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Open mike 06/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 6th, 2011 - 83 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

83 comments on “Open mike 06/12/2011”

  1. Yesterday’s politics on Radio New Zealand’s nine to noon show left me with a familiar yet unusual feeling.  John Pagani was there to represent the left and Matthew Hooton to represent the right.  I expected the usual beat up on the left and claims of extremism and for such comments to be met with a reasoned and fact based response.

    This duly occurred.  There was the claim that David Cunliffe, one of Labour’s leadership candidates, had advocated for the forced renationalisation of privatised assets.  Forced renationalisation I tell you, forced renationalisation.  This was met with the calm response that the claim was “a bit extreme”.

    What was unusual however was that Pagani was the one who made the extreme comment and Hooton was the reasoned and fact based responder.

    Pagani’s claim that Cunliffe said he will forcibly renationalise sold assets has the unfortunate feature that Cunliffe actually did not say this.  Cunliffe actually said, when asked about what he would do about privatisation, that he would not rule out renationalising some sold assets and would look hard at buying them back.

    Somehow to Pagani this means that all sold assets will be forcibly renationalised, presumably without compensation.  If you think about it you will do it.  If only.

    He then had the cheek to suggest that the commentary around this particular issue was building up.  He neglected to mention that he was the one busily constructing the theme as fast as he could do so.

    The suggestion that the support for Shearer is essentially coming from the old guard yesterday became even more credible.

    • What Cunliffe said:

      I don’t stand for a paler shade of blue, and I want to look down the barrel and say this: if the Government is going to sell off precious state assets then we would not rule out re-nationalising some of them. And people need to be aware of that regulatory risk.”

      So he started talking tough, then softened substantially. It’s difficult trying to talk to multiple audiences at the same time. And is now he seems to be fizzling out on it.

      http://yourdunedin.org/2011/12/06/labour-leadership-maneuvering/

    • Colonial Viper 1.2

      Pagani’s claim that Cunliffe said he will forcibly renationalise sold assets has the unfortunate feature that Cunliffe actually did not say this.

      🙁

  2. kriswgtn 2

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6089778/Superannuation-debate-part-of-election-deal

    “Mr Key had previously promised to resign as prime minister rather than support a change in the age of eligibility for superannuation. Yesterday he said a change of the kind proposed by UnitedFuture would not violate that pledge.””

    Guess its all in the wording aye

    • rosy 2.1

      Yeah – I can only see 3 possibles for this:
      1. The debate is a non-debate
      2. Key is going to resign
      3. A promise will be broken – probably due to a dynamic environment

    • The United Future flexible super proposal wouldn’t violate Key’s pledge, it still provides the option of the status quo plus offers choice of earlier or later uptake.

      • chris73 2.2.1

        I think Dunnes idea of superannuation is the best I’ve heard so far (if the numbers do stack up)

        • Afewknowthetruth 2.2.1.1

          chris.

          I know you ar not keen on informed analysis but for the sake of getting the truth out:

          In the past it was possible for governments of western nations to provide most people with a high standard of living because large amounts of resources (trees, oil, rubber, gold, diamonds etc.) were being stolen from poor countries (especially those in Africa, South America and Asia) while the populations of those nations lived [by western standards] in extreme poverty, coal was being dug out the ground very cheaply, and oil was coming out the ground at very low cost.

          Those arrangements gradually came to an end in the latter part of the twentieth century and the first few years of the twenty-first century, and ceased around 2008. Add to the mix the fact that global population tripled in the last half of the twentieth century, so there are now three times as many people as in 1950 chasing less resources. The numbers do not stack up and never will.

          What we have at the moment is a system of financial fraud, whereby the reality of collapse of the system is being concealed from the general public via massive amounts of borrowing which devalues all the money already in the system -hence the cost of all the basics are rising rapidly.

