Open Mike 07/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 7th, 2017 - 174 comments
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174 comments on “Open Mike 07/09/2017”

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  1. John up North 1
    7 September 2017 at 6:29 am

    Despite the team of experts putting it straight that Joyce n Billshit have told utter falsehoods re- fiscal hole. The RNZ webpage continues to use a title which still gives the lie oxygen

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/338839/fiscal-hole-hit-the-havoc-button

    And in my opinion she’s very soft on Joyce in just calling him intemperate, rather than a liar intent on misleading the public. Going on about the “Havoc Claim” as it’s called in political science…… bullshit! even the political scientist call shit like this what it is – Dirty Politics!!

    • Tony Veitch (not etc) 1.1
      7 September 2017 at 6:38 am

      Straight out of the Dr. Joseph Goebbels manual:

      “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”

    • Carolyn_nth 1.2
      7 September 2017 at 6:38 am

      Oh. Snap. There were no comments on open mike when I started on my comment below on the same OP.

      I don’t think she needs to be tougher on Joyce, he is already looking like damaged goods, and Hawyward’s explanation comes across as calm and rational, rather than adding to the Joyce-style hysteria.

      • John up North 1.2.1
        7 September 2017 at 9:31 am

        Nah, Joyce is the type of person that needs a good kicking before he learns stuff right proper in his ed.

        • lurgee 1.2.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 5:33 pm

          Joyce is the type of person that needs a good kicking

          Would we be okay with this being said about a female politician?

          Just asking, like.

          • John up North 1.2.1.1.1
            7 September 2017 at 9:27 pm

            Apologies I was of course speaking metaphorically, as it seems he keeps on banging on with his lies. Bit like a child with chocolate covered face adamantly telling mummy he didn’t eat the cake, HONEST!!

            Besides, if someone with a penchant for violence were to kick Dildo Joyce in the head, his demonstration of his thickness would mean the kicker more likely to end up with a damaged foot.

            • lurgee 1.2.1.1.1.1
              7 September 2017 at 9:30 pm

              Respect for owning your slip up. We all veer into inappropriate language from time to time, and should always be ready to be pulled up on it.

    • tc 1.3
      7 September 2017 at 6:40 am

      Controlling the message via their control over RNZ, wouldn’t hurt labour to attack IMO Joyce and Blinglish have burnt a lot of capital over this.

      Frame it as general dishonesty with other examples to depower the numbers meme into more general lying behaviour to get people realising this is what they are, lying deceptive wreckers.

    • Bob 1.4
      7 September 2017 at 9:49 am

      That’s all they know at this stage, it’s called fear mongering, creating doubt in the voters mind.
      They really are desperate !! But the sheep will follow sadly

  2. Sanctuary 2
    7 September 2017 at 6:33 am

    I know in democratic countries you are not supposed to put ex politicians on trial, but I’d happily make an exception for Richard Prebble. What a traitor to the left.

  3. Carolyn_nth 3
    7 September 2017 at 6:36 am

    Bronwyn Hayward is a political academic the mainstream media needs to use more for political analysis. Posted on RNZ last night, she explains the way Steven Joyce used the “havoc claim” gambit in his false allegations of an 11 billion dollar hole in the NZLP budget.

    This is a claim that is designed to be so outrageous that it grabs media headlines and temporarily derails opponents, attracting startled media attention in a 24/7 news cycle and confusing voters.

    By the time the dust has settled and everyone has read the fine print, it doesn’t matter that the claim didn’t stack up, because from a political strategist’s point of view, the issue was never really about the facts.

    The aim was to take the air space from a leading opponent and to sow a seed of doubt in the minds of voters, and hopefully do just enough damage to your opponent that you can sway small but significant margins of voters choosing between parties.

    Hayward says this gambit can undermine democracy and turn off potential voters. However, it can, as in the Joyce instance, blow back on the user of the havoc claim, and damage their vote. This happened because Ardern called it out pretty quickly in the leaders debate, and because many economists and mainstream media journalists critiqued the false claim strongly.

    Furthermore, Hayward estimates that NZers have become more savvy about political false claims having watched overseas elections, such as in the US.

    • CoroDale 3.1
      7 September 2017 at 6:45 am

      Well said – my guess is that the Nats want a term in Opposition, hoping that the next Govt will force the Greens and NZF to work together – could be fun

      • CoroDale 3.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 7:18 am

        Oh, I expect Joyce will be correct in hind-sight, as the Banking Cartel and International Rating Agencies smash the NZD (floating international lending rate) under a Labour lead Govt.

        • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 8:46 am

          Of course – it’s not as if rating agencies haven’t recognized Bill’s fiscal genius – with downgrades.

