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Open Mike 06/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 6th, 2016 - 104 comments
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104 comments on “Open Mike 06/11/2016 ”

    • Ad 1.1

      Tiny case of over-sell from the gardeners.

      • The age-old adage, “follow the hippies” applies to the gardeners as well 🙂

        • weka

          Funny, given that Bill Mollison was thinking about climate change in the 1970s and went on to co-create a practical system that people could apply anywhere on the globe that would both mitigate AGW and help us adapt. He in fact wrote a training programme on it, and then gave it away for anyone to use. One that is used across many cultures but is particularly useful for the Western mind that struggles with concept of the interconnectedness of life and what that means for CC. Since then, tens of thousands of people have experimented with those tools in various situations, climates, political systems etc, and in the fields of food growing, sustainable housing, economics, social permaculture etc, so that by now we have a solid set of working examples to draw on.

          Maddy Harland’s work looks like a useful response to the natural consequence of the mainstream running round like a CC chicken with its head chopped off. I look forward to what she presents on paradigm changes, because that’s where the hope is for mitigation.

          The big irony is that the people poo-pooing the gardeners are the ones who will be relying on them to survive once the shit hits the fan. If we don’t act now and mitigate the worst of CC, it’s the damn hippies who will be sharing how to survive the storm.

  1. Richard Rawshark 2


    It’s about productivity Stupid!

    Bernard Hickey, well Bernie, cheers mate.

    Someone who knows puffed up bullshit when he hears it and investigates the truth.

    Bernard thought to himself is this belief correct and questioned it.

    Proud of you Bernie, Your CBT is doing there job.

    • pat 2.1

      “It seems to make no sense. How can an economy be growing strongly at 3.5 per cent-plus and not be heating up wage inflation or lowering unemployment?

      The simple answer is that almost all that jobs growth over the last two years was soaked up by net migration of 131,188 and an increase of 28,200 in the number of people over the age of 65 who are working.”

      Nationals economic strategy summed up in two short paragraphs.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      “Productivity isn’t everything, but in the long run it is almost everything,” Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman wrote in 1994. “A country’s ability to improve its standard of living over time depends almost entirely on its ability to raise its output per worker,” he said then.

      True but does anyone truly understand that?

      We get increasing productivity through applied technology. We see this in farming. Where once farming would have taken up close to 50% of our labour force to produce just enough to feed ourselves we’re now at the point where farming uses about 7% to produce enough calories to feed about five times our number.

      While farmers are celebrating this fact it’s actually the wrong thing to do. Everyone can farm and everyone will get the same or better productivity and so trade opportunities are limited. In other words, more farming doesn’t make us richer – please note the crash in dairy prices. In fact, more of the same thing will never make us richer no matter what that thing is.

      As productivity increases in one industry we need to reduce the people working in that industry. This should happen naturally as wages in that industry would go down as productivity increased reducing the need for people to supply the local population. Unfortunately our politicians and business people don’t seem to like doing the hard stuff of developing the economy and have reached for trade as the fix. Produce more of the same and just export it.

      But all trade will go the same way as dairy prices because all countries can produce everything with the same level of productivity. It wasn’t higher productivity that shifted jobs from the developed countries to China and now from China into Africa. It’s lower wages, worse working conditions and lack of environmental protections. In other words, it’s because it appears to cost less.

      It doesn’t of course. Those lower wages mean that the people being hired aren’t in the best health and are stressed and so have lower output per person. Those worse working conditions add to that never mind that it also means that those people being actively oppressed. And the lack of environmental protections are going to hurt everyone just a few years down the track. What we actually see is a massive cost increase but those costs have been put firmly upon the poor and the future.

      Increase productivity and use that to diversify and develop the economy. Don’t just do more of the same as that doesn’t make us better off.

  2. Richard Rawshark 3

    Garaths got 1000 supporters already.

    Listen Garath 998 dogs and you mum is not a support base mate!

    • Ad 3.1

      They said that of Trump. Careful.

      Gareth Morgan is:
      – policy coherent
      – self funding
      – well rehearsed
      – going list only
      – media savvy

      This is a very smart start.

      • b waghorn 3.1.1

        It’s going to be an interesting 11 months till election day. making tax fair , ubi ,using a science based approach to cc and cleaning up the pests, he’s got my attention.

        • BM

          Yep, I can see Morgan getting around 5-6% of the vote.

          Would you have a problem if he went into coalition with National?

          • b waghorn

            It would pain me deeply while the likes of collins ,mccully and key are still in national.
            I see him as more of a natural fit in a labour greens gov.

            • BM

              I think he’d clash badly with the greens, he’s more a pragmatist, while the greens are more ideologically based.

              I can sort of see Morgan being a backup option for left wing people, they’d prefer a left wing government but that’s looking rather slim, so a party vote for Morgan would still gets a few left/environmental policies onto the table

              • b waghorn

                I won’t lose any sleep if he smacks some common sense into the green party. I voted green in the clark years because i thought a term in government under an iron fist would teach them how the real world works

                • BM

                  Green politics (also known as ecopolitics) is a political ideology that aims to create an ecologically sustainable society rooted in environmentalism, nonviolence, social justice, and grassroots democracy.

                  This is what pops up when you google greens ideology.

                  I don’t think the greens will be changing for anyone anytime soon, I get the feeling Morgan would find working with Key and National a lot easier and productive.

                  • b waghorn

                    I don’t think i could vote for him if i thought he’d go with the nats ,integrity of government is too important to me.

                    • BM

                      That only leaves you the options of greens or labour.

                      Everyone else could end up in coalition with National

                • Draco T Bastard

                  The problem being, of course, is that our political system is designed to deny the real world.

          • mauī

            lol, he wouldn’t touch National with a barge pole.

            • BM

              So, you only see TOP as a left wing party?

              Certainly getting a bit crowded on that side of the fence.

              • mauī

                Morgan’s a progressive not a regressive.

                • Enough is Enough

                  which is why he is a danger to the left. He will gobbleup our votes if we are not careful.

                  Morgan on 3-4% would be terrible asit is wated vote

                  • BM

                    I see Morgans party being only good for National.