          Since the entire Ponzi scheme is dependent on perpetual economic growth [on a finite planet], which is a mathematical impossibility and is gringing to a halt (as it must ) , and since the entire Ponzi scheme is dependent on creating money out of thin air via the international bond market, expect all super schemes to ‘go up in smoke’ over the next few years, just as has been happening in the US recently.

          Also expect to be utterly ‘shafted’ by Dunne over the next few years.

          .

      • rosy 2.2.2

        That’s the least obvious option that I can see – for a start the administrative costs will either make super more expensive, or they’ll be clawed back. But, we’ll see I guess.

        • chris73 2.2.2.1

          Well on theory it sounds good, retire early get less or retire later get more as some people don’t want to retire at 65 so its good to let people have choice in these matters

          I’d be curious to see the numbers if everyone retired early or later as that could get interesting

          • locus 2.2.2.1.1

            i think there’s a heck of a lot more people who want to retire as early as possible.

            “Most workers in most OECD countries leave the labour market before the standard pension eligibility age.”
            http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/download/fulltext/8111011ec006.pdf?expires=1323116591&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=5E9193C181FFAB6BBB6DCD4E6F93843C

            Mind you, kiwis may not conform to the average 🙂

            • chris73 2.2.2.1.1.1

              I know I would

              • Afewknowthetruth

                chris

                Don’t forget that back in the 1980s the retrement age was 60 and many supernnuanants took two or three overseas holidays a year to prevent their bank balances getting too high.

                How times have changed as more and more resources have been consumed and converted into waste.

                If you were born in 1973 you will never receive a retirement benefit at 60, 65, 67, 70 or any other number. The present economic system will not endure beyond 2020, and many parts of it will collapse before then.

            • Puddleglum 2.2.2.1.1.2

              I think Dunne’s policy would build in further inequality into our society.

              Those able to retire early on reduced superannuation would be those who either have substantial assets or private super schemes to supplement a reduced entitlement for the rest of their lives.

              As I read it (hopefully I’m wrong), any low income worker who retired earlier would be consigned, for the rest of their lives, to a lower superannuation than someone who retired at 65 or later. Such low income workers would likely be those who, for (mental and/or physical) health reasons needed to retire sooner. Given that the present entitlement is very restrictive for those who have no other means of support, expect old age poverty to reappear in significant numbers in New Zealand.

              Typically, those low income workers still able to work would ‘choose’ to work beyond 65 in order to gain the higher rate. Yet, those same workers are less likely to live as long – and working longer at the jobs they work at may well further reduce their life expectancy.

              Overall, many bad ‘unintended’ consequences for poorer people is what I foresee. 

              • rosy

                Yes, a typical example of why UF is more at home with National than Labour. Nothing about this policy supports equitable distribution of resources. A bit like their income-splitting, it sounds oh so reasonable but the costs of the policy are superficially hidden in the end wil be borne by the less well-off.

    • It’s all dinamic environment, ain’t it!

  3. tc 3

    Can anybody enlighten me about changes to legislation being passed under WTO mandates that govern such issues as food sharing and what seed you can base your crops on.

    Keep hearing from concerned rural folk who want a simple life and not be told what to grow and what they can do with it.

    • Afewknowthetruth 3.1

      tc.

      People around here who are awake are very concerned that legislation is well on the way to being passed by [NZ] parliament. The fascists who make up the majority of MPs will facilitate the next phase of the corporate takeover of society soon.

      People will soon be getting what they voted for -more frankenfood (of low nutritional value) distributed at high cost via frankenoutlets (which transfer wealth to those who already have far too much).

      Those who don’t wish to be part of this dytopian future are keeping their heads down and getting on with what needs to be done to live healthy lives and survive the impending crash of the system.

      • AAMC 3.1.1

        Dig up your lawn, plant only orgainc seeds, save seeds from each crop and distribute both crop and seed amongst friends, plant seedlings around your neigbourhood as living urban sculptures, leave trays of seedlings where there is foot traffic with take me home and plant me signs. Lead by example, prepare for this law, defy false authority.

