue and then tend to follow it.

              • Colonial Viper

                The editors would pre-empt Tory views, estimate what the goverment’s position would be on any issue and then tend to follow it.

                I agree with what you are saying but you also do not go far enough.

                In the UK politicians had to tow News Corp’s line to stay onside with Murdoch and his newspapers, in order to have any chance of re-election.

                The politicians did not lead, the media pushed.

                This is not democracy.

                • Carol

                  Yes, that’s a very good point on News Corp, CV. That’s a later stage in the neoliberal media dominance. Curran’s lecture was in the early-mid 1990s.

                  The neoliberal shift was the result of multi-pronged intiatives, partly generated via the influence of right wing think tanks, and the influence on teaching of economics in unis.

                  Not so much a carefully orchestrated conspiracy as a loose network of old boys with similar elitist interests.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Not so much a carefully orchestrated conspiracy as a loose network of old boys with similar elitist interests.

                    A loose network of old boys with a huge precision machinery of corporate money, lawyers, accountants and bankers acting on their behalf. Working through organisations like the World Bank, the IMF, the Federal Reserve etc.

                    You can’t orchestrate a global transformation of many powerful countries to neoliberalism and massive indebtedness without this high level of co-ordination.

      • Flossie 2.2.2

        To pick up on your point re MSM scrutiny ianmac: in the past 3 years I can’t recall any sustained criticism in the MSM of anything that Key or his Government have done. This in spite of countless stuff-ups, poor decisions and general bad management.

        In a democracy this is remarkable, and very worrying.

      • Blue 2.2.3

        The media being right wing is not a conspiracy. It simply stands to reason that there will always be some degree of right wing bias from media organisations that are run on a for-profit basis.

        Why? Because they make money from advertising. Getting the most advertising revenue is the sole aim of any of these organisations.

        And what do advertisers want? Two things. One, they want a large audience viewing their ads. Two, they want the right sort of audience viewing their ads.

        The right sort being the ones with money to spend. In other words, the ones more likely to be right wing in their views.

        Any media organisation that wants to make money will always be careful to keep the right wingers happy. And that’s exactly what they do.

    • Hilary 2.3

      I must say I am impressed with Phil Goff’s resilience and courage. Almost every day for months he has been attacked by all the forces the right and the media can throw at him, exemplified by Duncan Garner’s comment on TV3 news on Friday that Key had ‘crucified him’ (although it looked more like Muldoonist bullying to me). Yet, each day he starts again, integrity intact, smiles, and continues on his way, standing up for the ‘ordinary’ NZers.

      So if we are looking for a leader who will guide NZ through the rocky years ahead as capitalism collapses without letting the poor suffer even more than now, he could be a very good bet.

      • KJT 2.3.1


        Far from the lightweight that he has been made out to be, Goff has risen to the occasion and grown into the job.

        I was wrong with my reservations about him. He will make a fine PM. Just as Rowling would have.

        Most of us would have a problem responding to bullying from a prancing monkey.

  3. Carol 3

    While the Labour Party has focused the election campaign on policies more than National would have liked, the MSM is still focusing attention on Goff vs Key personality politics, even in relation to policies (“show me the money”).

    We need to see more of the front row teams in each party, and get on to the nitty gritty of policies, and not spend so much time on Goff and Key swapping insults. But, more importantly, we need to see much more of the minor parties which will probably have key roles in post-election government formation. I was reminded of this when I watched Citizen A with David Slack and Chris Trotter this morning:


    Both Trotter and Slack praised the Greens campaign. More significantly, I was surprised to see Trotter praise 2 leaders I have seen him srtongly criticise in the past. He praised Russel Norman for realising that NZ elections are won and lost in the suburbs, which is where Norman is focusing his camoaign.

    And Trotter was very positive about the way Hone Harawira is maturing as a political leader. He particularly mention the clear and eleffective way Hone stated the amount of money needed to help poor families and their children, offsetting it with the amount saved by pulling NZ troops out of Afghanistan.

  4. Rodel 4

    I see Jon Key will wait until after the election before deciding whether to bring the SAS back.
    (RNZ news today.) But its his ‘ expectation’ that other countries might be out by 2014 and a lot depends on that.
    Whatever happened to our independent foreign policy? Our sovereignty!!
    Is Key a puppet?

  5. Police Public Relations

    What people think about the boys in blue is a most important issue being that without good public relations, the Police are unable to do their job properly…

  6. Banter 6

    Thought David Cunfliffe was impressive this morning.
    Bill English just frittered around the edges with every question and really had no answers.

    • Uturn 6.1

      Yes, it was a gentleman’s debate compared to Key and Goff’s efforts. Not sure if that makes it better, worse or impotent. While I was watching I wondered who the show was targetted at and could only conclude it was for National voters – aloof and comfortable.

