Open mike 07/04/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 7th, 2012 - 121 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

121 comments on “Open mike 07/04/2012”

  1. Gareth Hughes is calling for a moratorium on all tracking until “people’s health and safety can be guaranteed”.

    Whistle-blowing MP Gareth Hughes has called on tracking to be halted in New Zealand while Parliament’s environmental watchdog carries out a top-level investigation into the controversial transportation industry process.

    The process involves the high-pressure injection of diesel into combustion chambers to help release energy.

    (Hughes calls for tracking ban until facts known)

    • deuto 1.1

      Warning – no “tracking” provided in the above. Link is yet again to his own site.

      • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1

        Bloody police state.

        I hope I’m not tracked by having diesel injected into my combustion chambers.

        Sounds terribly painful.

      • LynW 1.1.2

        +1

      • David H 1.1.3

        As I just found out.

        But it’s what you come to expect from an entity, with nothing of interest to say, and where, no one want’s to hear it’s drivel, hence it has to resort to sly methods, like link whoring.

    • The simple point is, how safe is safe enough? We can’t have 100% safe, it’s a matter of deciding on acceptable levels of risk. This applies to many things. Even electing parties.

      • Descendant Of Smith 1.2.1

        “The simple point is, how safe is safe enough? ”

        No that’s a complex point.

        “We can’t have 100% safe”

        We can, it’s called not doing it.

        • Pete George 1.2.1.1

          Doing nothing can be unsafe too. Living is a risk – and we all succumb in the end.

          • locus 1.2.1.1.1

            Are you trying to say that because you can’t make something “100% safe” that gives you the right to go ahead and do it regardless?!

            Your “simple point” about safety management is that you decide what is an acceptable level of risk. Exactly!! So if you decide that the consequences of a possible incident are unacceptable then not doing the thing that incurs the risk is the obvious thing to do.

            You think that the risk of living is that one day you’ll die, wow… good argument. But completely irrelevant in terms of our freedom to decide how to manage most of the risks that life throws up.

            As for electing parties … if only a few people had known the consequences of voting nact and their sycophantic allies they’d have made a different decision.

          • mike e 1.2.1.1.2

            pg from the doing nothing party obviously your an expert as well as stating the the blindingly obvious.
            Vote for Unbridled Fools
            the low risk no risk party!

      • KJT 1.2.2

        True. 100% risk the country is almost irretrievably fucked, under National.

        National, on their past record, should be banned until proven safe.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.3

      Pete’s probably referring to this worker being spied on by his boss. Expensive bit of snooping, as it turns out.

    • I agree there should be no tracking until workers’ health is guaranteed.  Bloody trackers … 

      • Carol 1.4.1

        tc @ 7.30am I treat his posts as spam …. is there a filter for it? Either he’s a troll or he has a misguided belief his comments stack up as convincing arguments.

        • Uturn 1.4.1.1

          I’m waiting for the mozilla ad-on, though could be waiting some time. How many people do you reckon would use it?

          I’m curious about what would fill the vacuum if he was censored. The other day, a newby was tapped on the shoulder by mods for a single instance of being open about their linking – and their content was actually interesting. Here is Pete, everyday spam spam spamming his way into the history books. So I guess there must be some officially sanctioned higher purpose he serves. Perhaps he is being farmed, like ants do to aphids, collecting their skicky honeydew excretions, so that newcomers have something to cut their teeth on.

          Do you have any new tricks, Pete? The show is at risk of getting a little dull. Even Coronation Street had to spice it up. What about faking a party/ideological change, then switching back to the “moderation of the centre”? Could be exciting, like the time in Home and Away when Charlie flirted with lesbianism. Fancy being a lesbian for a few weeks, Pete?

      • KATY 1.4.2

        Yes. Stop all the trackers before they become little Frackers.

    • PJ 1.5

      Agreed Pete, that movie with Tem Morrison was god-awful. A sequel would be toe-curling. Say no to The Tracker 2!

    • prism 1.6

      Can this be ‘medicinal’? I need more energy in my chambers. But maybe it could be as addictive as Pete G finds this blog site. Whatever did he/she do before finding this ersatz family to squabble with all day. Churchill said Jaw jaw is better than war, war. I say what actual actions can each of us actually do to enhance the good things in the world? I get sick of words, words.

      I suggest instead finding some useful volunteer work, outdoor could be healthy helping to plant streamside pollution catching and preventing shrubs etc. Or taking on a Big Brother Big Sister role to a child needing another stable caring person in their life. Or something else in NZ supporting a local initiative. If Pete G is already doing something, he has time for more useful stuff – I know what would be good. The Citizens Advice Bureau, a perfect place for a well-informed volunteer who wants to keep up to date and advise others.

  2. Tc 2

    Pg is making this site a tiresome bore at times due to his constant carping on……perhaps that’s part of his masters plan.

    • I often just ignore anything I think is boring. Like…

      “Boo Key, boo Collins, Yay!….um, uh, boo National, boo PG”.

      Try adding what you think is exciting and promote invigorating debate, if that’s what you prefer.

      • Tc 2.1.1

        ‘Invigorating debate’ many times your pants get pulled down as you shift your position to try and keep alive your threads PG, sometimes it’s entertaining but mostly it’s boring….invigorating is not a word I’d used to describe you.

      • mickysavage 2.1.2

        Let’s have a DNFTT day with Petey.  Every time he posts something someone posts “DNFTT” immediately afterwards.

        • deuto 2.1.2.1

          +1. I am really sick of PG virtually taking over this site. I am just surprised at the number of people who bite and fall into the trap that allows him to do so.

          As I think it was RL commented yesterday, some useful discussions and facts sometimes come out of the ensuing discussions and threads, but his dominance in every post and thread is both boring and annoying. So, please DFTT.

          • ianmac 2.1.2.1.1

            +1

            • Anne 2.1.2.1.1.1

              Me too with bells on. It’s got to the stage that I stop reading comments because I can’t be bothered scrolling over the PG barrage.

              Please don’t respond folks then he might (eventually) go away and once again we can follow intelligent and informed conversations.

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1.2

            but his dominance in every post and thread is both boring and annoying.

