Open Mike 08/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 8th, 2018 - 170 comments
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170 comments on “Open Mike 08/04/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    8 April 2018 at 6:39 am

    This is powerful stuff from a political blog that is fast becoming a must read.

    On top of his unique insight into British politics because of his connections, his intellect and empathy make his observations on other issues worth looking at.

    Craig Murray talks about the courage of protesters and the vileness of the media. Here he looks at the recent events in Gaza and the ghastly Guardian’s building of false narratives.

    “I cannot imagine the cold courage it must take to be a Palestinian, walking in protest, unarmed, towards the fence that contains the agony of their long drawn-out genocide, in the knowledge that the bullets will start splintering bones and ripping out brain matter around them, and every millisecond could be their own last.

    I cannot imagine the cold viciousness it must take to work on the Guardian newspaper, where on the homepage the small headline of the latest six Palestinians to be shot dead, is way below the larger headline of the several hundredth article associating Jeremy Corbyn with anti-Semitism, on the basis of the quite deliberate conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/those-who-die-in-palestine-those-with-dead-souls-here/

    • Brigid 1.1
      8 April 2018 at 10:09 am

      Thanks Ed.
      IMO Craig’s articles are the epitome of great journalism. The comments they generate are also damned good value.

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2
    8 April 2018 at 6:41 am

    Pauli Walnuts is concerned, and offers some friendly advice to the public:

    “I don’t wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career…

    “The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world…

    Alcoholism, drug addiction, stress and depression resulting in heart attacks and even suicide were the “professional illnesses of a traitor”

    “Don’t choose Britain as a place to live. Something is wrong there. Maybe it’s the climate, but in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with grave outcomes there.”

    Thanks Pauli.

  3. Ed 3
    8 April 2018 at 7:08 am

    There are many reasons not to drink cow’s milk.

    Firstly, drinking cow’s milk promotes cruelty to animals. This milk is designed for baby cows, not adult humans. Millions of male calves are killed as a result and the mother cow is separated from her child at birth.

    Secondly, people’s consumption of milk has major, well documented environmental impacts for our country. Our waterways are being trashed. We can’t swim in our rivers and we can’t drink our water.

    And then there is this. To make intensive dairy farming possible, New Zealand farmers import palm kernel from Indonesia. And in doing so, they are responsible for the deforestation of the world’s last primary forests. The Deforestation of Borneo makes catastrophic climate change more likely and takes away the habitat of the orangutan, which is in rapid decline.

    Finally, Indonesia since the 1960s has been a nation shorn of many civil rights. Fonterra has become connected with some shady characters ( to put it mildly) as it accesses palm kernel.

    So if you are comfortable with animal cruelty, happy to see New Zealand’s environment ruined, can turn a blind eye to your part in climate change and you don’t care about human rights, drink up that white gold.

    After all, milk is so healthy.
    That must be true.
    Fonterra told me so in their last avalanche of advertisements.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/102536599/fonterra-concerned-by-brutality-claim-made-against-indonesian-police-hosted-by-its-pke-supplier

    • solkta 3.1
      8 April 2018 at 7:24 am

      Secondly, people’s consumption of milk has major, well documented environmental impacts for our country.

      No, the industrial farming of dairy cows is doing this. As you know, cows and chickens are integral components of permaculture land systems. Again you conflate environmental issues with veganism. You are dishonest.

      • Ed 3.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 8:05 am

        What percentage of cows and chickens in New Zealand are not farmed in an industrial manner?
        1%, 2%……?

        • solkta 3.1.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 8:19 am

          That is not relevant. You are advocating for change. The change that you would have is not the option with the most environmental benefit. You would throw the baby out with the bathwater.

          What percentage of soy beans are produced using sustainable methods?

          • Ed 3.1.1.1.1
            8 April 2018 at 8:20 am

            It is very relevant.
            I am advocating for the cessation of industrial farming.
            That includes industrial soy farming, especially with gm seeds.

            • solkta 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 April 2018 at 8:25 am

              I am advocating for the cessation of industrial farming.

              No you’re not, you are advocating for veganism. Otherwise you could have very well said that people should stop eating soy beans.

            • wayne 3.1.1.1.1.2
              8 April 2018 at 10:50 am

              Ed

              You advocacy of ceasing “industrial” farming would have to be accompanied by a reduction in the worlds population by at least two thirds. Because that is what the end of “industrial” farming implies.

              Most food in Europe, Russia, Ukraine, the US, Canada, and increasingly much of Asia, Africa and South America, is grown on large scale farms with the use of modern machinery and high yield crops. That is how the bulk of the world’s population is fed.

              You might as rail against the fact that virtually all modern manufactures are made in huge factories. They simply cannot be made any other way. Smart phones (just to name one product among thousands) are just too complex for any other way of manufacturing.

              Over 2 billion people in Asia have escaped poverty in the last 40 years precisely because of large scale mechanisation of both farming and manufacturing.

              • Tricledrown …
                8 April 2018 at 11:06 am

                Over the top claim Wayne just throwing figures around.
                I was talking to a post grad Chinese doctor about the Chinese economy she said nearly 600 million still live in poverty.
                Large scale industrial farming opens us up to large scale farming failure.
                Making it easier for pests and diseases to spread.

                • Wayne …
                  8 April 2018 at 12:22 pm

                  Not just China, but also South East Asia, South Korea and the Indian sub continent. That is how I get 2 billion people.
                  The World bank says about 700 million of them are in China.

                  • KJT …
                    8 April 2018 at 4:36 pm

                    Tell that to the Africans and Mexicans who are much poorer than they were, due to competition from US, mega farms destroying their lives, while they, themselves, can, no longer, afford to buy food.
                    As the food their farms produced is replaced with coffee, soy, beef and dairy and palm kernel farms, for large corporates and consumption in wealthy countries, , on the land they used to farm.

                • cleangreen …
                  8 April 2018 at 5:26 pm

                  Trickledrown you are right 100%

                  Yes it will as I can see it now happening in Gisborne where factory farms are being developed out in these back hills.

                  So as the roads are dirt not tar sealed, and these factory farms send big trucks full of feed for their stock they come all the time now with feed for the animals, as they are force feed continually to fatten them as fast as they can.

                  So our roads are now falling apart and guess who is going to be paying for the maintenance?

                  We are going to wind up paying not them.

                  These chinese companies are causing the roads to fail with their dirty farming practices, we should not allow this as we will pay highly for water and land pollution. also as the road repairs.

              • weka …
                8 April 2018 at 12:03 pm

                no reason why we can’t feed the same number of people using regenerative agriculture. The reason we still have industrial ag instead is because of economic ideology. People still think that making money is more important than growing food sustainable. Thus polluted rivers and Peak Soil.

