In amongst all the verbal diarrhoea of many commentators on TPPA yesterday there were a couple of little gems which should be highlighted.
The first is that, whether a Labour led government stays in TPPA or not, the concerns this country will have with the agreement will be concerns other countries will also have. We shall not be alone in objecting to some of the more corporate-inspired invidious provisions – so there is a real possibility for renegotiation. And, perhaps, if ISDS gets excluded from TTIP, of doing the same with TTPA.
The second point, contained in a link, is more ominous. The agreement signed in New Zealand on the 4th may not be exactly the agreement ratified by the US Congress and Senate. Pressure will be applied by the US, as by far the strongest economy (!) for the other countries to fall into line. This has already happened with Peru and the drug extension from 5 to 8 years.
We desperately need a change of government to one which will be prepared to defend the interests of all New Zealanders, not just the 1% elite.
Except they didn’t kowtow during the actual negotiations that went on for years. Why do you think they will now when they have less incentive to do so?
Maybe or maybe not. However it is irrelevant in the context of renegotiation that you postulate. It won’t just be NZ that needs to kowtow but also Japan, Malaysia, Canada, Mexico, Peru, Chile, Australia, Singapore, Brunei and Vietnam. You can’t change the agreement unless ALL parties agree. Why is this difficult for you to grasp?
It is very easy to hear the pro TPP arguments. Open any newspaper and listen to any news programme.
It’s harder to hear the anti TPP argument.
Did you hear Lori Wallach’s speech?
How is it harder Paul?
You had no difficulty finding the link to Lori’s speech did you?
You had no difficulty accessing the comprehensive Herald report of the meeting she spoke at in Auckland?
Did you have any difficulty following the protests on Thursday, or coming to The Standard this morning?
Can you show me how it is in any way ‘difficult’ to access anti-TPPA arguments?
Most New Zealanders switch onto TV1, TV3, and read the Herald.
You know that though and are being disingenuous.
Yes. JUST LIKE YOU DO PAUL. Does that mean YOU end up thinking in the way that TV1,TV3, and the Herald decide?
See this is the enormous flaw behind your obsession with the unfair Media control meme. It is the fallacy (or is it an arrogance), that YOU can exercise a critical faculty and determine the truth for yourself, but the majority of other people are incapable of doing so.
Lets call that the fallacy of mass stupidity.
Frankly it is conceited, condescending, and dis-empowering bullshit.
The reality is that just like YOU, ALL PEOPLE have a brain (whoa!), they have a worldview (Hey!), they have opinions, ethics, morals, beliefs, and convictions, and they have a critical faculty with which to assess the information they choose to receive.
And having done so – they know what they think. And what they think is just as fucking valid as what you or anyone else on this site with a delusion of superiority thinks.
It’s a great paradox with the far left. On the one hand you claim to be all about ‘The People’. But on the other hand you look down on them as being stupid schmucks….
Sheep, it’s easy to see that people can be duped: all you have to do is listen to the right wing parrot chorous, relentlessly repeating the same zombie lies.
“Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment. People choose to be poor. Everyone can be rich if they work hard.” Racism, sexism, bigotry, and most of Economics: they all come down to repetition of lies. Hence earlier references to Crosby Textor and propaganda that you were too suffused with bias to respond to.
If lying to people doesn’t work, why does the National Party do so much of it?
Name calling is not an argument.
It is, despite your rant, a fact that it is much easier to hear pro-TPP arguments than those against, despite the fact that most people are against the TPP.
Your fallacy is that when people are capable of critical thinking and sound judgement they put this into practice without exception – you are conflating possible with actual.
This is obviously not true and the best evidence for this is the fact that about 1,000,000 million people are eligible to vote but don’t actually vote.
There’s a big difference between fast and slow thinking (Kahneman) and our minds naturally prefer the fast one and this dominating way of thinking prompts instinctive emotional reactions such as yours, i.e. silly biased outbursts AKA name-calling.
What is fundamentally different between the ISDS process proposed under the TPPA and the ones set out in our free trade deals with South Korea and China?
The fundamental difference is that US corporations are included in the ISDS in the TPPA.
Overall, 101 governments from all over the world have been respondents in one or more known ISDS claims. The relative share of cases brought against developed countries continues to be on the rise. In 2014, 60 per cent of all cases were brought against developing and transition economies, while the remaining 40 per cent were brought against developed countries.
There were two types of governmental measures that were challenged the most by investors in 2014.
The first were measures that cancelled or allegedly violated contracts of concessions. Second were measures that revoked or denied licences or permits.
Other challenged measures include:
legislative reforms in the renewable energy sector,
alleged discrimination of foreign investors via-à-vis domestic ones, alleged direct expropriations of investments,
alleged failure on the part of the host country to enforce its own legislation,
alleged failure to protect investments, as well as measures related to taxation, regulation of exports and bankruptcy proceedings. Some of the new cases concern public policies, including water tariff regulation, environmental issues, anti-money laundering and taxation.
Concerns about IIAs and ISDS have prompted a debate about their challenges and opportunities in multiple forums. Today, there is an emerging consensus that the regime of IIAs and the related dispute settlement mechanism need to be reformed to make them work better for sustainable development. As mentioned during the IIA Conference that was held at UNCTAD’s 2014 World Investment Forum ( WIF), such reform would need to be undertaken in a comprehensive and gradual way, taking into account the interests of all stakeholders.
It is therefore time to take stock of all of available options and consider the implications of each and every one of them. This can help identify the best possible mix of approaches and alternatives so as to maximize the benefits and minimize the potential risks. The UNCTAD Expert Meeting on the Transformation of the IIA Regime offers an important opportunity in this regard.
…..
The regime of international investment agreements (IIAs) is at a critical juncture. Increasing public attention is given to IIAs that are being negotiated and concluded as well as to investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) cases that are being brought under IIAs.
Korea cannot shaft our traders and continue to trade with us – but we produce essentially different things – trade threatens neither. But the US is or wants to be a large agricultural exporter – and insists on destroying regulations against GE, Mad Cow Disease, and monopolistic corporate abuses.
The US patent ‘industry’ is also massively dysfunctional – but they will have access to stifle NZ innovation under the TPPA. If you’d done your homework, you’d know this – but you’re a lazy, credulous far-right shill, perfectly happy to see NZ lose money and jobs.
Aren’t we lucky that the Chinese have not been as litigious as US companies – then again – with our current govt bending over backwards to be kind they have not the need to be.
We could for instance mill logs before sending them overseas – you know its called “value added”. But that is against the FTA with China so 100’s of mill workers in NZ are now out of work while thousands in China become employed.
This of course is really looking after the interests of NZers. /sarc
Interesting to see you Tony V first on Open Mike on 5th and 7th. Getting onto the site while thinking clearly before the morass of the day? Is this the real you thinking?
This for real? We desperately need a change of government to one which will be prepared to defend the interests of all New Zealanders, not just the 1% elite.
And this in Open Mike on 5 February. A good point. This was that the USA joined the TPPA negotiations on or around 2008, at the time when Key had just become leader of the National Party/Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Are we then just part of a giant neoliberalist conspiracy funded by the corporates of the United States, and aimed at total domination of the world by the wealthy elite?
everytime I read your name it reminds me of the other guy – no one imo, other than for the reason I’ve just said, cares what your name is – we care about what you write and say
Why don’t you have a pseudonym then, special for your blogging that identifies just you, which everyone can recognise wherever you comment. Something that refers to your own personal attributes in a forthright manner, or a catchphrase, or your favourite sport, something that’s unmistakeably you and won’t get confused with the plonker who now will be remembered for a generation. What you think sounds interesting, it’s good to have people who have a point of view that they produce background to argue, and sources to illustrate.
Must say, after reading and enjoying your comments for a while now – the only downside is that you are restoring a good reputation to that name you unfortunately share with that plonker!
I’m always interested in reading what you write Tony, and have got used to seeing the name appear in the comments here on TS.
Ok Winston fan here is some Peters gold from his speech at our anti TPPA rally in Paihia last Friday. This is alot cleaner footage wise, but misses some shots at Grosser and Hosking, the full interview (thanks Clare) is further down the page in a reply to Paul on Groser. Let me know what ya think?;
Almost two decades of Socialism and a great proportion of the population is now in poverty and violent crime is rampant. But I suppose many here blame all this of the ‘Damn Yankees’.
Did you not read in that article where it specifically mentioned the fall in the price of oil. Venezuela squandered virtually ALL the windfall profits when the price was high and has nothing left. According to many here the increase in social spending previously should have set them in good stead. Instead they have a budget deficit of 20 % of GDP and massive poverty. Where are the long term benefits of the revolution?
“Plan Bolivar 2000 repaired thousands of schools, hospitals, clinics, homes, churches, and parks. Over two million people received medical treatment. Nearly a thousand inexpensive markets were opened, over two million children were vaccinated, and thousands of tons of trash were collected, just to name a few of the program’s results.’
‘Since oil is Venezuela’s principal source of income, its decline, combined with growing inequality in Venezuela, had a significant impact on the poverty rate.’ ‘
And how has that benefited the Venezuelan economy and ultimately society long term considering the health sector is collapsing as it can’t import the drugs it needs?
‘Since oil is Venezuela’s principal source of income
And that is the problem across the world. Everyone assumes that a nation needs an income when it really simply needs the government spending money into creation and getting the economy working.
A UBI and government ownership of necessary services such as food and education would prevent poverty and, in fact, develop the nation. No need for foreign income.
These children will be building the economy and communities they will be living in tomorrow. It will equip them for the more challenging times ahead, and ensure they have the basic skills to secure their own and their families’ futures.
Meanwhile international capital markets and financial weapons of mass destruction are used to fuck over yet another country determined to exercise a foreign policy and economic policy independent of western empire.
For God’s sake. Gosman.
Right-wing-governed UK (including so-called Labour Govts of the era) squandered all the wealth of its North Sea on cheap imports. (Profit-gouging is not a dirty word, remember?)
Norway did not. Norway showed the way.
Venezuela is a naïve young learner – not even an advanced industrialised economy, yet you love to harp on about that.
Tell us where Norway has gone wrong, Gosman. Norway appears to have created a better economy and society while nicely ignoring the neo-liberal bullshit that you espouse.
Stop gassing about Venezuela – tell us where Norway went wrong, and why Thatcher etc were so right, and how wonderful things are in the UK, where your favoured policies are showing their fruits.
Gosman asked how the policies benefited Venezuela.
Reply cited reduced infant mortality and better education as results.
Gosman dismisses these as not being of benefit to the economy.
Fixation on the economy is typical of the neolib: If you can’t count it or the result hasn’t a dollar symbol infront of it, then ignore it.
Not to mention that a healthy and well educated population is of immense benefit to any economy.
But it hasn’t been in Venezuela’s case. The economy is so bad that the gains in literacy and health are being eroded and even get worse than where they started from. What’s the point of educating a population for 10 or so years if you can’t afford to keep it up beyond that?
Indeed, according to Gosman, what’s the point of educating and feeding ordinary people when the jilted 0.01% elite are going to deliberately fuck everyone up?
Indeed, according to Gosman, what’s the point of educating and feeding ordinary people when the jilted 0.01% elite are just going to deliberately fuck everyone up until they get their own way again?
While I have no time for corruption (whether from governments of the left or right) I find it intriguing that some should think that the alleviation of poverty is “squandering” resources.
In which case why is Venezuelan poverty rates worse now than in 1998? What happened to all that money that was spent micky and why hasn’t the economy let alone society benefitted in the way you lefties think it should? I mean Venezuela has followed the sort of policies many of you advocate yet there has been no lasting good it seems.
‘Oil crash hurts Venezuela the most
Venezuela’s economy depends mostly on oil. That was great when a barrel of oil was worth $100 a barrel in 2013 and 2014. Now oil prices have fallen to as low as $28.36 — the lowest point in 12 years.’ http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/news/economy/venezuela-economy-meltdown/
‘Amid lower oil prices, Venezuela is struggling to maintain the social spending that characterized the Hugo Chávez era. Crude accounts for 96 per cent of export revenues: a halving in the oil price over the past 14 months means revenues have slumped by about $36bn compared with the average of the previous two years, when the government raked in almost $79bn’
Are all countries that rely on oil for much of their revenue suffering the sort of problems Venezuela is undergoing? The answer to that is quite obviously not. Additionally why didn’t Venezuela use the oil windfall when the price was high to build up reserves to help prepare for times when the price was low? Other countries do this.
Almost all are in fact – Kuwait and the other small oil states are politically tender as the population prepares to punish the political class for declining living standards. Saudi is an exception, it is continuing its development programs, which include free education and an enormous increase in university education for women. But even Saudi doesn’t have unlimited reserves – though it does have phosphate – and phosphate, unlike oil, cannot be partially replaced by substitutes like biofuel or electric vehicles.
These children will be building the economy and communities they will be living in tomorrow. It will equip them for the more challenging times ahead, and ensure they have the basic skills to secure their own and their families’ futures.
Just an idea, but with all that oil wealth, couldn’t they have increased literacy and created a sound and developing economy?
Most countries seem to believe the two go hand in hand. For the screamingly obvious reason that increased literacy is of limited value if there is insufficient infrastructure to allow the people to benefit from it.
They probably could have: plenty of other social democracies have succeeded. Mind you, perhaps they didn’t come under relentless attack from the largest kleptocracy in the world.
So while it’s easy for you to assert that social democracy doesn’t work because Venezuela, all you’re really saying is that you’re an authoritarian follower who’s taken sides.
Gosman and the sheeple who is lost have no idea what constitutes an economy other than to think it is somehow summed up in GDP, or toilet paper.
Ignorant and heartless twits who lost their humanity many moons ago.
Because we need to take steps to return it to at least as low as it was in 1984: the last two decades have been wasted. Time to drag neo-liberalism behind the barn. Say nigh-nighs.
The ‘yankee’ Government has a long history of overthrowing and destroying socialist Governments and have already supported one military coup in Venezuela ….. http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-on-democracy
Since then they have used the Nixon/Kissenger method of “make the economy scream” against the people of Venezuela ……
A very successful removal of a ‘socialist’ Government which the u.s.a Govt helped in ( by supplying military aid and lists of names to be executed ) was Indonesia …..
“In 1965 the Indonesian government was overthrown by the military. Anybody opposed to the military dictatorship could be accused of being a communist: union members, landless farmers, intellectuals and ethnic Chinese…..
In less than a year and with the direct aid of western governments over one million ‘communists’ were murdered.
The army used paramilitaries and gangsters to carry out the killings.
These men have been in power – and have persecuted their opponents – ever since.”
Would you like Venezuela to be like Indonesia Gosman ????
Or do you have no concern for Indonesia ?
Is Indonesia better off than Venezuela in Gosmans world ???
For those who would like to learn more about Indonesias recent past and present I recommend the surreal and disturbing documentary ” The Act of Killing”. http://www.actofkilling.com/
“The films’ protagonists were part of a murderous frenzy in 1965 that lead to the killing of at least 1 million suspected “communists” and ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. The Act of Killing depicts old members of a death squad acting out their memories — fantasies even — of the murders and atrocities they committed nearly 50 years ago. If you are a reader of UN Dispatch or just generally care about human rights you need to see this documentary.
The Act of Killing raises profound questions about international human rights law, accountability, historical memory, and even the role of sadism in mass atrocity events.”
Presumably Heather would have been really annoyed with the Springbok protesters also, and would rather they went home and sent strongly worded letters to Muldoon instead.
I would love to be able to ask Heather what specific reason she has for supporting TPPA. I bet she could only say the cliched lines like:
It is good for the economy of NZ.
It is like all the other Free Trade agreements etc etc
But put on the spot I bet she couldn’t do more than talk in very general terms.
FFS Gosman – this is Waitangi weekend commemorating the signing of a treaty between two people. Maori have now lived with the loss of sovereignty for 175 years. They know what it is. This deal drawn up by corporations for corporations (with the compliance of willing govt officials) and effectively administered by corporate lawyers, will have an even more widespread effect on our governance than anything we have ever envisaged to date.
Governments will be effectively hamstrung to do the bidding and will of corporations over and above the interests of the citizens.
Key is the most incompetent, uncaring and irresponsible Prime Minister this country has ever had the misfortune to suffer. He hands over his Prime Ministerial responsibilities to his minions, with not a turn of the hair, ending in constant corrupt practices within his office; and he offers not an ounce of apology to the people for whom he is responsible – the People of NZ. This is just another episode in the decline in Government and the handing over of care to outside interests.
