web analytics

Open mike 07/08/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 7th, 2022 - 90 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

90 comments on “Open mike 07/08/2022 ”

  1. Roy cartland 1

    'I've seen it all': Peter Goodfellow looks back at 50 years as National member https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472348/i-ve-seen-it-all-peter-goodfellow-looks-back-at-50-years-as-national-member

    I'll never live with regret of not trying new things, embracing new technology, or trying to help our party move into the 21st century.



  2. tsmithfield 2

    I have lost a lot of respect for Amnesty International after this tweet that is disgusting on so many levels:

    "Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas."

    Firstly, Russia is shelling and firing missiles at civilian areas regardless of whether Ukrainian military are there. The primary reason that civilians are at risk is because of Russian actions, independent of the location of Ukrainian forces.

    Secondly, Zelensky specifically ordered civilians to leave the danger zones precisely to avoid the possibility of putting civilians in danger.

    Whereas, Russia intentionally undertakes actions that put civilians at risk, such as placing its forces and equipment deep inside a nuclear power plant and other such positioning of forces to intentionally put civilians in danger. And other human rights violations such as forced conscription in occupied areas.

    Finally, the most disgusting aspect of this tweet is that it gives the Russians moral authority to attack Ukrainian civilians even more, because Amnesty International says that the Ukrainians are placing their forces in those areas.

    • Joe90 2.1

      Donated for forty years. No more.

    • Ad 2.2

      Well said.

    • joe90 2.3

      Lotsa useful idiots.

    • Sanctuary 2.4

      I infortunately came across an image of the head of a murdered Ukrainian POW on a stake in Popasna, with his hands impaled on a fence railing behind him. Last week a Ukrainian soldier was castrated then shot by Chechen savages in Putin's employ.

      Heads on spikes, ritual castrations, mass murder of POWs. It reads like a recitation of the atrocities of the SS, but it is happening now. This week, yesterday, tomorrow in Europe.

      One struggles for an emotional response to this, except to observe that for savages like the Chechens and the Wagner group the only legitimate response is not to make excuses for Putin or blame NATO or talk about the temerity of the Ukrainian army and it's refusal to relocate from the cities they are defending to a nearby featureless plain for the convenience of Russian artillery but to grimly decide to go about the business of killing the bastards. And if you capture the perpetrators of the atrocities, take them round the back and show them more mercy they showed your mates by doing it quickly.

      Just like our grand/great grand parents did to the last lot of fascist savages in Europe.

    • Visubversa 2.5

      Amnesty in Ireland and the UK have turned their backs on women. The Amnesty head in Ireland said that Gender Critical people did not deserve political representation and in England the organisation supported "Trans Rights" activists picketing the FiLia international women's conference.


    • Jenny how to get there 2.6

      Balanced against all this, is all the good work that Amnesty has done around the world.

      It makes me wonder what can be said about this.

      Was the pressure of the Russian trolls too much?

      Is Amnesty International trying too hard to make their position clear that they are neutral in war zones between the two sides. (The balanced argument approach).

      Amnesty International has some questions to answer

      I am no military expert, isn't the aggressor not the defenders, responsible for the deaths of civilians, if those civilians are being attacked?

      What is Amnesty saying? That the Ukrainian Forces defending their country from Russian aggression should not place themselves in positions to defend civilian areas from Russian attack?

      What does Amnesty think the Ukraine forces should do to protect civilians?


  3. Joe90 3

    Always the Chekist.


  4. Robert Guyton 4

    This guy, Chris, describes conifers and their usefulness to native plant restoration and land use change, very well. Those who loathe Pinus radiate might learn from his post.

    • Sabine 4.1

      They don't loath Pinus Radiatus, they loath why and how Pinus Radiatus is planted and harvested.

      Chances are they have never seen a decent mix forest in the first place, but they for sure see the scars of clear logging from the car whilst travelling and they may had their house flooded cause slash blocked a river and blablabla – that was my MiL a few years back.

      • Robert Guyton 4.1.1

        I do believe "they" transfer their loathing onto the tree.

        • Incognito

          Are they barking up the …?

        • Sabine

          not sure honestly.

          when i speak to people about the need to re-green and plant the issue comes up and with it the general upset with the damage it does to the environement. I think the idea that one could use these trees in accordance with nature and the specifics here in NZ is yet to be properly advertised and explained. A bit like gorse, when i first came across this plant people thought it a toy of the devil, mind you it is quite a usefull plant used in the correct ways.

      • solkta 4.1.2

        I loath them. Fucking ugly trees.

        • Robert Guyton

          I'd love to have a go at changing your mind, solkta 🙂

          I spent many hours sitting in contemplation of one of the oldest stands of conifer in the country; a mix of pines from around the world. By that stage, they were "elders" and emanated sagacity and poise like no trees I'd ever studied before. We cut them down before they get a chance to express their value, in my opinion 🙂

          • woodart

            have you been to eastwoodhill ? the nz national arboretum. fantastic place.

