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Open mike 07/12/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 7th, 2010 - 71 comments
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71 comments on “Open mike 07/12/2010 ”

  1. Muzza 1

    Yesterday Kingi Tuheitia removed the chairwoman of the Tainui Tribal Parliament. This is following the release of a report she authored that was critical of the corporate and executive arm of the tribe (Tuku Morgan personally copped some criticism as well).

    My initial feeling is Tuku Morgan pressured the King to do so because his mana was compromised in a big way. This certainly seems to be the way Tuku likes to deal with things he does not like – get the King to sack the person.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692594

    • pollywog 1.1

      yup…following on from this a couple of weeks ago

      Tainui’s executive is being challenged by the tribal parliament’s new chairwoman over a substantial increase in spending by board members.

      A blow-out in governance costs has prompted the new chairwoman of the Tainui’s tribal parliament to call for a review of the executive board’s spending.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/4396742/Tainui-costs-phenomenal

      well, that’s one way to deal with a challenge.

      I wonder how this is going to pan out, what with Ms Martin being an elected representative and all ?

      or if unfair dismiassal claims can be made against ‘the supreme power’ if it can be proven the figures have been blown out ?

      maybe a bit of hush money could be in order ?

      • Muzza 1.1.1

        I think she will go without fuss on her part. I do not think she has the nerve to challenge the tribes Ariki (Kingi Tuheitia). Even if she did any challenge to the mana of the King would be a direct challenge to the mana of the tribe and the tribe would not appreciate the eruption of infighting.

        But certainly if her figures and claims are correct Tuku may want to slip a substantial amount of money her way. In the interests of resolution.

        • pollywog 1.1.1.1

          Makes a total mockery of electoral process if the marae rep gets voted in, does her job, then when the powers that be don’t like her findings, just sack her.

          The removal is a further sign the king is becoming more active in tribal politics.

          Previously, the tribe has said he should stay above day-to-day matters.

          Te Arataura chairman Tuku Morgan said the king had to intervene.

          Why bother having a token parliament if as Tuku says…

          There’s only one boss in Waikato-Tainui

          …just disband parliament and rule by royal decree with Tuku playing the role of evil grand vizier

          • prism 1.1.1.1.1

            The sort of behaviour in Tainui when scrutiny and self-regulation is required but has been rejected is likely to be repeated in Whanau Ora spending. Whanau Ora has good ideals and goals but way back in Greek legend they understood about this saying “There’s many a slip ‘twixt cup and lip”. When there are not focussed goals, tight controls of money and someone in charge with determination to ‘run a tight ship’ then people in the organisation can develop expensive habits of spending without the expected outcomes resulting.

          • marty mars 1.1.1.1.2

            takes brave people to dis someone without having the full story – but i spose it’s just old expensive-undies-tuku so who cares

            “King Tuheitia said Ms Martin’s report was based on inaccurate figures and she had issued it without giving board members a chance to respond.

            “She is well aware of the damaging errors in her report,” he said.

            “She has been taken through them several times. She has told my [representative] that she has made a major mistake.”

            “She has agreed several times to issue an apology to members of Te Arataura, but has not delivered on those agreements.

            “She has committed to meet with Te Arataura and accept offers of mediation of her dispute, and has repeatedly failed to meet those commitments.”

            In her report, Ms Martin put the board’s costs at $1,703,000. The king says the true figure is $656,000.

            King Tuheitia said Ms Martin was supposed to meet him last Thursday, but she postponed the meeting as she was receiving medical treatment.

            He found out she was being interviewed by a current affairs show.”

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10692594

            maybe a bit more to it than meets the eye.

            Be good to let them sort it out in house IMO

            • Muzza 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Someone is not been honest here. Last night on Native Affairs Tania Martin stood by her claims as accurate and an expression of her honest opinion. Tuku Morgan then appeared and stood by his conflicting claims as accurate. Tuku then proceeded to undermine Tania Martin’s credibility and counter some of here claims. For example Tania Martin claimed her report was endorsed by Te Kauhanganui (the tribal Parliament) by way of majority vote whilst Tuku’s rebuttal was not endorsed, however Tuku claimed her report was merely received by the Parliament and so was his. Neither were endorsed he said.

