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Open mike 06/12/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, December 6th, 2014 - 142 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

John-Key-leather-chair-DimPost.wordpress.com_Open mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

142 comments on “Open mike 06/12/2014”

  1. millsy 2

    I see Christchurch has caved into the constant badgering by those who are kept awake at night by the thought of city councils owning ports, airports and electricity networks.

    Meanwhile, in the socialist worker’s paradise of far left Austin, Texas, its publicly owned electricity network happily exists.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1


      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        heard of copy/paste/google..?

        ..using..i dunno..’Austin, Texas, its publicly owned electricity network’..?



        • Draco T Bastard

          I’ve heard of, and used, lots of things but that has bearing on the fact that millsy left an essentially meaningless comment which could have easily been improved by providing a couple of links so that people would know WTF he was talking about.

          • phillip ure

            i knew ‘what the fuck he was talking about’..

            ..(what exactly didn’t you understand about that basic statement of fact..?..)

            ..and if i wanted more..it was at my fingertips..

            ..just accept that sometimes people have general knowledge..

            ..and if questioning/challenging..do yr own research..

            ..you are like that bloody alan..constantly bleating for ‘links’..

            ..when he hears something new/he doesn’t understand..

            ..which..face it..is quite a bit of stuff…

          • millsy

            My point was that if the Houston city council, which is slap bang in the middle of a hard right area in the US can hold onto its power network. Then CHC should.

            • Draco T Bastard

              I was more interested in what brought about your first sentence.

              I also believe that electricity should be a non-profit public service and that all societies can provide such.

              • Once Was Tim

                Indeed! Not unlike water, and shit pipes – in the interests of a common good and their health and well-being – ‘cos there ain’t a gated community I’ve come across so far that’s able to prevent what’s inevitable when water, electricity, shit-reticulation (and probably in the not-too-distant-future, the basic means of communication) become unaffordable and ‘a privllege’. Let ’em try tho’ eh? Draco the T.
                Not much gets learned from history it seems – no lessons, let alone Soimun Brudgizz type ‘learnings’

              • millsy

                I agree. But the voices who think electricity should be privately owned and delivered, and they are doing most of the screaming.

                Christchurch is one of only a handful of councils to hang onto its electricity network — others being Dunedin, Invercargill, Waitaki and Ashburton. Whanganui is the only council to hang onto its gas network.

                At this date, all the EDB’s in the South Island are publicly owned, whether it be by local authorities or consumer trusts.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  But the voices who think electricity should be privately owned and delivered, and they are doing most of the screaming.

                  Of course they are – they see another way to become even bigger bludgers on the rest of us.

        • David H

          Good one Phil, sit there spouting about everyone should Google all sorts of things.

          And, then, uses.


          heard of copy/paste/google..?

          ..using..i dunno..’Austin, Texas, its publicly owned electricity network’..?




    • aerobubble 2.2

      National and Packer soaked Chch in future irrevocable spending, just as National gave residency to those with a million wanting to invest bringing us Dotcom and large numbers of buyers of built houses exasperating the already supply housing hell.
      It was National that forgot to replace mine inspectors and preached the virtue of industries not needing regulations. But hey we are racists now so cant complain.
      Then there were the israeli spies, that weren’t, classic turd blossum, never surprise the audience when concocting turds, israel had previously being abusing our passport system. So magic the hero Israeli who died trying to save people from the earthquake, who turns outs not t have been a spy.

      Just think about that. Sis had no evidence, so why brief the PM, so when the issue comes up Goff asks for the briefing. Key dutify, NOT, gets Sis to give him it, no, he doesn’t. Key instead uses the issue to undermine our democracy leaving every opposition leader well aware that should they wish to hold the govt to account on issues of national security the PM can make them look stupid or worse lying.
      Key needs to explain how he thinks using the SIS as he did to undermine the leader of the opposition was okay. Yet he does not, and the turds keep coming.

    • Murray Rawshark 2.3

      Austin is the capital of the state and due to the influence of the University of Texas at Austin and a number of others, is a socialist paradise compared to the rest of Texas.

  2. Pat O'Dea 3

    Why do political leaders and activists who freely acknowledge the reality of climate change refuse to do anything about it and even attack those who try?

    Maybe psychoanalysis has the answer:


    “For at least a century, psychoanalysis has taught us that we might be consciously thinking and saying one thing, but unconsciously doing another. In this context, that means people are very aware of the threats posed by climate change, even if they aren’t doing too much about it….

    ….Research suggests that such threats lead us to adopt various unconscious coping and defense mechanisms.

    Many people try to keep the catastrophe at bay or deny it is happening.

    …..Research also has shown that “people want to protect themselves a little bit,” particularly in times of crisis and uncertainty. If climate change simply isn’t happening, there’s nothing to worry about.

    Another popular coping and defense mechanism is to pretend that we can address this global and urgent problem by tinkering at the edges of “business as usual.” For example, politicians and business leaders widely believe that we can achieve a decarbonization of the global economy while maintaining high economic growth. Social psychologist Matthew Adams says such a response is part of an unconscious coping mechanism that simply implies that we have pushed the problem onto a distant future.

