However, the report notes that welfare numbers have declined faster than unemployment in recent years, suggesting that not all those pushed off benefits have found jobs.
“Just what has happened to these people, and whether they are better or worse off, is a mystery.”
Maybe they are living in cars, garages, or on the street?
According to our journalists crime is rising because of criminals having a change of circumstances or to feed a drug/alcohol habit. Fairly lacklustre analysis I have to say and supports what theyve told their middle class readers for decades.
Wage and salary earners saw an on average $10 per week increase between Decembers 2015 and 2016.
This tells us nothing about the situation for those on the lowest incomes, especially the bottom 10-20%. An average increase could all be accounted for rises in incomes of the highest paid.
Average house prices in the City of Sails topped $1 million in 2016, while rent increases outpaced income growth.
Yes poverty is a huge problem in NZ for many people.
Personally I’ve not much time for the Sallies, they are well known in Motueka for throwing away thousands of good quality items in their skip.
We have a couple of charity shops here, Red Cross has a free rack outside their store, free clothes and other bits and pieces, rather than dumping it in a skip.
Meanwhile the Motueka Salvation Army store offers free coat hangers and magazines, that’s it, the clothes that they don’t want, shoes, toys etc they would rather throw them in the skip than offer items free to the poor. This has been happening for years, and is disgusting. Items that they place in their store but don’t sell, they throw into their skip.
Many locals boycott the Sallies here for the reasons above.
To any whom run charity stores, if you really want to do something to help people in poverty who are often too embarrassed to ask for help, put up a ‘free’ rack of clothes outside, not clothes hangers and magazines, that won’t keep people warm.
There has been a huge shift in NZ involving what were formerly ‘Op Shops’ becoming ‘alternative retailers’. I’ve a friend did her dissertation on the phenomenon – not good.
And yes, it means that stuff gets skipped (much of it fine) and it also means that prices rise.
As a book dealer my advice is…do not bother donating old books to the op shops, unless you regularly see collectible old books on their shelves, as for the most part you might as well dump them in the skip yourself.
Certain large op shop organisations are throwing away absolute treasures, that do not even make it to the shelves, as they have strange ideas about things being ‘old’. Danielle Steele books…excellent…150 year old ‘Origin of the Species’…rubbish.
We have had repeated ‘discussions’ with head office, and have offered to buy certain old books that are being thrown straight into the bin, but no, they would rather throw money away. In fact, they INSIST on throwing these books away. They do not even want us to tell them which books are valuable!!
And then, even odder, complain about the cost of disposing of ‘rubbish’.
Its inexplicable and a tragedy when you think of the heirlooms being handed over in good faith. Let alone the money lost.
Why they do not hire some old ‘dealers’, and there must be enough of them out there, to sort this situation out is inexplicable.
As an organisation they do good work in highlighting poverty…but they have some very odd ideas, and not just about old books.
Over several years I bought knives at a re-use store at 50 cents each, – amongst them quality blades (Santoku, Sheffield, Victorinox, Atlantic Chef, Solingen) in great condition and collectively worth hundreds of dollars.
Yep, I just built a sunroom over the top of our deck, at some point we’re going to cover the decking with cementBoard and tile but in the meantime, I just wanted to paint the decking to tidy it up a bit.
Went down to the dump, 4 litre tin of timbacryl in dark grey $10, normally $100 at Bunnings.
Property empty most of the time is owned by ‘charity’ exempt from tax organizations. As church going decline the properties wont be sold as they are part of large portfolios that keep other properties rented out for more. Given how low dense Nz is, foot traffic being so important to business, is kept higher retail rents but lower foot traffic. And then dont get me started about new builds, putting up one floor homes on corner sites, its just crazy econmics, higher fott traffic would suggest highe buildings with shops. But retail like property is stuffed in NZ, lots of rent seeking behavior holding NZ back.
At least eight million tonnes of plastics find their way into the ocean every year—equal to one garbage truckful every minute, said the report by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, which included analysis by the McKinsey Centre for Business and Environment.
“If no action is taken, this is expected to increase to two per minute by 2030 and four per minute by 2050,” it said, with packaging estimated to represent the largest share of the pollution.
Hands up, all those who think that individual action could have saved this poor creature’s life?
“Dead whale’s stomach clogged with plastic”
“The haul of plastic, which also included sweet wrappers and plastic bread bags, had blocked the Cuvier’s beaked whale’s digestive system, according to experts from the University of Bergen who found no traces of food.”
Would it be too much to ask for a 50 cents recycling fee for each plastic container and each piece of plastic packaging, to properly kick start a recycling industry with hundreds of jobs?
I am old enough to remember when Muldoon under lobbying from the packaging industry got rid of the refunds for used glass bottles. After which the the country (and the world) was flooded with a huge increase in plastic packaging.
Why can’t we bring back this useful idea?
I know that in the modern neo-liberal regime that we are not allowed to put any constraints on the free market.
I questioned some LP members on what the LP is doing for west and south Aucklanders and urban Māori. Some said Willie Jackson understood west and South Aucklanders and urban Māori.
Today onne blogger and social media commentator has questioned whether Jackson really does understand, or will do anything much for urban Maori.
Also think ppl need to be careful (me included) about saying X represents Y. e.g. “WJ represents urban Māori” or “urban Māori left behind”
WJ represents an “authority” that provides services to urban Māori. He does not politically represent our diverse views.
Urban Māori are also not “all left behind”, ie suffering hardship. Many of our kaupapa whānau are but not all. So not a good metric since…
The largest Māori pop is Auckland, which is home to many in professionals sector. Also read @teataotu journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00…
ie she’s saying Māori are a diverse group, and we should beware of assuming they are all the same. And has since tweeted she is thinking of putting her thoughts on this into a post.
Trump exaggerates, yeah lies, yet gets votes. So you have to ask yourself why. Some form of cut through obviously. Now contrast how a labour MP deals with Jackson on morning tv1. Boring, uncontroversial, weak defensive. Key called the whole opposition a bunch of rapist supporters while welcoming rapist thrownout of Oz.
Now the fact that Labour still play like wet squid while nasty nats slag them is sure principled, its also stupid, since a politician should know how both not to sledge while suggesting it and also enlightening us about their position. Labour refuses to ditch neo-lib edicts, unlike Trump who expresses himself woefully yet still kicks neolibs.
This is why the left fails, and yes needs less saints like Jackson in its ranks. We want you to fight our corner, less so the oh your high principles that keep us from gaining a gist of your thinking, heart, soul, etc.
When the banker Key trades and becime successful, the idea the Labour would not hold him accoutable for shitty rivers, poor roads, faulting drugs, by actually question his credentials as a master of the economy, says something deep about the Labour out of touchness.
Clinton smiliarly married to the President who famous slogan, its the economy stupid, could not consider the impact that fuelled Sanders supporters.
The left have for too long conceeded, become weakened, by their inane strategy of not attacking the econmics of stupid that is Thacherism. Or as we know here in NZ rogernomics.
Labour have to soul search, Clark won when neolibs were untested, now hey are found unwanted and flawed, so where is Labour. You can be principled, anti neolib, and strong on the economy. We are all free traders, we all want fewer ticket clippers, so wht does Labour accept that being anti tppa means being anti free trade!
Some of my Whanau are urban Maori and they have benefited the most from working for families.
Politics are completely outside their lives. I doubt they have even heard of Willy Jackson or be on the Maori roll and he will not influence them in any way to vote.
They are on one income, 2 kids, work a 6 day week and get only $650 (in Auckland that is nothing) but working for families top them up approx $200.
Working for families has been the biggest policy to help them.
Personally think Labour or Mana will do the most for them with policies that target them. Or someone like Sue Bradford that understands they need help, just to navigate to get the help. WINZ are a waste of time for them and their attitude just puts them off going to them.
State housing would also help them. But they work in an expensive area of Auckland. I don’t think there are any state houses there not sold off. That is also one of the disasters for the poor that State houses used to be everywhere and so there was a cross section of the community in each area. Not rich ghettos like we are getting.
On minimum wages a mortgage of $300,000 is max, so essentially the so called affordable houses of $500,000 or $600,000 being built to replace the state houses are out of their reach.
In my parents day, the state actually built houses on mass to sell to families. But with immigration at the levels they are not only are there not enough rentals or houses but how could you afford to build enough for the amount of people needing them and coming in?
The Maori party has let urban Maori down by collaborating with National and making their lives worse by their appalling policies against the poor.
I’m not a fan of Willy Jackson, and think he’s going to put off more voters than he attracts. In particular putting off women and anyone against Charter schools.
Labour already have Nash, with pretty extreme views.
Oh do pull your head out of your ass. Sorry for the language, but I’m over it.
So a M.P. spoke up about her portfolio, then the bloke brigade got all upset. Left wing men had a tizzy, and we have to listen to them moan for weeks on end now. Left wing men in this country need there heads in the game, that was not disunity or messy. That was politics, so grow up.
It’s not that an MP spoke up about her portfolio, it’s about making it PUBLIC, politicians are supposed to exercise diplomacy, if this is an example of diplomacy in the political arena , then getting a change of Govt isn’t going to happen any time soon………
I read the Soper bit and translated it into what it really said; to whit, “Bill English is a liar.”
I then translated that into what it really meant; to whit, “We have another lying bastard Prime Minister and it is simply accepted without saying it like it is.”
“English says notes were taken, which assumes someone was listening into the call. At one point, recalling the call as Parliament resumed, he initially said it wasn’t being eavesdropped on because it was a personal call. But then, in the next breath, he agreed someone was listening in, which would make sense if notes were being taken.”
Most likely you are simply expressing your own pre-existing belief.
Brian Rudman has a column showing that Trump is not as bad as some previous administrations. Our “friends” in USA have a lot to face up to.
“His now saintly predecessor, Barack Obama, did not just contemplate such tactics. For eight years he employed remote controlled drone gunships to hunt down suspected terrorists, blasting away at homes, villages, wedding and funeral processions and anyone unlucky enough to be in their way, across a huge swathe of the Islamic crescent, from Pakistan to Somalia. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism reported last month of 546 confirmed drone strikes against suspected terrorists in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan under Obama.
Rudman doesn’t seem to grasp the difference between the fact that committing to military action means committing to the possibility or likelihood of civilian casualties, and the fact that deliberately targeting civilians for murder is a war crime. Obama was doing the first one; Trump’s proposal to kill relatives of terrorists is the second.
Readers who share Rudman’s difficulty with this concept should consider that the British killed a large number of French civilians while getting the Germans out of Caen in 1944, mostly by carpet-bombing the place, while Einsatzgruppe A killed a large number of Lithuanian civilians while getting the Jews out of Lithuania in 1941, mostly by lining them up on the edge of a pre-dug mass grave and shooting them into it. International law treats those two actions differently, for reasons that hopefully are obvious.
In between the mad fanatics of Isis and the many and varied foreign powers dropping bombs from above, their dictator for life continues to slaughter those who speak against him.
Labour’s Poto Williams hired a private public relations firm to craft her statement on Willie Jackson joining the party.
Christchurch-based Inform PR sent out a statement from Ms Williams condemning her leader Andrew Little’s decision to welcome Mr Jackson into the Labour fold.
Crikey. This moves from an impassioned critique to something more planned and deliberate. There’s a process to follow in selecting list candidates. Williams should have addressed her concerns to the committee that determines list selection.
I just thought Labour had got past disunity and airing dirty laundry.
Real life? I dunno man, in real life if working stiffs like the rest of us disagree with our boss, hiring a PR company to help us undermine them with social media postings instead of dealing with the outcome of their decision invariably gets us fired. I know some will say that a political party is not a regular company, but the point quite clearly stands when you’re talking about someone who is out to represent us cog-in-the-wheel 99%ers on a political level.