                  • mauī

                    If he is that successful, a large chunk of those voters will be defecting nat voters I think. So that hurts both sides.

                    • pat

                      suspect if he’s successful (passes 5%) he will have drawn from all sides whereas there is a very real risk of drawing away non government support and being unsuccessful….the worst possible scenario IMO.
                      How they poll over the coming months will be critical to how this should be viewed….if only the polls could be relied upon.

                    • mosa

                      Defecting Nat voters is an oxymoron surely.

                      The polls are telling us Nationals vote is holding steady after not changing for nearly nine years.

                      After all John Key is the most popular PM ever isn’t he ?

                    • mauī

                      It’s a slow collapse mosa, imperceptible at times. I hope that’s not just wishful thinking but it’s what I’m feeling.

                  • fisiani

                    Actually after vote redistribution it is worth 1.5-2% to National

                • Richard Rawshark

                  agreed his UBI flies polar opposite to national, in fact most of his policies are left , or if cats, Hitler like.

                  I wouldn’t touch the prick with your bargepole, I hate with all my being anyone who would kill a living creature to not put food on their table.

                  Even then barely.

                  There are other solutions and frankly IMHO he’s nuts.

              • b waghorn

                ”Certainly getting a bit crowded on that side of the fence.”

                act /mp/unf/conservatives as opposed to labour/greens/top .
                i know which i prefer

      • Richard Rawshark 3.1.2

        Smart start?, make every cat owner in NZ fear you with their lives..are you on drugs?

    • James 3.2

      Rumour has been said labour only have 5k paid supporters – so 20% of that in a day or two isn’t bad going.

  3. Morrissey 4

    “Where was the haka for kids in Aleppo being bombed by the Russians?”
    Josie Pagani was, yet again, embarrassingly inept on a dire edition of The Panel

    RNZ National, Wednesday 2 November 2016
    Jim Mora, Stephen Franks, Josie Pagani, Zara Potts

    Outside of ACT Party cocktail gatherings or Sensible Sentencing klaverns, it’s rare that someone, anywhere, would be so crazed and/or so ill-informed that the S.S. “legal counsel”, Sheriff Joe Arpaio fan and former ACT MP Stephen Franks looks sane and sensible in comparison. But that’s just what poor old Josie Pagani managed to achieve on Wednesday afternoon. The always consistent Franks was up to his usual shenanigans, i.e., long-winded, sententious, swingeing attacks on any persons or institutions he disagrees with. Pagani, a useful idiot if ever there was one—Cameron Slater calls her “my punching bag”—played the role of patsy, endorsing nearly everything Franks said.

    There was one area of major disagreement, however: Pagani wants to increase the level of bloodshed and mayhem in Syria, while Franks believes the United States, and its vassals and proxies, must stop supporting ISIS and Al Qaeda, AKA Al Nusra Front, AKA “the rebel groups”. It is an indictment of Josie Pagani’s naïveté, her lack of smarts, that she comes on National Radio and presents as considerably less rational and less humane than an S.S. operative and former ACT MP. But, even more, it is an indictment of the Labour Party that Pagani plays any part in its policy formulation on ANY topic.

    So this edition of The Panel, more than normally, was a farrago of frabjous, footling, fatuous foolishness. Sensitive readers are warned that the following contains several instances of mad ranting, brutal lying and maddening imbecility….

    Jazzy musical intro….

    JIM MORA: [breezily] On the day when Auckland’s Sky Path across the Harbour Bridge gets consent from the Environment Court, we welcome two ELEVATED panelists! The lawyer and former MP Stephen Franks, and someone who COULD’VE been an MP—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: [winsome snicker] He he.
    JIM MORA: —-but is now instead the director of the Council for International Development, the umbrella organization that represents New Zealand NGOs like World Vision, Save the Children, Oxfam, and so on, Josie Pagani. Hullo Josie, hullo Stephen.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Good afternoon.
    Brief introductory pleasantries follow, then it’s down to the, er, “serious” stuff….

    JIM MORA: More about what the Panelists want to talk about at halftime. How to summarize this first story’s state of play today? So fast changing all of this from America that we need a distinguished academic—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: [anxious snicker Hmm, hmm!
    JIM MORA: —aah, from the United States, to join us, which she will shortly.


    JIM MORA: Do you think it’s amazing—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: [anxious snort] Hmmm! Ha!
    tJIM MORA: —that the Americans are voting with such major kind of national security question marks over their candidates? It’s an astonishing election isn’t it?
    Franks responds to that, managing to work Adolf Hitler into his lengthy rumination. Then Pagani opportunistically seizes on an opening provided by Franks to trash someone she loathes and detests much more than Donald Trump: the leader of Europe’s largest social democratic party….[1]
    JOSIE PAGANI: That’s the thing, Jim, no one can quite work out whether Trump is, as Madeleine Albright calls him, a useful idiot to the Russians and to Putin and, I think one of the CIA, former CIA, um, operatives called him an “unwitting agent of Putin”. So is he just an, a useful idiot to the Russians, or is he, is this, ahhh—
    STEPHEN FRANKS: See, how—
    JOSIE PAGANI: Is this DELIBERATE? Has he actually carved out—
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Is it very different from CORBYN? I mean, CORBYN, a candidate—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: Not particularly, no!
    STEPHEN FRANKS: —- for a major party, the same sort of WEIRD views on—
    JOSIE PAGANI: Iran, Russia, Hamas, yeah—
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Israel and all the rest of it.
    JOSIE PAGANI: Mmmmm.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: I’m not sure that it’s different in kind. I think it’s different in that it’s an unrelenting diet of this, and it’s tribalized the electorate. It’s the electorate that matters to me, whether they, whether you get a mandate in an election is really important, whether people say, Okay, the election’s over, he is now my president. If they refuse to say that, and that’s the way Americans have been heading, then it’s R-R-REALLY corrosive.


