Open mike 07/05/2011

84 comments on “Open mike 07/05/2011 ”

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1. PeteG 1

   7 May 2011 at 7:01 am

   This comment by Joshua Hitchcock at Maori Law and Politics deserves more attention.

   One of the reasons why I started this site was to try, in even the smallest way, to move the political debate away from the right hate poor, left are communists diatribe that is too common in New Zealand politics. Fundamentally, I believe that everyone in politics, be they on the left or right, are sincere in seeking to improve the lot of everyone in society. Where they differ is the best approach to take.

   Too many people and parties get bogged down with petty point scoring and bitching and moaning. We should find a way of talking together and working together to find “the best approach to take”.
   • MrSmith 1.1

     7 May 2011 at 8:37 am

     So we should all just be quiet and behave ourselves, because our betters, the Nact’s know what’s right for us, Yeah Right!
     • PeteG 1.1.1

       7 May 2011 at 8:43 am

       You don’t understand what Joshua is getting at? Or you don’t want to know about it.
       • MrSmith 1.1.1.1

         7 May 2011 at 9:33 am

         “I believe that everyone in politics, be they on the left or right, are sincere in seeking to improve the lot of everyone in society.”

         peteG, if this Quote taken from you comment is what Joshua believes, then he is either lying or is a deluded fool.
         • PeteG 1.1.1.1.1

           7 May 2011 at 9:38 am

           I think that is a bit of naive wishful thinking, but most people probably are sincere in trying to improve things for everyone, even if they may err a bit in practice.
           • MrSmith 1.1.1.1.1.1

             7 May 2011 at 10:08 am

             So you don’t believe what you posted and you are telling us that you don’t mind lying to us when is suits you ends?

             Own goal there peteG.

             Gotta run .

             NO ASSET SALES
         • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.2

           7 May 2011 at 10:55 am

           In any event, the ACT party is not as extreme as many on the left like to make out.

           Considering this quote from the main article I’d tend to agree with you.
           • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.1.2.1

             7 May 2011 at 11:18 am

             See, that’s just the sort of place that sort of muddle headed thinking gets you to.

             ACT is extreme not because “many on the left” like to say they are. It’s because the overwhelming majority of the population don’t agree with their ideas. Their ideas are on the fringe of what the population thinks, ergo, extreme.

             When people start masturbating about ‘left’ and ‘right’ are meaningless, or how we all need to set aside our pointless bickering and accept the sensible truth, what they are doing is saying, put aside your disagreements!

             That’s not democratic; it’s bullshit.
             • M …

               7 May 2011 at 12:20 pm

               Yeah, if we’re good doggies we might just get thrown a bone.
       • Bill 1.1.1.2

         7 May 2011 at 10:01 am

         Pete G.

         In a representative system, certain people will seek to represent. And enjoy and protect the privileges that come with it. So they cleave to a political position or vehicle that might deliver them the ‘right’ to hold that they are the thoughts and words of those who vote for them and to instigate (with caveats) policies accordingly.

         Some may well have a more genuine motivation than others, but the result is the same; privilege and position. And over time, any successful platform will become controlled by less genuine or ‘pragmatic’ personages and any ‘uncomfortable’ aspects of the original political platform jettisoned.

         Uncomfortable aspects of a political platform might be broadly characterised as those that would dilute or challenge the efficacy of the platform to ‘perform’ in the context ( in our case) of an over arching market system.

         So, Labour Parties became steadily less aspirational and challenging until they dumped their socialist pretensions altogether in the name of pragmatism and sought to merely blunt the edges of neo liberalism.

         Green Parties throughout the world have also became became more ‘pragmatic’ in their desire to assume positions around the table of governance.

         The problem for them is that as they seem to develop more successful strategies for securing political power, they become increasingly distant from their support base. There then (inevitably) comes a time when the previously ‘taken for granted’ and frustrated support base puts their weight behind a nascent ‘more representative’ platform and they fade. And the dynamic of compromise and churn goes on.