            Perhaps I could try a bit harder 😛

            • deuto 2.1.2.1.2.1

              LOL – but personally I don’t find your comments boring or annoying!

              Notice he has been quiet for an hour or so now. Can’t be bothered looking but perhaps he is doing “his thing” over at WO or KB where he is also a regular. Also notice that he has not been active on the DimPost since his recent ban here expired; but not surprised as he certainly did not “win friends and influence people” there. What also annoys me is that he goes on these other blogs and disses the Standard and its followers, but still continues to participate here – a total hypocrite IMO.

              • deuto

                Update – had a quick look at KB and there is PG pushing his bit at 1 above in the General Discussion thread. And here is an example of him dissing this site:

                Peter George (12,813) Says:

                April 7th, 2012 at 9:04 am
                Other_Andy – here is proof, justed posted response to a simple question I asked.

                Greens: From coal (lignite and conventional), gold, iron sands and other mineral mining to fracking and deep sea oil drilling

                Me: Do the Greens want to stop or prevent all of that?

                Jenny: The question is Pete. Do we need it? I challenge you, (or anyone else), to justify any of it.

                Jenny: Apart from providing profits for some fat cats and despoiling the environment, what other purpose does it serve?

                I asked that question a couple of times over the last couple of days, and this was the most reasonable response, the rest was personal attacks and abuse (one abuse on me was even censored by The Standard which is saying a lot, they are not usually sympathetic in attacks on me. I didn’t see what had been said).

        • joe90 2.1.2.2

          I think Pete’s of the Tireless Rebutter variety.


          For Tireless Rebutter there is no such thing as a trivial dispute. He regards all challenges as barbarians at the gates. His unflagging tenacity in making his points numbs and eventually wears down the opposition. Confident that his arguments are sound, Tireless Rebutter can’t understand why he is universally loathed.

          • deuto 2.1.2.2.1

            LOL – spot on. Time to forget him and have a shower and do something ‘useful’ like dishes, gardening and bathing one dog. The other is a very large Rottie cross who doesn’t like baths and I am not game or stupid enough to try to bath him.

          • RedLogix 2.1.2.2.2

            Hehe joe….we’re all there.

      • mike e 2.1.3

        PG you must be in anguish all the time trying to ignore you and your leader

  3. Labour MP Sue Moroney’s Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months’ Paid Leave) Amendment Bill has been drawn from the ballot and may have the numbers without National.

    UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne has campaigned on extending paid parental leave to 12 months, and most other political parties, except ACT, are likely to support the bill. That will leave National in a tight spot if it chooses to vote against the family-friendly legislation.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6706106/Government-on-the-spot-with-parental-leave

    I wouldn’t call it a tight spot, each party simply has to decide if it supports it or not, and be judged on it’s decision. I don’t care who opposes as long as enough support it.

    This bill has been thoughtfully constructed, with an incremental approach that will make it difficult to oppose, even on the basis of fiscal constraints.

    • Jenny 3.1

      A classic case of how small flanking parties can embarrass the larger ruling parties to do the right thing.

      Just as the Maori Party embarrassed Labour into reluctantly supporting taking GST off fresh fruit and vegetables, when Rahui Katene’s private members bill was drawn from the ballot.

      In this case, National is the one under pressure. But it is funny, (if it wasn’t so tragic), how their excuses against a family friendly measure, echo Labour’s lame excuse that taking GST off food is simply unaffordable.

      Kate Wilkinson said the increase was “simply unaffordable”.

      However in this case National is in an even weaker moral position than Labour in claiming unaffordability for a family friendly policy, when affordability was never issue for the Nats. when it came to bailing out rich folk to the tune of $billions when their speculative bubble burst in 2008.

      In fact the Nats. gifted one loser in the South Canturbury collapse, Roger Kerr, a cool $100 million to cover his losses, no strings attached. (Despite the fact that he still had $180 million to his name.)

      But when it comes to families trying to care for children and struggling to pay the bills, it’s another story, no relief is to be given here.

      The crude and cruel partizan mask of the Nats. is in the process of being ripped off with this one policy.

      All power to United Future and Sue Maroney.

    • Jenny 3.2

      I wouldn’t call it a tight spot, each party simply has to decide if it supports it or not, and be judged on it’s decision. I don’t care who opposes as long as enough support it.

      This bill has been thoughtfully constructed, with an incremental approach that will make it difficult to oppose, even on the basis of fiscal constraints.

      Pete George

      This is a classic case of how small flanking parties can embarrass the larger ruling parties to do the right thing.

      Just as the Maori Party embarrassed Labour into reluctantly supporting taking GST off fresh fruit and vegetables, when Rahui Katene’s private members bill was drawn from the ballot.

      In this case, National is the one under pressure. But it is funny, (if it wasn’t so tragic), how their excuses against a family friendly measure, echo Labour’s lame excuse that taking GST off food is simply unaffordable.

      Kate Wilkinson for National, said the increase was “simply unaffordable”.

      However in this case National’s Wilkinson is in an even weaker moral position than Labour in claiming unaffordability for a family friendly policy. Affordability was never issue for the Nats. when it came to bailing out rich folk to the tune of $billions when their speculative bubble burst in 2008.

      In fact the Nats. gifted one loser in the South Canturbury collapse, Roger Kerr, a cool $100 million to cover his losses, no strings attached. (Despite the fact that he still had $180 million to his name.)

      But when it comes to families trying to care for children and struggling to pay the bills, it’s another story, no relief is to be given here.

      New Zealand is to witness the crude and cruel partizan face of the Nats. being revealed to all during the procession of this one bill.

      All power to United Future and Sue Maroney.

      • deuto 3.2.1

        I was pleased to see this Bill pulled, but time will tell.

        I just did a quick (and these days rare) look at Kiwiblog and note that Farrar today has a post on the subject related to the Stuff article. He states:

        It is worth mentioning that the Government can stop the bill being passed into law, even without a majority in Government. If the Minister of Finance signs a certificate saying the bill “would have more than a minor impact on the Government’s fiscal aggregates”, then under Standing Orders the Speaker will not give the bill a third reading. It can however proceed up until then.

