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Open mike 07/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 7th, 2013 - 164 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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164 comments on “Open mike 07/02/2013 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    7 February 2013 at 7:15 am

    TOTALITARIANISM NEWS
    The state-led persecution of Assange continues

    From a Sydney Morning Herald article by Elizabeth Farrelly….

    Assange notes that ”not even the most rabid or hawkish general in the Pentagon has produced evidence or even claimed that we have led to the death or harming of any person – and if we had, they most certainly would”.

    As to ”facing the music”, everything hinges on the genuineness of the case and the probability of a fair trial.

    Here, it’s critical how far the two simultaneous cases – of ”rape” in Sweden and of illegal publishing in the US – are in fact separate. If the ”rape” case is genuine, the Swedish government should have no problem (a) sending the prosecutor to interview Assange in London, as repeatedly invited, (b) if necessary, charging him here and (c) guaranteeing against his extradition to the United States.

    The Australian government should be strenuously advocating to this end. In fact, both governments have not only refused such guarantees but have actively maligned Assange in a way that diminishes his chance of fair trial in either country. The Swedish prosecutor has said Assange will be seized and imprisoned – potentially in solitary, incommunicado and indefinitely – the minute he sets foot there.

    The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has never retracted her public (mis)statement that Assange had committed ”an illegal act”. The Swedish Prime Minister, Frederik Reinfeldt, has never retracted his public mis-statement that Assange had been charged with rape. Why not?

    Assange points out that Sweden’s is a culture of profound conformism; a population half the size of Australia’s with a language spoken (and a culture therefore scrutinised) by no one else on earth. A country that, unlike say Germany, ”never denazified” after World War II. Never pushed the reset button.

    So when the Social Minister, Goran Hagglund, publicly describes Assange as ”sick … a coward … a lowlife … a pitiful wretch”, and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs tweets ”you do not dictate the terms if you are a suspect. Get it?”, the press follow suit.

    Sweden’s largest-circulation daily, Dagens Nyheter, calls Assange ”paranoid” and a ”querulant”. A prominent journalist for the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, Martin Aagard, calls him an ”Australian pig”, linking Assange with Rupert Murdoch. ”There are many good reasons to criticise Assange. One … is that he’s a repugnant swine.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/held-in-a-gilded-cage-optimism-still-reigns-supreme-for-assange-20130206-2dykj.html#ixzz2K8yacMEj

  2. bad12 2
    7 February 2013 at 7:45 am

    The placing of the building company Mainzeal into receivership seems to have at its heart the supposed non-payment of as little as 1.2 million dollars from the parent company Richina-Pacific,

    Mainzeal construction is contrary to my initial belief currently fulfilling contract work in Christchurch and it appears that such work was guaranteed into the future,

    It appears that the Bank(s) that are owed 20 million dollars by Mainzeal construction did not instigate the receivership of Mainzeal,

    Into the picture comes ex-National Party Leader Jenni Shitly who as Chairman of Mainzeal’s board of directors approached the Bank(s) to have the company She sits at the head of placed into receivership,

    Who would have thunk it…

    • marsman 2.1
      7 February 2013 at 8:21 am

      Very interesting bad12. The same Shitly, as you so aptly call her, is I’m sure also on the Board of Fletcher’s AND she is of course on the Christchurch re-building Committee. Someone needs to take a good look at all of that old trougher’s activities and what vested interests she has.

      • bad12 2.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 9:32 am

        I am still trying to get a complete view of the occurrences surrounding Shitly’s role in the receivership of Mainzeal Construction,

        It appears that there has been an attempt to remove Her as a director of at least one board of Directors connected with the Mainzeal Group of companies,

        It also appears that Shitly and at least 3 other’s resigned as Directors from Mainzeal Construction it’self a number of months ago,

        Are we looking at a Boardroom power struggle here that as a consequence has the ability to collapse up to a third of the building industry in Auckland,

        People connected with the industry talking on RadioNZ as i type this comment are talking 1200 employers and employees who are unsecured creditors who will get it in the neck if Mainzeal folds completely or ‘morphs’ into a different company altogether…

    • David H 2.2
      7 February 2013 at 8:24 am

      Makes it easy for Shitley & co so pick it up cheaply, And then run it into the ground, and make a killing on the backs of honest workers, who are the ones who pay the price for such avarice.

      • vto 2.2.1
        7 February 2013 at 8:35 am

        That should be looked into very closely. She is known to do the underhand under the table deals for exchanges.

      • Jenny 2.2.2
        7 February 2013 at 8:38 am

        So let’s get this clear. The banks are quite happy with Mainzeal’s repayment plans for paying back their debt of $20 million.

        But Shipely who is also a director for a competing company is winding Mainzeal up, and destroying the lives of many workers, over a debt of $1 million.

        My question is: Why isn’t this woman in prison?

        • The Al1en 2.2.2.1
          7 February 2013 at 8:44 am

          The Christchurch rebuild is a huge money trough.
          Not really surprised it’s surrounded by a greedy pig or six dozen waiting to chomp on, are we?

        • bad12 2.2.2.2
          7 February 2013 at 9:51 am

          I am starting to form the belief that the 1.2 or 1.8 million dollars that the RichinaPacific group was supposed to pay to Mainzeal Construction might have been to cover fees specifically to pay those directors that apparently quit the Board of Mainzeal construction some weeks/months ago???,

          I fail to understand how IF Shitly and a number of others quit as Board members of MainZeal Construction a number of weeks/months ago they can then approach the BNZ to have the company placed into receivership,

          Were Shitly and the other directors who quit the MainZeal Board owed directors fees and so as creditors of ‘some sort’ in a fit of pique moved to wind that company up???,

          Shiply’s Prime Minister ship under a National Government was at it’s best ‘Ugly’ and is this just another case of ‘uglyness’ from the former National Party Prime Minister not giving a toss how many get damaged or how severe that damage becomes both to the workers involved and the economy it’self…

          • Colonial Viper 2.2.2.2.1
            7 February 2013 at 9:59 am

            Were Shitly and the other directors who quit the MainZeal Board owed directors fees and so as creditors of ‘some sort’ in a fit of pique moved to wind that company up???,

            I certainly hope so, becaause it might be demonstrated that they acted against the best interests of the company and its shareholders, as directors.

            • bad12 2.2.2.2.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 10:44 am

              But that is the question CV, were they directors when yesterday they approached the BNZ to place Mainzeal Construction into receivership,

              My impression is that Shitly and at least 3 others resigned from the board of Mainzeal weeks or months ago,

              The question that arises from this is did Shiply use Her profile as a former Prime Minister and Her present connections to the Slippery lead National Government to leverage the BNZ to call in the receivers,

              If She was not a director of the company then the only right to demand the BNZ place Mainzeal into receivership would seem to come about by being a secured creditor or perhaps an unsecured creditor…

      • bad12 2.3.1
        7 February 2013 at 9:17 am

        You call that piece of sanitized garbage ‘facts’, nice try but an absolute FAIL just like the Slippery lead National Government you support is,

        Was Jenny Shitly lying to New Zealand when She appeared on my TV news last night stating that it was She that approached the BNZ to have the company put into receivership,

        She appears to have major issues of conflicting interests where She is on the boards of various companies which will directly profit from the Christchurch rebuild and also a representative of the structure that is charged with allocating work and thus allocating Government funds,but, trust the Herald to not even mention such a tangled web of connections…

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.3.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 9:21 am

          Is Jenny Shipley now divine?

          • bad12 2.3.1.1.1
            7 February 2013 at 9:40 am

            NO, but you are still the gormless fool around here…

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.3.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 10:09 am

              I know you think that this is an insult, bad12, but you might want to reflect that it is a name I have given to myself. You may like to consider that, under these circumstances, the scope for wounding me with this name is rather diminished.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                7 February 2013 at 10:31 am

                …but you might want to reflect that it is a name I have given to myself.