                You might also want to look at how industrial ag can survive in a post-carbon world. It’s not pretty. Best we get on with transitioning now before we are forced to.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                8 April 2018 at 12:17 pm

                3 Big Myths about Modern Agriculture.

                All that time you wasted “learning” the things you believe, eh Wayne. It’s almost as though the National Party is a life-support system for the ignoratii.

              • The Fairy Godmother …
                8 April 2018 at 2:36 pm

                Reducing the population is an excellent idea Wayne. We have way more people than the planet can sustain. I think that people with extravagant resource consuming lifestyles should not have children and other people should be encouraged to have less.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  8 April 2018 at 4:37 pm

                  That’s already happening. The wealthy aren’t having enough children to replace themselves, and as the developing world gets wealthier, they’re having fewer children too.

        • cleangreen 3.1.1.2
          8 April 2018 at 5:14 pm

          Good Point there Ed;

          just look at this way they treat Chickens and at the same time call this ‘Environmentally friendly and organic’

          This makes me sick at what a large Corporation says and does to us now.

          http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/04/huge-chicken-farm-has-iwi-vege-growers-worried.html
          LIVESTREAM
          Newshub Nation

          Huge chicken farm has iwi, vege growers worried
          Rewa Harriman
          More than 1 million chickens will be on the farm at any one time. Credits: Video – The Hui; Image – Getty
          Watch the video for the full story from The Hui, including Tegel’s response.
          Dargaville locals are crying fowl about Tegel’s proposal to build the country’s largest broiler chicken farm in their backyard.
          The proposed site is in Arapohue, a small settlement south east of Dargaville, and neighbouring properties – including the Kapehu Marae – are furious.
          Marae chairwoman Margaret Mutu says the enormity of the project has them very concerned.
          “We won’t be able to use this place, we’ll be covered in dust, we won’t be able to use the water off our roof because that will have all of the dust and we won’t be able to hear ourselves speak.”

    • mikesh 3.2
      8 April 2018 at 6:52 pm

      I suppose one might object to the eating of meat generally, but, if not, then one can hardly object to the killing of male calves.

      The palm oil question is really a separate issue. Farmers could probably feed their cattle on other food.

    • timeforacupoftea 3.3
      8 April 2018 at 8:37 pm

      You’re on your own on this one Ed.
      Next time keep you’re thoughts to yourself and enjoy a peaceful stressful Sunday.
      Goodnight

  4. Ankerrawshark 4
    8 April 2018 at 7:58 am

    Lizzie Marvelly has written a scathing article on the state of Middlemore saying national have a lot of questions to answer. She calls the situation outrageous and questions what sort of ministry was Jonathan Coleman running. The language is appropriately strong. It came through on my fb feed. I duly looked for it on the herald’s website, but it was nowhere to be seen. Not even lurking at the bottom of the scroll. I finally accessed it by searching Lizzie. Of course easily viewed on the herald website was all sorts of crap including another piece from resident clairvoyant HDA who is now predicting the greens will no longer exist in 10 years.

    I am having difficulty posting the link to this article (maybe it came up yesterday on open mike?). But I will keep trying and urge you all to check it out. She nails it

    • patricia bremner 4.1
      8 April 2018 at 10:03 am

      Thank you Ankerrawshark, I had thought Lizzie had been dropped along with some others recently. So I have used your method to access her articles. As you say, always to the point and pithy.

      Ryall and Coleman worked to make that sham Bill English look good.
      Typical rob peter to pay paul stuff.

    • veutoviper 4.2
      8 April 2018 at 10:32 am

      Thanks for bringing this article, and subject, to attention again, Ankerrawshark. It is one that must be given attention. I see you have provided the link now in your comments below at 5 and 6.

      Marvelly’s article was actually put up here on Open Mike yesterday by red-blooded but did not get much attention as it was a bit lost in the morass of other subjects above it: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07-04-2018/#comment-1471172

      In reply I also provided a list of all the 12 articles on Middlemore Hospital’s disgusting state of repair found using the Herald’s own search facility:
      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07-04-2018/#comment-1471204

      Although I am not a great Bryce Edwards’ fan, he has actually done a good job on summarising the situation re wider media reporting on the Middlemore Hospital issues in his Political Round up article on 4 April in the Herald.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12026117

      He gives main kudos for bringing this situation to notice to Phil Pennington, a RNZ senior reporter (formerly DomPost from my memory) who started the ball rolling on 22 March. Edwards says that Pennington has produced about a dozen articles on Middlemore since then and links to a number of these are in Edwards’s article (ie the link above). The article also provides links to a couple of other media articles – eg Gordon Campbell’s excellent piece in Werewolf, and also a good piece in the Spinoff by Dr David Galler, an intensive care specialist at Middlemore.

      I second Edwards’ recommendation that Dr Galler’s article is a must read so here is the link again –
      https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/03-04-2018/the-toxic-mould-and-rot-of-middlemore-is-the-legacy-of-a-crisis-in-values/

      The Spinoff has also produced a later article not included in Edwards’ Round Up by Peter Glensor entitled “Beyond the toxic mould: how we can get our DHBs back” which is also a thought provoking read on the wider issues with the DHB model.

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-04-2018/beyond-the-toxic-mould-how-dhbs-can-lead-the-fight-to-fix-our-hospitals/

      [“Peter Glensor was an elected member of the Hutt Valley DHB for 12 years. He was chair of the Hutt Valley DHB, ALAC and DHBNZ, and was deputy chair of Capital and Coast DHB. He also helped found and lead a network of community-based health services across New Zealand.”]

      A bit of reading there for anyone interested!

      • Ankerrawshark 4.2.1
        8 April 2018 at 2:37 pm

        Thanks Veut.

        Am concerned that health funding and Middlemore taking a back seat to far less important items.

        I feel outraged that John f…g key states his one regret is that he didn’t managed to change the flag. What does that say about how he feels about Middlemore. Doesn’t give a s..t that this went on under his watch

      • red-blooded 4.2.2
        8 April 2018 at 4:30 pm

        Great summary, veutoviper.

        • veutoviper 4.2.2.1
          8 April 2018 at 4:38 pm

          Thanks, red-blooded, and also thanks to you and Ankerrawshark for putting up Marvelly’s article because it spurred me to do the research to find the Herald articles and also check out BE’s Political Round Up article, because I tend to not go to the Herald nearly as much as I used to.

          I also hope in the longer term this situation leads to a review of the DHB model because IMO it is well past its use by date, and admin costs etc gobble up far too many $$$ that should be going to actual healthcare.