         The crux of matter is that our representative system is subject to the market system rather than society; meaning that ‘legitimate’ solutions or programmes can only be those that adhere to market principles. (The source of the caveats mentioned above)

         If we are going to move beyond ‘left’ and ‘right’, then we have to move beyond the economics that births ‘left’ and ‘right’. And crucially, we need to develop democratic systems of governance in the stead of representative systems of governance.
   • ianmac 1.2

     7 May 2011 at 9:21 am

     That might work if you had politicians who were willing to discuss the best way forward. Do you think Mr I’m-rich-you’re-not-you-are-just-envious-eat-that-Key is in the least interested in finding a way to equity?
     • PeteG 1.2.1

       7 May 2011 at 9:29 am

       One of the most common criticisms of him is he is too middle of the road and won’t initiate much change. He’s a pragmatic compromiser, so I think your assessment is wrong.

       Key could have taken National and Act alone in coalition, but he chose to include the Maori Party. That has allowed him to find the best moderate way forward.

       Trying to paint Key as an extreme rich prick keeps backfiring because he comes across naturally as an ordinary sort of easy going bloke to most New Zealanders. There’s only a few that hate that.
       • ianmac 1.2.1.1

         7 May 2011 at 9:58 am

         He has himself used the “envy of the rich” line and he has said the poor lining up at food halls “made bad life-style choices” and he has refused to meet with examples of the struggling poor. I cannot believe that the people will continue to see him as “naturally as an ordinary sort of easy going bloke.” Sooner or later he will have to answer searching questions as PM.
         The issue that Carol has pointed to should throw daylight onto his Credibility V good bloke.
         PeteG. Do think that there is an issue over Jon Stephenson?
         • PeteG 1.2.1.1.1

           7 May 2011 at 10:30 am

           Do think that there is an issue over Jon Stephenson?

           Possibly but I don’t know anywhere near enough to make a judgement. There is weird stuff on both sides of the argument.

           Many people have and do “made bad life-style choices”, and it consigns some to being perpetually poor. It’s a sad fact of life. You can’t force people to budget well and eat well.

           I have made temporary bad lifestyle choices in the past but have learned from then and don’t need to line up at the food bank.
       • Bill 1.2.1.2

         7 May 2011 at 10:09 am

         Without the Maori Party, Key couldn’t have followed his ‘slowly, slowly catchy monkey’ strategy. ACT wouldn’t have countenanced it and the Nats would have been electoral toast by now as ACT would have compelled them to put the ‘peddle to the metal’.
       • MrSmith 1.2.1.3

         7 May 2011 at 10:10 am

         “Key could have taken National and Act alone in coalition, but he chose to include the Maori Party. That has allowed him to find the best moderate way forward.”

         More like, Key brought the Maori party for a few glass beads to make himself look Moderate.

         Gotta Run.

         NO ASSET SALES
       • rosy 1.2.1.4

         7 May 2011 at 10:14 am

         Key is not a pragmatic compromiser, he’s just biding his time. If you want an example of compromising your principles for ??? have a look at what happened to the Lib Dems in UK yesterday. People generally want a party to represent themselves, and themselves all have different priorities.
       • M 1.2.1.5

         7 May 2011 at 12:37 pm

         I don’t hate Key or envy his wealth because just by viewing him on the TV I think he’d be a crashing bore, too boring to hate.

         He has had the sort of life where all the necessary things required have been there when he’s needed them: support from the state when his mother was left a widow, free education, a wife who did not mind looking the other way while he made money gambling in the big boys’ casino no doubt aware for there to be big winners there must also be big winners and IMHO a lack of conscience. Because of all fortunate happenings this has allowed him to assume wrongly that life must be like this for everyone and if he can do it why not them conveniently forgetting it’s a numbers game and that not everyone can be a CEO with the big earnings and therefore few worries.

         Key’s affected blokiness is about as genuine as Jamie Oliver’s cockney accent.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.3

     7 May 2011 at 10:50 am

     Fundamentally, I believe that everyone in politics, be they on the left or right, are sincere in seeking to improve the lot of everyone in society.