      I didn’t like Cunliffe saying that National’s policy would work in the short term. Is he unaware that short term success means “there is still time” and that the snatchers will take what they can and not vote for his team? His concern should be for the people who cannot wait another 3 years to start below zero.

  7. David Cunliffe just said on Q+A that Labour will consider the United Future flexi super age policy.

  8. Campbell Larsen 8

    Interesting to note that the SST has changed it’s 2011 elections banner at the top of those pages in response to objections that the previous version strongly resembled National party branding and was a breach of election rules.
    I am still not that comfortable with it, too much National brand in the stars and the blue, but it is better than it was.
    Just goes to show that the MSM needs to be held to account – left to their own devices they do not take their responsibility to be impartial very seriously – but people speaking out can make a difference.

  9. M 9

    Yeah Chris, call them out.

    ‘This fine was a payoff to the SEC by Goldman Sachs of about four days’ worth of revenue, and in return they avoided going to court. CEO Lloyd Blankfein apparently not only lied to clients, but to the subcommittee itself on April 27, 2010, when he told lawmakers: “We didn’t have a massive short against the housing market, and we certainly did not bet against our clients.” Yet, they did.’


  10. M 10

    Leo Panitch on Greek crisis and capitalism

  11. “Winston Peters says won’t work with National, or Labour, or the Greens, or the Maori Party.”

    Maybe it’s a moot point, but it rules out a possible Labour cobbled coalition option – if Winston is true to his word and he manages to get back in.

  12. M 12

    Foreclosure firm mocks victims at Halloween party:


    Could hardly believe I heard this on the Keiser Report but looked it up – nice one Stacy and Max:

    Fuck I hope the mills of God grind quickly for the pricks working at Steven J Baum – they are evil personnified.

  13. Duncan Garner – National Hack

    A couple of days ago Duncan Garner showed us all what a complete political hack he is in a news broadcast on TV3. Garner claimed that John Key had “crucified” Phill Goff by saying, “show me the money” in a Press Leaders debate held in Christchurch on 2 November…

    • Willie Maley 13.1

      Garner should hang his head in shame. Political editor? My arse.

    • tc 13.2

      Garner, Espiner, Holmes and all the rest are just paid lackeys of their masters whims, chuck a few ‘Editorial guidelines’ about and watch the monkeys dance to the tune. Holmes articles could be written years ago it’s so predictable a few minor tweaks for something recent and leave the rest as is.

      They wouldn’t even rate an interview with a serious broadcster let alone get a job as the CV doesn’t contain any journalism just repackaged gov’t spin lines and poor interview technique.

      As a senior Oz journo said in dicsussion a few years back ‘what’s going on over there….so much material and they do dick with it…..we live for those kind of opportnities to show what a bunch of chumps we’re paying for….’ I believe the word ‘lynched’ was used when I sought comment over a blinglish styled budget being tabled in Oz.

    • millsy 13.3

      The media’s support of the National government is worse than blatant, and Fairfax, Mediaworks, and APN, along with TVNZ need to be made accountable for their partisanship, which is more or less on a par with Pravda’s support of the Soviet government.

  14. Im expecting a statue of the “Great Leader ‘ to be erected in Queen St any day now. The Nats completly dominate all the news media and TV so the logical next step is a statue to the great wave and smile.

    • Carol 15.1

      [Key] said, “Well, it depends on what you mean by the word `done’. I mean, we could call on experts to give us opposing views, but at the end of the day, it’s just their opinion.”

      Goff should use that line when Key tries a $11-$17 billion “show me the money” kind of rant again.

    • ianmac 15.2

      When my son was about 8 he was using that sort of argument to avoid heaps of things, but then he grew up. Funny how satire is fundamentally so true.
      “Depends on what you mean by done,” says John Key again and again, while Duncan Garner smiles and waves.

  15. Steve 16

    The Standard is not linked to the Labour Party so you won’t mind showing this will you:
    [actually, we would. we don’t promote that scumbag’s material. Zet]

    [lprent: Steve is also already banned until the 27th. I presume that he was linking to that lying dishonest idiot Slater. Perhaps I should extend his ban? ]

  16. National’s Election Hoarding’s 10

    A little while ago, National’s State Services Minister Tony Ryall insisted that National has capped, not cut, funding for core public services. 

    However the State Services Commission’s annual Human Resource Capability Survey (PDF) released last month showed that 959 positions were lost in the past year alone.

    Yesterday Tony Ryall said a further $240 million a year could be cut from the public services budget.

  17. Yeah yeah i know, NO PWNING on this site…

    …but what else do you call it when Keith Ng tears Brook Sabin and TV3 a new one ?


    haha…fucking classic badass journalisting !!!

  18. Campbell Larsen 21

    Ugh- Bryce Edwards on tvnz7 news, gushing about Shonkey and big upping the Nats.
    Two sporting references so far, rugby (sigh) one from the interviewer – shame! and then horse race from Bryce – sly reference to first post the post? or just dumbing down from them both?
    Piss poor tvnz. Piss poor.