    In psychosocial theory, these defense mechanisms also are referred to as “splitting.” Consciously we might be talking about the impending sustainability crisis, but unconsciously we find ways to maintain the status quo.

    • “..Why do political leaders and activists who freely acknowledge the reality of climate change refuse to do anything about it and even attack those who try?..”

      what that brings to mind is those who handwring over this…

      ..and then sit down to eat an animal..

      ..all the while sneering at vegans..

      ..the facts of the matter are..if we all stopped eating animals…

      ..and mowing our lawns..(and that’s another..maybe surprising to most..story..)

      ..much/most of our climatechange issues wd disappear..

      ..it’s as simple as that..

      ..our eating animals..

      .. (and insisting on number one haircuts for our lawns..)

      ..is killing the planet..

      ..and condemming us to possible extinction..

      ..and definite dystopia..

      • b waghorn 3.1.1

        What a load of shit China isn’t putting up factory after factory powered buy coal to produce none vegan food .

        • phillip ure

          wtf are u trying to say..?

          ..and what has it got to do with what i said..?

          • b waghorn

            You stated that ‘if we stop eating animals ‘ ‘much most of our climate change issues WD disappear’ and I say that’s a load of shit because big industry and cars and humans throw away mentality causes far more problems than cows farting and people mowing the lawn.

            • phillip ure

              the actual numbers contradict you..

              ..and yr business model is fucked..

              ..i’d stick the for sale sign out if i were you..

              ..go and buy a motel..

              (..corral/herd people around instead,.)

              ..but not to close to the coast..eh..?

              ..y’know..!..the ocean rise from those ‘farts’..

              ..and those ‘farts’ aren’t the half of it..are they..?

              • and re lawn-mowing..the lawn-mower..pound for pound..is one of the most polluting machines on the planet..

                ,,and how many of them are fired up each/every week..?

                ..once again..do the math..

                ..and for why..?..aside from conformity..?

                ..(must have number one lawns..the neighbours will talk otherwise..)

                • Hami Shearlie

                  Unless of course you use a fantastic Al-Ko german hand-mower – then everything is tickety-boo – and it really makes a beautiful job of the lawns!!

                • The Al1en

                  “and re lawn-mowing..the lawn-mower..pound for pound..is one of the most polluting machines on the planet..”

                  Your computer

                • b waghorn

                  Don’t know what the trust I work for would think of me selling there farm. As for lawns I’m not a big fan of them any bigger than a bit for the kids and in my case to stop the cows leaning on the house.

                • David H

                  “and re lawn-mowing..the lawn-mower..pound for pound..is one of the most polluting machines on the planet..”

                  To say nothing about the most abused machines on the planet

              • Murray Rawshark

                That’s the sort of claim that needs some evidence: “the actual numbers contradict you”

                Should I google numbers, you, or contradict?

            • batweka

              Don’t bother waghorn. Phil is ideologically blind so anything that doesn’t fit his worldview of veganism saving the planet will be munched up in the irrational machine.

              When the shit really hits the fan, most complete vegans will discover just how much their diet is supported by oil, agribusiness and the industrial military complex. Some will be ok, but most will find it extremely difficult to live when they no longer have their oil support agriculture shipping food around the world to them.

              And of course his figures are wrong, because he can’t count outside of vegan maths.

              • The Al1en

                When they have to eat their pets or starve will be the kicker.

                Waste away or chow down on Fido and Jasper. What would you do?
                Enough tomato sauce on and anything tastes good, except tofu and quorn, which still taste like sh1t regardless.

                • b waghorn

                  I reckon 3 days with out food and it wouldn’t only be the pets in danger in a big city. Yum yum long pig

                • batweka

                  That might be a bit harsh Al1en. We’d be into Alive territory then. By that stage everyone’s ethics would be pushed to the brink of collapse.

                  Pets though, yeah. I think the challenge will hit vegans hardest first when they realise they can’t feed their pets. We would see people putting their pets down and burying them long before people were at the point of starving and having to decide whether to eat them or not.

                  • The Al1en

                    What does that say about the morals and ethics of animal lovers if they’d kill their animals to prevent a starving Human from eating them?

                    • batweka

                      Who said they would kill their pets so they couldn’t be eaten? You got the timeframe wrong. People would have to kill starving pets way ahead of themselves and their family/neighbours being on death’s door. Unless it’s a very fast collapse in which case this conversation is moot.

                      But let’s say you are right, I’d probably not let my pets be eaten if it was just because the other people around me were so afraid of death and so lacking in responsiblity for their actions and the actions of their species that they thought eating a cat was going to make any kind of difference (if we are reduced to eating our pets, we’re not long for this life. There’s no cavalry on the way). I’d probably prefer to give the fertility boost to a tree.

                      Extreme allegiance to our species at the expense of others, as if the others were of no consequence, is what got us into this situation in the first place. Another good reason to limit animal testing until we grow the fuck up as a species.