     Unfortunately, that’s not true. There’s this group called psychopaths that really are in it only to transfer wealth from the many to themselves. They almost always (greater than 90%) vote to the right of the political spectrum and can often be found in the upper echelons of business and right leaning political parties.
     • Colonial Viper 1.3.1

       7 May 2011 at 11:01 am

       Yep those are the psychopaths. The *sociopaths* are the ones who can poison your cup of tea while maintaining an amiable smile and wave while you chat with them.
2. Carol 2

   7 May 2011 at 7:03 am

   So did our PM lie about what happened when journalist Jon Stephenson rang him? And was this “lie” an attempt to divert from the SAS in Afghanistan issue?

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1105/S00056/state-of-it-pms-shoot-the-messenger-attack-a-smokescreen.htm

   Scoop can confirm that the attack by the Prime Minister – along with statements made by Rhys Jones, the chief of defence force – will possibly be the subject of legal action. Stephenson today confirmed he is seeking legal advice in that regard.

   For the record: Jon Stephenson categorically rejects any suggestion that he impersonated 3News political editor Duncan Garner when Prime Minister Key returned his phone call. Stephenson says on answering, he identified himself immediately, and it seems he has a witness to that – notable political commentator Chris Trotter.

   Jon Stephenson also categorically rejects the Prime Minister’s claim that Stephenson contacted Key at 11pm. Stephenson says that statement is incorrect, and states his phone records can confirm this, as can Chris Trotter.

   Finally, Stephenson categorically rejects Prime Minister John Key’s claim that he hung up on Stephenson. Stephenson says they both had an amicable discussion that lasted for at least one minute – possibly two. He says there was no unpleasantry on either side. In fact, Stephenson says Key was “surprisingly friendly”.

   Scoop understands that some time later the Prime Minister’s press secretary Kevin Taylor filed a formal complaint with the Sunday Star-Times about the call where various allegations were made. The complaint – which Stephenson says was the first he had had as a journalist in more than a decade – was dismissed.
   • ianmac 2.1

     7 May 2011 at 9:24 am

     Wow. Does this mean that Mr Key our Prime Minister lied? Surely not. And fancy Stuff printing that. Do you think that MSM will go with that? Surely not. (Irony.) This is a very important story Carol.
     • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

       7 May 2011 at 11:04 am

       Extremely interesting that Captain Panic Pants on Fire seems to be making a hash of things. Where is the pressure coming from? These can’t just be unforced errors, the PM’s office is worried about something serious – but what? And is it something specific, or is it just anxiety about a whole lot of things lumped together (the reappearance of Brash being one).
   • Jum 2.2

     7 May 2011 at 3:27 pm

     Carol,

     Interesting that Key is using the late night call story again, just as he did with Mayor Williams in the Auckland Council Mayoralty. The lie worked for Key back then in sullying Williams in the press. Now the media are trying to show they are slightly objective by reporting Stephenson’s proof of Key’s lie. They had to; there was a witness.

     What a 100% corrupt creep and liar JKeyll is.
3. mikesh 3

   7 May 2011 at 9:12 am

   “Fundamentally, I believe that everyone in politics, be they on the left or right, are sincere in seeking to improve the lot of everyone in society.”

   Usually, improving the lot of one group disadvantages another group, and vice versa. Which of course is why we have politics in the first place
   • PeteG 3.1

     7 May 2011 at 9:22 am

     But it needn’t be a battle of opposites, it could be debate on the best balance.
     • Pascal's bookie 3.1.1

       7 May 2011 at 10:43 am

       Who says that’s what it isn’t?

       Maybe people genuinely disagree about what the best balance is, and their desire to to the best for the country means that they will fight to do what they think is best. Crazy I know.
     • Colonial Viper 3.1.2

       7 May 2011 at 11:07 am

       The best balance is that the majority of people with less money, less assets, less influence, and less likelihood of voting, should be increasingly disadvantaged (since they generally don’t matter in the long run anyways) to give me and my mates extra income and investment capital, and also more of my taxes back.

