Open mike 07/03/2012

64 comments on “Open mike 07/03/2012 ”

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1. Pete George 1

   7 March 2012 at 7:24 am

   Logan Edgar disses a few brain cell abusers: Otago not for idiots – OUSA president

   It’s about promoting that if you act like an idiot, cause damage and make us all look bad, then this isn’t really your place in the world.

   But praises most scarfies.

   There is a real culture change happening here at Otago. Year on year, student offences have decreased. Students are increasingly dobbing in fellow students for what they themselves are beginning to view as unacceptable behaviour.

   Your average scarfie is a law-abiding soul. It turns out that, nationally, the Southern Police District, which includes Dunedin, Otago Rural and Southland, has one of the lowest crime rates in our beloved Aotearoa. Better yet, of the three areas, Dunedin has the lowest total crime per head of population. And the lowest rate of public-order offences.

   If you think about the context of 20,000 young people in one place, that tells one hell of a story about how law abiding we basically are.

   So while a few idiots make the headlines most of what happens is good here – and can still be fun.
   • Lanthanide 1.1

     7 March 2012 at 9:37 am

     Semi-related, on Morning Report this morning they were talking about Otago’s student union and how they got around the ridiculous legislation passed last year.

     The university contracts out student services to the students association. Students are charged a fee for these services by the university. Membership of the students association is completely free and is now moved to an “opt-out” model.

     UCSA in Canterbury has worked this way for decades at least, so not sure why the other unions didn’t see this as a possible way around the legislation.
     • McFlock 1.1.1

       7 March 2012 at 12:14 pm

       on the flipside, I’m sure the OUSA president’s new call for harsher penalties to be faced by students who misbehave off campus – as opposed to OUSA’s opposition to the code of conduct since its inception – is in no way related to the fact that OUSA now relies on university goodwill for much of its funding. Pure coincidence.
       • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1

         7 March 2012 at 12:29 pm

         And fair enough too, that’s a good outcome.
         • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1

           7 March 2012 at 12:41 pm

           Nah (and I’m not known for my tolerance towards drunken yoooothes).
              
           The role of the association is to provide balance to the calls for excessive punishment and summary use of pepper spray. I can understand removing formal opposition to the coc, because the university declared that a conflict of interest so there were no student reps on appeals boards evaluating students facing exclusion. But going too far the other way smacks of being a company doctor. 
                
            
       • Puddleglum 1.1.1.2

         7 March 2012 at 7:30 pm

         Yes.

         One of the oddest things about this ‘liberating’ legislation is that (a) students will still have to pay the university’s service levy (that is, they will still have their money taken off them ‘compulsorily’) but (b) they have, in effect, lost some control over how that money is spent in their interests.

         What is more, while there is the ‘principle’ that no-one should have to belong to an association they don’t want to, I suppose, that was entirely possible previously. And, while students still had to part with their money compulsorily (as now) they, once again, still had some say in how that money got spent (i.e., choose the charity they’d give it to).

         Someone didn’t think this through. 
2. phillip ure.. 2

   7 March 2012 at 7:34 am

   http://whoar.co.nz/2012/how-ayn-rand-became-the-new-rights-version-of-marx-george-monbiot/

   “…Her psychopathic ideas made billionaires feel like victims –

   – and turned millions of followers into their doormats..”

   you should know that key and many/most around him/most rightwingers are rand-ites..

   ..and why they just ‘don’t care’ ..(apart from about themselves/their class) is explained when you realise their transferral of wealth to the richest/tearing away of support for the poorest/most vulnerable has a (psuedo)-philosophical-base..

   ..and why they seem immune to such imperatives as compassion/commonsense/basic-fairness..

   ..y’see..!..they/the rich/elites are the ‘supermen’…

   ..the rest of us are the leeches…

   ..(know yr enemy..eh..?..)

   ..and i’ll give you a killer one-liner..to stop any randite in their tracks..

   ..a large part of the rand-preaching is that any person taking state support is a ‘leech’..in fact you could call it a pillar of rand-ite belief..

   ..but what most of these rightwingers don’t know…is that after preaching this most of her life…

   ..that rand took state-support..big-time…but hidden/concealed under her husbands’ name..

   ..(a left-equiv. would be news that marx had actually owned/run sweatshops on the side..)