                Nope, it was a name that Lprent gave you and which you then took for yourself as you thought it was amusing.

              • bad12 …
                7 February 2013 at 10:36 am

                How divine of you to say so, nonetheless a gormless fool you are…

  3. Jenny 3
    7 February 2013 at 8:10 am

    Dear friends:

    PLEASE COME AND HEAR UK DOCO-MAKER HARRY FEAR, & ROGER FOWLER REPORT BACK ON THEIR RECENT FACT-FINDING MISSION TO GAZA WHEN THE ISRAELI BOMBARDMENTS TOOK PLACE.

    TONIGHT: 7pm at AUCK UNIVERSITY LIBRARY Room B28.

    FREE SOUTH AUCKLAND BUS leaves at 6pm from the Mangere East Community Learning Centre, 372 Massey Rd (behind the Library).

    Lengendary reggae band ‘Unity Pacific’ will launch their stunning version of the Kia Ora Gaza solidarity anthem: “We Are All Palestinians”

    Palestinian dancers will welcome everyone. Not-to-be-missed. Bring your friends & family.

    No door charge, but donations welcome.

    Hosted by Students For Justice in Palestine. Organised by Kia Ora Gaza [Website: kiaoragaza.net. Email: office@kiaoragaza.net]

    > Subject: Auckland event: GAZA REPORT UK documentary maker & activist HARRY FEAR

    • Andre 3.1
      7 February 2013 at 10:20 am

      Like to go but, thought i would stay at home and watch another town in Syria being destroyed. Bought some chips … Tonight a apartment block is again destroyed.All dead… chive dips tonight .Hope those silly UN people do not spoil my entertainment Who cares? 65000 dead and counting.

  4. David H 4
    7 February 2013 at 8:20 am

    New unemployment numbers out this morning, I wonder how bad they will be, and how the Nats will spin them.

  5. marsman 5
    7 February 2013 at 8:44 am

    On TV One News last night they had a clip of John Key’s Waitangi Day speech whine about protesters. That was immediately followed by a clip of Titewhai Harawira’s reply that the potesters weren’t the problem but bad Govt policies were the the problem. Priceless.

    • blue leopard 5.1
      7 February 2013 at 10:05 am

      +1 Yes, also the comment by Peter Sharples, saying that he thought protest was perfectly o.k if people weren’t happy with something (can’t remember the exact words). I put up a comment on the Waitangi day thread re this, how the talk over referred to Key’s as a “broadside speech”. Good stuff TV1.

  6. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 6
    7 February 2013 at 9:08 am

    Heard Turei on the wireless yesterday praising Titewhai’s work as an anti violence campaigner. Guess she is willing to overlook the assault on the mental health patient under Harawira’s care.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1
      7 February 2013 at 9:19 am

      yeah mate, its called paying your debt to society and moving on.

      You, you need to keep paying, you’re not there yet.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 6.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 9:22 am

        Yet Turei is opposed to Mike Tyson coming to New Zealand on the basis of his violent past. Has he not paid his debt to society?

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 9:27 am

          Refer to the extended debate here on The Std about that. My position IRCC was that he probably should have been allowed into NZ, but plenty disagreed with me.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 6.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2013 at 9:35 am

            I don’t care about Tyson. If Turei’s position is that Harawira’s assault of a highly vulnerable person under her care can be overlooked because she has been punished for it, doesn’t she have to hold the same position in relation to Tyson?

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 9:39 am

              Does it need to be the same because you think the two crimes were the same, or because Turei is a computer programme which needs to generate the same result every time you press a button?

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                7 February 2013 at 9:44 am

                So, there are two classes of crime. One where we “move on” once the perpetrator pays his or her debt to society and one where we do not.

                Interesting.

                How do we decide which crimes fall into each class?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 February 2013 at 9:46 am

                  So tell me again why you think Turei needs to treat Tyson and Harawira the same? You know, before you move us on to some bullshit off track discussion.

                  • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                    7 February 2013 at 10:02 am

                    No. I accept I am wrong. It is just sensible for a person who assaults mentally ill people under her care to be praised for her anti-violence work on the basis that the crime can be forgotten once the sentence has been served. Contemporaneously, another person who has been convicted of a violent offence and served the penalty should be vilified.

                    It makes perfect sense when you think about it.

                    • felixviper …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:09 am

                      Hi Ole, you can’t really say that until you have thought about it.

                      Is Harawira still going around in public laughing and making jokes about violent assaults of exactly the type she committed? Does she still maintain that there was nothing wrong with what she did?

                      Are those relevant factors in your program at all?

                      Does that help you imagine any other possible factors that might be computed?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:13 am

                      You’re the only person here who can’t seem to get their head around the idea that many people make mistakes, and once they’ve repaid society, its time to let them move on. Nothing is forgotten. Maybe not even forgiven. So what’s illogical about it?

                      Just like a soldier who comes back from Afghanistan or Iraq and decides to become an anti-war campaigner because of what they’ve seen.

                      Or a drink driver who’s killed someone, coming out of jail and deciding to take a stance against drink driving because they’ve realised the harm it causes.

                      Or someone who has been convicted of family violence, standing up years later on TV speaking out against family violence because they’ve realised that other people need to hear their story too.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:15 am

                      Oh, she’s repentant? That changes everything, Felix.

                      Oh, got a link?

                      Meantime:

                      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=889385

                      Because in the background of every conversation with Mrs Harawira – and she is as aware of it as anyone – are the ghouls of her past. Not least her 1989 conviction for assaulting a psychiatric patient.

                      She says, emphatically, that she regrets nothing in her past – “No. Nothing.” If other people can’t get over it, well “that’s fine. I can accept that.”

                    • felixviper …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:20 am

                      Very good Ole, now you’re thinking. Any other differences you can think of?

                    • Colonial Weka …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:24 am

                      Many good anti-violence workers are good because they’ve had to deal with their own violence. You obviously know shit about this gormless, so give it up eh?

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:36 am

                      Not sure what the difference you are referring to is, Felix.

                      I have given up. Harawira beats up the most vulnerable members of society and is unrepentant about it. I accept that there is nothing wrong with this.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:42 am

                      I get it now Ole. You’d like Harawira to do a tearful mea culpa on Oprah. Because that would make all the difference to you.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      7 February 2013 at 11:15 am

                      Nope. I just want people to see her for what she is.

                    • felixviper …
                      7 February 2013 at 12:53 pm

                      “Not sure what the difference you are referring to is, Felix.”

                      Well for a start I don’t see Harawira repeatedly and publicly cracking jokes about what she did. That’d put her in a different category of bastard I’d have thought, ymmv.

                      I’d also note that the quote you linked to – worrying as it may be – wasn’t actually an answer to a question about the issue you (and the herald writer) are linking it to. Not that that’s necessarily important but context is usually worth noting.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 February 2013 at 6:13 pm

                      You just want people to see her for what she is – what a load of shit gormless – at least be honest ffs.

                      I have researched and written about Titewhai and I can fully understand her statement that she has nothing to regret in her past. I think she has a lot to be proud of – she was groomed for greatness by her grandfather and she has delivered on that, right from the time she started school. She has done more for the benefit of this country than 1000 john keys or any politician I can think of. That is what being a mana wahine means – not that you gormless would know the first thing about that.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      7 February 2013 at 8:39 pm

                      Marty, you are going to have to explain to me what is admirable about assaulting the mentally unwell.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 February 2013 at 9:49 pm

                      ah no I’m not – mainly because I am not buying into your bullshit – believe what you want – I just wanted other readers to hear a contrary view.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      7 February 2013 at 10:29 pm

                      It is bullshit that she was convicted of assaulting a mentally ill person who she was supposed to be looking after?