            • Robert Guyton

              I haven't. I've been invited, but my dislike of travel works against me. I believe it to be, as you say, a fantastic place.

    • bwaghorn 4.3

      From time spent cutting pines down in various places understory depends on where the trees are , around tokoroa it was a jungle in 28 years, out on the coast down kapiti just plain needles , up in the Napier taupo needles and shrub scrub .

      Contorta did seem to just blanket out all life given time though.

      Of course pines can kill rural communities dead though . All for a bit of xhort term gain and feel good .

      • Robert Guyton 4.3.1

        Depends somewhat on the proximity to stands of native forest. Those pine forests that didn't develop a strong native understory would have benefitted from seeds from elsewhere, applied by humans.

        • bwaghorn

          In the case of the Napier taupo end of kiangaroa I'd say the hungry nature of the pumice soils where the limiting factor.

    • Pingao 4.4

      Yes some exotic conifers can help with restoration, and other exotics such as gorse can too but it still all depends on the particular biome and environment and on the species. For example some Pinus species are incredibly invasive in upland environments and destroy local plant and animal communities.

      On Banks Peninsula for example, my own experience is that Pinus radiata is great when thinned out as it matures and allows mahoe etc. to establish but only in the gullies and lower areas. It is also great habitat for piwakawaka and other birds if it is not a dense monoculture of pine. Radiata however has and is wiping out the shrublands on the upper slopes where numerous small-leaved plants and climbers that insects and lizards depend on are the natural habitat.

      Indigenous plants also create fantastic successional habitat and indeed the variation and differences between species are critical to healthy ecosystems as they respond to different environmental factors and disturbance over time. Pinus radiata shades out light loving species such as Manuka, kanuka, tumatakorou (matagouri).

      Established forest via succession (basically taller more woody plants come to dominance over time) is not an end point and, in my opinion, nor should it be a goal for everywhere. Shrublands, tussocklands, alpine ecosystems and wetlands are all just as critical to a healthy living environment.

      Finally, we also have our own conifers in New Zealand – the mighty ones such as Totara, Matai, Kahikatea, Rimu, Kawaka – they just need time.

      • weka 4.4.1

        lovely commentary, thanks.

        What would have been growing on the upper slopes of Banks Peninsula originally?

      • DB Brown 4.4.2

        Thank you. Sometimes the love of poetry takes over Robert's love of ecology.

    • Graeme 4.5

      In the old Kaingaroa there were a couple of compartments that were planted in the very early days (20's – 30's) and just left, with no silvicultural inputs to see what happened. The old NZFS did a lot of that in it's function as a research institute. In the late 70's I was tasked with surveying a road line through the corner of the compartment and we may as well have been across the valley in Te Urewera, the understory was so thick. At around 50 years old the pines were going through a phase of self thinning where the stronger trees were displacing weaker ones, dead and fallen pines all over the place and vigorous native understory coming away in the gaps. Took us several weeks to cut and survey 300m of line. Strangely I don't remember cutting any young pines, just native understory.

      In another mature (30 yrs and about to harvest) compartment at Minganui that abutted the native, at the boundary between the pines and native the understory was very similar but the big trees were pines at regular spacings rather than mixed native at much wider random spacings.

      • Robert Guyton 4.5.1

        Thanks for that insight, Graeme. The key is leaving the pines to mature. My hope is the pine plantations going in now will never be mass-harvested and most with live long and their native understory, prosper.

        • arkie

          This also reminds me of a Country Calendar episode I saw many years ago about a couple who had an open forest style paddock (it was the site of the original farmhouse and had numerous large exotic trees planted a century ago). They ran dairy cattle in the paddock, they didn't need to irrigate or fertilise it and claimed a 20% increase in milk productivity. Sadly I can't find any reference online.

          However I did also find this:

          Ngāi Tahu and the government have joined forces on a new project to validate the science of regenerative farming.

          The seven year research programme will compare side-by-side dairy farms to assess the environmental impacts of their practices.

          One 286-hectare farm will use regenerative farming practices while the adjacent 330-hectare farm will use conventional methods.

          Both farms will have a stocking rate of 3.2 cows per hectare.

          The regenerative farm will use a more diverse pasture species, will have a longer rotation length and will use natural fertilisers over synthetic ones.


          Let's hope they can include increased tree-planting as part of this experiment.

        • Graeme

          It would be interesting to see what would happen if that was done around East Cape. Worked on some of the early re-foresting of abandoned farms up there and it was obvious harvesting was going to be a marginal exercise when we were trying to put roads in to just plant the blocks, let alone get the logs out on them. I can remember a Forester at the time saying that leaving the blocks to revert to permanent native or hybrid was the best thing to do with them.

    • Belladonna 4.6

      So why are wilding pines such a major threat then?


      Is it that they create 'forest' in previously unforested areas?