  19. Morrissey 22

    Steve Williams has a few defenders—no surprises who…

    Believe it or not, that foul-mouthed, racist golf caddy Steve Williams still has a few defenders. Yes, you guessed it—Williams has been loudly defended all weekend on Auckland’s infamous radio station NewstalkZB—which will come as no surprise to anyone, bearing in mind that NewstalkZB management has defiantly continued to employ out-and-out racists MURRAY DEAKER, PAUL HOLMES, and LEIGHTON SMITH despite their repeated indulgence in the most virulently racist on-air rants.

    Saturday, November 6, 2011
    All afternoon, NewstalkZB host Willy Lose (AKA Wiwwy Wose) repeatedly informs his listeners (“wistenahs”) that he is utterly mystified that anyone could see anything wrong with Williams’ words. To discuss the matter further, he speaks to Hong Kong-based PGA correspondent NICK

    WILLY LOSE: Nick, I’d wike your comments pwease. Steve Wiwwiams appawwentwy said “It was my aim to shove it wight up that bwack asshoww.” Do you think it’s too much to weport a wight-hearted comment wike that?

    NICK DYE: What do YOU think, Willy? Would YOU say something like that in public?

    WILLY LOSE: Ahhhhh… ummmm… no, I wouldn’t.

    NICK DYE: Would you say it was all “good fun and banter”?

    WILLY LOSE: Hmmmmm. [Long pause.] Do you think theah wiww be sanctions
    against him?

    NICK DYE: It’s only going to get worse for Steve Williams from here on.

    WILLY LOSE: Nick Dye fwom Hong Kong. Thanks vewy much.

    NICK DYE: Thank you.

    WILLY LOSE: Gosh, what a wot of fuss about a wittaw bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment. I’d wike to heah your views, wistenahs. Wing now on 0800 80 1080. Fouw spare wines…

    Sunday November 6, 2011
    So, the big question is: Will Murray (“Too many brown faces in rugby”) Deaker see anything wrong with Steve Williams saying he’d like to “shove it up that black asshole”? Well, what do YOU think, readers?….

    DEAKER: It’s nothing more than GOSSIP. People just love seeing someone successful in the cart. What would I say to my mate Steve? Well, I would have advised him to apply my three litmus tests before he ever says anything in public. Those three litmus tests are as follows. Number 1: How’s it gonna benefit ME? Number 2: How’s it gonna benefit my family? And number 3: Am I gonna make any MONEY out of it? Those are the three litmus tests, and if you don’t pass them, my advice is to say nothing—because even if you joke light-heartedly like Steve did at this caddies’ dinner in Hong Kong, they’re going to jump all over you.

    I tell you what, though: Adam Scott has gone to new heights, the way I look at life. Adam said he’s sticking with Steve, because he’s a top caddy.

    [gravely]Make no mistake: the clobbering machine is out to get Steve Williams. [steadily getting angrier] I see that the Daily Mail quoted an “unnamed caddy” as saying: “We knew he was an idiot but we didn’t know he was a racist idiot.” [pausing for effect, snorting loudly through nostrils] If someone is unnamed, you can be sure that the writer is MAKING IT UP. [audibly frothing at the mouth] And I see a quote from an “unnamed official” on the European circuit: “I’m glad he’s not on our circuit.” [long, long pause for effect] Does ANYBODY in their RIGHT MINDS believe there really WAS an unnamed official?

    [brightening] Kyla, what deals have you got today with your Bio-Mag?
    ————————————————————————— ———
    Meanwhile, back in the real world, it’s looking bleak for the world’s most notorious bag-boy….

    Pressure mounts over Williams’ racial insult
    (AFP) – 4 hours ago
    SHANGHAI — Pressure was mounting Sunday on the European Tour to investigate caddy Steve Williams after his racial insult aimed at golf legend Tiger Woods caused worldwide revulsion.
    Williams sparked outrage when he used a racial slur to refer to former employer Woods after he collected an award during a caddies’ gala dinner at the WGC-HSBC Champions in China on Friday evening. …..

  20. just saying 23


    Probably a bit late now, but the above by Andrew Geddis has a little bit of a go at Bill’s post on the Dunedin occupy movement, and I thought he might like to respond.

    Also the legalitites he raises are quite interesting.

  21. How the heck can people still support Steve Williams or Murray Deaker?

    • Morrissey 24.1

      How the heck can people still support Steve Williams or Murray Deaker?

      Actually, they don’t. Deaker makes a point of loudly supporting anybody who utters racist outbursts or beats up women. A few of the “decent guys” who have enjoyed the truculent support of Deaker are: Paul Holmes, Andy Haden, Robin Brooke, and Tony Veitch.

      Deaker’s “support” comes almost entirely from his colleagues at NewstalkZB.

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