        On the merits of increasing paid parental leave, lets just say it is a debate which could be worthwhile to have when we are back in surplus, but while we are struggling with debt and deficit, it would be ir-responsible to do so.

        Re the possibility of the government being able to stop the bill being passed into law even without a majority, I am not aware of this provision. Perhaps others with better knowledge can elucidate.

        PS – guess who was the first to comment? PG……….

        • Pascal's bookie 3.2.1.1

          haha, That thread’s hilarious:

          http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/paid_parental_leave.html#comments

          Widespread deep ignorance about what the bill would do, and knee jerk threats to stop employing teh womenz.

          Given that it’s UF policy I expect PG will be in there boots and all with the same style of comments that he uses here.

          • David H 3.2.1.1.1

            And how many are taking advantage of the things on offer, like PPL the DOLE, Sickness B, etc etc. And then go and rant and rave on Kiwiblog and The Whales slime pit.

    • Jenny 3.3

      Of course the real test Pete, is whether United Future will make this policy a make or break issue for their support of the National led coalition, as New Zealand First did with Labour with their NZF policy for a Gold Card for senior citizens.

      If National decide to shit all over this United Future policy and UF rolls over for them, then UF’s purpose for existence as a small flanker party holding the larger parties to account is effectively ended, along with all hopes of ever getting any voter support again.

      Will the United Future Party make a stand?

      Or will United Future disappear from the political landscape, (most likely forever)?

      Where will your political support go then, Pete?

      National?

      Labour?

      NZF?

      Come on Pete, give us clue.

      • deuto 3.3.1

        Good points and questions, Jenny – especially in view of Farrar’s comments I quoted in 3.2.1 above. Surely it would bring the whole National/UF agreement into jeopardy.

        [PS – in case you didn’t see it, at the second of my (un-numbered) comments below 2.1.2.1.1 above, I have quoted some comments from Kiwiblog made by PG which include quoting from your comments here on the Standard. ]

      • Pete George 3.3.2

        Jenny:
        a) I don’t think this will be a make or break issue, Peter Dunne is free to vote on many things. He has already indicated he will support the Labour Mondayisation bill.

        b) If UF fade away (it’s obviously a possibility) I’ll make my decision then. Depends on how things evolve and the state of parties.

        I’ve voted Labour before, I would consider them again if they rebuild successfully and have a better (in my opinion) mix of policies.

        I’ve voted Greens before and would consider them again, I like some of their policies but think others are too extreme so it would depend on what they are giving a priority to and mix of personal.

        I’d consider voting National but depends on if they had done their dash or not amongst other things. I may have voted National once.

        Who I vote for can depend on whether I want to aim at boosting their numbers or limiting them, plus policies and personal and priorities.

        I’ve been criticised here before for this approach to voting but I think it’s common amongst swing voters, the ones who often make the difference in elections.

  4. KJT 4

    For those who are deluded enough to still believe that agreements like the TPP cannot affect our National Sovereignty.

    http://www.alternet.org/food/154855/Monsanto_Threatens_to_Sue_Vermont_if_Legislators_Pass_a_Bill_Requiring_GMO_Food_to_Be_Labeled/

    We can be sued for any! laws which affect offshore corporate profits, as Canada has been, including labour protection laws, truth in advertising laws and consumer protection.

    For example. McDonalds could sue for Mondayising public holidays.

    As you can see from the link, this is not a scare. It is already occurring.

  5. David 5

    Fran O’Sullivan has a crushing piece in today’s Herald on the Sky City chequebook legislation deal.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10797154

    My response: Where are the ‘chairman’s card’ and cash- for- comments celebrities now that Sky City needs them? Would’ nt now be the time for Mike what’s his name to bare his conviction on his chest and come out swinging,saying this is not crony capitalism, and NZ really will be better off if we can get more struggling people pokies adicted?

    • Carol 5.1

      For once I gree with Ms O’Sullivan.

      • rosy 5.1.1

        Absolutely, and written with some passion that I didn’t expect. I wonder if Key has some ‘elegant solution’ he’s proposing so Act and the MP support him after their strong opposition.

        I liked this bit too:

        But it’s a message that the public should send John Key’s Government loud and clear. It’s not too late to walk away from an iniquitous deal which will see SkyCity underwrite the cost of building a new International Convention Centre adjoining its Auckland premises in return for being allowed to expand its casino business.

    • David Cunliffe asked in Parliament if Joyce had one of these cards.  I would be interested to see why he asked.

        • rosy 5.2.1.1

          Aaaannndd PG ruins another thread.

        • locus 5.2.1.2

          PG – Do the decent thing and read what people link to before making such a totally stupid and unwarranted comment. Wanting to know whether Joyce has a SkyCity free perks card is pertinent, as is wanting to know why Dave Cunliffe asked

      • bad12 5.2.2

        David Cunliffe might find more fertile ground asking Joyce from the floor of the Parliament whether He,(Joyce), has all or part of His business interests held within a ”blind trust” managed by others which gives Joyce the ”no knowledge option of what shareholdings are ”bought” and sold from within such a ”blind trust” and would He be surprised if such a blind trust held an amount of Skycity shares…

    • bad12 5.3

      It’s a damning indictment of ”an industry” from first the journalist and secondly the Herald which run with the story,

      The torrid RED centre of our intellect immediately saw it,RED, that is,and began to have visions of truckloads of pokie machines still emitting their jingles and flashing lights of hypnotism being dumped off of the Auckland wharf into the harbour, and, the guts of the SkyCity complex being remodeled into a soup kitchen an emergency accommodation complex to serve Auckalnd,

      The Green centre of such intellect of course objected strongly to the former idea and a compromise had to be quickly reached to simply pull them apart for recycling,

      Like the Herald’s O’Sullivan , We like to have a good look over a period of time,sometimes months,at the things which concern us,and, brain-washed may spring to mind when we have sat and watched the inmates of various small time pokie operations in various bars round Wellington,

      Anyone who has milked cows tho as part of our wee group of islands white gold rush will instantly understand the atmosphere in any place where a full room of pokie machines are being quietly attended to by an equal number of those quietly and (seemingly)contentedly being milked by machines that in all the times and time we observed gave back nothing but the flashing of lights and the various mechanically generated tunes?,

      The fact that we have these things en masse sucking the life-blood from those who are captured by their allure both rich and poor is a blight on our landscape and the fact that ANY Government has now stooped so low as to give the perception of openly having ”legislation for sale” castes our minds back to literature we have read about the excesses of Batista’s Cuba not long befor Castro and the cadre kicked in the doors and destroyed every last venue of gambling on that island…

      • ianmac 5.3.1

        A lot of passion and great imagery there bad12. Cow milking analogy great stuff.