      Because if, left alone, they result in re-forestation of primarily indigenous species – they shouldn't be a problem….

      • Pingao 4.6.1

        It depends on the pine species and on the local environment. Lodgepole pine is a very destructive pest in subalpine areas for example. Pinus radiata (Monterey pine) is not too bad in many lowland areas if it is allowed to stand and is not planted too densely so that lowland indigenous forest species can establish quickly. Not much lowland land would be allowed to have such pine forests though as it is prime land thanks to the millennia of tall lowland forest.

        • Belladonna

          Thanks, to the uninitiated 'pine' tends to mean all pines – so interesting/useful to know that different varieties are pests of differing severity.

      • Graeme 4.6.2

        Around here, Central Otago and specifically Whakatipu, it's not so much the introduced pine but the specific species. Here the endemic forest cover would be Mountain Beech forest from valley floor to 1000m, with alpines and tussock above.

        The wilding conifers, Douglas Fir, Larch and P. Contorta, will grow up to 2000m so we'll end up with something very different to what was natural.

        There's a lot of work going on locally exploring the possibilities of re-establishing Mountain Beech to replace wildings with some very encouraging results. Interestingly there is evidence of a mycorrhizal relationship between Beech and Douglas Fir, and possibly other introduced conifers. Beech seem to do a lot better when the roots are in association with a Douglas Fir's roots. Some experiments going on to replicate this and explore other species of conifer. It's early days but idea of replacing the Douglas Firs above Queenstown and around Whakatipu with Mountain Beech may quickly become a thing.

        • Robert Guyton

          Replacing the Douglas fir, or adding to the Douglas fir?

          • Graeme

            Work in progress Robert. There's some very high risk Douglas Fir blocks that are being removed, like the Arrowtown Endowment block behind Millbrook which is going to be replaced. There's also trials with encouraging supercedure within Douglas Fir and other conifer species.

            All very live science with a couple of PHDs underway. Unfortunately not a lot of funding but it's looking promising.

            • Robert Guyton

              I hope you'll keeps posted, Graeme. Your mention of the fungal interdependence interested me the most. I think we know too little about this. One aspect of the fungal nets is their capacity for sequestering carbon. We haven't yet factored that in. Presently, we value connectivity poorly and allow our systems, livestock farming in particular, to dice up our landscapes into disconnected units. This is far more damaging than we perceive presently, I believe.

        • DB Brown

          I observed up here in Auckland some trees are promiscuous hosts of mycorrhizae. If you want to hasten succession identifying those species in each biome would prove valuable.

    • Cricklewood 4.7

      Personally I dont think monoculture forest should count towards carbon credits. I'd like to see far more mixed forest planted co training both native and exotics with a view to providing nectar sources.

      Here in Auckland Prunus campanulata is in full bloom (recently banned here) every tree in my street is packed with Tuis except the few that have a resident that's puffed up and really doesn't want to share.

      It's an invaluable source of nectar in a time of scarcity we need to be far smarter with our approach to reforestation.

      • Robert Guyton 4.7.1

        "Here in Auckland Prunus campanulata is in full bloom (recently banned here) every tree in my street is packed with Tuis "

        Therein lies he rub – what to do, what to do?

        Work with those generous plants, not against them.

        When they become redundant, retire them.

        They won't mind.

        Till then, respect them for what they do.


        • solkta

          Retire them. Haha. Have you seen how this shit grows in Northland?

          • PsyclingLeft.Always

            Seeds are long-lived and widely dispersed. It is tolerant of warm and cold climates, low to medium rainfall. Forms dense stands that are long-lived.


            Introduced weed trees..like other INTRODUCED pest plants…pest animals..pest insects. harmful to our NZ Native Biodiversity.

            Aye Weedbusters !

            • Cricklewood

              But it's more complicated than that, they can enhance our biodiversity given they provide abundant nectar to our native birds thus supporting a population recovery.

              Give me a deciduous Prunus forest over Pine any day of the week.

              • solkta

                They do not enhance our biodiversity. What bullshit. What will Tui eat the rest of the year when we only have this shit because they have crowded everything else out?

                • PsyclingLeft.Always

                  These attractive birds can often be heard singing their beautiful melodies before they are spotted. You will recognise them by their distinctive white tuft under their throat.

                  They are important pollinators of many native trees and will fly large distances, especially during winter for their favourite foods. They feed mainly on nectar from flowers of native plants such as kōwhai, puriri, rewarewa, kahikatea, pohutukawa, rātā and flax.

                  Occasionally they will eat insects too.


                  Native plants and shrubs are the best way to attract native birds to your garden.


                  And Aye !!. I have been growing some of these (Kowhai, Flax, Cabbage Tree ,etc; ). Tui Love. them and Bellbird !