                      Or is the bullshit something else?

                    • Colonial Weka …
                      7 February 2013 at 11:14 pm

                      Marty, is any of your writing about Titewhai online? I’d be interested to read it. I had a look on your blog but couldn’t find it.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 February 2013 at 11:51 pm

                      No my writing on Titewhai is not online but was for a paper I did last year. However the interview below is illuminating even though it is from 2005.

                      http://www.radionz.co.nz/collections/treatyofwaitangi/audio/2533140/titewhai-harawira,-m-ori-activist

                      I’d ask that you notice how she handles the very, very nasty personal attacks.

                    • Colonial Weka …
                      8 February 2013 at 10:19 pm

                      Kiaora marty, that was a real treat. That degree of fearlessness is awesome. And yes I did note her handling of some pretty offensive questions.

  7. Mary 7
    7 February 2013 at 9:15 am

    Am probably way too late on this but No Right Turn’s take on Shearer’s “let’s all be nice” approach to Waitangi Day is spot on. Yet one more, but a pretty important, reminder about whether Shearer really is PM material.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/shearer-on-waitangi-day.html

    • Rosie 7.1
      7 February 2013 at 9:41 am

      Cheers Mary. Also last night on 3 News he was interviewed in regard to his view on the PM’s spazzo about “a few Maori extremists………protesters………..blah blah blah”. Shearer actually agreed that it was fine to say that…….”BUT, say it on the Marae and don’t say something like that and then go running of to your getaway plane”, or words to that effect.

      Part of that rang true, that is if you’re going to say something challenging don’t drop it and then run, stay to back it up, however the worse bit was that he seemed to agree that it was ok or even right to say it in the first place. I really don’t know where this guy is coming from.

      Apologies for repitition but if we are in any way going to make progress on the Left we really have to pull toegther and unify and most importantly educate and motivate those non voters. We already had a challenge but it has been made all the harder by the choice of leader for the Labour Party. Gawd, imagine what the leaders debates are going to be like next year:

      “errr, just, ummm, you know John, you do have a good point there but errrr, well………….” JK will be laughing like a school boy at his luck.

      • bad12 7.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 10:28 am

        What protests tho was Slippery the Prime Minister whining about, as Maanu Paul fromthe Maori Council put it such a simpering whine gave a great impression of a 4 year old having a wee wah wah wah over having lost His marbles, (in more than one way i would suggest Maanu),

        There were 30,000 people at Waitangi this year, a good mixture of both Maori and Pakeha and the only disruption was at the point of the Prime Minister being lead onto the Marae, as Winston Peters pointed out Slippery the Prime Minister brought this situation about because Marae protocol would be that it would be the guest being Karanga-ed onto the Marae who chooses which Kuia will accompany Him,

        It is more than obvious that Slippery expected a large hostile protest to be directed at Him at Waitangi and the fact that this failed to materialize has got our Prime Minister exhibiting,as He does when things don’t go His way, a childish snivel as if someone has snuck off with His marbles,

        Having a prepared speech directed at denigrating protestors at Waitangi the empty suitcase of intellectual rigor which is Slippery the Prime Minister of New Zealand having left the speech writers in Wellington did not have anything but the ability to address the breakfast gathering at the Waitangi Marae in terms of what was essentially bull defecation,

        Not having the stomach at the Marae to give that speech to those gathered on the paepae earlier in the proceedings as anyone with an ounce of ‘heart’ would have Slippery the Prime Minister then gave a grand display of yellow by scarpering out the back door for the safety of His waiting limo…

        • Rosie 7.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 11:18 am

          Hi bad12. Lol, you know shonkey doesn’t let the facts get the way of a good ol’ spin. My guess is that he saw Waitangi as a good opportunity to put some more wood on the fires of prejudice and ignorance. Its in his interests to keep the trad Pakeha Nat voters in an anti Maori frame of mind. He’s framing them as the bad guys challenging his asset sales mission and he needs to keep the division going in order to bring his trad voters to heel. They are making quiet nosies about not being happy about asset sales after all. What better way to stir the pot than to than to highjack an event that is bound in media sensation whose goal it is to paint those that need to air their legitimate grievances as “bad” as “separatists” or gasp, even “protesters” god forbid. etc. Suit his purposes does it not?

          Which reminds me: If y’all are in Wellington on Wednesday, 13th Feb head down to Frank Kitts Park at 6pm to the anti asset sales rally. Speakers include Jane Kelsey, Maanu Paul and Mayor Celia Wade-Brown.

          • Dr Terry 7.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2013 at 4:49 pm

            Very soon he will be calling them “terrorists” or “insurgents” or any other of these fiendish labels.

      • Mary 7.1.2
        7 February 2013 at 10:53 am

        Shearer’s performance shows how Labour deserves to lose the Maori vote. Even Winston Peters on Morning Report this morning showed he understands how integral robust discussion and protest over the big issues, including how entrenched disadvantage ignores the Treaty, are to the annual celebration. With Shearer at the reigns heaven help us. The guy really is a plonker.

    • A Bit Shit 7.2
      7 February 2013 at 5:02 pm

      Perhaps it is because David Shearer is actually just a bit shit?

      I dare you to watch the video without cringing. Goodluck Labour 2014!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FNpGC2YcRo&feature=youtu.be

      http://www.facebook.com/abitshit

  8. Bearded Git 8
    7 February 2013 at 9:20 am

    Poll in the Dom Post today shows 60% of people want a 4 year parliamentary term (28% 3 years). Labour/Greens might pick up a some votes by offering a 4-year term as a policy at the next election.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      7 February 2013 at 9:39 am

      I wondered about this. Shonkey and Shearer have another area of apparent agreement – they both want a 4 year term.

      • Pete 8.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 10:37 am

        Not a good idea, in my view. In a country without an upper chamber or a written constitution the only safeguard against parliamentary excess is frequent elections. Limiting our democracy an the absence of checks and balances would be harmful to our country.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 12:29 pm

          Why do people think that an upper chamber gives any safeguard against parliamentary excess? Just have to look at the US and the UK to see that that idea is a load of BS.

          A written constitution might do it – if you can get everyone to agree on what the constitution actually means.

    • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.2
      7 February 2013 at 10:24 am

      Four years would probably be best for effective policies to be seen to work or vice versa. But I would want to see leadership change be legislated for so that two terms would be all.

      It appears to me that many of these skilled trapeze artists who get to the big top, just can’t be got down again and they use their precocious skills to maintain their position and to hell with the rest of the circus.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1
        7 February 2013 at 10:36 am

        Better be careful with term limits for leaders. The USA never used to have term limits and who said they have done better with them.

        However something like a maximum of 5 consecutive terms (20 years) in Parliament might be an interesting thing to look at.

        • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.2.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 1:03 pm

          CV Hmmmm? How would the USA have gone then if they had not changed I wonder?

          At least an egregious leader can be chucked in favour of one with more grasp, of the work and responsibility to all, than the money and esteem. Then if someone is very good it becomes hard to replace the favourite even when he dances naked in the street, and starts taking huge bribes. The 20 years thing would definitely be needed then.

        • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.2.1.2
          7 February 2013 at 1:04 pm

          CV
          Have just had my reply wiped by the remote server. I mentioned daft pollies dancing na..k..d in the streets. I wonder if we are having good old USA morality dished out by machine?

          PS But lo, it has arisen from the dead. wtf

          • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.2.1
            7 February 2013 at 3:17 pm

            AFAIK the Republicans instituted the term limit rule so that the USA could never see another FDR again.

            • Pete 8.2.1.2.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 7:25 pm

              It took a constitutional amendment. You don’t get one of those passed in the US without extremely broad support.