        Watch this clip… #occupyfood

        [lprent: Another bug to fix. ]

  4. Chris Oden 4

    Just because I could I googled Laurel and Hardy and found a clip of them from “Way out West” doing an extremely funny dance.Now I know where Key was cloned from.I forget who is who but Key is the absolute dead spit for the little one. Even the dancing is exactly like Key.Right down to the fatuous grin and the mincing walk.A must see.

    • mac1 4.1

      Oy, Chris Oden, that sequence is one of my favourite funny memories from childhood reconfirmed by the magic of Youtube- and now ruined by the thought of Stan Laurel as Key.

      Heh. Perhaps Stephen Joyce is Oliver Hardy?

  5. In Vino Veritas 5

    Thought for today:

    “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” – Winston Churchill

    • Uturn 5.1

      Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners. – Vladimir Lenin

    • millsy 5.2

      I dont recall Winston Churchill selling off the coal mines that the Atlee government nationalised.

    • joe90 5.3

      Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

      Abraham Lincoln: State of the Union Address 1861

    • locus 5.4

      Reply to thought for the day:

      IVV – you missed the beginning of the Churchill quote which was “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; ……”

      And it’s instructive that in 1945, Churchill’s anti soicialist rhetoric contributed to a landslide victory for the British Labour Party

    • Bored 5.5

      The counterpoint of envy is charity, something in pitifully short supply in the Randian psychopathy we describe as neo liberal political economy.

      That system is driven by greed, so to St Thomas Aquinas on greed…”a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things.”

    • Afewknowthetruth 5.6

      IVV

      ‘Churchill’s wry comment on the business was that he’d supposed the miners to be the most unreasonable people he had ever met, until he met the mine owners’. -British General Strike 1926.

      Life and Times of Winston Churchill

    • AAMC 5.7

      “Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class.”
      Al Capone

    • Draco T Bastard 5.8

      Oh, look at that, a Pisshead agreeing with a Pisshead.

      Capitalism is the failure and the cause of poverty. If you still “believe” in it after it just fell over again then it is you that is ignorant and wilfully so.

    • Well he would say that would he not.? After all in 1912 he wanted to shoot the striking miners.

    • Treetop 5.10

      “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” – Albert Einstein

      What would Einstein make of asset sales?

  6. Afewknowthetruth 6

    Another elephant in the room:

    ‘New Zealand homes are overvalued by 25 per cent and the country is one of nine under threat of a housing bubble burst, says the Economist.’

    http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10771182&ref=rss

    NZ does seem to have divided into two nations over recent years: Auckland, which has been turned into a gigantic speculative casiono, and the rest of the country.

    ‘New Zealand’s QV agency has found house prices nationally have dropped only 4.4 per cent below the peak in 2007, and yesterday Barfoot & Thompson released data showing the November average selling price rose by 2.5 per cent on October to $567,489, its second-highest average monthly price ever.’

    • In Vino Veritas 6.1

      25%? You won’t be too worried then Afew, your bunker in the wops won’t be under threat, though your internet connection might be. Surely you should be using carrier pigeons?

    • vto 6.2

      I struggle with that. House values today are generally below cost already. Unless the underlying land values go through the floor into subterranean territory…

      • Afewknowthetruth 6.2.1

        vto

        The last time I was in Orewa (about 6 years ago) specualtors were asking (and getting) $350,000 for fairly standard a piece of dirt to build on.

        Yes, the cost of building materials, labour and compliance costs have pushed the cost of new housing beyond what can be regarded as sane.

        However, Auckland is in a fairly unique position of attracting economic and environmental refugees from overseas and is not a sane place. The huge pressure for accommodation is totally skewing everything.

        In Taranaki things are failry stable. In the Manawatu things are looking pretty dire from what I have heard. In Canterbury there is huge demand within commuting distance of Christchurch, but beyond that things are fairly dire (falling prices) from what I have heard

        Because Auckland and Christchurch together make up such a huge portion of national statistics and because the A + C markest are so skewed at the moment weird things are happening.