        • deuto 5.3.1.1

          +1. I could virtually see the pokie machines being dumped in the harbour, and know what Bad12 means by the taldry little pokie parlours in Wellington. I will probably never be able to walk past one again without seeing cows instead of sad people! Although I have never been to Sky City, the imagery of it being turned into a giant soup kitchen……….! LOL.

          • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1.1.1

            Well, if we did turn Sky City into a soup kitchen it would at least become useful.

    • Jenny 5.4

      A classic case of how small flanking parties can embarrass the larger ruling parties to do the right thing.

      Just as the Maori Party embarrassed Labour into reluctantly supporting taking GST off fresh fruit and vegetables, when Rahui Katene’s private members bill was drawn from the ballot.

      In this case, National is the one under pressure. But it is funny, (if it wasn’t so tragic), how their excuses against a family friendly measure, echo Labour’s lame excuse that taking GST off food is simply unaffordable.

      Kate Wilkinson said the increase was “simply unaffordable”.

      However in this case National is in an even weaker moral position than Labour in claiming unaffordability for a family friendly policy, when affordability was never issue for the Nats. when it came to bailing out rich folk to the tune of $billions when their speculative bubble burst in 2008.

      In fact the Nats. gifted one loser in the South Canturbury collapse, Roger Kerr, a cool $100 million to cover his losses, no strings attached. (Despite the fact that he still had $180 million to his name.)

      But when it comes to families trying to care for children and struggling to pay the bills, it’s another story, no relief is to be given here.

      The crude and cruel partizan mask of the Nats. is in the process of being ripped off with this one policy.

      All power to United Future and Sue Maroney.

  6. Te Reo Putake 6

    I think I’ve found the anti-PG. Well, anti-Shearer/Key/Hair et al.
     
    100% tax on income above NZ $1 million. Now that’s sensible economic policy; super rich is just as bad for an economy as grinding poverty is.

    • rosy 6.1

      Fantastic, isn’t he? That’s resetting the narrative. He’s even taken out the far-right – taken that deep-seated fear of difference and pointed the anger to where it belongs.

      ‘Mélenchon has no intention of toning down his campaign or his anger. “You can’t present a programme like mine with the face of a sweet little boy taking his first communion,” he says’

    • Lanthanide 6.2

      100% tax is ridiculous and would never work. If you thought evasion was bad enough when we went from 33% to 39%…

      • locus 6.2.1

        Plenty of the most wealthy people in NZ think it’s stupid to pay tax if you can avoid and evade. Current NZ legislation permits far too much avoidance and given the current level of commitment to chasing up the evaders you might be right Lanth. But now is definitely the time to consider a 100% tax on income over say $500k combined with serious efforts to remove the loopholes, and well resourced teams to investigate, prosecute and punish evaders severely. Mélenchon’s ideas are inspirational.

      • Te Reo Putake 6.2.2

        I think the point is that people at that level of income pay little or no tax now, by hiding it behind trusts and other minimisation arrangements. I can’t remember which one it is, but one of the candidates in the Republican Party Presidential race pays less tax than his house cleaner. That won’t be much different for our Glorious Leader either, I imagine.
         
        Melenchon has already won the 100% wealth tax argument just by having it discussed worldwide. That’s how framing works.

        • Lanthanide 6.2.2.1

          Yes, as a narrative technique to draw attention to his campaign it is amazingly effective.

          As a policy that could be implemented or people would actually vote for, not so much.

          • RedLogix 6.2.2.1.1

            umm… argue with this:

            Crushing fat cat pay is pretty simple, he explained. “Anything above €360,000, we take it all. The tax bracket will be 100%. People say to me, that’s ideological. I say too right it is. It’s a vision of society. Just as we won’t allow poverty in our society, we won’t allow the hyper-accumulation of riches. Money should not be accumulated but circulated, invested, spent for the common good.”

            Will rich people flee France, as his critics warn? “If they do, no problem. Bye bye,” he smiled.

            He reasons that if the top tier of French bosses left, their deputies would take over. Not to mention another Mélenchon proposal – now also taken up by Sarkozy himself – that any tax exile would have to pay the difference back to the French state. “So there’s no point leaving, because we’ll catch you. If they don’t pay, we’ll seize what they own.

            “Look, we have to smash this prejudice that the rich are useful just because they’re rich.”

            “Capitalist propaganda always managed to make people think the markets’ interests were humanity’s interests.” For too long people have been made to feel that they were some kind of drain or problem for expecting free education, free healthcare or being able to stop working when they were old and spent.”

            Finally someone says it out loud. We’ve had 30 years of being battered with an extremist capitalist message that anything normal, human even, feels strange.

            • Lanthanide 6.2.2.1.1.1

              Well you could say goodbye to France picking up the top talent – why would top CEOs go to work in France when they could just work in Germany or somewhere else? You’re also going to be forcing massive fire-sales of assets from people who can no longer afford to pay the finance on the property because they’re having all of their income confiscated by the government from the 100% tax.

              I have also wondered about the impact of rich people keeping all the money in their bank accounts: effectively this fights inflation. If we give money to poor people, they spend it into the economy, creating a money-go-round, which in the end results in higher inflation. On the other hand rich people act like sponges, soaking up the excess cash and sitting on it.

              I think maybe if you gave money to the poor people, you’d push up inflation to a sufficient level so that they weren’t better-off anyway.

              • RedLogix

                Well you could say goodbye to France picking up the top talent – why would top CEOs go to work in France when they could just work in Germany or somewhere else?