        • McFlock 8.2.1.3
          8 February 2013 at 1:16 am

          Then of course there is the small print. The term limits in Russia, for example, were useless at getting rid of Putin. We’re already heading presidential-style as an MSM-friendly way of stabilising power to two main parties (another reason I’m happy for Labour to be in the thirties rather than well into the forties).

          And technically the governments in NZ area different governments after each election – new parliament, new coalition.

          Personally I favour things like campaign finance controls and advertising restrictions rather than term limits. Term limits are too fixated on a possible symptom (demagogue) rather than the problem (subversion of democracy).

  9. The Al1en 9
    7 February 2013 at 9:29 am

    I wrote and posted this last night, and I’ll choose to believe it’s not been seen yet because it’s lost at the bottom of yesterdays open mike 😀

    Apologies to all guitarists, except one (joke), as I’m using software.
    Actually, in the spirit of glasnost and perestroika, if DS wants to hit me up with some core Labour policy, he can strap on his axe and rock it with me on Campbell live and we’ll all live happy ever after.

    https://soundcloud.com/theal1en/getting-it-done

    You say it’s all right, sometime, we’ll get it done.
    Well sometimes you just suck. I’ve got the fight to say.
    You should never grab at something you couldn’t take.
    You say you’re all right, sometime, you’ll get it done.
    And sometimes you just say I’ve got to learn to wait.
    Well you should never hit on someone you couldn’t break.

    What you gonna wash away? How you gonna wash me away?

    For no better reason than I’ve got no reason to fake.
    If I got a reason I got the will and the way.
    No help coming, no one running away.
    Firing treason, here with the freaks and the snakes.
    What you gonna wash away? How you gonna wash me way?

    You say he’s all right, sometime, he’ll get it done.
    Well sometime is just words far too easy to say.
    You should never try on something if you can’t fake.
    You say it’s all right, sometime, you’ll get it done.
    And sometimes you just say I’ve got to learn to heal.
    Well you should never count on something that you can’t steal from under my nose.

    What you gonna wash away? How you gonna wash me way?

    For no better reason than I’ve got no reason to fade.
    I got the meaning, I got the will and the way.
    No hope running, no joke coming to play.
    Firing reason, here with the freaks and the snakes.
    What you gonna wash away? How you gonna wash me way?

    For no better reason than I’ve got no reason to fake.
    I got a reason I got the will and the way.
    No helps coming, no one’s running away.
    Firing treason, here with the freaks and the snakes.
    What you gonna wash away? How you gonna wash me way?

    • cardassian 9.1
      7 February 2013 at 8:26 pm

      What software are you using?

      • The Al1en 9.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 8:42 pm

        PreSonus Studio one v2 as my sequencer/recorder, and on this track, just two instances of Musiclab real LPC and a vocoder to pitch and colour my awful vocals.

        Apart from that, I use an ancient but sadly discontinued vsti synth plugin and the brilliant U-he Diva. And that’s it.

        The way I figure it, being minimally talented, if the songs ever get picked up they’ll all be re-done properly in a studio anyway, no matter what I do with them at home, so I rather focus on writing and saving the world and just hope the right person gets to hear the songs through the mess. 🙂

  10. Ed 10
    7 February 2013 at 9:32 am

    I don’t use Twitter, but I have started to get an email every so often saying ‘here’s what is happening on Twitter” I clicked on it today and was pleasantly surprised to be directed to:
    http://vital.org.nz/entry/2013/02/

    It fits in with comments others have made about National deliberately trying to remove all discussion on political topics – and Holmes was (perhaps but perhaps not) an unwitting supporter of the removal of debate from our media. I do think it is a bit hard on Shearer – including honours to make it partly a celebration of achievement does not mean taking away discussion on issues where we do not agree.

    Teh November post to that blog is also interesting. I have come to think that some posters to The Standard are deliberately trying to undermine informed discussion, and to represent their views as those of the majority or the Green Party , or of the Labour Party – collectively, I think both the Green and Labour Parties are much more tolerant, and also much kinder to each other than many posters would like to try to convince us.

    I would be interested in how many different posters there are to The Standard. It is being followed more by media (or at least acknowledged more) – I suspect it has a wider number of posters than some otehr well known blogs. Could a count be made of the number of different posters for say each of the last few months?

    • Colonial Weka 10.1
      7 February 2013 at 10:42 am

      Thanks Ed, that’s a good piece of writing by Judd. The problem I have with Shearer and Waitangi is that he thinks it’s cause for celebration. The whole ‘happy Waitangi Day’ thing grates, for precisely the reasons that Judd goes into. It reminds me of when Otago had its 150 anniversary as a province. The council and organisers of events called it a celebration, and then local iwi spoke up and said hang on, for some of the people that live in Otago, the arrival of settlers and setting up of the province was extremely painful and not something to celebrate (call it a commemoration instead). Until we accept that Maori have distinct and entirely valid experiences of NZ that are quite different than most Pakeha, we are at an impasse. Trying to make Waitangi Day a ‘happy’ day just doesn’t work.

      “I have come to think that some posters to The Standard are deliberately trying to undermine informed discussion,”

      Can you give an example or two?

      • Ed 10.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 12:47 pm

        I saw the point of Judds article as saying that it is possible for a discussion to allow for a range of different viewpoints. I read him as effectively saying that calling for some celebration on a public holiday does not mean that we cannot at the same time address other issues. That’s like saying that until we return to budget surpluses we cannot afford to increase the minimum wage . . .

        A public holiday is usually an indication that the country felt, at least at one time, that we could celebrate some achievement, and in relation to the Treaty, I believe there are things to celebrate. If that can also include celebrating achievements of New Zealanders, let that not distract from understanding that we still have some matters to resolve; we can celebrate a Treaty that is still capable of assisting shape our actions . . .

        I don’t wish to personalise my comment about the motives of some posters to The Standard, but a number of times a post about a problem caused by the current government seem to turn very quickly into an attack on Shearer, or to seek to cast doubt on whether Labour and Green can work together – they appear to me to be attempts to divert discussion from the effects of government action or inaction, towards perceived deficiencies in current opposition parties. Many seem amazed, disappointed, even furious that there clear determinations of the will of the people are not shared by the leadership of the Labour and Green parties – and imply that it would be better for those parties to remain in opposition than to accept ‘imperfect’ policies from their definition of true left ideals.

        Judd said ( http://vital.org.nz/entry/2012/11/ )
        “I’m discouraged by the conviction with which journalists report their opinions as fact, and I’m equally discouraged by the way political bloggers and commentators have done the same, building on the journalists’ reports. The Cunliffe vs Shearer story and the 40% vs simple majority story are intertwined, but they are not the same, yet we can’t be sure where and how they overlap. I know I’m going to give a lot more credit to analysis that acknowledges these uncertainties instead of glossing over them for the sake of a clear story.”

        I am similarly discouraged by reporting of opinions as fact in many comments to The Standard – your mileage may wary.

  11. higherstandard 11
    7 February 2013 at 9:48 am

    And the debacle continues.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8271027/Novopay-round-labelled-a-shocker

    Will anyone do a mea culpa or be held to account ?

    • bad12 11.1
      7 February 2013 at 10:04 am

      Of course no one will be held to account, the Slippery lead National government seem delighted that the teaching profession will be traumatized by having their pay f**ked up for at least the next 2 years,

      From what i heard this morning the ‘attack’ upon schools continue’s unabated with schools having their operating budgets destroyed by having to pay some teachers monies owed to them for wages out of the operating budget,

      Any of these schools having had to destroy their budgets because of No-No Pay that have a smaller role this year are now being told to immediately refund part of that operating budget and it appears that the Education Department and the Minister couldn’t really give a toss whether the schools have had their operating budgets wrecked or not,

      Hekia’s revenge perhaps…

      • higherstandard 11.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 10:11 am

        Yes, yes it’s all a plan by the reverse vampires to take over the world……. first the school payrolls, next who knows ?

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 10:15 am

          Its pretty serious stuff HS. A lot of kids educations and a lot of families lives are being disrupted by this debacle.

        • vto 11.1.1.2
          7 February 2013 at 10:16 am

          It is entirely amusing that the new zealand government is incapable of ensuring teachers are paid.

          The most basic of tasks and it is entirely incapable.

          what a joke.

          • leftriteleft 11.1.1.2.1
            7 February 2013 at 3:08 pm

            Do you think that the Nats “might” do something about if they weren’t getting payed and the Opposition Parties were?
            Sorry, that was a dream.

        • bad12 11.1.1.3
          7 February 2013 at 11:00 am

          Yeah typical Tory attitude, how would you like it if you were told that for the next 2 years it will be a lottery if you are paid or not,

          Schools are legally obliged to pay their employees and the only means of doing this under the present system is to pay out of the operating account when No-No Pay makes yet another ‘mistake’,

          To then send out letters to schools demanding monies back from that operating budget for pupils that have left the school is to simply put even more pressure on those attempting to run those schools within such budgets,

          The fact that you couldn’t really care is obvious…

          • higherstandard 11.1.1.3.1
            7 February 2013 at 2:28 pm

            I do care, I just get bored with your comments regarding Novopay being a dastardly plot by the current government.

            • Kevin Welsh 11.1.1.3.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 3:11 pm

              I don’t think it is a dastardly plot HS, but on the other had I think that privately they are more than slightly amused by the situation.

            • bad12 11.1.1.3.1.2
              7 February 2013 at 7:50 pm

              If i bore you there’s an easy solution, when you come across the bad12’s as you scroll down the page keep on scrolling,

              I spose you consider Hekia’s smiling face and karma comment on the fact that those at the Ministry of Education also had their pay round made a mess of the other week as a bit of light entertainment…

  12. mickysavage 12
    7 February 2013 at 10:59 am

    The latest household labourforce survey figures are out and no doubt the Government will jump on the reduction in the unemployment rate from 7.3% to 6.9% as something to celebrate.

    However the figures are all screwy:

    The number of people unemployed decreased by 10,000 people BUT the employment rate fell 0.8 percentage points, to 62.6 percent AND the number of people employed decreased by 23,000 (down 1.0 percent) AND the labour force participation rate fell 1.2 percentage points, to 67.2 percent AND the number of people in the labour force decreased by 33,000.

    Obviously more people are dropping out or giving up but I cannot imagine that it is because of the ageing population.

    The report is at http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_HOTPDec12qtr.aspx

    • bad12 12.1
      7 February 2013 at 11:06 am

      LOLZ, it will be interesting to try and hunt out exactly who and where those who have left the workforce are,

      Will definitely get back to this later…

    • Colonial Viper 12.2
      7 February 2013 at 11:50 am

      Reminds me of the US where every new monthly jobs figure looks good, makes good press, but the next month is quietly and substantially revised for the worse. Cynicism.

    • Saarbo 12.3
      7 February 2013 at 12:25 pm

      Interesting!

    • bad12 12.4
      7 February 2013 at 8:31 pm

      The best that can be said about those figures is that Paula’s travel agency is working well and another positive contribution to the Australian economy has shown to have been made by NZ workers,

      Wonder when the next set of unemployment benefit numbers are due out…

  13. red rattler 13
    7 February 2013 at 11:27 am

    Here’s some econophysics on laws of motion of capitalism.

    Note falling profits in China and financial tsunami spreading across Pacific.

    http://spiritofcontradiction.eu/rowan-duffy/2013/02/06/interview-paul-cockshott-on-econophysics-and-socialism#more-1180

    • Murray Olsen 13.1
      7 February 2013 at 4:21 pm

      Econophysics might start being worth looking at if socialists start doing it. A lot of what I’ve seen so far treats the maths in a very naive way, and is basically designed to guide speculators. This work looks much more interesting.

  14. Steve Withers 14
    7 February 2013 at 11:53 am

    Stuff Poll: Four year Parliamentary term? Y/N

    The Yes is winning 3 to 1 at the moment out of 1000 votes…..so the right wingnut network is engaged.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8270952/Key-wants-four-year-term-for-Parliament

    • McFlock 14.1
      7 February 2013 at 12:32 pm

      “One hundred and 73 years after the “…
      Editors at my workplace would go spare at that mashing of formats.

      Stuff, keeping New Zealand’s sub-editing capabilities on par with it’s journalistic expertise since nineteen 9(…

    • Rosie 14.2
      7 February 2013 at 1:14 pm

      Lol,the RWNJ network is engaged EVERYDAY on the stuff.co.nz comment forums and polls, – them and the just plain vacuous.

  15. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 15
    7 February 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Turns out the Super Fund is a crock:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8270688/NZ-Super-Fund-returns-fail-to-justify-debt-cost

    • McFlock 15.1
      7 February 2013 at 12:40 pm

      No,
      The $20bil superfund is now only just breaking even with the massive debt that National has gifted us and our children.

      The solution is apparently to get rid of the asset and continue business as usual. The thought of addressing the systemic causes of our government debt is not apparently on the table. Mostly because that would involve taxing the job creators destroyers.

    • JK 15.2
      7 February 2013 at 4:07 pm

      To Gormless. the NZ Super fund is not a crock. See its record from its December 2012 statement and
      remember that any investment for the long term – which is what the NZ Super Fund is – has its ups and downs . On the whole the NZ Super Fund performs well – even during difficult economic downturns.

      Also remember – the Labour Govt’s first super scheme was wiped by Muldoon, and it would have saved the country billions if it had been left in place. The comments by the researcher Michael Littlewood look to me like they’re just another attempt by Nats to do the same sort of thing ie destroy NZ’s super scheme!

      “Fund Performance to 31 December 2012
      Posted On: Tuesday, 22 January 2013

      The New Zealand Superannuation Fund returned 19.17% for the 12 months ended 31 December 2012.

      The Fund finished the year at a record high for the month-end of $20.92 billion, up from $17.73 billion at the end of 2011.

      Since inception in September 2003 the Fund has returned 7.92%,exceeding the 90-day Treasury Bill rate by 2.84%. The Fund’s long-term performance expectation is that it will beat the Treasury Bill rate by at least 2.5%.”

  16. Penny Bright 16
    7 February 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Published in full – FYI.

    7 February 2013

    Open Letter to the Mayor and Councillors who are members of the CEO Review Sub-Committee of Auckland Council:

    Len Brown (Chairperson)
    Christine Fletcher (Deputy Chairperson)
    Ann Hartley
    Penny Hulse
    Richard Northey
    Penny Webster

    RE: THE MEETING OF THE AUCKLAND COUNCIL CEO REVIEW SUB-COMMITTEE MEETING TODAY – THURSDAY 7 FEBRUARY 2013: (2pm)

    Dear Mayor and Councillors,

    Please confirm that the following Agenda Items C1 and C2 items pertaining to the performance of the CEO have been removed from ‘Confidential’ as they are a matter of considerable public interest, and there is a difference between protecting the ‘privacy’ of individuals and ensuring public transparency and accountability for those in public office, particularly the ‘Principal Administrative Officer’ of Auckland Council – the CEO.

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/AboutCouncil/meetings_agendas/committees/Pages/ceoreviewsub-committee.aspx

    C1 Report on the Chief Executive’s Performance Against the 2012/2013 Objectives

    Reason for passing this resolution in relation to each matter
    Particular interest(s) protected (where applicable)
    Ground(s) under section 48(1) for the passing of this resolution
    The public conduct of the part of the meeting would be likely to result in the disclosure of information for
    which good reason for withholding exists under section 7. s7(2)(a) –
    The withholding of the information is necessary to protect the privacy of natural persons, including that of a deceased person.
    In particular, to enable the Chief Executive Review Subcommittee to examine and discuss in detail, progress against agreed objectives to the Council’s executive team, including free and full discussion on sensitive issues including privacy and contract issues..
    s48(1)(a)
    The public conduct of the part of the meeting would be likely to result in the disclosure of information for
    which good reason for withholding exists under section 7.

    C2 CEO Recruitment Process

    Reason for passing this resolution in relation to each matter
    Particular interest(s) protected (where applicable)
    Ground(s) under section 48(1) for the passing of this resolution
    The public conduct of the part of the meeting would be likely to result in the disclosure of information for
    which good reason for withholding exists under section 7. s7(2)(h) – The withholding of the
    information is necessary to enable the local authority to carry out, without prejudice or disadvantage,
    commercial activities.
    In particular to enable the Chief Executive Review Subcommittee to discuss the detail of the Chief
    Executive recruitment before information is released to the market and potential candidates.. s48(1)(a)
    The public conduct of the part of the meeting would be likely to result in the disclosure of information for
    which good reason for withholding exists under section 7.

    “TERMS OF REFERENCE

    The Chief Executive Review Committee is established to review the Chief Executive’s performance during the 2010/2012 term of the Council and to negotiate terms and conditions of the CE’s employment including any performance agreement measures and annual remuneration.

    Relevant legislation includes but is not limited to:

    The Local Government Act 2002; and
    The Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2002. ”

    Please be reminded of your following statutory duties as enshrined in the Local Government Act 2002:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/whole.html#DLM171803
    10Purpose of local government

    (1)The purpose of local government is—

    (a)to enable democratic local decision-making and action by, and on behalf of, communities; and

    (b)to meet the current and future needs of communities for good-quality local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions in a way that is most cost-effective for households and businesses.

    (2)In this Act, good-quality, in relation to local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions, means infrastructure, services, and performance that are-

    (a)efficient; and
    (b)effective; and
    (c)appropriate to present and anticipated future circumstances.

    Section 10(1)(b): replaced, on 5 December 2012, by section 7(1) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 93).
    Section 10(2): inserted, on 5 December 2012, by section 7(2) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 93).

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    14Principles relating to local authorities

    (1)In performing its role, a local authority must act in accordance with the following principles:

    (a)a local authority should—

    (i)conduct its business in an open, transparent, and democratically accountable manner; and

    (ii)give effect to its identified priorities and desired outcomes in an efficient and effective manner:

    (b)a local authority should make itself aware of, and should have regard to, the views of all of its communities; and

    (c)when making a decision, a local authority should take account of—

    (i)the diversity of the community, and the community’s interests, within its district or region; and
    (ii)the interests of future as well as current communities; and
    (iii)the likely impact of any decision on the interests referred to in subparagraphs (i) and (ii):

    (d)a local authority should provide opportunities for Maori to contribute to its decision-making processes:

    (e)a local authority should collaborate and co-operate with other local authorities and bodies as it considers appropriate to promote or achieve its priorities and desired outcomes, and make efficient use of resources; and

    (f)a local authority should undertake any commercial transactions in accordance with sound business practices; and

    (fa)a local authority should periodically—

    (i)assess the expected returns to the authority from investing in, or undertaking, a commercial activity; and
    (ii)satisfy itself that the expected returns are likely to outweigh the risks inherent in the investment or activity; and

    (g)a local authority should ensure prudent stewardship and the efficient and effective use of its resources in the interests of its district or region; and

    (h)in taking a sustainable development approach, a local authority should take into account—

    (i)the social, economic, and cultural interests of people and communities; and
    (ii)the need to maintain and enhance the quality of the environment; and
    (iii)the reasonably foreseeable needs of future generations.

    (2)If any of these principles conflict in any particular case, the local authority should resolve the conflict in accordance with the principle in subsection (1)(a)(i).
    Section 14(1)(c)(iii): replaced, on 5 December 2012, by section 8(1) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 93).
    Section 14(1)(fa): inserted, on 27 November 2010, by section 6 of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2010 (2010 No 124).
    Section 14(1)(h)(i): amended, on 5 December 2012, by section 8(2) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 93).
    Section 14(2): amended, on 5 December 2012, by section 8(3) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 93).

    (My underlining).
    __________________________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that in order to defend the above-mentioned principles of ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ local government – I for one – give notice that I will refuse to be excluded from the meeting, and shall refuse to leave the room, if Items C1 and C2 are kept in ‘CONFIDENTIAL’.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    Auckland Mayoral Candidate 2013

  17. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17
    7 February 2013 at 2:55 pm

    I just went to the supermarket.

    The woman in front of me in the express queue had 21 items.

    Was it weak of me to not say anything?

    • felixviper 17.1
      7 February 2013 at 2:57 pm

      12 item queue or 20 item queue?

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 2:58 pm

        12 item queue.

        • felixviper 17.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 3:05 pm

          Hmmm, that’s pushing it alright.

          Was it busy? Like, was it just her and you in the queue or were there already other people to wait for before her?

          And was it 21 quick items? Or 21 different pieces of fruit to weigh and bags of pick n mix with missing numbers to look up?

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2013 at 3:11 pm

            Good questions.

            It was Pak N Save, so, in fairness, three of those 21 items were plastic bags. But they should count, shouldn’t they?

            When she was being served there were two people behind me, so three in all. No pick n mix and no fruit and vege. But still…

            I think she was clearly over the line. My question though is, do I owe future shoppers a duty to make it clear to her it’s not on? Should I leave that to Pak N Save? Or, if it’s not troubling me, should I just leave it?

            Tricky.

            • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 3:41 pm

              I’d head to the check out supervisor or service desk to complain. If they put a sign up and it is their policy, then their staff need to be enforcing it in a fair and reasonable manner.

              • VivaciousViper …
                7 February 2013 at 4:18 pm

                Yes CV, having been in the industry and a supervisor,the best anyone can do
                is to alert the supervisor and it is their job to ‘have a chat’ later with the operator,
                to get her/him to enforce the policy.
                Checkout operators should know the policy and adhere to it though, they only
                need to politely say ‘Sorry, this is an express lane, you have too many items’
                If WW3 breaks out,best just to get them done and outta there.

                • Anne …
                  7 February 2013 at 6:10 pm

                  If WW3 breaks out, best just to get them done and outta there.

                  That’s what the cheats rely on VV. Best to get the supervisor to talk to them.

                  • Anne …
                    7 February 2013 at 6:24 pm

                    To be fair to the check-out operators it must be hard to cause a scene.

                    A couple of months ago I was behind a middle aged woman at the express check-out. She had at least 20 items – possibly more. She was well dressed and not a strand of hair out of place. She reeked financial comfort and confidence. The body language said don’t mess with me girl or I’ll cause trouble for you. The girl didn’t. I saw the woman out in the car-park a few minutes later and I wanted to have a little ‘tete a tete’ (can’t do the French stroke thing) with her, but I didn’t. Was angry with myself for being a coward. I despise those types.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 February 2013 at 6:27 pm

                      Future reference – the best way to start a discussion like that is rudely and sharply 😉

                      If they apologise or look sheepish you can cool down and say that you over-reacted and everybody does it

                      If they go bloody minded you already got a full head of steam to work with 🙂

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    7 February 2013 at 6:25 pm

                    My fav this month is having a couple in their 30’s push their way through security screening airport queues because they were carrying a baby.

                    I let them past (because everyone else was and the bloody peer pressure thing) but regretted it because I looked at their faces and they clearly knew they were taking the piss.

                    btw baby was out to it on her shoulder without a care in the world, ignorant that mum and dad were using her for personal advantage.