       Also please zone housing such that none of them can afford to live in the areas near where I am.

       That is clearly the best balance, without a doubt.
4. ianmac 4

   7 May 2011 at 9:29 am

   Mr Key said that “the world will be a better place without bin Laden.”
   The question for our PM should be,

   “Do you approve of the action taken by the USA in entering another country without approval, and carrying out an extra-judicial killing of a foreign national?”

   The point of the question would be to better understand his philosophy and where NZ stands, and connects with Carol’s post.
5. chris73 5

   7 May 2011 at 10:04 am

   http://www.politicalcompass.org/

   Your political compass
   Economic Left/Right: -5.12
   Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.26

   Um this test is flawed
   • Pascal's bookie 5.1

     7 May 2011 at 10:41 am

     Alternatively, your self image does not align with reality.
     • chris73 5.1.1

       7 May 2011 at 11:48 am

       Well to be fair thats probably true of most people
   • ianmac 5.2

     7 May 2011 at 11:26 am

     Tried that: L/R 7.38
     Soc.Lib/Authoritarian 5.44
     Goodness I’m nearly holding hands with Ghandi. “How’s it going mate?”
   • Draco T Bastard 5.3

     7 May 2011 at 12:52 pm

     It’s not the most accurate (it’s too simple) of tests but I don’t think it’s flawed as such.

     Here’s mine
     Economic Left/Right: -10.00
     Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77
     • lprent 5.3.1

       7 May 2011 at 1:06 pm

       Mine
       Economic -2.88
       Social -4.00

       Slightly south and left of a US centre. In NZ terms a dry centrist.

       No real surprises there.
     • Colonial Viper 5.3.2

       7 May 2011 at 1:07 pm

       http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7.75&soc=-3.90

       Economics = -7.75 Left
       Societal = -3.90 Libertarian

       Yep that’s mine.

       Not too surprising DTB, I’m not quite as left nor as socially libertarian as you.
   • lprent 5.4

     7 May 2011 at 1:09 pm

     US base. A average member of labour here would be regarded as a national threat there. Ask most Canadians..
6. joe90 6

   7 May 2011 at 11:15 am

   Oh dear..
   • ianmac 6.1

     7 May 2011 at 11:29 am

     For God’s sake! Surely not. Hoots!
   • M 6.2

     7 May 2011 at 12:59 pm

     This is my favourite:

     here

     [lprent: that was a really messy link]
   • Jum 6.3

     7 May 2011 at 3:33 pm

     Joe90,

     I hate to upset your innocent thinking here but in America the porn market is as big as the church market so no doubt both markets are ‘coming together’ to save on advertising…
7. Penny Bright 7

   7 May 2011 at 11:38 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10723958

   (I have posted essentially the same post on Kiwiblog – FYI )

   I agree with the Supreme Court decision regarding the Valerie Morse ‘flag-burning’ on ANZAC Day.

   Where are all the ACT Party members and Libertarians coming out in support of the Supreme Court decision?

   If not – why not?

   Those who disagree with this Supreme Court decision might like to consider how deep is their commitment to ‘freedom of expression’ and ‘peaceful protest’?

   Those who disagree might like to consider how genuine is their commitment to the ‘democracy’ that those who died in these wars commemorated on ANZAC Day were supposedly defending?

   Those who disagree might also care to remember what crimes against humanity have been committed under the guise of ‘flag-waving nationalism’?

   That some people are totally opposed to war – which is the underpinning cause of why the soldiers whose sacrifices are being remembered – died in the first place?

   That if those soldiers died for ‘democracy’ – which includes the right to ‘freedom of expression’ and ‘peaceful protest’ – then what greater respect can be shown for those rights, than respect for others who are exercising those rights, and expressing a view, including burning a flag, that some might consider ‘offensive’?
   _________________________________

   If you don’t know your rights – you don’t have any.
   If you don’t defend the rights you are supposed to have – you lose them.

   http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

   UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS 1948:

   PREAMBLE

   Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

   Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

   Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

   …………………………….