  7. uke 7

    Isn’t it interesting how, after months of refusing to appear on RNZ, PM Key seems to be popping up every morning for a chat?

    • Afewknowthetruth 7.1

      uke

      I wouldn’t know. I gave up listening to the propaganda NR churns out years ago. It’s very bad for one’s mental health.

      Bill English used have entertainment value because what he said was so ludicrous, but now that he is in power and digging NZ into an ever deeper hole he’s not funny anymore.

      • uke 7.1.1

        AFKTT: I agree. In the past I have stopped listening to RNZ for long spells  but tend to drift back. It’s not nearly so mentally harmful as TV, which we gave away completely in our household about three years ago. That helped a lot. Recently we viewed a DVD which had some of the latest advertisements on it. That was a shock. Until you stop watching those things every day, you don’t realise how overbearing and aggressive they are. I think it was Frank Zappa who termed TV ads “the dreamtime of a capitalist society”.
         
        BTW, in your setup that you have designed to withstand looming socio-economic collapse, how are you going to contend with the inevitable gate-crashers who turn up wanting the fruits of your garden?

        • Afewknowthetruth 7.1.1.1

          uke.

          That is a commonly discussed topic here:

          http://guymcpherson.com/

          I have a theory that society is now so dumbed-down that when ‘the shit hits the fan’ a large portion of society (especially those living in big cities) will sit in front of their television sets and wait for the government or the council to save them. They are literally addicted to nonsense.

        • Tiger Mountain 7.1.1.2

          Well there could be a lot of gate crashers if you factor in the paltry number of days foodstocks held by major ‘just in time’ retailers in cities and towns. Civil defence know this stuff. Idiot consumers don’t.

          I actually feel lucky to live in the Far North with 10,000 litres of rain water in tanks, vege garden, gas or wood for cooking if power goes out and I am not even an eco warrior. In a serious breakdown hungry city folks or even non farming rural folks seeking kai will get the hunting guns turned on them and the farmers will keep the meat.

          AFKTT makes some good points, just the posts are a little long sometimes.

  8. s y d 8

    what is going on here….more chump change maybe, or maybe just gifting assets now?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/93038/whirinaki-sold-to-contact

    http://tvnz.co.nz/content/428631/2556418.xhtml

  9. joe90 9

    Why this country continues to support the incumbent regime is beyond me.

    Afghanistan’s women languishing in prisons 10 years after fall of Taliban

    Figures disclosed to The Daily Telegraph show that half of the country’s jailed women — about 350 — have been sentenced for “moral crimes”. For girls aged 12 to 18 in prison, the figure rises to four-fifths.

    The latest United Nations figures estimate that the women’s prison population has risen to 600, up from 380 two years ago.

    A further 114 girls aged 12 to 18 are locked up, of which 80 per cent are serving sentences for either running away from home or extramarital sex, an Afghan justice official said

  10. David 10

    Ok, so let’s have a debate about Labour’s economic policy, who fronts it from here, and the relationship with the leader and (looks like) his office.

    There is a real opportunity here and NOW for us to present a coherent alternative economic policy to the friendly, ‘inclusive’ neoliberalism that has run things here for the last 15 or so years. The GFC, the housing bubbles and private debt blowout, questions of whether ownership of revenue and profit producing assets and companies really matters or not, economic geography and how a small place like ours copes with increasing scale returns that would see all regional head offices in Melbourne or Sydney, monetary policy and how to actually enable exports, building something new on the back of primary production, dealing with inequalities and the labour market, how to deal with fundmanagers who via Kiwisaver will run much of the nations savings, deal with the housing market which has probably done more than anything else to contribute to rising child poverty (rising real rents) and suck money out of productive investments, deal with the utilities ‘market’ which ditto has added vast amounts of household outgoings, deal with duopoly in supermarkets, deal with the sugar lobby who have stymieed public health reform, deal with strategic national investment coming out from from the Cullen and other sovereign wealth funds, deal with regulating Aussie banks and building KiwiBank and Kiwisafe and govt Kiwisaver into …. and plenty more.