    JOSIE PAGANI: Actually in this election, you’ve still predominantly got rich billionaires voting Republican and working families voting Democrat. It’s actually not as different as we think. We think everything’s been turned on its head and working class are voting Trump. Well actually, angry white MEN are voting Trump, but actually the working class is predominantly brown and black.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Tsk, tsk, tsk.
    JIM MORA: There are quite a few rich billionaires, ahhh, on Hillary’s side, too.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: [snickering] Exactly! And the media establishment, and the academic establishment, and—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: But I think you’ll fi-i-i-iind that there’s still this—yeah, there’s ALWAYS been this middle class, social liberals, who vote Democrat.


    Hilariously, given that he is an ex-MP and that he works for the S.S. Trust, and he’s one of Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s most fanatical shills, Franks affects to be appalled at Saudi Arabia’s human rights record. And as for China….

    STEPHEN FRANKS: We’ve been sucking up to China for years now in a really greasy way that’s offended the U.S. and others, basically because we’re too weak to do otherwise.


    Then comes a horrifying lightweight “debate” on Syria. Franks says that “our” Syria policy is “moral”, but it’s in the interests of no one. …

    JOSIE PAGANI: You’re saying we shouldn’t be in Syria?
    STEPHEN FRANKS: I’m saying that morality in foreign policy leads to disaster.

    The “debate” continues after the news, in the “Soapbox” segment. In a noteworthy few minutes, Franks is the sensible, reasonable adult in the room, while Pagani’s position is identical to that of TV3’s National Party rep Paul “Kill Them ALL” Henry. Having no actual knowledge of the insurrection in Syria, she is reduced to reiterating State Department black propaganda, which was discredited almost as soon as it appeared [2]….

    JIM MORA: So, uh, Stephen, anything on your mind?
    STEPHEN FRANKS: New Zealand’s discussion of foreign affairs stuff is SO unsophisticated and SO moralizing. We called for the United Nations to do something in Syria—-
    JOSIE PAGANI: That was one of our finest moments Stephen. You’re advocating we do nothing?
    STEPHEN FRANKS: We haven’t been “doing nothing”. We’ve given enormous amounts to the “rebel groups”.
    JOSIE PAGANI: Could I ask you, when Assad dropped chemical weapons on civilians….[she chunters on stupidly, terrifyingly for about the same length of time she’s spent reading about Syria—twenty or thirty seconds.]


    After his brief moment of lucidity, Franks returns to his habitual cantankerous scoffing at everything, with a special contempt for some non-white untermenschen who have been getting uppity in North Dakota recently…..

    JIM MORA: What do you think about hundreds of New Zealanders doing the haka in support of the Dakota Pipeline protestors?
    STEPHEN FRANKS: They’re wasting their time.
    JOSIE PAGANI: [voice rising in intensity and bitterness] Why THIS? This North Dakota pipeline? Where was the haka for kids in Aleppo being bombed by the Russians?
    JIM MORA: [slowly, carefully, as if he’s serious] Are you happy we know enough about Standing Rock to join the chorus?
    STEPHEN FRANKS: If you’re a Maori M.P. you only have to show that you’re sticking it to the man. Anyway, the Native Americans sold that land a long time ago.

    Neither Pagani nor Mora has the wit or the wherewithal to challenge him on that lie, which he probably took from a learned conversation with his friend Don Brash.


    Near the end of the hour they indulge in some frothing at the mouth about the Losi Filipo case. Law Society president, and Panel regular, Jonathan Krebs is brought on for this brief segment. Note how emotional Pagani gets, considering she has just been advocating mass bombing in Syria….
    JOSIE PAGANI: Horrible, bloody…. a CASUALNESS about violence!
    JONATHAN KREBS: It was horrific, a really VIOLENT act.
    JOSIE PAGANI: It’s like what happened with the Chiefs and the stripper.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Arrgghhh! [snorts derisively]
    JONATHAN KREBS: Well, actually, the issue with the stripper is that she felt vulnerable and scared.
    STEPHEN FRANKS: Well she SAYS she did. It’s offensive to the VICTIMS to compare the two.


    To finish the program on a positive note, Mora breezily mentions that today is “Right to Die” Day. That’s code for euthanasia. The three of them discuss the issue with the same moral seriousness, ethical credibility, and intellectual authority that Mike Hosking and his unfunny producer Glenn would bring to the topic over on NewstalkZB. Final wild swing of the day goes to the former ACT MP….

    STEPHEN FRANKS: [slowly, with deadly mock gravitas] Hospital staff DO actually practise euthanasia.

    Predictably, neither Pagani nor Mora so much as utter a demur at that remarkable, disturbing, evidence-free, breathtakingly casual libel against New Zealand hospital staff. With the studio reduced to a silence closely resembling stupidity, the end music mercifully kills off the show.

    [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/24/labour-leadership-results-jeremy-corbyn-set-for-huge-win-but-fac/
    [2] http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/01/20/mit-study-further-destroys-washingtons-syria-chemical-weapons-claim/

    Anyone wishing to savor this program in its full-blown madness can click on the following…..

    • save nz 4.1

      +1 Morrissey – God help us,

      JOSIE PAGANI – the director of the Council for International Development, the umbrella organization that represents New Zealand NGOs like World Vision, Save the Children, Oxfam,

      • Morrissey 4.1.1

        I wonder if the good and decent people who work for those charities are aware of her bloodthirsty enthusiasm for attacking Syria.

    • Garibaldi 4.2

      Quite agree. I was unfortunate enough to turn it on .I recognized Frank’s voice straight away ( and thought ‘oh shit’) , then heard this stupid bloody woman and thought it has to be bloody Pagani… so I turned it off. Jim Mora has become a bloody embarrassment.

      • Morrissey 4.2.1

        I recognized Frank’s voice straight away ( and thought ‘oh shit’)

        That’s also my reaction whenever I hear his voice. But on this occasion, apart from four or five times, he came across as reasonable and thoughtful. Certainly he was more serious and balanced than Pagani was.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.3

      Morrissey, mate….while I do enjoy your critiques of Natrad’s ‘Giggles With Jim’ ….thing…(I’m loath to call it a ‘program’) I’m starting to wonder if, perhaps, you should maybe do what the rest of us have done and simply not listen to it. Turn it off.

      Flick Natrad an email (or two or three hundred!) and let them know why….

      “Dear National Radio, RNZ (or whatever your are calling yourselves these days),
      I am tuning out from your station now, because if I have to listen to any more of the mindless drivel that this wee chat session produces I think I may very well completely lose the plot.