   Article 19. (Universal Declaration of Human Rights)

   Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

   New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 14. Freedom of expression

   —Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek,receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.

   Article 20 (Universal Declaration of Human Rights)

   1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

   2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

   ________________________________________________________________________________
   New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 16. Freedom of peaceful assembly

   —Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly.

   _____________________________________________________________________________

   Penny Bright
   http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
8. Pascal's bookie 8

   7 May 2011 at 11:39 am

   Wow.

   Reframing for experts.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXpOA3jPC04

   This guy.

   In Minnesota conservatives are trying to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage. Go watch how democratic Party Representative Steve Simon speaks to it.

   Brilliant.
   • lprent 8.1

     7 May 2011 at 1:14 pm

     It sure was. Excellent point as well.
   • Colonial Viper 8.2

     7 May 2011 at 1:14 pm

     Awesome.

     There are very smart, very good people in the US still.
   • ianmac 8.3

     7 May 2011 at 3:23 pm

     Took me a moment to figure that he was speaking agin the motion. If <40% of Americans believe in the Evolutionary process does it surprise that maybe those same people would pass an Act banning homosexuality?
9. M 9

   7 May 2011 at 1:01 pm

   Update on nuke fallout:

   http://www.vesica.org/main/holistic-health/articles/1162-radiation-update-april-2011
   • ZeeBop 9.1

     7 May 2011 at 2:38 pm

     Its important to remember that we need nuclear weapons to defend ourselves against the hated human race who at any time may declare war, and so we must keep a gun to its head least it get any ideas. Thus we have been told that nuclear is the future of power and so subsidies were necessary both for military applications and for the future. Yes, you are doing you bit for future wars that will annihilate us all. The big industrialists also like the central planned and privately controlled power networks with guaranteed demand for their electricity product. All they had to do was take money from the government, and they’d be made for life.

     But of course it hasn’t turned out like that. Little real science has been done into non-big nuclear energy, and reducing energy use has never been that profitable while an Arab elite sell the stuff to cheap for too long, so what’s a Human race to do? Well its like the chemical revolution that leads to worldwide drop in sperm count, live with it, accept it, create a narrative that squares it away.

     Welcome to plutonium in your burger.
   • ianmac 9.2

     7 May 2011 at 3:27 pm

     “Using atmospheric nuclear testing done in the 1950s and 1960s that created widespread fallout and radiation-related diseases as comparison, CTBTO reports that
     the levels detected at stations outside Japan up until April 7 have been far below levels that could cause harm to humans and the environment. ”
     Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305490#ixzz1LdKlIiPV
     So detected but not yet nearly as damaging as those atmospheric tests.
10. joe90 10

    7 May 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Birthers have made way for the deathers.
    • ianmac 10.1

      7 May 2011 at 3:30 pm

      “Where is the body?” Jones asked in another show. “My White House sources nine years ago, on record, confirmed that he had been killed and was frozen on ice.”
      and apparently thawed out now for publicity purposes.
11. PeteG 11

    7 May 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Missed this one…

    Last week’s Sunday Star Times had a chilling quote –
    ” Rotorua resident RangiMarie Bosma said she registered because Harawira was willing to challenge the government for change.
    “We just want to be housed, clothed, fed, basically looked after. That’s what we’re fighting for.”

    Fighting” for someone else to fight the government to give them a cruisy standard of living on a plate. Sad. “
    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      7 May 2011 at 3:47 pm

      Fighting” for someone else to fight the government to give them a cruisy standard of living on a plate. Sad. “

      You’re clearly an asshole of the variety which thinks “Food banks are a lifestyle choice”

      Notice when Bosma said she thought it was a right for NZ’ers to be housed, clothed, etc. you can guess that she probably didn’t mean DKNY, Country Road or any other “cruisy standard” lifestyle options – those are reserved for the wealthy, right?
12. Jum 12

    7 May 2011 at 3:14 pm

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1105/S00094/hide-blames-media.htm

    “It actually involves the government keeping us safe from the thugs and the bullies, and I don’t resile from any of that.”