    We had the large bits of this going into the last election: but for whatever reason (I have my suspicions) we didnt stitch it together into a coherent narrative people could get. We didnt sell it as a story, because I think ultimately leadership and campaign strategy didnt really see or believe it was a compelling alternative economic narrative. Was this because they were lite blue? Not sure that is the whole story. But i couldnt honestly rule it out. Was it because they lacked an overall political economic analytic framework within which the real dimensions of a real alternative would become clear? Yes. Was it because they were driven by fragmented polling questions not framed against an overall analytic framing? yes. was it because this left them in reactionary and negative mode, mainly opposing things, rather than looking forward to and projecting a vision what the economy etc might be ? yes.

    Now, what next for labour economic policy wise: you could sit and wait for Treasury to offer some strategic social democratically oriented advice in one or two of these areas. Ok sorry back the question. You could formulate policy at arms length from leadership, but risk they dont get the overall narrative and analysis and cant plausibly and personally sell it effectively as an alternative (but will bust off and poll against bits of it like ‘no GST on food’ and throw that out there like a fizzing firecracker). You could trust this to smart people like Parker and Jones who have some great ideas and some balls, but from what I have seen, forgive me guys not the bigger overall vision and expertise/ confidence in dealing with things like Telecom, etc. Or you could have the best closest relationship possible (after some lumps are sorted) between a brilliant overall economic strategist and an emerging political maestro: a kind of Clark Cullen for the 6th Labour government.

    I know what i would like to see. But I am on the outside, and maybe there is something here no-one is telling me.

    meantime I wonder: can David Shearer really lead the nation on this stuff? David Parker? even Grant? not so sure…. Should we let them have a go and see how we get on?? Hmm.

    And without getting this economic vision etc right, there just arent going to be $$ for dealing with the fruits of 6 years of Nats: funding public schools and hospitals to the point where they can compete with / offer comparable standards to the charter schools and private hospitals the Nats will have subsidised and moved into ‘mainstream’ education. The money to do serious social housing, which is what the kids freezing in one room of an uninsulated state house mum cant afford to heat need. and I could go on.

    For god’s sake let’s make the most of the team we have, and make sure it’s lead by someone who really can lead when it comes to policy, presenting it, defending it, and getting the better of the nats and Key on it. .

    • Afewknowthetruth 10.1

      David

      It would make a lot of sense to start from scratch. However, that will not happen because of the psychology of previous investment. And ego. There are far too many people in Labour who would have to admit they’ve been barking up the wrong tree for decades. They just will not do that.

      The most important lesson of history is that the lessons of history are not learned.

      Political parties rarely reform themselves. They normally keep banging away with whatever they’ve always done until they can’t.

      Humanity is on the cusp of the greatest discontininuity in all of history and most Labour MPs:

      1. don’t know

      2. don’t want to know.

      3. are in denial

      4. are too cowardly to speak the truth.

      • David 10.1.1

        Thanks afkt: I have heard your wise voice before, I think. I do think though think there are some people who will listen to this kind of analysis, and I intend to make sure they hear it. Value any further guidance, as ever. would like to hear/ see your version of this.

        Glad, though, we are all having some of this debate!! It’s a breath of fresh air.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2

        There are far too many people in Labour who would have to admit they’ve been barking up the wrong tree for decades. They just will not do that.

        Agreed. I see passion and willingness to help eradicate some of the imbalances caused by capitalism but they won’t accept that capitalism and the profit driven free-market is the problem. Because of this they’re stuck in the mindset of helping business grow.

  11. Jackal 11

    New Zealand ripped off

    Being that National has managed to more than double our total government debt, could somebody please explain why they’re borrowing so heavily?