                The evidence I’ve seen (linked to before round here, just can’t be arsed finding it again) is that there is an inverse relationship between CEO pay and company wealth creation.

                I think maybe if you gave money to the poor people, you’d push up inflation to a sufficient level so that they weren’t better-off anyway.

                I think you are confusing the effects of the ‘quantity of money’ with the ‘velocity of money’. You are correct that the poor spend their income, but because that income was generated by economic activity in one form or another… it’s not inflationary.

                • Lanthanide

                  Ok, so velocity vs quantity of money, I can buy that.

                  But if you’re talking about giving poor people more spending money, through tax cuts, then actually they haven’t produced anything extra today than they did yesterday, yet today they get to keep more of the money in their pockets because of lower tax.

                  That is increasing the quantity of available money and would therefore lead to inflation?

                  • RedLogix

                    If the economy was running at full capacity then yes.

                    Essentially the value of money is determined by the ratio of the total supply of money divided by the total supply of goods and services.

                    Imagine a toy economy with only one good…cows. And notched sticks were the only currency. If you had 100 cows and 100 sticks, then logically 1 cow = 1 stick.

                    If I doubled the number of sticks to 200 then 1 cow = 2 sticks. That’s inflation in the sense you are thinking of it.

                    But imagine if in our economy when we doubled the number of sticks to 200… AND the number of cows also doubled to 200. Then 1 cow = 1 stick. No inflation. This would happen if there was spare capacity in our toy economy so that when we increased the supply of money there was a rise in demand for cows that could be met.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The problem comes when you can no longer increase the number of cows and still keep increasing the amount of money.

                    • KJT

                      The problem at the moment comes, when the wealthy increase the nominal amount of money, by speculative games between themselves, then try to spend it on real goods and services.

                      The answer is to stop giving them so much in the first place.

                      Note the irony of someone with a million dollar, unearned, trust fund, talking about having to support “bludging beneficiaries”.

                • KJT

                  Well they would not go to work in Germany.

                  The gap between CEO pay and workers pay is much less in Germany.

                  Germany and Japan seem to find competent managers even so.

                  The link was here.

                  http://kjt-kt.blogspot.co.nz/2011/04/kia-ora-corporatism-and-neo-liberalism.html

                  “The corporations with the largest income gap between Directors/Managers and employees have proven to be the least functional. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/25145966?uid=3738776&uid=2&uid=4&sid=47698850862127

              • Colonial Viper

                I think maybe if you gave money to the poor people, you’d push up inflation to a sufficient level so that they weren’t better-off anyway.

                that’s the most fucked, stupid, uneconomic reasoning in the world. Sorry Lanth, can’t pull the punch back there.

                Its a story propogated by those who have the most to lose from inflation: those sitting on hoards of cash.

                And why fight inflation by lettting the ultrarich hoard all that cash? Leaving aside for the moment that in a debt ridden world inflation is actually extremely useful.

                Why not just cancel all that haorded cash (which you have to remember is a massive claim on future labour, services and physical goods) and provide to the economy just sufficient money to transact ordinary commerce and the activity of peoples’ day to day lives?

                You also completely omit the other vital factor in fighting inflation in your monetarist approach – and that is ensuring vital productivity and true competition in the market place, preferably weighted towards smaller players.

                Profiteering price hikes do not occur in markets where there are high levels of productivity and competition for the consumer and government dollar.

                BTW there is now plenty of evidence to say that price hikes in ordinary commodities (inflation, if you will) has been occurring because of massive central bank money printing (QE). The mega wealthy have been using that money to buy up assets and speculate in commodity and equity markets, driving the price up on everyone else who unlike them, can’t access billions through the Fed window at 0.2% pa.

                • Lanthanide

                  I’m not trying to say that is what will happen, I’m just wondering if it would be a consequence of it.

                  Seems like a reasonable question to me.

                  “Why not just cancel all that haorded cash (which you have to remember is a massive claim on future labour, services and physical goods)”

                  Only as long as the ponzi scheme keeps going. Once it falls over, all that hoarded cash will simply vanish into thin air, as you actually suggested we do. So the overall effect then is that the cash has been permanently removed from the economy at the time it was put in the bank.

              • Draco T Bastard

                why would top CEOs go to work in France when they could just work in Germany or somewhere else?

                You mean like the top CEOs that just caused a global recession? Yeah, I think we (and France) can probably do without them.

              • bad12

                Aha,and that thinking by Labour is in essence,(along with the rest of your rant), why Labour is stuck fighting for the middle/upper middle class vote with National in what has simply become a bidding war between political factions of the neo-capitalist ism,

                Another poster pointed out in a post the other day that NZFirst is in fact the ”old” National Party way to the left of the neo-capitalist present one and we dare suggest that Labour also sits to the ”right” of NZFirst when viewed from a point of economic direction and policy,

                Lets look at your first point from the view point of those on the shop floor,the dairy giant Fonterra pays its CEO what? 1 million, 2 million, 3 million, you see where we are heading?,

                Meanwhile Fonterra pays the drivers of its trucking fleet what, 50,000, 75,000, 100,000,

                If the CEO of Fonterra where to drop dead tomorrow what actual effect would this have upon the company,s operation?, We would dare suggest that the answer to that would be None, Nada, Zilch,

                However,if Fonterra,s vehicle fleet drivers all en masse succumbed and transited to that great truck stop in the sky, what effect would that immediately have upon the company, our view there would be a huge one, Fonterra would cease to operate as a company until such time it could find and train new operators for its vehicle fleet,

                Your point that under neo-capital giving the unemployed more cash in their pocket creates inflation is simply an echoing of Sir(spit)Roger Douglas and the whole Chicago school of economics neo-capitalist ism,

                Using the employment via making people unemployed is simply an economic tool that kills economic activity in favor of protecting the value of the stash that the already rich already possess and is brought into whole-heartedly by the ownership classes wanting to keep their mortgage rates firmly mired in low single digit figures…

                • Draco T Bastard

                  If the CEO of Fonterra where to drop dead tomorrow what actual effect would this have upon the company,s operation?, We would dare suggest that the answer to that would be None, Nada, Zilch,

                  However,if Fonterra,s vehicle fleet drivers all en masse succumbed and transited to that great truck stop in the sky, what effect would that immediately have upon the company

                  Even if just one truckie went to the Great Truck Stop it would have more effect upon Fonterra than if the CEO went to the Ninth Circle. If the truckie goes deliveries are delayed, work must be done to find a replacement immediately and the loss must be worked around until a replacement is found. The CEO goes, the vice CEO steps in and things continue as if nothing happened until a replacement is found.