   ..all the anti-rand ammo you will need..is here..

   http://whoar.co.nz/?s=ayn+rand

   phil-at-whoar.
   • rosy 2.1

     7 March 2012 at 9:18 am

     Agree Phil, a very good article written by George Monbiot on the anniversary of the death of the high-priestess of those ‘job creators’ who are positioning labour ‘flexibility’ as reasonable; who are attempting to get rid of state-owned anything – even if it means losing money; and of those who believe banking and big corporations need no regulation because the selfishness of the players will create a balance. It’s language that is heard every day now.

     I was particularly impressed with these paragraphs…

     Through her novels (such as Atlas Shrugged) and her nonfiction (such as The Virtue of Selfishness) she explained a philosophy she called Objectivism. This holds that the only moral course is pure self-interest. We owe nothing, she insists, to anyone, even to members of our own families. She described the poor and weak as “refuse” and “parasites”, and excoriated anyone seeking to assist them. Apart from the police, the courts and the armed forces, there should be no role for government: no social security, no public health or education, no public infrastructure or transport, no fire service, no regulations, no income tax.

     The poor die like flies as a result of government programmes and their own sloth and fecklessness. Those who try to help them are gassed. In a notorious passage, she argues that all the passengers in a train filled with poisoned fumes deserved their fate. One, for instance, was a teacher who taught children to be team players; one was a mother married to a civil servant, who cared for her children; one was a housewife “who believed that she had the right to elect politicians, of whom she knew nothing”.

     This is the philosophy of the ‘new right’ and the Tea Party (despite the contradictions) and separates them from the old-time conservatives, who believe in providing a social safety need. There’s not been any talk of the ‘compassionate conservative’ for quite some time. I think I miss it.
   • framu 2.2

     7 March 2012 at 12:25 pm

     really interesting adam curtis doco on sky at the mo

     “all watched over by machines of loving grace”

     also available here

     only the first bit deals with ayn rand – but highlights the massive holes in her theories – especially when rational objectiveism didnt go her way
     • H.Crown 2.2.1

       7 March 2012 at 5:22 pm

       In the Adam Curtiss doco it showed that
       Ayn Rand and her Wacko friends including Greenspan met every Saturday night, and called themselves “The Collective” I am now certain with her Wacko idea’s, she was not of this world, and was the Borg.
       • framu 2.2.1.1

         8 March 2012 at 7:58 am

         ” called themselves “The Collective””

         yeah – had a chuckle at that
   • Vicky32 2.3

     7 March 2012 at 5:42 pm

     .all the anti-rand ammo you will need..is here..

     Thanks Phil.. (I have written science fiction reductio ad absurdam about Rand’s beliefs, but it’s good to have non-fiction.)
3. tc 3

   7 March 2012 at 7:39 am

   Dunno which was more disappointing on RNZ just now Blinglish getting the wet bus ticket treatment from a pathetic Robinson or Parker pussying around rather than going for the jugular over the NACTs appalling performance on so many fronts.
   Then lightweight Fafoi given an opportunity on police budget slashes failed to mention thatt they were exposed on this in the election campaign and denied it so another blatant lie……no wonder they treat NZ with contempt, noone is holding them to account.
   • just saying 3.1

     7 March 2012 at 8:51 am

     I’d lower your expectations of Labour now tc. It may take the sting out of the feeling of betrayal when the Dalai Shearer starts sharing his “vision”, apparently next week
   • muzza 3.2

     7 March 2012 at 9:13 am

     How many times do I have to spell it out….they are on the same team

     Parliamentarians for Global Order! woops, I mean, Action!

     Time to WTFU people!
   • Lanthanide 3.3

     7 March 2012 at 9:38 am

     I thought Parker was good.

     Admittedly my alarm wakes me up at 7:20, so I missed out on Bill English’s spot. Small mercy I suppose.
4. Salsy 4

   7 March 2012 at 8:13 am

   John Key: Dishonest or deluded?

   PM without answers, a leader without a vision. A bloke who’s just realised the world he once knew doesn’t exist anymore. And that it won’t be returning.A complete banker, just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
   • muzza 4.1

     7 March 2012 at 9:16 am

     “PM without answers, a leader without a vision. A bloke who’s just realised the world he once knew doesn’t exist anymore. And that it won’t be returning.A complete banker, just in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

     At what point I wonder will people start to ask the question that surely stares them right in the eyes, even the really thick ones!

     Jonk Key was been a plant, always was, and still is now. It is no case of wrong place wrong time, its the case of structured positioning of JK into the position he is in, to run with the policies that they are. Simple as that!

     Perhaps the obvious truth is a little too ugly for people!
5. ScottGN 5

   7 March 2012 at 9:42 am

   “Watching the House yesterday was like a blast from the past, circa the Bolger-Shipley government; leaks from public servants, unpopular asset sales, economic woes, and tough cost cutting.”