The TPPA is another battle in the class war conducted by successive governments around the world since the early 80’s — rolling back all the progressive legislation enacted in the wake of WW2.
It’s a continuation of NatCorp™’s crimes against working people, the poor, and tangata whenua.
This so called “neo-liberal consensus” cannot stand.
The American people [can be] divided into an investment class, a salary class, a wage class, and a welfare class. … People who get most of their income from one of those four things have a great many interests in common …
… Three of the four have remained roughly where they were. The investment class has actually had a bit of a rough time, as many of the investment vehicles that used to provide it with stable incomes—certificates of deposit, government bonds, and so on—have seen interest rates drop through the floor. Still, alternative investments and frantic government manipulations of stock market prices have allowed most people in the investment class to keep up their accustomed lifestyles.
The salary class, similarly, has maintained its familiar privileges and perks through a half century of convulsive change. Outside of a few coastal urban areas currently in the grip of speculative bubbles, people whose income comes mostly from salaries can generally afford to own their homes, buy new cars every few years, leave town for annual vacations, and so on. On the other end of the spectrum, the welfare class has continued to scrape by pretty much as before, dealing with the same bleak realities of grinding poverty, intrusive government bureacracy, and a galaxy of direct and indirect barriers to full participation in the national life, as their equivalents did back in 1966.
btw the outrage over the other countries may think about the dildo which has barely rated a mention, unlike the tugger incident, which was all over the international news is sheer hypocrisy.
But that’s the way they operate too. It’s not like anyone overseas cares that it’s the National Day. If they did care, they’d probably be more appalled that the PM couldn’t be arsed going to any official commemoration.
Maybe it’s all a lead up to making anzac the official day.
John Campbell is subtle and brilliant…and John Key declined an invitation to be interviewed… just as he declined open debate at Waitangi for all New Zealand to view ….and he declined open democratic debate in Parliament
John Campbell throws light into the darkness…(this is why jonkey’s friends got rid of him from TV3)
jonkey is gutless and undemocratic…he slithers around in secrecy like a Gollum
Speaking of Groser, Winston Peters made an interesting comment about him during a speech on Friday opposed to the TPPA, reffering to the snake oil salesman’s appointment to the United States. Sounds like he has something coming out about this ‘job for the boys’. He also has a crack at Mike Hosking which gave me quite a laugh.
The thing that really impressed me the other day was rather than going to a major event with the other party leaders attended by Governor General also, Peters commits to coming along to a anti TPPA rally instead, which was pretty much a washout for a crowd being an outdoor event in pouring rain. However we free styled it in an arcade and got the message out before the cops shut us down. Cheers Winston your a bloody ledgend! 87,000 views of your NZH video sure is getting the message out!
Winston goes without saying, however Clark was a pleasant surprise he spoke very well better than Robertson did at the Auckland Town Hall rally, and he was pretty solid.
With Labour it still boils back to their horseshit lateness in coming out, and then getting bushwhacked by first Goff and then Shearer. They lost alot of creds to the public on their true position, and for me probably till this bloke Clark declared a resounding no to the TPPA under it’s current format. Well done chap!
The intro to One News had footage of him being booed as he was walking out an exit from the field. It was a bit surprising to see them paint him in that negative way, I’m sure they have ignored these kind of things often in the past. The news story was a bit more positive and had him having selfies with people in the stand and interviewed a spectator that said Key should definitely be at the league rather than at the founding of a nation, blah blah.
He was booed on his way into the tunnel, going to meet and greet players, who when interviewed said such things as “he’s staunch” great guy, yadda, yadda accompanied with raised fist handshakes and bumping of shoulders. All very manly. Trevvy will be swooning at her man being all manly. Be still her beating heart. Oh, and lots of beaming selfie with rugged league players. So, all and all a positive time for Johnny enabled by Corin Dan and Gower. Nothing new from media.
well thats useful(not) …and informative in its blankness. I see advice from MoH was provided, is it likely that text may be able to be sourced from a different direction?
In anticipation of the next part of the TPPA debate (what happens if we leave?), this comment in response to Brian Easton saying we have little choice but to join the TPP because otherwise we will lose advantage in other trade deals and foreign affairs matters,
What you are effctively arguing Brian is that we have to give up our sovereign choice to stay a member of the club of sovereign nations involved in trade deals.
That’s interesting Weka. Brian Easton, as his article states, has been interested in us being an ethical and principled democracy for yonks. His views represent a warning to us, and presents the historic reasons for his concern. Good to get that wider background to set the TPPA in context – seems part of a linear progression. Do we draw a line in the sand before we succumb to it, what will be the reaction if we do, what will be the result if we don’t.
This from the link to Brian Easton in pundit in Weka’s comment. There is so much TPPA discussion, anxious, heated, emotional. This is good reading to get a cool understanding. Naturally Wayne Mapp likes it.
Thoseoutside often have little understanding of the complexity of the [international political] network. For instance a consequence of the legislation which made New Zealand nuclear-free and led to our ejection from ANZUS changed the balance in our relations with Australia and the US. Our practice had been to play one off against the other. When the US withdrew in a huff, we found ourselves much more dependent upon Australia; in one way our independence was reduced by being nuclear-free….
These complex interdependences also apply to trade negotiations….
The logic in this column is that we now do not have much choice about the TPPA. The government is trapped into agreeing to it because rejecting it has implications for other trade deals and our wider international relations. That is probably what our MFAT officials are advising, although no doubt there are many diverse views in there,…
Everyone will be watching the US, where the passage of the measures is likely to be most contentious. Many of the predictions of what will happen reflect the soothsayers’ view of the TPPA rather than a solid political assessment. There is considerable division among those who are informed. Some think the US Congress will agree to the deal this year because it is so crucial to US economic hegemony, particularly relations with Japan and the reducing of China’s economic leadership. Others think the Congress will not bear to give Obama a win and will hold it over to next year. Another view is that there are so many fish-hooks in the deal that Congress will not be able to get an agreement.
Until each of the partners has demonstrated they can implement the agreement, its provisions do not come into effect. When they have all done this the partners ratify the treaty. (Most required legislation will not come into effect until ratification.)
Easton raises export subsidies as likely to expand without agreements against them.
This enables excessive production with an attempt to gain export primacy by under-cutting unsubsidised nations production in that sector.
He says that signing seems to be a necessary strategic move now because of our interwoven relationships, while the ratification of all is necessary before it is fully implemented, which would be preferable to us withdrawing from the treaty.
Yes I see. I tried starting with a bold and ending with bold, it was a long one and I didn’t want to put it all in italics and I thought blockquote would make it too long.
Is there another sort of formatting I could do easily?
Perhaps I could use another font for a long quote – there is probably an option which I just haven’t found yet. Answering my own query, that is what I will try.
This article by Rod Oram is worthy of a post in its own right.
In it, he takes apart many of the points made by the TPP cheerleaders.
Claim #1 It is a Free Trade Agreement.
No, it isn’t. Too many tariffs and other barriers remain for it to deserve the accolade. Rather, it is a “managed trade” pact, argues Martin Sandbu, one of the best analysts at the Financial Times of London, in this article bit.ly/FTonTPPA.
Claim #2 ‘It will make us wealthy.’
No, it won’t. By 2030 it could lift our GDP by 0.9 per cent. With TPPA, we’d hit that target by January 1, 2030. Without TPPA we’d hit the target three months later.
Moreover, the government’s forecast of 0.9 per cent relies on heroic assumptions about easing non-tariff barriers. Analysis of this is coming thick and fast. Here’s a recent example from Tufts University in the US, bit.ly/TuftsTPPA and this from the Petersen Institute, the most respected, most apolitical of Washington trade think tanks, bit.ly/PetersenTPPA.
Claim #3 ‘The Investor State Dispute Settlement process has been around for years in other trade agreements, so there’s nothing to worry about. ‘
Yet the EU halted its FTA talks with the US because it said ISDS was a “very toxic issue.” It came back to the table with a bold proposal for a proper international judicial system for settling disputes.
We are about to start negotiating an FTA with the EU. Logically it will make the same judicial proposal to us. We should eagerly embrace it and actively push for the TPPA to follow suit.
He finishes his magnificent article as follows…..
‘ our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.
Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand’s reputation as an honest broker in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we achieve far more than a country our size should.
TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. ‘
Trust Rod Oram’s opinion far more than I trust Key’s, and glad that Rod is prepared to stick his head above the parapet, a good man, like one or two others.
Anyone else notice on last night’s news bulletins (Saturday Waitangi Day), the booing towards the PM at the league game?
Hee hee, and here was FJK thinking he was always going to remain the “most loved leader of all time in NZ”!
Seems the gutless wonder might just be falling foul of his once “adoring” public, as they finally wake up to the cheating, lying, deceptive traitor he really is!
Make no mistakes the Nats are reeling, I seen plenty of them up close and talked to a number of their Ministers, as they had a grace pass from Waitangi. While they were all trying to hold a brave confident business as usual manner about themselves. I can tell you they were rocked with the Auckland demolition job on their TPPA signing. They were wandering around the Bay of Islands like stunned mullets. From generally viewed as the supreme command to dirty sellout rats over night.
I enjoyed mocking a few of them, Parata a beauty at a restaurant where I was johnny on the spot after some media hack asked if she had been getting grief about things. She piped up not yet. I gave her a bit of a polite serve which wiped her cat smile off her face lol.
“I see John is a no show tomorrow after half the country were on the streets of Auckland eariler today…looks like the teflon is coming off…being ordered out of Waitangi tomorrow must be a blow for you.” she said “I will be there don’t you worry.” after my mate and myself burst into laughter, my reply was “yeah sure you will be keep telling yourself that.” With that she headed off but did appear to have lost the spring in her step, and glared back at me like I will remember you, or I have seen you around?
We laughed some more and then I gave what looked like Maori-Tory TV hacks she was with a serve which I can not repeat.
I was interested in the discrepancy between two news items yesterday. The letter from Nga puhi to the PM clearly attempted to gag him if he attended a powhiri at the Te Ti marae. It also claimed that it applied to all political parties. http://www.scribd.com/doc/297837989/Waitangi-Letter
Then we had this report from RNZ http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/295819/joyce-defends-tpp-negotiation-methods
Quoting from this we see that it says
“Labour leader Andrew Little did give a political speech on the marae today – despite the Prime Minister being told he was not allowed to do so. Mr Little, who spoke of the importance of sovereignty, said the marae trustees placed no restrictions on what he could talk about during the powhiri.”
There appear to be only 2 ways to interpret these two items.
Option 1. Ngapuhi lied in their letter to the PM. The gagging applied only to John Key and most definitely did not apply to Andrew Little. I can see why they would want this as a description of the TPPA and its effects by Key, in his clear and reasonable manner would show up Little’s buffoonery and waffle as being the words of a fool.
Option 2. Little is lying, or simply totally ignoring the protocol requested by his hosts.
He must have known about the letter to the PM and ignored it. Even Andrew couldn’t be so out of touch as to not have seen it. Alternatively he was provided with his own advice and ignored that.
If you think option 1 is correct do you think that Ngapuhi are duplicitous and that the Government should ignore their existence at future Waitangi ceremonies, at least until they provide John Key with a public apology?
If you think option 2 is the correct one can we expect some comment from the commenter on “PM should get over Waitangi” who said
“Hardly. It’s just that I was brought up to not go into someone else’s house and demand that they behave the way I want them to, especially if I’ve been invited in.
I’m sure that when people get invited to do things at parliament that there are processes that have to be adhered to. Key is entitled to stay away, but as PM of NZ he’s not entitled to be an arse. Not that that usually stops him”
Is Andrew going to be called an ignorant, uncouth boor and an arse?
The letter explains the kawa and it is up to those who would speak to know and follow that kawa if they want to respect their hosts. This can also change and be adjusted as tangata whenua determine. There is no big story around this alwyn. Key didn’t go as we know, he was a no show, all blow, needs to grow, needs to show he ain’t just the big no in nobody eh yo.
Little did what he did – has there been a call from tangata whenua alwyn asking for recompense, has this caused a real media storm??? NO it is just your little attempt to cause trouble and stir – you are so small alwyn.
“do you think that Ngapuhi are duplicitous and that the Government should ignore their existence at future Waitangi ceremonies”
LOL – you really are so ignorant alwyn – you have zero idea of what you are talking about – you are a balloon with a hole – softly sagging to nothingness
“Marty Mars is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing”
From what little sense I can get out of your remark you seem to think that Ngapuhi lied to the PM and that they intended to allow their mates from the Labour Party to talk politics at the powhiri.
what have you been smoking though?
another school homework site eh alwyn – didn’t you get embarrassed enough last time???
seem, intended and so on – this is all your petty stuff alwyn – instead of dealing with big issues of national importance you prefer to try and pin flies to another’s jacket – just don’t have anything worth saying, do you alwyn.
“this is all your petty stuff alwyn – instead of dealing with big issues”
Well yes I would have to agree that replying to your rubbish is dealing with petty stuff. I was just trying to make you feel that someone read what you had written, no matter how stupid you were.
Would it make you feel better if I ignored you in future and didn’t even bother reading what you say?. God knows, reading your contributions is certainly time wasted.
It’s almost as if the Bard wrote this to be aimed at you, Alwyn:
‘Sblood, you starveling, you elf-skin, you dried neat’s tongue, you bull’s pizzle, you stock-fish! O for breath to utter what is like thee! you tailor’s-yard, you sheath, you bowcase; you vile standing-tuck!
I really like the way Shakespeare used the comic characters to make Henry V such a kick to the ‘nads for the audience. I’ve never been particularly big on the comedies, but played Pistol in Henry V a few years back.
🙂 yes the Bard really knew how to deliver a good literal boot where it was needed.
The thespian in our family is my daughter (a grad of Toi Whakaari and Shakespeare and Co. in Lennox MA.)
Henry IV pt 1 was the first Shakespearian play I read – introduced at school – and I went immediately out and bought my own copy. I’m too lanky to play Falstaff but that is one part I would love to play.
If you’re looking for a figure of comic incompetence to represent Alwyn you can’t go past Dogberry in Much Ado About Nothing.
Marry, sir, they have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied a lady;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves.
lolz, is that you having a go at me alwyn? Quoting out of context again 🙄
3. Little understands how things work on the marae far better than you or Key or the MSM. Marty has said how it works. If after that you still don’t understand what happened yesterday I can’t explain it to you. I’ll give you a hint though, stop trying to understand it within a Pākehā framework.
Meanwhile, I thought this was interesting,
Greens welcomed ahead of Labour
Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said she was happy to abide by the no-politics rule of Te Tii Marae at Waitangi as her party were welcomed onto the grounds ahead of Labour today.
The Opposition parties were to be welcomed on at the same time, but instead the Greens were taken on for a separate powhiri, leaving Labour leader Andrew Little and his MPs standing in the rain for an hour.
“lolz, is that you having a go at me alwyn?”
Of course I was quoting you. I wouldn’t say it was having a go though.
I didn’t want to identify you publicly though in case you are, as you should be, embarrassed by what you said on Friday.
“Quoting out of context again”
Not at all. That was your entire comment. The only editing I did was to remove a superfluous blank line. You should see that what you said is completely relevant to what I was talking about and that you should either comment on Little’s behaviour or withdraw your remarks about Key.
Obtaining consistency from the left is always difficult of course.
As for your comment about the Green Party. Is Hone trying to wangle a high place on the Green Party list at the next election? That would probably cause Ngapuhi to suck up to her. Pretty foolish if the Green Party did such a thing of course but it wouldn’t be beyond them.
If you want to quote in context put up a link, it’s not rocket science. As for the rest I can’t be bothered trying to figure what twisted agenda you have today, got better things to do.
Alwyn, you waste of space, you haven’t murdered your king and your best friend to keep your wife sweet only to have her top herself. So yes, completely out of context.
“The Opposition parties were to be welcomed on at the same time, but instead the Greens were taken on for a separate powhiri, leaving Labour leader Andrew Little and his MPs standing in the rain for an hour.”
Yes and as I stood there, then watched from afar I could not help thinking maybe Little should call both Goff and Shearer and ask them if it is raining where they currently are?
If so, order them to go stand out in the rain till told otherwise, or if it was not raining to go stand under a cold shower till told otherwise.