        • Pat 3.1.1.2
          7 September 2017 at 9:45 am

          the dollar will likely fall (but not necessarily crash as it is likely to do under a continuation of the current settings) mainly due to a reigning in of immigration and investment restrictions as stated by Labour….and that will be great for our exporters. The RBNZ has been bemoaning the dollars strength for years and even told Key to put the brakes on immigration to stop the upward pressure…Key of course knew better.

        • tracey 3.1.1.3
          7 September 2017 at 12:28 pm

          Isnt a lower NZD great for exporters and shite for importers and kiwis spending their tax cuts on overseas holidays? Pardon me while I weep

    • tracey 3.2
      7 September 2017 at 7:16 am

      God, I hope so.

  4. CoroDale 4
    7 September 2017 at 6:41 am

    Let No Flower of the Spring Pass by Us – Wisdom of Solomon 2:1-24

    (Bible quote for the day – but respect for the Bolshevik right to atheism)

    • DSpare 4.1
      7 September 2017 at 8:52 am

      Atheism predated Bolshevism by centuries (even millennia depending on your definition of the term):

      Honeste vivere, neminem laedere, suum cuique tribuere

      Knutzen after Ulpian

  5. Descendant Of Sssmith 5
    7 September 2017 at 6:59 am

    Capitalist’s response to a crisis:

    “Prices for flights out of South Florida have skyrocketed as high as more than US$3000 (NZ$4166) per person for domestic flights, which would otherwise cost a fraction of the price during what’s typically one of the slowest times of the year for air travel.”

    We see the same response to housing, Christchurch’s earthquake, and so on.

    Where there’s a buck to be made!

      • tracey 6.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 7:20 am

        Another Disability meeting Wagner couldnt be bothered with and Act didnt bother eitber. Speaks volumes.

        • DSpare 6.1.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 9:00 am

          Carolyn_nth
          Both those links take me to the same Newsroom post (which I hadn’t seen – so thanks for that). Was there a second piece to which you were trying to link as well?

    • The Chairman 6.2
      7 September 2017 at 10:07 am

      “Robertson was less clear than Mathers in his initial answer on whether Labour would increase the rate of supported living payments, but when pressed for a ‘yes or no’ answer by moderator Susie Ferguson, said: ‘Yes.'”

      Disappointing (and far less convincing) that he had to be “pressed” for an answer.

      Moreover, unlike the Greens, Labour didn’t commit to an amount.

      We have a chance to choose better, and clearly the Greens are the better choice.

    • Bill 6.3
      7 September 2017 at 12:10 pm

      Paigon is my newly discovered word/term of today. Seems appropriate to introduce it here.

    • Antoine 6.4
      7 September 2017 at 12:35 pm

      This is great, fantastic news.

      So then the next things it would be nice to know are:
      – who would be the Minister for Social Development in a Labour-led government?
      – how would they fix the culture at WINZ?
      – what relevant experience have they got in effecting cultural change?
      – is there budget for it?

      A.

      • Antoine 6.4.1
        7 September 2017 at 1:04 pm

        PS I’m not trolling, I honestly want to know what the plan is!

        • McFlock 6.4.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 1:17 pm

          I think most of that is dependent on the size of Labour’s coalition partner and which party it is.

          The culture change wouldn’t necessarily need a budget – issue the directives and the staff must follow.

          NZ1 would, I suspect, be focussed on the very young and very old, so would maybe have associate ministers in those areas.

          Greens have more of a holistic approach, so might be wanting the top slot.

          Carmel Sepuloni is the Social Development go-to for Labour. Seems to be pretty good.

          • Antoine 6.4.1.1.1
            7 September 2017 at 1:56 pm

            > The culture change wouldn’t necessarily need a budget

            I don’t want to make this all about money, but I think it is going to cost more, if only because more beneficiaries will get their proper entitlements. But also I think some turnover of personnel will be needed and that is going to come at a cost (golden handshakes, recruitment costs, etc).

            > – issue the directives and the staff must follow.

            That’s not how life works, you can’t change workplace culture by saying ‘I now direct that everyone behave differently’.

            I don’t know what the Nats (and previous Govts did) to stuff up the culture at WINZ so comprehensively but I think it’s going to take a lot of work and time to reverse that. Inspirational leadership will be necessary but not sufficient.

            > Carmel Sepuloni is the Social Development go-to for Labour. Seems to be pretty good.

            Never been a Minister let alone a Cabinet Minister, never been a senior manager in any form of organisation, never led a culture change project as far as I can see, I have no confidence that she can do the business.

            A.