                    • Chooky

                      For a true story of people eating people to survive i would recommend the film and book ‘Alive’…the book was recommended by Graham Greene…and the film is just as good …amazing in fact!



                    • The Al1en

                      “Who said they would kill their pets so they couldn’t be eaten?”

                      “Pets though, yeah. I think the challenge will hit vegans hardest first when they realise they can’t feed their pets. We would see people putting their pets down and burying them long before people were at the point of starving and having to decide whether to eat them or not.”

                      If I interpreted that incorrectly, no matter, it was a touch tongue in cheek, though having said that, point about who values animals over humans is still valid.

                      Not sure choosing people over pets is “Extreme allegiance to our species at the expense of others”, but come the end of the world, the weak will go first just like always. It’s nature.

                    • batweka

                      It’s not about valuing pets over humans, it’s about understanding humans as part of nature. Obviously we will generally prioritise our own species, in the same way that people prioritise the wellbeing of their family and loved ones over those they don’t know. But the big mistake has been in thinking that we are separate from the rest of nature (or the rest of humanity). Even for those people that really don’t give a shit about nature, this is a big mistake because we are completely and utterly dependent on our environment. Chickens coming home to roost.

                      We put ourselves and the rest of nature in this situation, ’bout time we took some responsibility. Thinking we can keep shitting in nature won’t wash anymore.

                    • Tracey

                      Do you have any pets?

                    • The Al1en

                      I’m all for protecting nature and the environment and have for a long time and your rational observation into the human condition isn’t wasted on me.
                      However, in the context of “When they have to eat their pets or starve will be the kicker”, it’s survival of the fittest like it always has been.

                      Obviously I’m glad Lions and Tigers aren’t native to NZ.

                    • The Al1en

                      “Do you have any pets?”

                      At present a cat lets us live with him and in the past, like a lot of people, I’ve owned and lovingly cared for many pets.

                      Have I gone without on a Monday night, spending my last dollars to buy cat food before the dole use to get paid, yes. Would I eat him to not starve to death myself, absolutely.

                      Slightly different angle, but I find it an obscenity that some pampered pets eat better food and receive better health care than some children in NZ.
                      Priorities, ethics and morals.

                    • The Al1en

                      “For a true story of people eating people to survive i would recommend the film and book ‘Alive’”

                      Put me right off flying after watching the movie trailer where the seats fall out the back of the plane.

                    • batweka

                      “However, in the context of “When they have to eat their pets or starve will be the kicker”, it’s survival of the fittest like it always has been.”

                      “Have I gone without on a Monday night, spending my last dollars to buy cat food before the dole use to get paid, yes. Would I eat him to not starve to death myself, absolutely.

                      Slightly different angle, but I find it an obscenity that some pampered pets eat better food and receive better health care than some children in NZ.
                      Priorities, ethics and morals.”

                      I’m a bit confused. Are you saying that allowing someone to eat a pet to prevent death of the human is the more ethical path? Or are you saying that that’s what people will do anyway (eat pets), a la survival of the fittest? They’re not compatible statements.

                      (btw, ‘survival of the fittest’ doesn’t mean survival of the strongest. It means the species that best fits in its environment is the one that lives to breed and continue on its evolutionary path. Cat eating may or may not be the best fit strategy for humans).

                    • batweka

                      “Put me right off flying after watching the movie trailer where the seats fall out the back of the plane”

                      Did you ever watch the whole thing? Put me right off movie watching 😉 (the first twenty minutes of the film is all about the actual crash).

                    • The Al1en

                      “I’m a bit confused. Are you saying that allowing someone to eat a pet to prevent death of the human is the more ethical path?”


                      “Or are you saying that that’s what people will do anyway (eat pets), a la survival of the fittest?”


                      “They’re not compatible statements.”

                      But coincidently get the same answer

                      “Did you ever watch the whole thing? Put me right off movie watching 😉 (the first twenty minutes of the film is all about the actual crash).”

                      Nope, gave it a miss completely.
                      Haven’t been on a cruise liner either after seeing a clip of Titanic – The risk of bumping into Kate Winslet is far too great a risk.

                    • batweka

                      you obviously have more sense than I, because I watched both Titanic and Alive. Not any more though, disaster movies are off limits.

                      ““They’re not compatible statements.”

                      But coincidently get the same answer”

                      Quite the opposite but I suppose it depends on which question you are asking.

  3. Ad 4

    Auckland Council and Christchurch Council make for interesting comparison:

    – Christchurch workshops in Confidential session about selling part of an asset to pay for its part of rebuild, and the first leak in the Christchurch Daily Press this morning is about sensibly delaying rebuilding the stadium

    – Auckland Council workshops for multiple sessions over eight months, still can’t get the auditor-general to agree to the draft going to the public, and its own key project is therefore delayed, and this is announced as noisily as possible in the NZHerald.

    Christchurch Council seems to have better internal discipline, and far better media management.

    If Auckland Council makes too many slip ups, Central Government will send “advisors” in to “help” faster than you can blink. After that it’s all on.