But really there was a bit of silliness going on by a few players up there including Labour locals.
Wrong people. He should be abusing Matt McCarten for letting him go anywhere near the place.
Matt, if anyone, should have known that it would only result in Little looking, shall we say, shrunken.
After all Matt will know these people very well.
I was there Alwyn – Little did not look shrunken at all, he gave a good speech on Ti Tii Marae and he had a great response from all those present. The Greens went on with the Maori Womens Welfare League – it would have been a bit too much to have us, Labour, in there as well.
As it happened, it was a real tight squeeze for all of Labour and supporters to get into the marae. And because of the weather there was no outside mike, and canvas canopy as has been available on other years for all the extra people to listen to the proceedings outside. Hey – and a bit of rain never hurt anyone.
As for what politicians could say, as Andrew Little pointed out later, if John Key had fronted up and said here I am, and what can I speak about, he would have been okay. But he was too disturbed by the massive outcry against TPPA to do that.
Andrew’s speech was along the lines of “everything” is political, the Treaty of Waitangi itself was political, so anything he could say would have political overtones but the marae was a place for discussion, debate, and agreement, and that was what he was there for. (This is very much just a basic summary of what he said, not taken from any notes, just memory).
I notice Stuff is pushing Seymour – perhaps the VRWC is polishing a fresh turd to be ready in case Key, you know, inadvertantly trips and hangs himself in the shower or something.
[lprent: I ignore ‘subtle’. You have been warned before. Banned 1 week. ]
My understanding from one report (sorry, can’t remember where) is that both parties were meant to go on together, but the bus driver who was supposed to pick up the some of of the Labour MPs didn’t turn up making them late. The decision was then made to welcome the Green Party first. Nothing significant in it – just a mix up with transport.
Perhaps John Key should have confined himself to talking about sovereignty (which is after all what Waitangi day is about) rather than whining via letters and staffers that he wanted to attack the opposition to the TPPA.
“Key should have confined himself to talking about sovereignty”
The major sovereignty issue being talked about at the moment is the effect of the TPPA. The major objection to the TPPA is claims that it abridges our sovereignty.
Discussing sovereignty without talking about the TPPA would make about as much sense as talking about the campaign for the Democratic nomination for President this year without ever saying the name Bernie Sanders. It is totally impossible to do so and still make any sense.
So if John Key’s minders weren’t such arrogant arseholes and had specified that was the ‘politics’ he wanted to talk about…
But no – those dildos wanted to make a good headline so they deliberately muffed it by asking for something that they knew they would get the appropriate response to. Perhaps you could suggest why they did that?
What was it that they are supposed to have done? You say
“they deliberately muffed it by asking for something that they knew they would get the appropriate response to.”
Do you have some reference to this. A link would be nice.
All I have seen is various Ngapuhi leaders saying come/don’t come/come/don’t come. Key then said that if he couldn’t speak he wouldn’t go.
I note the limitation on talking politics doesn’t seem to have applied to Labour. Perhaps you can suggest why??
Even Hone, at least at one point seems to think Ngapuhi have stuffed up
“”It’s a national marae and Ngapuhi are the guardians of it. What they should have done is asked other leaders from other areas for their opinion, listened to them and then decided. They didn’t have to take a vote.”
“They handled the whole thing really badly,” he said.
Can you really blame the PM wanting to know what they were up to when we had reports like
“Following the vote there were mixed messages from leaders at the marae over whether Key would be invited or not.
Some media reported that Key had been blocked from the marae while others were told by leaders that he was welcome”.
More John Key hypocrisy. He slated the sex toy throwing incident as a bad showing for NZ as it went viral around the world. His point was that it reflected badly on our National Day.
The same National Day where he refused to front up as PM.
The same Prime Ministerwho denigrated his high office by having his hair-pulling antics go viral around the world. The same Prime Minister who joked about anal rape in prisons. The same PM who now is booed in public by ordinary Kiwi voters.
I would like to make a comment as a someone who has lurked on the Standard for a while and for several reasons has only made a few posts.
I come to the Standard for some encouragement in what I feel are dark times, to learn something about the issues we are facing as a country and in our communities, and to remind me that I am not the only person in New Zealand who thinks the way I do.
To have discussions polluted by muppets whose sole reason for posting seems to be to derail or divert is incredibly frustrating. There are whole threads I now skim through as it seems to me far too much energy is being expended by people whose opinion I respect (mostly) debating with trolls.
Whole discussions just get bogged down which I suspect is their whole purpose.
I admire the perseverance of those who bother to debate with them as it may be a bit harder now that someone since the New Year seems to have pushed the “Reasoned Debate” button.
For me the Standard has been a beacon but it has dimmed a bit recently and maybe that is exactly what someone wants.
If we ban too often it involves more work for moderators. I know from long experience that causes an ever escalating pressure on moderator time. So there is always a balance required between the amount of effort required to moderate and the constaining of debate.
The most effective way to ban is to give very long bans because then we don’t have to keep banning people as often. In particular using a fast exponential scale for timespans and a low toleration for fools. That massively reduces the workload. But does cause other issues.
It causes muttering about moderators who do this by people (and other moderators) saying that there is too much banning. Especially as most have different ideas about what piss-poor behaviour is.
In particular the more partisan who seem to think that piss-poor behaviour by lefties should be treated differently to piss-poor behaviour by the right.
Personally I don’t care that much what political affiliations or views someone has, because I see quite a lot of piss-poor behaviour from all shades of the political spectrum. I’m mainly concerned with their behaviour on this site and if it affects the intent of what the site is designed for – to discuss topics of interest to the labour movement and to have robust debate.
Of course since many of the right come here to purely to disrupt either directly or with the subtlety (that I simply gaze straight through), they collect much of the moderation.
Incidentally my usual response to respectful criticism about moderation (if I don’t ban the person for trying to tell us what to do) is to simply curtail my banning – equally. I simply raise my personal threshold for bans and reduce the time span I give them for. Then I get conversations like this…
The real solution as was pointed out is for commenters to simply not to respond. Most of the unthinking trolls will then proceed to fall into astroturfing the site with whatever their latest line is trying to get a response – and suffer the inevitable result.
But since I’m currently on hold for my next overseas trip, I’ll have a look around again for a tech solution.
Personally, I quite like the comment the Huffington Post puts at the bottom of every article about Trump.
“Editor’s note: Donald Trump is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist, birther and bully who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.”
Maybe it’s easily feasible to automatically attach some sort of disclaimer to the start of regular offender’s comments?
Do they note that Clinton is a serial warmonger, has lied over and over again on what happened in Benghazi and her email records all around that time, that her hubby Bill signed NAFTA which helped destroy the American blue collar class, and best of all is on the take from the billionaire bankster fraternity, charging a quarter million dollars per speaking engagement?
Wouldn’t be hard to do technically. The only real issue would be that I’d have to either set it for the identity for every comment that they have done over time, or somehow plug it into the comment-meta while posting a comment.
The reason for the latter is that we forgive after a ban until there is a need to ban again. Then previous convictions count on their sentence.
Yes – the css attribute of display:none would make them easily invisible. I’d just have to add a extra div to allow hide/open. Obviously these are personal preferences and there are some limits to what could be done because they’d need to be done at client side using javsacript and cookies.
The only real issues with it is remembering which ones you have dropped and that they will have to either close collapsed comments or open non-collapsed comments at the user side, that it will make pages slower to open, and some screen real estate would have to be sacrificed for activating ‘buttons’.
This site effectively doesn’t run logins, and these days pages offered to non-logged users are effectively all the same. This minimizes the amount of processing the server has to do and strongly decreases the useful information about commenters that court orders could extract.
So any information stored on which comment threads are dropped has to be available on client side via cookies and acted upon via javascript executed on the client browser. Cookies are stored per client browser. So would the collapses. If you read the pages in both safari and chrome, then they would have different collapses.
When a page is opened, it’d open with either all comments visible or no comments visible. Either has issues that would need working around.
In the latter case , the javascript would locate the collapsed comments for the current page out of cookies. It would walk the invisible comments seeing if the comment should be opened, and open it. It would then have to find the comment you were last reading or wrote and jump to it. This last step is tricky to do compared to the existing system.
In the former case, the page would be set to the correct comment, and then the javascript would have to walk to collapse comments. The issue here is that you are unlikely to view at the last comment you were reading quite as well if there are collapses further up the page. The page could be jumping around quite a lot as you start reading it.
O.k. thanks I thought it was worth asking as thread collapsing is not uncommon on other sites but I have no idea of the (technical) implications, obviously.
On a different note, I still experience issues with loading of TS pages. For example, OM 07/02/2016 and OM 08/02/2016 did not load this morning (empty page) and OM 08/02/2016 still doesn’t!?
I notice something odd, that my old comments window comes back when I am doing a new one, though the old one is shown on the list at right and appears in the post.
This morning I ended up typing my second one in the comment window of my first one which had been ‘published’. So that was confusing – I refreshed with F5 to clear it and it was still there I think. Bit confused now.
Anyway everything got through after I juggled with them a bit.
That is client side caching – the server has no idea what is in the textarea used for comments. Probably the clear in the javascript that saves the comment wasn’t getting called or wasn’t activating correctly.
I’ll have a look over lunch to check that it isn’t a general problem. But it is most likely that your browser was having a bit of a brain fade. Usually restarting the browser (or logging out or restarting the system if the browser has a ‘fast start’) will fix it.
“The real solution as was pointed out is for commenters to simply not to respond.”
Any chance you could hire some cat herders? 😉 Commenters not responding to trolls only works if most or all refrain. That’s not going to happen here, and so the threads often get filled with troll call and response even if a whole bunch of people are ignoring them. Those conversations become the dominant ones because some people just walk away and others get drawn to where the energy and entertainment is.
There are lots of people commenting on ts whose otherwise good comments get ignored. One thing that those of us* sick of the troll fests could do is start talking to each other. Make those conversations the ones that are interesting. To that end, and speaking of tech, I’ve come round to the idea of a like button or similar. Maybe trial it anyway, to see if people knowing that their comments are valued even if not getting much response intially might increase responses and generate other kinds of conversations. All the usual caveats about use and abuse of such tech by commenters (and trolls).
*I have a foot in both camps, mainly because I love a good argument so the more interesting troll threads are enticing. Arguing with people who think differently than me also helps me clarify my thinking, although it would be nice to argue more with differently thinking lefties than righties or trolls (of any stripe).
Whereas goats are far far more infuriating. Most of the time they act like herd animals. But in every drive there will always be one or two who decide to be contrary and to drag part of the herd with them. After they get experienced, even good farm doags don’t like tangling with a contrarian goat…
The only thing that that goats respect is electric fences. A good hard unexpected shock tends to modify their behaviour.
I do have a like button plugin that I was prototyping and extending. I’ll have another look at where I got to with it.
Sorry can’t agree with you there Paul. I would miss the comedy and daily fun when the likes of Gosman comes on ranting about the brain dead fuckwits from the right favorite cot case called Venezuela, or Greece. What would we do if we did not have our daily dose of seeing how their shit is taken down time after time after time. Some of the replies these prats get are very smart and I am sure we can all survive the crap they come out with.
Yeah – I get sick of the trolls, too, Grey Area. I totally agree with you – if only posters wouldn’t respond to them maybe the trolls would give up !! and pigs might fly ……
But the trolls keep pushing buttons on some of our most concerned, informed and sincere commenters. Then there are the argumentative ones that can’t keep their hands off the keyboards. I have suggested a number limit that would control the output and as we rarely have very long and informed discussions we could manage that. It could be that if there was a bypass key available for a moderator to use for one of those great Socratic? discussions that would be good. But it could involve quite a lot of fiddling and coding for not much. But limits on contributions for a certain time perhaps could be done, then people would think twice about using up their ‘budget’ on trols and the trols would have to limit their puerile input.
Personally, I try really hard not to give in to the temptation to respond to the usual suspects. But occasionally one puts up a plausible looking piece of bullshit, that if left unchallenged might end up looking like accepted truth to silent lurkers.
But I can certainly do without scrolling past the endless handbag fights to find the substantive discussions.
“But occasionally one puts up a plausible looking piece of bullshit, that if left unchallenged might end up looking like accepted truth to silent lurkers.”
That’s the dilemma and is the main argument of the troll fighters (except they don’t use the word ‘occasionally’).
Also, most of us have different ideas about what a troll is.
you realise of course that by coming here and engaging, the trolls have a chance at rehabilitation? compared to some of the bottom dwellers at KB most of our rwnj friends are positively enlightened…
i think it’s always worthwhile hearing the other side of a political debate, at least our righties show more intelligence than Hosking and Henry
So the economic theory is as modern as it can be. But do Kiwis understand the downside risk of a financialised economy employing all the latest investment bank and hedge fund tricks, Newberry asks?
“Shareholders in a business aren’t ever going to lose anything more than what they put in. It is limited liability investing. But the difference with corporate-style governmental accounting is that it is unlimited liability. It is New Zealand’s taxpayers and residents who are on the hook if there are any problems.”
somewhat like Greece…..there was an interesting BBC piece on RNZ today….the parallels with TTPA were striking….think this is the piece (its not available on RNZ at mo)
quote: Switching oil sales to euros makes sense as Europe is now one of Iran’s biggest trading partners.
“Many European companies are rushing to Iran for business opportunities, so it makes sense to have revenue in euros,” said Robin Mills, chief executive of Dubai-based Qamar Energy.
Iran has pushed for years to have the euro replace the dollar as the currency for international oil trade. In 2007, Tehran failed to persuade OPEC members to switch away from the dollar, which its then President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called a “worthless piece of paper”.
The NIOC source said Iran’s central bank instituted a policy while the country was under sanctions over its disputed nuclear programme to carry out foreign trade in euros.
“Iran shifted to the euro and cancelled trade in dollars because of political reasons,” the source said.
In mid Jan, the US slapped a new range of sanctions on Iran less than 24 hours after Iran had promptly released a group of US naval personnel who had been caught intruding in Iranian territorial waters.
Basically Iran made a move to strengthen new ties with the US, and the US returned the gesture with the middle finger.
This. While the issues aren’t exactly the same as the US, in NZ this is a little-discussed aspect of the housing crises. Banks and councils are putting pressure on people to build houses much bigger than they need, and people too often are building an investment rather than a home.
“. . . the problem is not so much that some people can’t maintain housing, but that our standard of housing has become inaccessible. Today, the average American requires more than three times the amount of space when compared to 1950. Back then, a new single-family house in the U.S. came in at 983 square feet with an average of 3.38 persons per household. But by 2012, the average new house size had expanded to 2500 square feet, with an average of only 2.55 persons per household. This means each American apparently now requires about 980 square feet of space per person – the same amount that was once sufficient to house the average family. And over ten percent of all housing inventory is vacant.”
Banks and councils are putting pressure on people to build houses much bigger than they need, and people too often are building an investment rather than a home.
This is all driven by private sector developers targetting projects towards the top 1%/top 5%, with too easy finance from the banking sector.
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Uh uh, KātuareheYou ain't readyWe're not flying on the same planeUh, KātuareheYou ain't readyI see you trying it's a damn shame, uhSong by Anna CoddingtonThis morning, I was going to write about some of the stories from the week, but it was all a bit depressing. “The Trickle Down that ...
Government budget problems and public service cuts are putting pressure on communities, with frontline services and media integrity at risk. E tū is sounding the alarm over TVNZ’s cost-cutting; MUNZ challenges KiwiRail layoffs and Unions Wellington succeeded in stopping the sale of Wellington Airport. With this economic uncertainty, grassroots efforts ...
Kia ora and welcome to another weekly roundup of stories that caught our eye about cities and how they work. Feel free to share any links we might have missed, in the comments below. As always, this post is compiled by our largely volunteer team, and your support makes it ...
Open access notablesManifold increase in the spatial extent of heatwaves in the terrestrial Arctic, Rantanen et al., Communications Earth & Environment:It is widely acknowledged that the intensity, frequency and duration of heatwaves are increasing worldwide, including the Arctic. However, less attention has been paid to the land area affected ...
While we were away earlier this year, some men got into our house and took away the big slider door and windows that open onto our upstairs deck. I watched the whole thing happen on the other side of the world on our security camera. I had told the guy who ...
Vox Populi: It is worth noting that if Auckland’s public health services were forced to undergo cutbacks of the same severity as Dunedin’s, and if the city’s Mayor and its daily newspaper were able to call the same percentage of its citizens onto the streets, then the ensuing demonstrations would number ...