              Does someone have an agenda here or is it just a case of miscommunication and mistakes on behalf of both parties? Its seems utterly bizarre that Tania Martin would fabricate her figures and criticise Te Arataura without justification – it is then even more bizarre that Kingi Tuheitia makes a public spectacle of the issue by sacking her based on his mana alone. Perhaps Tania has just got it painfully wrong or maybe Te Arataura has something to hide?

              (RNZ is reporting Tania Martin has the support of Angela Greensill – a respected member of Tainui)

  2. Pascal's bookie 2

    This is an article with a lot of win.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/06/us/06ark.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=noah's%20ark&st=cse

    This venture promises to be much more lulzworthy than the nearby creationist museum, which only has yabba-dabba-doo statues, and it should be quite fruitful in granting relief to the faithful in that they might more easily fit through the eye of a needle.

    The US constitution might prove cumbersome however.

    I could be convinced that NZ might develop similar rube farming type related activities, going forward, and our constitutional arrangements may provide competitive advantage!

    “We think that God would probably have sent healthy juvenile-sized animals that weren’t fully grown yet, so there would be plenty of room,” said Mr. Zovath, a retired Army lieutenant colonel heading the ark project. “We want to show how Noah would have taken care of them, taken care of waste management, taken care of water needs and food needs.”

    • Tigger 2.1

      Utter win! But not sure about keeping animals in ‘pens’ for long periods…

      Sounds like they’re doing a better job of tackling unemployment than our rulers though.

    • ianmac 2.2

      I suspect that locking up a large number of pairs of animals in a wooden building might be a huge logistical nightmare. Imagine even only 40 pairs of diverse creatures in a confined space! Especially as they would include various dinosaurs since they lived at the same time. Hope they don’t use tractors to move the food around. Faith V Science. (48% of people in the USA believe in the devil but none have heard of Winston.)

    • Lanthanide 2.3

      I really don’t understand these people that try and come up with realistic/scientific explanations for the ark. Either it’s 100% faith and miracles, or it clearly didn’t happen. Trying to broach the two just makes them look like desperate, delusional idiots.

      One story I picked up from snopes, I believe, is that the bible says the 40 days and nights of rain were the first time it had rained on Earth. When put to a door-to-door evangelist to explain how the ecosystem worked before that, they came up with the answer of “heavy dews” that provided all the moisture for plants to grow etc.

      • ianmac 2.3.1

        The moment that a person says I have faith that the words in the Bible are true it is really the end of the discussion.
        There is a large brown teapot orbiting Venus. Believe it because it is true, and you can’t prove that it is not. Have faith.

        • KJT 2.3.1.1

          No. Its a coffee maker!

        • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.2

          Repeating “I once heard the Pope say that the Catholic Church is the only true Christian church, what do you think of that?”

          That pretty much kills the conversation.

          • ianmac 2.3.1.2.1

            A guide in a Moslem church I recently visited in Abu Dhabi was very sincere and enthusiastic about her faith. And that was great. But after a while I realised that it reflected Old Testament values and beliefs and must be very similar to many Christian beliefs such as the Catholic Church. The mosques that I visited were refreshing after being in churches and temples of other religions which tended to be cluttered with figures and images and tributes to dead people. (Gave me the willies!) As for Westminster Abbey!

          • KJT 2.3.1.2.2

            They all think that their God/Gods are the only ones and all others are superstition.
            Fine so long as it motivates people to do some good for others.

      • Chris 2.3.2

        Was that “heavy dews” or “heavy jews”

  3. The Voice of Reason 3

    94% of Aussies get who’s responsible for climate change, nearly half are happy to pay more to help solve the problem:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/australians-neatly-divided-on-carbon-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1225966679472

    • Lanthanide 3.1

      It’s easy to say that sort of thing, until reality hits of what it actually means to pay more. Talk is cheap.

  4. I agree with Te Wharepora Hou statements in opposition to TPPA

    “Similar free trade agreements have had a devastating impact on the rights & lives of Indigenous peoples around the world. Indigenous peoples have been criminalised and rights to their lands and resource have been ignored.

    The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) is colonisation by corporation. Maori and Pacific Island communities have already borne the brunt of neo-liberal economic restructuring in the 80’s and 1990’s.”

    http://uriohau.blogspot.com/2010/12/press-release-te-wharepora-hou-tpp-no.html

  5. joe90 5

    Rhys Jones, our new defence chief plays with toy soldiers.