      • Pat 4.2.3
        8 April 2018 at 6:27 pm

        Sadly the problems are wider than underfunding (as bad as that is)….its systemic and I think directly related to the cause of most of our problems…the 80s reforms.

        Came across this a few years ago when involved in quake issues…..dosnt make for happy reading but is compelling.

        http://canterbury.royalcommission.govt.nz/documents-by-key/20120813.4973/$file/ENG.SCA.0002.RED.pdf

  5. Ankerrawshark 5
    8 April 2018 at 8:01 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12026497

    I am having trouble posting on TS. Wrote a comment about this article by Lizzie Marvelly about Middlemore. This is a great article

    I don’t know why your comments are hitting “pending”. If you have log-in details, use them and it might resolve the problem] – Bill

  6. Ankerrawshark 6
    8 April 2018 at 8:23 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12026497

    Appropriately scathing article about the state of Middlemore by Lizzie Marvelly. Nowhere to be seen on The heralds website. You have to search her name to find it. Cam through my fb feed

  7. One Anonymous Bloke 7
    8 April 2018 at 8:25 am

    Carter and Finlayson are enjoying life and minding their own business.

    Has anyone seen Simon Lusk?

    • Keepcalmcarryon 7.1
      8 April 2018 at 8:49 am

      He’s been off hunting

    • Carolyn_Nth 7.2
      8 April 2018 at 10:22 am

      Lusk is either fishing In the Wild

      giving advice on it,

      or working on campaigns to remove politicians that stand against his clients in parliamentary, by-elections and local government elections.

      In the last few days he seems to have been talking to WO about the Northcote by-election.

      From a google search on “Simon Lusk” for the last month;

      Mar 28, 2018 -Dirty Politics – Episode 17- Can Labour Win Northcote? by Cameron Slater on March 28, 2018 at 10:18am. Welcome to episode 17 of our Dirty Politics podcasts. In this episode, Simon Lusk and I discuss whether or not Labour could win the Northcote by-election …

      Why taking heads is required in politics – Whale Oil Beef Hooked …
      https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/04/why-taking-heads-is-required-in-politics/

      3 days ago – Why taking heads is required in politics. by Simon Lusk on April 5, 2018 at 9:15am. The current Labour government cannot buy a good news story. They are lurching from disaster to disaster, and mainly through inept political management. This inept behaviour is reinforced by the unwillingness to sack anyone for mistakes, …
      INCITE Archives – Whale Oil Beef Hooked | Whaleoil Media
      https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/category/incite/

      21 hours ago – by Simon Lusk on April 5, 2018 at 9:15am. The current Labour government cannot buy a good news story. They are lurching from disaster to disaster, and mainly through inept political management. This inept behaviour is reinforced by the unwillingness to sack anyone for mistakes, omissions or basic stupidity. Jacinda …

    • mary_a 7.3
      8 April 2018 at 2:06 pm

      One Anonymous Bloke (7) … If it’s not Natz and its official PR mouthpiece msm having a joke on us, I’m picking it will be either Brownlee or Finlayson who will be taking the walk of shame next.

    • cleangreen 7.4
      8 April 2018 at 5:28 pm

      When are labour going to discuss in Parliament about TPP?

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8
    8 April 2018 at 8:40 am

    Oi! Gummint! The Ministry of Education’s legal team needs their final written warning.

    …it looks like women will be heading to the Employment Court to battle over fair pay.

    Again. Another National Party clusterfuck to repair.

    • Carolyn_Nth 8.1
      8 April 2018 at 9:48 am

      Yep. It shows where the Nats’ and other rightees values lie. These education support workers are doing a very skilled job, often with children with major needs.

      They are making a valuable contribution to the lives of others and society, while being paid a pittance.

      Then we hear ACToids complaining that tax is theft from their hard earned wages. And some of them are doing over highly paid jobs that enrich themselves and make little contribution to the betterment of lives of others.

      PS: good on Alison Mau for following their case, and reporting it in the MSM.

  9. Pat 9
    8 April 2018 at 9:04 am

    HdPA at it again

    “They won’t have to wait too long. Caring for the environment is no longer hippy politics. Every party is starting to do it. Virtually the first thing Labour did in Government was to ban plastic microbeads. NZ First has a policy on carbon pricing. Act wants to cut emissions.

    Oddly enough the biggest threat is coming from the party the Greens are mostly likely to hiss at: National.

    There’s a long tradition of Blue-Greenness within the Nats and things are really starting to ramp up. In his first interviews in the job, new leader Simon Bridges couldn’t have made it clearer he plans to go greener.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12027293

    Given whats emerged from the past 9 years would anyone trust Nationals ability to do anything more than add a verdant hue to their incompetence?

    • Muttonbird 9.1
      8 April 2018 at 9:16 am

      I like the first line about making predictions in politics being an unwise thing to do, yet she did exactly the same thing last week too! More, foolish and attention seeking predictions seem to be all she is now capable of in terms of journalistic style.

      Her case for National being the big mover in environmental policy rest entirely on one of Bridges’ reckons (rather than their actual long tradition of promoting the rape of New Zealand water systems for profit), while dismissing an entire election campaign from Labour on water access, irrigation industry reform, regulation of the dairy industry. Not to mention any of the wider global commitments Labour have made.

      She really is a bitter caricature of a crappy click-bait hack who, disappointed at not making it as a broadcaster, is now lashing out at her traditional enemy – which is progress.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 9.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 9:53 am

        Well summed up Muttonbird. I began the article agreeing the Greens appear divided, then HDPA started big upping the Nats environmental cred and it became a work of fiction.
        To be honest I’m not sure why she gets any airtime she appears quite shallow and a bit thick.

        • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 9:58 am

          She gets airtime because she’s part of the rightwing stable of journalists employed by the conservative corporate controlled NZME.

          They don’t care how thick she or any of their other hacks are, as long as they are critical of Labour.

        • solkta 9.1.1.2
          8 April 2018 at 10:12 am

          Her argument is based on the ridiculous assumptions that Julie Anne is not left wing and Marama is not environmentally minded.

          • Muttonbird 9.1.1.2.1
            8 April 2018 at 10:23 am

            Yes, and if she applied the same rationale to Green vs National then she’d have to say that National cannot ever be environmentally conscious when she claims they are.

            She really is thick.

    • patricia bremner 9.2
      8 April 2018 at 10:22 am

      The only Green thing about National would be verdigris.

    • McFlock 9.3
      8 April 2018 at 3:39 pm

      There are green nats in the same way there are nats who care about poverty-related social issues:

      they will utter soothing words on a case-by-case basis;
      make tax-deductible donations to charities they like the look of;
      they might even volunteer some of the spare time they are privileged to have towards a worthy organisation,

      but all those efforts will be less than nothing when faced against the policies of their preferred government.