  4. Morrissey 5

    Bad guy on the ropes

    Right now on Al Jazeera (Freeview Channel 16) one of the real villains in the world, Otto Reich, is being eaten alive on the Head to Head program.

    It’s being repeated at one o’clock tomorrow morning.

    • tc 5.1

      That channel only exists on UHF freeview, cant get it on the satellite freeview so its a 2 tier service.

      Digital tv in nz is a joke it breaks up in poor weather and thanks to das sky we no longer can access abc and sbs which made it worth the dish and box.

      • Murray Rawshark 5.1.1

        When we first got digital in Australia it was pretty disgusting. After a year or two they seem to have fixed the problems. The ratings season has just finished, so now we’re getting a lot of good Kiwi stuff on tv.

      • Ron 5.1.2

        Part of the reason for poor reception of Digital Satellite is that so many people use the small sky dish for reception. I understood that these were originally a reject from Australian Sky that NZ Sky purchased cheap. If you get a decent size dish say 90cm you should get a decent signal and picture.

      • Ron 5.1.3

        You can still get Australian TV on Satellite as well as BBC. It was moved to IS19 satellite which is circular polarisation. It is also low on horizon so get a decent size dish 90cm or bigger and get a circular polarised LNB and you will have both channels

        Digital tv in nz is a joke it breaks up in poor weather and thanks to das sky we no longer can access abc and sbs which made it worth the dish and box.

  5. Clemgeopin 6

    Good move from Labour.

    Andrew Little has been praised by business leaders.

    Details here:


    • Skinny 6.1

      Little has stepped into the Labour Leaders role seamlessly, and given the New Zealand public a stark contrast in transparency & honesty to Crap Happy Key. Well done Andrew!

  6. Saarbo 7

    The outstanding Tom Scott @peace is on Kim Hill, worth a listen too. (fyi)

  7. greywarshark 8

    That image of Key on this post reminds me of the ones of Gordon Gecko.

    There was an interesting discussion about economics and money and corporates and all the usual suspects on Radionz this morning. All the information that pours out about the world economy and it is still a shock to hear stats. How many corporates are in the list of the world’s biggest economies. There were 51 corporates up with the tops.
    9:05 Jane Gleeson-White
    Australian writer Jane Gleeson-White has degrees in economics and literature and is the author of the prize-winning 2011 book Double Entry: How the Merchants of Venice Shaped the Modern World. Her new book is Six Capitals: the Revolution Capitalism Has to Have – or Can Accountants Save the Planet? (Allen & Unwin, ISBN: 978-1-74331-916-1). (After the interview, Kim referred to this article by Robert Reich)

    And all this money producing stuff in the world where there is still circulating money for the items in the discretionary area, so that we are awash with stuff. People knock on my door, phone me, get into my computer and badger me like badgers never did in real life. Why badgers? And I have trouble knowing what to spend the money I get sometimes as a gift voucher for a department store. What of their stuff do I want, I have to think. You can always spend it on undies, the cost of them is rocketing. it’s hard to find a single pair of socks, they are sold in 3’s now. The firms want you to spend a minimum of $10 on anything.

    All this money and what are the corporates going to do with it? They want to keep it and grow it and just ensure that some have money to buy things from them. The item this morning was talking about the advantages and disadvantages of including the hidden uncounted things in measurement of capital. They will be wanting to sell us services if they can’t sell us goods, run our lives for us.

    Perhaps the financial system under the tax haven, free market, neo liberal system is going to destroy us all, but prevent us from thinking and talking about that by destroying us singly and in groups to discourage the behaviour. In the meantime a caste system is developing so we can feel good about ignoring those feeling bad.

  8. wd it be possible to loath groser more..?

    ..the snivelling weasal is selling us out on the tpp..

    ..and is the minister for doing nothing about climate-change..

    ..he is a major villain/bad-guy of our times..

  9. Morrissey 10

    “Getting millions of hits on YouTube is NO BIG DEAL, I assure you!”
    Top Kiwi funny man full of scorn for latest Savage single

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 5 December 2014
    Jim Mora, Andrew “Dire” Clay, Barry Corbett, Julie Moffett

    Professional comedian Andrew “Dire” Clay has come to our attention on several occasions, most risibly last year, when he announced that he had stopped “being a liberal” and also that, as a comedian, “one is often mobbed by the ladies”…..

    Open mike 04/12/2013

    Today’s edition of The Panel consisted mostly of light chat, but it did get interesting after the 4:30 news, with the studio full of the sound of Savage growling his hit single “Freaks”—the one with the trumpet riff. The big question of the day: IS IT REALLY A TRUMPET? A little later, Jim announced, he would ask the legendary trumpeter Edwina Thorne about it.

    First, though, the opinions of the Panelists: Jim Mora’s kids love the song, so he’s on board with it; Barry Corbett has never heard the song, so doesn’t say much about it; Andrew “Dire” Clay, however, has very strong opinions. The song is crap, he reckons, and the trumpet solo is crude and simplistic and seems to have been sampled from a German oom-pah band. Clay’s dad was a jazz trumpeter, and Clay never heard a trumpet played like the one in this single. If you want to hear decent trumpet-playing, he urges, listen to Louis Armstrong….