                • Cricklewood

                  I've not seen any dense Prunus forest in NZ even remotely like Gorse or wind blown Pine… the fact that its deciduous kinda prevents that… I'd be more worried about Kiwifruit now that's a real problem…

          • Robert Guyton

            I don't know about them, so I did my research 🙂


            Love the trees or hate them, the tui have no qualms at all. The nectar is manna from heaven to them. And therein lies the problem. I was contacted recently by someone who is crusading against the sale and planting of campanulata cherries and I was only relatively sympathetic because I think we are in danger of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

            The problem is the seeding habits of some campanulatas. Many set prodigious amounts of seed which is then spread far and wide by our bird population. There is an alarmingly high rate of germination. The seedlings grow rapidly and after the second season, plants are too big to hand pull out. If you cut them off, they grow again. So bad is the problem that they have been banned in Northland and this correspondent would like to see them banned everywhere.

            “There are loads of better trees for Tui such as Kowhai, Rewarewa that can be available at the same time” he claimed. I don’t want to be picky with someone who genuinely cares for the environment, but on a property packed with food for the birds, I have never seen a plant as attractive to tui as the campanulata cherries. Besides, in late winter, neither kowhai nor rewarewa are in flower yet.

            I mentioned babies and bathwater because the problem is seeding. There are sterile forms of campanulata and both gardeners and tui alike may rue the day if ALL campanulatas get banned, even the named forms that never set seed. This is a problem we gardeners have brought upon ourselves. The record of garden escapes into the wild is not a proud one and too many gardeners don’t take responsibility for their weeds."


            • Cricklewood

              Mostly in agreement with that although whilst abundant I dont see a situation where Prunus will prevent the establishment of or overtake our very hardy natives (which can outlast gorse.) They're more a useful addition at least for our birds and those of us that enjoy the winter blossom… Not to different to Karaka really just many generations later…

        • Cricklewood

          Agreed, I just cant abide a monoculture 🙃

      • solkta 4.7.2

        Next you will be saying we should save the Woolly Nightshade for the Kereru.

        • Robert Guyton

          Woolly nightshade can look after itself – doesn't need our help.

          The primary plant-agent-of-destruction of native forests here in NZ has been the pasture grasses; it's everywhere and our forests have fallen at their approach.

          Deeply saddening (see kahikatea especially).

  5. joe90 6

    The alternative to Pharmac.

    Steve Ubl, who leads the nation’s top industry group for drugmakers, is offering a final salvo to Congress as Democratic lawmakers inch closer to passing their sweeping reconciliation package that includes drug pricing measures — and threatening swift retaliation if they don’t listen, he told POLITICO.

    Ubl’s group, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, and its 31 board members sent a letter to every member of Congress on Thursday afternoon, urging them to vote against the package


  6. Sabine 7

    This is a truly lovely read of salmon, native tribes of the US and "Aotearoa in New Zealand" and a much desired and cherished home coming.


    We know it’s not ideal, it’s not New Zealand salmon yet, but it’s a step in the right direction.”

    According to the Tribe, this event is one step in the journey that was launched in 2010, when Winnemem tribal members went to Aotearoa in New Zealand to sing and dance for their salmon relatives that have been waiting for 100 years to return to their home waters.

  7. Stephen D 8

    Pablo putting the latest Chinese manoeuvres in perspective.


    “PRC military exercises after Pelosi’s visit are akin to silverback male gorillas who run around thrashing branches and beating their chests when annoyed, disturbed or seeking to show dominance. They are certainly dangerous and not to be ignored, but their aggression is about signaling/posturing, not imminent attack. In other words, the behaviour is a demonstration of physical capabilities and general disposition rather than real immediate intent. If and when the PRC assault on Taiwan comes, it will not be telegraphed.”

  8. Poission 9

    With the arrest of Joseph Stalin in Sri Lanka questions are being asked.

  9. Joe90 10

    And arseholery.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

    ― John Kenneth Galbraith

    "To young people who don’t want to work: You might have a free ride under Labour, but under National, it ends,” Luxon said.


    • Alan 10.1

      So Natioanl wants to help young people have a shot at a life of earning an income and having some self esteem and you think that's a bad thing????

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        The devils in the details, I'll wait to see what it actually means.

        • Barfly

          Well surprise surprise the national Party promises consequences and sanctions (did they forget to say 'crackdown'?) on beneficiaries. SSDD they really are the supreme arseholes of New Zealand.

          • Puckish Rogue

            All political parties lie but in this instance I want to see what they're actually saying beyond the headline

            • Barfly

              PR I remember well the JK years – when approaching elections the National would go big on beneficiary crackdowns – promises of sanctions and punishments and new hoops to jump through for those least able to fare well in our society. The National Party did this for electoral advantage as many of their fans really enjoy the underclass being punished Luxon is busy now wooing these people by throwing them lots of 'raw meat'. We have recently seen some people claim that the Labour Government has caused division with the vaccine mandates – yet there is fuck all said about Nationals promotion of of ill will to beneficiaries. Same Shit Different Day.