    • tracey 9.4
      8 April 2018 at 3:44 pm

      National is saying they care about the environment and poor people. Their actions for 9 years speak volumes however

  10. savenz 10
    8 April 2018 at 9:55 am

    What’s really starting to happen with big events in cities…. they start to destroy local business – not help it – as local people are increasingly being taught to “stay away” and can’t even afford to go to the events their tax dollars hosts and pays for.

    Gold Coast businesses ’empty’ despite Commonwealth Games

    “Businesses struggled in the lead-up, with constant roading upgrades pushing people away.

    Mr Day says they had banked on the Games being their cash cow.

    “We’ve lost quite a lot of money in the lead-up to the Games, so there’s nothing in the coffers. It won’t give us the build-up we’ve been looking forward to.”

    Minutes up the road, it’s a similar story in Surfers Paradise. Christine Broadway runs a bar with her son and is blaming the council and government for scaring people off.

    “The roads were going to be very busy; the traffic was going to be impossible, but the M1 was going to be blocked.”

    Many cafes and bars in the area are sharing similar stories of being practically empty, but there seems to be little sympathy from Mayor Tom Tate, or Games organisers.”

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/Commonwealth-Games/2018/04/gold-coast-businesses-empty-despite-commonwealth-games.html

    • Exkiwiforces 10.1
      8 April 2018 at 12:57 pm

      I wouldn’t read to much into it as the entire Australian retail sector has been struggling for a number of years now due to low wage growth and the high domestic household debt that the average Australian has atm. Sooner or later the interest rates will eventually go up and then things will get very interesting.

      The Gold Coast retailers were hoping the games would’ve help them get a boost as these of events in Oz do have a trend of helping the local retail sector out. But from what mother-law has said last week as she lives on the Goldie that transport in and round the Goldie is a bloody mess atm! To a point the locals have been told to stay at home WTF as she was looking to attend a couple of events before she comes up Darwin for few weeks to help with our new house.

      If you have a Twitter account? Check out Alan Kohlers graphs as he has some interesting ones of late showing what would a .25%, .50% and .75% interest rate would do to household debt also he has a few on Oz retail sales trends as well.

      Alan Kohler does the ABC’s Finance Report on the 7 o’clock news week night, does a articles in the Oz newspaper and has a Twitter Account which is wealth of information IRT graphs which are very interesting and some silly ones, but even those one have a interesting point to them.

    • alwyn 10.2
      8 April 2018 at 1:20 pm

      Keep this story in mind when the New Zealand and Auckland Governments tell you how wonderful the America’s cup is going to be for the city.
      Billions of dollars of income will be promised.
      What will happen? Auckland will find that people avoid the city if not interested in the yachting and after the event the city will be left with a white elephant.
      A complete waste of at least a quarter of a billion dollars.
      Why do politicians adore these circuses? Is it because they hope visiting Billionaires will feed them the very best Champagne and caviar?

      • savenz 10.2.1
        8 April 2018 at 2:53 pm

        visiting Billionaires will feed them the very best Champagne and caviar… don’t you mean the taxpayers of NZ will feed the billionaires the best Champagne and caviar… oh and build the America’s cup ‘charity’ a marina, steal some of the public harbour paid for with free ratepayer and tax payer funds.

        I have no problem with America’s cup and billionaires having a whale of a time, just not when the tab is put on the rest of society when there are more socially responsible things to spend the money on and the billionaires could raise the cash themselves.

        • alwyn 10.2.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 3:40 pm

          ” don’t you mean the taxpayers of NZ will feed the billionaires ”
          You are, unfortunately quite right. The Wellington City Council, with our Labour Mayor managed to spend $98,000 on a lavish dinner for some visiting Chinese, and a goodly number of the Councillors. A handful of ratepayers were invited according to the story.
          https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/102840947/Wellington-ratepayers-pick-up-98-000-cheque-for-councils-lavish-banquet

          Still we must keep our beloved Lester living in the style he desires. Bugger the little things like rubbish collection and playgrounds for children. Feed Lester the very best items on the menu seems to be the rule.
          I suppose we should be grateful that it was only $98,000. This time.
          Auckland will be flushing about two thousand five hundred times that amount on their folly.

          • tracey 10.2.1.1.1
            8 April 2018 at 3:47 pm

            I wonder how many of the guests were interpreters

          • Ad 10.2.1.1.2
            8 April 2018 at 4:59 pm

            You are clearly not used to courting investors.

            It takes money, often civic money.

            • alwyn 10.2.1.1.2.1
              8 April 2018 at 6:14 pm

              If they were really courting investors why did only “a handful of ratepayers” get invited. You aren’t going to tell me that you want our Local Government Council getting involved surely?
              Look at their last attempt. Our then Mayor got a bee in her bonnet that there were hordes of people wanting to fly out to China from Wellington. So they did a deal where the ratepayers subsidise a SIA flight from Wellington, via Australia, and then on to Singapore. Why would anyone want to go via Canberra, soon to be Melbourne, and on to Singapore rather than go straight through Auckland. That cuts out one lot of Customs and Immigration checks for a start.
              Meanwhile she also proposed extending the runway where the rate payer will pay and a private company gets the benefit. Forget it. If you really want to attract investors, without getting robbed blind, keep Councillors well away.

      • tracey 10.2.2
        8 April 2018 at 3:46 pm

        Most if not all major events cost more for cities to host than they ever get in return. Deloittes and others make big money writing reports for bidding cities etc which market the lie the city will make money.

        The boat building industry in NZ is strong, our designing industry is strong and has been for decades, regardless of weather we hosted the Americas Cup

      • Ad 10.2.3
        8 April 2018 at 4:58 pm

        That isn’t what happened last time or the time before that.

        Both Americas Cup facilities have gone on to redevelop from grimy heavy marine environments to places where tens of thousands of people visit and have a great time every week.

        Pop down some time and have a look at where the old bases were now.

        People avoiding the city during the racing will of course be living and shopping elsewhere in New Zealand. Who knows, maybe even Wellington.

        • alwyn 10.2.3.1
          8 April 2018 at 6:03 pm

          Pray tell me then.
          If the previous regatta bases were so successful why do we need a new one?
          What is wrong with the one that was used last time? Are they planning to spend close to a quarter of a billion dollars and then, should they win and get another chance start all over again?

  11. Kat 11
    8 April 2018 at 10:16 am

    Looking like the Greens turn to be dumped on this week. If that Duplicity woman is the first to kick off the weeks “pile on” does that mean she will be at the bottom of the pile by weeks end.