            • felixviper 17.1.1.1.1.2
              7 February 2013 at 3:44 pm

              It’s an ethical minefield alright.

              All things considered I’d have to agree, she was clearly taking the piss. But what to do? Most of us don’t like to make a fuss, and we’d hope the checkout operator would enforce the limit.

              But by the time they don’t enforce it, it’s too late to do much about it. And then is making a fuss going to hold up the queue even more than letting it slide? And I’d feel a bit guilty causing strife for the checkout operator, it’s a fairly thankless job already without me putting my oar in.

              I reckon programming the registers in those aisles so they can only physically scan x amount of items before totaling up might be a way to fix it. Kind of lets everyone off the hook without confrontation.

              Not sure if I’d include plastic bags in the count or not. I suppose they do take time to process and that’s the whole point, so yeah you’re probably right on second thought.

        • leftriteleft 17.1.1.2
          7 February 2013 at 3:20 pm

          Seems to me she may have suffered from Dyslexia.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.1.1.2.1
            7 February 2013 at 3:32 pm

            Dyscalculia.

            • leftriteleft 17.1.1.2.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 4:32 pm

              Oh! Sorry I’m not that good at English.
              But isn’t that the same thing that Slippery JK suffers from.

        • The Al1en 17.1.1.3
          7 February 2013 at 3:50 pm

          Should have done what I did last xmas eve and asked the shoppers in front if they’d been good for santa, and when they said yes, wished them luck in receiving big boxes of less ignorance.
          The checkout girl laughed.

          • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.3.1
            7 February 2013 at 3:52 pm

            All class.

            • The Al1en 17.1.1.3.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 3:54 pm

              When Tony Blair went on about a classless society, I always thought he meant me.

            • Rob 17.1.1.3.1.2
              7 February 2013 at 3:59 pm

              Id suggest that you just get over it and temper you internal scorning. Queing is a very serious issue to the English, you know the old story .

              Put three Welsh together and you a choir
              Put three Irish together and you have a party
              Put three scots together and you have a fight
              Put three English together and you have a que.

              • The Al1en …
                7 February 2013 at 4:05 pm

                “Id suggest that you just get over it and temper you internal scorning.”

                It’s us v the ignorant. Zero tolerance to nuggets.

                “Put three English together and you have a que.”

                But only on the costa del sol.

    • cardassian 17.2
      7 February 2013 at 8:40 pm

      After living in England I’d say something. Got used to that English way of having full blown screaming matches with strangers in public places.

    • john72 17.3
      9 February 2013 at 1:06 pm

      I trust that your comment is not serious. It would be WISE of you not to say anything.
      Proverbs 18,7 ” A fools mouth is his destruction and his lips are the snare of his soul.”

      • fatty 17.3.1
        9 February 2013 at 1:19 pm

        Not really. Jesus was an advocate who was vocal on a number of issues. Jesus spent a large part of his life talking, he often voiced his concern. Jesus was wise because he did say things.
        That proverb you have given us does not apply to every situation.

      • The Al1en 17.3.2
        9 February 2013 at 1:36 pm

        Don’t know if that reply is to me, but if so, it’s your religion and your soul to save.
        Nothing to do with me, John, or wise for that matter.

  18. Anakereiti 18
    7 February 2013 at 4:12 pm

    i never quite got the difference between left and right – but just had a look at KiwiBlog regarding an a blog on the PM and Waitangi day.
    What a horrible site. It looked like the KKK logged in there>
    And then I look at this site, and the difference is day and night 🙂
    Thanks people, I feel better now.

    • Murray Olsen 18.1
      7 February 2013 at 4:24 pm

      Best not to go near Whale Oil then. That sites looks as if the KKK were chased away for being reasonable and inclusive.

    • bad12 18.2
      7 February 2013 at 7:20 pm

      Kiaora Ana, yeah we sweat laugh and scream here, but, buckle yourself in and join the fray, where you visited is known here as the Sewer it’s mostly inhabited by a primitive form of amoeba…

      • leftriteleft 18.2.1
        7 February 2013 at 7:46 pm

        There’s not that many right supporters.
        Just a few – and they stand out like a – John Key moment.

  19. Anakereiti 19
    7 February 2013 at 4:36 pm

    OK so much for my theory that we live in a wonderful society. And I thought the Ansell site was disgusting

  20. Pascal's bookie 20
    7 February 2013 at 4:45 pm

    “He is described as a veteran newspaper and radio journalist and South Island editor of Challenge Weekly, a non-denominational and independent Christian newspaper.”

    Surprise!

    http://t.co/ZXNRF0Rb

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 20.1
      7 February 2013 at 4:56 pm

      In my experience, anyone who wears tone-on-tone is a paedophile.

      • Pascal's bookie 20.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 6:06 pm

        Via Paul Litterick: at fundypost:

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0311/S00171.htm

        Permitting a girl as young as 11 to have an abortion without her parents’ knowledge is a form of child abuse, Maxim Institute told a select committee hearing today.

        The provision is contained in Section 37 of the Care of Children Bill.

        Maxim researcher John McNeil told the hearing into the Bill that there is growing evidence worldwide that abortion has significant health risks, at least as great as those which are now being recognised in the case of hormone replacement therapy (HRT).

        “We are asking a child to make a decision about a medical procedure which can have profoundly adverse effects, when she is not of sufficient maturity to do so, even if she is advised of the possible consequences.”

        The situation is made even worse by the Privacy Act. Mr McNeil said Maxim was aware of a case where a young high school girl told the school counsellor of her pregnancy. The counsellor whipped her off for an abortion, and then allowed the girl to attend a gymnasium session in PE the same afternoon.

        “The PE teacher was furious when she finally found out, but the counsellor said the girl’s right to privacy came first,” Mr McNeil said. “This is madness, when the girl could have suffered serious harm.

        “If she had, the parents would have probably been kept in the dark, while still being held responsible for her care.

        “Not only that, but men who are getting under-age girls pregnant are often getting off scot-free, because of the girl’s ‘right’ to privacy.”

        http://fundypost.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/whatever-happened-to.html?spref=tw

  21. bad12 21
    7 February 2013 at 6:37 pm

    A major construction company goes to the wall threatening the livelihoods of 1000,s of workers and subcontractors,

    Quick start a distraction, hence Slippery the Prime Minister blathering on about a 4 year electoral cycle,

    See nothing hear nothing do nothing that’s the Slippery lead National Government, 2014 cannot come quick enough to get rid of this Shyster and the incompetents that surround Him…

  23. Anne 23
    7 February 2013 at 7:18 pm

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/

    Can anyone put together a reciprocal video of Key’s shocking diction, mispronunciations, the idiot comments and stupid/nasty actions – the three way handshake and the cut-throat gesture towards Phil Goff spring to mind.

    Suggested musical back-ground – Handel-Adagio Movement 4.

  24. blue leopard 24
    7 February 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Rather astounded at just having seen an item on Positive Money on “Seven Sharp”. Just caught the end of it; I guess it will be viewable at 8pm on TV1 plus One. In case anyone is interested. They were explaining how money came out of nowhere. I thought that was sacrilege for mainstream. Seems I was wrong.

    • Colonial Viper 24.1
      7 February 2013 at 7:32 pm

      Interesting.

      • blue leopard 24.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 7:37 pm

        Would be interested to hear your opinion if you can catch it. I think it must have been the first item. One of the guys on it said something odd in the summary of the story, but only caught last part of it, so will watch it again myself!