      I do understand that in order to retain the limited amount of funding that Our Leaders deign to throw your way a certain amount of pandering to the right is necessary.

      However, surely there are more worthy candidates for the guest list? People who not only have opinions are are keen to express them, but people who can support their voiced opinions with actual facts…or at least some personal experience of what they are opining about.

      People with real intelligence and tolerable personalities.

      Or at least….interesting people.

      I suspect, however, that the majority of the guests on Giggles With Jim are also avid listeners of the …thing…( I am loath to call it a ‘program’), and use that time listening to other guests interacting with Jim to learn how they are expected to interact with Jim when they win the lottery and are called to the mike.

      And so the awful cycle is perpetuated.

      Finally, I hope you accept my criticism of Giggles With Jim in the spirit that this is written.

      (I’ll leave this section for your own personal input Morrissey.)

      Most Sincerely,

      Morrissey. ”

      {I have myself emailed Gentle Jim with a possible topic for conversation with his guests when I have had foreknowledge that one of the guests has involvement with an organisation that I have been lobbying for some time to actually recognise the issues affecting some 40% of this organisation’s representative population. I sent data, solid research….real information and facts. I made an heartfelt plea (as someone affected)….but to no avail. }

      • Morrissey 4.3.1

        Thanks Rosemary. I’m afraid, however, that it’s like my struggles with the demon drink—coffee. I just can’t stop myself.

  4. James 5

    Go the mighty all All Blacks.

    • Enough is Enough 5.1

      And the Kiwis (they are channel higher)

    • Gangnam Style 5.2

      They are playing Ireland, they will win, yawn. But you come on a left wing political blog to utter an inane cliche, slow hand clap well done. Rumour has it that you are a paid troll so do you get paid by the word so any pointless uttering will do?

      • Enough is Enough 5.2.1

        Speak for yourself some left wingers like rugby too

        • Gangnam Style

          Who said I didn’t like rugby? Who said I was speaking for all lefties?

          • James

            If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck …..

            • Enough is Enough

              exactly James

              Just for the record Gangnam

              Ireland is winning 25-8 at half time. Anything but the yawn fest your intital idiotic comment suggested

        • Morrissey

          “Some” left wingers? “Left wingers” enjoy the game as much, probably more, than “right wingers”. I mean: have you listened to those miserable sods on Radio Sport? Nearly all of them—with the honorable exception like Darcy Waldegrave—pour forth a never-ending stream of reflexively right wing comments whenever they can, but they don’t actually seem to enjoy or understand the game very much.

          • James

            Indeed +1. . It never ceases to amaze me that some people are so blind that they will hate on even a game of sport based on political leanings – just because in their little mind it might be enjoyed by people with a different leaning.

            It’s just a game – which can be enjoyed by everybody.

            You should try watching it – it’s a great game, Ireland could well and truely win (so much for your prediction on that one). And you might just enjoy it mr grumpy pants. (Gagnam style)

            • Barfly

              John Key In an All Black jersey with All Blacks in the photo

              “It never ceases to amaze me that some people are so blind that they will hate on even a game of sport based on political leanings –”

              Politicise the sport as a promo prop for a vile politician then bitch about the consequences…I thought you were one of the less thick Standard trolls… /Shrug

      • Morrissey 5.2.2

        Gangnam Style, how much do you actually KNOW about rugby? The halftime score is 25-8 to Ireland. So much for your assertion that “they will win, yawn.” Come on, my son, leave the idiotic and ignorant predictions to the likes of Tony “It wasn’t ME” Veitch and Martin “Moron” Devlin.

        It’s a great game, by the way, and Soldier Field looks like it’s packed. Great for Chicago natives at the game; for once this season the long-suffering fans of the dismal Chicago Bears are able to watch a fast, open, fluid game of football.

        Meanwhile, over in Blighty—Coventry, to be precise— two teams dressed in almost identical strips, are slugging it out in near-zero temperature in a sombre, poorly lit, sparsely attended match.

    • b waghorn 5.3

      lock up your toilets chicago

      • Sanctuary 5.3.1

        I wonder with how many willing young ladies inside?

      • James 5.3.2

        Yep. Great to see Aaron smith back in the starting lineup.

        • chris73

          Yes indeed, a fantastic effort by the Irish, hopefully all the negative-types will now shut up about the All Blacks winning so much.

          Since the All Blacks had to lose I’m glad it was to the Irish, the way the played the game showed how you can win without being boring (take note England and South Africa)…although I wouldn’t mind seeing Argentina and the Welsh get a win as well

        • Gabby

          Dunny didn’t have the best game did he?

          • Gangnam Style

            I stand corrected, now that is exciting! No more Harlem Globetrotter boredom, now I wish I saw the game, will watch now.

  5. Siobhan 6

    I may be well out of the loop here….but did Pagani and Legget and that Blairite blogger guy actually form a ‘think-tank’ in the back of Stuart Nashs fire engine…or was that just a horrible rumour??

  6. James 7

    Meh : it’s open Mike so feel free. It to comment or ignore.

    But just to make you happy – not paid. So your rumour mill is sub standard.

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 8

    *Ahem* US election thread for today…?

    [weekend edition, posted yesterday 😉 – weka]

  8. fisiani 9


    New Zealand could become the haven for the mega wealthy. A little experiment folks.

    Anyone think that is a bad idea? surely not even the most rabid poster would oppose this.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1

      Yes, it’s a bad idea. New Zealanders would be priced out of being able to live here.

      Of course, that’s already happening under the delusional capitalist system.

      We cannot afford the rich.

    • Richard Rawshark 9.2

      I do, they lock up huge amounts of productive land for there..greedy fkn selves.

      There are so many reasons i deplore masses of rich scum coming here I wouldn’t know where to start.

      They lock out land. They interfere in politics which they have no clue about Liu?????

      They form a parties and wreck elections Dotfatty

      stop I can’t go on i’ll get wild..

      • chris73 9.2.1

        “stop I can’t go on i’ll get wild..”

        If you stop now the tories win so keep going!