It looks really out of touch with what we get to do or how we get to deal with what life hands us. If we get consulted on change, but the boss’ final decision doesn’t deliver 100% of what we wanted, we either deal or leave. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to ask the same of those who purport to represent our interest as ‘Labour’. What’s the point of having a leader if you get to choose when it is or isn’t important to back their decisions – decisions which we now know were arrived at *after* consultation? I’ve been a cleaner. I’ve been a chef. I’ve been a storeman. I’ve worked in a number of roles in commercial research. If at any time I’m asked to do work which goes against what I feel is a principle I hold, I weigh that against what it would mean to leave – my principles vs my rent (or these days, my mortgage); my principles vs how my family will be affected, or how my bills will be paid. I don’t get to have it both ways, and neither do most of us working stiffs. I resent the idea that politicians should get to have it different to the rest of us.
But the thing is that Little is the caucus leader. He doesn’t sign mp pay cheques. He can’t overrule party democratic processes by pre-empting list selection. He was elected leader by the same organisation that organises list selection.
Williams represents Christchurch East. Her role in the caucus follows from her experiences in social services.
Little is not her “boss”. He’s the caucus leader, not a dictator. Consultation does not mean that you have to consent to the outcome. Yes, this causus difficulty, mainly because he failed to lead before this was all publicly announced.
Worst case scenario, Little sends her to the back bench. That’s the worst he can do as leader. The best he can do is to somehow build this incident into a learning experience and a point of strength.
Yes yes, I see what you are saying about how the Labour party works – but my post was about looking beyond that to how it compares to those of us out here in that ‘real world’ cited by LP above. And how it looks to us when people purporting to represent us act like you can spit the dummy if you don’t get 100% of the outcomes you want. We can condescendingly call it ‘wage slavery’, but for us 99%ers, that’s what we live with – a ‘real world’ where principles and consequences can often not balance, and where our choices in those instances are deal or quit. We know she was consulted by her leader, and we know that his final decision was not what she wanted. So she hired a PR company to sabotage his decision. I don’t care what Labour’s rules are, Labour are representing people who don’t get to do that in these circumstances. And when you have politicians who get to do things we don’t, they aren’t going to be in the right mentality to represent us. Again, what’s the point of having a leader if nobody in caucus thinks you get to choose when you abide by their decisions or trust their strategy?
Well, firstly I don’t think it’s fair to portray the issue as not getting 100% of what you want. WJ’s comments were pretty objectionable. Regardless of Little’s decision, he should have known that someone prominent was going to be pissed – and if he were a better leader, he would have recognised the strength of feeling from some in his own caucus.
She allegedly hired a pr company. We don’t know whether this was a regular relationship that a public figure might have to maintain a consistent image, or whether it was specifically for this job. We don’t know whether the job was to harm Labour or Little, or act as advisor on how to moderate the conflict between minimising the damage to the party and to Little, while at the same time expressing the sentiments that she felt obliged to express.
What if Little decided that Labour was no longer for a nuclear free NZ? Or arbitrarily announced that Shane Jones was back as as an MP, or even David Garrett?
Labour are representing employees, who don’t have the same freedom as MPs. MPs can talk about anyone they want in the House without fear of being sued, for example.
But let me put it this way: which would be the biggest flaw in the Labour party: the argument we’re having now, or the argument we don’t have because the Labour spokesperson on domestic violence refuses to speak out when the party leader announces he’s parachuting to the upper reaches of the list someone who recently called rape “mischief”? The first is when the leader screws up but someone else does their job. The second is when they both fail to do their job.
That final point might be relevant if Jackson had refused to acknowledge that he was out of line or had refused to confront how bone-headed it was, but we know that Jackson apologised, and we’ve heard that he also put in extra time with the community. I’ve heard some claim it’s a Clayton’s apology, but ultimately the tone of these comments suggest that they aren’t interested in his apology. Do you assert that he cannot be redeemed? Is that the position you’d like the Labour spokesperson on domestic violence to take? He’s not exactly Tony fucking Veitch.
You still bring it back to this idea: Williams was “expressing the sentiments that she felt obliged to express.” On social media. In the middle of Waitangi weekend media coverage. Again, us 99%ers don’t get to do this kind of thing when we disagree with leaders’ strategy – we are obliged to make other decisions. But our would-be representatives in politics feel obliged to enjoy other luxuries which we don’t get.
“What if Little decided that Labour was no longer for a nuclear free NZ? Or arbitrarily announced that Shane Jones was back as as an MP, or even David Garrett?”
We’re not talking about that though, are we. Also, you say “arbitrarily announced”; we know that he didn’t arbitrarily announce it. He consulted her – presumably in his capacity as *leader*. But his decision wasn’t the one she wanted, so she got her PR firm to craft her a social media campaign to undermine his decision, which the press is now gleefully holding up as evidence that Labour’s recovery is a sham. Bravo.
Hey look, I can understand why you find it justified – I’m not saying you don’t make valid points in the context of politics and what Labour MPs are entitled to do. You probably know far more than me about this stuff. But can you understand how terrible it looks to working people who don’t get to make choices like that without dire consequences for their personal working lives, their mortgage or rent, their CC, their family life? And how undesirable it might be to us to see them carrying on like that and doing so much damage? It just doesn’t come across as the work of a smart operator in the political arena, let alone one with an eye for what ordinary people go through, what our ‘real world’ works like.
Firstly, I’m a working person, and I know how it looks to me.
Secondly, no I’m not overly interested in a Clayton’s apology. If you follow “sorry” with “out of context”, “devil’s advocate”, or just saying you took it too casually, it’s not an apology, is it? Apology followed by minimisation or excuse is not an apology.
No, he’s not Tony Veitch. However, he still hasn’t indicated that he knows why saying girls shouldn’t drink should never be part of a discussion about rape, nor does the age at which someone first consents to sex have anything to do with the topic of rape. If he doesn’t get why it’s a problem, how will he avoid doing it again?
If Little “consulted” caucus and then ignored serious and significant concerns from caucus members, it wasn’t really “consultation”, was it.
“If Little “consulted” caucus and then ignored serious and significant concerns from caucus members, it wasn’t really “consultation”, was it.”
Taking someone’s concerns into account during your decision making process, but nonetheless deciding that your final decision won’t go the way they wanted it doesn’t automatically amount to ‘ignoring’ them. Not consulting them in the first place is ignoring them. It’s perfectly reasonable to weigh up both sides of the argument and stick with one over the other without the other being ‘ignored’. And this is the concern I have about the response.
As a working person yourself, you’ll be aware that when this happens in our lives, we don’t get to respond to such situations by laying into our bosses on social media and have it go well for us. MPs doing so in their capacity as the representatives of ‘Labour’ is a bloody terrible look.
I stayed away from all this shit and was going to stay ‘staying away’. But…
Any org. running on human interactions and ‘common cause’ has to have bars set. Sometimes the idea will be to default to the highest common denominator (principle) and other times the lowest (ie – most accommodating)
This was clearly a time when the highest denominator should have been defaulted to.
Also…
1. What the fuck are Labour playing at still parachuting people into positions? It’s bullshit.
2. Why are there suggestions that Labour should have been secretive about their disagreements? Whatever happened to the idea of transparency?
Anyway, if a political party can’t even set up what I’d have thought to be a pretty fucking basic component of internal organisational culture, then…ah fuck it Labour died to me a while back and the smell just sometimes gets higher on the wind is all.
If Little had truly consulted everybody, then the strength of Williams’ concerns wouldn’t have been a surprise to him. Or Jackson.
And yet it seems to have taken both of them on the back foot.”
He’s the party leader. If that doesn’t count for anything, why have one? And what does ‘truly consulted everybody’ really mean? As covered previously, being consulted =/= getting everything you want. I would suggest Little was on the back foot because he foolishly expected a spokesperson who owes their appointment to his leadership to abide by their leader’s decision, only to find that they instead hired a PR company to ratfuck him on Waitangi Day.
Yeah, well I don’t know who was consulted. But I could have told them that this was exactly what would have happened. A lot of Labour activists have said pretty much the same thing.
Just think about how many ways that this was going to annoy people inside Labour.
1. Parachuting candidates in without going through the selection process is just outright daft. It was a problem with both the selection of Shearer and with Shearer’s attempts to repeat the same for others. To date I can’t actually think of many times when it has worked successfully on the left. And I can count only a few cases where I think it worked at all in NZ.
2. Willie comes in with a lot of baggage. The Roastbusters debacle was just the most recent. Which is what the union FB yesterday demonstrated.
3. It appears to have been done to get two audiences. Auckland Moari and whoever listened to his show at Radio Live. The latter is probably pretty small and there seem to be quite a lot of Maori who don’t seem to like him.
4. There are some quite large constituencies that a list position could serve.
5. Offhand, I don’t know of any skills that he would have brought to the job of being an MP. Sure being able to speak is an important skill. Being able to speak with a clear and reasoned judgement is an even more important skill.
For me the Roastbusters interview only a few years ago makes me wonder if Willie is up for the job. That in my opinion showed a clear level of misogynist bigotry that would be hard to sell to one of the larger constituencies around – and it was going to be raised. And it was done when he was a grown man, had already been a MP, and presumably as part of his duties in that role would have seen the social and personal problems that the types of things that he and John T were sprouting off about brings.
In my view, he isn’t a candidate that was worth putting up.
Oh and BTW: Andrew Little isn’t the “party leader”. That is Nigel Haworth, the president. Andrew Little is the leader of Labour’s parliamentary caucus. It is a role with some pretty specific responsibilities. He is also a member of the Labour Council. You really do need to learn some of this
And what does ‘truly consulted everybody’ really mean? As covered previously, being consulted =/= getting everything you want.
Very true.
“Truly consulted everybody” means that you end up with an understanding of the depth of feeling people have about an issue.
We’re not talking about a petulant child not getting dessert, we’re talking about a caucus member concerned that a parachuted politician has character flaws that completely invalidate his capabilities of acting as an MP for the Labour party. At the very least, Little should have expected his grand plan to be a massive headache.
I would suggest Little was on the back foot because he foolishly expected a spokesperson who owes their appointment to his leadership to abide by their leader’s decision, only to find that they instead hired a PR company to ratfuck him on Waitangi Day.
If that is the case, he failed to consult thoroughly.
Especially as it’s not even his decision to make.
Williams hiring a pr company, if true, only says that she chose to save the Labour party pr crew a massive conflict of interest: oppose an MP fulfilling their remit, or oppose a caucus leader exceeding his authority.
The complaint Williams made is clear, specific, and reasonable.
The only thing that “ratfucks” Little as leader would be digging in and declaring Williams persona non grata for saying something it was her job to say and reflects the opinions of many members.
Alternatively, he could clarify that it’s all up to the selection process and let shit cool down as the process takes its course. And if Jackson still is minimising and treating the issue as a farce and still gets selected, Little can cross that bridge when he comes to it.
Probably I don’t live in the type of world that you do. I work in one that doesn’t involve me being any kind of a slave.
Sure my bosses can fire me if they want to lose my skills. It has only ever happened a couple of times when month-by-month contracts weren’t renewed. That is the nature of contract work. Something that I have done for less than 2 years of my working life, each time to raise my skill levels.
I have walked away from several jobs when either I thought that the project I was working on was finished, or where my employers wanted me to move on to things that I didn’t want to do. I’m always keenly aware of my responsibilities in a job, and what I was employed to do.