        • bwaghorn

          It's the national party ,it'll be all whip , smashing down on what they see as weak people who just need to get it together and become high achieveing self made winners like them . !!!

      • observer 10.1.2

        Help? That'd be great – if the promise meant anything …

        When I became unemployed about a decade ago I went to WINZ and asked for help. Sure, I got some financial support, and I was glad of that, but I was very down and really wanted the kind of one-on-one counselling that Luxon mentions today in his speech:

        Young jobseekers will get more support, with a proper assessment of their barriers, and an individual job plan to address those barriers, and find a job.

        (instead of currently …)

        You don't have to have a case manager, though you can call an 0800 number if you want one. That is far too casual.

        So why didn't I have a case manager? Why wasn't somebody dedicated to my personal support?

        Simple. Cost. Yes, Luxon is proposing an expensive investment in people, call them coaches, counsellors, case workers, whatever.

        I'd be all for that, but it will come with a hefty price tag, and only a fool would believe National wants to fund it.

        • KJT

          National, as usual, wants to ensure that exploitative underpaying arseholes of employers, have a constant supply of forced labour.

    • Muttonbird 10.2

      Punching down on our young people right after a 1 in 100 year pandemic.

      This mirrors the time when egghead said NZ businesses are soft. Zero compassion. Should be easy for the PM to tear the Botany bumbler a new one.

      He’s going to give 20 somethings a grand if the stay in a job for a year? I’ve worked for 30 years, where’s my money?

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 10.2.1

        Last year it was race relations and it proved a big hit — this year it is beneficiaries.

        National leader Don Brash returned to the Orewa Rotary Club north of Auckland — the scene of last year's triumphant "one law for all" speech — with welfare firmly in his sights.

        Comparing himself to the first Labour prime minister Michael Joseph Savage, who he called a fiscal and moral conservative, Dr Brash said they both saw welfare as a temporary measure.


        Yea just more nat party dogwhistlin’ from the playbook ! Note Brash…ex Reserve Bank, Ex Nat Leader, still Act ?…..but anyway…Comparing himself to Michael J Savage ? asshole. !

    • Mac1 10.3

      What's the number of people that he is targeting? How many are already using case managers? The use of a payment for a years's good work after a year on a benefit is on the face of it a reasonable idea. As PR says at 10.1.1 the devil is in the detail- of which little was provided by Luxon.

    • Mac1 10.4

      That quote from JK Galbraith is pure gold. "Because we earned it", "because we deserve it," "because we are blessed by it…."

      National says, "Because we hard -working kiwis earned it and we deserve it whereas they don't because they are lazy, sinful and not like us".

    • Jester 10.5

      There should be very few young people on job seeker benefit for over a year as I've said on here before (although all the three amigos (moderators) disagree with me). Shops, factories, companies, restaurants all around NZ are crying out for staff and offering wages well in excess of job seeker benefit. But too many NZ'ers would rather stay on the benefit. Time for these young people to contribute to society rather than be a burden on it.

      • Incognito 10.5.1

        … (although all the three amigos (moderators) disagree with me).

        You obviously refuse to inform yourself of the facts and rather act like an unthinking parrot flapping your little wings when you think you hear the sounds of bennie bashing. If you had at least some kind of opinion with a decent argument we could debate you, but as it stands our efforts would be wasted like pouring rum into an alcoholic’s mouth.

      • Descendant Of Smith 10.5.2

        Why pick on young people?

        Looking at MSD's fact sheets young people are the smallest group on benefit at 15.3% down from 16.3% a year ago. In fact they have had the biggest drop in the last twelve months. That suggests young people are going to work faster than all other groups. Those lazy 55-64 year olds have gone up the most. Sanction them. Fucking retiring early bastards. Hit them before they turn into the most hardworking, honest, never been off work a day in my life deserving people at 65.

        I don't have excel so can't look at the detailed data but it seems Luxon is dog whistling at the wrong group of people.


      • Descendant Of Smith 10.5.3

        restaurants all around NZ are crying out for staff

        lol. I thought most were crying poverty because there are no tourists and no-one working in the CBD.

    • SPC 10.6

      The key detail is that National wants to contract out management of these (under 25) cases, not MSD staff.

      MSD uses work brokers to interface (matching skills) between business and those on the JS Benefit.

      The pertinent issue is why these "youth" are not being connected to training for work providers – one reason might be staffing issues in them and MSD due to COVID and general labour issues slowing down delivery of services.

      • Descendant Of Smith 10.6.1

        There's work to be done for them churches.

        Just like Paula Bennet gave millions of dollars in funding to her religious mates to run parenting courses (still waiting for an evaluation of their effectiveness), the churches are busy making money helping the homeless now they will be "helping" our young people.

        Bring back orphanages and homes for unmarried mothers I say. Poorhouses for the sanctioned ones.

  10. Jenny how to get there 11


    It's like Jesus put on few pounds, shaved off his beard, put on shades and died his hair.


  11. Ad 12

    It would have been so easy for Luxon to give just a tiniest bit of the steps to making us a more prosperous, more engaged, more uplifted country.

    Going down the route of beneficiaries is the same sad punitive bullshit.

    I would give National $1,000 to get themselves off their donor welfare, and then just make them all go cold turkey.

  12. joe90 13

    Sounds a bit hitlery.

  13. Belladonna 14

    I'm sorry if this has already been covered (I've been mostly offline over the past few days, with work and family)

    But I thought this was a really interesting result – a hefty and increasing percentage of Kiwis think that if you have to shift because of climate change (rising sea levels, etc.) 'society' (govt or local govt) should not have to pay the whole of the cost, and that the home-owner should have to pay a significant percentage.

    The really key question of 'who pays' not answered in the National Adaptation plan, just released.

    Caveat. The research was commissioned by an insurer – so caveat emptor.


    Have to say, in Auckland, at least, the communities most 'threatened' by climate change, sea level rise and/or extreme weather – are the wealthy ones. I don't see why a landowner on Takapuna Beach should have the 'value' of a beachfront house for 20+ years, then have the taxpayer/ratepayer pay the bill for them to relocate once the rising tide is lapping at their front doorstep.

    This seems to be a shift from the public attitude around the 'red zone' relocations in Christchurch. Where the public attitude was that this was an entirely unforeseen issue (no one predicted earthquakes and/or liquefaction prior to 2010), and residents could hardly be blamed for not planning ahead.

    Whereas the rise in climate risks is entirely predictable, and you can take sensible precautions (sell your beach-front lifestyle while you still can; re-build houses to be transportable; invest some of your millions in other residential sections, to manage your own retreat, etc.)

    • Visubversa 14.1

      For some years Councils have been aware of sea level rises, storm surge extents, flood plain capacities etc. This information is on LIM reports and on Council GIS systems. In a previous incarnation I was a Land Use Planner and I regularly had to contend with restrictions on site developments because of these factors. They ranged from a site subject to a 1.5m high storm surge where the lower level of the dwelling was not able to be habitable – restricted to storage, garage, laundry etc, and all electrical works had to be above the 1.5m height – to sites where any further development or subdivision required safe egress (basically – a bridge) to be constructed from the dwelling to the driveway – or where no further development was possible because of the nature of the flood danger. There will be an ever increasing number of these areas,

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • More than 4 million Cost of Living payments made
    More than four million Cost of Living payments have now been made to provide timely support for low and middle income New Zealanders and soften the impact of inflation pressures. That number is expected to grow to more than six million payments once the remaining eligible people file their tax ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Child poverty declines in spite of COVID
    Government policy means child poverty measures improve during COVID-19 in contrast to them rising sharply during the GFC. There are 145,000 fewer children in hardship in 2021 during the COVID-19 pandemic than when hardship numbers peaked after the GFC in 2011. There were 70,000 more jobless households with children during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • KiwiRail to remain a State-Owned Enterprise
    KiwiRail will remain a state-owned enterprise, allowing it to focus on transitioning its above-rail business to be financially self-sufficient, Ministers have announced today. “This Government has invested heavily in KiwiRail over several budgets to ensure that it is better placed to deliver on the Government’s objectives. As a state-owned enterprise, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • 55-hectares of Buller land purchased to protect native species
    Two blocks of Buller land rich in native species have been purchased by the Crown to be protected in perpetuity as public conservation land, Minister of Conservation Poto Williams announced today. Acquired via the Nature Heritage Fund, one block is in the Punakaiki River valley adjoining the Paparoa National Park ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • Strengthening the relationship with India
    The Foreign Minister says an historic visit to Aotearoa New Zealand by the Indian Foreign Minister provides an opportunity to strengthen the relationship in areas like people to people exchanges and climate action. Nanaia Mahuta today welcomed Minister of External Affairs Dr. Subrahmanyam Jaishankar with a mihi whakatau ceremony and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Prime Minister’s Christmas Card Competition
    It’s that time of year again! If you’d like to help design the Prime Minister’s official Christmas card, here’s how to take part: Draw, paint, sketch or craft an image you’d like to see on the front of this year’s Christmas card. It can be anything you want – ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Construction starts on Taranaki’s largest ever roading project
    Associate Minister of Transport Kieran McAnulty was joined this morning by Ngāti Tama, local councillors and board members, project representatives, and community to mark the official start of construction on Taranaki’s largest ever roading project, Te Ara o Te Ata: Mt Messenger Bypass. “The work started today will make sure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Hundreds to benefit from additional maternal health support
    The Government’s Budget 2022 investment of $10.1 million over four years in maternal mental health will result in better and more widely available care for new and expectant mothers around the country. The funding will be invested to fill gaps in care identified by last year’s maternal mental health stocktake ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Planting forests that are good for nature, climate, and the economy
    Public consultation opens on how forests are managed through the National Environmental Standards for Plantation Forestry (NES-PF), including: Giving local councils more control over where forests are planted   Managing the effects of exotic carbon forestry on nature Improving wildfire management in all forests. Addressing the key findings of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Trade Minister heads to CPTPP Commission Meeting
    Minister for Trade and Export Growth, Damien O’Connor will travel to Singapore this week for the Sixth Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Commission Meeting. “Continuing to build on our export growth is a key part of the Government’s economic plan. Our two way trade with the CPTPP bloc accounts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Strong Government books leave New Zealand well placed amid global challenges
      Deficit half of forecast at $9.7 billion; Deficits as a percentage of GDP running better than during GFC Net debt at 17.2 percent of GDP lower than Australia, UK, US and Canada. Core expenses $2.8 billion lower than forecast. Increased expenditure during year due to COVID-related expenses through unprecedented ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Ministers outline next phase of Milford Opportunities Project
    The Milford Opportunities Project is entering its next phase following a productive visit to Piopiotahi to hear directly from tourism operators, iwi and the unit undertaking feasibility planning, says Conservation Minister Poto Williams. In June 2021 Cabinet approved $15 million to fund the next stage of the Milford Opportunities Project, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Digital tools to make family violence support widely available
    Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment Priyanca Radhakrishnan has officially launched a suite of new digital tools to support people affected by family violence. “Family violence is a scourge on our society and violent behaviour of any kind is absolutely unacceptable. We are taking the important steps to modernise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Plan for big boost in GP training numbers
    More support is being given to New Zealand medical graduates training to be GPs, as the Government continues its push to get more doctors into communities. “Growing the number of GPs is vital so we can fill today’s gaps and make sure we’ve got the doctors we need in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 142,000 Kiwis helped by Healthy Homes Initiative
    Hospitalisations reduced by 19.8 percent School attendance increased by 3 percent Employment increased by 4 percent 100,000 interventions delivered, including insulation, heaters, curtains and repairs Nationwide rollout expected to be complete by the end of the year More than 31,000 children, pregnant people and 111,000 of their family members are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister of Defence departs for Middle East
    Minister of Defence Peeni Henare has today departed for the Middle East where he will visit New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel deployed within the region, including in Operation Gallant Phoenix in Jordan and the Multinational Force and Observers mission on the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt. The Minister will also undertake ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government funds work to clean up six contaminated sites
    The Government has announced funding to clean up six contaminated sites to reduce the risk to public health and protect the environment.    “These six projects will help protect the public from health risks associated with hazardous materials, so New Zealanders can live in a cleaner, safer environment.” Environment Minister David Parker ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partners with industry to reduce agricultural emissions
    New Zealand’s effort to reduce agricultural emissions has taken a step forward with the signing of a memorandum of understanding by Government with agribusiness leaders, in a joint venture as part of the new Centre for Climate Action on Agricultural Emissions, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced. The Ministry for Primary Industries signed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Vosa Vakaviti sustains generations of Fijians
    The enduring strength and sustainability of Vosa Vakaviti is being celebrated by the Fijian community in Aotearoa New Zealand during Macawa ni Vosa Vakaviti – Fijian Language Week, which gets underway today. “This year’s theme, ‘Me vakabulabulataki, vakamareqeti, ka vakaqaqacotaki na vosa Vakaviti’, which translates as ‘Nurture, Preserve and Sustain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand condemns Russia’s annexation attempts
    New Zealand condemns unequivocally Russia’s attempts to illegally annex Russia-occupied regions of Ukraine, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says. “We do not recognise these illegal attempts to change Ukraine’s borders or territorial sovereignty,” Jacinda Ardern said. “Russia’s sham referenda in Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia are illegitimate, and have no legal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government provides confidence to those seeking an adventure
    With our borders opened and tourists returning, those seeking out adventurous activities can do so more safely due to the steps we’ve taken to improve the health and safety regulatory regime for adventure activities, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood has announced.  “We are seeing international visitor numbers begin ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New hospital opens for Wellington children
    A new children’s hospital that officially opened in Wellington this morning offers the region’s children top-quality health care in one place, Health Minister Andrew Little says. Te Wao Nui has been built with a $53 million contribution from benefactors Mark Dunajtschik and Dorothy Spotswood, with the Government contributing another $53 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • More single-use plastics banned from tomorrow
    Single-use plastic cotton buds, drink stirrers and most plastic meat trays are among single use plastics banned from sale or manufacture from tomorrow. “This is the first group of the most problematic plastic products to be banned in a progressive phase out over the next three years,” Environment Minister David ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to NZDF Command and Staff College
    It’s a pleasure to join you today – and I extend a particular welcome to Marty Donoghue (a member of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control) and Athena Li-Watts (interning with me this week) who are also joining me today. On the face of it, some ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Milestone of half a million mental health sessions delivered
    The Government’s flagship primary mental health and addiction programme Access and Choice has hit the milestone of delivering more than 500,000 sessions to New Zealanders needing mental health support. Health Minister Andrew Little made the announcement at ADL – Thrive Pae Ora in Cromwell which provides mental wellbeing support services ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government continues to future-proof arts, culture and heritage sector
    The Government has announced further support for the recovery and resilience of the arts, culture and heritage sector as part of its COVID Recovery Programme’s Innovation Fund. “We’re continuing to secure the recovery of our arts, culture and heritage in Aotearoa New Zealand by supporting transformational initiatives across the motu,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government steps up kauri protection
    The Government is delivering on an election commitment to protect kauri in our northern forests through the new National Pest Management Plan (NPMP) for the forest giant and the allocation of $32 million of funding to back the coordinated effort, Biosecurity Minister Damien O'Connor and Associate Environment Minister (Biodiversity) ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Russia’s Ukraine referenda a sham
    Aotearoa New Zealand does not recognise the results of the sham referenda in Russia-occupied regions of Ukraine, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta says.  “These so-called referenda were not free or fair, and they very clearly were not held in accordance with democratic principles,” Nanaia Mahuta said. “Instead, they were hastily organised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt invests in New Zealand’s wine future
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has officially opened New Zealand Wine Centre–Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa in Blenheim today, saying that investments like these give us cause for optimism for the future. Funding of $3.79 million for the Marlborough Research Centre to build a national wine centre was announced in 2020, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Appointment of Judges of the Court Martial Appeal Court
    Attorney-General David Parker today announced the appointment of Colonel Craig Ruane, Commander Robyn Loversidge, and James Wilding KC as Judges of the Court Martial Appeal Court. The Court Martial Appeal Court is a senior court of record established under the Court Martial Appeals Act 1953. It is summoned by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government strengthens measures to combat migrant worker exploitation
    Offence and penalty regime significantly strengthened New infringement offences for non-compliance Public register of individuals and businesses that are found guilty of migrant exploitation New community-led pilot to educate migrants workers and employers of employment rights Implemented reporting tools successfully brings exploitation out of the shadows Take-up of protective visa ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Livestock exports by sea to cease
    The passing of a Bill today to end the export of livestock by sea will protect New Zealand’s reputation for world-leading animal welfare standards, Minister of Agriculture Damien O’Connor said. “The Animal Welfare Amendment Bill future-proofs our economic security amid increasing consumer scrutiny across the board on production practices," Damien ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra measures to increase census turnout in 2023
    3500 census workers on the ground, twice as many as last census More forms to be delivered – 44% compared to 3% in 2018 Prioritisation of Māori and other groups and regions with lower response rates in 2018 Major work to ensure the delivery of a successful census in 2023 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Shining the light on screen workers
    Improved working conditions for workers in the screen industry is now a reality with the Screen Industry Workers Bill passing its third reading today, announced Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood. “It’s fantastic to see the Screen Industry Workers Bill progress through Parliament. The new Act will strengthen protections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Mental health resources for young people and schools launched
    Associate Minister of Education (School Operations) Jan Tinetti and Associate Minister of Education (Māori Education) Kelvin Davis have today launched two new resources to support wellbeing, and the teaching and learning of mental health education in schools and kura. “Students who are happy and healthy learn better. These resources ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Progress continues on future-proofing Auckland’s transport infrastructure
    Transport Minister Michael Wood has welcomed the latest progress on Auckland’s two most transformational transport projects in a generation – Auckland Light Rail and the Additional Waitematā Harbour Connections. Auckland Light Rail and Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency have named preferred bidders to move each project to their next phase, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government supports local innovation in homelessness prevention
    Ten successful applicants in round two of the Local Innovation and Partnership Fund (LIPF) Close to $6 million allocated as part of the Homelessness Action Plan (HAP) Māori, Pasefika and rangatahi a strong focus Round three opening later this year with up to $6.8 million available. Government is stepping up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More medicines for New Zealanders, thanks to Govt’s Budget boost
    Health Minister Andrew Little is welcoming news that two more important medicines are set to be funded, thanks to the Government’s big boost to the country’s medicines budget. “Since coming into Government in 2017, the Labour Government has increased Pharmac’s funding by 43 per cent, including a $71 million boost ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government delivers ACC change to support 28,000 parents
    The Maternal Birth Injury and Other Matters Bill passes Third Reading – the first amendment to ACC legislation of its kind From 1 October 2022, new ACC cover to benefit approximately 28,000 birthing parents Additional maternal birth injuries added alongside new review provision to ensure cover remains comprehensive Greater clarity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further cuts for East Coast tarakihi limits to rebuild numbers faster
    Commercial catch limits for East Coast tarakihi will be reduced further to help the stock rebuild faster. “Tarakihi is a popular fish, and this has led to declining levels over time. Many adjustments have been made and the stock is recovering. I have decided on further commercial catch reductions of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago