Open Mike 08/03/2017

48 comments on “Open Mike 08/03/2017 ”

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1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

   8 March 2017 at 7:16 am

   Rebekah Roth describes the moment she realised the planes had been taken to Westover, and weren’t flown into the Twin Towers

   * Aluminum planes cannot cut through buildings
   * In 2001 cellphones did not work at altitude
   * 11 alledged hijackers were still alive after 9/11, some had rock solid alibis
   • McFlock 1.1

     8 March 2017 at 12:14 pm

     🙄
     • gsays 1.1.1

       8 March 2017 at 6:19 pm

       Shh.. it’s alright mcflock, you can keep believing that burning soft furnishings made a high rise fall into it’s footprint.(tower 7)
       Go back to sleep, the government is in charge.
       • McFlock 1.1.1.1

         8 March 2017 at 9:09 pm

         At least learn what a building’s “footprint” is.
   • mauī 1.2

     8 March 2017 at 5:51 pm

     Steele on 9/11 at 42:00 mins

     https://youtu.be/v2vC2nKyXWU?t=2522
2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

   8 March 2017 at 8:00 am

   CIA has lost control over it’s “hacking arsenal”. How is that even possible?
3. Sanctuary 3

   8 March 2017 at 8:00 am

   Watching Bill English, one is immediately reminded of the Peter principle that states “managers rise to the level of their incompetence”, as applied to political high office.

   The gaffes Bill English has been making – hanging on to that incompetent fool Nick Smith and the widely ridiculed “shit filled swimmable” rivers announcement, bungling his superannuation announcement, and revealing his prejudices against young New Zealand workers by labelling them lazy stoners as a justification to ethnically cleansing the workforce by importing pliant third world labour – show that he has been the beneficiary of the Peter principle not once, but twice in his political career. He was a disaster as a leader of the opposition in 2002, and it looks like he is becoming an even bigger disaster in his unelected elevation to the job of prime minister.
   • greywarshark 3.1

     8 March 2017 at 5:26 pm

     sanctuary
     No, no, he’s the greatest PM that NZ has. A man not to be replaced, just perfect as he is. Don’t deny it, he will lead like the Rat Catcher of Bremen playing his sweet, sweet music.
4. Andre 4

   8 March 2017 at 8:15 am

   More comment from the US tech industry about companies using immigrants on H1-B visas to keep salaries down. Just reinforces the idea that if a company says they need to hire an immigrant because they can’t find a suitable local, they should also be required to show they are going to pay well above average rates.

   http://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/at-work/tech-careers/commentary-the-h1b-problem-as-ieeeusa-sees-it
   • Sabine 4.1

     8 March 2017 at 8:35 am

     i think that this is true for every company that wants to import workers cause ‘ shortages’.

     but hey, you know we have been told that the issue here in NZ is lazy, drug addled workers that are clearly hopeless, it ain’t the shit pay, the non existing benefits and such. And besides how is a company to turn a profit if they would have to pay market prices for their goods. A little corporate welfare is needed, muchly.
5. AsleepWhileWalking 5

   8 March 2017 at 8:34 am

   In 1893 the average life of a US mortgage was less than 6 years and accounted for less than 40% of the property value. – wikipedia
   • saveNZ 5.1

     8 March 2017 at 10:02 am

     That was clearly before globalism… and have to compete for property with everyone else in the world and as a government investment category for migrants to actually encourage the practise…

     Family’s Papakura home ‘flipped’ by property investor for instant $81k profit

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11813743
     • Molly 5.1.1

       8 March 2017 at 10:12 am

       There is a question to be asked is of the seller’s agent.

       Do they have a list of investors who will give him commission on a sale, knowing that one of the requirements for those investors is that they will be able to flip the property without any input?

       If so, while taking their payment from the sellers they are effectively working against them in order to make two commissions rather than one.

       (IMO, this is quite likely a widely practised method of sale).
6. Adrian 6

   8 March 2017 at 8:51 am

   I can’t get my head around this as well. There’s a story in the Herald about an Indian immigrant who has been royally ripped off by Indian service station employers.
   All sympathy to him but he and his family got into NZ for him to, by the looks of it, work as a fuel pump attendant.
   We are obviously bloody short of them.
   Or he got in to drive Kiwis wage expectations down.
   Nah, the Nats wouldn’t let that happen, eh.
   On a related note, a mate of mine who is a Chilean winery manager is trying to run a NZ owned facility from Chile on the internet, he was sent back to renew his visa, because they say there must be an NZer who can do it.
   Over the last 5 years or so he has moved up from asst winemaker to overall manager of this facility which exports about 10 million litres of wine, about 75 million dollars worth of overseas earnings.
   It’s a high skilled techo job.
   WTF is going on.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     8 March 2017 at 9:38 am

     WTF is going on.

     Not what we’re told is going on which makes what the government and businesses are telling us lies.
   • saveNZ 6.2

     8 March 2017 at 10:05 am

     +1 Adrian – maybe Bill English’s dream low wage economy where we don’t want real high skills from migrants but actually low migrant skills to drive down wages, think corruption is part of dealing with government and destroy the welfare system…
     • Tamati Tautuhi 6.2.1

       8 March 2017 at 11:08 am

       Bill English a few years ago was talking NZ up as a low wage economy, if employers can drive wages down there is more profit for the company and the shareholders.

       New Zealanders can not compete against new immigrants who have family working for them or their own people who they are paying less than minimum wages.

       However this is the society that New Zealanders want by voting in a National Government, unfortunately they are handing over a poisoned chalice to the next Government and one hell of a mess to tidy up.
       • saveNZ 6.2.1.1

         8 March 2017 at 11:31 am

         Exactly this worker told ERA he was expected to work for free or pay $25,000 for his petrol attendant job for Corporate Energy which is now in liquidation . He had left a previous job for European Auto, (so you have to wonder how bad that job was if he thought working as a petrol attendant for Corporate Energy was a better bet.)

         This was in 2012 – we have had a huge increase in immigration since then, but it takes 5 years to sort it all out all the scams?

         Having exploitative employers competes unfairly against other employers who are doing a good job and paying and treating their employees fairly. It’s the good ones, paying their taxes, probably going under and who knows if corporate energy is just a front for another company that can just be liquidated so they don’t have to meet their obligations…

         Hiring this worker has probably been a disaster for all involved including the exploited worker who did not get paid! The original company lost their employee who they sponsored, the new company is in liquidation presumably left not paying their debts to IRD, and other suppliers, and the taxpayer has to fund ERA and immigration officers to sort it all out.

         Nobody is winning with these scenarios!
       • Cinny 6.2.1.2

         8 March 2017 at 11:34 am

         And that’s what is happening in our region.

         Families are being kicked out of homes because the landlord would rather make money from immigrants. A family can rent a 3/4 bedroom house for around $400 or so a week, but a landlord can make more money by placing 12 islanders in the same dwelling and charge them per person at $125 per week. If the landlord is also the owner of the orchard that employs the islanders, it makes for cheap labour as their wages are offset by their accommodation costs.

         What really sucks, the islanders won’t realise what’s happening, they would be mortified to discover families were being kicked out of homes because of them, and the islanders all crammed into the house will be enjoying better accommodation than they would at home and won’t have a clue they are being exploited.
         Sheez, the poor buggers, they have no clue, and at some orchards, when you see a ‘spraying in progress’ sign, you will also see an islander on a tractor, spraying away, no safety gear, exploitation is rife in some (not all) orchards around Motueka.
         Rather hire an islander, they don’t complain, they don’t know their rights in NZ to do so and they are too scared they will get the sack if they do. If a local was hired, they might talk about poor work conditions to their friends and the orchard would get a bad reputation, can’t have that happening.

         Love the islanders that come here for the work, but I hate the way it is all going down this season, way too many families are suffering, because there simply isn’t enough housing for everyone.

         I know i keep mentioning this issue, but dang I heard of another family that it has happened to just yesterday.
7. Andre 7

   8 March 2017 at 9:04 am

   Colbert discusses the weekend Trump tweetfarts. Featuring a cameo from Morrissey’s favourite “sentient testicle”.

   https://youtu.be/acsVEcenPEw
8. The Chairman 8

   8 March 2017 at 10:34 am

   “At the age of 71 Winston Peters still fills a university lecture theatre like no other political leader and is guaranteed a standing ovation almost every time.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/90166384/winston-peters-draws-big-crowd-of-university-students-to-hammer-home-nz-first-policy
9. Tamati Tautuhi 9

   8 March 2017 at 11:13 am

   Winston has been around and understands NZ’s political history you have to hand it to him he is resilient after the bad press he has had from uneducated political and economic commentators in MSM over the last 30-40 years.

   The problem is Winston tells people how it is and unfortunately the truth hurts, most political and economic journalists in MSM are writing the script and narrative their owners and stakeholders wish to hear, Mike Hoskings is a typical example of an MSM shrill?
   • The Chairman 9.1

     8 March 2017 at 11:43 am

     “Winston has been around and understands NZ’s political history you have to hand it to him he is resilient after the bad press he has had from uneducated political and economic commentators in MSM over the last 30-40 years. ”

     Indeed.

     With Key standing down, Little and Labour under performing in the polls and building off their by-election win, NZF should do rather well this year.

     Winston largely by-passes the media (allowing him full control of the narrative) and goes directly to the public, packing halls all around the country.
     • tc 9.1.1

       8 March 2017 at 2:46 pm

       Winston knows how to keep it simple and focuses on issues everyone can understand.

       Simple is good, simple works, simple delivers results as northland showed.
       • saveNZ 9.1.1.1

         8 March 2017 at 8:01 pm

         Northland was the result of a deliberate strategy and collaboration to beat National. It was not simple but it certainly proved effective!

         More please…

         Life has become too complicated. Everyone is constantly ripped off by small print in the paperwork and being lied too. We are living in an Animal farm meets Kafka world.

         Winston is popular because he can say something easy to understand that makes sense to many. Also he seems to keep his promises aka Gold card and Super.

         I’d trust him before National any day of the week especially if I was conservative! And he’s got some good socialist policies in the mix too.

         Hopefully with Labour and Greens they can turn the NZ Titanic captained by Bill English around before it hits the iceberg and 67% of the occupants drown.
   • jcuknz 9.2

     8 March 2017 at 1:41 pm

     TT ….rather mis-educated than uneducated I am sorry to say as I experienced early in my media carear as I was roasted by my boss because I expressed different ideas from the ‘authorised lecturer’ staff were encouraged to listen to.
10. AsleepWhileWalking 10

    8 March 2017 at 12:06 pm

    Not normal at all, apart from the fact I’ve spoken with people who have had concerns about attitudes at Wellington College. Is there something in this particular section of Wellington that makes them different?

    Let’s hope that they think through behavior before they ruin their own lives and those of the women around them.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/90179350/cultural-shift-needed-to-put-an-end-to-attitudes-toward-sexual-violence-experts-say
11. saveNZ 11

    8 March 2017 at 12:43 pm

    Another heritage building demolished like a piece of garbage…

    http://www.homestolove.co.nz/inside-homes/people-places/must-never-happen
12. Bill 12

    8 March 2017 at 2:00 pm

    Rape Crisis will not accept funding contracts from the Ministry of Social Development if it is required to hand over clients’ private details, the service says.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/326040/rape-crisis-will-risk-funding-to-keep-data-private

    And will this government be ideologically happy enough with that insofar as it can only promote the idea of wholly private entities servicing social needs?

    I get how the pragmatics of politics kind of demand a response, but I’m just wondering about the ideology in this comment.
    • McFlock 12.1

      8 March 2017 at 2:26 pm

      Well, their choice seems to be either choose between only private funding and death quietly, or at least say why.

      I know of another group that’s not going for MSD contracts because of this very reason, but is being quiet about it.
      • weka 12.1.1

        8 March 2017 at 2:30 pm

        RC has long relied on community funding i.e. donations. It’s not ‘private’.

        “I know of another group that’s not going for MSD contracts because of this very reason, but is being quiet about it.”

        I’ve heard of one too, but we’ll see if they stick to their integrity. If there was ever a time for community-based social services to finally stand up to the govt, this is it.
        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          8 March 2017 at 2:33 pm

          meant “private vs govt”.

          It should be govt funded directly (although in the world of “shoulds” it should probably be an actual government agency).
          • weka 12.1.1.1.1

            8 March 2017 at 2:37 pm

            Sure, but I’m suggesting that it’s not that helpful to frame this as govt vs private. For instance I would guess that many community groups still get funding from community funders. RC also does a street appeal, and I would guess gets private donations. So a range of options 🙂
            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              8 March 2017 at 2:50 pm

              But in this case, we have a government that doesn’t want to fund things of social value or importance (and I believe has already tried to cut RC funding? ISTR something a year or two back). Now the government is introducing rules that will have the effect of not letting those organisations actually receive any funding that might technically be available.

              As for the range of options, I have different roles with a couple of groups at the moment that illustrate the problem. The first group has government contracts on a 3 or 5 year basis, and is a preferred provider. Not perfectly secure, but you can at least plan ahead for a few years.

              The other group is at the stage of spending shedloads of time looking for funding from community trusts, local bodies, national bodies, and individuals. First item on board’s agenda is “applications out, results back in”. We still can’t plan more than a month or two ahead, and it could all fall over if we simply have a bad run of applications.

              So yeah, I think the reliance on private vs public funding is a serious issue for projects of social value in the current financial environment.
              • weka …

                8 March 2017 at 3:18 pm

                “So yeah, I think the reliance on private vs public funding is a serious issue for projects of social value in the current financial environment.”

                Current political environment I think. Try forward planning when your client base no longer trusts you because you’re siding with a fascist govt 😉
                • McFlock …

                  8 March 2017 at 3:23 pm

                  also true
    • weka 12.2

      8 March 2017 at 2:27 pm

      Good on RC for taking this stand.

      “I get how the pragmatics of politics kind of demand a response, but I’m just wondering about the ideology in this comment.”