One of the risks of National's Muldoonist fast-track law is corruption. If Ministers can effectively approve projects by including them in the law for rubberstamping, then that creates some very obvious incentives for applicants seeking approval and Ministers seeking to line their or their party's pockets. And its a risk ...
“The Government accounts released today show that spending and debt continues to grow under the current Government, but there is no plan to deliver a better economy,” said NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi Economist Craig Renney. “Net Core Crown Debt increased by $20bn last year, with revenue from taxation also rising ...
The Reserve Bank announced yesterday a 0.5% cut to the OCR, which the CTU has called “a recognition of weakness” in a floundering economy. Joint health unions have released a letter sent to Health NZ regarding cuts to digital infrastructure, amidst the news coming out of the 450-page document dump ...
In May, Florida’s Governer Ron DeSantis, who called Florida the place where “woke goes to die”, signed in a law that scrubbed climate change from the state’s thinking.Gone was the concept of climate change - and addressing planet-warming pollution was no longer Florida’s concern. Instead, the state’s priorities would focus ...
I am caught in the change of a tropical rainstormOut there between green and blueAnd it’s telling me that you’re so hard to forgetI'm a traveller just passing throughAsian Paradise by Sharon O'Neill.Note: With the coalition's actions, it can be hard these days to tell if something is satirical or ...
Hello to all. Due to the need to travel to Australia to be with an unwell family member there will not be a Hoon today at 5pm and I will not be posting emails or podcasts until next week at the earliest.Ngā mihi nuiBernard ...
All-new 2023 census data has just been released, giving a great window into: how many New Zealanders there are, who we are, where we work (and how we get there), and who still has landline phones (31% of households!). But it’s also fun* to put things in a historical context. ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsEmily Ogburn, right, hugs her friend Cody Klein after he brought her a meal on October 2, 2024, in Swannanoa, North Carolina. Ogburn's home was spared and she spent the morning of the storm helping and comforting neighbors who had found shelter on ...
Back in April, Teanau Tuiono's member's bill to undo a historic crime and restore citizenship to Samoans stripped of it by Muldoon unexpectedly passed its first reading and was sent to select committee. That committee has now reported back. But while the headline is that it has unanimously recommended that ...
How's this for an uncomfortable truth?The Nazis' industrial killing was new, and the Jewish case is different. But so is every case. And some things are all too similar....…European world expansion, accompanied as it was by shameless defence of extermination, created habits of thought and political precedents that made way ...
Welcome to the August/September 2024 Economic Bulletin. In our monthly feature we provide an analysis of the gender pay gap in New Zealand for 2024. The mean gender pay gap was 8.9%, which is down from 9.8% in 2023. This meant that, on average, women will be “working for free” ...
The scale of delays on our rail network were highlighted by the Herald last week and while it’s bad, it also highlights the huge opportunity for getting our rail network back up to speed. KiwiRail has promised to cut delays on Auckland trains, amid growing concerns about the readiness of ...
Kia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, October 9:The Government has cut $6 million from subsidies for an Auckland social housing provider with three days notice, which will force it to leave houses empty ...
Once I could laugh with everyoneOnce I could see the good in meThe black and the white distinctivelyColouringHolding the world insideNow, all the world is grey to meNobody can seeYou gotta believe it!Songwriter: Brian MayMartyn Bradbury, aka Bomber, a workingman’s flat cap and a beard ripe for socialism. Love him ...
I know it may seem an odd and obvious thing to break a year's worth of radio silence over, but how come the British Conservative Party MPs (and to be fair, the Labour Labour Party, when they have their leadership shenanigans) get to use a different and better way electoral ...
HealthNZ yesterday “dropped” 454 pages of documents relating to its financial performance over the last 18 months. The documents confirm that it has a massive structural deficit, which, without savings, is expected to be $1.4 billion annually beyond the current financial year. But the papers also suggest that Health NZ ...
Hi,It’s been awhile since we’ve done an AMA on Webworm — so let’s do it. Over the next 48 hours, I’ll be milling around in the comments answering any questions you might have. Leave a commentI genuinely look forward to these things as I love the Webworm community so much ...
This is a re-post from the Climate BrinkMuch of my immediate family lives in Asheville and Black Mountain, NC. While everyone is thankfully safe, this disaster struck much closer to home for me than most. There is lots that needs to be done for disaster relief, and I’d encourage folks ...
The past couple of days, an online furore has blown up regarding commentator/scholar Corey Olsen and his claim that there is no Tolkienian canon. The sort of people who delight in getting outraged over such things have been piling onto Olsen, and often doing it in a matter that is ...
Perhaps when the archaeologists come picking their way through the ruins of a civilisation that was so fond of its fossil fuel comforts it wasn't prepared to give up any of them, they will find these two artefacts. Read more ...
Here in Aotearoa, our right-wing, ATLAS-network-backed government is rolling back climate policy and plotting to raise emissions to allow the fossil fuel industry a few more years of profit. And in Canada, their right-wing, ATLAS-network-backed opposition is campaigning on doing the same thing: Mass hunger and malnutrition. A looming ...
UPDATED:August 2024The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi (NZCTU) notes with extreme concern the ongoing genocide in Gaza, as well as the continued encroachment of illegal Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories. The NZCTU is extremely concerned that there is increasing risk of a broader regional ...
I’m just a bottom feederScum of the earthAnd I’m cursedWith the burden of empathyMy fellow humans matter to meBottom Feeder - Written, Performed and Recorded by Tane Cotton.Bottom Feeder or Fluffernutter, which one are you? Or, more to the point, which do you identify as? It’s not simply a measure ...
Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says he anticipates an increase in people “coming into the Corrections system”. The Corrections Department has applied for fast tracking so it will be able to add more beds at Mt Eden Prison when needed. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top six ...
Remember when a guy walked into a mosque and shot everyone inside? He killed 44 people. And he then drove to a second mosque and shot and killed 7 more. He was on his way to a third mosque in Ashburton when he was stopped and arrested by the New ...
This is a re-post from the Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler On Bluesky, it was pointed out that Asheville, NC was recently listed as a place to go to avoid the climate crisis. link Mother Nature sent a “letter to the editor” indicating that she didn’t agree: ...
On the weekend, Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop admitted that not everyone will “like” his fast track wish-list, before adding: “We are a government that does not shy away from those tough decisions.” Hmm. IMO, there’s nothing “tough” about a government using its numbers in Parliament to bulldoze aside the public’s ...
First they came for Newshub, and I said nothing because I didn’t watch TV3. Then they came for One News, and I said nothing because I didn’t pay much attention to them either. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out because all the ...
Something I especially like about you all, you loyal and much-appreciated readers of More Than A Feilding, is that you are so very widely experienced and knowledgeable. Not just saying that. You really are.So I'm mindful as I write today that at least one of you has been captain of an ...
On Friday, Luxon and Reti were at Ormiston Private Hospital to talk up the benefits of private money in public health. [And defend Casey Costello - that’s a given for now by our National Party Ministers - including the medical doctor Shane Reti.]Luxon and Reti said we were going to ...
Hi,If you are unfortunate like me, you will have seen this image over the weekend.Donald Trump returned to the site of his near-assassination in Butler, Pennsylvania — except this time he brought Elon Musk with him. It’s difficult to keep up with Trump’s brain, but he seems to have dropped ...
The National Government has sneakily reneged on protecting the Hauraki Gulf, reducing the protected area of the marine park and inviting commercial fishing in the depleted seascape. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the Government’s response to the report into the North Island weather events but urges it to push forward with legislative change this term. ...
The Green Party echoes a call for banks to divest from entities linked to Israel’s illegal settlements in Palestine, and says Crown Financial Institutions should follow suit. ...
Te Whatu Ora’s finances have deteriorated under the National Government, turning a surplus into a deficit, and breaking promises made to New Zealanders to pay for it. ...
The Prime Minister’s decision to back his firearms minister on gun law changes despite multiple warnings shows his political judgement has failed him yet again. ...
Yesterday the government announced the list of 149 projects selected for fast-tracking across Aotearoa. Trans-Tasman Resources’ plan to mine the seabed off the coast of Taranaki was one of these projects. “We are disgusted but not surprised with the government’s decision to fast-track the decimation of our seabed,” said Te ...
At Labour’s insistence, Te Whatu Ora financial documents have been released by the Health Select Committee today showing more cuts are on the way for our health system. ...
Fresh questions have been raised about the conduct of the Firearms Minister after revelations she misled New Zealanders about her role in stopping gun reforms prior to the mosque shootings. ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford still can’t confirm when the Government will deliver the $2 billion worth school upgrades she cut earlier this year. ...
Labour acknowledges the hundreds of workers today losing their jobs as the Winstone Pulp mill closes and what it will mean for their families and community. ...
In Budget '24, the National Government put aside $216 million to pay for a tax cut which mainly benefitted one company: global tobacco giant Philip Morris. Instead of giving hundreds of millions to big tobacco, National could have spent the money sensibly, on New Zealand. ...
Te Whatu Ora’s financials from the last year show the Government has manufactured a financial crisis to justify making cuts that are already affecting patient care. ...
Over 41,000 Palestinian’s have been murdered by Israel in the last 12 months. At the same time, Israel have launched attacks against at least four other countries in the Middle East including Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and Iran. “You cannot play the aggressor and the victim at the same time,” said ...
Associate health minister Casey Costello has made a fool of the Prime Minister, because the product she’s been fighting to get a tax cut for and he’s been backing her on is now illegal – and he doesn’t seem to know it. ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee’s inquiry into climate adaptation is something that must be built on for an enduring framework to manage climate risk. ...
The Government is taking tertiary education down a worrying path with new reporting finding that fourteen of the country’s sixteen polytechnics couldn’t survive on their own,” Labour’s tertiary education spokesperson Dr Deborah Russell says. ...
Today the government announced a $30m cut to Te Ahu o Te Reo Māori- a programme that develops te reo Māori among our kaiako. “This announcement is just the latest in an onslaught of attacks on te iwi Māori,” said Te Pāti Māori Co-Leader Rawiri Waititi. ...
The Government has shown its true intentions for the public service and economy – it’s not to get more public servants back to the office, it’s more job losses. ...
The National Government is hiding the gaps in the health workforce from New Zealanders, by not producing a full workforce plan nearly a year into their tenure. ...
Legislation that will help protect New Zealanders from cybercrime has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “11% of New Zealanders were victims of fraud and cybercrime in 2023, causing significant financial harm and emotional distress. “The Budapest Convention, also known as the Council of Europe ...
Good evening Before discussing the ‘advancing of New Zealand and Asia relations’, we would like to congratulate the Asia New Zealand Foundation and acknowledge its significant contribution to New Zealand’s relationship with, and understanding of, Asia over the past 30 years. Can we also welcome Thitinan Pongsudhirak, one of ...
Kia ora koutou Greetings from Wellington. I am sorry I can’t be with you in person today, but I’m delighted that I can talk to you virtually. I’d like to begin by acknowledging your chair Bill Goodwin and members of your board. I’d also like to acknowledge the fitness of ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is travelling this week to Bangkok for talks with his Thai counterpart, and to Jakarta to attend the inauguration of Indonesia’s next President, Prabowo Subianto. “New Zealand is committed to our Comprehensive Partnership with Indonesia, and our shared ties as democracies in the Indo-Pacific region,” Mr ...
The one-stop-shop Fast-track Approvals Bill, and the 149 projects listed in the Bill, will help rebuild our struggling economy and kick-start economic growth across the country, Minister for Infrastructure Chris Bishop says. “Since 2022, New Zealand has battled anaemic levels of economic growth. If we want Kiwi kids to stop ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today announced the appointment of Sir Brian Roche as the next Public Service Commissioner. “I am delighted to appoint Sir Brian to this crucial leadership position,” Mr Luxon says. “Sir Brian is a highly respected New Zealander who has held significant roles across the public and ...
Forestry Minister Todd McClay today announced the establishment of a Forestry Sector Reference Group to drive better outcomes from the Forestry Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) Registry. “We are committed to working with the forestry sector to provide greater transparency and engagement on the forestry ETS registry as we work to ...
New Zealand’s fuel resilience is being strengthened to ensure people and goods keep moving and connected to the world in case of disruptions, Associate Energy Minister Shane Jones says. “Fuel security is a priority for the Coalition Government. We are acutely aware of how important engine fuels are to our ...
The Government will reform New Zealand’s Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism (AML/CFT) system to provide significant regulatory relief for businesses, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “Cabinet has approved an AML/CFT reform work programme which will ensure streamlined, workable, and effective regulations for businesses, law enforcement, and ...
Significant reforms are underway in the building and construction portfolio to help enable more affordable homes and a stronger economy, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “If we want to grow the economy, lift incomes, create jobs and build more affordable, quality homes we need a construction sector that ...
Minister Responsible for the GCSB and Minister of Defence Judith Collins will travel to Singapore and Brussels for Singapore International Cyber Week and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Defence Ministers’ Meeting. New Zealand has been invited to attend the NATO meeting alongside representatives from the European Union and the ...
Toitū ngā pōito o te kupenga a Toitehuatahi! A Government commitment to restoring the health and mauri of the Hauraki Gulf/Tīkapa Moana will enhance the area for generations to come, Minister of Conservation Tama Potaka says. Cabinet recently agreed to pass the Hauraki Gulf/Tīkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill into law, ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour says the Government has committed to action on overseas investment, where the country’s policy settings are the worst in the developed world and holding back wage growth. “Cabinet has agreed to the principles for reforming our overseas investment law. At the core of these principles ...
The annual East Asia Summit (EAS) held in Laos this week underscored the critical role that the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) plays in ensuring a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. "My first participation in an EAS has been a valuable opportunity to engage ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says the feedback from the health and safety roadshow will help shape the future of health and safety in New Zealand and grow the economy. “New Zealand’s poorly performing health and safety system could be costing this country billions,” says Ms van ...
The Government has released the independent Advisory Group’s report on the 384 projects which applied to be listed in the Fast-track Approvals Bill, and further detail about the careful management of Ministers’ conflicts of interest, Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop says. Independent Advisory Group Report The full report has now been ...
The Government Policy Statement (GPS) on electricity clearly sets out the Government’s role in delivering affordable and secure electricity at internationally competitive prices, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says.“New Zealand’s economic growth and prosperity relies on Kiwi households and businesses having access to affordable and secure electricity at internationally competitive prices. ...
The Government has broadly accepted the findings of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care whilst continuing to consider and respond to its recommendations. “It is clear the Crown utterly failed thousands of brave New Zealanders. As a society and as the State we should have done better. ...
The brakes have been put on contractor and consultant spending and growth in the public service workforce, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. “Workforce data released today shows spending on contractors and consultants fell by $274 million, or 13 per cent, across the public sector in the year to June 30. ...
The Crown accounts for the 2023/24 year underscore the need for the Government’s ongoing efforts to restore discipline to public spending, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Financial Statements of the Government for the year ended 30 June 2024 were released today. They show net core Crown net debt at ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will chair negotiations on carbon markets at this year’s United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) alongside Singapore’s Minister for Sustainability and Environment, Grace Fu. “Climate change is a global challenge, and it’s important for countries to be enabled to work together and support each other ...
A new confirmation of payments system in the banking sector will make it safer for Kiwis making bank transactions, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “In my open letter to the banks in February, I outlined several of my expectations of the sector, including the introduction of a ...
Associate Health Minister with responsibility for Pharmac David Seymour is pleased to see Pharmac continue to increase availability of medicines for Kiwis with the Government’s largest ever investment in Pharmac. “Pharmac operates independently, but it must work within the budget constraints set by the Government,” says Mr Seymour. “When our ...
The Government has released its long-term vision to strengthen New Zealand’s disaster resilience and emergency management, Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced today. “It’s clear from the North Island Severe Weather Events (NISWE) Inquiry, that our emergency management system was not fit-for-purpose,” Mr Mitchell says. “We’ve seen first-hand ...
Today’s cut in the Official Cash Rate (OCR) to 4.75 per cent is welcome news for families and businesses, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. “Lower interest rates will provide much-needed relief for households and businesses, allowing families to keep more of their hard-earned money and increasing the opportunities for businesses ...
Sport & Recreation Minister Chris Bishop has asked Sport NZ to review and update its Guiding Principles for the Inclusion of Transgender People in Community Sport. “The Guiding Principles, published in 2022, were intended to be a helpful guide for sporting bodies grappling with a tricky issue. They are intended ...