            • Pat 6.4.1.1.1.1
              7 September 2017 at 2:00 pm

              “….never been a senior manager in any form of organisation, never led a culture change project as far as I can see, I have no confidence that she can do the business.”

              Anne Tolley, Paula Bennet, Gerry Brownlee…shall I continue?

              • Antoine …
                7 September 2017 at 2:04 pm

                Right, they lacked management experience when they entered Parliament, they couldn’t fix the culture at WINZ even if they wanted to which they don’t, nor (I fear) can Sepuloni.

                A.

                • McFlock …
                  7 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

                  If someone else failed to do a job they didn’t want to do, does that mean it is a particularly difficult job?

                • Pat …
                  7 September 2017 at 2:38 pm

                  The Minister isn’t involved in the hands on implementation of a culture change (though are ultimately responsible)….that is the CEOs role.

            • McFlock 6.4.1.1.1.2
              7 September 2017 at 2:19 pm

              Turnover would only be needed in the case of misconduct. And if people end up getting more money, this isn’t a bad thing. If there’s a blowout, it can be handled.

              And actually, you can change workplace culture by making reasonable changes to workplace expectations. And if a few folks don’t play along, give them fair opportunity to do their jobs, then go through the disciplinary process.

              As for Sepuloni, does CEO of Vaka Tautua count? Google it.
              edit: I did it for you

            • tracey 6.4.1.1.1.3
              7 September 2017 at 2:32 pm

              Turnover may only be at the very top. The workers want to be compassionate, most people go into those jobs because of that, not the pay scale. Currently KPI’s encourage meaness. That change will cost nothing.

            • tracey 6.4.1.1.1.4
              7 September 2017 at 2:34 pm

              Everyone currently in a cabinet position had never done it before 2008 and many had not done anything meaningful in this line in their businesses.

              Ministers are more akin to a Director than a CEO. And even CEO’s are not in charge of operations as a rule. You are talking about operations. They hire people for this, they do not do it themselves. .

            • Ma Rohemo 6.4.1.1.1.5
              7 September 2017 at 2:59 pm

              I was subjected to the change from Labour to National management as a ‘Client’. The WINZ staff certainly changed their attitude.

              “Bully from the top on down the line” is how the change was applied. That and negative PR about bennies. Some of the better staff left. The new style upset them. Others stayed and thrived with the bullying style.

              • Antoine …
                7 September 2017 at 3:03 pm

                > Some of the better staff left. The new style upset them. Others stayed and thrived with the bullying style.

                Interesting. That reinforces for me that there is going to need to be some staff changes

                A.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  7 September 2017 at 6:16 pm

                  The secret diary of Antoine:

                  I was going to have breakfast but getting out of bed seems an insurmountable hurdle. Then I needed to go to the toilet but it’s such a long walk.

                  So I lay there thinking and then I realised that thinking might mean I have to make an effort to do something.

                  And then I shat myself, and lay there in my own mess for a while because taking personal responsibility was just too much effort. Then I realised the world is full of people making a difference. Don’t they realise how pointless it is?

                  Now I need to go to the toilet again. What am I going to do?

                  • McFlock …
                    7 September 2017 at 6:23 pm

                    heh.
                    continued:

                    […]
                    It’s not even as if there’s a clear plan for breakfast, anyway. I mean, I know that there are some eggs, some bacon, some baked beans, and so on in the kitchen. But what about a frying pan?

                    What if the frying pan needs to be scrubbed? Do people know how much work that will be? Other people think that frying pans should never be clean, but have a patina of cholesterol built up over years. Do we have a clear strategy on this? Why hasn’t frying pan patina been discussed?

                    I have no confidence that breakfast will happen.

      • tracey 6.4.2
        7 September 2017 at 2:30 pm

        It couldhave been turei (if Greens made it back) but Ardern ruled that out and Turei can only return if she wins Te Tai Tonga

    • Patricia Bremner 6.5
      7 September 2017 at 3:39 pm

      Thank you Carolyn,
      As a polio victim 1947, I am now needing all the aids. So a fairer way of accessing needs would be great. Some products I need are a heavy burden on the purse.

      When I enquired, my Dr”s Nurse offered me a mobility card.

      None of my other needs seemed to feature. So clear guidelines? Great

  7. ScottGN 7
    7 September 2017 at 7:18 am

    Another 1News Colmar-Brunton tonight…

  8. Cinny 8
    7 September 2017 at 7:21 am

    Tolley wants to punish the youth for not having a job. Would it not make better sense to give them free education/training instead. Maybe they haven’t got a job because they have no skills. Without an education or skills they probably have naught to feel good about themselves.

    I now understand why the Nats are so anti any kind of free tertiary education, it’s because Joyce pissed around at varsity when it was free for him and he thinks everyone else will do the same.