      • fisiani 9.2.2

        So Draco and Rawshark are unwilling to have mega successful people live in New Zealand. They would probably feel more at home in North Korea.
        I knew that some of the posters on The Standard were rabid but I assumed that all sane and rational people would be happy to have such residents. My experiment has been a great success.They are like Trump!!!!!!

        • Richard Rawshark

          As usual you extrapolate it into something it wasn’t to make some smart fkn arsed comment..

          The gist of the post was loads of, multitudes a shit load of filthy rich.

          keep it in context or your not helping the debate we are having your twisting it for… that’s what i’d love to know..why are you always here twisting things around?

        • Richard Rawshark

          The facts for me, Fisinai that rich people coming here would lock up land which I would hope would increase house prices even more, I found out yesterday my..68k house is now worth a good 180k and if I finish of the renovations i’d get low 190’s

          Awesome, i’ll cash up and go to Albanian where people still fight for true democracy, they haven’t been doing it long and it’s not completely wrecked by rich interests and business.

          BTW if Key wins I am selling up..I have true paradise waiting I freaking love that place with all my heart.,

          You stay here mate enjoy.

          • fisiani

            Tirana is a bit cold so wrap up warmly when you get there next year. You’ll love the cold beetroot soup. If you think we have a shortage of land then you really need to get out of your shoebox and see more of this wonderful country.

            • Richard Rawshark

              lol it was 45 during summer in Tirane and about -10 during winter it’s kind of located like queenstown alexander , in a basin.

              I have family there, 2 of my cousins are in parliament there, I am also the president of the Shiperia percecuted peoples party of NZ hoinerary apparently..lolz..

              I had one soup with cheese in it, it was disgusting.. but plenty of pizza shops , bars.

              I should write you the story sometime, should be made film..

              There was a massive search for me in the country when I went there they put me on TV everything..

              My family Kulla..is a well respected Albanian family who were regarded before Enver, supported while persecuted through enver and came out the other side, leading the revolution, I have photo’s of them somewhere fighting the police etc..

              anyways when communism fell they started th e search for my father with help from the internet, it got huge , and national even, I got a phone call on my exact 40th from anb Albanian who asked me if I was …. real name..No one knew my real name..no one..

              So I was shocked..it went quite fast from there, and I have been there 2 times now for a good period.. The place is a hidden gem,.

              I don’t even know why I am still here frankly..

            • Richard Rawshark

              BTW, you didn’t mention the corn?

              • fisiani

                Sell your shoebox and buy a village in your beloved Albania cos John Key will win 2017,2020 and 2023. Chris Bishop will win 2026, 2029 and 2032.

                • Richard Rawshark

                  I have a Kulla.

                  I have a share of a castle and it’s land..

                  So actually I own a castle..True lol.

                  PS, it’s pretty forked, Run down and hardly used but technically true.

                  Bit of kiwi no how though, it’ll be Rawsharks mansion of delights.

        • Draco T Bastard

          So Draco and Rawshark are unwilling to have mega successful people live in New Zealand.

          They’re successful at being thieves but that’s about it. After all, the only way to get rich is steal from everyone else.

  9. Ad 10

    Awesome win by Ireland against the All Blacks!!!

    • Ffloyd 10.1

      Absolutely! ABs will be suffering from a little bit of The Black Dog for a while.

      • chris73 10.1.1

        Maybe but the mark of a champion team is how they bounce back…but great for world rugby (and Ireland of course)

      • Richard Rawshark 10.1.2

        -ffloyd 10.1

        No John will be consoling them on the hot phone direct to AB headquarters.

        Listen guys, ackshully it was a win for effort, after full time lads we can turn it around, it’s not a deficit, we’ll add on the points from the last two games, extrapolate the averages whilst bill writes up what the actual score was..

        What was it Bill?

        Were fine John I’ve done the sums again i’ve pulled us out of the shit and we are in the lead by around 100 billion.

  10. Sanctuary 11

    Are middle class pet owners who take to social media the whine about Guy Fawkes and demand it be banned really any different to Trump supporters when push comes to shove? The liberal mindset is terribly intolerant.

    /Commence rant/

    To be clear, I don’t really give a shit about fireworks. It is instant calling for the banning of fireworks that gets up my nose. Banning people doing something you don’t like is not fucking tolerant and/or democratic. Calling to ban something simply because it upsets you is just part of a much wider lack of real tolerance that has crept into our selfish society, and partially explains why there so many angry people in the English speaking world. Reading all the outraged liberal middle class people posting about Guy Fawkes last night it occurred to me that all the tolerant liberal types who hate Donald Trump and UKIP etc etc are only tolerant as long as that tolerance doesn’t actually require them to put themselves out in any way to actually be tolerant. If you look at all the intemperate and extravagant language used in anti-fireworks posts and compare it to the language used by Trump voters at his rallies – the ex-factory worker who has just lost his new, lower paid job to an even lower paid illegal immigrant who doesn’t speak English – you realise there is more than a passing similarity. Liberal tolerance of immigration is easy when you are not affected. Liberal support of gay marriage is piece of cake if it don’t hold strong religious beliefs anyway.

    The proles who lose their jobs to migrants and oppose gay marriage because God says so are told to suck it up and stop being so intolerant by the very same people who can’t even tolerate one night a year of fireworks without demanding it be banned because they don’t like it. It is a completely self absorbed world view. Close all the late night bars because apartment owners can’t tolerate the noise. Don’t do a fucking thing in public in case someone objects. We all have to live together. If you don’t like something on one night of the year, don’t try and ban it. Just accept as part of living in a genuinely tolerant world.

    /rant over/

    • Richard Rawshark 11.1

      I own three dogs, the shit I went through last night, I live in a hunting town. loads of hunting dogs around here as well. It’s not fkn right mate..

      Happy for fireworks have organized events at set times, but all fkn night for a week minimum random fireworks?

      Cus it aint one night is it.

      Yeah nah, I get pissed orf too mate, I hear what your saying but put yourself in our shoes.

      Sitting till 2 am with my stereo blaring to drown it out, when I want some sleep isn’t fun.

      • weka 11.1.1

        They seem to have gotten louder too. Having limits on how many nights, what time until etc seems reasonable, but I don’t know how you would make that fair.