The Coalition Government is restoring confidence to the rural sector by pausing the rollout of freshwater farm plans while changes are made to ensure the system is affordable and more practical for farmers and growers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “Freshwater farm plans ...
The latest report from the Ministry for the Environment (MfE) and Stats NZ, Our air 2024, reveals that overall air quality in New Zealand is improving, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Statistics Minister Andrew Bayly say. “Air pollution levels have decreased in many parts of the country. New Zealand is ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts has announced the appointment of Stuart Horne as New Zealand’s Climate Change Ambassador. “I am pleased to welcome someone of Stuart’s calibre to this important role, given his expertise in foreign policy, trade, and economics, along with strong business connections,” Mr Watts says. “Stuart’s understanding ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister Casey Costello have announced a pilot to increase childhood immunisations, by training the Whānau Āwhina Plunket workforce as vaccinators in locations where vaccine coverage is particularly low. The Government is investing up to $1 million for Health New Zealand to partner ...
The Government is looking at strengthening requirements for building professionals, including penalties, to ensure Kiwis have confidence in their biggest asset, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says “The Government is taking decisive action to make building easier and more affordable. If we want to tackle our chronic undersupply of houses ...
The Government is taking further action to tackle the unacceptable wait times facing people trying to sit their driver licence test by temporarily extending the amount of time people can drive on overseas licences from 12 months to 18 months, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The previous government removed fees for ...
The Government has reaffirmed its commitment to ensuring New Zealand is a safe and secure place to do business with the launch of new cyber security resources, Small Business and Manufacturing Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Cyber security is crucial for businesses, but it’s often discounted for more immediate business concerns. ...
Investment in Apprenticeship Boost will prioritise critical industries and targeted occupations that are essential to addressing New Zealand’s skills shortages and rebuilding the economy, Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds and Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston say. “By focusing Apprenticeship Boost on first-year apprentices in targeted occupations, ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has announced a funding boost for Palmerston North ED to reduce wait times and improve patient safety and care, as well as new national standards for moving acute patients through hospitals. “Wait times in emergency departments have deteriorated over the past six years and Palmerston ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has announced a funding boost for Palmerston North ED to reduce wait times and improve patient safety and care, as well as new national standards for moving acute patients through hospitals. “Wait times in emergency departments have deteriorated over the past six years and Palmerston ...
Mehemea he pai mō te tangata, mahia! If it’s good for the people, get on with it! A $35 million Government investment will enable the delivery of 100 affordable rental homes in partnership with Waikato-Tainui, Associate Minister of Housing Tama Potaka says. Investment for the partnership, signed and announced today ...
This week’s inaugural Ethnic Xchange Symposium will explore the role that ethnic communities and businesses can play in rebuilding New Zealand’s economy, Ethnic Communities Minister Melissa Lee says. “One of my top priorities as Minister is unlocking the economic potential of New Zealand’s ethnic businesses,” says Ms Lee. “Ethnic communities ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters are renewing New Zealand’s calls for restraint and de-escalation, on the first anniversary of the 7 October terrorist attacks on Israel. “New Zealand was horrified by the monstrous actions of Hamas against Israel a year ago today,” Mr Luxon says. ...
Kia uru kahikatea te tū. Projects referred for Fast-Track approval will help supercharge the Māori economy and realise the huge potential of Iwi and Māori assets, Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka says. Following robust and independent review, the Government has today announced 149 projects that have significant regional or national ...
North Canterbury principals have responded to comments from Associate Education Minister David Seymour suggesting schools will no longer be allowed to hold teacher-only days during the school term. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Angel Zhong, Associate Professor of Finance, RMIT University Galdric PS/Shutterstock In a move that could reshape how Australians pay for everyday purchases, the federal government is preparing to ban businesses from slapping surcharges on debit card transactions. This plan, pending a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anne Twomey, Professor Emerita in Constitutional Law, University of Sydney Tarong power stationStanwell Queensland Premier Steven Miles this week declared his party would hold a plebiscite on nuclear power if it returns to office at the forthcoming state election. The ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ben Green, Research Fellow, Centre for Social and Cultural Research, Griffith University Multinational concert promoter Live Nation Entertainment has come under fire, with an ABC Four Corners investigation saying its unprecedented market power is open to abuse. The report follows concerns ...
Nicola Willis' comments on Newstalk ZB this morning were totally over the top. While Wellington City Council might be a sea of red ink, with blood up the walls, backstabbing and skulduggery, this sort of polarised rhetoric is not called for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Welch, Senior Lecturer in Urban Planning, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau New Zealand’s infrastructure woes are a constant political pain point. From ageing water systems to congested roads and assets increasingly threatened by climate change, the country faces mammoth upgrading ...
The sudden and deep cuts left many of those providing the services scrambling to make ends meet, resulting in job losses and the loss of critical support for many. ...
An increasingly manic diary of Hollywood Avondale’s 24-hour film marathon, as it celebrates its 25th anniversary. I would say that I am a very casual film fan. My Letterboxd aura is incredibly weak, I prefer to watch movies I’ve already seen and I’ve ruined a few dates by falling asleep ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Graeme Smith, Associate professor, Australian National University The Capitol building in the Pacific island nation of Palau. Erika Bisbocci The United States isn’t the only country with a big election on November 5. Palau, a tourism-dependent microstate in the north Pacific, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bartholomew Stanford, Lecturer in Political Science/Indigenous Politics (First Peoples), Griffith University Since the Voice to Parliament referendum last year, there has been a lack of leadership on Indigenous policy from the Australian government. With this absence, the states and territories now ...
The Auckland magazine held its first restaurant of the year event since 2022. At a church. With an open bar. Duncan Greive watched the show.‘Running a restaurant – sometimes it feels like you’re running a charity for rich people’Every so often a single comment can feel like it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Draper, Professor, and Executive Director: Institute for International Trade, and Jean Monnet Chair of Trade and Environment, University of Adelaide YULIYAPHOTO/Shutterstock Finally, Australia’s rock lobster industry will be able to export to China again, following a deal struck on the ...
OK, there were a couple of winners if you looked really hard. In a perfect echo of the psychic state of the nation, last night’s eagerly awaited poll by Verian for 1News, coming precisely a year since the last election, delivered collectively to the political actors of New Zealand the ...
“Instead of using taxpayer dollars to improve the lives of Māori, the government is giving corporate handouts straight into the pockets of big business. Subsidising PB Tech with Kiwis’ hard-earned money is the equivalent of throwing taxpayer dollars ...
“We’ve all seen this movie before. When commissioners stepped into Tauranga, the city carried on sliding into ruin. Replacing elected leaders with unaccountable bureaucrats isn’t some magic solution.” ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gertjan Verdickt, Lecturer, Business School, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau When it comes to investing and planning your financial future, are you more willing to trust a person or a computer? This isn’t a hypothetical question any more. Big banks ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government has announced a first step in what it says is a crackdown on excessive card surcharges and threatened a ban on surcharges for debit cards from early 2026. In the latest ...
While much has changed for the better, New Zealand risks falling behind as more jurisdictions adopt decriminalised frameworks that build in protection against discrimination, writes criminologist Lynzi Armstrong. It has been two decades since New Zealand decriminalised sex work. And while sex workers have workplace rights, they still worry about ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson and James A. RobinsonNobel Prize Outreach The 2024 Nobel Prize in Economics has been awarded to three US-based economists who examined the advantages ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Garnett, Professor of Conservation and Sustainable Livelihoods, Charles Darwin University Shuterstock First Peoples’ names for animals and plants undeniably enrich Australian culture. But to date, few names taken from a language of Australia’s First Peoples have been widely applied to ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a pensioner with a penchant for oysters explains how he gets by. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Male. Age: 77. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Retired secondary chemistry ...
A new paper published in the Journal of Political Economy: Microeconomics by University of Auckland researchers Dr Chanelle Duley and Professor Prasanna Gai offers insights into how policymakers can better support migrants and society as a whole. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Raffaele F Ciriello, Senior Lecturer in Business Information Systems, University of Sydney DALL-E via Shutterstock Artificial intelligence (AI) is getting personal. Chatbots are designed to imitate human interactions, and the rise of realistic voice chat is leading many users to form ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lynzi Armstrong, Senior Lecturer in Criminology, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington It has been two decades since New Zealand decriminalised sex work. And while sex workers have workplace rights, they still worry about the risks of discrimination in everyday ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chris Murphy, Visiting Fellow, Economics (modelling), Australian National University ChristieCooper/Shutterstock The independent inquiry into the government’s COVID response is due to report on October 25. As part of its investigation into the government’s economic responses, I briefed it on the findings ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Howard, Senior Lecturer, Discipline of English and Writing, University of Sydney Andre Breton A century ago, French writer André Breton published a manifesto that would go on to become one of the most influential artistic texts of the 20th century. ...
But, asks Stewart Sowman-Lund in this extract from The Bulletin, can Winston Peters win his cabinet colleagues over with his ‘future fund’? To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
It follows the navy saying they are committed to supporting the ship's removal, and the prime minister saying it's up to the insurers and the navy to work out. ...
In amongst all the verbal diarrhoea of many commentators on TPPA yesterday there were a couple of little gems which should be highlighted.
The first is that, whether a Labour led government stays in TPPA or not, the concerns this country will have with the agreement will be concerns other countries will also have. We shall not be alone in objecting to some of the more corporate-inspired invidious provisions – so there is a real possibility for renegotiation. And, perhaps, if ISDS gets excluded from TTIP, of doing the same with TTPA.
The second point, contained in a link, is more ominous. The agreement signed in New Zealand on the 4th may not be exactly the agreement ratified by the US Congress and Senate. Pressure will be applied by the US, as by far the strongest economy (!) for the other countries to fall into line. This has already happened with Peru and the drug extension from 5 to 8 years.
We desperately need a change of government to one which will be prepared to defend the interests of all New Zealanders, not just the 1% elite.
And you honestly think the other nations are merely going to kowtow to the US after the negotiations have concluded?
Knowing how the US behaves when its “allies” don’t ‘kowtow’…
+1
Yes, countries will kowtow.
Listen and learn.
Except they didn’t kowtow during the actual negotiations that went on for years. Why do you think they will now when they have less incentive to do so?
They didn’t kowtow?
You think NZ didn’t bend to Japan, Canada and the US?
Maybe or maybe not. However it is irrelevant in the context of renegotiation that you postulate. It won’t just be NZ that needs to kowtow but also Japan, Malaysia, Canada, Mexico, Peru, Chile, Australia, Singapore, Brunei and Vietnam. You can’t change the agreement unless ALL parties agree. Why is this difficult for you to grasp?
Incorrect.
Did you listen to the speech?
Have you read the text of the agreement? How to change it has been set out as well?
Have you?
I take that as a ‘No, I prefer to get my opinions supplied by people whose views broadly reflect my own’ then.
It is very easy to hear the pro TPP arguments. Open any newspaper and listen to any news programme.
It’s harder to hear the anti TPP argument.
Did you hear Lori Wallach’s speech?
How is it harder Paul?
You had no difficulty finding the link to Lori’s speech did you?
You had no difficulty accessing the comprehensive Herald report of the meeting she spoke at in Auckland?
Did you have any difficulty following the protests on Thursday, or coming to The Standard this morning?
Can you show me how it is in any way ‘difficult’ to access anti-TPPA arguments?
Most New Zealanders switch onto TV1, TV3, and read the Herald.
You know that though and are being disingenuous.
I am assuming you are a fanboy for the TPPA.
This clip explains the clear bias better than I can
Most New Zealanders switch onto TV1, TV3, and read the Herald.
You know that though and are being disingenuous.
Yes. JUST LIKE YOU DO PAUL. Does that mean YOU end up thinking in the way that TV1,TV3, and the Herald decide?
See this is the enormous flaw behind your obsession with the unfair Media control meme. It is the fallacy (or is it an arrogance), that YOU can exercise a critical faculty and determine the truth for yourself, but the majority of other people are incapable of doing so.
Lets call that the fallacy of mass stupidity.
Frankly it is conceited, condescending, and dis-empowering bullshit.
The reality is that just like YOU, ALL PEOPLE have a brain (whoa!), they have a worldview (Hey!), they have opinions, ethics, morals, beliefs, and convictions, and they have a critical faculty with which to assess the information they choose to receive.
And having done so – they know what they think. And what they think is just as fucking valid as what you or anyone else on this site with a delusion of superiority thinks.
It’s a great paradox with the far left. On the one hand you claim to be all about ‘The People’. But on the other hand you look down on them as being stupid schmucks….
Sheep, it’s easy to see that people can be duped: all you have to do is listen to the right wing parrot chorous, relentlessly repeating the same zombie lies.
“Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment. People choose to be poor. Everyone can be rich if they work hard.” Racism, sexism, bigotry, and most of Economics: they all come down to repetition of lies. Hence earlier references to Crosby Textor and propaganda that you were too suffused with bias to respond to.
If lying to people doesn’t work, why does the National Party do so much of it?
Name calling is not an argument.
It is, despite your rant, a fact that it is much easier to hear pro-TPP arguments than those against, despite the fact that most people are against the TPP.
Sheep, people don’t have similar access to both sides of the argument.
You know that.
If you don’t, start paying attention to the msm.
@ The lost sheep at 7 February 2016 at 1:22 pm:
Your fallacy is that when people are capable of critical thinking and sound judgement they put this into practice without exception – you are conflating possible with actual.
This is obviously not true and the best evidence for this is the fact that about 1,000,000 million people are eligible to vote but don’t actually vote.
There’s a big difference between fast and slow thinking (Kahneman) and our minds naturally prefer the fast one and this dominating way of thinking prompts instinctive emotional reactions such as yours, i.e. silly biased outbursts AKA name-calling.
Are you saying ISDS crawled onto the table by itself? The US took it up as a bargaining position by accident?
Gosman and the amazing magical thinking.
What is fundamentally different between the ISDS process proposed under the TPPA and the ones set out in our free trade deals with South Korea and China?
If you want to allege that there is no difference you’re going to have to do your own work. Then we can talk about IP and Pharmac.
The fundamental difference is that US corporations are included in the ISDS in the TPPA.
It’s the power imbalance.
Korea cannot shaft our traders and continue to trade with us – but we produce essentially different things – trade threatens neither. But the US is or wants to be a large agricultural exporter – and insists on destroying regulations against GE, Mad Cow Disease, and monopolistic corporate abuses.
The US patent ‘industry’ is also massively dysfunctional – but they will have access to stifle NZ innovation under the TPPA. If you’d done your homework, you’d know this – but you’re a lazy, credulous far-right shill, perfectly happy to see NZ lose money and jobs.
Aren’t we lucky that the Chinese have not been as litigious as US companies – then again – with our current govt bending over backwards to be kind they have not the need to be.
We could for instance mill logs before sending them overseas – you know its called “value added”. But that is against the FTA with China so 100’s of mill workers in NZ are now out of work while thousands in China become employed.
This of course is really looking after the interests of NZers. /sarc
Did you listen to the speech?
Key did – you can still see the brown stains on his tongue.
It would be ‘unthinkable’ to renege on the deal just because the yankers changed one or two iddybiddy things.
+1 Tony Veitch
Interesting to see you Tony V first on Open Mike on 5th and 7th. Getting onto the site while thinking clearly before the morass of the day? Is this the real you thinking?
This for real? We desperately need a change of government to one which will be prepared to defend the interests of all New Zealanders, not just the 1% elite.
And this in Open Mike on 5 February. A good point.
This was that the USA joined the TPPA negotiations on or around 2008, at the time when Key had just become leader of the National Party/Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Are we then just part of a giant neoliberalist conspiracy funded by the corporates of the United States, and aimed at total domination of the world by the wealthy elite?
Please don’t confuse me with the plonker who kicked his girlfriend down the stairs. I had my name long before he disgraced it!
everytime I read your name it reminds me of the other guy – no one imo, other than for the reason I’ve just said, cares what your name is – we care about what you write and say
Why don’t you have a pseudonym then, special for your blogging that identifies just you, which everyone can recognise wherever you comment. Something that refers to your own personal attributes in a forthright manner, or a catchphrase, or your favourite sport, something that’s unmistakeably you and won’t get confused with the plonker who now will be remembered for a generation. What you think sounds interesting, it’s good to have people who have a point of view that they produce background to argue, and sources to illustrate.