      • Cinny 8.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 7:39 am

        Cheers for the link Trace about the UK, that was interesting, so Tolleys idea has been tried and failed overseas, a bit like national standards etc, failed borrowed policy

    • bwaghorn 8.2
      7 September 2017 at 7:40 am

      garner to his credit has just demolished tolleys shiney new policy

      • tracey 8.2.1
        7 September 2017 at 7:43 am

        If you have time can you say more or post a link. I cannot watch because I refuse to honour Richardson with my eyes and ears.

      • Cinny 8.2.2
        7 September 2017 at 7:48 am

        +1 BWaghorn, if the interview comes up online will try and remember to post it laters.

        I know of a couple of teenagers with a deadbeat dad and an absent mother, they aren’t working, or training etc. They never had a chance to start with. Their parents are uneducated and due to poverty they don’t see any hope for themselves. They can’t afford further education, and they have no dreams because they feel they have no future. And it’s reasons like that why I’m a massive supporter for free tertiary education. To give EVERYONE a chance no matter their past, background or upbringing.

        • tracey 8.2.2.1
          7 September 2017 at 8:05 am

          Any legitimate job training is welcomed by me. Cut a swathe tgrough heaps of PTEs first.

        • bwaghorn 8.2.2.2
          7 September 2017 at 8:28 am

          jobs with good wages is what they need , the government needs to be a job creator, we aren’t all equal in our in how we cope with life . if it takes having 10 guys leaning on shovels to get them out of the house and feel some pride so be it.

          • gsays 8.2.2.2.1
            7 September 2017 at 10:42 am

            couldn’t agree more about the government being a job creator/supplier.
            the ripple out benefits are positive from seeing adults in the house, leave every day, to go to work.

            i maintain that kiwirail should have (be forced to?) award its recent loco contracts within aotearoa. only 25% more expensive.
            unfortunately the benefits would not appear on kiwirails balance sheet, but would be real none the less.

    • savenz 8.3
      7 September 2017 at 12:11 pm

      My concern is that there is not the well paid jobs even if the worker has the training and the skills. The world is changing from people being employed to people being self employed, contract workers. I don’t know if that is a good thing, but it’s increasingly difficult to get and keep a job these days.

      Part of it, is that now everyone wants experience from young people and are unwilling to train them, NZ employers don’t want to pay for top skills from Kiwis when they are trained, it’s cheap and easy to get rid of people as it’s just a process with little costs involved, so a change in management often means that for no apparent reason (or in the case of Ms Harrison, fraud) they go around culling out their rivals to be seen to be doing something.

      One of the many reasons for NZ’s low productivity is that there is an adversarial relationship between employee’s and employee’s that stems from the Rogernomics era. There needs to be a rethink on that as well as a way to create new high paid jobs in sustainable areas not just cars, cows, coal and construction with migrant labour being used to mask our appalling wages and labour laws and a system that is producing unequally educated people (illiterate or over qualified) who can’t find jobs, because many of our industries are based on low or very specific skills, with employers who just can’t be bothered training anyone when has become so easy to replace or look over a local worker for an overseas one in an overseas worker pool of billions. with the NZ taxpayer helpfully subsidising their income with working for families, accomodation benefit, free health and schooling, ACC is it all goes wrong and free super after 10 years. What overseas worker is not going to go for that!

  9. eco Maori/kiwi 9
    7 September 2017 at 7:37 am

    Sue Bradford is right we need to nurture our youth not herd them around like sheep and penalize them If they get a universal wage and offer them starts in a trade that is way better than bills policy we need to nurture there wairua self worth ect teach them the work culture and let them no and give them a bright future.
    TOPS should be in that debate as he deserves it Its Just Bill trying to eliminate competition.
    Any employers ripping off there workers should be treated the same as a shop lifter as it is still theft and we need to let these people no that it is theft we should name and shame these employers they are a small % of employers but they are getting away with THEFT. Bryce is a good reporter good to see the likes of him back on our TVs more.

    • tracey 9.1
      7 September 2017 at 7:45 am

      Yes, time to stop fines and start imprisoning bosses who do not have contracts and/or pay less than minimum wage. EG kiwifruit growers recently found over 50% jn that position. No howls from the public or media for personal responsibility and consequences…

    • mary_a 9.2
      7 September 2017 at 12:01 pm

      Agree eco Maori/kiwi (9). Theft of labour is a serious crime in my book as well and should be treated as such, with harsh penalties dished out to unscrupulous employers!

      We know what the Natz’s attitude to it is … ignore the issue completely! Be interesting to find out Labour/Greens/NZF perspective on it is and how they would address labour theft.