By the sound of it, so is Poto Williams. Both as a representative of her electorate, and in the role she does as a spokesperson for Labour. She appears to have acted well within what she was employed to do and appears to have done it admirably. As McFlock points out further up, she isn’t employed by Andrew Little
I’d suggest that you should look to yourself about why you feel so trapped in your ‘real life’. What you are describing is something that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, and I’d suggest that you join a union to do something about fixing the situation.
BTW: Just as background. The Standard isn’t paid work. It is something that I do in my unpaid time. Just as I have helped various community organisations over the years including the NZLP. I do those because I think that they are worth supporting. In the same way that I support members of my extended family.
I don’t feel trapped, I feel aware of there being rules I have to abide by, one of which remains that in most normal jobs, it’s not ‘feeling trapped’ to know that if you disagree with your superiors, attacking them on social media doesn’t go well for you. Only a couple of times in all those years have I faced that choice. Once, I dealt with it by leaving despite the stress it caused – I put my money where my mouth was. The other time, I sucked it up and got on with it, letting time itself prove me right. Thing is, I think you’re more than smart enough to understand that perfectly well – are you just sledging me here? It seems a rather passive aggressive way to debate with someone.
“Probably I don’t live in the type of world that you do. I work in one that doesn’t involve me being any kind of a slave.
Sure my bosses can fire me if they want to lose my skills. It has only ever happened a couple of times when month-by-month contracts weren’t renewed. That is the nature of contract work. Something that I have done for less than 2 years of my working life, each time to raise my skill levels.”
Ah, the slave argument again. I’m sorry man, but this sounds to me like something that libertarians would say to people campaigning for a living wage. If you think that most ordinary people who live in a real world where undermining your superiors on social media ends with getting fired is being a ‘slave’, I think you need to reconnect with working people. Most of us consider it quite logical that you’d get fired for doing that. It’s not a question of arguing that it’s unfair we don’t get to do it; it’s a question of arguing that it’s unfair that MPs think that’s an acceptable thing to do when purporting to represent us.
I might be ignorant of how the Labour party works, but I get no joy from insulting people for not being an expert at the things I’ve chosen to be an expert at. I’m not a drone, but I believe that if you can’t follow your leader when the going gets tough then you’ll lose every time – I found this just playing football as a kid. Seems to me it’s true anywhere else. I might not be right about how authority works in the Labour party, but that was never my point. It’s how it looks to those of us outside of it who have that impression that ‘leader’ means that you’re in charge.
Ah the ritual whining…. I was wondering when we would get to that typical trollish run-away. After decades around the nets it becomes so so predicable.
I have no particular interest in explaining the basics of how every political party in parliament in this country operates. With the exception of the micro parties they all have very similar structures.
I am also not that much into blindly following leaders either. In fact I have strong track record over decades of telling them when I think that they are treading on dangerous ground. That applies just as much in business as it does in politics or the military. I don’t expect them to take my advice. I do expect them to listen and take note.
My criteria of someone that is a competent leader is that they can do exactly that. Because there are few people who are particularly competent across wide ranges of expertise.
On the nets I am wont to dispurse advice and education about things that I know. When a gentle hint doesn’t get through… well when I meet someone acting like dumb ox trying to batter down a gate and closing their ears whilst doing it, I find that lacing these with some sarcastic reflections of how they appear to me usually makes the lesson penetrate their obsessional stupidity.
This helps me in any subsequent interaction. Because I then don’t have to explain that is what I am likely to do again. The lesson is usually as memorable as your whining indicates it was today.
That’s cool, I’m not asking you to educate me on the internal workings of all the parliamentary parties. I just believe that MPs claiming to represent working people should be a little more in tune with them and not go around doing things that to us would be career ending.
“when I meet someone acting like dumb ox trying to batter down a gate and closing their ears whilst doing it, I find that lacing these with some sarcastic reflections of how they appear to me usually makes the lesson penetrate their obsessional stupidity.”
I don’t think there’s anything dumb about expecting Labour MPs to think a little about how it looks when you hire a PR firm to attack the party leader.
“This helps me in any subsequent interaction. Because I then don’t have to explain that is what I am likely to do again. The lesson is usually as memorable as your whining indicates it was today.”
Whining? I’ve got to be honest, that paragraph and the previous one sounds a bit pompous man. You’re saying that you taught me a lesson? I guess I learned that you can know an awful lot about the Labour party while not really getting what their voters expect from the people who presume to represent them, but I dunno if that’s something to be stoked about. It just seems a bit nihilistic.
I understand your argument and agree with it, my biggest concern is the public spat created from the issue, one made public deliberately through a PR company, a show of unity is paramount at this stage of the election year. If members have concerns about any issue, they should be dealing with it behind closed doors, there is no excuse for unsolicited disagreements find there way into the public domain. Let history show time and time again, that if you want to air your dirty laundry in the public domain as a political party hoping to be elected in the near future, your chances are going to be severely curbed, many a good political party has failed to reach the finish line because of the lack of discipline and unity, not because they didn’t have the right policies or candidates.
FFS The point is that you don’t understand the rules that Poto has to abide by. Clearly she does. One of the most specific things that everyone should do is to understand exactly under what conditions they work in.
And if you want to comment on someone else’s working situation like you are waffling on about, then you should get off your arse and learn about it BEFORE acting like a ignorant dork.
I dunno man, in real life if working stiffs like the rest of us disagree with our boss…
Andrew Little isn’t Poto Williams boss. He is a colleague acting in a different role – that of caucus leader. He doesn’t pay her, he doesn’t hold her employment contract, and he has very limited authority over her. Sure there is a political party involved who nominated her for the position. But she isn’t employed by them either.
She is employed by parliamentary services acting on behalf of the people who elected her. Directly in her case from her electorate. In the case of a list MP that would be the voters who voted for the party.
Now she can be removed from the position of being spokesperson by Andrew Little. She can be dropped from the party by the Labour party council. Those are actions that either of them could do. I am pretty sure that Poto would have calculated that
However neither are who she is employed by and who she is responsible to. She is a representative of the electorate who voted her in.
So why are you trying to say that Andrew Little is her boss?
You’re relying on technicalities to avoid addressing my point. And you need to use insults to make your point? I didn’t need to insult you, or to insult McFlock, even though I find your reasoning way off the mark.
Public perception matters big league. To us out there who are not versed in the minutae of party rules, the party leader is seen as being the boss. It might not be technically true, but I simply cannot believe that someone as knowledgeable as yourself would be unaware that this is how the public perceive the role to work, and that when MPs buck the party leader, that’s how it tends to be read.
We’re looking to Andrew Little as a potential prime minister. If he can’t just once in a while make a call and have it followed by his team, what kind of PM is he going to make? A bad one in most people’s book. We’re not asking him to be some kind of tinpot dictator, or for that to be the way he handles day-to-day decisionmaking. But if his team won’t abide when he makes a call which he has consulted them on, negotiated with them, and delivered a judgment that while he understands their concerns, this time he’s not for turning. That’s actually a sign of leadership to most of us. And as for Williams, yeah you know what? Most ordinary people are happy when consulted by our managers (can I say managers instead of bosses to avoid being insulted?), even if they don’t go with what we wanted. And be they managers, or be they bosses, or be they whatever a ‘caucus leader’ would be in a normal job, there’s just nowhere out there in voter land where you’re gonna find them being cool with you slagging off their decisions on social media.
Now, I feel like this is something I spoke with McFlock about but I understand these are two conversations, but to reiterate what I discussed with him, I don’t doubt that what you say is correct in the strictest terms of what goes in the Labour party, but surely you can see how we’d like to see Labour MPs having a bit of regard for what the rest of us go through in our daily lives and what would be appropriate for us? Let’s say Little is just a colleague for Williams. Most contracts these days have a clause about bringing your employer into disrepute, and I’m pretty sure that slagging off a coworker about things they’ve done in the workplace on social media would get you in trouble even if they weren’t your manager. That’s real life to us.
We’re looking to Andrew Little as a potential prime minister. If he can’t just once in a while make a call and have it followed by his team, what kind of PM is he going to make?
Appropriate Decision-making:
For the implementation of ecological wisdom and social responsibility, decisions will be made directly at the appropriate level by those affected.
and
Non-Violence:
Non-violent conflict resolution is the process by which ecological wisdom, social responsibility and appropriate decision making will be implemented. This principle applies at all levels.
So I’m sorry – If Little is not going to split the Government within his first week of Premiership, then he will have to learn a bit more about negotiation, and collaboration, and give a bit more respect to the opinions of his colleagues.
I have explained up above about what I use insults. It helps make the point and reduces the amount of effort I have to expend in future interactions.
Can I also point out that you don’t make the rules about behaviour on this site. That is generally considered to be one of my roles. I wrote the manual on it.
Technicalities are the lifeblood of any argument for anyone who is actually interested in what they are waffling about. However I will accept that you don’t seem to want to know them. I envisage that in your political life you may be as unsuccessful as Donald Trump is at his getting his immigrant ban working. He also seemed to have skipped a few technicalities and got reamed by the courts for doing so.
Most contracts these days have a clause about bringing your employer into disrepute, and I’m pretty sure that slagging off a coworker about things they’ve done in the workplace on social media would get you in trouble even if they weren’t your manager. That’s real life to us.
Indeed. However as was pointed out many times repetitively over and over again. Andrew Little was not her employer, does not hold a contract with Poto Williams, and if there was such a clause ina code of conduct or the like then it would stand directly in the way of Poto Williams obligations to her real employers – the people who voted for her. That is a completely fatuous argument.
This is the case for EVERY MP in parliament. So your weak pleas to ignorance tend to indicate that you really should learn something about basic politics before waving your two inch troll dick around pretending that it is at least 10 inches.
We’re looking to Andrew Little as a potential prime minister. If he can’t just once in a while make a call and have it followed by his team…
I believe that you are managing to miss a vital point here. There are processes that any manager has to follow. If someone goes off and tries to coop or bypass me in my role without my permission and outside the bounds of the process, then they will have to show an immediate and justifiable cause or they will get a severe bollocking.
It sounds to me like you have a simple minded approach to working with and for other people. Which leads us back to McFlocks point about you acting like a simple wage slave. Or an adolescent in a sports team. Not very mature either way.
Well, it seems to me that you’re aggressively defending the notion that MPs shouldn’t have to be sensitive to how their activities look to voters. Good luck to them (and to you in defending them, I might add; if the Labour caucus is going to start acting like this again, then anyone who takes that job on is going to have a very busy 2017).
It’s interesting that you are so offended by me being ‘immature’ in demanding this, but you are not offended by politicians being demonstrably immature with their ill-disciplined, poorly timed, and counter productive social media behaviour. It’s like some of these folks have PhDs in losing.
Also, when I wrote what I thought was a reasonable observation about our different approaches to the topic:
“And you need to use insults to make your point? I didn’t need to insult you, or to insult McFlock, even though I find your reasoning way off the mark.”
You wrote back:
“Can I also point out that you don’t make the rules about behaviour on this site. That is generally considered to be one of my roles. I wrote the manual on it.”
For someone who accuses other people of being immature, I dunno where to start on that one. Tried a couple times but, just, no.
I think that the very fact we’re having these discussions demonstrates that ‘how it looks to voters’ is not exactly clear-cut.
Maybe Little should have made the same consideration, alongside asking “do I have the constitutional authority to make and announce this deal?” and “should I listen just a little bit harder to what people are saying to me as I consult caucus about this proposal?”
Dude, Lynn knows he’s being annoying and he’s not going to change. This is not an argument you are going to win. Nor would it be particularly helpful even if you did, Lynn doesn’t work for the Labour Party and doesn’t have any particular influence over them as far as I’m aware.