Must say, after reading and enjoying your comments for a while now – the only downside is that you are restoring a good reputation to that name you unfortunately share with that plonker!
I’m always interested in reading what you write Tony, and have got used to seeing the name appear in the comments here on TS.
Heh – I suppose you could remove confusion by adopting the handle “Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster)”
A welcome suggestion. Thank you, McFlock.
Looks like we need Winston and NZF to bring back some common sense back to NZ Politics?
Ok Winston fan here is some Peters gold from his speech at our anti TPPA rally in Paihia last Friday. This is alot cleaner footage wise, but misses some shots at Grosser and Hosking, the full interview (thanks Clare) is further down the page in a reply to Paul on Groser. Let me know what ya think?;
http://nzh.nu/XXYU0
Sorry Tautuhi looks like Granny NZH moVed on to the selfie stick Joyce was chewing on. Try this link or scroll down to the unedited version;
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=nzh%20live%20winston%20peters
Almost two decades of Socialism and a great proportion of the population is now in poverty and violent crime is rampant. But I suppose many here blame all this of the ‘Damn Yankees’.
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21690098-country-brink-social-explosion-only-negotiated-transition-can?fsrc=scn/fb/te/pe/ed/theendgameinvenezuela
Honduras
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/27/why-are-honduran-children-leaving/
Nothing to do with the plunging price of oil obviously.
Did you not read in that article where it specifically mentioned the fall in the price of oil. Venezuela squandered virtually ALL the windfall profits when the price was high and has nothing left. According to many here the increase in social spending previously should have set them in good stead. Instead they have a budget deficit of 20 % of GDP and massive poverty. Where are the long term benefits of the revolution?
Wikileaks took them and used some of your magical thinking to turn them into US diplomatic cables.
Not to mention increased literacy and reduced infant mortality.
How has that increased literacy benefited the economy? Infant mortality is likely going to get worse again.
“Plan Bolivar 2000 repaired thousands of schools, hospitals, clinics, homes, churches, and parks. Over two million people received medical treatment. Nearly a thousand inexpensive markets were opened, over two million children were vaccinated, and thousands of tons of trash were collected, just to name a few of the program’s results.’
‘Since oil is Venezuela’s principal source of income, its decline, combined with growing inequality in Venezuela, had a significant impact on the poverty rate.’ ‘
http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/213
And how has that benefited the Venezuelan economy and ultimately society long term considering the health sector is collapsing as it can’t import the drugs it needs?
The magical thinkers are in charge now. They’ll buy and sell the country among themselves until there’s a brighter future.
Perhaps consider taking a look at your own contribution before demanding others provide responses to your fetish regarding Venezuela
Human suffering excites so much, that you can’t control the urge to repeat the message on a regular basis
And that is the problem across the world. Everyone assumes that a nation needs an income when it really simply needs the government spending money into creation and getting the economy working.
A UBI and government ownership of necessary services such as food and education would prevent poverty and, in fact, develop the nation. No need for foreign income.
If the centre-right is in charge there is no doubt child mortality will increase. That’s what happens here, after all.
Are you seriously asking about the economic benefits of literacy? It even has non-economic benefits too! Quelle horreur!
It doesn’t seem to have made a difference to Venezuela. What are all these newly literate people doing considering unemployment is so high?
These children will be building the economy and communities they will be living in tomorrow. It will equip them for the more challenging times ahead, and ensure they have the basic skills to secure their own and their families’ futures.
Except they have no jobs and are stuck in lines trying to get the basics necessities of life that are in short supply.
Ah, so you’ve gone from arguing that literacy is irrelevant to economics, to asserting that it’s useless to people in food queues.
I applaud your magical thinking.
Meanwhile international capital markets and financial weapons of mass destruction are used to fuck over yet another country determined to exercise a foreign policy and economic policy independent of western empire.
For God’s sake. Gosman.
Right-wing-governed UK (including so-called Labour Govts of the era) squandered all the wealth of its North Sea on cheap imports. (Profit-gouging is not a dirty word, remember?)
Norway did not. Norway showed the way.
Venezuela is a naïve young learner – not even an advanced industrialised economy, yet you love to harp on about that.
Tell us where Norway has gone wrong, Gosman. Norway appears to have created a better economy and society while nicely ignoring the neo-liberal bullshit that you espouse.
Stop gassing about Venezuela – tell us where Norway went wrong, and why Thatcher etc were so right, and how wonderful things are in the UK, where your favoured policies are showing their fruits.
Gosman asked how the policies benefited Venezuela.
Reply cited reduced infant mortality and better education as results.
Gosman dismisses these as not being of benefit to the economy.
Fixation on the economy is typical of the neolib: If you can’t count it or the result hasn’t a dollar symbol infront of it, then ignore it.
Not to mention that a healthy and well educated population is of immense benefit to any economy.
Gosman is a cut above the average wingnut. Such a low bar, you see.
But it hasn’t been in Venezuela’s case. The economy is so bad that the gains in literacy and health are being eroded and even get worse than where they started from. What’s the point of educating a population for 10 or so years if you can’t afford to keep it up beyond that?
You have read the articles about oil’s underpinning of the economy?
Or are you just repeating yourself without any knowledge of the matter?
What’s the point of feeding a population for 10 or so years if you can’t afford to keep it up beyond that?
Therefore we should all live by the law of the jungle?
That’s inhuman
Indeed, according to Gosman, what’s the point of educating and feeding ordinary people when the jilted 0.01% elite are going to deliberately fuck everyone up?
Indeed, according to Gosman, what’s the point of educating and feeding ordinary people when the jilted 0.01% elite are just going to deliberately fuck everyone up until they get their own way again?
The only reason to improve an economy is to improve the lives of people.
On planet gosman, the only reason for people is to improve the economy.
It is an article from the Economist.
While I have no time for corruption (whether from governments of the left or right) I find it intriguing that some should think that the alleviation of poverty is “squandering” resources.
In which case why is Venezuelan poverty rates worse now than in 1998? What happened to all that money that was spent micky and why hasn’t the economy let alone society benefitted in the way you lefties think it should? I mean Venezuela has followed the sort of policies many of you advocate yet there has been no lasting good it seems.
‘Oil crash hurts Venezuela the most
Venezuela’s economy depends mostly on oil. That was great when a barrel of oil was worth $100 a barrel in 2013 and 2014. Now oil prices have fallen to as low as $28.36 — the lowest point in 12 years.’
http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/news/economy/venezuela-economy-meltdown/
‘At current prices, Venezuela will have to use more than 90 percent of its crude-export revenue to make debt payments, Barclays economist Alejandro Arreaza said in the report.’
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-21/as-crude-s-crash-punishes-venezuela-calls-for-opec-help-grow
’
Running on fumes: Venezuela ‘terrorized by oil price drop’
‘Amid lower oil prices, Venezuela is struggling to maintain the social spending that characterized the Hugo Chávez era. Crude accounts for 96 per cent of export revenues: a halving in the oil price over the past 14 months means revenues have slumped by about $36bn compared with the average of the previous two years, when the government raked in almost $79bn’
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c9c4b05c-0b81-11e5-994d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3zPy3KIAL
Are all countries that rely on oil for much of their revenue suffering the sort of problems Venezuela is undergoing? The answer to that is quite obviously not. Additionally why didn’t Venezuela use the oil windfall when the price was high to build up reserves to help prepare for times when the price was low? Other countries do this.
It did. Child mortality decreased. Literacy increased.
And they fought a fourth generation conflict against the world’s largest kleptocracy at the same time
Almost all are in fact – Kuwait and the other small oil states are politically tender as the population prepares to punish the political class for declining living standards. Saudi is an exception, it is continuing its development programs, which include free education and an enormous increase in university education for women. But even Saudi doesn’t have unlimited reserves – though it does have phosphate – and phosphate, unlike oil, cannot be partially replaced by substitutes like biofuel or electric vehicles.
Something to do with utterly mismanaging the proceeds of oil during the 17 years of high prices Socialism had the opportunity to make good use of?
Think they can still buy toilet paper in Norway.
make good use of
Increased literacy and reduced child mortality may seem useless to you, but that’s only because you want to come across as an ignorant callous ghoul.
No, wait…
How has the increased literacy amongst the wider population helped the economy?
an educated population is less likely to be hoodwinked by lying banksters and right wing corporate shills
I already answered that.
I don’t think he’s listening.
Or reading.
Multilevel marketing101..’He who asks the questions controls the conversation and the topic.’. Gets a bit tiresome though.
Just an idea, but with all that oil wealth, couldn’t they have increased literacy and created a sound and developing economy?
Most countries seem to believe the two go hand in hand. For the screamingly obvious reason that increased literacy is of limited value if there is insufficient infrastructure to allow the people to benefit from it.
They probably could have: plenty of other social democracies have succeeded. Mind you, perhaps they didn’t come under relentless attack from the largest kleptocracy in the world.
So while it’s easy for you to assert that social democracy doesn’t work because Venezuela, all you’re really saying is that you’re an authoritarian follower who’s taken sides.
Gosman and the sheeple who is lost have no idea what constitutes an economy other than to think it is somehow summed up in GDP, or toilet paper.
Ignorant and heartless twits who lost their humanity many moons ago.
Norway is a better example of how an oil rich democracy can invest in the future. They now have world leading social services and living standards.
Compare with Thatcher’s UK, who squandered the North Sea oil in a property bubble and an orgy of greed, that rewarded only the wealthy
(hat tip winston)
https://youtu.be/se_Q26Lf240?t=7m2s
+1
thatchers “tax cuts” for the rich, and war on unions has fucked up the UK to this very day
& how has NZs inequality/poverty tracked in the last 2 decades?
Over the last two decades it has been relatively stable. Why do you ask?
Because we need to take steps to return it to at least as low as it was in 1984: the last two decades have been wasted. Time to drag neo-liberalism behind the barn. Say nigh-nighs.
The ‘yankee’ Government has a long history of overthrowing and destroying socialist Governments and have already supported one military coup in Venezuela ….. http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-on-democracy
Since then they have used the Nixon/Kissenger method of “make the economy scream” against the people of Venezuela ……
A very successful removal of a ‘socialist’ Government which the u.s.a Govt helped in ( by supplying military aid and lists of names to be executed ) was Indonesia …..
“In 1965 the Indonesian government was overthrown by the military. Anybody opposed to the military dictatorship could be accused of being a communist: union members, landless farmers, intellectuals and ethnic Chinese…..
In less than a year and with the direct aid of western governments over one million ‘communists’ were murdered.
The army used paramilitaries and gangsters to carry out the killings.
These men have been in power – and have persecuted their opponents – ever since.”
Would you like Venezuela to be like Indonesia Gosman ????
Or do you have no concern for Indonesia ?
Is Indonesia better off than Venezuela in Gosmans world ???
For those who would like to learn more about Indonesias recent past and present I recommend the surreal and disturbing documentary ” The Act of Killing”. http://www.actofkilling.com/
“The films’ protagonists were part of a murderous frenzy in 1965 that lead to the killing of at least 1 million suspected “communists” and ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. The Act of Killing depicts old members of a death squad acting out their memories — fantasies even — of the murders and atrocities they committed nearly 50 years ago. If you are a reader of UN Dispatch or just generally care about human rights you need to see this documentary.
The Act of Killing raises profound questions about international human rights law, accountability, historical memory, and even the role of sadism in mass atrocity events.”
Compare this corporate propaganda of the TPP protest with John Campbell’s 2 hours live stream amongst the protesters.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11585760
Newshub and du Plessis Allen are not journalists. They are shills and for the 1% and big corporates.
John Campbell’s Live stream
Presumably Heather would have been really annoyed with the Springbok protesters also, and would rather they went home and sent strongly worded letters to Muldoon instead.
I would love to be able to ask Heather what specific reason she has for supporting TPPA. I bet she could only say the cliched lines like:
It is good for the economy of NZ.
It is like all the other Free Trade agreements etc etc
But put on the spot I bet she couldn’t do more than talk in very general terms.
She doesn’t appear to have a clue – apart from the usual me, me, me approach – waste of space.
Much like the opponents of the TPPA who speak of loss if sovereignty and the pernicious influence of US corporates.
Much like the opponents of the TPPA who speak of loss if sovereignty and the pernicious influence of US corporates.
Have you read this?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76114721/rod-oram-dark-clouds-on-the-horizon
From the economist.
Usettling.
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/400/1*Vh8ButOVjUWqy9vLAyFftA.png
Gosman what specifically do you support in the 6,000 pages of TPP?
FFS Gosman – this is Waitangi weekend commemorating the signing of a treaty between two people. Maori have now lived with the loss of sovereignty for 175 years. They know what it is. This deal drawn up by corporations for corporations (with the compliance of willing govt officials) and effectively administered by corporate lawyers, will have an even more widespread effect on our governance than anything we have ever envisaged to date.
Governments will be effectively hamstrung to do the bidding and will of corporations over and above the interests of the citizens.
Key is the most incompetent, uncaring and irresponsible Prime Minister this country has ever had the misfortune to suffer. He hands over his Prime Ministerial responsibilities to his minions, with not a turn of the hair, ending in constant corrupt practices within his office; and he offers not an ounce of apology to the people for whom he is responsible – the People of NZ. This is just another episode in the decline in Government and the handing over of care to outside interests.
The TPPA is another battle in the class war conducted by successive governments around the world since the early 80’s — rolling back all the progressive legislation enacted in the wake of WW2.
It’s a continuation of NatCorp™’s crimes against working people, the poor, and tangata whenua.
This so called “neo-liberal consensus” cannot stand.
It’ll be easier for her to buy a gun 😉
I imagine the remaining people at TV3 are completely desperate and will say anything for a hope of clinging to one of the last few jobs.
Key nearly always avoids anyone who disagrees with him. Dissenters are kept away. Unless he can use his advantages to humiliate them.
Exactly.
btw the outrage over the other countries may think about the dildo which has barely rated a mention, unlike the tugger incident, which was all over the international news is sheer hypocrisy.
But that’s the way they operate too. It’s not like anyone overseas cares that it’s the National Day. If they did care, they’d probably be more appalled that the PM couldn’t be arsed going to any official commemoration.
Maybe it’s all a lead up to making anzac the official day.
John Campbell is subtle and brilliant…and John Key declined an invitation to be interviewed… just as he declined open debate at Waitangi for all New Zealand to view ….and he declined open democratic debate in Parliament
John Campbell throws light into the darkness…(this is why jonkey’s friends got rid of him from TV3)
jonkey is gutless and undemocratic…he slithers around in secrecy like a Gollum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollum
Maybe we should keep a score of the time the gutless Key fails to front any open debate and discussion on the TPPA.
Checkpoint
Waitangi.
Groser’s prize for his sale of NZ sovereignty to the corporates.
30 pieces of silver.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11585317
Speaking of Groser, Winston Peters made an interesting comment about him during a speech on Friday opposed to the TPPA, reffering to the snake oil salesman’s appointment to the United States. Sounds like he has something coming out about this ‘job for the boys’. He also has a crack at Mike Hosking which gave me quite a laugh.
The thing that really impressed me the other day was rather than going to a major event with the other party leaders attended by Governor General also, Peters commits to coming along to a anti TPPA rally instead, which was pretty much a washout for a crowd being an outdoor event in pouring rain. However we free styled it in an arcade and got the message out before the cops shut us down. Cheers Winston your a bloody ledgend! 87,000 views of your NZH video sure is getting the message out!
Here is the unedited video of his whole speech;
+1 excellent oratory from Winston, pretty good stuff from David Clark also
Winston goes without saying, however Clark was a pleasant surprise he spoke very well better than Robertson did at the Auckland Town Hall rally, and he was pretty solid.
With Labour it still boils back to their horseshit lateness in coming out, and then getting bushwhacked by first Goff and then Shearer. They lost alot of creds to the public on their true position, and for me probably till this bloke Clark declared a resounding no to the TPPA under it’s current format. Well done chap!
+ 100%
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/wearenotrentacrowd?source=feed_text&story_id=819927578129452
Pacific Grim: How the controversial TPP signed away your digital rights
http://economyincrisis.org/content/pacific-grim-how-the-controversial-tpp-signed-away-your-digital-rights
Maybe send to Heather du Plessis Allen
According to a comment made by MIKE IN AUCKLAND over on TDB,
“John Key got booed at in Eden Park yesterday, the times they are a changing!”