    JIM MORA: Yes but it has garnered millions of hits on YouTube.
    ANDREW “DIRE” CLAY: That’s no big deal! Highlights of The Block get millions of hits! Getting millions of hits on YouTube is NO BIG DEAL, I assure you!

    That’s not quite true, of course. A quick check of Andrew Dire Clay’s YouTube history shows that it’s very difficult to get more than 3,574 hits after more than four years….

    The hit count for Savage and Timmy Trumpet is quite a contrast….

  10. greywarshark 11

    Radionz just repeated news about Christchurch and its asset sales proposed.

    Earlier Lianne Dalziel said that the government had brought this about because of them insisting on building expensive buildings, also because they don’t know how much it will cost them to repair infrastructure, the Council don’t know just hoe much they will receive from insurance so can’t plan, and lastly the government will not state clearly how much it will contribute.

    The repeat of the news did not refer to the expensive buildings insisted on by government. The government is playing with Christchurch. It’s their meccano set, they are trying to add pieces of lego as well. It is a confusion and I predict eventually they will leave it half-finished and go off to play elsewhere, and it will be a blotch of some good points and the rest badly built and planned projects with an ongoing bill that will be crushing.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Christchurch, once this government have finished with it, will still be a disaster area. It may not have crumbling buildings any more (and I’m not so sure about that) but it’s financial and social life will be gutted.

  11. Tracey 12

    Paula Bennett hasnt bothered to read the report on the Sutton investigation BUT can nevertheless express confidence in Ian Rennie.

    Meanwhile the SSC is investigating bullying in the public service…

    “… State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie said in a statement yesterday the SSC had commenced work on a review of the current guidance to the state services around bullying and harassment following the Sutton complaint. .” stuff.co.nz

    bullying is not new and ian rennie and this govt have been excusing it for years

    Remember when Katrina Bach, CEO of the DBH was investigated for bullying?

    note how mr rennie excused it in early 2012 and ask yourself…

    1. whether any of it rings a bell
    2. who the minister of housing was
    3. what happened to Ms Bach
    4. when a pattern emerges
    5. why mr rennie is still in charge


    I have had alot of dealings with DBH since 2009 and it has maintained a bullying culture inside and out for some years.

    This is why leadership matters. leaders appoint others. research has shown that people tend to appoint others like themselves. it makes sense.

    no surprise that in govts headed by people who lie as a matter of course and almost have to be bullies to advance will appoint bullies… sub consciously perhaps.

  12. Paul 13

    Derrick Jensen interview at the Earth at Risk 2014 Conference

    “There are more people talking about the Detroit Tigers than real tigers.”

    • Paul 13.1

      What he says about education, starting around 15.00 and going to 20.00, is thought provoking.

      “Never believe anything you read.
      Think for yourself.
      Schools are quite effective because I think one of the fundamental purposes of school is to turn us into good workers and to break us from the dreadful habit of critical thinking.”

  13. RedLogix 14

    Enjoyed listening to this:


    Quite funny in parts. And thought provoking.

  14. stever 15

    I look forward to first NZ police officer saying things like this:


  15. Ergo Robertina 16


    Detailed piece on the Roger Sutton case in the Press today. Particularly interesting in regards the investigation being kept narrow, and legal pressure applied to Rennie after the press conference by two staff members upset with the misrepresentation.
    The piece includes this detail from the undisclosed report by Rennie’s deputy ‘Sandi Beatie, a career public servant in her 60s with a formidable reputation’:

    ‘While saying it was not an excuse, she took into account his move from a masculine private sector environment to the public service.’

    Interesting justification, one of several for not recommending dismissal.
    Sutton was previously the CEO of Christchurch City Council owned lines company, Orion, paid more than the Prime Minister. Hardly unreasonable to expect that in that role, too, highly paid CEOs conduct themselves with respect and integrity towards staff.

  16. aerobubble 17

    Once upon a time hospitals were held in private trusts to serve the public freely. Govts merged them into the NHS. Now the tories want to privatize them. So much for trusting government.

  17. ianmac 18

    Who’d thought this of John Roughan. He agrees with Andrew and us that the zero contracts are so wrong:
    The staff undertake to turn up at an agreed hour every morning and be available all day, but if not enough work comes in they are told to knock off and will not be paid for the rest of the day.

    It happens, possibly more than policymakers know, in the small business, minimum wage service industries.

    The owners of the business don’t think it unfair since on slow days they are losing money too.

    They are treating their staff as partners in a business loss, which would be fine if they were also treating them as partners in profits……..But the deal is, or should be, that when not enough work is coming in the employee is paid regardless and the employer takes the loss….The Government knows New Zealand’s general income level is too low.

    It should do something about this while the good times last. If it wants to leave the job to Labour it might as well knock off early too.”

  18. The lost sheep 19

    Another day, yet another photo of JK.
    This time it seems completely gratuitous? No text to give it context, no specific point to make?
    It’s just that JK is the default topic on TS?