Nope. I was briefly a branch chair for Sandringham back in the early 90s.
Being annoying, memorable, and being accurate about facts and downstream consequences far more often than not is my lever. It also takes a lot less time than spending loads of times in meetings or extended discussions.
And I get to hear the best of what others are capable of when they rise to the occasion. CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening!!
Nope. I was briefly a branch chair for Sandringham back in the early 90s.
Being annoying, memorable, and being accurate about facts and downstream consequences far more often than not is my lever. It also takes a lot less time than spending loads of times in meetings or extended discussions.
And I get to hear the best of what others are capable of when they rise to the occasion. CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening or thinking!!
Nope. What I am mostly pointing is that almost everything you are saying is incorrect. It is based largely on how you think that the world should operate with the type of leadership style that really should have beckme obsolete in the trenches a 100 years ago.
What I am referrong to is how the rules actually operate or who management, political or otherwise, actually works in modern times. This particular case is pretty interesting because Poto Williams did exactly what the party and the caucus requires her to do in her roles for them.
I don’t mind needling to ensure that I am getting through. In fact I find it to be kind of amusing seeing if certain types of commenters can in fact get beyond their inflexible thinking habits of a lifetime.
Take it as a compliment. I usually don’t bother because of my lack of time. Speaking of which. I had better head off to work.
Thanks Antoine, I’m definitely not conflating LP with the Labour Party – but it’s a debate where I’ve questioned their actions, and he has defended them, as is his right and mine.
LP, I won’t say any more than the items below – it’s your site etc.
“CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening or thinking!!”
For a guy who claims to think so little of the points I made, it’s interesting how little you engaged with them in this debate, except for where you could selectively use details of inner party processes to argue that you don’t have to. This despite the fact that I was talking about how it looks to the public rather than how it works in private. You’ve studiously avoided engaging with the issue of how things look to the public and focused pretty much exclusively on what’s ok within the party – as if much of the public knows or cares when the news just covers an MP defying the leader in a party which is known for that but seeking to say it’s changed.
So yeah, disappointing on that score. I’ve overlooked the insulting tone which I felt was designed to troll me and not taken the bait by returning serve – but I won’t attempt to rewrite your site rules! I guess the ‘lesson’ I’ll be taking away isn’t the one you intended to impart. I’ll remember contrasts really; the pompous tone of the comments, the condescension immense not just in and of itself, but in equally immense contrast with the studious avoidance of discussing what I argued was the matter at hand – how bad this looks to much of the public. I can only hope that the Labour party themselves don’t make the same mistake, or we’re destined for 3 more years of National.
Thanks for providing the platform, in any case. I can see I reached a couple people who feel the same as me.
I guess the ‘lesson’ I’ll be taking away isn’t the one you intended to impart. I’ll remember contrasts really; the pompous tone of the comments, the condescension immense not just in and of itself, but in equally immense contrast with the studious avoidance of discussing …
That conceitedness and abusiveness are lprent’s trademark behaviour. He patronisingly thinks he’s teaching people a lesson by abusing them, but as you say, the lesson people learn is not the one he thinks he’s imparting. The lesson I take from it is that it’s not worth trying to discuss things with him because he’s too arrogant to consider other points of view, and his hyper-aggression is a form of trolling to shut down discussion.
It’s possible to avoid him, but still, it must be harmful to the culture of the Standard to have a sysop with anger management issues and an inflated sense of the superiority of his own opinions. Is this kind of macho bullying style a factor in the well-known gender imbalance of the site?
Did I care? You appear to miss the point. As far as I am concerned this is an alternate way of moderating.
What I am concerned with is that I don’t have my attention attracted by people acting like fools. The best way of making sure that happens is for the foolish to not want to attract my attention. If I have time, I prefer to treat a fool like a fool. It is more effective than the other techniques I could use.
For the record, Williams would be bound by the Labour Caucus Rules – no idea what those comprise of, but if they apply it would be an avenue of discipline.
Yes. That is probably why she made a point of pointing out that what she did actually falls under her portfolio and therefore under her responsibilities to caucus. This was hardly reputable, and curiously, seems to have been largely unexamined by the commenters.
Think through what a probable caucus rule set would say about that.
I read the article, and disagree with you, and he was still talking of a “winnable list placing” which is what he spoke of before. But remember, Willie Jackson still has a process to go through first.
President Trump has inherited a vast domestic intelligence agency with extraordinary secret powers. A cache of documents offers a rare window into the FBI’s quiet expansion since 9/11.” https://theintercept.com/series/the-fbis-secret-rules/
So, is he implying that high-income people will not get cuts?
And if so, what is a plausible mechanism for this to happen? (I.e. lower- and middle-income earners have their tax burden eased, and higher-income earners do not.)
Can’t change rates down or brackets up, since everyone gets less tax from those.
Or is he just not telling the whole story, and of course everyone will get cuts?
Just heard the outgoing deputy PM address the nation for the start of the year.
Paula spent 10 minutes gossiping about Labour. You know the type, a gossip, stirrer, bully. What a disgusting display it was, mutton as.
Obviously she is not too bright, a better use of time would be to talk up her own party.
But she didn’t, the outgoing deputy PM seems to have no ideas, no solutions, nothing nada.
And I don’t want to sound shallow, but by crikey she’s a big lass.
Is that all she does, gossip when given time to speak to the NZ public in Parliament? What a waste of tax payer money she is.
It reminds me of the story of a guy who was jailed for stealing to support himself, years after he had served his time, the stigma still hung around, even though he had paid his debt to society in full, and learnt the lesson attached to it.
[lprent: I don’t like losing moderators. Having a fool attacking my moderators tends to piss me off.
But you aren’t banned because you didn’t quite quite drop over the bounds. Since the last comments I looked at last night from you were praising TDB. I thought of an appropriate warning that would serve a dual purpose.
All your comments are now subject to automatic moderation and release when a moderator feels like it. That is because you appear to have been ignoring gentle warnings from moderators about thinking before pressing submit.
And just think about how privileged you now are. You are now the only person on this site who can operate as if you are on TDB. Doesn’t that make you feel excited 😈 ]
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Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
Monday left me brokenTuesday, I was through with hopingWednesday, my empty arms were openThursday, waiting for love, waiting for loveThe end of another week that left many of us asking WTF? What on earth has NZ gotten itself into and how on earth could people have voluntarily signed up for ...
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
The allure of sport transcends age, culture, and geographical boundaries. It captivates hearts, ignites passions, and provides unparalleled entertainment. Behind the spectacle, however, lies a fascinating world of financial investment and expenditure. Among the vast array of competitive pursuits, one question looms large: which sport carries the hefty title of ...
Introduction Pickleball, a rapidly growing paddle sport, has captured the hearts and imaginations of millions around the world. Its blend of tennis, badminton, and table tennis elements has made it a favorite among players of all ages and skill levels. As the sport’s popularity continues to surge, the question on ...
Abstract: Soccer, the global phenomenon captivating millions worldwide, has a rich history that spans centuries. Its origins trace back to ancient civilizations, but the modern version we know and love emerged through a complex interplay of cultural influences and innovations. This article delves into the fascinating journey of soccer’s evolution, ...
Tinting car windows offers numerous benefits, including enhanced privacy, reduced glare, UV protection, and a more stylish look for your vehicle. However, the cost of window tinting can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article provides a comprehensive guide to help you understand how much you can expect to ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Fechner, Research Fellow, Social Marketing, Griffith University mavo/Shutterstock Imagine having dinner at a restaurant. The menu offers plant-based meat alternatives made mostly from vegetables, mushrooms, legumes and wheat that mimic meat in taste, texture and smell. Despite being given that ...
“Three Strikes is a dead-end policy proposed by a dead-end government. The Three Strikes law ignores the causes of crime, instead just brutalising people already crushed by the cost of living.” ...
By Don Wiseman, RNZ Pacific senior journalist An Australian-born judge in Kiribati could well face deportation later this week after a tribunal ruling that he should be removed from his post. The tribunal’s report has just been tabled in the Kiribati Parliament and is due to be debated by MPs ...
With its clear mandate for police use, political nuances, and nuanced public trust, Denmark's insights provide valuable considerations for Australia and New Zealand. ...
Books editor Claire Mabey reviews poet Louise Wallace’s debut novel. A famous poet once said to me that he’s always suspicious when a poet publishes a novel. I never really understood why but maybe it’s something to do with cheating on your first form. Louise Wallace is a poet. She’s ...
For a few months at the turn of the millennium, TrueBliss burned bright as the biggest pop stars in the country. Alex Casey chats to two superfans who still hold the flame. During a humble backyard wedding in Nelson, 1999, one of the cordially invited guests had to excuse themselves ...
How will the recent wave of job cuts impact ethnic diversity in the media? In November last year, I was working a very busy day in the newsroom of a large online news site, interviewing whānau about their concerns over the imminent closure of one of the few puna reo ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ruth Knight, Researcher, Queensland University of Technology Have you ever felt sick at work? Perhaps you had food poisoning or the flu. Your belly hurt, or you felt tired, making it hard to concentrate and be productive. How likely would you be ...
Despite heavy criticism and an ongoing select committee process, the Police Minister says the Government will forge ahead with a ban on gang patches. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sam Whiting, Lecturer – Creative Industries, University of South Australia Shutterstock Everyone has a favourite band, or a favourite composer, or a favourite song. There is some music which speaks to you, deeply; and other music which might be the current ...
A new survey says ‘outlook not great’ for those charged with building infrastructure, while RMA changes delight farmers and depress environmentalists, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. First RMA changes announced ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olli Hellmann, Associate Professor of Political Science, University of Waikato Getty Images When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also ...
A leaked document shows the Canterbury/Waitaha arm of health agency Te Whatu Ora is scurrying to save $13.3 million by July. The “financial sustainability target”, which was “allocated” to Waitaha, is consistent with what’s happening in other districts, says Sarah Dalton, executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists. ...
A look at the state of the previous government’s affordable housing scheme, and what could come next.Remind me: What’s KiwiBuild again?First announced in 2012, KiwiBuild was a flagship policy of the Labour Party heading into both its 2014 and 2017 election campaigns. With Jacinda Ardern as prime minister, ...
Labour in opposition will be shocked to learn which party had six years in power but squandered any chance to make real change. Grant Robertson’s valedictory speech was a predictably entertaining trip down memory lane. The acid-tongued incoming Otago University chancellor administered a sick burn to the coalition government. He ...
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The following interview with former Green Party MP Sue Kedgley came about because she features in the new memoir Hine Toa by activist Ngāhuia te Awekōtuku; the two knew each other at the University of Auckland in the early 70s, when they were both took on leadership roles in the ...
Taiwan’s semiconductor industry is seen some as its ‘silicon shield’ against invasion – but how will overseas expansion affect that protection? The post The state of Taiwan’s silicon shield appeared first on Newsroom. ...
There’s relief for building owners bending under the weight of earthquake strengthening rules – and costs – that came into force seven years ago. Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk has announced a scheduled 2027 review of the earthquake-prone building regulations will now start this year. Owners will also get ...
Opinion: It has been announced that nine percent of roles at Oranga Tamariki will be disestablished, presumably to help fund the tax cuts promised by the coalition Government. I am reminded of the graphics used to illustrate pandemic events, where five thousand people are standing in a field and then ...
After more than two sleepless days, running through savage terrain, Greig Hamilton didn’t know if he was going to finish one of the most gruelling psychological assaults in sport. He was metres away from the finish line, a yellow gate made famous in a Netflix documentary; a race he’d dreamed ...