        • bad12 24.1.1.1
          7 February 2013 at 7:57 pm

          Given that the Government debt left for the next Government to come to terms with by the Slippery lead National Government will be well over 60 billion dollars by the time they are given the kick in 2014 maybe TV1 is preparing those that are mostly asleep in charge of their own minds for the inevitable…

          • bad12 24.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2013 at 8:24 pm

            LOLZ, TV1 after 7 telling the truth about where money comes from has me thinking that that particular program will not be with us for very much longer,

            Their Lordships of the banking world aint going to like having their little scam broadcast for all to see across the nation at a time when most of them are at least half awake,

            They are of course correct, as many of us here at the Standard have been banging on about endlessly for months any Government is quite capable of creating money just as the banks do, type a set of numbers into the computer and hey presto you have MONEY,

            After7 points out that any Government contribution to the Christchurch rebuild could,(and i say should) have been via money it had printed for it’s own use,

            State Housing could be built by the 1000 by the 10,000 by the 100,000 by Government simply printing the monies needed to build such,

            There’s a simple codicil to this and that is any monies spent into the economy by printing extra amounts of the stuff need be spent into that economy so as to give full regard to the Reserve Bank’s inflation targets band,

            Of course i don’t expect the primitive band of chimps in control of the place at the moment to do any such thing even tho they were advised just after the 2008 election by no less than the IMF to do just that…

            • blue leopard 24.1.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2013 at 9:00 pm

              “..has me thinking that that particular program will not be with us for very much longer, ~bad12

              Lol, had similar thoughts myself, or rather, that “the magazine style news show” appears to have become a case of the worm that turned….not what I would have expected anyway!

              I was a bit stunned they made no mention of the bank having to have a certain amount of assets in order to loan that money. That is the point usually raised in discussions on whether a bank prints money out of thin air or not.
              And the comment Greg Boyd made re confidence; banks’ll never collapse because we kiwis always want houses…that seemed odd. Is it my imagination or is that what did occur and continues to occur? i.e. Global Financial Crisis….& the only reason it hasn’t is ..well….because….someone, somewhere is “printing” lotsa money aswel as perhaps false confidence in US dollars due to the military&oil industry demanding these products get paid in US dollars?

              • bad12 …
                7 February 2013 at 9:21 pm

                Last count if my memory serves me correctly is that 184 billion dollars of private bank loans are on the books of New Zealand banks,

                There is an expectation that Banks have a certain amount of cash on hand but that cash’s relationship to the amount of monies on loan to private interests isn’t as far as i can ascertain any relevant % of such monies and seems more an at the Government’s whim type regulation, there was talk a while ago of both increasing this and increasing the amount of cash Joe Lunchbox needed to put up as a deposit so as to get His/Her hands on the en-pixie-lated prize of the big loan,

                the whole system of course is in fact one of insanity simply allowing the Banking System to f**k off with a large part of the production of New Zealand that’s been paid out as wages of the serfs enamored of the ownership model and willing to do anything, including rob their own mother’s, to get on the ladder…

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 February 2013 at 9:38 pm

                  There is an expectation that Banks have a certain amount of cash on hand but that cash’s relationship to the amount of monies on loan to private interests isn’t as far as i can ascertain any relevant % of such monies

                  Core funding ratio set by the reserve bank

                  http://www.economist.com/node/14363244

                  The only actual “cash on hand” a bank might hold is in the form of “loan loss reserves” to cover bad loans. I don’t think this is a formal requirement in NZ anyway.

                  Usually banks are cheapskates and assume that they can cover all of their reserve requirements with short term funding from the money markets. (In NZ because of the CFR they can’t do that as much).

                  Which is why during the GFC, when banks didn’t trust each another enough to loan each other even overnight monies, the whole system of debts covering debts covering debts ground to a halt.

                  Remember the cardinal rule which few people understand in banking – banks will lend out money first, then look for any reserves that they need to cover those loans, later.

                  • vto …
                    7 February 2013 at 9:43 pm

                    And to think that banks have the nerve to castigate others about being highly leveraged – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

                • vto …
                  7 February 2013 at 9:41 pm

                  Yes to all of the above.

                  The wider public is cottoning onto the worlds largest ever ponzi scheme scam which is banking.

                  It’s slow though. It is surprising how many don’t know about this though – even multi-multi-millionaires I have regaled with this scam don’t know about it.

                  Time is up mr banker. And you know it. I am sure you will be making preparations right now, whilst at the same time telling your customers that everything is fine.

                  Time is up Mr Banker .

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    7 February 2013 at 9:44 pm

                    Speaking of Mr Banker…Mr Simon Power just got a nice promotion at Westpac

                    http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/63020/westpac-nz-says-its-mortgage-growth-remains-below-overall-market-levels-continuing-cross

                    With Power getting his advanced bankster experience in now, he’ll be a shoe in for PM down the track.

                  • blue leopard …
                    7 February 2013 at 10:58 pm

                    @vto,

                    ” It is surprising how many don’t know about this though”~vto

                    Yes, this is why I am rather amazed and impressed that “Seven Sharp” had that little item on. It was easy to understand and actually appeared to be informative without the need to have the little scathing comment at the end of it, which I’ve noticed often occurs when out of the ordinary or “less than mediocre information” is being imparted.

                    What was very interesting too, is that they had a Raf Manji on who was introduced as a “former London banker and former colleague of John Key”. Who was advocating that the Government “print” money for the Chch rebuild because then interest would not be required to be paid for the “loan”.

                    My opinion is that if the media imparted more information like this New Zealand would become a more informed people and circumstances would improve.

  25. Herodotus 25
    7 February 2013 at 8:35 pm

    Don’t know if it was because Waitangi Day fell on a Wednesday, but from observation it appears to me that this was the least observed holiday, so many people I have come across at work today worked yesterday. be it a few hours ( like me) or a full day, as if it was just a normal Wednesday. And these people have no connection with the MOE, schools or nopay

  26. outofbed 26
    7 February 2013 at 10:02 pm

    I don’t want to be critical but the Labour Party web site is so bad its an embarrassment

    • Colonial Viper 26.1
      7 February 2013 at 10:22 pm

      I can’t for the life of me figue out what Labour is pushing at the moment. Wait. I just counted 10 different David Shearer photos on their home page.

      • blue leopard 26.1.1
        7 February 2013 at 11:09 pm

        I just looked at the link Outofbed provided. Lolz I see what you mean CV, perhaps they could simply go for a tiled wallpaper of Mr Shearer in the background too? 😀

      • outofbed 26.1.2
        7 February 2013 at 11:29 pm

        i think three of them are the same (one just reversed)

        • blue leopard 26.1.2.1
          7 February 2013 at 11:47 pm

          yes, one would think they could take more photos, instead of reversing the same one 😐

          • Colonial Viper 26.1.2.1.1
            8 February 2013 at 12:00 am

            Reversing photos is a huge no-no in most professional PR circles as it completely distorts the face of your principal.

            • blue leopard 26.1.2.1.1.1
              8 February 2013 at 12:15 am

              I don’t know why they bother with their PR companies, um have they got one? …Well, if they have, which they don’t appear to, (or perhaps its one that specializes in promoting farm animals?) they should perhaps fire them and just read the Standard instead. Plenty of good advice here. heh.

              • chris73 …
                8 February 2013 at 4:33 am

                That’d be Claire Curran (snigger) I guess

              • Anne …
                8 February 2013 at 10:12 am

                I don’t know why they bother with their PR companies, um have they got one?

                I doubt it. Their Head Office in Wellington is run on a shoe string. Partly their own fault. If the parliamentary wing stopped playing silly buggers with the membership, we might resume out donations.

            • Johninsg 26.1.2.1.1.2
              8 February 2013 at 5:05 am

              ~ ~ ~ g r o a n ~ ~ ~

              the reverse is so obvious

              if the plan is to repeat the feat in the future, the shots next time should be with a round-neck plain t-shirt so that the reverse picture will not look so jarring

        • outofbed 26.1.2.2
          8 February 2013 at 7:36 am

          Ha Just noticed It says “Labour a new direction.”.. obviously talking about the pics