    Last time I remarked on this I was told that I had only seen a small sample of TS topics and should withhold judgment until I had seen more. So I’ve been watching, and if we take today’s home page as evidence, we have…

    25 articles
    12 of which are either directly about JK, have JK as the central element of the story, or have JK as the central theme in comment on article.
    Another 7 are ‘attack / conspiracy’ articles targeting National Govt / Corporate / other right wing entities.
    1 article about TS itself
    1 Comedy story.
    Only 4 deal with an economic / social / moral issue in an objective manner.

    0 articles with a positive focus on building a compelling alternative Left Wing alternative.

    Of the 17 photos of recognisable people on home page, 8 of them are JK.
    A further 6 are of National / Right wing identities.
    Only 3 are of Left wing individuals.

    So on an objective basis it looks to me like TS is an ‘attack blog’ with a fundamentally negative approach to social politics. It’s basically WO for the left.
    All the focus is on what the opposition is doing, and very little energy is being expended on positive and constructive discussion on concrete ways to strengthen the position of the Left Wing movement.

    That’s a real pity, because I don’t believe the Left has any chance of regaining Government in NZ, unless it does build a strong, vibrant and compelling narrative of it’s own.

    And the comments. Well, lets just say you’d really have to be in sync with the negativity / conspiracy thing to want to continue reading the same 20 people giving endless variations on their particular world views on every single thread. Obviously, if you are a regular here, you are in sync, and more power to you for that.

    But I’m outta here. Will check back occasionally in the hope of finding a site that is dominated by positive and constructive Left Wing stories and identities.
    Which is what I thought I might have found on “The voice of the Labour Movement”

    And for the 10 haters lining up to tell me good riddance, don’t bother. I get it already.

    • u r full of shit…i just scrolled the front-page..

      ..and i’m not gonna list all the stories/topics…

      ..but key-stories aren’t overwhelming..

      ..and given key is tory pm/enemy number one..

      ..the number is quite in balance..

      ..yr faux-outrage is just that..

    • b waghorn 19.2

      I’m going to stick my neck out and agree in a limited way ,I ended up here because I despise key but do find it a bit key obsessed some days and I’m sick of looking at key and slaters mugs.

    • Manuka AOR 19.3

      Fewer pics of JK and “the family”??

      Could not agree MORE! It is my one (and only) hesitation about reading TS these days. I get physically nauseous from having to ingest those images day after day. And it makes no sense at all – It is spamming for the Nats … bizarre.

      So I’m with you on this one Lost Sheep. Kudos to you for adding them up. And I strongly agree with you that the left needs to “build a strong, vibrant and compelling narrative of it’s own.”

    • Tracey 19.4

      OMG a site about left wing politics has a focus on the lack of ethics of the rightwing PM!!!!!

      “… . Will check back occasionally in the hope of finding a site that is dominated by positive and constructive Left Wing stories and identities….”

      HOW are you coming along with your posts about important issues for the voices of the labour movement? Or do you expect everyone else to be that for you? Rhetorical.

      Control trool much. ?. Using seemingly nice words to assert this is the left equivalent of WO.. Yet, no one is paid to post, no authors post as them but someone elses words, no ex prostitutes being used for dirt gathering, no providing addresses to someone wanting to kill an investigative journalist, no calling dead people, feral, no deliberately flouting suppression laws so as to identify victims of sexual abuse…no deliberate lying… And so on… Dont be fooled. He is not a lost sheep, he is a wolf in sheeps clothing on a mission to pretend TS is the same as WO cos it focuses on a PM who lies or has a neurological illness causing major memory loss

    • Murray Rawshark 19.5

      It’s not for everyone. So what? If I go into an ice cream shop and they don’t have the flavour I want, I go elsewhere. I don’t write a 5000 word essay about it.

    • Weepus beard 19.6

      But I’m outta here.

      Thank the good lord for that.

      Don’t let the door hit your fat arse on the way out.

      I hope you are good to your word and you have flounced permanently, but alas I fully expect more daft trolling in the days to come.

    • Colonial Rawshark 19.7

      And for the 10 haters lining up to tell me good riddance, don’t bother. I get it already.

      Well thank god for that, after your self serving drivel I was starting to wonder about your intelligence.

    • North 19.8

      Ha ! – The Lost Sheep @ 19 – TheGodKey IS an ” economic / social / moral issue ” ! Have a ‘Gecko’ at the picture you mention.

      And once you’ve finished ‘Gecko-ing’ you may or you may not resume your ‘echo-ing’ of TheGodKey. Which is another issue in itself.

  19. Potato 20

    And for a bit of laugh … this opinion piece by Andrew Gunn.
    “TV3 has today revealed that the 2015 season of The Block NZ will be produced by the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service.”


  20. Agent orange 21

    Every successful salesmen knows that one never runs down the opposition no matter how bad they are. one acknowledges they exist and then say “but we are better” and then show and explain how ones own product is much better. People like hearing and are more receptive to good positive ideas. The same applies to politics. Don’t run down the opposition, come up with good positive idea. I and others are waiting to hear positive things Labour can do, not the bellyaching of what National is or has done. Forget dirty politics, it didn’t tarnish the National party during the elections so don’t try and whip a dead horse. Old saying, if you havent something good to say then be quiet!