        Mind you, I’ve lived in a fair few places where barking dogs are left to go on most of the day and all year 😉

    • weka 11.2

      You make some good arguments. However I think there is a difference between someone not liking something, someone having a strong belief that something is [insert judgement of choice], and someone being affected by something directly. I would put losing one’s job to immigration and not being able to sleep because of neighbourhood noise in the latter category.

      The fireworks one I’m in two minds about. I don’t like it because of the noise, the effects on animals, and because of the mess the next day that no-one letting off fireworks seems to care about. But I agree that in the greater scheme of things, it’s not a huge issue, so yeah, tolerance.

      What all that does bring up is to what extent society should allow one person to do something that negatively affects another. I’m not talking offensiveness or belief. Noise is the obvious one, a young dude riding his dirt bike round and round in a paddock for hours on end next door to a young solo mum desperate to get her baby to sleep. Where does one’s pleasure outweigh someone else’s wellbeing? Is the loss of pleasure worse than the loss of wellbeing? Society already comes down in favour of well being sometimes (noise control, dog control), but not at others (it’s hard to control traffic noise or spray drift).

      So while I agree that we are getting more intolerant, I wonder if we are also getting more badly behaved because there is this idea that we have all this freedom unless a law stops us, which then leads people to wanting more laws to control things. What happened to not being an arse on either side of the equation.

      (plus, modern society is batshit crazy and we’re not really well designed for it).

      • Richard Rawshark 11.2.1

        Nice weka.

        Tollerance..I don’t spin out start screaming at people about it, it’s a part of life every year around nov, this is what happens, they also seem louder but meh..

        Considering what it celebrates, means I wonder how many people actually know who Guy Fawkes was?

        Be nice if it went to organized events.. Two things that crossed my mind last night.

        I can’t buy bullets shot gun shells without a gun license but I could go buy 2k work of fireworks strip out the gun powder and make some mean as bomb..

        I wonder why they still allow the purchase of it today with all the terrorism threats everywhere.

        and how many kids will have to get maimed before we start thinking a little more carefully about letting people have access to gunpowder, don’t please don’t tell me there is a age limit on buying it, I haven’t the time to write the millions of ways kids get around that..brothers, sisters, searching the house and getting into mischief.

        • Sanctuary

          “…I can’t buy bullets shot gun shells without a gun license but I could go buy 2k work of fireworks strip out the gun powder and make some mean as bomb…”

          Dude, it would be a lot easier to just go on youtube to learn how to make the same amount of gunpowder for a fraction of the cost.

        • Draco T Bastard

          I can’t buy bullets shot gun shells without a gun license but I could go buy 2k work of fireworks strip out the gun powder and make some mean as bomb..

          It’s probably easier, safer and cheaper to make explosives out of the cleaners in your kitchen/laundry.

      • Sanctuary 11.2.2

        I suppose it is also a bit of a rant at the liberal mindset. It does my head in that the reaction is one of immediate intolerance. Not “we need to talk about fireworks again” or “maybe we need to think about the date of fireworks night”. Nope. The tolerant liberals of facebook all turn into nasty authoritarians the minute something actually upsets THEM, then they have the arrogance to sneer at the desperate precariat for supporting UKIP or Trump…

        I mean, I think we need to keep the glorious anarchy of publicly available fireworks. But November 5th in the UK is early winter. Here is it late spring. I would support moving the date to make it a celebration of Matariki, which is crying out for a form of celebration. Let’s move the dates for the sale of fireworks to let people use them to celebrate the Maori new year in late May or early June. That way, a) the kids get to see the crackers with having to stay up three hours after bedtime, b) it is to freaking cold for idiots to be up all night firing them off, and c) it is a lot wetter, so the fire risk drops to almost nothing.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.3

      Close all the late night bars because apartment owners can’t tolerate the noise.

      No. We should be closing late night bars because they’re bad for society.

      If you don’t like something on one night of the year, don’t try and ban it.

      But it’s not one night a year – it’s several nights a year and not just around Guy Fawks.

      And even then that’s not the reason to ban it. It’s the damage that fireworks cause that is the reason to ban it.

      And, yes, I generally opposed to immigration as well.

  11. The Chairman 12

    Worth a look

    • Rosemary McDonald 12.1

      Thanks for that TC.

      I had a completely unexpected and random email drop into my inbox a few days ago.

      I had posted in the ‘chit chat’ section of a special interest group forum about the Living Wage stoush at Selwyn Village


      The owner of the website took my post down as being inappropriate. Sexist jokes were fine. Pop up ads for Russian and Asian women promising to liven the lives of the predominantly older male users of the site were fine.

      Old people sticking up for their underpaid carers was not fine.

      Anyway… the random email from the post remover came out of a clear blue sky.

      He had been to see “I, Daniel Blake”….and could now see where I was coming from.

      If the movie can inspire such a tanker to alter course…..

    • Richard Rawshark 12.2

      Nice TC, powerful, thought provoking.

      Needs saying here as exact same thing going on..

      But unlike the UK, you cannot appeal, My Dr signed they sent me to theire one and this is what I got back..

      The psychologist recognizes I have issues with my Bi-polar, she said I can work, but I don’t have to look for work due to my issues and that only I will know what I can do how many hours and what type of work.

      The issue I have is I cannot foresee events that will cause me to lose reality.. like when a bird flies in the factory and someone start throwing things at it, I spun out lost reality and had to save the bird.. I did not foresee this, they recognized that hence there decision.. Like WTF

      So winz won’t give me a invalids.. as the psch and I have not received a copy of her report no appeal no review nothing was given to me. That was the decision.

      I don’t go there anymore for there safety, I don’t claim anything but the basic. 243 dollars I can survive..barely.

      Thanks..i had invalids, I did what you asked and tried to work and you butt fucked me winz..

      That’s exactly what that clips on about aye TC.

  12. Peroxide Blonde 13

    The Poppy
    “Why I will never wear this symbol of betrayal again
    The Entente Cordiale which sent my father to France is now trash beneath the high heels of Theresa May, yet this wretched woman dares to wear a poppy.