COMMENTARY:By Murray Horton New Zealand needs to get tough with Israel. It’s not as if we haven’t done so before. When NZ authorities busted a Mossad operation in Auckland 20 years ago, the government didn’t say: “Oh well, Israel has the right to defend itself.” No, it arrested, prosecuted, ...
NEWSMAKERS:By Vijay Narayan, news director of FijiVillage Blessed to be part of the University of Fiji (UniFiji) faculty to continue to teach and mentor those who want to join our noble profession, and to stand for truth and justice for the people of the country. I was privileged to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Three weeks from now, some of us will be presented with a mountain of budget papers, and just about all of us will get to hear about them on radio, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dan Lowry, Ice Sheet & Climate Modeller, GNS Science Hugh Chittock/Antarctica New Zealand, CC BY-SA As the climate warms and Antarctica’s glaciers and ice sheets melt, the resulting rise in sea level has the potential to displace hundreds of millions of ...
The government's plan to reintroduce a three strikes regime is being strongly opposed by lawyers, who argue there is no evidence it reduces crime or helps people rehabilitate. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dan Jerker B. Svantesson, Professor specialising in Internet law, Bond University Do Australian courts have the right to decide what foreign citizens, located overseas, view online on a foreign-owned platform? Anyone inclined to answer “yes” to this question should perhaps also ask ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Giovanni E Ferreira, NHMRC Emerging Leader Research Fellow, Institute of Musculoskeletal Health, University of Sydney Last week in a post on X, owner of the platform Elon Musk recommended people look into disc replacement if they’re experiencing severe neck or back pain. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Hayward, Emeritus Professor of Public Policy, RMIT University anek.soowannaphoom/Shutterstock NSW Treasurer Daniel Mookhey caught the headlines yesterday, courtesy of a blistering speech condemning the latest GST carve-up. New South Wales, he claimed, would be A$11.9 billion worse off over the ...
While police are "broadly in favour", the government's proposed anti-gang laws are facing pushback from lawyers, rights groups and former gang members. ...
While police are "broadly in favour", the government's proposed anti-gang laws are facing pushback from lawyers, rights groups and former gang members. ...
By Miriam Zarriga in Port Moresby Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has arrived at Kokoda Station, Northern province, at the start of his state visit to Papua New Guinea. Both Albanese and Prime Minister James Marape will meet with the locals and the Northern Provincial government before they begin their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chris Wallace, Professor, School of Politics Economics & Society, Faculty of Business Government & Law, University of Canberra Shutterstock An important principle was invoked by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese last week in defence of the government’s Future Made in Australia industry ...
Poverty entrenched – Sallies
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89172618/rampant-house-prices-and-entrenched-child-poverty-salvation-army-state-of-the-nation
Herald version here:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11796071
Maybe they are living in cars, garages, or on the street?
Maybe that’s why burglaries are rising. Perhaps I should ask Pula.
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/88971054/a-burglary-reported-every-7-minutes-as-recorded-crime-rate-jumps
According to our journalists crime is rising because of criminals having a change of circumstances or to feed a drug/alcohol habit. Fairly lacklustre analysis I have to say and supports what theyve told their middle class readers for decades.
Or wander from bin to bin, looking in, then resting on the pavement with a cap in hand. All too common sight.
This tells us nothing about the situation for those on the lowest incomes, especially the bottom 10-20%. An average increase could all be accounted for rises in incomes of the highest paid.
My bold indicates the most worrying data.
Yes poverty is a huge problem in NZ for many people.
Personally I’ve not much time for the Sallies, they are well known in Motueka for throwing away thousands of good quality items in their skip.
We have a couple of charity shops here, Red Cross has a free rack outside their store, free clothes and other bits and pieces, rather than dumping it in a skip.
Meanwhile the Motueka Salvation Army store offers free coat hangers and magazines, that’s it, the clothes that they don’t want, shoes, toys etc they would rather throw them in the skip than offer items free to the poor. This has been happening for years, and is disgusting. Items that they place in their store but don’t sell, they throw into their skip.
Many locals boycott the Sallies here for the reasons above.
To any whom run charity stores, if you really want to do something to help people in poverty who are often too embarrassed to ask for help, put up a ‘free’ rack of clothes outside, not clothes hangers and magazines, that won’t keep people warm.
There has been a huge shift in NZ involving what were formerly ‘Op Shops’ becoming ‘alternative retailers’. I’ve a friend did her dissertation on the phenomenon – not good.
And yes, it means that stuff gets skipped (much of it fine) and it also means that prices rise.
As a book dealer my advice is…do not bother donating old books to the op shops, unless you regularly see collectible old books on their shelves, as for the most part you might as well dump them in the skip yourself.
Certain large op shop organisations are throwing away absolute treasures, that do not even make it to the shelves, as they have strange ideas about things being ‘old’. Danielle Steele books…excellent…150 year old ‘Origin of the Species’…rubbish.
We have had repeated ‘discussions’ with head office, and have offered to buy certain old books that are being thrown straight into the bin, but no, they would rather throw money away. In fact, they INSIST on throwing these books away. They do not even want us to tell them which books are valuable!!
And then, even odder, complain about the cost of disposing of ‘rubbish’.
Its inexplicable and a tragedy when you think of the heirlooms being handed over in good faith. Let alone the money lost.
Why they do not hire some old ‘dealers’, and there must be enough of them out there, to sort this situation out is inexplicable.
As an organisation they do good work in highlighting poverty…but they have some very odd ideas, and not just about old books.
Shocking! (the dumping of books).
I think Charities dump art too a lot of the time.
Saying that publishers pulp something like 30% of the books they publish.
Then they wonder why Amazon is so popular.
Sounds like an opportunity for someone to provide a service to take away people’s old books and re sell them to people who will appreciate them!
The clothing bins are also a scam apparently – most of the proceeds go to private enterprise with a small amount going to charity I have heard.
Lots of people shop at the dump these days.
Amazing what people throw out, lots of bargains to be had for the budget conscious shopper.
Too true.
Over several years I bought knives at a re-use store at 50 cents each, – amongst them quality blades (Santoku, Sheffield, Victorinox, Atlantic Chef, Solingen) in great condition and collectively worth hundreds of dollars.
Yep, I just built a sunroom over the top of our deck, at some point we’re going to cover the decking with cementBoard and tile but in the meantime, I just wanted to paint the decking to tidy it up a bit.
Went down to the dump, 4 litre tin of timbacryl in dark grey $10, normally $100 at Bunnings.
Property empty most of the time is owned by ‘charity’ exempt from tax organizations. As church going decline the properties wont be sold as they are part of large portfolios that keep other properties rented out for more. Given how low dense Nz is, foot traffic being so important to business, is kept higher retail rents but lower foot traffic. And then dont get me started about new builds, putting up one floor homes on corner sites, its just crazy econmics, higher fott traffic would suggest highe buildings with shops. But retail like property is stuffed in NZ, lots of rent seeking behavior holding NZ back.
It will require legislation, it will require regulation
It will require leadership
“Plastic to outweigh fish in oceans by 2050, study warns”
January 19, 2016 by David Williams:
Hands up, all those who think that individual action could have saved this poor creature’s life?
“Dead whale’s stomach clogged with plastic”
Would it be too much to ask for a 50 cents recycling fee for each plastic container and each piece of plastic packaging, to properly kick start a recycling industry with hundreds of jobs?
I am old enough to remember when Muldoon under lobbying from the packaging industry got rid of the refunds for used glass bottles. After which the the country (and the world) was flooded with a huge increase in plastic packaging.
Why can’t we bring back this useful idea?
I know that in the modern neo-liberal regime that we are not allowed to put any constraints on the free market.
But just once, couldn’t we make an exception?
Saw that article. Very sad. Good idea, I’d like to bring back glass milk bottles if we could.
Also force biodegradable plastic or packaging by making those without it, pay for the recycling.
Continuing a topic from Daily review last night.
I questioned some LP members on what the LP is doing for west and south Aucklanders and urban Māori. Some said Willie Jackson understood west and South Aucklanders and urban Māori.
Today onne blogger and social media commentator has questioned whether Jackson really does understand, or will do anything much for urban Maori.
Ellipster tweeted:
ie she’s saying Māori are a diverse group, and we should beware of assuming they are all the same. And has since tweeted she is thinking of putting her thoughts on this into a post.
Carrie is also a strong Maori Party supporter, it should be noted.
Yes. But it’s also useful to read diverse Māori views on the Jackson issue; which partly about political party positioning.
Trump exaggerates, yeah lies, yet gets votes. So you have to ask yourself why. Some form of cut through obviously. Now contrast how a labour MP deals with Jackson on morning tv1. Boring, uncontroversial, weak defensive. Key called the whole opposition a bunch of rapist supporters while welcoming rapist thrownout of Oz.
Now the fact that Labour still play like wet squid while nasty nats slag them is sure principled, its also stupid, since a politician should know how both not to sledge while suggesting it and also enlightening us about their position. Labour refuses to ditch neo-lib edicts, unlike Trump who expresses himself woefully yet still kicks neolibs.
This is why the left fails, and yes needs less saints like Jackson in its ranks. We want you to fight our corner, less so the oh your high principles that keep us from gaining a gist of your thinking, heart, soul, etc.
When the banker Key trades and becime successful, the idea the Labour would not hold him accoutable for shitty rivers, poor roads, faulting drugs, by actually question his credentials as a master of the economy, says something deep about the Labour out of touchness.
Clinton smiliarly married to the President who famous slogan, its the economy stupid, could not consider the impact that fuelled Sanders supporters.
The left have for too long conceeded, become weakened, by their inane strategy of not attacking the econmics of stupid that is Thacherism. Or as we know here in NZ rogernomics.
Labour have to soul search, Clark won when neolibs were untested, now hey are found unwanted and flawed, so where is Labour. You can be principled, anti neolib, and strong on the economy. We are all free traders, we all want fewer ticket clippers, so wht does Labour accept that being anti tppa means being anti free trade!
Some of my Whanau are urban Maori and they have benefited the most from working for families.
Politics are completely outside their lives. I doubt they have even heard of Willy Jackson or be on the Maori roll and he will not influence them in any way to vote.
They are on one income, 2 kids, work a 6 day week and get only $650 (in Auckland that is nothing) but working for families top them up approx $200.
Working for families has been the biggest policy to help them.
Personally think Labour or Mana will do the most for them with policies that target them. Or someone like Sue Bradford that understands they need help, just to navigate to get the help. WINZ are a waste of time for them and their attitude just puts them off going to them.
State housing would also help them. But they work in an expensive area of Auckland. I don’t think there are any state houses there not sold off. That is also one of the disasters for the poor that State houses used to be everywhere and so there was a cross section of the community in each area. Not rich ghettos like we are getting.
On minimum wages a mortgage of $300,000 is max, so essentially the so called affordable houses of $500,000 or $600,000 being built to replace the state houses are out of their reach.
In my parents day, the state actually built houses on mass to sell to families. But with immigration at the levels they are not only are there not enough rentals or houses but how could you afford to build enough for the amount of people needing them and coming in?
The Maori party has let urban Maori down by collaborating with National and making their lives worse by their appalling policies against the poor.
I’m not a fan of Willy Jackson, and think he’s going to put off more voters than he attracts. In particular putting off women and anyone against Charter schools.
Labour already have Nash, with pretty extreme views.
“The Green and Labour Parties’ State of the Nation event showed that New Zealand has an energised, well-organised and ready government-in-waiting.”
True, until Labour reverted to messy factional form this week. Oh well.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Oh do pull your head out of your ass. Sorry for the language, but I’m over it.