   Vernon Small likens Key’s administration to shambolic final days of the last National Govt. Actually I reckon history will come to judge Key even more harshly than poor old Jenny Shipley.
6. shorts 6

   7 March 2012 at 9:59 am

   port sacks striking workers

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10790375

   poor bastards
   • Uturn 6.1

     7 March 2012 at 11:00 am

     If they refuse to strike back they will be poor bastards. This is the first shot of industrial war, now. If they do not strike back, winner take all, they send a signal that they consent to being wiped out. It amazes me that these happenings occur so often yet no one understands it’s the opportunity to change industrial relations in NZ permanently. The employer is effectively trying to starve you to death, you, your family, steal your labour and take your housing. That it happens slowly, under the guise of being questionably legal, makes it feel less dramatic, that there is some sort of hope the aggressor will stop out of the kindness of his heart, that you’re responsibly preserving some wider expression of civil order – but the result is no different than if they walked into your home with jack boots and kicked you out.

     An employer is not god, management are not gods, they are human, flesh and blood, they can be reached. The law does not have final say in the affairs of people – it changes from day to day. The only thing standing in the way of industrial war and employers setting up slave wage conditions is the minds of the workers stuck within cultural norms. Once people stop thinking that life is what you see on TV, it becomes very simple to retaliate effectively.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.2

     7 March 2012 at 12:29 pm

     But Mr Brown is refusing to take a side in the industrial dispute between the company and union members – saying he is working only for the “people of Auckland”.

     No, really, he isn’t. If he was working for Auckland he would have fired the PoAL management months ago.

     As for the workers, their best option is to emigrate to Australia.
     • Ianupnorth 6.2.1

       7 March 2012 at 2:11 pm

       Time for a general strike me thinks – everyone out!
        
       POAL will be the first to employ this tactic, closely followed by AFFCO and the Oceania Group.
       • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1

         7 March 2012 at 10:51 pm

         Yeah a general strike is the only way to go now. Tax strike, rates stroke, rent strike, mortgage strike.
7. mickysavage 7

   7 March 2012 at 10:02 am

   POAL has just announced that it will continue with casualisation of the workforce.  Existing workers are entitled to apply for jobs with the contracting companies but you can bet that any union activist worth their salt will not get a job.
    
   Time for Len Brown to step up.
   • Jim Nald 7.1

     7 March 2012 at 10:11 am

     Len who?
     • Jackal 7.1.1

       7 March 2012 at 11:10 am

       Brown! Apparently you get brown when you mix red and green. Not seeing much of those colours from the supposed left wing mayor of the supercity.
   • muzza 7.2

     7 March 2012 at 10:13 am

     “Time for Len Brown to step up” – Not a chance!

     This is a real shame, and I hope I am proved wrong!
     • Morrissey 7.2.1

       7 March 2012 at 11:35 am

       “Time for Len Brown to step up” – Not a chance!

       I think he’s taking advice from David Shearer’s strategist: do nothing, say nothing, or at least if you DO say something, make sure it’s bland and/or incomprehensible.
   • vto 7.3

     7 March 2012 at 10:17 am

     United they stand and divided they fall.

     It is as simple as that. Divide and conquer. Drive down the amount of money paid to the people. Good one (not).
8. prism 8

   7 March 2012 at 10:15 am

   When there are strikes I would like to have a module supplied to the public in extended serious labour disagreements, which would list all the major headings and show what each side is asking for. There would be footnotes at the back to explain the reasons for the requirements. This would bring some clarity to the confusion of information or misinformation drip fed to the public from each side.
9. Jackal 9

   7 March 2012 at 10:56 am

   David Tamihere recall has ulterior motives

   What a complete waste of time and money. There is absolutely no grounds for a recall here, because David Tamihere did not physically go onto the property his parole conditions stipulate are out of bounds…
   • Te Reo Putake 9.1

     7 March 2012 at 11:16 am

     Well, if he does go back inside he might use the time to rethink his refusal to help identify where he buried the bodies. And he clearly did breach his parole by returning to the Coromandel, so I’m optimistic he’ll be back inside sooner rather than later. It’s be nice if the TV crew went with him as well for encouraging the breach.
     • Jackal 9.1.1

       7 March 2012 at 11:36 am

       The TV crew had no inkling that it would be a breach of the parole conditions, which it isn’t anyway. I bet it didn’t register with Tamihere either. Parole conditions do not routinely include airspace. His conditions state that he is not to enter the bush itself, which he has adhered to. Do you have problems with reality based cognitive reasoning perhaps Te Reo Putake?
       • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.1

         7 March 2012 at 11:57 am

         Jeez, what a wally you are sometimes Jackal. He may be a monster, but I find it hard to believe that Tamihere didn’t realise that going to the Coromandel was going to breach a bail condition that he not go to the Coromandel. But still, feel free to offer your services as his defence lawyer. That should almost certainly guarantee he goes back inside.
          