    • Bored 5.1

      The killer part is The review identified the need for up to $400 million in annual savings, which may include up to 1400 military jobs being converted to civilian roles and greater participation by the private sector in infrastructure development, facilities maintenance and provision of support services.

      Nowhere in the entire range of history I have read does the private sector make for a good military (unless you call mercenaries “private sector”)…looks like the neo libs want to gut our already fekked over forces at the very moment they will be needed. The world is not exactly a model of security and stability as resources run out.

      • mcflock 5.1.1

        historically, mercanaries tend to renegotiate contracts at the most inconvenient moments…

        • Bored 5.1.1.1

          ….John Hawkewood , Sforza, Visconti, Montefeltro….experts at being bought by the highest bidder.

          • prism 5.1.1.1.1

            Bored – They sound like pretty snazzy car makers – shoot down the autobahn in my Montelfeltro! I imagine they would put a ‘tiger in your tank’ or whatever their paid for.

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    I just posted this on RA

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1680661813&play=1

    A fascinating discussion on what the US needs to do to make its way forward economically.

  7. prism 7

    I record my condolences for the adult and juvenile seals clubbed to death near Kaikoura, also for the young ones left who will now die without recourse to their mother’s milk. We remain connected to our origins as humans tens of thousands years ago and our present cleverness in society does not prevent those primitive drives emerging so we have to keep alert and socialise all our children against this tendency and check it in ourselves.

    • Bored 7.1

      I have always insisted with my now grown brood that to kill comes with a single responsibility: you have to eat it.

      • prism 7.1.1

        Seems a practical philosophy Bored, for meat eaters like myself. Also killing as carefully and painlessly as possible I guess.

        • jcuknz 7.1.1.1

          And only what you need … 26 would be well over the top unless you had a large deep freeze.
          The trouble with the current situation and similar is that the perpetrators will be reveling in the publicity … unless it was fishermen worried about declining fish catches.

        • Bored 7.1.1.2

          Theres no joy in killing, its a quick thank you and a well respected meal.

      • KJT 7.1.2

        Hope none of them join the army. 🙂

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.1

          There is always the police. Or failing that, they might be quite suitable for the UK police.

  8. prism 8

    Emotional abuse is four times as prevalent in families than violence! Someone experienced is being interviewed on NinetoNoon and has just made that statement. They are discussing a report on neglect of children he has just published (John Angus Childrens Commissioner). I was concerned about the narrow concern about physical violence that underpinned the highly emotional anti-smacking bill and felt that the no-violence brigade were missing the point, although they gained a high moral buzz from winning their case.

    For families where there is chronic neglect, compulsory attendance at parenting classes, life and personal planning, parents thinking and setting a vision for a positive and happy future, would lead to fruitful outcomes and happy children with stable, friendly homes. If parents can’t love their children they can at least carry out their duties with kindness, affection, encouragement, with regularity and reliably.

    • ianmac 8.1

      In Germany a bill was passed about 3 years ago saying hitting kids was unlawful. It passed without a murmur. So hit your kids in Germany and look out!
      It should have been like this in NZ. All the things Prism, that you quote from John Angus, should have been part of the discussion. Why wasn’t it? The hysterical opposition from a small faction supported by a hungry MSM turned it into a shambles. And it wasn’t even a total ban on hitting kids! As you say the big issue is the denial of basic rights to kids. (Mind you some kids are handicapped by an over-supply of parental “support and supervision!)

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

        Parts of the NZ psyche has a nasty vindictive, punitive streak to it.

        • prism 8.1.1.1

          Yes CV – committed to rules and punishment rather than getting a workable system with helps and aids to achieve good results.

          ianmac – I wonder what Germany did about emotional abuse? Sexual abuse seems quite strong in that part of the world too, involving children. Laws sound good. But they don’t get brought in if there isn’t wrongdoing that they are supposed to prevent. So how to prevent that occurring? Hitler and his bunch had high ideals about certain things. I think he came from a time when child rearing involved lots of thrashings and punishment. The temptation to revert to that approach carries on in families through the generations.

          • ianmac 8.1.1.1.1

            Maybe there is still emotional harm in Germany but greater awareness of the rights of children through anti hitting laws will surely move us/them along the continuum. Are you saying that Germany was wrong to pass such a law? I was using their change as an example of how their law and those of more that 30 other countries passed without the weird hoo ha that happened here.