So a M.P. spoke up about her portfolio, then the bloke brigade got all upset. Left wing men had a tizzy, and we have to listen to them moan for weeks on end now. Left wing men in this country need there heads in the game, that was not disunity or messy. That was politics, so grow up.
adam
It’s not that an MP spoke up about her portfolio, it’s about making it PUBLIC, politicians are supposed to exercise diplomacy, if this is an example of diplomacy in the political arena , then getting a change of Govt isn’t going to happen any time soon………
I read the Soper bit and translated it into what it really said; to whit, “Bill English is a liar.”
I then translated that into what it really meant; to whit, “We have another lying bastard Prime Minister and it is simply accepted without saying it like it is.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11796352I
–Bit harsh on bill. Give him some credit as It seems he has ‘broken the ice with trump’ Herald reports a US icebreaker is on its way to nz.
repateet
How could you possibly draw that from the Soper item? More likely you are simply expressing your own pre-existing belief.
Bill English is a liar!
That is documented
Then, now,forever
It’s a big club, Wayne
How? Start with,
“English says notes were taken, which assumes someone was listening into the call. At one point, recalling the call as Parliament resumed, he initially said it wasn’t being eavesdropped on because it was a personal call. But then, in the next breath, he agreed someone was listening in, which would make sense if notes were being taken.”
Most likely you are simply expressing your own pre-existing belief.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201832369/andrew-little-we-have-to-broaden-our-reach
This is worth listening to – Andrew Little on Morning Report today – and the need for Labour to “broaden its reach” .
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/02/06/these-smart-tvs-were-apparently-spying-on-their-owners/?utm_term=.daa414147029
Interesting story about what data your smart TV might be collecting for its manufacurers about everything you view
Brian Rudman has a column showing that Trump is not as bad as some previous administrations. Our “friends” in USA have a lot to face up to.
“His now saintly predecessor, Barack Obama, did not just contemplate such tactics. For eight years he employed remote controlled drone gunships to hunt down suspected terrorists, blasting away at homes, villages, wedding and funeral processions and anyone unlucky enough to be in their way, across a huge swathe of the Islamic crescent, from Pakistan to Somalia. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism reported last month of 546 confirmed drone strikes against suspected terrorists in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan under Obama.
It calculated that between 384 and 807 civilians died in these attacks.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11796087
Rudman doesn’t seem to grasp the difference between the fact that committing to military action means committing to the possibility or likelihood of civilian casualties, and the fact that deliberately targeting civilians for murder is a war crime. Obama was doing the first one; Trump’s proposal to kill relatives of terrorists is the second.
Readers who share Rudman’s difficulty with this concept should consider that the British killed a large number of French civilians while getting the Germans out of Caen in 1944, mostly by carpet-bombing the place, while Einsatzgruppe A killed a large number of Lithuanian civilians while getting the Jews out of Lithuania in 1941, mostly by lining them up on the edge of a pre-dug mass grave and shooting them into it. International law treats those two actions differently, for reasons that hopefully are obvious.
The poor Syrian people.
In between the mad fanatics of Isis and the many and varied foreign powers dropping bombs from above, their dictator for life continues to slaughter those who speak against him.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/syria/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/07/up-to-13000-secretly-hanged-in-syrian-jail-says-amnesty
Late and misguided of you, mullett
That article was pulled apart, yesterday
Hello Moz how’s the weather over in Northcote.
Sorry to disillusion you, my friend, but I am not “One Two” and he/she is not me.
And the weather’s always wonderful in Northcote Point, thanks.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89167955/little-changes-tack-saying-davis-and-senior-mps-should-rank-ahead-of-jackson
So Little backs down and now looks weak, not sure who wins (apart from National) out of this
He certainly deserves an F for this effort, all he seems to have done is piss everyone off.
Definitely not one of hs better plays.
This election is brought to you (and will be contested about) by the letter I
1 Immigration
2 Interest rates
3 IYI’S
Just saw this on the daily blog
Labour’s Poto Williams hired a private public relations firm to craft her statement on Willie Jackson joining the party.
Christchurch-based Inform PR sent out a statement from Ms Williams condemning her leader Andrew Little’s decision to welcome Mr Jackson into the Labour fold.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/02/poto-williams-hired-pr-firm-for-willie-jackson-ploy.html
Wow, bit of an understatement here, but that’s not good.
Could be worse. Could have hired Lusk lol
Crikey. This moves from an impassioned critique to something more planned and deliberate. There’s a process to follow in selecting list candidates. Williams should have addressed her concerns to the committee that determines list selection.
I just thought Labour had got past disunity and airing dirty laundry.
If that’s true, it’s a sackable offence.
Huh? They always do. Cabinet level MPs do in every party list I have ever looked at.
You appear to have gotten your head in some kind of theoretical stupidity. Perhaps you should try real life some time.
Real life? I dunno man, in real life if working stiffs like the rest of us disagree with our boss, hiring a PR company to help us undermine them with social media postings instead of dealing with the outcome of their decision invariably gets us fired. I know some will say that a political party is not a regular company, but the point quite clearly stands when you’re talking about someone who is out to represent us cog-in-the-wheel 99%ers on a political level.
It looks really out of touch with what we get to do or how we get to deal with what life hands us. If we get consulted on change, but the boss’ final decision doesn’t deliver 100% of what we wanted, we either deal or leave. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to ask the same of those who purport to represent our interest as ‘Labour’. What’s the point of having a leader if you get to choose when it is or isn’t important to back their decisions – decisions which we now know were arrived at *after* consultation? I’ve been a cleaner. I’ve been a chef. I’ve been a storeman. I’ve worked in a number of roles in commercial research. If at any time I’m asked to do work which goes against what I feel is a principle I hold, I weigh that against what it would mean to leave – my principles vs my rent (or these days, my mortgage); my principles vs how my family will be affected, or how my bills will be paid. I don’t get to have it both ways, and neither do most of us working stiffs. I resent the idea that politicians should get to have it different to the rest of us.
That’s called “wage slavery”, fwiw.
But the thing is that Little is the caucus leader. He doesn’t sign mp pay cheques. He can’t overrule party democratic processes by pre-empting list selection. He was elected leader by the same organisation that organises list selection.
Williams represents Christchurch East. Her role in the caucus follows from her experiences in social services.
Little is not her “boss”. He’s the caucus leader, not a dictator. Consultation does not mean that you have to consent to the outcome. Yes, this causus difficulty, mainly because he failed to lead before this was all publicly announced.
Worst case scenario, Little sends her to the back bench. That’s the worst he can do as leader. The best he can do is to somehow build this incident into a learning experience and a point of strength.
Yes yes, I see what you are saying about how the Labour party works – but my post was about looking beyond that to how it compares to those of us out here in that ‘real world’ cited by LP above. And how it looks to us when people purporting to represent us act like you can spit the dummy if you don’t get 100% of the outcomes you want. We can condescendingly call it ‘wage slavery’, but for us 99%ers, that’s what we live with – a ‘real world’ where principles and consequences can often not balance, and where our choices in those instances are deal or quit. We know she was consulted by her leader, and we know that his final decision was not what she wanted. So she hired a PR company to sabotage his decision. I don’t care what Labour’s rules are, Labour are representing people who don’t get to do that in these circumstances. And when you have politicians who get to do things we don’t, they aren’t going to be in the right mentality to represent us. Again, what’s the point of having a leader if nobody in caucus thinks you get to choose when you abide by their decisions or trust their strategy?
Well, firstly I don’t think it’s fair to portray the issue as not getting 100% of what you want. WJ’s comments were pretty objectionable. Regardless of Little’s decision, he should have known that someone prominent was going to be pissed – and if he were a better leader, he would have recognised the strength of feeling from some in his own caucus.
She allegedly hired a pr company. We don’t know whether this was a regular relationship that a public figure might have to maintain a consistent image, or whether it was specifically for this job. We don’t know whether the job was to harm Labour or Little, or act as advisor on how to moderate the conflict between minimising the damage to the party and to Little, while at the same time expressing the sentiments that she felt obliged to express.
What if Little decided that Labour was no longer for a nuclear free NZ? Or arbitrarily announced that Shane Jones was back as as an MP, or even David Garrett?
Labour are representing employees, who don’t have the same freedom as MPs. MPs can talk about anyone they want in the House without fear of being sued, for example.
But let me put it this way: which would be the biggest flaw in the Labour party: the argument we’re having now, or the argument we don’t have because the Labour spokesperson on domestic violence refuses to speak out when the party leader announces he’s parachuting to the upper reaches of the list someone who recently called rape “mischief”? The first is when the leader screws up but someone else does their job. The second is when they both fail to do their job.
That final point might be relevant if Jackson had refused to acknowledge that he was out of line or had refused to confront how bone-headed it was, but we know that Jackson apologised, and we’ve heard that he also put in extra time with the community. I’ve heard some claim it’s a Clayton’s apology, but ultimately the tone of these comments suggest that they aren’t interested in his apology. Do you assert that he cannot be redeemed? Is that the position you’d like the Labour spokesperson on domestic violence to take? He’s not exactly Tony fucking Veitch.
You still bring it back to this idea: Williams was “expressing the sentiments that she felt obliged to express.” On social media. In the middle of Waitangi weekend media coverage. Again, us 99%ers don’t get to do this kind of thing when we disagree with leaders’ strategy – we are obliged to make other decisions. But our would-be representatives in politics feel obliged to enjoy other luxuries which we don’t get.
“What if Little decided that Labour was no longer for a nuclear free NZ? Or arbitrarily announced that Shane Jones was back as as an MP, or even David Garrett?”
We’re not talking about that though, are we. Also, you say “arbitrarily announced”; we know that he didn’t arbitrarily announce it. He consulted her – presumably in his capacity as *leader*. But his decision wasn’t the one she wanted, so she got her PR firm to craft her a social media campaign to undermine his decision, which the press is now gleefully holding up as evidence that Labour’s recovery is a sham. Bravo.
Hey look, I can understand why you find it justified – I’m not saying you don’t make valid points in the context of politics and what Labour MPs are entitled to do. You probably know far more than me about this stuff. But can you understand how terrible it looks to working people who don’t get to make choices like that without dire consequences for their personal working lives, their mortgage or rent, their CC, their family life? And how undesirable it might be to us to see them carrying on like that and doing so much damage? It just doesn’t come across as the work of a smart operator in the political arena, let alone one with an eye for what ordinary people go through, what our ‘real world’ works like.
Firstly, I’m a working person, and I know how it looks to me.
Secondly, no I’m not overly interested in a Clayton’s apology. If you follow “sorry” with “out of context”, “devil’s advocate”, or just saying you took it too casually, it’s not an apology, is it? Apology followed by minimisation or excuse is not an apology.
No, he’s not Tony Veitch. However, he still hasn’t indicated that he knows why saying girls shouldn’t drink should never be part of a discussion about rape, nor does the age at which someone first consents to sex have anything to do with the topic of rape. If he doesn’t get why it’s a problem, how will he avoid doing it again?
If Little “consulted” caucus and then ignored serious and significant concerns from caucus members, it wasn’t really “consultation”, was it.
“If Little “consulted” caucus and then ignored serious and significant concerns from caucus members, it wasn’t really “consultation”, was it.”
Taking someone’s concerns into account during your decision making process, but nonetheless deciding that your final decision won’t go the way they wanted it doesn’t automatically amount to ‘ignoring’ them. Not consulting them in the first place is ignoring them. It’s perfectly reasonable to weigh up both sides of the argument and stick with one over the other without the other being ‘ignored’. And this is the concern I have about the response.
As a working person yourself, you’ll be aware that when this happens in our lives, we don’t get to respond to such situations by laying into our bosses on social media and have it go well for us. MPs doing so in their capacity as the representatives of ‘Labour’ is a bloody terrible look.