                  • Balanced View

                    What are they serving for lunch today DTB? Do you take the tranquilizers before or after?

                    [That’s not an argument and isn’t funny. It’s just dickhead behaviour and attracts unwelcome attention from the moderators…RL]

                    • Balanced View

                      Apologies DTB, I must be spending too much time around Viper.
                      I think you are drastically understating the value of a good CEO, as well as the intelligence of those business owners that appoint and pay them.
                      But you are correct that all other employees add value to a business.

                    • McFlock

                      By that logic the Bridgecorp CEO was paid very little for his services, given his performance.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The real problem is that managers value is over stated, massively so. No one is worth millions of dollars per year. Hell, I doubt if anyone is worth more than 100k.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Apologies DTB, I must be spending too much time around Viper.

                      Not enough, I would suggest.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hell, I doubt if anyone is worth more than 100k.

                      The literal best of the best are worth $250K-$300K p.a. IMO

                      These aren’t accountants and financiers, please note. These are engineers, surgeons, other people whose specialist judgements mean life or death.

                      The main issue however remains one of a select few living off masses of capital and unearned wealth generated by other people.

                • bad12

                  We would dare further suggest that the unemployment benefit be done away with altogether and replaced with THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM WAGE,its a matter of Social Justice that We cant really see Labour being able to come to grips with,being all wrapped up in issues of ,”they didnt produce anything so why should they get more”,

                  We dare say that what the unemployed produced via their unemployment is an economic climate of basement level single digit inflation to the benefit of the middle/upper middle classes so as to enable them to play monopoly in the middle of a housing shortage…

            • millsy 6.2.2.1.1.2

              The wealthy have been let off the hook big time during this recession. Time that changed.

            • QoT 6.2.2.1.1.3

              … if anyone needs me, I’ll be in my bunk.

    • Olwyn 6.3

      Viva la Mélenchon! It is so heartening to see the dialogue of the past 30 years seriously challenged.

      • Vicky32 6.3.1

        Viva la Mélenchon! It is so heartening to see the dialogue of the past 30 years seriously challenged.

        Agreed! 🙂
    • Colonial Viper 6.4

      100% tax on income above NZ $1 million. Now that’s sensible economic policy; super rich is just as bad for an economy as grinding poverty is.

      That’s just being silly.

      The old top US income tax rate of 91% was much more sensible.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.5

      Quoting article:

      Will rich people flee France, as his critics warn? “If they do, no problem. Bye bye,” he smiled.

      He reasons that if the top tier of French bosses left, their deputies would take over. Not to mention another Mélenchon proposal – now also taken up by Sarkozy himself – that any tax exile would have to pay the difference back to the French state. “So there’s no point leaving, because we’ll catch you. If they don’t pay, we’ll seize what they own.

      “Look, we have to smash this prejudice that the rich are useful just because they’re rich.”

      Exactly.

  7. Janice 7

    I don’t understand international economics so will someone please explain to me why we are doing this? New Zealand has already given about $100 million to the IMF to help bail out the failing Euro economies. I presume for New Zealand to get this money it was borrowed from overseas banks. Now the IMF wants more money from us to pay the debts that other Euro countries have run up with overseas banks. We will again have to borrow this money from the overseas banks for the IMF to pay to the overseas banks to cover the overspending Euro economies debts. If the banks need this money why don’t they just borrow from each other, or are they already doing that? Is this is what is known as “punching above our weight”?

    • Lanthanide 7.1

      The banks we would borrow the money from are not the same banks (governments) that need the bailing out.

      And yes, basically it is us taking on the cost of the debt to remain part of the club. The whole point of the IMF is that if we get into serious trouble we would be able to call on them for a bailout too (assuming the whole ponzi scheme hasn’t gone tits up at that point).

      So effectively borrowing money and paying interest on it is just the membership fee to belong to this club. Really it’s just like insurance for your national economy: pay some interest costs now, so that in the future if you need a bailout from the IMF they’ll come to the party.

      • ianmac 7.1.1

        Wasn’t it the IMF that insisted on collapsing the community health operation and the free education which had been operating in Vietnam after the Vietnam War? They said get rid of those things and we will set up schools and hospitals and arrange for hotels to be built so that education, health, tourism will bring prosperity to all. The result was private enterprise which took away community schools and health care and the hotels employed only foreign staff (except for the cleaners and gardeners) and profits were exported to foreign investors.

        • Lanthanide 7.1.1.1

          Yeah, I don’t know a whole lot about the IMF but I believe that in practice you really don’t want an IMF bailout because they put very strict measures on it.

          • bad12 7.1.1.1.1

            To give the IMF its due tho, they(the IMF)do an ongoing assessment of all the economy,s involved along with advice and warnings,

            As an interim report to the incoming National Government in 2009 the IMF directly recommended that the incoming Government consider ”Quatitative Easing” as an economic tool to manage its way through the worst of the negative effects of the 07/08 financial collapse,

            In its latest piece of advice to the Slippery Government the IMF warned against the Slippery Government making more cuts in Government employment as such would act as an anchor miring the economy in its current recession,

            We always read what the IMF has to say to Government with interest, and yes, despise the methodology of that organization when it(the IMF)is let loose in any country,s economy…

            • muzza 7.1.1.1.1.1

              “In its latest piece of advice to the Slippery Government the IMF warned against the Slippery Government making more cuts in Government employment as such would act as an anchor miring the economy in its current recession,”

              I know its like a bad joke, they issue statements against implementing actions of austerity, which the IMF themselves insist on should they be needed to loan back your own money you have fronted to them for the “membership fee” in the first place..See what is happening in Greece, what happned in Argentina and many others. We need to Kick them out, because as a sovereign nation, should we need a bloody loan, we print it ourselves without interest surely! Otherwise we are not sovereign!