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      The article I linked to in comment 12 tells you.

      • Jackal 11.1.1

        Thanks DTB. I particularly like this bit though:

        The failure to take the wishes of voters into consideration leaves the resulting national debts on shaky ground politically and even legally. Debts imposed by fiat, by governments or foreign financial agencies in the face of strong popular opposition may be as tenuous as those of the Habsburgs and other despots in past epochs. Lacking popular validation, they may die with the regime that contracted them. New governments may act democratically to subordinate the banking and financial sector to serve the economy, not the other way around.

        One can only hope. Interesting read but not specific to National’s borrowing regime. Even accounting for the global recession, downturn and Christchurch earthquakes, I don’t see how National is managing to borrow so much?

  12. Draco T Bastard 12

    Democracy and Debt

    This is turning international finance into a new mode of warfare. Its objective is the same as military conquest in times past: to appropriate land and mineral resources, communal infrastructure and extract tribute.

    Among Rome’s leading historians, Livy, Plutarch and Diodorus blamed the fall of the Republic on creditor intransigence in waging the century-long Social War marked by political murder from 133 to 29 BC. Populist leaders sought to gain a following by advocating debt cancellations (e.g., the Catiline conspiracy in 63-62 BC). They were killed. By the second century AD about a quarter of the population was reduced to bondage. By the fifth century Rome’s economy collapsed, stripped of money. Subsistence life reverted to the countryside as a Dark Age descended.

    Seems that debt being used to accumulate communal land and rent has been around for some time and it brought about the same problems then as it does now – poverty, war and the collapse of the economy.

    • Afewknowthetruth 12.1

      DTB

      Yes, the money system and debt was one of many factors that led to the collapse of the Roman Empire.

      Other factors were the ‘drying up’ of readily obtainable loot (the army was at its best when the treasure stolen from newly colonised lands could be used to pay for conquest), environmental destruction, poor farming practices.

      It’s always easier to build an empire than keep it.

      Every empire that ever emerged collapsed.

      The present global industrial-financial empire will be one of the most short-lived of all empires.

      • McFlock 12.1.1

        DTB was talking the roman republic, not empire. Republic fell, triumvirate/triumvirate/Augustus.

        • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1

          Actually, I was talking general history. Capitalism has been a failure for the last 5000 years and the reason is because a few people charge rent/interest in such a way as to accumulate all the wealth in a few hands which eventually trashes the economy. Combined with the mismanagement of resources due to the resultant dictatorship brings about the collapse of the civilisation/empire. The same thing is happening to the present globalised economy.

          • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1

            whoops, missed the second half of the paragraph. My bad.
            I think the credit issue is especially relevant at the moment, because the immediate aftermath in rome was civil war and dictatorship. The resource-related collapse might or might not happen on the same timescale, but uk, greece etc tend to suggest anarchy then dictatorship is a possibility.

    • Bored 12.2

      Athens had a similar problem: Solon cancelled debt leading to the golden age. They are still doing it, expect default any time soon.

  13. In Vino Veritas 13

    I note that Maersk have pulled out from Ports of Auckland, costing nearly $20m in revenue. When the final washup is done, and jobs have been lost, there’ll be some port workers who will be wondering why they went on strike, since it’s unlikely they’ll be able to get another $91K job. Well done the Maritime Union, thats looking after your constituents.

    • Bored 13.1

      Yeah right VV, great press, means fuck all. Its posturing, the buggers will always go where they can to get the best deals. Wager they will be back next week.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      I see you’re missing facts again. Maersk shifted ports because they’d been wooed to another port.

      • Ianupnorth 13.2.1

        IVV did you ever managed to get a wage slip from one of those wharfies? Remember, they are claiming they get $13 per hour, which as I pointed out to you, means they’d need to work about 20 hours per day. Unlike the CEO who reportedly gets $3000 per day.