Can anyone confirm this?
If true, this would be quite an ego hit for our little mannikin.
The booing was very clear on the tv1 news report. It was loud and obvious.
The intro to One News had footage of him being booed as he was walking out an exit from the field. It was a bit surprising to see them paint him in that negative way, I’m sure they have ignored these kind of things often in the past. The news story was a bit more positive and had him having selfies with people in the stand and interviewed a spectator that said Key should definitely be at the league rather than at the founding of a nation, blah blah.
He was booed on his way into the tunnel, going to meet and greet players, who when interviewed said such things as “he’s staunch” great guy, yadda, yadda accompanied with raised fist handshakes and bumping of shoulders. All very manly. Trevvy will be swooning at her man being all manly. Be still her beating heart. Oh, and lots of beaming selfie with rugged league players. So, all and all a positive time for Johnny enabled by Corin Dan and Gower. Nothing new from media.
Don’t know who Trevvy is? Please can you tell me without having to look through media reports? I try to keep up with the celeb scene.
Claire Trevett I think.
I assumed it was that great hanger-on to sportsmen Trevor Mallard.
“Trevvy will be swooning ” sounds just like him.
I’ve had that suspicion about Trevvy for a long time myself.
Yes. I do mean Claire Trevett.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-key-booed-by-section-of-the-crowd-at-nrl-nines-on-waitangi-day
http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1602/TPP_Final_Mandate_3_October_2015.pdf
Its like modern art, lots & lots of black squares.
Very transparent.
well thats useful(not) …and informative in its blankness. I see advice from MoH was provided, is it likely that text may be able to be sourced from a different direction?
No wonder Julian Assange was framed…Wikileaks was warning of this in 2013
http://www.cnet.com/au/news/wikileaks-publishes-draft-of-secretive-tpp-trade-pact/
Now supported by the United Nations
‘UN panel rules Julian Assange arbitrarily detained, entitled to liberty & compensation’
https://www.rt.com/news/331371-assange-arbitrarily-detained-un/
Thanks for that Choopky. An ongoing matter that we shouldn’t lose sight of. And perhaps we won’t lose sight of Julian himself eh!
In anticipation of the next part of the TPPA debate (what happens if we leave?), this comment in response to Brian Easton saying we have little choice but to join the TPP because otherwise we will lose advantage in other trade deals and foreign affairs matters,
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/can-we-afford-not-to-adopt-the-tppa
hear, hear.
Im more inclined to the comment below that one Weka
That’s interesting Weka. Brian Easton, as his article states, has been interested in us being an ethical and principled democracy for yonks. His views represent a warning to us, and presents the historic reasons for his concern. Good to get that wider background to set the TPPA in context – seems part of a linear progression. Do we draw a line in the sand before we succumb to it, what will be the reaction if we do, what will be the result if we don’t.
This from the link to Brian Easton in pundit in Weka’s comment. There is so much TPPA discussion, anxious, heated, emotional. This is good reading to get a cool understanding. Naturally Wayne Mapp likes it.
Thoseoutside often have little understanding of the complexity of the [international political] network. For instance a consequence of the legislation which made New Zealand nuclear-free and led to our ejection from ANZUS changed the balance in our relations with Australia and the US. Our practice had been to play one off against the other. When the US withdrew in a huff, we found ourselves much more dependent upon Australia; in one way our independence was reduced by being nuclear-free….
These complex interdependences also apply to trade negotiations….
The logic in this column is that we now do not have much choice about the TPPA. The government is trapped into agreeing to it because rejecting it has implications for other trade deals and our wider international relations. That is probably what our MFAT officials are advising, although no doubt there are many diverse views in there,…
Everyone will be watching the US, where the passage of the measures is likely to be most contentious. Many of the predictions of what will happen reflect the soothsayers’ view of the TPPA rather than a solid political assessment. There is considerable division among those who are informed. Some think the US Congress will agree to the deal this year because it is so crucial to US economic hegemony, particularly relations with Japan and the reducing of China’s economic leadership. Others think the Congress will not bear to give Obama a win and will hold it over to next year. Another view is that there are so many fish-hooks in the deal that Congress will not be able to get an agreement.
Until each of the partners has demonstrated they can implement the agreement, its provisions do not come into effect. When they have all done this the partners ratify the treaty. (Most required legislation will not come into effect until ratification.)
Easton raises export subsidies as likely to expand without agreements against them.
This enables excessive production with an attempt to gain export primacy by under-cutting unsubsidised nations production in that sector.
He says that signing seems to be a necessary strategic move now because of our interwoven relationships, while the ratification of all is necessary before it is fully implemented, which would be preferable to us withdrawing from the treaty.
Sorry, too hard to tell which are your words and which are quotes. Can you please use some formatting next time?
Yes I see. I tried starting with a bold and ending with bold, it was a long one and I didn’t want to put it all in italics and I thought blockquote would make it too long.
Is there another sort of formatting I could do easily?
Perhaps I could use another font for a long quote – there is probably an option which I just haven’t found yet. Answering my own query, that is what I will try.
This article by Rod Oram is worthy of a post in its own right.
In it, he takes apart many of the points made by the TPP cheerleaders.
Claim #1 It is a Free Trade Agreement.
No, it isn’t. Too many tariffs and other barriers remain for it to deserve the accolade. Rather, it is a “managed trade” pact, argues Martin Sandbu, one of the best analysts at the Financial Times of London, in this article bit.ly/FTonTPPA.
Claim #2 ‘It will make us wealthy.’
No, it won’t. By 2030 it could lift our GDP by 0.9 per cent. With TPPA, we’d hit that target by January 1, 2030. Without TPPA we’d hit the target three months later.
Moreover, the government’s forecast of 0.9 per cent relies on heroic assumptions about easing non-tariff barriers. Analysis of this is coming thick and fast. Here’s a recent example from Tufts University in the US, bit.ly/TuftsTPPA and this from the Petersen Institute, the most respected, most apolitical of Washington trade think tanks, bit.ly/PetersenTPPA.
Claim #3 ‘The Investor State Dispute Settlement process has been around for years in other trade agreements, so there’s nothing to worry about. ‘
Yet the EU halted its FTA talks with the US because it said ISDS was a “very toxic issue.” It came back to the table with a bold proposal for a proper international judicial system for settling disputes.
We are about to start negotiating an FTA with the EU. Logically it will make the same judicial proposal to us. We should eagerly embrace it and actively push for the TPPA to follow suit.
He finishes his magnificent article as follows…..
‘ our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.
Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand’s reputation as an honest broker in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we achieve far more than a country our size should.
TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. ‘
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/rod-oram-tppa-honesty-pays
Trust Rod Oram’s opinion far more than I trust Key’s, and glad that Rod is prepared to stick his head above the parapet, a good man, like one or two others.
I admire their courage.
Yes someone tell Labour so they can get some backbone around the TPP.
TPPA ain’t a Free Trade Agreement – False Advertising by the National Party – Telling lies again.
Martin Sandbu, one of the best analysts at the Financial Times of London argues it is a “managed trade” pact,
Yeah managed by Corporations!
Or as others have said ‘ a forced trade’ agreement’.
even worse …it is a managed ‘trading bloc”
Anyone else notice on last night’s news bulletins (Saturday Waitangi Day), the booing towards the PM at the league game?
Hee hee, and here was FJK thinking he was always going to remain the “most loved leader of all time in NZ”!
Seems the gutless wonder might just be falling foul of his once “adoring” public, as they finally wake up to the cheating, lying, deceptive traitor he really is!
Good 🙂 Long may this positive trend continue.
Links
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-key-booed-by-section-of-the-crowd-at-nrl-nines-on-waitangi-day?autoPlay=4741901469001
Prime Minister booed, cheered during Auckland Nines visit
Notice he was too scared to go out in public again.
Read more: http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/key-booed-cheered-at-auckland-nines-2016020615#ixzz3zRBni9eN
Wow.
Make no mistakes the Nats are reeling, I seen plenty of them up close and talked to a number of their Ministers, as they had a grace pass from Waitangi. While they were all trying to hold a brave confident business as usual manner about themselves. I can tell you they were rocked with the Auckland demolition job on their TPPA signing. They were wandering around the Bay of Islands like stunned mullets. From generally viewed as the supreme command to dirty sellout rats over night.
I enjoyed mocking a few of them, Parata a beauty at a restaurant where I was johnny on the spot after some media hack asked if she had been getting grief about things. She piped up not yet. I gave her a bit of a polite serve which wiped her cat smile off her face lol.
I gave her a bit of a polite serve
please elaborate
“I see John is a no show tomorrow after half the country were on the streets of Auckland eariler today…looks like the teflon is coming off…being ordered out of Waitangi tomorrow must be a blow for you.” she said “I will be there don’t you worry.” after my mate and myself burst into laughter, my reply was “yeah sure you will be keep telling yourself that.” With that she headed off but did appear to have lost the spring in her step, and glared back at me like I will remember you, or I have seen you around?
We laughed some more and then I gave what looked like Maori-Tory TV hacks she was with a serve which I can not repeat.
Canada stops sharing Five Eyes data
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/295933/canada-stops-sharing-five-eyes-data
quick, sue them.
/sarc
Can someone please take my comments out of moderation? thanks.
I was interested in the discrepancy between two news items yesterday. The letter from Nga puhi to the PM clearly attempted to gag him if he attended a powhiri at the Te Ti marae. It also claimed that it applied to all political parties.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/297837989/Waitangi-Letter
Then we had this report from RNZ
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/295819/joyce-defends-tpp-negotiation-methods
Quoting from this we see that it says
“Labour leader Andrew Little did give a political speech on the marae today – despite the Prime Minister being told he was not allowed to do so. Mr Little, who spoke of the importance of sovereignty, said the marae trustees placed no restrictions on what he could talk about during the powhiri.”
There appear to be only 2 ways to interpret these two items.
Option 1. Ngapuhi lied in their letter to the PM. The gagging applied only to John Key and most definitely did not apply to Andrew Little. I can see why they would want this as a description of the TPPA and its effects by Key, in his clear and reasonable manner would show up Little’s buffoonery and waffle as being the words of a fool.
Option 2. Little is lying, or simply totally ignoring the protocol requested by his hosts.
He must have known about the letter to the PM and ignored it. Even Andrew couldn’t be so out of touch as to not have seen it. Alternatively he was provided with his own advice and ignored that.
If you think option 1 is correct do you think that Ngapuhi are duplicitous and that the Government should ignore their existence at future Waitangi ceremonies, at least until they provide John Key with a public apology?
If you think option 2 is the correct one can we expect some comment from the commenter on “PM should get over Waitangi” who said
“Hardly. It’s just that I was brought up to not go into someone else’s house and demand that they behave the way I want them to, especially if I’ve been invited in.
I’m sure that when people get invited to do things at parliament that there are processes that have to be adhered to. Key is entitled to stay away, but as PM of NZ he’s not entitled to be an arse. Not that that usually stops him”
Is Andrew going to be called an ignorant, uncouth boor and an arse?
The letter explains the kawa and it is up to those who would speak to know and follow that kawa if they want to respect their hosts. This can also change and be adjusted as tangata whenua determine. There is no big story around this alwyn. Key didn’t go as we know, he was a no show, all blow, needs to grow, needs to show he ain’t just the big no in nobody eh yo.
Little did what he did – has there been a call from tangata whenua alwyn asking for recompense, has this caused a real media storm??? NO it is just your little attempt to cause trouble and stir – you are so small alwyn.
“do you think that Ngapuhi are duplicitous and that the Government should ignore their existence at future Waitangi ceremonies”
LOL – you really are so ignorant alwyn – you have zero idea of what you are talking about – you are a balloon with a hole – softly sagging to nothingness
nice bit of poetry marty.
This quote seems appropriate for you Marty.
“Marty Mars is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing”
From what little sense I can get out of your remark you seem to think that Ngapuhi lied to the PM and that they intended to allow their mates from the Labour Party to talk politics at the powhiri.
what have you been smoking though?
another school homework site eh alwyn – didn’t you get embarrassed enough last time???
seem, intended and so on – this is all your petty stuff alwyn – instead of dealing with big issues of national importance you prefer to try and pin flies to another’s jacket – just don’t have anything worth saying, do you alwyn.
“this is all your petty stuff alwyn – instead of dealing with big issues”
Well yes I would have to agree that replying to your rubbish is dealing with petty stuff. I was just trying to make you feel that someone read what you had written, no matter how stupid you were.
Would it make you feel better if I ignored you in future and didn’t even bother reading what you say?. God knows, reading your contributions is certainly time wasted.
sounds like you are talking to yourself there alwyn – bit sad really
It’s almost as if the Bard wrote this to be aimed at you, Alwyn:
Henry IV pt 1.
hehehe I love that speech. Falstaff is one of my fav characters.
but lets finish it
😉
I really like the way Shakespeare used the comic characters to make Henry V such a kick to the ‘nads for the audience. I’ve never been particularly big on the comedies, but played Pistol in Henry V a few years back.
🙂 yes the Bard really knew how to deliver a good literal boot where it was needed.
The thespian in our family is my daughter (a grad of Toi Whakaari and Shakespeare and Co. in Lennox MA.)
Henry IV pt 1 was the first Shakespearian play I read – introduced at school – and I went immediately out and bought my own copy. I’m too lanky to play Falstaff but that is one part I would love to play.
If you’re looking for a figure of comic incompetence to represent Alwyn you can’t go past Dogberry in Much Ado About Nothing.
Marry, sir, they have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied a lady;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves.
lol nice
I love this place sometimes.
I know this is getting close to the line with the rules, but did alwyn get thrashed today or what?
I daren’t comment 🙂
I always thought Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war from Julius Caesar was completely badass
lolz, is that you having a go at me alwyn? Quoting out of context again 🙄
3. Little understands how things work on the marae far better than you or Key or the MSM. Marty has said how it works. If after that you still don’t understand what happened yesterday I can’t explain it to you. I’ll give you a hint though, stop trying to understand it within a Pākehā framework.
Meanwhile, I thought this was interesting,
Greens welcomed ahead of Labour
Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said she was happy to abide by the no-politics rule of Te Tii Marae at Waitangi as her party were welcomed onto the grounds ahead of Labour today.
The Opposition parties were to be welcomed on at the same time, but instead the Greens were taken on for a separate powhiri, leaving Labour leader Andrew Little and his MPs standing in the rain for an hour.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/372113/turei-ill-abide-waitangi-rule
“lolz, is that you having a go at me alwyn?”
Of course I was quoting you. I wouldn’t say it was having a go though.
I didn’t want to identify you publicly though in case you are, as you should be, embarrassed by what you said on Friday.
“Quoting out of context again”
Not at all. That was your entire comment. The only editing I did was to remove a superfluous blank line. You should see that what you said is completely relevant to what I was talking about and that you should either comment on Little’s behaviour or withdraw your remarks about Key.
Obtaining consistency from the left is always difficult of course.
As for your comment about the Green Party. Is Hone trying to wangle a high place on the Green Party list at the next election? That would probably cause Ngapuhi to suck up to her. Pretty foolish if the Green Party did such a thing of course but it wouldn’t be beyond them.
If you want to quote in context put up a link, it’s not rocket science. As for the rest I can’t be bothered trying to figure what twisted agenda you have today, got better things to do.
Alwyn, you waste of space, you haven’t murdered your king and your best friend to keep your wife sweet only to have her top herself. So yes, completely out of context.
“The Opposition parties were to be welcomed on at the same time, but instead the Greens were taken on for a separate powhiri, leaving Labour leader Andrew Little and his MPs standing in the rain for an hour.”
Yes and as I stood there, then watched from afar I could not help thinking maybe Little should call both Goff and Shearer and ask them if it is raining where they currently are?
If so, order them to go stand out in the rain till told otherwise, or if it was not raining to go stand under a cold shower till told otherwise.
But really there was a bit of silliness going on by a few players up there including Labour locals.
Wrong people. He should be abusing Matt McCarten for letting him go anywhere near the place.
Matt, if anyone, should have known that it would only result in Little looking, shall we say, shrunken.
After all Matt will know these people very well.
I was there Alwyn – Little did not look shrunken at all, he gave a good speech on Ti Tii Marae and he had a great response from all those present. The Greens went on with the Maori Womens Welfare League – it would have been a bit too much to have us, Labour, in there as well.