  10. eco Maori/kiwi 10
    7 September 2017 at 8:05 am

    I like seeing all the positive news about our culture Maori culture. In my view Maori culture Is all of the people of NZ culture Its is part of what makes NZ culture unique its part of what makes us Kiwis.
    Lett’s celebrate our unique Maori culture it makes us unique in our world. All cultures in NZ can be celebrated to.

  11. Kay 11
    7 September 2017 at 8:29 am

    Susie just did a pretty good job at making Tolley squirm re her latest round of beneficiary bashing. Hopefully audio up in due course.

  12. Ad 12
    7 September 2017 at 8:32 am

    Joyce on RNZ head-to-head debate, when asked directly could not name an economist or indeed anyone,to support his assertion of the $11billion hole in Labour’s proposed budget.

    For the dominant RNZ audience, that will be useful.

  13. adam 13
    7 September 2017 at 8:42 am

    If you need another reason to not vote for national this one should help.

    This service is now down to 7 place on a Friday.

    https://www.healthpoint.co.nz/dentistry/general-dentist/auckland-dhb-oral-health-service-regional-1/

    So ask yourself, how many people in Auckland, and it has 7 places. They stopped the walk in service, because people were getting into fights. Now they just lock you out via the phone.

  14. bwaghorn 14
    7 September 2017 at 9:16 am

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/environment/environmental-reporting-series/environmental-indicators/Home/Land/livestock-numbers

    i read somewhere the other day that total stock numbers have fallen well below the 1991 level s and the stats above seem to back it.
    sheep numbers have plummeted while total cattle has stayed static .
    this would say that farming is already below it.s 1991 levels .

    ”Methane is produced in the guts of ruminant livestock as a result of methanogenic microorganisms (belonging to the Archaea). The composition of the animal feed is a crucial factor in controlling the amounts of methane produced, but a sheep can produce about 30 litres of methane each day and a dairy cow up to about 200.”
    lifted from google

    we have dropped 20 million sheep in that time which release approx 3.3 million cows worth of gas

  16. grumpystilskin 16
    7 September 2017 at 9:30 am

    WTF, just saw this on my FB feed.
    I don’t remember this policy announcement, can someone please tell me when it was released? /sarc

    http://bobmccoskrie.com/?p=20234#sthash.I9f8emZU.dpbs

    “Down’s syndrome advocacy group condemn Jacinda Arden’s pledge to introduce abortion up to birth for disabilities “

    • lprent 16.1
      7 September 2017 at 9:52 am

      Bob McCoskie is simply lying. Hardly surprising, I have noticed that the fuckwits from the Family Fist are chronic liars – I guess that deliberately lying is just part of their moral code.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/05/jacinda-ardern-decriminalise-abortion-new-zealand-election

      She said that abortion should be decriminalized. A quite different thing.

      • grumpystilskin 16.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 10:09 am

        Yeah, you should read the FB comments to McC. Many are pointing out as usual, he’s making shit up to fit his world view.

      • Tricledrown 16.1.2
        7 September 2017 at 10:58 am

        Bob McCroskie a fundamentalist Mormon when you look into their church and Women’s Rights.
        Sexual abuse .
        A horid bunch of Misogynists.
        McCrosky clean up your own back yard before you start telling everyone else how to live.

      • red-blooded 16.1.3
        7 September 2017 at 12:49 pm

        And frankly, she’s right. A woman shouldn’t have to pretend that she’s mentally fragile so that she can get an abortion of the basis of a threat to her mental health. It’s degrading and demeaning of women. I doubt that moving it out of the Crimes Act and into the Health arena would have any effect on the numbers of abortions being performed, but it would be more respectful of the women who require an abortion.

        • tracey 16.1.3.1
          7 September 2017 at 2:41 pm

          And prove that mental illness to 2 different doctors. Imagine you live in a rural area where seeing 1 is hard enough?

    • The Fairy Godmother 16.2
      7 September 2017 at 5:16 pm

      McCoskrie has a masters in economics. As far as I know has done little theological training but sees fit to take an ancient book literally. Ridiculous as you actually can’t take it literally it needs to be interpreted. It says little about abortion except making it clear that a fetus is not the same status as a human being. For instance it recommends the death penalty for murder but not for causing a miscarriage. Exodus 21 22-25. What the Bible is very clear and consistent on is that I we should feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Jesus goes so far as to say that people who don’t do this are going to hell. So I guess that since McCoskrie tends to support right wing parties he is going to he’ll.

  17. Pat 17
    7 September 2017 at 9:39 am

    “We are now seeing signs of bubbles in more and more parts of the capital market where we wouldn’t have expected them,” he said in Frankfurt, noting property prices in advanced economies had hit record levels.