    • Ankerrawshark 11.1
      8 April 2018 at 2:47 pm

      Making political predictions as HDA has done for the second week in a row, is a fools game as seldom correct [ridiculous to predict an election 2 and a half years out) and anybody who follows politics knows this to be the case, think trump, brexit, even Jeremy Corbin’s near election victory. And even here at home with the results in 2017.

      It suggests to me either a lack of motivation or brain power to write something of substance. Or deliberately trying to spin the narrative or all three.

  12. joe90 12
    8 April 2018 at 10:17 am

    No, they’re not rogue landlords…they’re sexual predators.

    /

    To the unaware, the true meaning of some of the phrases used on the ads for tenants could be missed. Rooms for rent are offered in exchange for “benefits” or “keeping me company”. Others are less subtle – “free accommodation in exchange for an erotic arrangement”.

    Renting rooms for sexual favours is seen as a growing menace by campaigners, and a byproduct of a housing crisis where young people are unable to find somewhere to live without spending exorbitant sums.

    The problem has become particularly marked in university towns, where young women are targeted by rogue landlords. But while then justice secretary David Lidington last year said such offers may breach the Sexual Offences Act, there is frustration that more is not being done.

    “Since last year, there has not been a single arrest, let alone a conviction, let alone anybody actually going to jail for it,” says Peter Kyle, Labour MP for Hove.

    Kyle has been campaigning on the issue and has consistently called for landlords who offer accommodation in exchange for sex to be prosecuted.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/02/sex-for-rent-accommodation-rogue-landlords-campaign?

    • mary_a 12.1
      8 April 2018 at 6:34 pm

      Agree Joe 90 (12) … There was a situation many years ago in NZ, where a highly respected landlord preyed on the girl children of tenants! The young victims were too scared to say anything to their parents, because the landlord threatened if they did, he would throw the family out and tell the parents what their daughters “asked” him to do to them! Of course the young girls didn’t know any better and the result was, the devious sly bastard continued to sexually assault them! He got away with it, because apart from being highly respected in his community in those days a child was considered a liar to report such things and a denial from the man would have been believed above the statements of the child.

      This one now deceased thank Christ, would have been the rogue of landlord sexual predators! on young girls!

    • Draco T Bastard 12.2
      9 April 2018 at 10:02 am

      No, they’re not rogue landlords…they’re sexual predators.

      And they’re using the power that being capitalists gives them to abuse people.

      Of course, that’s capitalism hands down. It’s designed to give a few people power so that they can abuse people and bludge off of them.

      Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  13. joe90 13
    8 April 2018 at 10:33 am

    Murdered with one of the bullets the IDF said they knew exactly where they landed?

    A Palestinian journalist shot by Israeli forces during a mass demonstration along the Gaza border has died of his wounds.

    Yaser Murtaja, a photographer with the Gaza-based Ain Media agency, was shot in the stomach in Khuza’a in the south of the Gaza Strip on Friday, according to the Palestinian health ministry.

    Murtaja, 30, was hit despite wearing a blue flak jacket marked with the word “press”, indicating he was a journalist.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/palestinian-journalist-yasser-murtaja-dies-shot-israeli-forces-180407054201619.html

    https://twitter.com/btselem

  14. Muttonbird 14
    8 April 2018 at 10:44 am

    Trump Tower on fire. Perhaps his hairpiece got too close to the hot air…

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/04/trump-tower-in-new-york-on-fire.html

  15. joe90 15
    8 April 2018 at 10:49 am

    Another ponyboy special.

    And this is a slow-cooked Ombudsman special: NZDF admits spending millions with Palantir. https://t.co/ibvTgzoiue— Matt Nippert (@MattNippert) April 7, 2018

    The New Zealand Defence Force has spent millions on controversial spy software produced by secretive Silicon Valley firm Palantir.

    After refusing for more than a year to reveal the extent of links to Peter Thiel’s big data analysis company, prompting a complaint by the Herald on Sunday to the Ombudsman, the NZDF were forced to disclose annual spending with Palantir averaged $1.2 million.

    The figures suggest since contracts were first signed in 2012 the defence force has spent $7.2m with the firm.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12026641

  16. Muttonbird 16
    8 April 2018 at 11:02 am

    With regard to the attacks on the government for the petrol excise duty increases, particularly the criticism of Twyford calling it 10 cents over three years instead of 3 cents a year, could someone better at this than me find a graph on PED increases in the last 10 or 20 years?

    The PED now sits at 66 cents but it’s the successive increases which are important in comparing this government’s announcement with what has happened in the past.

    I have tried, honest, but don’t know where to look to get that particular info.

      • Muttonbird 16.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 11:16 am

        Thank you.

        Interesting GA had to do the research on the stats in question (it being their graph) rather than it being freely available in that form at MBIE.

        Interesting too that NZ has a relatively low tax to price ratio compared with other OECD countries. This is shown here. I guess that the high cost of the product in NZ means we’ve never charged what other countries do in excise which is required for decent infrastructure.

        Result? Poor quality roads and terrible public transport infrastructure.

  17. reason 17
    8 April 2018 at 11:30 am

    The Legatum Institute is a Stink Tank funded mainly by Chris Chandler … one of a pair of NZ Billionaire Brothers…. who operate their various business s / hedge funds / vulture capitalism from tax havens like Dubai .

    I call them a stink tank as opposed to a think tank … as among other things they rank countries in their own Legatum ‘prosperity index’.

    But as Oxfam has correctly pointed out, … tax havens are the biggest drivers of inequality and poverty in the world.

    Making Chandlers project like a trader in kiddie porn … lecturing people on children s well-being.

    They also employ discredited dishonest anti-russian hacks … and have been pumping out propaganda for quite a while … laying the ground work for the Mays and Clintons to pile it on even thicker.

    Here’s some quotes about Legatum … who are also lobbying for a ‘hard Brexit’ ….

    apparently nothing to do with tax dodging Billionaires who do not like the EU … with all its regulations … standing in the way of their vulture / disaster capitalism
    .
    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/the-hunters-become-the-hunted/
    “In an ironic twist of fate, those shouting loudest about Russian ‘fake news’ and demanding that the West take action against RT and other Russian media outlets, are now finding themselves accused of being Russian agents. It is, of course, completely absurd. But I can’t help thinking that what goes around comes around, and that Legatum and co. have only themselves to blame for their predicament. In creating the hysteria about Russian interference in Western politics, they established the conditions which made the assault on their own position possible. If you start a witch-hunt, you shouldn’t be surprised if one day the Witchfinder General comes looking for you.”

    “Chandler has made a fortune from so-called disaster capitalism – taking advantage in countries either politically or economically destabilised. What is this foreign national doing by meddling in Britain’s future one wonders.” Chandler has made a fortune from so-called disaster capitalism – taking advantage in countries either politically or economically destabilised. What is this foreign national doing by meddling in Britain’s future one wonders.”