        • McFlock 13.2.1.1

          yup – the tyranny of averages. The “Average Wage” for a “wharfie” depends entirely on who you count as a “wharfie” – supervisor? Manager? CEO?

          • Tiger Mountain 13.2.1.1.1

            eff off IVV, it is such a classic corporate bait and switch move, if the Tauranga and Auckland port companies were amalgamated, competition removed, game over. Cargo would go to the best location.

            Workers are never right in a market scenario. But, workers who organise at least get a chance of dignity, better wages and kicking against the pricks.

          • In Vino Veritas 13.2.1.1.2

            McFlock, the Herald reported that the average wage for a full time stevedore at POA is $91480. I’m sure you’ll concede that the CEO wouldnt be counted as a stevedore.

            Further to that, 53% of full time stevedores (123 indviduals) earn over $80,000, with 28% (23 individuals) earning over $100,000. Plus they receive other benefits, including 5 weeks holiday and health insurance for themselves AND their families, amongst other things.

            Guess what McFlock? These guys are the rich pricks you and your ilk constantly rail against! Ironic, isnt it?

            Then there’s the crane drivers and deck foremen who work on average 5.33 hours for every 8 hours paid and straddle drivers who work an average 6 hours for every 8 paid . So, using Upnorths $13 per hour (if it were so), they are actually getting $19.52 for cranies and deck foremen, and $17.34 for straddle drivers.

            Then there’s the most probable reason for the lock out. Union thinking it was being clever, strikes Friday and Monday, with workers available Saturday and Sunday. Of course, all the shipping due diverts to other ports, meaning our erstwhile port workers get two days of sitting round on their arse getting paid.

            • McFlock 13.2.1.1.2.1

              How many hours do they work? Does that include overtime for working stat holidays or night shifts? Does that include the wages for supervisory staff? Are there two tiers of staff, casual staff waiting for a cellphone call to see if they’re needed vs fulltime?
                
              Lastly, get over yourself – it’s not wealth that I find repugnant, it’s wealth accrued without work. Hereditary wealth, proceeds of gambling with other people’s money, monopoly exploitation, rent farming – that sort of thing.
                
               

        • Jackal 13.2.1.2

          Cathy Odgers lost credibility when she claimed the wharfies are “rich pricks“. Mind you she never had any credibility to begin with… so I guess it doesn’t really matter.

  14. Jackal 14

    Propaganda to discredit strike

    The ports of Auckland strike has certainly brought out the worst in some people, particularly the usual right wing bloggers that wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them on the arse. What they’re ignoring is that the proposal for shipping giant Maersk to move its operations to Port Tauranga has been around since August 2006…

  15. Afewknowthetruth 15

    David.

    ‘Value any further guidance, as ever. would like to hear/ see your version of this.’

    I can only suggest you read this.

    http://www.publishme.co.nz/shop/theeasyway-p-684.html

    Practically everything you need to know is there.

    Available by inter-library loan if you genuinely cannot afford $20.

  16. Bored 16

    Mentioned Randian psychopathy earlier. Just listened to some idiot over lunch (names not given) who honestly thought that we could cure any issue through the market…by rational selfishness aka greed, self interest. Rather than just crucify the bastard in an honest bit of charity to my fellow citizens I thought about what was said.

    Then I got really angry because I could envisage the antisocial construct that is “rational positivism” excluding any hint of charity except for selfish reasons. Or the doing of good for the reason that it was good regardless of any negative impact oneself. Or of pure altruism…in effect the selfish rationalism that underpins our current commercial and political construct is rotten to the core and can not be reformed. Which is why we should not trust “Blue Greens”……or banksters.

    • joe90 16.1

      Uber-randian Ron Paul defends the 99%: In many ways, it’s a very healthy movement.

    • Afewknowthetruth 16.2

      Bored.

      Randian psychopathy very much embraces the cult of technofundamentalism I mentioned earluer. To such people everything has an engineering solution and there are no limits.

      Earth overheating? -we’ll just put mirrors into orbit to reflect sunlight.