    Making a case for tighter monetary policy a day before ECB governors are expected to unveil plans to reduce money printing due to the stronger economy, he welcomed gradually ending loose monetary policy.

    “The central banks must, however, plot a middle way that averts massive losses on the markets,” he cautioned.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11918620

    something I hope GR is highly conscious of, especially as we reduce the main driver to our economic growth, immigration at the same time….its going to require one hell of a juggling act.

  18. David Mac 18
    7 September 2017 at 9:52 am

    I think I would need to have a serious disconnect with the reality of life in NZ if I was to believe that less than 1 in every 200 beneficiaries smokes a bit of weed.

    Beating people with a bigger stick never improves conditions for anyone. We can’t force people to be the best they can be, it needs to come from within us. We have to want it.

    The worst thing we can do is push the disenfranchised further away with Jackboot policies, we’ve watched this approach fail for centuries. The best thing we can do is to get about creating signposted, alluring, climbable pathways to satisfaction and pride….and yep, if the guy is a stoner, forestry or long-haul truck driving is probably not the best path. It appears people are pretty good at working this out for themselves, I think this is what gets us to that suspect less than 1 in 200 has a puff figure.

    A long term, sustainable and successful solution to any social problem will invariably have it’s feet planted in love.

    • tracey 18.1
      7 September 2017 at 11:58 am

      Ruth Richardson in 1991 slashed benefits. That was designed to incentivise job seeking ( based on a right wing lie that unemployed do not want to work). Since that time benefits have never recovered. Can we agree it is a failed policy and it is time to try something evidence based?

      Secondly, why is ok for white employed people to do drugs? And they do, in great numbers. In my circle it is almost all who vote Nats or Act. The lefties stick with alcohol. That “evidence” is as goid as Tolley’s and Richardson before her and all those in between who did not rectify it.

      In addition it waa decided we could have full employment or low inflation. We chose low inflation and now pillory those victims we know cannot get work because of it

      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 12:41 pm

        In addition it waa decided we could have full employment or low inflation. We chose low inflation and now pillory those victims we know cannot get work because of it

        QFT.

    • tracey 18.2
      7 September 2017 at 11:59 am

      I wonder how Max Key is doing.

      • mary_a 18.2.1
        7 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

        @ tracey (18.2) … no doubt creepy junior is still living off the fat of the land and driving about in his state of the art vehicle, boasting about all his (non) achievements in life, while looking for a photo op, just like Saint Dr Sir daddy!

        Are the offspring of former PMs, included in the life time travel perks, or does that only apply to the retired PM and his/her spouse?

        • tracey 18.2.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 5:36 pm

          I bet he can afford illegal drugs. Does it say the same thing about his parents, if he does, that it says about parents of the poor?

    • Draco T Bastard 18.3
      7 September 2017 at 12:40 pm

      I think I would need to have a serious disconnect with the reality of life in NZ if I was to believe that less than 1 in every 200 beneficiaries smokes a bit of weed.

      So, I take it that some research into it has come out that you disagree with and you’re falling back on you beliefs that have just been proved wrong?

      • David Mac 18.3.1
        7 September 2017 at 5:03 pm

        I don’t need to refer to research Draco, I just go about my day with my eyes and nostrils open. Do you honestly believe that less than 1 in every 200 beneficiaries smokes dope? National average, about 1 in every 12 adults smokes occasionally or more frequently, beneficiary average, 1 in every 225?….I don’t believe it and I think we’re fooling ourselves if we do.

        I don’t think it matters beyond determining how best to address the situation and stopping benefit payments or forced rehab will create more problems than are solved.

        • tracey 18.3.1.1
          7 September 2017 at 5:35 pm

          Isn’t it possible they can’t afford it like the white privileged folks born to the wealthy?

        • Draco T Bastard 18.3.1.2
          7 September 2017 at 7:28 pm

          I don’t need to refer to research Draco, I just go about my day with my eyes and nostrils open.

          No, you actually need to refer to research because otherwise you’re wrong.

          As you don’t refer to research we can safely assume that you’re talking out your arse and know absolutely nothing.

          • David Mac 18.3.1.2.1
            8 September 2017 at 9:01 am

            No, you can assume I don’t accept all research as bona fide. I’m sure you’ve seen research that denies human induced climate change.

            Not testing those people that chose not to attend a job interview because drug testing was part of the potential employer’s induction process will of course provide false numbers. I think we’re foolish to accept them as accurate.

            I can introduce you to 5 beneficiaries that smoke dope Draco. I don’t know 1200 beneficiaries, I don’t know 100. I suspect most of us could tell a similar story. Cherry picking skewed research does us no favours.

            Talking out my arse? Do you honestly believe that less than 1 in 225 beneficiaries smokes weed? It’s not me with 2 sets of vocal chords.

            • Robert Guyton 18.3.1.2.1.1
              8 September 2017 at 9:17 am

              Tui, right there!

            • Draco T Bastard 18.3.1.2.1.2
              8 September 2017 at 12:16 pm

              Talking out my arse?

              Most definitely. That was another three paragraphs of BS.

              You cannot expand you’re anecdote to the entire population.

              Do you honestly believe that less than 1 in 225 beneficiaries smokes weed?

              They can’t afford it, so, yes.

              • David Mac …
                8 September 2017 at 12:35 pm

                OK we’re going to have to agree to disagree then Draco, I’ll take your anecodal point. I’m in the Far North, much of it isn’t purchased, it’s grown.

                But… I’m still calling you out, I bet you know 3 beneficiaries that like a puff, now name another 750 that don’t.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  8 September 2017 at 4:16 pm

                  I don’t know any beneficiaries that smoke marijuana or use any other drugs.

                  And eve if I did it’d still be anecdotal. That’s why we have research – so that we don’t make decisions upon anecdotal BS.

        • marty mars 18.3.1.3
          8 September 2017 at 9:30 am

          umm d-mac you don’t hang around with beneficiaries all day do you being a employer and working stiff and all so where are your nostrils smelling the weed?

    • The Fairy Godmother 18.4
      7 September 2017 at 5:34 pm

      Actually there is real evidence that the poor do less drugs and alcohol than everyone else. I went to a presentation about the growing up in New Zealand study. There were lots of negatives for children from the poorest households. The one positive was they were less likely to suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome. There mother’s couldn’t afford alchohol

      • tracey 18.4.1
        7 September 2017 at 5:48 pm

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-myth-of-welfare-and-drug-use

        “If Ohio is anything like Florida, which also has a drug-testing program, Schaffer will find that the large majority of welfare recipients are neither drug users nor drug dealers. From 2011 to 2012, just 108 of the 4,086 people who took a drug test failed—a rate of 2.6 percent, compared to a national drug use rate of over 8 percent. The total cost to Florida taxpayers? $45,780.
        The most colossal failure of this policy was in Arizona, which passed a drug-testing law in 2009. In 2012, an evaluation of the program had startling results: After three years and 87,000 screenings, only one person had failed the drug test, with huge costs for the state, which saved a few hundred dollars by denying benefits, compared to the hundreds of thousands spent to conduct the tests.’

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-irwin/20-things-poor-people-really-do_b_4533691.html

  19. savenz 19
    7 September 2017 at 11:36 am

    Plastic fibres found in tap water around the world, study reveals

    Exclusive: Tests show billions of people globally are drinking water contaminated by plastic particles, with 83% of samples found to be polluted

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/06/plastic-fibres-found-tap-water-around-world-study-reveals

  20. Whispering Kate 20
    7 September 2017 at 1:01 pm

    Well folks I don’t know if I am seeing things or if this is not a position for a slave I have just been reading in my local rag.

    “Seeking a Nanny/Cleaner”

    “Nanny Cleaner required for full-time position. Nanny/Cleaner will be taking care of child, ages 10 months, 10 years & my Aged Mom. Your responsibilities with the children include: driving children to and from school, taking children to the park, reading to children, playing with children in home. Other duties include light cleaning, some meals & occasional laundry. Nanny is required to have at least a month of experience, as well as CPR. First Aid and French is an asset. Attributes such as sense of humour, caring & responsible are a plus.

    Hours are 9am – 7pm Monday to Friday. The wage is $500pw & vacation pay is included.”

    I have worked this out as 50 hours a week at $10 per hour. Firstly are we allowed to pay beneath the minimum wage these days. Secondly is including the holiday pay into that $500 legal – and if so that would bring down the hourly rate even further.

    I have omitted the person and their contacts but needless I must add – it is a male who is requiring these services. He obviously has no idea what it is like to look after children, plus an aged Mum whom he obviously wants this “slave ” to toilet and keep an eye on and cleaning and laundry.

    Good luck with his job advertisement but if this is the calibre of work that Tolley is hoping our young people will be going into – poor hours, poor pay, no holiday pay or sick pay – then she needs to vacate her cabinet seat and retire.

    Also I heard this morning that there have been thousands of complaints about the very subject above to advocates etc – complaints ranged from termination without any required reason, no security of tenure etc etc. Brave old NZ – she is in a sad state these days.