         Just to remind you who you are supporting, Tamihere murdered a defensless young man who was tied to a tree and then disposed of the body. He then kept a young woman alive for several days, raping her at will. He then killed her and disposed of the body. After ending their lives, he then stole their property and was caught red handed trying to sell the stuff. If it wasn’t for his greed, he may have got away with one of the most brutal crimes in NZ history. He stills owes the family the bodies. He should grow a spine and tell them where their loved ones are, but he won’t because he’s a coward.
          
         By the way, I don’t think he will go back inside for this breach. At a guess, the court will consider the stunt ill thought out and not a deliberate act. The judge will probably accept that he’s too thick to understand that the method of transport to the Coromandel is irrelevant and give him the benefit of the doubt.
         • Jackal 9.1.1.1.1

           7 March 2012 at 12:37 pm

           All circumstantial evidence Te Reo Putake. No murder weapon, no proper ID, no DNA. Just a few things Tamihere nicked from the car he stole. If you know so much about the case, how much money was he trying to sell their possessions for?

           Tamihere doesn’t “owe the family the bodies,” because Sven Urban Höglin’s body was found in 1991 and Tamihere probably doesn’t know where Heidi Birgitta Paakkonen’s body is located. Comment on something you actually know something about instead of proving your ignorance.

           Tamihere certainly was an easy target for the cops though, who have likely let the real murderer go free all this time. Wouldn’t it make them look bad and cost a shit load of money if that was the case? 20 years in jail for a crime he potentially didn’t commit, no wonder they’re trying to close him down.
           • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.1

             7 March 2012 at 12:46 pm

             Personally I think Bain is much more likely guilty than Tamihere.
                
             Maybe he needs a rich former all black in his corner?
           • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.1.1.2

             7 March 2012 at 1:14 pm

             There is not a shred of doubt about the conviction, Jackal. Shame on you for supporting rape and murder. You really should shut up now.
             • Morrissey …

               7 March 2012 at 2:07 pm

               There is not a shred of doubt about the conviction…

               Actually, there is. Not the least of the concerns is the fact that the police investigation was led by the notoriously corrupt John Hughes.

               Shame on you for supporting rape and murder.

               Jackal did not support rape and murder. Such an accusation only makes you look trivial and less than serious.
               • Ianupnorth …

                 7 March 2012 at 2:14 pm

                 Having watched the Sunday programme, I at first thought that Tamihere must be guilty, but by the end of it was thinking, yes he isn’t very pleasant, but there are more holes in this case than Swiss Cheese.
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 7 March 2012 at 2:19 pm

                 Rubbish. Tamihere tried every legal avenue to escape justice, and lost every appeal. Apart from these murders, he had already killed and had been convicted for other acts of violence. He is a cowardly piece of crap and the coppers did brilliant work putting him away.
                  
                 Anybody that tries to diminish this vicious and unrepentant criminal’s crimes is going to be seen as supportive of them, I’m afraid. I appreciate that the Jackal is too young to have a clue about the facts of the case, what with him not being alive at the time, but that does not make his pandering to this creep any less offensive.
                 • Jackal …

                   7 March 2012 at 2:45 pm

                   I don’t support rape and murder Te Reo Putake. Quite the opposite… I support justice, and in this case I don’t think it’s been done. Keep your insults and disgusting baseless accusations to yourself.
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     7 March 2012 at 2:51 pm

                     Happy to be of service, Jackal and good to see you’ve changed your position to one of of opposition to rape and murder. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
                   • Jackal …

                     7 March 2012 at 10:54 pm

                     My position has not changed Te Reo Putake. I have never supported rape or murder. Stop being an idiot!
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     7 March 2012 at 11:01 pm

                     Have you stopped abusing your children yet.
                 • Morrissey …

                   7 March 2012 at 3:55 pm

                   Te Reo,

                   I note with concern that you have an obnoxious habit of putting words into people’s mouths that are the exact opposite of what they in fact think or say.