    Yes, the boys and girls of the BBC and ITV, and all of Britain’s lively media and sports personalities and politicians, are at it again.

    They’re flaunting their silly poppies once more to show their super-correctness in the face of history, as ignorant or forgetful as ever that their tired fashion accessory was inspired by a poem which urged the soldiers of the Great War of 1914-18 to go on killing and slaughtering.”

    A timely piece from Robert Fisk


  13. Richard Rawshark 14

    I’ll back you all the way this election Andrew and around my area, ten times more than I ever backed labour before because we cannot have 3 more years of Nationals damage.

    i’ll be out waving the labour flag, at night i’ll be drawing Nazi signs on Nationals, and in between that i’ll be dreaming of your brighter future for us all.

    Now couple points, this election do not fucking turn up on some south Auckland street if you haven’t got there consent.

    If the 69 YO in Tauranga you referenced is the lady who has to move due to her apartment/retirement home being set for demolition due to some construction, they offered her another unit, be fkn sure that does not backfire, you know what the media will do given the slightest sniff of error.

    Apart from those minor points, awesome speech loved it.

    Now, win us an election and lets get rid of this arrogant greedy lot.

    PS could you consider throwing in a investigation into the actions of the National government in it’s entirety since 2008 leaving no rock unturned. I’m talking major rectal examinations.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Sam C 14.1

      “I’ll be drawing nazi signs on nationals”. Nice touch. That’s what we really need.

    • James 14.2

      Nazi simbols. Really ? Well I guess that says more about you than anything. Your from Albania right ? mabey a cultural thing – but putting nazi simbols on another party (esp one lead by a Jewish person) is pretty piss poor form in New Zealand.

      • Richard Rawshark 14.2.1

        hey if you don’t want Nazi symbols on your national party flags , then don’t behave like Nazi’s simple stuff really james.

        PS personally I think National has plenty of money to play Dirty politics, and do,we have the foot soldiers, your lot are to stuck up to get out the Bentley on a cold night. So we are evens. 😛

        • Sam C

          What a piece of work you are.

          • Richard Rawshark

            So ignoring my smiley face. which means I’m joking, you want to get serious with me like all the others…

            go hard mate.. i’ll grab some popcorn.

            • Chess Player

              Grab some of the 500mg pills instead mate.
              Your current dosage clearly isn’t working.

              • Richard Rawshark

                well I do hope the mods ban you lot. Still ignoring the smiley face..

                i’m done with ya though. Later dick.

        • James

          Using your logic – if People think you are being a c**t for running around defacing the property of others with things like nazi simbols – then it’s ok for some people to come spray paint C**t on your property?

          As for foot soldiers- pretty sure your local labour office would be disgusted with that kind of behaviour as well.

          • Richard Rawshark

            Who’s property?

            The tax payers property

            visa vie my property?


            who pays for the election campaigns of the parties?

            PS stop being so, precious or feigning offence. idiots.

            If I was going to do that, and hadn’t been taking the piss, you fuckers have( well someone) done the same to labour ones..it happens.. so please spare me your faux horror, it’s as see through as your moral compass.

            • McFlock

              It’s more that you might think the swastika is calling the nats nazis, but anyone just seeing swastika graffitti assumes it’s done by nazis. So you’d actually be getting sympathy votes for the nats.

              Just draw ponytails everywhere

              • Richard Rawshark

                The best I saw was in the states, where a guy had put up Hillary signs with the base having 9″ nails sticking out of it, and when trump supporters went to run over her signs they all got flat tires.

                There’s a pic of these flattened signs and this dumb fuck changing his tire with the tracks in the grass clearly showing what he did.

                That would be me.. to a tee.

                • Ben

                  Retracted – you are obviously unhinged, and I’ll leave it at that.

                  • Richard Rawshark

                    ahh he swipes at my integrity and misses.

                    i take your hate and feel wonderful..


                    removes post and my soul soars.. unhinged..

                    oh the praise.

                    • mauī

                      Kia kaha RR, I saw that callous comment before it was changed. People like Ben believe some higher power decides how the workforce is setup and who is involved in it. That’s got us to a point where hundreds of thousands of people are unemployed, slave labour is part of the economy, and for the economy to run it has to be propped up by thousands of hours of volunteer labour each week.

                    • Ben

                      Not hate Richard, not even close. Trust that doesn’t take the soar out of your soul.

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      All good mate, just good banter, 🙂

    • fisiani 14.3

      Leave Richard alone. He has mentioned his CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) so be gentle. He is a laptop warrior and will not stoop to criminal damage.He is already planning his move to Albania. A criminal record would make that impossible. Defacing private property is not a joke. It is a crime.

      • Richard Rawshark 14.3.1

        seriously, you must be joking?

        • fisiani

          The joke is that defacing a National poster with a swastika actually probably increases the vote for National by the people who see the defaced sign. Decent people are rightly appalled and cast the blame on the wreckers and haters in Labour. It confirms their vote for National. So much so I’m almost tempted to deface National posters myself.

          • Richard Rawshark

            Ha, the old reverse psychology you reckon?

            Can you just see each party placing carefully there party placard, then quickly out with a thick black felt and deface it.

            OR if both parties were really on to it, we could print them pre defaced, have a series of offensive remarks.. it would be great!

            • James

              I’m beginning to guess who’s side your family were on back in Albania 1944. Based solely on your behaviour of course. sure go paint nazi simbols everywhere- do your family proud.

              In the meantime – I’ll keep thinking it’s disgusting. Not faux horror – just a genuine response to the kind of thing you are suggesting.

              And as for “my lot” doing it in prev elections – I would have the same view of them also – I hope they got caught.

              • Stuart Munro

                There has never been anything genuine about any of your responses – why start now?

                • Richard Rawshark

                  shhh he’s working up a tanty…

                  Nazi swatsikas everywhere…. I will paint every john key poster with a hitler Mo..how you feeling james….

                  • The lost sheep

                    The Nazi’s – Dismantled all Democratic institutions, murdered political opponents, committed a deliberate genocide of 11 million people, and attempted to over run the World causing 60 million deaths.