              People need to read up on the history of the IMF, who are nothing more than the receivership arm of the global banking cartel!

              • bad12

                There you go, did it take long to reach that conclusion about Sovereignty,and the answer of course is that we aint,

                So as at early 2009 as per it’s(the IMF)interim report to the incoming National Government where they(the IMF)recommended just that, the printing of money via quantitive easing you, we and the IMF were all of the same opinion…

              • Vicky32

                People need to read up on the history of the IMF, who are nothing more than the receivership arm of the global banking cartel!

                Agreed again! Monti is part of the IMF, am I right? Unelected, he rules Italy. That truly sucks… My Italian friends are all so angry about it.

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.2

        The banks we would borrow the money from are not the same banks (governments) that need the bailing out.

        Not necessarily Lanth. Clarke and Dawe cover this off brilliantly. This is a capitalist ponzi scheme of lent, relent, hypthecated and rehypothecated funds.

  8. KeepOurAssetsDon'tSell. 8

    Most people will consider this alarmist and deliberate scare reporting. I don’t agree the Fukushima disaster just gets worse and worse. It’s enlightening to me that our MSM have completely dropped it round the World. What do you think about this article? Helen Caldicott is continuing to warn of the extreme dangers of nuclear power for the World.

    “It’s Not Over: Government Plans for the Worst: Forced Evacuation of Tokyo…”

    link: http://totalcollapse.com/2012/04/04/its-not-over-government-plans-for-the-worst-forced-evacuation-of-tokyo/

    While it has for the most part disappeared from mainstream view, the Fukushima nuclear disaster is anything but over. In fact, the situation in Japan has gone from bad to worse.

    Bottom line: There is no way to contain the radiation.

    Even more alarming is that the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and other agencies have warned that the nuclear storage pools (the containment units that are being used to cool the nuclear fuel) have been damaged and may collapse under their own weight.
    Such an event would cause widespread nuclear fallout throughout the region and force the government to evacuate the nearly 10 million residents of Tokyo and surrounding areas, a scenario which government emergency planners are now taking into serious consideration.

    Leading Japanese newspaper The Mainichi Daily News reports:

    One of the biggest issues that we face is the possibility that the spent nuclear fuel pool of the No. 4 reactor at the stricken Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant will collapse. This is something that experts from both within and outside Japan have pointed out since the massive quake struck. TEPCO, meanwhile, says that the situation is under control. However, not only independent experts, but also sources within the government say that it’s a grave concern.

    The storage pool in the No. 4 reactor building has a total of 1,535 fuel rods, or 460 tons of nuclear fuel, in it. The 7-story building itself has suffered great damage, with the storage pool barely intact on the building’s third and fourth floors. The roof has been blown away. If the storage pool breaks and runs dry, the nuclear fuel inside will overheat and explode, causing a massive amount of radioactive substances to spread over a wide area. Both the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and French nuclear energy company Areva have warned about this risk.

    ———————————————————————————————————-

    Another report:

    Fukushima Daiichi Site: Cesium-137 is 85 times greater than at Chernobyl Accident

    Link: http://akiomatsumura.com/2012/04/682.html

    “Japan’s former Ambassador to Switzerland, Mr. Mitsuhei Murata, ” says:
    “Ambassador Murata strongly stated that if the crippled building of reactor unit 4—with 1,535 fuel rods in the spent fuel pool 100 feet (30 meters) above the ground—collapses, not only will it cause a shutdown of all six reactors but will also affect the common spent fuel pool containing 6,375 fuel rods, located some 50 meters from reactor 4. In both cases the radioactive rods are not protected by a containment vessel; dangerously, they are open to the air. This would certainly cause a global catastrophe like we have never before experienced. He stressed that the responsibility of Japan to the rest of the world is immeasurable. Such a catastrophe would affect us all for centuries. Ambassador Murata informed us that the total numbers of the spent fuel rods at the Fukushima Daiichi site excluding the rods in the pressure vessel is 11,421 ”

    It is no exaggeration to say that the fate of Japan and the whole world depends on NO.4 reactor. This is confirmed by most reliable experts like Dr. Arnie Gundersen or Dr. Fumiaki Koide.

    Makes our Politics down here look rather minute in comparison to the huge disaster unfolding in the Northern Hemisphere which isn’t being reported by msm worldwide Why?

    • Bill 8.1

      …which isn’t being reported by msm worldwide Why?

      The only reason I see for Fukishima being dropped by msm, or them churning out pap pieces that peddle official ‘it’s all okay here’ lines, is that the nuclear lobby is very powerful, wants to expand and is able to spoon feed a fellow corporate and generally incurious msm.

      And we can’t have authorities (scientific, technical and political) being seen to be out of their depth either now, can we? There’s an unspoken yet almost audible order going down that basically runs as… “Retain the faith, lads… retain the faith”. So, no allusions to the quiet deep dread that must be haunting any of those directly involved in the technical/engineering aspects of Fukishima. And no taking of govenrment/industry announcements on what has happened or is likely to happen and ‘holding them up to the light’ of real world, factual and easily recoverable data.

      I occasionally visit Gunersen’s site http://www.fairewinds.com/ for info…knowledgable and informative. No scaremongering.

      I’m a bit surprised that a Japanese official has ‘broken ranks’ and signposted the unholy fucking roiling catastrophe that could eventuate if an aftershock collapsed ‘Unit 4’.

      (Ah, I should read things more carefully. He’s an ex ambassador.)

      • RedLogix 8.1.1

        So, no allusions to the quiet deep dread that must be haunting any of those directly involved in the technical/engineering aspects of Fukishima

        Knowledge lends no comfort.

        You can only handle this lethally dangerous spent fuel while it is submersed in water so that the neutrons are moderated, yet crucially all the equipment essential to handling it has been destroyed. Replacing this equipment is impossible because no-one can get near it.

        Remote robotics can only achieve so much, especially in such a rubble strewn, chaotic environment.

        A massive engineering challenge.

        • Bill 8.1.1.1

          Yeah, granted that knowledge is cold comfort or no comfort. But keeping people in the dark is fucking criminal. eg. Apparently 1/3 of a 1000 children tested have lumps in their thyroid. The government simply says it’s ‘monitoring the situation’. No biopsies. Nothing.

          And the pretence that ‘everything is under control’ ought to be dropped. There was and is no ‘cold shut down’ in spite of government/industry proclamations to that effect. The radiation effects are far worse than officially admitted. Radiation levels higher than admitted (they are only measuring and reporting on Gamma radiation). And then there’s the dumping radioactive waste in Tokyo Bay…

          Time lamp posts were brought back into fashion…,not for people trying their best…but for the dishonest bastards whose lies (official lines) are going to lead to unnecessary deaths. Lots of them.

          • RedLogix 8.1.1.1.1

            I didn’t mean to come across unconcerned. Quite the contrary; I’ve been following dear old Arnie from the outset and learnt a huge amount from him. And even then he’s just one man and doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth.

            What is alarming is just how few trustworthy voices there are out there. On one hand there are laughable alarmist nut-jobs and on the other there is the blatant cover-up by the industry and media.

            What to believe?

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Believe it or not, the best information I could get my hands on as the crisis developed was from nuclear physicists discussing it among themselves. It is hard to hide information from people armed with with intimate knowledge of reactor design and news-media and satellite photographs. They were confident that a melt-down was occurring long before any other source I saw at the time.

            • Bill 8.1.1.1.1.2

              Didn’t think you were unconcerned. Possibly misinterpreted the “knowledge lends no comfort” as meaning that since a lot of what’s happened/is happening is beyond our ken and control, that we might as well not know.

              On one hand there are laughable alarmist nut-jobs and on the other there is the blatant cover-up by the industry and media.

              What to believe?

              I don’t think it’s too difficult to decide who’s info should be treated with suspicion and so on. Nut-jobs are fairly easy to discern and to dismiss. Industry and government have *understandable* motives to play things down. Individuals within industry are somewhat gagged if they have an eye to an ongoing career. (Gunersen is the example they are meant to heed.)

              On the other hand, people doing research not immediately and obviously connected with Fukishima can throw up insights (I’m thinking of the tests performed on the car air filters for example). And, of course, ex-industry personnel can speak freely. True, some may be grinding axes, but the more the industry lambasts them, the more likely they are saying something industry would rather was not heard. (Gunersen is a good example again.)

              And once you’re satisfied with your ‘in’ to reasonable info, just follow the signposts they offer to other sources (and if those sources begin to seem questionable, then re-appraise your entry point)

            • muzza 8.1.1.1.1.3

              “What is alarming is just how few trustworthy voices there are out there. On one hand there are laughable alarmist nut-jobs and on the other there is the blatant cover-up by the industry and media. ”

              Alarmist nut jobs – RL I think you need to examine your use of derogitory name calling, because Fukishima has a high chance of becoming the worlds worst nuclear catastrophe, (if it isn’t already) which would put it at the top of historical global fuckups, with horrendous long term wide spread impacts!

              What to believe?” – Well obviously not those in charge of the operation or the media coverage seen, and now not really seen at all eh. Those people would seem to be the “nut jobs” you refer, handling the cover up!

              • Bill

                Too black and white Muzza. Just because someone offers something contrary to the ‘official line’, that doesn’t make what they are saying any more trustworthy than the official line.

                • muzza

                  Bill you hit on one of my favourite points, which is of course propaganda, missinformation and the like. My response might seem black and white Bill, we know that events sometimes appear too complex in nature, but in this instance we are talking about nuclear reactors, and the melting down of them, hence it becomes rather black and white. IT IS ALREADY BAD!

                  This is not political point scoring or the GOP primaries Bill this is a nuclear disaster!

                  Getting cute about degrees of information accuracy is not going to lessen the fact!

                  • Bill

                    There is a disaster (fact) surrounded by a lot of propaganda (industry and government), misinformation (nut-bars) and information.

                    And a lot of people in Japan deserve to be able to make informed decisions. Nothing cute about it.

                    • muzza

                      Bill I am curious about these nut bars you refer – Can you give some examples of the sort of info being spread around in regards to this nuclear disaster?

                      With regards to propaganda, not reporting information, or under-reporting is propaganda , you are aware of that right?

                      It is not just the people of Japan who need to know, the rest of the planet also Bill, and that includes little old sandpit news reporting NZ!

                      The default position of lying to the public at every turn , gives rise to speculation right, you know that too surely!

                      Nuclear eh, not really something to play games with!

  9. muzza 9

    Cashless society picking up pace again.

    Banking sector driving the tech firms which they are all major shareholders of, who would have thought eh. So when the chips are hacked and people keep losing their phones, what then I wonder!

    This should be just the answer to those pesky global financial crises we keep expereiencing. Cash, you needs it eh.
    Big banks must have worked out how they will replace the cash money laundering they already do using money from drug cartels etc, hmmm how will they replace that stream of liquidity once cash is gone I wonder…..

  10. joe90 10

    The shooting of a black teenager in the US has them crawling out of the woodwork.

    The Talk: Nonblack Version

    • Randle 11.1

      I stand corrected. As they eat grapes they would be legal to shoot in this case.

      • McFlock 11.1.1

        seriously?

        • Randle 11.1.1.1

          Yes.

          “Certain wildlife partially protected

          Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Act, when any injury or damage to any land or to any property on any land has arisen owing to the presence on the land of any wildlife for the time being specified in Schedule 2 hereto, the occupier of the land or any other person with the authority of the occupier may hunt or kill on the land any such wildlife, subject to any regulations for the time being in force under this Act:”

          http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1953/0031/latest/DLM277093.html#DLM277093

  11. Draco T Bastard 12

    Apple malware flourishes in a culture of denial

    Flashback’s success has been assisted by the culture of denial that — with Apple’s encouragement — exists in the Mac market. Most Mac users don’t use anti-virus software because they believe that their machines are impervious to malware. This outbreak could make the Apple ecosystem more secure by encouraging more Mac users to defend their systems.

    600k systems botted all because a lot of Mac users believe their machines are impervious to malware.

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