    Hide is that bully; Hide is that thug. The Auckland takeover and the privatisation legislation that threw out the 75% required for Aucklanders to agree to sell the Ports of Auckland estate (huge amounts of land and buildings and future business income), that Hide the thug and bully wants to give to his and Key’s mates, is a perfect example.

    I’m surprised that Hide doesn’t want 4 bovver boys too, to save him from the wrath of the people (who don’t actually know they are wrathful; Basher/Crusher Collins forgot to instruct them) that Key is being a jelly over.

    It does make me laugh that all the misogynists and those who just wanted a change voted in a he-man but ended up with a hee-haw. It’s giving me an insight into a short man who wants to control and thinks he can with money and pm power but just comes off looking sad and needing v. to prop up his sadly declining mana. ( I knew he never had any but sooner or later everyone else will. I just hope we’re not too late. This year is crucial; remember Matthew Hooten’s spine chilling voice from the dustbin of ethics; just get back in again Key and then you can do what you really wanted to.)
13. todd 13

    7 May 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Time to Cut Private Sector Benefits

    http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/05/time-to-cut-private-sector-benefits.html

    The Nation on TV3 today had Switzerland born and Africa raised reporter Narelle Suisted repeatedly saying that the unemployed choose not to work because of a lifestyle choice. What a load of rubbish! Show me one beneficiary that has turned down a good job that pays more than the dole Narelle? This echos the Prime Minister’s contentious statement that beneficiaries go to food banks because of their own poor choices;
    • PeteG 13.1

      7 May 2011 at 3:32 pm

      …the unemployed choose not to work because of a lifestyle choice.
      Show me one beneficiary that has turned down a good job that pays more than the dole Narelle?
      Choosing the dole over a paid job is, well, it’s a choice isn’t it? The dole isn’t supposed to be a choice, it’s supposed to help get by on until you can find a job.

      And any job can be a help – it’s easier to get better paying jobs, work up the ladder a bit, if you have a work record. That’s a simple fact of employment.

      I have chosen to work for less than the dole at times.
      • Jum 13.1.1

        7 May 2011 at 3:40 pm

        PeteG
        I’ve chosen to work for nothing; what’s your point? I chose to work/volunteer for nothing because I had other means. These other people don’t.
      • Colonial Viper 13.1.2

        7 May 2011 at 3:50 pm

        Work up the ladder a bit?

        You’re fucking dreaming. Better to go to Australia and seek one of the 500,000 new jobs they are producing over there than work grovelling in a society which truly believes that low wages are an advantage.

        (Advantage for whom? Oh yeah, advantage for the owners of capital).

        Hey good on you for choosing to work for less than the dole, what did you feed your children or pay your mortgage with? **guffaw**
        • todd 13.1.2.1

          7 May 2011 at 4:21 pm

          Couldn’t agree more Colonial Viper and Jum. It is abhorrent that beneficiaries are being blamed for not working when there are not enough jobs for them to be employed in. National has created more unemployment, while trying to blame the victims. It seems rather conceited when a millionaire tells a poor person it’s their own fault they have to beg. Next they’ll be saying that the poor shouldn’t have children… Oops! Too late.
      • MrSmith 13.1.3

        7 May 2011 at 10:39 pm

        This is your lunch time fill in peteG? I think they are english not sure about the sex.
    • Jum 13.2

      7 May 2011 at 3:59 pm

      Yes, Todd, I thought exactly the same as you when I heard this plonker.

      Switzerland – hid money from NAZIs
      Africa – people stolen for slave trade; country ravaged by aids and transnational destructive economic habits.

      Interesting combination in a person now in NZ and speaking for the right. I am always interested to hear why people choose to come to New Zealand. Was it a choice or was he a refugee? How long has he been here? What does he want from New Zealanders? Does he want to change something about New Zealand or New Zealanders that we don’t want to change? If he does want change yet chose to come here because he liked New Zealand as it was, then why is he trying to change it? This is New Zealand not Switzfrica.