Again, Little isn’t Williams’ boss.
If Little had truly consulted everybody, then the strength of Williams’ concerns wouldn’t have been a surprise to him. Or Jackson.
And yet it seems to have taken both of them on the back foot.
I stayed away from all this shit and was going to stay ‘staying away’. But…
Any org. running on human interactions and ‘common cause’ has to have bars set. Sometimes the idea will be to default to the highest common denominator (principle) and other times the lowest (ie – most accommodating)
This was clearly a time when the highest denominator should have been defaulted to.
Also…
1. What the fuck are Labour playing at still parachuting people into positions? It’s bullshit.
2. Why are there suggestions that Labour should have been secretive about their disagreements? Whatever happened to the idea of transparency?
Anyway, if a political party can’t even set up what I’d have thought to be a pretty fucking basic component of internal organisational culture, then…ah fuck it Labour died to me a while back and the smell just sometimes gets higher on the wind is all.
McFlock:
“Again, Little isn’t Williams’ boss.
If Little had truly consulted everybody, then the strength of Williams’ concerns wouldn’t have been a surprise to him. Or Jackson.
And yet it seems to have taken both of them on the back foot.”
He’s the party leader. If that doesn’t count for anything, why have one? And what does ‘truly consulted everybody’ really mean? As covered previously, being consulted =/= getting everything you want. I would suggest Little was on the back foot because he foolishly expected a spokesperson who owes their appointment to his leadership to abide by their leader’s decision, only to find that they instead hired a PR company to ratfuck him on Waitangi Day.
Yeah, well I don’t know who was consulted. But I could have told them that this was exactly what would have happened. A lot of Labour activists have said pretty much the same thing.
Just think about how many ways that this was going to annoy people inside Labour.
1. Parachuting candidates in without going through the selection process is just outright daft. It was a problem with both the selection of Shearer and with Shearer’s attempts to repeat the same for others. To date I can’t actually think of many times when it has worked successfully on the left. And I can count only a few cases where I think it worked at all in NZ.
2. Willie comes in with a lot of baggage. The Roastbusters debacle was just the most recent. Which is what the union FB yesterday demonstrated.
3. It appears to have been done to get two audiences. Auckland Moari and whoever listened to his show at Radio Live. The latter is probably pretty small and there seem to be quite a lot of Maori who don’t seem to like him.
4. There are some quite large constituencies that a list position could serve.
5. Offhand, I don’t know of any skills that he would have brought to the job of being an MP. Sure being able to speak is an important skill. Being able to speak with a clear and reasoned judgement is an even more important skill.
For me the Roastbusters interview only a few years ago makes me wonder if Willie is up for the job. That in my opinion showed a clear level of misogynist bigotry that would be hard to sell to one of the larger constituencies around – and it was going to be raised. And it was done when he was a grown man, had already been a MP, and presumably as part of his duties in that role would have seen the social and personal problems that the types of things that he and John T were sprouting off about brings.
In my view, he isn’t a candidate that was worth putting up.
Oh and BTW: Andrew Little isn’t the “party leader”. That is Nigel Haworth, the president. Andrew Little is the leader of Labour’s parliamentary caucus. It is a role with some pretty specific responsibilities. He is also a member of the Labour Council. You really do need to learn some of this
Very true.
“Truly consulted everybody” means that you end up with an understanding of the depth of feeling people have about an issue.
We’re not talking about a petulant child not getting dessert, we’re talking about a caucus member concerned that a parachuted politician has character flaws that completely invalidate his capabilities of acting as an MP for the Labour party. At the very least, Little should have expected his grand plan to be a massive headache.
If that is the case, he failed to consult thoroughly.
Especially as it’s not even his decision to make.
Williams hiring a pr company, if true, only says that she chose to save the Labour party pr crew a massive conflict of interest: oppose an MP fulfilling their remit, or oppose a caucus leader exceeding his authority.
The complaint Williams made is clear, specific, and reasonable.
The only thing that “ratfucks” Little as leader would be digging in and declaring Williams persona non grata for saying something it was her job to say and reflects the opinions of many members.
Alternatively, he could clarify that it’s all up to the selection process and let shit cool down as the process takes its course. And if Jackson still is minimising and treating the issue as a farce and still gets selected, Little can cross that bridge when he comes to it.
Probably I don’t live in the type of world that you do. I work in one that doesn’t involve me being any kind of a slave.
Sure my bosses can fire me if they want to lose my skills. It has only ever happened a couple of times when month-by-month contracts weren’t renewed. That is the nature of contract work. Something that I have done for less than 2 years of my working life, each time to raise my skill levels.
I have walked away from several jobs when either I thought that the project I was working on was finished, or where my employers wanted me to move on to things that I didn’t want to do. I’m always keenly aware of my responsibilities in a job, and what I was employed to do.
By the sound of it, so is Poto Williams. Both as a representative of her electorate, and in the role she does as a spokesperson for Labour. She appears to have acted well within what she was employed to do and appears to have done it admirably. As McFlock points out further up, she isn’t employed by Andrew Little
I’d suggest that you should look to yourself about why you feel so trapped in your ‘real life’. What you are describing is something that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, and I’d suggest that you join a union to do something about fixing the situation.
BTW: Just as background. The Standard isn’t paid work. It is something that I do in my unpaid time. Just as I have helped various community organisations over the years including the NZLP. I do those because I think that they are worth supporting. In the same way that I support members of my extended family.
I don’t feel trapped, I feel aware of there being rules I have to abide by, one of which remains that in most normal jobs, it’s not ‘feeling trapped’ to know that if you disagree with your superiors, attacking them on social media doesn’t go well for you. Only a couple of times in all those years have I faced that choice. Once, I dealt with it by leaving despite the stress it caused – I put my money where my mouth was. The other time, I sucked it up and got on with it, letting time itself prove me right. Thing is, I think you’re more than smart enough to understand that perfectly well – are you just sledging me here? It seems a rather passive aggressive way to debate with someone.
“Probably I don’t live in the type of world that you do. I work in one that doesn’t involve me being any kind of a slave.
Sure my bosses can fire me if they want to lose my skills. It has only ever happened a couple of times when month-by-month contracts weren’t renewed. That is the nature of contract work. Something that I have done for less than 2 years of my working life, each time to raise my skill levels.”
Ah, the slave argument again. I’m sorry man, but this sounds to me like something that libertarians would say to people campaigning for a living wage. If you think that most ordinary people who live in a real world where undermining your superiors on social media ends with getting fired is being a ‘slave’, I think you need to reconnect with working people. Most of us consider it quite logical that you’d get fired for doing that. It’s not a question of arguing that it’s unfair we don’t get to do it; it’s a question of arguing that it’s unfair that MPs think that’s an acceptable thing to do when purporting to represent us.
(edited for muddled final sentence)
Well said Cemetery Jones!!! Hundreds and thousands of +1’s on every comment you made in that discussion.
You are as ignorant as Cemetery Jones…
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08022017/#comment-1297327
I might be ignorant of how the Labour party works, but I get no joy from insulting people for not being an expert at the things I’ve chosen to be an expert at. I’m not a drone, but I believe that if you can’t follow your leader when the going gets tough then you’ll lose every time – I found this just playing football as a kid. Seems to me it’s true anywhere else. I might not be right about how authority works in the Labour party, but that was never my point. It’s how it looks to those of us outside of it who have that impression that ‘leader’ means that you’re in charge.
Ah the ritual whining…. I was wondering when we would get to that typical trollish run-away. After decades around the nets it becomes so so predicable.
I have no particular interest in explaining the basics of how every political party in parliament in this country operates. With the exception of the micro parties they all have very similar structures.
I am also not that much into blindly following leaders either. In fact I have strong track record over decades of telling them when I think that they are treading on dangerous ground. That applies just as much in business as it does in politics or the military. I don’t expect them to take my advice. I do expect them to listen and take note.
My criteria of someone that is a competent leader is that they can do exactly that. Because there are few people who are particularly competent across wide ranges of expertise.
On the nets I am wont to dispurse advice and education about things that I know. When a gentle hint doesn’t get through… well when I meet someone acting like dumb ox trying to batter down a gate and closing their ears whilst doing it, I find that lacing these with some sarcastic reflections of how they appear to me usually makes the lesson penetrate their obsessional stupidity.
This helps me in any subsequent interaction. Because I then don’t have to explain that is what I am likely to do again. The lesson is usually as memorable as your whining indicates it was today.
You can think what you like, I still agree with Cemetery Jones and Newsflash.
That’s cool, I’m not asking you to educate me on the internal workings of all the parliamentary parties. I just believe that MPs claiming to represent working people should be a little more in tune with them and not go around doing things that to us would be career ending.
“when I meet someone acting like dumb ox trying to batter down a gate and closing their ears whilst doing it, I find that lacing these with some sarcastic reflections of how they appear to me usually makes the lesson penetrate their obsessional stupidity.”
I don’t think there’s anything dumb about expecting Labour MPs to think a little about how it looks when you hire a PR firm to attack the party leader.
“This helps me in any subsequent interaction. Because I then don’t have to explain that is what I am likely to do again. The lesson is usually as memorable as your whining indicates it was today.”
Whining? I’ve got to be honest, that paragraph and the previous one sounds a bit pompous man. You’re saying that you taught me a lesson? I guess I learned that you can know an awful lot about the Labour party while not really getting what their voters expect from the people who presume to represent them, but I dunno if that’s something to be stoked about. It just seems a bit nihilistic.
Cemetery Jones
I understand your argument and agree with it, my biggest concern is the public spat created from the issue, one made public deliberately through a PR company, a show of unity is paramount at this stage of the election year. If members have concerns about any issue, they should be dealing with it behind closed doors, there is no excuse for unsolicited disagreements find there way into the public domain. Let history show time and time again, that if you want to air your dirty laundry in the public domain as a political party hoping to be elected in the near future, your chances are going to be severely curbed, many a good political party has failed to reach the finish line because of the lack of discipline and unity, not because they didn’t have the right policies or candidates.
Completely agree with you Newsflash.
You are as ignorant as Cemetery Jones…
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08022017/#comment-1297327
FFS The point is that you don’t understand the rules that Poto has to abide by. Clearly she does. One of the most specific things that everyone should do is to understand exactly under what conditions they work in.
And if you want to comment on someone else’s working situation like you are waffling on about, then you should get off your arse and learn about it BEFORE acting like a ignorant dork.
Andrew Little isn’t Poto Williams boss. He is a colleague acting in a different role – that of caucus leader. He doesn’t pay her, he doesn’t hold her employment contract, and he has very limited authority over her. Sure there is a political party involved who nominated her for the position. But she isn’t employed by them either.
She is employed by parliamentary services acting on behalf of the people who elected her. Directly in her case from her electorate. In the case of a list MP that would be the voters who voted for the party.
Now she can be removed from the position of being spokesperson by Andrew Little. She can be dropped from the party by the Labour party council. Those are actions that either of them could do. I am pretty sure that Poto would have calculated that
However neither are who she is employed by and who she is responsible to. She is a representative of the electorate who voted her in.
So why are you trying to say that Andrew Little is her boss?
You’re relying on technicalities to avoid addressing my point. And you need to use insults to make your point? I didn’t need to insult you, or to insult McFlock, even though I find your reasoning way off the mark.
Public perception matters big league. To us out there who are not versed in the minutae of party rules, the party leader is seen as being the boss. It might not be technically true, but I simply cannot believe that someone as knowledgeable as yourself would be unaware that this is how the public perceive the role to work, and that when MPs buck the party leader, that’s how it tends to be read.