    • ianmac 20.1
      7 September 2017 at 4:09 pm

      Was it board and lodging provided? If not it is a bit rude to get someone to manage a 10mth old! as well as an aged Mum.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 20.2
      7 September 2017 at 4:36 pm

      Some immigrant desperate for work will take it.

    • tracey 20.3
      7 September 2017 at 5:39 pm

      It should say board included, if it does… but it would be odd to include board for a 5 day a week job. I use “job” loosely.

  21. Cinny 21
    7 September 2017 at 1:20 pm

    At the petrol station, chatting to strangers… ‘wow fuel is getting expensive’, they reply.. ‘it sure is’… so I say ” did you know national have introduced 18 new taxes, including six fuel taxes since they took office”.. they reply, ” really, I didn’t know that”, I say…’this year I’m voting for change”, they respond… “sounds like we need change”…’ yes we do.. have a great day’… ‘thanks love you too’

    At the Dr’s…. crowded waiting room, talking to more strangers… ‘wow we can vote next week’… someone responds ‘they’ve been making all sorts of promises lately’.. I respond… “I know, and how about that steven joyce, turns out he took 8 Economic Papers at varisty and failed the lot of them”… someone else says ‘did he really?’… yes I say, and he is looking after the money’… another person says.. ‘that’s a worry’. “It sure is, and he has the cheek to say all the qualified economists are wrong and he is right”…. someone else says… ‘the only hole he has is one in his head”.. … then I was called for my appointment…. ‘have a great day everyone, nice to talk with you all’… ‘you too and nice to talk with you as well” they reply.

    It’s up to us to inform everyone, every moment we can if we want change.

  22. Poission 22
    7 September 2017 at 1:30 pm

    the first of the coronal mass ejections from the sept 4 m5 eruptions has arrived,

    there is a significant forbush decrease at the southpole neutron monitors

    http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~pyle/thespnplot.png

    Good chance of auroras in the south tonight despite the moon.

  23. adam 23
    7 September 2017 at 1:35 pm

    If you are feeling a bit down, or a bit blue, this interview with Maggie Gyllenhaal will perk you right up. Time stamp 10.16sec

    • Psycho Milt 24.1
      7 September 2017 at 3:07 pm

      Saving Downs make religious lobby groups look rational – doesn’t suprise me that they’d do something this stupid.

      • Hanswurst 24.1.1
        7 September 2017 at 3:28 pm

        Their website also links to two generalised pro-life groups. It is also notable that this ad smearing Labour just happens to come from a special needs advocacy group in the context of a campaign in which National has been receiving bad press for its attitudes towards related issues.

  25. Pat 25
    7 September 2017 at 2:58 pm

    “Later tonight will bring a fresh poll, with TVNZ set to release an update from Colmar Brunton that is already being touted as ‘explosive’. The last one certainly was, putting Labour in front of National for the first time in many years.

    That poll was taken between Saturday August 26 and Wednesday August 30. The Reid Research poll published on Sunday, which showed Labour at 39.4 percent and National at 43.3 percent, was taken from August 22 to August 30, so is seen as slightly less up-to-date than the Colmar Brunton poll.”
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/07/46589/election-17days

    are the voters abandoning ship?

  26. joe90 26
    7 September 2017 at 4:02 pm

    Sixteen years on and they’re as clueless as they ever were.

    The U.S. military in Afghanistan apologized Wednesday for distributing leaflets featuring an image “highly offensive” to Muslims.

    The leaflets dropped Tuesday night over parts of Parwan province showed the Shahada, the Muslim profession of faith, printed on the image of a dog, an animal viewed by many Muslims as unclean.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-afghanistan-usmilitary-apology-20170906-story.html

  27. AsleepWhileWalking 27
    7 September 2017 at 4:37 pm

    Work and Income contact family living for years in boarding house after media coverage to get them (hopefully) on social housing register.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/338910/ministry-contacts-family-living-in-lodge-for-seven-years

  28. ScottGN 28
    7 September 2017 at 4:54 pm

    Haha. National have taken down the billboard on wall of the City Mission.

    • Muttonbird 28.1
      7 September 2017 at 5:04 pm

      Yep. In a panic the Nats have removed their arrogant ‘keep moving forward’ poster from the Auckland City Mission. The Auckland City Mission of course looks after people who the Nats have clearly sent backward while they were moving forward.

      The placement and then removal of the poster is symbolic of their blind indifference.

      Of further interest is that the church has an agreement with the billboard company that no advertising shall be placed with might cause offence. Clearly the National Party does cause offence. 🙂

      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/national-billboard-removed-from-city-mission.html

  29. tracey 29
    7 September 2017 at 5:24 pm

    How come Poll results never get leaked?

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