      It will change by itself, hopefully not through the destructive machinations of Key and the NZ Business Rotundtable, Joyce and Brash, the hollow men circa 2002-11. Of course the Rotunds have been working their neo-nastiness many decades before this. Key is an acolyte, conceived in NZ, and micromeshed in the caves of Mordor – I think that’s somewhere near Washington USA.

      I hope this man is not like an individual who came to live in my district and after a year wanted the power trustees to sell off the shares from which we received a lovely Christmas bonus of zero power bills. Wow! It could have been the same guy. Who knows.
      • todd 13.2.1

        7 May 2011 at 4:53 pm

        Narelle Suisted is female, although the National driven “fuck the poor” attitude is confusing. The right-wing being dominated by old white men and all. It might be that the Natz are headhunting people like her as the public tend to believe a pretty face, even if it is spouting bullshit! It’s a shame that the hollow men’s sickness is catching. Let’s hope that the likes of the Greens and Labour offer a panacea before we have an epidemic.
    • Tiger Mountain 13.3

      7 May 2011 at 4:31 pm

      Shoddy and dishonest alright, unsubstantiated bullshit by the taxpayer funded TV3. She apparently did not interview even one of these alleged ‘lifestylers’, not even engaging heresay, only ‘my say’ and found time to have on camera well known tory FNDC Mayor Wayne Brown. Even Phil O’Reily sounded moderate after this bilious fact lite smear on the North.
    • Colonial Viper 13.4

      7 May 2011 at 7:01 pm

      Narelle Suisted = one of the privileged class b*yarches who has no idea of the miserable poverty entrenched lives that hundreds of thousands of NZ’ers live as part of their “lifestyle choices”.

      Interestingly, I bet she knows lots of classmates who are struggling to get decent work in NZ – but she has already abandoned them.
14. the pink postman 14

    7 May 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Now Phil Goff and Key are speaking at the Grey Power conference today in Hamilton. I just wonder who will get all the TV and media time.
    I have no doubt who , so where is the equalty ?
15. Colonial Viper 15

    7 May 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Excellent “Beyond Stereotypes” Australian Welfare report”

    http://acoss.org.au/images/uploads/beyond_stereotypes.pdf

    It shows that the myths that the right wing (and PeteG) perpetrates about welfare and welfare recipients needs to be broken once and for all so that real help can be given to the people who need it.

    And of course, the best way for getting people off the benefit? Good jobs earning good pay. At least $16/hr IMO.
    • rosy 15.1

      7 May 2011 at 4:49 pm

      Graph p6 – Of the OECD countries NZ had the third lowest percentage of population reliant on income support (2004).
    • todd 15.2

      7 May 2011 at 5:24 pm

      I think most of that Australian report can give insights into the New Zealand dynamic. However one of the major contrasting factors is:

      As unemployment has fallen, the profile of income support recipients has changed. Most people who are ready for employment and have the skills required by employers can now get a job quickly.

      The New Zealand equivalent would be something like:

      After incurring a large student loan and being ready to work, the unemployed person cannot find a job in New Zealand and moves to Australia.

      or

      After undertaking rehabilitation and being ready to work again, the sickness beneficiary was no longer eligible for a benefit because they did not consent to sterility treatment and joined the Mongrel Mob to undertake a life of crime.

      or

      After searching for a job for two years, the unemployed person got fed up with being demoralised by WINZ and started manufacturing P so they could afford a deposit on a house.
16. Armchair Critic 16

    7 May 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Is the search function working yet? If no, let it be soon, please.
    • lprent 16.1

      8 May 2011 at 5:12 pm

      Fixed. Goes across to the US server so the indexing only runs on a single system.
17. prism 17

    7 May 2011 at 7:50 pm

    It is so tempting to get involved in arguments about personalities and styles of pollies. What about policies? When do these get the same passion and interest from those on this blog. Not often, and not many.

    I was listening tonight to a repeat of the interview on Radio NZ with USA retired Judge He made the comment that many of the USA sentences are not serving the interests of justice. I take that to mean that retributive and punitive people have taken control of the justice system and want to impose the most ‘heinous’ punishment available to them. We are following in their footsteps because we are a bunch of simple followers of the Big Important English-speaking Countries at the executive level anyway..

    In NZ we should be calling for lesser prison sentences but instead our system is separate from all the scrutiny and overview of government dealings to try and achieve savings and more efficiency. Why can’t we turn around the punitive thing for prisoners who aren’t psychopaths? Provide them with immediate help and training and thinking sessions in philosphy etc. New ideas, wow! Many of them haven’t thought outside of the square they were born and raised in and the weight of the negative attitudes and the defeating peer control has left them without any idea of an alternative way. Let them out after training on a prove yourself or you are in again policy. Try something new. Make the word innovative not punitive and not make people’s badness, foolishness and misery a profit centre for private enterprise.
18. Jum 18

    7 May 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Prism

    Good post.
19. prism 19

    7 May 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Thanks Jum it’s good to know that someone reads mine sometimes.
20. Jum 20

    7 May 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Aww shucks, Prism…..

    Anyway, back to the struggle.

    Does anyone know where Graeme Hart keeps his money?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1105/S00254/carter-holt-paper-assets-up-for-sale-reuters-reports.htm
21. PeteG 21

    7 May 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Goff says Govt has no long-term plan to sort out the economy

    But Goff doesn’t even have a short term plan – ah, maybe there’s a simple explanation for that.
    • MrSmith 21.1

      7 May 2011 at 9:46 pm

      Simple explanations seem to be your specialty peteG, so maybe you can enlighten us oh great one.
    • Draco T Bastard 21.2

      7 May 2011 at 10:09 pm

      That’s incorrect. The government does have a long term plan for the economy – hand it all to themselves and their rich mates. It’s the same as their short term plan.

      Goff, and Labour, do seem to have been working on something but are keeping it quiet.
      • Jim Nald 21.2.1

        7 May 2011 at 11:04 pm

        with another donkey administration, they will continue their unfinished business of selling the country

        give them another term and we’re finished
22. prism 22

    7 May 2011 at 8:33 pm

    I wonder where Graeme Hart and his ilk get the finances to buy these leveraged buy-outs as I presume this was? Local banks or tax havens from the Bahamas, Cayman Islands etc. These speculators have been able to buy corporations in the same feckless way that private individuals have been able to use leverage to buy housing they otherwise wouldn’t have been advanced credit for.
    • rosy 22.1

      7 May 2011 at 9:03 pm

      Or borrowing against future earnings? If the profits slip then they can’t meet the payment so have to sell… I wonder if that’s what happened here?
23. Armchair Critic 23

    7 May 2011 at 9:00 pm

    For anyone who is interested in peak oil etc. there has been some very interesting discussion on this post over at Auckland Transport Blog.
24. rosy 24

    8 May 2011 at 2:14 am

    another innocent to pay the price?

    Kenyan security officials have deployed armed security offices in the home of Mama Sarah Obama, the paternal grandmother of US president Barak Obama, in Kogelo, western Kenya.

    According to the Kenyan security authorities, the heightened security is in response to threats made earlier this week by al-Shabaab, an al Qaida-linked insurgent group that is fighting to overthrow Somalia’s UN-backed government in Mogadishu, over the killing of Osama bin Laden.
25. North 25

    8 May 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Another National Party “let’s frighten the public” to cut costs lie: Stephen Joyce announces that there has been fraudulent use of the Gold Card.

    TVNZ assists with a hidden camera but makes no estimate of how frequent it might be. Doesn’t even ask Joyce about that.

    Next thing Gold Card will be canned ? Because of unspecified level of fraud ? God, NZ media is piss limp in the main !

    Despicable in fact.

Links to post

1. Beyond the welfare stereotypes « The Standard: posted on 9 May 2011 at 7:06 am

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