As it happened, it was a real tight squeeze for all of Labour and supporters to get into the marae. And because of the weather there was no outside mike, and canvas canopy as has been available on other years for all the extra people to listen to the proceedings outside. Hey – and a bit of rain never hurt anyone.
As for what politicians could say, as Andrew Little pointed out later, if John Key had fronted up and said here I am, and what can I speak about, he would have been okay. But he was too disturbed by the massive outcry against TPPA to do that.
Andrew’s speech was along the lines of “everything” is political, the Treaty of Waitangi itself was political, so anything he could say would have political overtones but the marae was a place for discussion, debate, and agreement, and that was what he was there for. (This is very much just a basic summary of what he said, not taken from any notes, just memory).
Looks like FJK and his band of PR polished nactoids have given up on Northland and handed it over to NZ First and Labour
Not enough photo ops for them, looks like plan B (the league game) has backfired too.
FJK’s reliance on selfies, jokes, and smart remarks doesn’t wash when the bullshit is exposed so clearly as it was on 4 Feb (the TPPA day of shame)
I notice Stuff is pushing Seymour – perhaps the VRWC is polishing a fresh turd to be ready in case Key, you know, inadvertantly trips and hangs himself in the shower or something.
[lprent: I ignore ‘subtle’. You have been warned before. Banned 1 week. ]
#FlushTPPA but sometimes they keep floating back to the surface
My understanding from one report (sorry, can’t remember where) is that both parties were meant to go on together, but the bus driver who was supposed to pick up the some of of the Labour MPs didn’t turn up making them late. The decision was then made to welcome the Green Party first. Nothing significant in it – just a mix up with transport.
thanks Karen.
Perhaps John Key should have confined himself to talking about sovereignty (which is after all what Waitangi day is about) rather than whining via letters and staffers that he wanted to attack the opposition to the TPPA.
FFS alwyn, use your brain once in a while.
“Key should have confined himself to talking about sovereignty”
The major sovereignty issue being talked about at the moment is the effect of the TPPA. The major objection to the TPPA is claims that it abridges our sovereignty.
Discussing sovereignty without talking about the TPPA would make about as much sense as talking about the campaign for the Democratic nomination for President this year without ever saying the name Bernie Sanders. It is totally impossible to do so and still make any sense.
FFS lprent, use your brain once in a while.
So if John Key’s minders weren’t such arrogant arseholes and had specified that was the ‘politics’ he wanted to talk about…
But no – those dildos wanted to make a good headline so they deliberately muffed it by asking for something that they knew they would get the appropriate response to. Perhaps you could suggest why they did that?
What was it that they are supposed to have done? You say
“they deliberately muffed it by asking for something that they knew they would get the appropriate response to.”
Do you have some reference to this. A link would be nice.
All I have seen is various Ngapuhi leaders saying come/don’t come/come/don’t come. Key then said that if he couldn’t speak he wouldn’t go.
I note the limitation on talking politics doesn’t seem to have applied to Labour. Perhaps you can suggest why??
Even Hone, at least at one point seems to think Ngapuhi have stuffed up
“”It’s a national marae and Ngapuhi are the guardians of it. What they should have done is asked other leaders from other areas for their opinion, listened to them and then decided. They didn’t have to take a vote.”
“They handled the whole thing really badly,” he said.
Can you really blame the PM wanting to know what they were up to when we had reports like
“Following the vote there were mixed messages from leaders at the marae over whether Key would be invited or not.
Some media reported that Key had been blocked from the marae while others were told by leaders that he was welcome”.
Quotes from
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/76480259/john-key-may-not-attend-waitangi-day-unless-ngapuhi-extend-official-invite
More John Key hypocrisy. He slated the sex toy throwing incident as a bad showing for NZ as it went viral around the world. His point was that it reflected badly on our National Day.
The same National Day where he refused to front up as PM.
The same Prime Ministerwho denigrated his high office by having his hair-pulling antics go viral around the world. The same Prime Minister who joked about anal rape in prisons. The same PM who now is booed in public by ordinary Kiwi voters.
I would like to make a comment as a someone who has lurked on the Standard for a while and for several reasons has only made a few posts.
I come to the Standard for some encouragement in what I feel are dark times, to learn something about the issues we are facing as a country and in our communities, and to remind me that I am not the only person in New Zealand who thinks the way I do.
To have discussions polluted by muppets whose sole reason for posting seems to be to derail or divert is incredibly frustrating. There are whole threads I now skim through as it seems to me far too much energy is being expended by people whose opinion I respect (mostly) debating with trolls.
Whole discussions just get bogged down which I suspect is their whole purpose.
I admire the perseverance of those who bother to debate with them as it may be a bit harder now that someone since the New Year seems to have pushed the “Reasoned Debate” button.
For me the Standard has been a beacon but it has dimmed a bit recently and maybe that is exactly what someone wants.
+100
I would ban them.
If we ban too often it involves more work for moderators. I know from long experience that causes an ever escalating pressure on moderator time. So there is always a balance required between the amount of effort required to moderate and the constaining of debate.
The most effective way to ban is to give very long bans because then we don’t have to keep banning people as often. In particular using a fast exponential scale for timespans and a low toleration for fools. That massively reduces the workload. But does cause other issues.
It causes muttering about moderators who do this by people (and other moderators) saying that there is too much banning. Especially as most have different ideas about what piss-poor behaviour is.
In particular the more partisan who seem to think that piss-poor behaviour by lefties should be treated differently to piss-poor behaviour by the right.
Personally I don’t care that much what political affiliations or views someone has, because I see quite a lot of piss-poor behaviour from all shades of the political spectrum. I’m mainly concerned with their behaviour on this site and if it affects the intent of what the site is designed for – to discuss topics of interest to the labour movement and to have robust debate.
Of course since many of the right come here to purely to disrupt either directly or with the subtlety (that I simply gaze straight through), they collect much of the moderation.
Incidentally my usual response to respectful criticism about moderation (if I don’t ban the person for trying to tell us what to do) is to simply curtail my banning – equally. I simply raise my personal threshold for bans and reduce the time span I give them for. Then I get conversations like this…
The real solution as was pointed out is for commenters to simply not to respond. Most of the unthinking trolls will then proceed to fall into astroturfing the site with whatever their latest line is trying to get a response – and suffer the inevitable result.
But since I’m currently on hold for my next overseas trip, I’ll have a look around again for a tech solution.
Personally, I quite like the comment the Huffington Post puts at the bottom of every article about Trump.
“Editor’s note: Donald Trump is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist, birther and bully who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.”
Maybe it’s easily feasible to automatically attach some sort of disclaimer to the start of regular offender’s comments?
Do they note that Clinton is a serial warmonger, has lied over and over again on what happened in Benghazi and her email records all around that time, that her hubby Bill signed NAFTA which helped destroy the American blue collar class, and best of all is on the take from the billionaire bankster fraternity, charging a quarter million dollars per speaking engagement?
Not yet. I have hopes they’ll get around to it.
Smooth mate 🙂
Wouldn’t be hard to do technically. The only real issue would be that I’d have to either set it for the identity for every comment that they have done over time, or somehow plug it into the comment-meta while posting a comment.
The reason for the latter is that we forgive after a ban until there is a need to ban again. Then previous convictions count on their sentence.
Is it technically easy (…) to build in a capability feature for the TS readers to collapse (sub-)threads?
Yes – the css attribute of display:none would make them easily invisible. I’d just have to add a extra div to allow hide/open. Obviously these are personal preferences and there are some limits to what could be done because they’d need to be done at client side using javsacript and cookies.
The only real issues with it is remembering which ones you have dropped and that they will have to either close collapsed comments or open non-collapsed comments at the user side, that it will make pages slower to open, and some screen real estate would have to be sacrificed for activating ‘buttons’.
This site effectively doesn’t run logins, and these days pages offered to non-logged users are effectively all the same. This minimizes the amount of processing the server has to do and strongly decreases the useful information about commenters that court orders could extract.
So any information stored on which comment threads are dropped has to be available on client side via cookies and acted upon via javascript executed on the client browser. Cookies are stored per client browser. So would the collapses. If you read the pages in both safari and chrome, then they would have different collapses.
When a page is opened, it’d open with either all comments visible or no comments visible. Either has issues that would need working around.
In the latter case , the javascript would locate the collapsed comments for the current page out of cookies. It would walk the invisible comments seeing if the comment should be opened, and open it. It would then have to find the comment you were last reading or wrote and jump to it. This last step is tricky to do compared to the existing system.
In the former case, the page would be set to the correct comment, and then the javascript would have to walk to collapse comments. The issue here is that you are unlikely to view at the last comment you were reading quite as well if there are collapses further up the page. The page could be jumping around quite a lot as you start reading it.
Neither issue is insoluble.
And there could be issues with the Replies tab. If someone relies to you and you click it there, then you won’d see the comment.
That is the only other gotcha I can see on a second think…
O.k. thanks I thought it was worth asking as thread collapsing is not uncommon on other sites but I have no idea of the (technical) implications, obviously.
On a different note, I still experience issues with loading of TS pages. For example, OM 07/02/2016 and OM 08/02/2016 did not load this morning (empty page) and OM 08/02/2016 still doesn’t!?
I notice something odd, that my old comments window comes back when I am doing a new one, though the old one is shown on the list at right and appears in the post.
This morning I ended up typing my second one in the comment window of my first one which had been ‘published’. So that was confusing – I refreshed with F5 to clear it and it was still there I think. Bit confused now.
Anyway everything got through after I juggled with them a bit.
That is client side caching – the server has no idea what is in the textarea used for comments. Probably the clear in the javascript that saves the comment wasn’t getting called or wasn’t activating correctly.
I’ll have a look over lunch to check that it isn’t a general problem. But it is most likely that your browser was having a bit of a brain fade. Usually restarting the browser (or logging out or restarting the system if the browser has a ‘fast start’) will fix it.
“The real solution as was pointed out is for commenters to simply not to respond.”
Any chance you could hire some cat herders? 😉 Commenters not responding to trolls only works if most or all refrain. That’s not going to happen here, and so the threads often get filled with troll call and response even if a whole bunch of people are ignoring them. Those conversations become the dominant ones because some people just walk away and others get drawn to where the energy and entertainment is.
There are lots of people commenting on ts whose otherwise good comments get ignored. One thing that those of us* sick of the troll fests could do is start talking to each other. Make those conversations the ones that are interesting. To that end, and speaking of tech, I’ve come round to the idea of a like button or similar. Maybe trial it anyway, to see if people knowing that their comments are valued even if not getting much response intially might increase responses and generate other kinds of conversations. All the usual caveats about use and abuse of such tech by commenters (and trolls).
*I have a foot in both camps, mainly because I love a good argument so the more interesting troll threads are enticing. Arguing with people who think differently than me also helps me clarify my thinking, although it would be nice to argue more with differently thinking lefties than righties or trolls (of any stripe).
Not cats – goats. Cats always scatter.
Whereas goats are far far more infuriating. Most of the time they act like herd animals. But in every drive there will always be one or two who decide to be contrary and to drag part of the herd with them. After they get experienced, even good farm doags don’t like tangling with a contrarian goat…
The only thing that that goats respect is electric fences. A good hard unexpected shock tends to modify their behaviour.
I do have a like button plugin that I was prototyping and extending. I’ll have another look at where I got to with it.
and the buggers have a sixth sense when the fence is off
Yep.
Goats! I’ll have to remember that 😈
And they start young…
arrrgh, not the dreaded baby goat pictures.
weka
+1
+100
I would ban them.
Sorry can’t agree with you there Paul. I would miss the comedy and daily fun when the likes of Gosman comes on ranting about the brain dead fuckwits from the right favorite cot case called Venezuela, or Greece. What would we do if we did not have our daily dose of seeing how their shit is taken down time after time after time. Some of the replies these prats get are very smart and I am sure we can all survive the crap they come out with.
Yeah – I get sick of the trolls, too, Grey Area. I totally agree with you – if only posters wouldn’t respond to them maybe the trolls would give up !! and pigs might fly ……
Do we make a pledge?
Just ignore the trolls they are suffering from SPS Sick Parrot Syndrome by engaging you give them oxygen.
But the trolls keep pushing buttons on some of our most concerned, informed and sincere commenters. Then there are the argumentative ones that can’t keep their hands off the keyboards. I have suggested a number limit that would control the output and as we rarely have very long and informed discussions we could manage that. It could be that if there was a bypass key available for a moderator to use for one of those great Socratic? discussions that would be good. But it could involve quite a lot of fiddling and coding for not much. But limits on contributions for a certain time perhaps could be done, then people would think twice about using up their ‘budget’ on trols and the trols would have to limit their puerile input.
Ban them or put them into moderation far quicker.
Personally, I try really hard not to give in to the temptation to respond to the usual suspects. But occasionally one puts up a plausible looking piece of bullshit, that if left unchallenged might end up looking like accepted truth to silent lurkers.
But I can certainly do without scrolling past the endless handbag fights to find the substantive discussions.
“But occasionally one puts up a plausible looking piece of bullshit, that if left unchallenged might end up looking like accepted truth to silent lurkers.”
That’s the dilemma and is the main argument of the troll fighters (except they don’t use the word ‘occasionally’).
Also, most of us have different ideas about what a troll is.
Handbag fights – funny. There is always a Monty Python skit for every occasion and I am sure that one must be in your mind.
you realise of course that by coming here and engaging, the trolls have a chance at rehabilitation? compared to some of the bottom dwellers at KB most of our rwnj friends are positively enlightened…
i think it’s always worthwhile hearing the other side of a political debate, at least our righties show more intelligence than Hosking and Henry
“i think it’s always worthwhile hearing the other side of a political debate, at least our righties show more intelligence than Hosking and Henry”
Well said However remember some of them do, not all of them.
well yes some of them are hopeless and just dump and run (redelusion)
To be fair ropota your contributions are of 8th grade standard and a stuck record thus only deserve a short response
Troll irony. Too early in the morning for that.
8th grade red?
“you realise of course that by coming here and engaging, the trolls have a chance at rehabilitation?”
and then there are the astroturfers…
yah those are hard to spot but they seem to cluster around significant events and gang up to defend/justify the FJK government’s latest crime
I think people who constantly engage with trolls and their ilk are the ones who need rehabilitation.
Please don’t become a killjoy; a dirty slippery troll-wrestle is one of the few guilty pleasures I can still occasionally indulge in 😉
Never understood the lure of mud wrestling myself. But it takes all kinds!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76574076/trading-places-running-nz-like-an-investment-fund
journalism not dead yet
pat
Thanks for the heads up on the business on stuff! Straight to the point. Good stuff.
NOTE this from the stuff link from pat above –
somewhat like Greece…..there was an interesting BBC piece on RNZ today….the parallels with TTPA were striking….think this is the piece (its not available on RNZ at mo)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06wj1bt
Good read (22). Thanks for posting it Pat.
good read but disturbing subject matter….and I live in hope it’s followed up and expanded on
iran to charge its oil in euros? dumps the us $ ?
interesting times.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-oil-iran-exclusive-idUKKCN0VE1P9
quote: Switching oil sales to euros makes sense as Europe is now one of Iran’s biggest trading partners.
“Many European companies are rushing to Iran for business opportunities, so it makes sense to have revenue in euros,” said Robin Mills, chief executive of Dubai-based Qamar Energy.
Iran has pushed for years to have the euro replace the dollar as the currency for international oil trade. In 2007, Tehran failed to persuade OPEC members to switch away from the dollar, which its then President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called a “worthless piece of paper”.
The NIOC source said Iran’s central bank instituted a policy while the country was under sanctions over its disputed nuclear programme to carry out foreign trade in euros.
“Iran shifted to the euro and cancelled trade in dollars because of political reasons,” the source said.
makes sense when you are involved in a de facto currency war
In mid Jan, the US slapped a new range of sanctions on Iran less than 24 hours after Iran had promptly released a group of US naval personnel who had been caught intruding in Iranian territorial waters.
Basically Iran made a move to strengthen new ties with the US, and the US returned the gesture with the middle finger.
So I’m not surprised at this move at all.
This. While the issues aren’t exactly the same as the US, in NZ this is a little-discussed aspect of the housing crises. Banks and councils are putting pressure on people to build houses much bigger than they need, and people too often are building an investment rather than a home.
With handy diagram,
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153032665153328
This is all driven by private sector developers targetting projects towards the top 1%/top 5%, with too easy finance from the banking sector.