      Overpopulation a problem? -we’ll just build underwater cities.

      Earth runniing out of resources? -we’ll just mine Mars and Venus and bring back what we need.

      I must go. I need to replace the trilithium crystals in my warp drive.

      .

  17. logie97 18

    So Pete Dunne retains the Family whatsit. Who will it be as it is now down to one? Given that Christine Rankin was seconded without a job description, will she be the chosen one for this undefined role or is she now history?

  18. joe90 19

    Twelve heartbreaking facts I reckon.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus

    9. Barbra Streisand has sold more records (140 million) than Pearl Jam, Johnny Cash, and Tom Petty combined

  19. logie97 20

    John Armstrong in the Herald today

    Quote… John Banks is nobody’s poodle. No poodle could have won the gains Banks has secured in return for Act guaranteeing National its support. …unquote

    Nah Armstrong, you just didn’t do your job leading up to the election. Banks is just articulating the National Party’s hidden agenda. And if it turns to custard, Key can blame ACT.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10771213

  20. Georgecom 21

    Today I have come to the conclusion that we have a celebrity PM. That is, a PM famous for being famous rather than for what he has done. He is the political expression of the 21st century consumerist popular culture. The Kim Kardashian of NZ politics.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

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  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
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    3 hours ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
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    5 hours ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
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    7 hours ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
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    8 hours ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
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    8 hours ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter has received the report back from a surgical mesh restorative justice process undertaken by Victoria University. The process heard stories, either in person or online submission, from more than 600 people affected by surgical mesh. “The report made for heart-breaking and confronting reading,” says ...
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    9 hours ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
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    10 hours ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
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    10 hours ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
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    11 hours ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
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    1 day ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
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    1 day ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
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    1 day ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
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    1 day ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
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    1 day ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
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    1 day ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
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    1 day ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
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    1 day ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
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    1 day ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
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    2 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
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    2 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
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    2 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
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    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
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    3 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
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    3 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
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    3 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
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    3 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
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    3 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
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    4 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
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    4 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
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    4 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
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    5 days ago
  • Speech to Government Economics Network 2019 Conference
    I want to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our national life: the housing crisis and the poor performance of our cities. The argument I want to make to you is that generations of urban land use policy have lacked a decent grounding in economics. The consequences ...
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    5 days ago
  • DHB leadership renewed and strengthened
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says new appointments to DHBs represent a significant changing of the guard, with 13 new chairs including four Māori chairs. Today 76 appointments have been announced to complement elected board members, as well as eight elected members appointed as either chair or deputy chair.  Four ...
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    6 days ago
  • Tabuteau to advance New Zealand’s trade and political interests with European partners
    Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Fletcher Tabuteau, is travelling to Germany, Poland, Austria, and Spain next week to bolster New Zealand’s political and trade relationships in Europe. While in Spain, Mr Tabuteau will represent New Zealand at the 14th Asia-Europe (ASEM) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Madrid. “New Zealand strongly supports ...
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    6 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Kris Faafoi
    “I’ve spoken to Minister Faafoi, who has apologised for his poor handling of this issue,” Jacinda Ardern said. “I have confidence in Kris as a hardworking and effective Minister, but this should have been dealt with in a much clearer manner, and I’ve made my views on that very clear ...
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    6 days ago
  • Tonga-New Zealand Joint Ministerial Forum
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters met with Tongan Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pohiva Tu'i'onetoa in Wellington today. The pair signed a Statement of Partnership setting out joint priorities for cooperation out to 2023.  “We welcomed Prime Minister Tu'i'onetoa on his first visit to New Zealand as Prime Minister. Tonga ...
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    6 days ago
  • Shooting in Kurow
    The Minister of Police Stuart Nash says his sympathies are with the family of a man who died after being shot by Police in Kurow. “Initial reports are that Police were called by a family member to help the man who was threatening to harm himself,” Mr Nash says. “However ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago