I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
It has been a problem ever since central banks in America, Japan and Europe began Quantitative Easing (QE) or money printing over a decade ago during the Global Financial Crisis: the new money didn't circulate and generate much new investment or spending or economic growth. It was just parked in bank accounts or piles of actual cash, or other unproductive stores of value such as gold, art, property and yachts.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
The banks have been much more active in the housing market, including $5.2b in July to existing home owners and rental property investors, up 24 percent from June and back above its pre-lockdown levels in March.
That has helped perk up housing activity and lifted house values in areas with housing shortages and that are less reliant on overseas tourists, students and investors. Values in places such as Rotorua, Wellington, Whanganui and Palmerston North are up by double digit amounts from a year ago
The Reserve Bank is beginning to agitate with the banks about the lack of lending to businesses and may yet try to force them to direct lending to businesses.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
Better manufacturing
Extraction and processing of our resources
Better schooling up to and including doctorate level
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
Communities earmarked for greater density were given $10,000 each to develop their plans. That done, they got further funding for the next stage – but only if they could prove they had reached out to every part of the community and hadn’t let the usual suspects dominate.
Officials supported these “citizen planners” with neighbourhood design toolkits and software that mapped demographics, land use and transport flows. The community plans were then tested at “alternatives fairs”, sent to residents for approval, reviewed by officials, and subjected to neighbourhood hearings. Displaying remarkable engagement, some 20,000-30,000 residents took part in a city of 560,000.
After years of conflict, the process brought together politicians, neighbourhood leaders, and even local groups that had formerly been at loggerheads. Best of all, it delivered densification: added together, the neighbourhood plans provided all the housing the council had sought.
Along the way, a pro-development, anti-Nimby constituency was born. Seattle today remains – for various reasons – one of the few American cities to be densifying effectively. Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.” All this might seem counterintuitive, given Seattle’s previous animus towards densification. Two factors made the difference: control and environment.
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.”
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
Amnesty International executive director Meg de Ronde said she was appalled by the report's findings.
"What this report paints is the possibility of a tinderbox situation," she said. "If force is not being used as a last resort, and the culture is being called punitive, this could have real flow-on effects for interactions between prison guards and people who are locked up."
Alan Whitley, president of CANZ, the union representing corrections officers, said the use of force was increasing because assaults on corrections officers were increasing.
As a result of an assault there is an action and the action is generally trying to shut the prisoner down. It can be done in a number of ways. It can be hands on, trying to get them to calm down, bringing them down to the floor. It could also be deploying and using pepper spray."
The review also says the medical needs of prisoners are not being met because of poor leadership and health staffing levels being at about half what is needed.
"ARWCF has a large demand for health services but doesn't seem to have the health staff to match or custodial staff to get prisoners to and from health appointments," the review says.
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
Staff at the prison's health unit complained to the reviewer that rather than respond to requests for medical assistance, guards were telling inmates to fill out complaint forms.
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
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However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
Throw them in jail? How long?
Fine them? How much?
Both?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
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I think the ban is a total and unnecessary overreaction
These yachts are their homes and insurers don't cover battered yachts
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
Close the border, ditch the Auckland CBD hotels and use the recently refurbished Mangere refugee resettlement centre – it's not like that is being used
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
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Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
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"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
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RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
The causes of the French Revolution are complex and are still debated among historians. The American Revolution helped set the stage for the events of the French Revolution, having shown France that a rebellion based on Enlightenment principles, including natural rights and equality for all citizens, against an authoritarian regime could succeed.
"Thousands of men and even many women gained firsthand experience in the political arena: they talked, read, and listened in new ways; they voted; they joined new organisations; and they marched for their political goals. Revolution became a tradition, and republicanism an enduring option."
"Some historians argue that the French people underwent a fundamental transformation in self-identity, evidenced by the elimination of privileges and their replacement by rights as well as the growing decline in social deference that highlighted the principle of equality throughout the Revolution. The Revolution represented the most significant and dramatic challenge to political absolutism up to that point in history and spread democratic ideals throughout Europe and ultimately the world. Throughout the 19th century, the revolution was heavily analysed by economists and political scientists, who saw the class nature of the revolution as a fundamental aspect in understanding human social evolution itself. This, combined with the egalitarian values introduced by the revolution, gave rise to a classless and co-operative model for society called "socialism" which profoundly influenced future revolutions in France and around the world."
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
"Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'".
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
"My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first."
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
…
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
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How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
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What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
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David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The cruelty of short-term memory loss is that each time you ask where she is, you get the fresh shock and grief of the news. That was Dad's day yesterday.Comfortingly, it seems to be less so today. Last night he looked crumpled, today he seems more settled. There's a card ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
Analysis - Nicola Willis is holding firm on tax cuts despite the economic outlook being worse than forecast and critics urging her to wait, writes Peter Wilson for The Week In Politics. ...
Opposition MPs and unions are criticising a proposal by New Zealand’s Ministry of Pacific Peoples to cut staff by 40 percent. The country’s largest trade union — The Public Service Association — says the ministry has informed staff that it is looking to shed 63 of 156 positions. Opposition MPs ...
A poem by Poetry Aotearoa Yearbook 2024 featured poet Carin Smeaton. Daughtr of the 90s when she gets promoted to usherette a baby blu eel carries her all the way up to mothership she’s hovering high she lets the underaged in to see keanu reeves she lets the only lonely ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin, trained as an economic historian, is a retired lecturer in Economics and Statistics. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand. My earlier article – Can ‘Good’ be the Greater Evil? – looked at the issue of how wars should end, and how Good versus Evil ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 AMMA by Saraid de Silva (Moa Press, $38)A stunning debut novel reviewed by Brannavan ...
From Steve Martin to Ricky Stanicky, a pick’n’mix of things worth watching and listening to this long weekend. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. If you’re at a loss for something to occupy yourself with this Easter, don’t panic: The Spinoff’s got ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time – but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “It’s official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “we’re in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
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Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University It’s Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether you’re a boomer, or an ‘80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Senior Lecturer and General Dentist, School of Dentistry, The University of Queensland Casezy idea/Shutterstock How does toothpaste work? What did people use before toothpaste was invented? – Amelia, age 7, Meanjin (Brisbane) Thanks for your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Hallam, Associate professor, UNSW Sydney IM Imagery/Shutterstock Solar SunShot is well named. The Australian government announced today it would plough A$1 billion into bringing back solar manufacturing to Australia, boosting energy security, swapping coal and gas jobs for those ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems there’s one luxury most Australians won’t sacrifice – their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Education’s claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxon’s fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
Kiwis Against Seabed mining today slammed Australian owned would-be seabed miner Trans Tasman Resources (TTR) for abandoning its application to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to mine the seabed of the South Taranaki Bight. The company ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Associate Professor, School of Social Sciences, The University of Western Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Months after COVID vaccines were introduced in 2021, governments and private organisations mandated them for various groups. Health and aged care workers were among the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dzurak, Scientia Professor Andrew Dzurak, CEO and Founder of Diraq, UNSW Sydney Diraq For decades, the pursuit of quantum computing has struggled with the need for extremely low temperatures, mere fractions of a degree above absolute zero (0 Kelvin or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Essential poll, conducted March 20–24 from a sample of 1,150, gave the Coalition a 50–44 lead including undecided, a reversal ...
The Taxpayers’ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the People’s Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Nelson, Honorary Principal Fellow, The University of Melbourne A Byzantine depiction of the Eucharist in Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv.Jacek555/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA A nasty quarrel arose in the 11th century over what kind of bread should be used in holy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Hesp, Professor, Flinders University Patrick Hesp In some parts of Australia, coastal dunes are retreating from the ocean at an alarming rate, as waves carve up the beach and wind blows the sand inland. But coastal communities are largely ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Heemsbergen, Senior Lecturer, Digital, Political, Media, Deakin University With an impressive 60% of the US smartphone market, Apple is undeniably big, but not a clear monopoly. Yet, years of innovation by Apple have effectively given the company its own exclusive ...
Whether you’re facing layoffs or are just an emotional junior staffer, it’s always a good idea to scout out a good crying place before you need it. It’s an incredibly hard time for Wellington. Across the city, thousands of public servants are hearing tough news about redundancies and layoffs. Government ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Miller-Jones, Professor, Curtin University Nuclear explosions on a neutron star feed its jets. Danielle Futselaar and Nathalie Degenaar, Anton Pannekoek Institute, University of Amsterdam, CC BY-SA How fast can a neutron star drive powerful jets into space? The answer, it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daryl Adair, Associate Professor of Sport Management, University of Technology Sydney Earlier this week, independent MP Andrew Wilkie accused the AFL of conducting “off the books” illicit drug testing to identify players using substances of abuse, then inappropriately withdrawing them from matches ...
The Government’s announcement that it will scrap plans for a vast marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands is ‘shameful’ and will make it impossible for Aotearoa New Zealand to meet its international commitments, says the World Wide Fund for Nature ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland Shutterstock The federal government has bowed to pressure from the car industry, announcing it will relax proposed emissions rules for utes and vans and delay enforcement of the new standards ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suzanne Rutland, Professor Emerita, University of Sydney In his latest book, Jewish Life in Medieval Spain, Jonathan Ray focuses on the tumult of the 14th century in Spain – a time of the plague, civil strife and war between the two largest ...
While creating a slate of world-class shows, Whakaata Māori also developed a generation of world-class creatives. Television is an odd word. It mixes the Ancient Greek and Latin languages, and its most literal meaning is “far-off sight”. In the contemporary and living language of te reo Māori, “whakaata” as a ...
Yesterday the UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza. This significant step and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza prompted an urgent debate in the New Zealand Parliament. Leader ...
The Government’s decision to reduce access to continuous glucose monitors (CGM) not only threatens the lives of children with type 1 diabetes and increases the potential for ‘Dead in Bed’ syndrome, but also threatens the health of their parents an ...
Apples are available year-round, but the wide variety on offer involves intensive scientific research – and large-scale commercialisation. What’s beautiful, red, sweet and crunchy? Tony Martin’s favourite kind of apple: Sassy. The CEO of apple and pear breeding organisation Prevar, Martin’s fondness for Sassy represents professional success as well as ...
Family violence specialist service Shine is calling on employers to stop asking for proof of domestic violence in order for employees to access domestic violence leave. The call comes five years after the introduction of the Domestic Violence ...
The Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee is calling for public submissions on the Budget Policy Statement 2024. The Budget Policy Statement 2024 (BPS) sets out the Government's priorities for the 2024 Budget. It explains the approach ...
Brutal government spending cuts that will see the size of the Ministry for Pacific Peoples slashed by 40% will hit Pasifika communities hard, the PSA says. The Ministry has told staff that it is seeking voluntary redundancies, and to redeploy and reassign ...
I live with five people I mostly love, but our different ideas about generosity are starting to really irk me.Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,This is a bit of a random one but here goes. I’m 22 and work an OK job (OK meaning I get paid ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Maria Nicholas, Senior Lecturer in Language and Literacy Education, Deakin University Earlier this month, the New South Wales government announced it would roll out programs for gifted students in every public school in the state. This comes amid concerns gifted school ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Rudge, Law lecturer, University of Sydney Massachusetts General Hospital In a world first, we heard last week that US surgeons had transplanted a kidney from a gene-edited pig into a living human. News reports said the procedure was a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tombs, Howard Paterson Chair of Theology and Public Issues, University of Otago The 5th-century Maskell panel showing Jesus in a loincloth.British Museum, CC BY-NC-SA When Jesus is shown on the cross, he is almost always depicted wearing a loincloth around ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University Shutterstock When you think about a red object, you might picture a red carpet, or the massive ruby in the Queen’s crown. Indeed, Western monarchies and marketing from brands such ...
COMMENTARY:Jewish Voice for Peace The UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza on Monday — and for the first time since the beginning of the Israeli military’s genocide of Palestinians, the United States abstained rather than vetoing it. Security Council resolutions are legally binding, ...
Asia Pacific Report A New Zealand investigative journalist and author says the US spy system hosted by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) appears to be a controversial intelligence system used in global capture-kill operations. Writing a commentary for RNZ News today, Nicky Hager, author of Secret Power, a 1996 ...
While Nicola Willis wouldn’t give any details on its size, she said a package of tax cuts is definitely still coming in this year’s budget, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
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NZ "First" still wanting to help the Fishing Industry screw our ever diminishing Marine species…
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/rural/425397/new-zealand-first-cautious-about-plan-to-install-hundreds-more-cameras-on-fishing-boats
Shane …Jones. Fark I hope he's kicked to touch. Cmon Willow Jean : ) !!
More reason's not to vote NZFirst – if you really needed any more that is.
I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
There are good options though, the government just aren't taking them because it would destroy capitalism.
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Interesting. so no matter how rotten your team have shown themselves to be you will still support them.
Of course he will. Wayne shows all the hallmarks of being an Authoritarian Follower.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
"Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?"
Not one they are brave enough to present to the voting public….and with that absence its credibility cannot be judged.
Or worse, the only plan is the continuation of the growth via migration model.
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The government could even do it for mortgages.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
https://ojs.aut.ac.nz/te-kaharoa/index.php/tekaharoa/article/view/96/90
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/want-to-build-high-rise-homes-for-74000-more-people-in-wellington-build-consensus-first/ar-BB18Kq2A
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
[link added – weka]
Thanks Weka. Must've had a senior moment. 😳
DF Quote from Back to the Future – "You are my density". With you at the helm we might get the destiny that is possible if we get OAIG.
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
@tc.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
Did you see the moaning sheila they found yesterday going on about getting promotional materials from the hotel she was quarantined in.
Fuck you would think she had been forced to sleep in the broom closet with a bucket to piss in .
Or worse, a bucket to sleep in!
John Clarke come back, you are missed terribly.
Both of 'em.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
so nothing really has changed there then? NZ Prisons in NZ, no change between the red or blue team, they all don’t care.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362662
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
@ Redlogix.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
The two faces of Duncan Garner
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/duncan-garner-we-ve-told-yachties-stranded-in-the-pacific-they-re-not-welcome-how-bloody-miserable-and-mean-spirited-can-we-be.html
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/duncan-garner-new-zealand-must-temporarily-close-its-borders-to-new-arrivals-from-today.html
Earlier.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/06/duncan-garner-it-s-time-to-completely-shut-new-zealand-s-border-returning-kiwis-included.html
Earlier still he was a chamipoon of a bubble with Oz. Oz tourists have money.
French Polynesia took that line – and tried to safely take in tourists. Not successfully – and now there is community spread.
Apologies
But what do you mean by this?
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Read the link. Garner claims those on board cannot arrive still infectious because it takes three weeks to travel here.
Brain cells needed for that. Garner seems to have forsaken the use of them.
The two faces of David Seymour
1. There cannot be an election unless we are at level 1.
2. We should let coronavirus spread.
There is no chance of being at Level 1 if there is spread.
We had this beat up a couple of weeks ago
French Polynesia has had about 13 hurricanes in the last 60 years
They have only hit the top two of the 5 island groups making up the territory.
The hurricanes happen when there is a certain variant of the La Nina current – so pretty predictable.
Somebody on here who had sailed said a 21 day open water passage is likely more dangerous than staying put.
Duncan should check a few facts.
Then there are the idiots from here who sailed up to Fiji and who I now assume want to come back.
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
https://niwa.co.nz/climate/information-and-resources/elnino
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
Just as the US oligarchy is not a Democracy.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
Christianity, even at its most grassroots form, never got hospitality as well as Islam did and still does.
@Redlogix.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Some might regard such redistribution as "tearing everything down"; theft even(!) – I see it as a way of building societal resilience and sustainability. https://thestandard.org.nz/nurses-ask-us-to-vote-for-our-health/#comment-1317498
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Still, can't say it hasn't been fun.
Hindsight wisdom, but over-simplified.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
Good morning.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
@Wayne.
I agree.
However I though National's policy, and many in Parliamentary Labours, was to "leave it to the market". Making Government future planning obsolete.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
Policies building for a sustainable future seem to have been left to the Greens.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
@ KJT and RedLogix, if you wish, maybe you could continue your conversation in OM, yes?
Unfortunately, because of the dysfunctional reply functionality on the site I cannot move the thread from Mike’s Post to OM.
There is a NZ blogsite that pops up regularly in the Feeds section that you may have missed 😉
is the move to OM not working? Or there are too many to move because they're not threaded?
Because they’re not threaded. I suppose this doesn’t stop moving them to OM and both KJT and RedLogix seem ok with that 🙂
Done
Yes if possible it should be moved, it's clearly drifted OT.
Done
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
isn't that what fit young nephews and nieces are for, lead acid batteries up three flights of stairs.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
(This from Variety – sounds like something to do with the arts. Why would they have it in for the BBC?)
The BBC Has a New Boss. Will He Enforce the Radical Change it Needs to Survive?
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/tim-davie-bbc-director-general-first-week-1234758553/
(This from the Financial Times.)
Tim Davie, the new no-nonsense BBC boss
https://www.ft.com/content/a27e9f84-009d-46e2-9495-a5c4973591fa
Oh Great, how encouraging. I gather that TVNZ's current CEO is a man from the bloody marketing industry – if you can call it that.
I would have preferred Andrew Davies – that great guy who wrote "A Very Peculiar Practice", and many other worthwhile TV productions.
We have the wrong idiots in charge of things!
edit
How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Do you often look for a connection between apparently unrelated things?
I don't see "paying down public debt" anywhere in the stuff article.
Fair point
At least now we can kind of guess the priorities.
Well, yeah, given that a new public holiday isn't the only policy Labour's announced so far.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Shit, I missed it. What was it? Lemme guess, it was tax cuts or a bonfire of regulations, right?
Schools! So many schools! Beautiful schools! And infrastructure thingummies! In ten to thirty years!
If they are a bit slow on the school thingies, National could well have us Predator-Free and with Beautiful schools by 2050..
I bet our schoolkids can hardly wait! The kiwi birds will probably be extinct by 2050, so it won't matter to them.
But as John Key explained when one of his deadlines slipped by, the target was just 'aspirational' anyway.
But fail on building enough houses (when the previous government did fuckall) and you never hear the end of it.
" in the first 10 years of a three-decade school growth plan – a plan that is yet to be developed." So says the article McFlock directs us to.
When does a wish or an idea become a plan?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
"the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot"
???
I was thinking the more why are we talking about businesses having to pay for another public holiday while we are going to be into a recession.
If you are going to do it at least lose one of the others like Queens birthday.
It is just odd timing for this sort of policy.
Edit: Should add Kelvin Davis was just on Ryan Bridges show on the radio saying it is going to cost 230 odd million dollars a year….I mean wtf?
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
I never said there wasn't.
If you read my post I said lose one of the others if you are going to do it.
Believe me. I would love a public holiday in the massive gap we don't have one.
But just slapping in a new one during a recession is silly to me.
Edit: And did you even read my post. Kelvin Davis has said it would cost non tourist business up to 230 million dollars a year
to stimulate the local economy, a recession is exactly the right time to do it.
Maybe if you own a motel or a cafe, but everyone else, not so much
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
I dont suppose you could come out and say that you want to impose austerity to pay off the covid debt would you?
Their tax and economic policy would be handy.
Given they promised it before the election
Prime Minister Ardern wanks to make Matariki a public holiday.
I say that's an excellent idea.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/winston-peters-again-veers-coalition-partners-says-now-isnt-time-matariki-public-holiday
(the Greens like it as well).
It's a sure-fire way to keep all those Maori seats in Labour's hands in 2020 and beyond.
That's either one helluva typo or an awesome freudian slip.
The proposal itself is excellent and way overdue, tho.
Sorry for the spelling mistake. Almost had a pubic holiday.
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Ha!
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Give up Christmas lamb? Sacrilege.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
Perhaps long weekends should be the standard
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-4-day-work-week-boosts-productivity-2019-11
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425427/keep-new-zealand-beautiful-misses-out-on-government-funding
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Isn’t Waitangi Day a uniquely New Zealand holiday? And also the various provincial anniversaries?
[I have deleted your surname from your user handle in case this was a mistake, as you previously had not included it – Incognito]
And Queen's Birthday. Nobody else celebrates that the same day we do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Official_Birthday
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
edit
What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Here are the intentions for hospital care during L2
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/health-and-disability-services-alert-level-2
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
@Ad. 20. Of course the Greens like it. It has been a Green policy forever.