            • prism 8.1.1.1.1.1

              ianmac What I was saying that we and other countries happily pass laws and consider that is the end of the matter. Regulation, monitoring, education, are what an intelligent government committed to achieving good outcomes would do.

              Unhappily in NZ frequently a law is passed then the energy goes into punishing the law breakers. Then we have reports dwelling on the growing numbers flouting this law which gives a grand feeling of schadenfreude plus irritation that people just can’t seem to conform to the new law.

              • Colonial Viper

                Plus the fact that laws approach the lowest common denominator when it comes to maintaining a civil society.

                Good manners, self respect, trust and consideration for others are far more powerful.

  9. millsy 9

    Two interesting things on the horizon.

    1) David Caygill’s ACC ‘stocktake’ gets released – more cuts.
    2) Early next year the government decides whether to increase the minium wage. Expect huge pressure for a freeze or cut by the retail and hospitality barons because of the World Cup.

  10. Simon 11

    Was just reading about the Wellingtonian who was killed by American fire in Afghanistan… then found this article from the Capital Times last year – http://www.capitaltimes.co.nz/article/2519/WipeouttheTaliban.html

    It’s pretty much an interview with him… including a number of quotes which confirms why I hate this, and all, wars:
    “To find out we’ve killed Taliban is an awesome feeling”
    “A major part of Howard’s training was aggression”
    “We never got into contact with the enemy at all, until one day in a new place we made contact – it was exciting”
    “We got a report there was going to be a suicide bomber in a white Toyota pick-up. Sure enough we saw the car speeding towards us, so we shot it up. It turns out they were just some kids high on heroin.”
    “we were told if you see suspicious children, shoot them on sight”

    and most depressingly – He doesn’t see the army as a career choice

    RIP Jack, and all those that die from state sanctioned violence on all sides

    • Vicky32 11.1

      I heard about him on the radio, which implied there’s some doubt that it was a blue on blue! Yet I have no doubt whatsoever..
      Deb

  11. prism 12

    I see Jonkey knows better than Treasury about the likely percentage growth for the country next year. He has heard, seen, somewhere, from someone, that it will be as high as 3.2% or similar. Sounds like a good figure, not so high that it is risible, not so low that he’s talking down the economy. Well we’ll see. We wish.

    Meantime government negotiators have secret talks about TPP looking to see where they can gain 50c while they lose $1 and decrease our standard of living with low wages, higher charges and costs and increased biosecurity hazards from increased unnecessary imports.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Bill and John think we will strongly emerge from recession and have >3% growth while the US and Europe sinks further into morass? Good luck with that.

  12. tc 13

    Notice the colourful half page ad in granny from Pansy’s backers.

  13. Draco T Bastard 14

    So, remember all the supposed “pork” in funding that NACT was complaining about when in opposition?

    Really, it’s time to get rid of electorates and go full proportional representation.

    • gingercrush 14.1

      That post of NRT is frankly stupid. Labour holds no provincial electorates except for Palmerston North and two Maori electorates. So if doing anything in provincial New Zealand is somehow barrel politics that’s just pathetic.

      And besides the Labour held electorate of Tainui is covered by it.

  14. Draco T Bastard 15

    An example of an economy doing everything right. Import what you need until you develop you own production, export it and maintain research and development. It’s what every country should be doing.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Yeah.

      And apart from the mil stuff the Chinese have been smart enough to convince everyone from Apple to Panasonic to GM to assemble their products there, to use local suppliers to make many individual components, to assemble test and ship final products.

  15. Draco T Bastard 16

    <a href="http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/12/07/its-the-little-things-that-count/&quot;?It's the little things that count

    Parliament is sitting in the press-Xmas period under the shadow of urgency to pass a rush of “priority legislation”.

    Guess what one of the top priorities is? Abolishing gift duty.

    More gifting to the rich so that they can rort the tax system even more.

  16. Colonial Viper 17

    Assange Hands Himself to Authorities

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/world/europe/08assange.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

    LONDON — Police in Britain arrested Julian Assange on Tuesday on a warrant issued in Sweden in connection with alleged sex offenses, British police officials said, the latest twist in the drama swirling around the anti-secrecy group and its beleaguered founder.

    Mr. Assange, a 39-year-old Australian, was arrested by officers from Scotland Yard’s extradition unit when he went to a central London police station by prior agreement with the authorities, the police said. A court hearing was expected later in the day.

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