We’re looking to Andrew Little as a potential prime minister. If he can’t just once in a while make a call and have it followed by his team, what kind of PM is he going to make? A bad one in most people’s book. We’re not asking him to be some kind of tinpot dictator, or for that to be the way he handles day-to-day decisionmaking. But if his team won’t abide when he makes a call which he has consulted them on, negotiated with them, and delivered a judgment that while he understands their concerns, this time he’s not for turning. That’s actually a sign of leadership to most of us. And as for Williams, yeah you know what? Most ordinary people are happy when consulted by our managers (can I say managers instead of bosses to avoid being insulted?), even if they don’t go with what we wanted. And be they managers, or be they bosses, or be they whatever a ‘caucus leader’ would be in a normal job, there’s just nowhere out there in voter land where you’re gonna find them being cool with you slagging off their decisions on social media.
Now, I feel like this is something I spoke with McFlock about but I understand these are two conversations, but to reiterate what I discussed with him, I don’t doubt that what you say is correct in the strictest terms of what goes in the Labour party, but surely you can see how we’d like to see Labour MPs having a bit of regard for what the rest of us go through in our daily lives and what would be appropriate for us? Let’s say Little is just a colleague for Williams. Most contracts these days have a clause about bringing your employer into disrepute, and I’m pretty sure that slagging off a coworker about things they’ve done in the workplace on social media would get you in trouble even if they weren’t your manager. That’s real life to us.
Let’s just examine that statement a little.
I think you will agree that if the Government is to change.. then it won’t just be Labour that form the Government. It is likely at the very least to include the Greens and dare I say it – NZF.
Little – if he is to be PM is going to have to collaborate not only with his Labour MPs, but also with two other parties.
The Greens, I can assure you, take the issue with regards to sexual abuse and the denigration of women very seriously:
https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/Green%20Party%20Sexual%20Orientation%20and%20Identity%20Policy.pdf
https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/Green%20Party%20Womens%20Policy.pdf
Two of the core principles of the Green Party are:
So I’m sorry – If Little is not going to split the Government within his first week of Premiership, then he will have to learn a bit more about negotiation, and collaboration, and give a bit more respect to the opinions of his colleagues.
I have explained up above about what I use insults. It helps make the point and reduces the amount of effort I have to expend in future interactions.
Can I also point out that you don’t make the rules about behaviour on this site. That is generally considered to be one of my roles. I wrote the manual on it.
Technicalities are the lifeblood of any argument for anyone who is actually interested in what they are waffling about. However I will accept that you don’t seem to want to know them. I envisage that in your political life you may be as unsuccessful as Donald Trump is at his getting his immigrant ban working. He also seemed to have skipped a few technicalities and got reamed by the courts for doing so.
Indeed. However as was pointed out many times repetitively over and over again. Andrew Little was not her employer, does not hold a contract with Poto Williams, and if there was such a clause ina code of conduct or the like then it would stand directly in the way of Poto Williams obligations to her real employers – the people who voted for her. That is a completely fatuous argument.
This is the case for EVERY MP in parliament. So your weak pleas to ignorance tend to indicate that you really should learn something about basic politics before waving your two inch troll dick around pretending that it is at least 10 inches.
I believe that you are managing to miss a vital point here. There are processes that any manager has to follow. If someone goes off and tries to coop or bypass me in my role without my permission and outside the bounds of the process, then they will have to show an immediate and justifiable cause or they will get a severe bollocking.
It sounds to me like you have a simple minded approach to working with and for other people. Which leads us back to McFlocks point about you acting like a simple wage slave. Or an adolescent in a sports team. Not very mature either way.
Well, it seems to me that you’re aggressively defending the notion that MPs shouldn’t have to be sensitive to how their activities look to voters. Good luck to them (and to you in defending them, I might add; if the Labour caucus is going to start acting like this again, then anyone who takes that job on is going to have a very busy 2017).
It’s interesting that you are so offended by me being ‘immature’ in demanding this, but you are not offended by politicians being demonstrably immature with their ill-disciplined, poorly timed, and counter productive social media behaviour. It’s like some of these folks have PhDs in losing.
Also, when I wrote what I thought was a reasonable observation about our different approaches to the topic:
“And you need to use insults to make your point? I didn’t need to insult you, or to insult McFlock, even though I find your reasoning way off the mark.”
You wrote back:
“Can I also point out that you don’t make the rules about behaviour on this site. That is generally considered to be one of my roles. I wrote the manual on it.”
For someone who accuses other people of being immature, I dunno where to start on that one. Tried a couple times but, just, no.
I think that the very fact we’re having these discussions demonstrates that ‘how it looks to voters’ is not exactly clear-cut.
Maybe Little should have made the same consideration, alongside asking “do I have the constitutional authority to make and announce this deal?” and “should I listen just a little bit harder to what people are saying to me as I consult caucus about this proposal?”
Dude, Lynn knows he’s being annoying and he’s not going to change. This is not an argument you are going to win. Nor would it be particularly helpful even if you did, Lynn doesn’t work for the Labour Party and doesn’t have any particular influence over them as far as I’m aware.
A.
Nope. I was briefly a branch chair for Sandringham back in the early 90s.
Being annoying, memorable, and being accurate about facts and downstream consequences far more often than not is my lever. It also takes a lot less time than spending loads of times in meetings or extended discussions.
And I get to hear the best of what others are capable of when they rise to the occasion. CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening!!
Nope. I was briefly a branch chair for Sandringham back in the early 90s.
Being annoying, memorable, and being accurate about facts and downstream consequences far more often than not is my lever. It also takes a lot less time than spending loads of times in meetings or extended discussions.
And I get to hear the best of what others are capable of when they rise to the occasion. CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening or thinking!!
Nope. What I am mostly pointing is that almost everything you are saying is incorrect. It is based largely on how you think that the world should operate with the type of leadership style that really should have beckme obsolete in the trenches a 100 years ago.
What I am referrong to is how the rules actually operate or who management, political or otherwise, actually works in modern times. This particular case is pretty interesting because Poto Williams did exactly what the party and the caucus requires her to do in her roles for them.
I don’t mind needling to ensure that I am getting through. In fact I find it to be kind of amusing seeing if certain types of commenters can in fact get beyond their inflexible thinking habits of a lifetime.
Take it as a compliment. I usually don’t bother because of my lack of time. Speaking of which. I had better head off to work.
Thanks Antoine, I’m definitely not conflating LP with the Labour Party – but it’s a debate where I’ve questioned their actions, and he has defended them, as is his right and mine.
LP, I won’t say any more than the items below – it’s your site etc.
“CJ however tends to remind me of the CJ from the Reginald Perrin books. Paraphrasing… I didn’the get where I am today by listening or thinking!!”
For a guy who claims to think so little of the points I made, it’s interesting how little you engaged with them in this debate, except for where you could selectively use details of inner party processes to argue that you don’t have to. This despite the fact that I was talking about how it looks to the public rather than how it works in private. You’ve studiously avoided engaging with the issue of how things look to the public and focused pretty much exclusively on what’s ok within the party – as if much of the public knows or cares when the news just covers an MP defying the leader in a party which is known for that but seeking to say it’s changed.
So yeah, disappointing on that score. I’ve overlooked the insulting tone which I felt was designed to troll me and not taken the bait by returning serve – but I won’t attempt to rewrite your site rules! I guess the ‘lesson’ I’ll be taking away isn’t the one you intended to impart. I’ll remember contrasts really; the pompous tone of the comments, the condescension immense not just in and of itself, but in equally immense contrast with the studious avoidance of discussing what I argued was the matter at hand – how bad this looks to much of the public. I can only hope that the Labour party themselves don’t make the same mistake, or we’re destined for 3 more years of National.
Thanks for providing the platform, in any case. I can see I reached a couple people who feel the same as me.
That conceitedness and abusiveness are lprent’s trademark behaviour. He patronisingly thinks he’s teaching people a lesson by abusing them, but as you say, the lesson people learn is not the one he thinks he’s imparting. The lesson I take from it is that it’s not worth trying to discuss things with him because he’s too arrogant to consider other points of view, and his hyper-aggression is a form of trolling to shut down discussion.
It’s possible to avoid him, but still, it must be harmful to the culture of the Standard to have a sysop with anger management issues and an inflated sense of the superiority of his own opinions. Is this kind of macho bullying style a factor in the well-known gender imbalance of the site?
Did I care? You appear to miss the point. As far as I am concerned this is an alternate way of moderating.
What I am concerned with is that I don’t have my attention attracted by people acting like fools. The best way of making sure that happens is for the foolish to not want to attract my attention. If I have time, I prefer to treat a fool like a fool. It is more effective than the other techniques I could use.
For the record, Williams would be bound by the Labour Caucus Rules – no idea what those comprise of, but if they apply it would be an avenue of discipline.
Yes. That is probably why she made a point of pointing out that what she did actually falls under her portfolio and therefore under her responsibilities to caucus. This was hardly reputable, and curiously, seems to have been largely unexamined by the commenters.
Think through what a probable caucus rule set would say about that.
I read the article, and disagree with you, and he was still talking of a “winnable list placing” which is what he spoke of before. But remember, Willie Jackson still has a process to go through first.
“The FBI’s Secret Rules
President Trump has inherited a vast domestic intelligence agency with extraordinary secret powers. A cache of documents offers a rare window into the FBI’s quiet expansion since 9/11.”
https://theintercept.com/series/the-fbis-secret-rules/
Well we know we were lied to about 9/11.
Joyce says
“We remain committed to reducing the tax burden on lower and middle-income earners when we have the room to do so”
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/324065/budget-date-set,-tax-cuts-likely
So, is he implying that high-income people will not get cuts?
And if so, what is a plausible mechanism for this to happen? (I.e. lower- and middle-income earners have their tax burden eased, and higher-income earners do not.)
Can’t change rates down or brackets up, since everyone gets less tax from those.
Or is he just not telling the whole story, and of course everyone will get cuts?
I see basic fact checking still on holiday with stuff reporting on the Waikato river death stating that mercury energy opened its dam gates.
It’s mighty river power, the generator, who own mercury, a retailer, who opened the gates.
Tuned into Parliament.
Just heard the outgoing deputy PM address the nation for the start of the year.
Paula spent 10 minutes gossiping about Labour. You know the type, a gossip, stirrer, bully. What a disgusting display it was, mutton as.
Obviously she is not too bright, a better use of time would be to talk up her own party.
But she didn’t, the outgoing deputy PM seems to have no ideas, no solutions, nothing nada.
And I don’t want to sound shallow, but by crikey she’s a big lass.
Is that all she does, gossip when given time to speak to the NZ public in Parliament? What a waste of tax payer money she is.
And it begins.
Labour’s vibe takes a dive
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/02/labour-s-vibe-takes-a-dive.html
It’s just another opinion.
And here’s another one.
It reminds me of the story of a guy who was jailed for stealing to support himself, years after he had served his time, the stigma still hung around, even though he had paid his debt to society in full, and learnt the lesson attached to it.
+1000 NewsFlash
Still can’t see why I was banned.
[lprent: I don’t like losing moderators. Having a fool attacking my moderators tends to piss me off.
But you aren’t banned because you didn’t quite quite drop over the bounds. Since the last comments I looked at last night from you were praising TDB. I thought of an appropriate warning that would serve a dual purpose.
All your comments are now subject to automatic moderation and release when a moderator feels like it. That is because you appear to have been ignoring gentle warnings from moderators about thinking before pressing submit.
And just think about how privileged you now are. You are now the only person on this site who can operate as if you are on TDB. Doesn’t that make you feel excited 😈 ]