    ” Liberal Democrat MP Tom Brake insisted it was “clear” the Government was “extremely sensitive about their very close relationship with the Legatum Institute. …He said: “Ministers must distance themselves from a ‘think tank’ whose agenda is leading the UK to a disastrous no deal Brexit that would inflict permanent damage on UK families and jobs.” https://news.sky.com/story/brexiteers-favourite-think-tank-the-legatum-institue-rejects-russia-link-11145291

    “Johnson and Gove’s Legatum-backed letter, revealed by The Mail on Sunday a fortnight ago, made three key demands to Mrs May: to force Chancellor Philip Hammond to do more to plan for a ‘hard Brexit’; to use our withdrawal from the EU to scrap swathes of rules and regulations; and to appoint a new ‘Brexit Tsar’ to head up a task force within Whitehall….All three demands seem to have been met. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5117547/Putins-link-Boris-Goves-Brexit-coup-revealed.html

    “According to the Legatum Institute, anybody who doesn’t agree with them is under the control of Moscow’s security services. The notion that an individual might have an honest personal opinion that differs from their worldview is unfathomable for these intrepid, self-appointed defenders of freedom…….You’ve read this correctly. A think-tank which claims to be devoted to “revitalising” democracy is smearing its opponents as ‘spooks’. Not just any old sort either – KGB agents. https://www.rt.com/op-ed/322968-legatum-kgb-russia-applebaum/

    “Billionaire founder of think tank that advocates leaving single market obtains right to work anywhere in Europe” ….”Christopher Chandler, founder of Legatum, which backs leaving the single market and the customs union, has become a citizen of the Mediterranean island ……..Critics branded the move double standards as the passport would give him the right to live and work in any European country. A hard Brexit is expected to leave Britons without that same privilege.” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexiteer-hard-brexit-eu-passport-buy-malta-christopher-chandler-single-market-customs-union-a8185336.html

    “The founder of the libertarian thinktank, Christopher Chandler, is a New Zealand-born financier who made a fortune in the “wild capitalism” days in Russia in the 90s when state-run companies were privatised. His former company, Sovereign Global, was the largest foreign portfolio investor in Russia by 1994…. The company’s investments are believed to have netted Mr Chandler and his brother Richard several billion dollars and by 2012 they were the fourth largest investors in Gazprom – the Russian gas company which has since been taken partly back into state control,” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-thinktank-russia-legatum-institute-boris-johnson-michael-gove-christopher-chandler-a8076436.html

    Chandler is based in Dubai …. a good place for money laundering and extreme misogyny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmwBXPYdtA

  18. One Anonymous Bloke 18
    8 April 2018 at 12:30 pm

    Walker on Pie.

    I write him to be wrong, sometimes…

  19. Bill 19
    8 April 2018 at 2:05 pm

    Aw ffs.

    Here we go.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-chemical-weapons-civilians-killed-douma-eastern-ghouta-damascus-a8294296.html

    And cue the predictable “falling in behind” that would have us believe that an army on the cusp of victory, that has proceeded slowly in retaking urban areas and evacuated as many civilians as it could, would unload chemical weapons for the sake of…well, what’s it going to be?

    Because they could? Because they have a track record (allegedly)? Because they’re just mad and bad?

    Oh, I know! They were wanting to grab those international news headlines again. Bloody ego-ists!

    And there will be no talk of beleaguered terrorists topping members of a captive civilian population who aren’t properly ideologically aligned for propaganda purposes. That, afterall, is an insane suggestion to make about “rebels”.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1
      8 April 2018 at 2:27 pm

      According to the Syrian official narrative, there has been no CW attack at all. The only person suggesting that “the rebels did it” is you.

      • Bill 19.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 5:36 pm

        You pretending, or have your reading comprehension levels really hit the depths your comment suggests?

    • Ed 19.2
      8 April 2018 at 4:53 pm

      Timed with the Russian spy story.
      So predictable.

      And the Guardian is in there,boots and all blaming the government.
      How predictable.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/08/syrian-government-accused-of-chemical-attacks-on-civilians-in-eastern-ghouta

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1
        8 April 2018 at 5:44 pm

        Reporting that someone has been accused is not the same as blaming them. Twisting peoples words like that is very uncivil of you.

    • Brigid 19.3
      8 April 2018 at 5:42 pm

      The poor young RNZ news reader is having to parrot the propaganda unfortunately, with the proviso, though, that no independent reports have been received. I guess that’s something.
      The report is from the white helmets. A ‘Syrian based NGO’. Hilarious.

      Though it’s not funny at all.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.3.1
        8 April 2018 at 5:56 pm

        You believe the Damascus official narrative about the WHs then?

        • adam 19.3.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 7:02 pm

          Funny when journalist who have been to Syria call the White Helmets nothing more than a propaganda tool, you do have to ask who for. The journalist being Pilger, Fisk and others.

          Odd One Anonymous Bloke, for a guy who believes we can blame the Russians, because they have a track record, you rather unwilling to apply the same methodology to the head choppers in Syria. You should, you might just learn that they are nasty, manipulative and vicious killers, not democratic loving individuals some in the west want to portray them as.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 19.3.1.1.1
            8 April 2018 at 7:17 pm

            Do you believe the official narrative from Damascus? From the Snopes article linked above:

            The accusations seem to be levied at the group based on political motivations, not evidence.

            You should stop pretending that you can summarise what I think, Adam. Or that you are teaching me something about “headchoppers” – for one thing I’m suspicious of all such dehumanising labels.

            I believe that the most plausible explanation for the Salisbury poisoning is that the Kremlin is involved NOT that we can “blame the Russians”. I believe I have explained this to you before. If you can’t argue with my comments without misrepresenting them that says something about you, and nothing whatsoever about my arguments.

            Lift your game. National Party tactics won’t help you.

            • adam 19.3.1.1.1.1
              8 April 2018 at 11:01 pm

              Wow One Anonymous bloke, did I hit a nerve did I?

              National party tactics, misrepresentation, calling me a supporter of Damascus.

              Yeap, I hit a nerve.

              Funny I’ve explained to you over and over who I support in Syria – seems you never get it.

              Oh and by the way there’s a reason to call them head choppers, they chop off heads. It might be a bit much for you making a moral decision at this point, but by the very action of killing human beings in such a barbaric way, they gave up on humanity. And yes I think of them as somthing less than human.

              I can’t think of any human being I’ve met who thinks it’s normal to cut off someone’s head to prove a religious, or political point, or in the name of power.

              I will call them what they are, head choppers, becasue when the barbarity is that obvious, it is a disservice to humanity to brush over their murderous ways.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                9 April 2018 at 5:11 am

                That particular nerve has been “hit” so many times it’s gone numb.