                    The National Party have been the Government for 8 years of a country which is currently ranked among the most highly developed, democratic, prosperous, peaceful, happiest, and well educated Countries in the World, and that has ever existed…

                    Richard, you obviously have some issues, but if you can’t understand how enormously inappropriate and offensive it is to draw the comparison between Nazi’s and National?….you really do need some more help or medication. You are a seriously sick puppy.

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      hey Sheep.. mint sauce!!!!

                      let me here that faux morality.

                      It will help me get over forcing mental health into work..,me!
                      who then almost killed someone.., for you because your Nazi’s who want to make the ill and infirm work.

                      then you refuse to reinstate my invalids because I fkn worked.

                      oh bring it on..MF

                      you want to act like Nazi’s i’ll call you Nazi’s if you want to help the poor, homeless and sick and mentally ill, i’ll not.

                      Till then fuck off you ARE Nazi’s.


                      suicide stats.

                      take your examples of your paradise and feed them to some fucker who’s that gullible, clown.

                      Nazi Nazi national Nazi’s

                    • The lost sheep

                      And this is the leading Left Wing Blog?

                      This? And that idiot who is fixated with animal sex?

                      FFS. Maybe the whole thing is a RW ploy to make the Left look insane.

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      ok sense, you came and joined the conversation half way through and must have gotten all uptight. i can’t help that.

                      We had a little joke, some of you started getting all, serious on it.

                      So i played you because you were all wrong and accusing me of crap, i haven’t the will to defend something i am not, accused by people who join conversations and do not understand how it’s being played out.

                      as in good morning

                      GOOOD MORNING

                      depending how you interpret each word as being said with the emotions your assuming the author to have you can easily take things the wrong way.

                      or is even using Nazi as a joke..mel brooks great example, offensive to you..?

                      get over yourselves you assumed something and are wrong..

                      NOW fuck off before i really get upset with you. and call a mod to read the passages and make a decision who was shit stirring who and making up shit accusing people of shit and generally being shits.

                    • Sam C []

                      Richard, seriously, you should stand down for a bit, Bud. This stuff is clearly getting the better of you.

                    • James []

                      Yep. I think you are going over the deep end there Richard. Calm down a little / relax.

                      Whilst discussions and disagreements are par for the course on here – it’s not nice seeing someone seriously lose the plot. And it’s not healthy for you.

                    • The lost sheep

                      A ‘Little joke’ about National being Nazi’s Rawshark?

                      My Grandad and 2 of his Brothers died to prevent the Nazi’s being our Masters.
                      Nazi’s deliberately killed 11 million people just because they were Jews or Black or Gypsies or insane.

                      Rather than give you $243 a week, they would have killed you.

                      That’s really funny eh? And you are going to ‘call the mods’ to sort me out?
                      You sound more like a Nazi than a clown to me.

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      Sheep, you haven’t a clue.

                      I’d put you to shame, but I don’t have to show my anti german fighting families history to you, you dumb cock.

                      your nothing just a piece of shit that came here to stir..

                      Tell you what, you sound real upset.

                      I live in Tokoroa come over and see me. Kulla i’m in the phone book.

                      We can exchange patriotism and I can watch you shamefully apologize and truck off back where your moral bullshit came from.

                      being a national party cock sucker who came specifically here to find someone to take his small penis anger out on.

                      And if my photos don’t change your mind we can smash it up out back.

                      PS labour AGM weekend, suddenly your all here, going mad at everything..i’ll play, that’s what you came for is it not?

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      Dear mods

                      “i’ll be out waving the labour flag, at night i’ll be drawing Nazi signs on Nationals, and in between that i’ll be dreaming of your brighter future for us all.”

                      was the start of this, I was talking about Andrews speech in direct reply to the thread poster.

                      It was tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously.

                      For half a day you fuckers have personally attacked me and my family, integrity, honor and practally or directly indeed called me a Nazi sympathizer.

                      I was ask the moderators here to review the train of events and sort it out, because I am actually really annoyed you would accuse someone of being that, over what I said in my original post to none of you.

                      This is a classic example of troll baiting.

                      I await the mods decisions.

                    • Peter Swift

                      I don’t know, but the way I look at it, if the rwnj even thinks you’re a little bit a couple of tablets short of a good nights sleep, then you must be doing something really wrong.

                      When you act like you have in this thread, you give your enemies a club to beat you and us all with and the method to divert away from the message, which makes you no friend to the left.
                      If you’re capable of inner reflection, a few hours ago would have been the time to have started.
                      Way to turn a positive from labour into a septic melon. 🙄

                    • Richard Rawshark

                      Well if i’m wrong, in your eyes fair enough. I won’t apologize though for something I didn’t intend and felt was used to wind me up over successive post.

                      I did try to play along thought they were really faking mock offence, and lost..

                      Some of my family directly died from Germans, Italians and the communists through and after the second world war.

                      So being called that did, hit a nerve.

                      I don’t forbid myself to use the word Nazi, I watched many a comedy and no one jumped up at the Nazi symbols on films. etc.

                      So that reinforces my belief that these people were baiting for kicks.

                      However I will ban myself as punishment.

                      Good day.

              • Richard Rawshark

                BTW don’t overstretch your imagination there james…

  14. Richard Rawshark 15

    Article in the Herald how Serco prisons are giving the prisoners exam answers when the grade they get on exams reflects on how much Serco gets.

    Brilliant more news to sweep under the carpet, I wonder what dead cat they can bring out this time.. Isn’t Hoskings free to say something outrageous..

    I will pee myself if that happens this week.

    and who checks charter schools bet they do the same.

    • Molly 15.1

      …”who checks charter schools bet they do the same”

      It is referred to as “teach to test”, and has been a problem with charter schools in the US. The standardised testing allows teachers to plan their lessons accordingly. As funding is often dependent on testing results – (forget about high needs students) – the primary goal of charter schools often becomes getting high results. They will refuse to accept high needs students, and will “teach to test” providing a mediocre – if not detrimental – educational environment.

      • Richard Rawshark 15.1.1

        As I suspected, this government has been the first to create a environment of legitimacy around bending the rules.

  15. weka 17

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all comments, link postings etc about the US election under the dedicated US Election Discussion Post here. – weka ]

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