                   That no doubt gives you the advantage at, say, a workplace (with cringing underlings too afraid to contradict you) or in a pub (people too drunk to argue) but here on the Net, such abuse only makes the abuser look bad.

                   You’re better than that, surely?
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     7 March 2012 at 4:18 pm

                     Ha! I wish my underlings would cringe around me, but I’m not that kind of boss and they’re not that kind of underling. 
                      
                     You probably spotted that the Jackal annoyed me with his half baked support for Tamihere’s lying and disrepectful claims of innocence. But, you are right, I shouldn’t have continued on with that rather sneering comment. I was just trying to hammer home that it is contradictory to be opposed to crimes like Tamihere’s and at the same time suggest he didn’t do them, when the only unexplained matters in the case are whether he acted alone and where the other body is buried. Both things Tamihere could clear up in a hearbeat, if he wasn’t a pathetic excuse for a man.
                      
                     Not everything is a mystery or a conspiracy. Some things are exactly as they seem. This is one of those cases.
                      
                   • Morrissey …

                     7 March 2012 at 8:26 pm

                     Ha! I wish my underlings would cringe around me…

                     I’m sure you’re not the kind of boss we see here….
                     
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     7 March 2012 at 8:50 pm

                     Well, I do have a Basil like tendency to sigh and roll my eyes, but most days I start out thinking I’m Neil but end up David.
                   • Morrissey …

                     7 March 2012 at 9:29 pm

                     most days I start out thinking I’m Neil but end up David.

                     As long as you don’t end up like David’s “mate”…
                 • insider …

                   7 March 2012 at 9:26 pm

                   Out of interest, is there any good website or resource accessible about this case? Ellis and Bain have a lot but I’ve not found anything on this.
10. Morrissey 10

    7 March 2012 at 11:03 am

    LIAR WATCH No. 4
    NewstalkZB promotions department
    NewstalkZB, March 7, 2012

    1.) “Here at the Radio Network, we strive to uphold the highest standards of broadcasting…”
    – – – – – – – – – ——- – – – – – – – ——– – – – – – –
    If you enjoyed this, you might like to see….

    LIARWATCH No. 1 (Populuxe1):
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27022012/#comment-441643

    LIARWATCH No. 2 (grumpy):
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-01032012/#comment-442389

    LIAR WATCH No. 3 (Eyes Wide Open):
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02032012/#comment-442853
    • Populuxe1 10.1

      7 March 2012 at 8:32 pm

      “Disgusted of Levin” drops a snowflake in the Grand Canyon and then waits expectantly for the echo.
      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        7 March 2012 at 8:54 pm

        I got the fish I was after. Just a little expedition, it was, but a very satisfying outcome.
        • Populuxe1 10.1.1.1

          7 March 2012 at 9:05 pm

          Small things amuse small minds – the petite in petty
          • Morrissey 10.1.1.1.1

            7 March 2012 at 9:24 pm

            Small but satisfying.

            What you are experiencing now, my friend, is the daily bleeding away of your credibility, AKA death by a thousand cuts.
            • Populuxe1 10.1.1.1.1.1

              7 March 2012 at 9:32 pm

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm29QHaRyuY    Says it all, really
              • Morrissey …

                8 March 2012 at 9:37 am

                The girl is mine.
          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.2

            7 March 2012 at 10:01 pm

            Small things amuse small minds – the petite in petty

            Ironically, this is actually an extremely small minded statement.
            • Populuxe1 10.1.1.1.2.1

              7 March 2012 at 10:14 pm

              A meta-irony even, given you can’t resist taking a potshot
              • Colonial Viper …

                7 March 2012 at 11:03 pm

                Hey I’m an OCD kind of dude
11. Jackal 11

    7 March 2012 at 10:43 pm

    The disappearing Police complaint

    On 5 September, I wrote to the Police Commissioner Peter Marshall, to make a formal complaint concerning Owen Glenn bribing people to vote for the National or Act parties in the upcoming general election…
12. Populuxe1 12

    7 March 2012 at 11:21 pm

    OK. Gedankenexperiment time. Just for the sake of argument, what would happen if the Crown did return Te Urawera to Tūhoe? Total sovereignty – like Lesotho or Vatican City. However with total sovereignty, they would no longer be considered New Zealand citizens and their access to State infrastructure would exist on a significantly reduced basis.
    
    • Galeandra 12.1

      8 March 2012 at 9:45 am

      What a deep and original question. Can we fiind a kiddy toon clip to support this riff and add yet more burnish to your ‘academic’ quals?

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