                I’m sure someone’s trying to brush over their murderous ways, but it ain’t me.

          • Brigid 19.3.1.1.2
            8 April 2018 at 8:35 pm

            oab obviously hasn’t a clue who the white helmets are

            • One Anonymous Bloke 19.3.1.1.2.1
              9 April 2018 at 4:57 am

              Personalising the discussion won’t help you.

              Most likely, they’re a search and rescue operation whose activities are often used for propaganda purposes, especially since they’ve received funding and resources from a wide range of Western sources.

              However, since most of the information about them comes from a civil war zone, I’d be a fool to think that I “know” that. Hence the phrase “most likely”.

        • Bill 19.3.1.2
          8 April 2018 at 8:14 pm

          Because that’s the only option, right?

          a) Believe western government takes or, b) believe other government’s takes (or, laughably, what you interpret from such a bastion of rigorous analysis as Snopes to be the line of other governments)

          In other words (to paraphrase Bush, and yes, somewhat ironically given this topic) you’re either with us or against us 🙄

          • One Anonymous Bloke 19.3.1.2.1
            8 April 2018 at 9:23 pm

            Nope. Shades of grey.

            • adam 19.3.1.2.1.1
              8 April 2018 at 11:02 pm

              Post modern piffle.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                9 April 2018 at 5:03 am

                In fact, that’s exactly what Bill said: the notion that your only options are (a) or (b), when experience tells us that the ‘truth’ is probably some third thing entirely.

                So if you think Bill is guilty of “post-modern piffle” I suggest you take it up with him.

        • Brigid 19.3.1.3
          8 April 2018 at 8:34 pm

          Do you?

      • Ed 19.3.2
        8 April 2018 at 7:04 pm

        The White Helmets
        Everyone knows they’re a propaganda front for ISIS and other headchoppers

    • Ed 19.4
      8 April 2018 at 10:04 pm

      And now RNZ repeat the propaganda…..
      Sure enough – the underling message is ‘Blame Russia.’ as usual.
      RNZ do not question the propaganda about the white helmets and accept their lies without any challenge.
      Journalism is basically dead in the mainstream. It serves the neoliberal establishment and its lust for war.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/354447/syria-toxic-gas-attack-kills-at-least-70-in-douma

  20. tracey 20
    8 April 2018 at 3:48 pm

    Interesting perspective on the #metoo movement by Tony Robbins

    https://youtu.be/74YILhy4RgE

  21. McFlock 21
    8 April 2018 at 4:10 pm

    @ Tracey comment 20

    That woman had serious guts.

    Interesting look at Robbins’ act, too. A very well-oiled team. Shame it seemed to be mostly platitude and reflex responses.

    • tracey 21.1
      8 April 2018 at 4:21 pm

      I agree. She stands her ground. Even when he seems to use his physical superiority to help her see sense.

      • joe90 21.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 4:38 pm

        Like Robbins, I’m a rather large human and it was obvious to me he that was using his size to physically intimidate the woman, prick was leading with his fist, and dollars to donuts, he’s a fucking expert at it.

        • McFlock 21.1.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 5:10 pm

          Not to mention using the crowd. The “raise your arm” thing is a neat trick – it keeps the audience awake, but also creates group compliance, and makes it even more intimidating to try and discuss something with him.

          Interesting variation on “sorry, not sorry”: his version was ‘I’m showing great integrity by not being sorry’.

          I was intrigued that a downside of #metoo was, according to Robbins, that attractive women are discriminated against because male employers can’t trust themselves to avoid harrassing attractive women. Sigh.

      • joe90 21.1.2
        8 April 2018 at 8:28 pm

        Nanine McCool interview.

        edit: more live chat, actually

        https://www.facebook.com/destingerekprofile/videos/1349300891838871/

  22. red-blooded 22
    8 April 2018 at 8:26 pm

    Keep an eye out for the article by Simon Wilson that’s coming out in tomorrow’s Herald. Apparently he’s interviewed Johnathan Coleman, who “said some pretty surprising things about Middlemore Hospital”.

    • Incognito 22.1
      8 April 2018 at 8:41 pm

      “Ich habe es nicht gewußt”, by any chance?

    • veutoviper 22.2
      8 April 2018 at 9:49 pm

      That sent me rushing to Simon’s Twitter account. Damn, no clues. But liked Kirsty Johnston’s comment that “So he is real?”. Also see Simon fully endorsed Lizzy’s article. Well suppose we have only a few hours to wait. Thanks for the alert.

  23. Muttonbird 23
    8 April 2018 at 9:03 pm

    A well needed piece by Colin Peacock on RNZ. A straight counter argument to the corporate backers of NZME and why we so desperately need RNZ to turn the mirror on conservative media more often.

    I wonder if this piece and more to come are a sign that principled journalists at RNZ are actually sick to the stomach about the attack on their organisation by the Herald in the last two weeks.

    If there’s going to be a media war I know whose side I’m on…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018639331/transport-plan-sparks-front-page-road-rage

    • Pat 23.1
      8 April 2018 at 9:31 pm

      “How are we going to face up to the big difficult issues if politicians and commentators prefer the lazy option of easy trash talk?” he asked.

      How indeed…..too much noise and not enough thought.

  24. Ed 24
    8 April 2018 at 9:42 pm

    So was it food poisoning after all those lies about spies?
    The Moon of Alabama explains.

    “On Wednesday the niece of Sergej Skripal, Viktoria Skripal, received a phone call from Yulia Skripal. She was interviewed by a Russian TV station and suggested that food poisoning might have been the real cause of the calamities her relatives were in:
    “Did they eat a dish that one cannot eat, or is it banned in England?
    “The first signs when they were found were very similar to fish poisoning.”
    Victoria intended to visit the UK and to bring Yulia back home to Moscow. The United Kingdom just rejected Victoria Skripal’s visa application because she “did not comply with the immigration rules.” No further explanation was given.”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49168.htm

    • McFlock 24.1
      8 April 2018 at 9:54 pm

      OMG now the nutbars really are blaming FUGU!

      lolz

      What about the cops?

      • Ed 24.1.1
        8 April 2018 at 9:58 pm

        Mike Smith recommended this source to us all.

        Is the ex-president of the Labour Party a nut bar?

        • McFlock 24.1.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 10:05 pm

          Quite possibly, I don’t know the man.

          But if the Skripals had food poisoning, what did the cops have? Exposure to latent traces of a fish dinner?

          • Ed 24.1.1.1.1
            8 April 2018 at 10:10 pm

            I don’t believe the story.
            The policeman’s predicament points to poison.