    • Clemgeopin 21.1

      come up with good positive idea. I and others are waiting to hear positive things Labour can do

      Which of these did you find were not ‘good ideas’ or were not ‘positive’?

      No One’s Fault But Ours

      • Jenny Kirk 21.1.1

        Agree with you totally, ClemGeopin – and to other posters at 19 and 21- its a bit difficult to see how we can all continually say “something good” when so much destructive stuff is happening to ordinary NZers being shunted their way by this destructive Nat govt, led by the seemingly unaware John Key.

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 21.2

      So do you suggest that National should not be called to account and enabled to sweep all the crap under the carpet?

    • Draco T Bastard 21.3

      Forget dirty politics, it didn’t tarnish the National party during the elections so don’t try and whip a dead horse.

      You can keep telling yourself that but it’s still not true and it still proves that National are totally and utterly corrupt.

    • Tracey 21.4

      You had a mind meld in 2006 which made you unable to see the endless attacks on helen clark and her husband that directly resulted in defeat in 2008.

    • Naturesong 21.5

      I absolutely reject your premise that “Every successful salesmen knows that one never runs down the opposition”.

      Franklin D. Roosevelt – 1936 Madison Square Garden speech; wiki link, youtube Link

      For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.

      We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

      They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

      Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.

      I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

    • Murray Rawshark 21.6

      Forget Dirty Politics? Nah, sorry. It’s not even about the rotten National Party. It’s about rebuilding our democracy.

      Now go and pay for the damage you did to a generation of Vietnamese.

  21. Clemgeopin 22

    World war 111? Hope not!
    I just read something very disturbing and scary. Don’t know what to make of it or where it will all lead to!

    • Pascals bookie 22.1

      I wouldn’t worry too much.

      Firstly, a lot of the quotes about what congress is doing come from RT. Not saying it’s not true, but if I was writing the piece I would have linked direct to the congressional record rather than to what RT has to say about it. A pretty big flag. If you google the phrase:

      “stockpiling a base in Poland with enough weapons, ammunition and other supplies to support a rapid deployment of thousands of troops against Russia”

      not a lot shows up that doesn’t go back to the same RT piece. Which is odd. Again, not saying it’s not true, but congressional links ought to be showing up somewhere.

      Secondly, even if congress is telling the President to do these things, that does not make an actual preparation for war make. And Congress can’t tell the president to do it, it’s a resolution of the house that he they reckon he should do xyz, that and 5$, a cup of coffee, etc

      take this bit

      “We are not dealing with a “Cold War”. None of the safeguards of the Cold War era prevail. ”

      That’s just silly. During the cold war these sorts of ‘preparations for war and similar plans were constant. Even with the current ‘breakdown in diplomacy’ things are a lot more connected than they were during the cold war. Putin was recently in Australia for example. The writer doesn’t say what these missing safeguards are, it’s just thrown in at the beginning of the piece to say “ooga boogah” basically.

      As for the actual rest of it, it’s bog standard for the type of activity we saw during the Cold War. Big training exercises clearly aimed at ‘preparing’ for a conflict with your opponent are about signalling and little more. You don’t do it obviously if you intend to do it in reality. It’s like the big uptick in Russian flights etc with bombers and their naval movements. It’s just saying “Yeah, we’re here, we see you, we’re ready, don;t do anything stupid’.

      So rather than it being a sign of the absence of the cold war safeguards against conflict, it’s just those same signals being sent.

      • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1

        Not saying it’s not true, but if I was writing the piece I would have linked direct to the congressional record rather than to what RT has to say about it.

        You mean like the bit at the bottom where it says:

        Bill Text

        113th Congress (2013-2014)


        • Pascals bookie

          Yeah, but the meat of the piece is from RT, which like or not, is a fairly stupid call to make. No need whatsoever to mention what RT has to say. It’s a beat up over nothing.

      • Clemgeopin 22.1.2

        Hope you are correct. To me it seems like dangerous stuff.

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 22.2

      Another reason to stay at arm’s length from the US war machine. Are you listening, John Key?

  22. batweka 23

    I see Petey has been shit stirring again,

    I hope someone has warned Andrew Little that Pete George is an unpaid and unacknowledged but super keen volunteer for the DP brigade.

  23. joe90 25

    Nah, couldn’t happen here.

    Premier Foods, one of the UK’s biggest manufacturers, has been asking its suppliers for payments to continue doing business with the firm.

    One supplier said the practice – known as pay and stay – was like “blackmail”.

    Newsnight understands the struggling company has received millions of pounds from its suppliers in this way.

    Premier Foods said it was confident the scheme did not break any rules under competition law. The government said it was “concerned by recent reports”.

    The company, which owns brands like Mr Kipling, Ambrosia, Bisto and Oxo, demanded the payments from suppliers across the country.