            • McFlock 24.1.1.1.1.1
              8 April 2018 at 10:29 pm

              So which direction does your pointy sense point towards the poisoners?

              • Ed …
                8 April 2018 at 10:30 pm

                Don’t know to be honest

                • McFlock …
                  8 April 2018 at 10:37 pm

                  If everybody is equally bad (let’s just table that one for a bit), who has the greatest benefit for the least risk (and complexity is risk)?

                  • Ed …
                    8 April 2018 at 10:45 pm

                    I’m interested in your theory.
                    I like detective mystery thrillers.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 April 2018 at 11:04 pm

                      I think I’ve already stated my case ad nauseum.

                      Such a shame about your pointy-sense, failing you just when you were about to form your own opinion rather than parroting other people’s sites.

          • mauī 24.1.1.1.2
            8 April 2018 at 10:21 pm

            Was the policeman the first one to notice them collapsed on the park bench and administer aid. Why not a member of the public?

          • Stuart Munro 24.1.1.1.3
            8 April 2018 at 10:27 pm

            Fish is not a likely source to hospitalize people for much over a week.

            The common fish sourced food poisonings – staph aureus, e coli, salmonella, even listeria rarely put people out for two weeks, and are readily identified.

            This MOOA claim is not tenable.

            • Incognito 24.1.1.1.3.1
              8 April 2018 at 10:45 pm

              Sure, but the ‘food poison’ had already been positively ‘identified’ and confirmed by the UK Government as Novichok …

              Remember the Fonterra botulism debacle? How long did it take to get to the bottom of that? Minimal or no involvement of real experts, just spin doctors and journalists too hungry & desperate for a story?

      • Incognito 24.1.2
        8 April 2018 at 10:10 pm

        Actually, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxitoxin; it was in the link in Ed’s comment. Tetrodotoxin is something different.

        I would have thought that other customers of Zizzi would have suffered similar symptoms. Then again, it may have been a quiet time with not many people ordering seafood pizza. It would have been coincidence if Nick Bailey just happened to have eaten something at or from Zizzi at around the same time – was it lunch time by any chance?

        • McFlock 24.1.2.1
          8 April 2018 at 10:24 pm

          I didn’t bother with Ed’s link, but on the basis of “fish poison” excluded saxitoxin because that causes mouth dryness rather than foaming at the mouth.

          I also excluded things like campylobacter, because of the lack of reports of vomiting etc.

          Yeah, it’d be an amazing coincidence if three cops had the same fish lunch at the same place as the Skripals on the same day, all come down with symptoms to varying degrees, but no, like, plumbers or accountants also had the fish for lunch. Like all the disinformation theoretically possible, but… come on, really?

          • Incognito 24.1.2.1.1
            8 April 2018 at 10:40 pm

            Good point; I once experienced a suspected fish poisoning myself but no frothing at the mouth – I only experience this when reading the comments of some RWNJs here 😉 Nevertheless, some food poisoning symptoms can resemble poisoning with organophosphates (e.g. insecticides).

            Cops are known to have lunch together. And it could have been just one little fish or mushroom carrying the poison and this would have limited the transfer to only a few victims instead of poisoning all customers of Zizzi that day.

            • McFlock 24.1.2.1.1.1
              8 April 2018 at 10:52 pm

              Yeah, it’s possible in theory, but relies on readers not knowing where the cops had lunch that day. Like the entire “the doorhandle would have been soaked by the rain” thing – nobody knows if it was raining when the Skripals left the house, or if the rain was blowing into the door or away from it.

              But we do know that the officers and the Skripals all had contact with the flat, and the symptoms seem to be explained by some sort of nerve toxin/agent.

              Which basically leaves “it’s a really weird coincidence and Porton Down are incompetent” vs “somebody used an exotic poison to poison several people (with subsets of ‘intentional harm by another person’ and ‘unintentional self-injury’)”.

              • Ed …
                8 April 2018 at 10:54 pm

                Wonder if we’ll ever know.

                • McFlock …
                  8 April 2018 at 11:01 pm

                  That all depends on the level of probability you regard as “knowledge”.

                  • eco maori …
                    9 April 2018 at 7:56 am

                    The AM Show Duncan Marama handled your interview well I did hope she would win the Co leadership of the Greenparty .
                    Congratulations Marama its a good thing having you as Co Leader Mana Wahine this will lift the mana of all whaine and Maori ka pai.
                    Our New Zealand Netball Team has been in a decline for a few years
                    I say its management someone in that organization is making all the wrong calls to me it looks intentional the generals are to blame enough said .
                    I went to see the Whano and tupuna it was a one in a hundred year event the new Carvings going up on Pokai Marae my hupu has a lot of Mana and the Whano have restored that with all the mahi they put into achiveing this great feat my Marae is right at the end of a long gravel road and it is thriving.
                    Mark and Amanda the shonky party deliberately set the welfare systems up so one has to do that to survive and that gives him easy targets to damage brown peoples mana whom needs the service the most big brother now sees all with the tec they have now .He most he gave millions to wealthy people in tax cuts and other subsides to rich irrigation farms down south and starved the reigns that have high Maori populations this phenomenon is steering US in the eyes heaps of money has poured into sports that the wealthy minority participate in these sports that are to expenses for the common person to participate in I will not name these sports if you look you will see it. Duncan you have a interview with one of those people who should retire himself and his views .Mark the only thing shonky did was line his hip pocket and his m8 and try to suppress brown people . Ana to kai Kia kaha ka kite ano

  25. eco maori 25
    9 April 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Newshub I had to jump through a few hoops to get this out my sky is in rain faves no reciption my computer x2 cannot get the standard site I have 2 use my old computer to get TV 3 livestreaming and use my Phone to put up this post I will always solve a problem that’s the Rooster way I have the Phoenix – – – –

    That’s a tragedy the Broncos Canadian Ice hockey team condolences to all their families and friends.
    What a beautiful Tui They are a beautiful bird we can thank The department of Conservation for all our wild life that are surviving this fast pase of industrialisation that mostly base the choices they make on money and not the long term survival of Papatuanukue and her Creations.
    Its good having the Common wealth games on the Gold Coast OUR New Zealand stars yes they are all brilliant stars in
    ECO MAORI Eyes will have alot of support.
    Kia kaha Ka kite ano P.S its awesome to see OUR Pacific Island cousin winning medals to Kia kaha

    • eco maori 25.1
      9 April 2018 at 6:54 pm

      I will be supporting The Crowd Goes Wild TV 4 Ana to kai P.S some people know which side there bread is butter on.

      • eco maori 25.1.1
        9 April 2018 at 7:03 pm

        PIO Has more humor in his little toe than most of the new Comedians I have seen Ana to kai

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