  24. Tracey 26

    are we, as a former MP suggests racist? The same MP sees, apparently, no slippery slopeyness in our spying and privacy, but does in our racism

    • batweka 26.1

      Some criticism of Chinese buying land here comes from racism. Some comes from the fact that the media make a big deal out of Chinese investors and not US or British ones. Where I live it’s the US/Brits that are buying land and fucking the prices, so I’m critical of that, but in reality it’s all foreign ownership that is the problem.

    • Ben Adam 26.2

      I am surprised they invite Tau Henare as any kind of wise guy. his comments are stupid, very weak. To me, he does not appear as expert with much common sense even. May be he is there to earn some easy money with silly comments.

      • Naturesong 26.2.1

        He’s there as a pugilist, to rub people up the wrong way so they may say something unguarded.

        Imagine the ratings if he decked someone though?
        They could invite Mallard on and have Henere needle him til his head pops.

      • phillip ure 26.2.2

        henare is a braying fool..

        ..he is also unable to mount a coherent argument..

        ..quite why he is there…i dunno..

    • Murray Rawshark 26.3

      Tau Henare is a waste of skin. He’ll be keen to blame racism because it’s difficult for many people to reply to that, some of us actually are, and he’s probably got links with Chinese money.

      I’ve just been discussing this on Facebook, and posted:

      A good part of our housing problem is because properties can be sold to foreign speculators who have access to cheap finance. It’s always presented as Chinese buying up “our” houses, but when someone like Tau Henare is against a foreign ownership register, we know that’s only a spin put on things to make opposition seem racist. I would clamp down really hard on this and limit property ownership to residents, with a limit of one property for each adult. I’d buy the others back at 1984 prices, which were more realistic before Rogernomes buggered everything up. Then I’d turn them into state rentals.
      I don’t expect much support for my idea, but we need to do something drastic before we end up living in tents.

      ….other people’s posts….

      They being any non-resident, whether they say G’day cobber, Bom dia, Buenos dias, Nia hao, Good morning old fruit, or whatever. And Kiwis only need one each.
      There are two related issues with housing. One is that a lot of people don’t have adequate housing. I can only see that being fixed with a state housing program.
      The other is that any spare cash gets invested in property. This causes a bubble which must burst at some stage and also stops investment in other areas. I can only see this being fixed by limiting ownership. A capital gains tax won’t fix this problem. In fact, it could just push prices higher.

  25. Just listened to Tom Scott on Kim Hill’s “Playing Favourites.” Fantastic! About time. People are angry and they have every right to be angry. Angry people swear. So fucking what? Are we meant to be outraged by a simple word now? Well fuck that.

    • batweka 27.1

      The thing I really liked about it was how Scott was just being real and not playing the game. He was obviously ambushed, and thrown by that, and so he just named it. He also named, multiple times, the fact that Key is evil and people are sick of it. Then when he got the chance he walked out.

      I like Kim Hill generally, but she really got shown up today for the middle class wank that RNZ for the most part is. They cover lots of good stuff, but there is no getting around the fact that working class voices are largely excluded and instead RNZ gives space to people who want to talk about other people’s class issues without actually doing anything about them.

  26. Red delusion 28

    Working class oh so last century, move on batweka, even labour led by a boring as batweka bother boy unionist realise that banging on about working class is about as useful as banging on about dinosaur rights,

    • batweka 28.1

      Did you just say that the working class are extinct?

    • millsy 28.2

      So you think trade unionists should be strung up with piano wire?

    • RedLogix 28.3

      No millsy – he’s just labouring under the very common delusion that he’s middle class. When in all probability he’s mortgaged to hell and back and is two or three missed pay packets away from bankruptcy.

      • Halfcrown 28.3.1

        No millsy – he’s just labouring under the very common delusion that he’s middle class. When in all probability he’s mortgaged to hell and back and is two or three missed pay packets away from bankruptcy.

        A two bob millionaire.

    • Colonial Rawshark 28.4

      Working class oh so last century, move on batweka, even labour led by a boring as batweka bother boy unionist realise that banging on about working class is about as useful as banging on about dinosaur rights,

      Does the vast majority of your income disappear if you skip off work for a month or two? If so, you’re working class. Idiot.

    • Clemgeopin 28.5

      banging on about working class is about as useful as banging on about dinosaur rights

      Can you explain what you really mean?

  27. Clemgeopin 30

    The article says:

    Millie Elder-Holmes paid tribute to her late boyfriend in fitting fashion with a convincing win over Shortland Street star Frankie Adams on the Fight of Life in Hamilton tonight.

    Isn’t this sort of stupid ‘sport’ just bloody shit? What the hell is wrong with those sponsoring this sort of crap and the supporters supporting this sort of shit?


  28. Millie fought someone and won. Big Deal.

    There are according to ACC more than 7,000 reported concussions a year in NZ. So maybe twice or three times that number unreported. Say 12,000 brain injuries a year? Every year, 12,00 new cases. And they accumulate to some extent because some of them never get better. So obviously we really need try hards hitting each other in the head for media attention eh?

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