      Not sure what you are meaning there Bill. RC have always been what you are calling a wholly private entity. I’d call them a community group myself. Are you asking about the ideology of RC? Their position on this, that they won’t hand over client details to the govt even if it means losing funding, fits their long standing kaupapa, that they are first and foremost an organisation for rape survivors. I’m heartened to see that in this day and age they will stand their ground and tell the govt to fuck off.

      “And will this government be ideologically happy enough with that insofar as it can only promote the idea of wholly private entities servicing social needs?”

      Except they don’t, so I’m not sure what you mean. Maybe you could say what you mean by wholly private entity?
      • Bill 12.2.1

        8 March 2017 at 4:13 pm

        Yeah, badly worded.

        I mean community groups relying wholly on private donations and the government stepping away completely from any obligations it may have had…maybe angling to be a bit like the US where we mere mortals can gush at the rich and famous competing with one another to write out the largest cheque for some ‘approved’ list of ‘charitable’ causes?
13. John up North 13

    8 March 2017 at 3:35 pm

    Yet another market Kiwi’s finding themselves locked out of

    “Recent figures from QV showed median property values in Wanaka and Queenstown hit $1 million, rising 30 percent in one year.”

    and

    “But Wanaka’s high living costs and low wages were also a problem.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/326109/soaring-wanaka-prices-lock-residents-out-of-property-market

    That last quote from the article is an ongoing problem in most main centers but we’re not gonna have that conversation on low wages cause all the kids in NZ are stoners and lazy.

    And that dick head Rodney Hide has run the same line as Benglish (in the NBR) about our kids, funny that as both were caught all sticky handed after “mis-spending” tax payers cash cause they “didn’t” interpret the rules correctly?????
14. Daphna 14

    8 March 2017 at 4:02 pm

    For some clarity on the real issues surrounding the retirement age check this out:

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/pensions-and-the-retirement-age-the-problem-is-capitalism-not-an-aging-population/
15. Glenn 15

    8 March 2017 at 7:36 pm

    Very good article Daphna taught me a lot .

    “Only a couple of decades ago – and people were living longer then than they had been at any time in history – we were being told that the biggest problem we’d face was how to fill up our soon-to-be vastly expanded leisure time as dramatic increases in productivity would substantially shorten our work week while still delivering a high standard of living.”

    I remember. And then the bastards stuffed it up.
16. swordfish 16

    8 March 2017 at 10:56 pm

    Just to give an example, I’m sitting here debating whether to name some of those on the largest left wing blog in NZ.

    Best not to conflate principled criticism surrounding (1) the inherent authoritarian tendencies, (2) questionnable assertions and (3) dubious tactics of the new cult-like SJW extreme of Third Way Feminism with any sort of antipathy towards core feminist concerns in general.

    You can end up seeing enemies where none exist.

    As much as they like to wrap themselves tightly in the mantle of both feminism in particular and New Zealand womanhood in general – the SJWs represent neither.

    Indeed the SJW’s bully-boy illiberalism is coming under an increasingly forceful critique from progressive feminists.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • swordfish 16.1

      8 March 2017 at 11:40 pm

      Still intrigued, weka, by your deduction of a developing conspiracy … one where a whole lot of white heterosexual male kiwi Lefties (apparently holding deeply conservative views on both women and various moral issues) have become emboldened by their intellectual Gurus – Don “The Donald” Trump, Christopher “”The Trotsky” Trotter – along it seems with various doyens of the alt-Right – to unmask and vigorously pursue their true retrograde agenda …

      But the anti-IP stuff that is coming up not just with him but with others, that’s lefties taking their memes not just from the like of Trotter but from the alt-right. I find it concerning and it does look to me like these are predominantly white men who are emboldened by the US election result.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-07022017/#comment-1297046

      That’s what the whole anti-IP is starting to look like. The false framing of what IP is, and the push from lefties who also support Tr*mp.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-07022017/#comment-1297062

      That alone is enough to make me have less than zero respect for people running pro-Tr*mp/anti-IP lines. They either don’t believe there is a risk, which makes them fools, or they do but they think the risk is worth it to make gains in their political agenda. There is vindictiveness there too, even outside of the US stuff. I think in NZ there are lefties emboldened by Tr*mp’s victory and the nasty just raised a notch.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/the-dynamic-of-vindictive-winners/#comment-1297621

      Any evidence you’d like to share ?
      • McFlock 16.1.1

        9 March 2017 at 12:16 am

        do you regard yourself as being “left”?
        • swordfish 16.1.1.1

          9 March 2017 at 12:57 am

          Da !

          A Left Social Democrat – one who values independent thought and has little time for bully-boys character assassins and zealots
          • McFlock 16.1.1.1.1

            9 March 2017 at 1:08 am

            Does “SJW” refer to the term “Social Justice Warrior” that has been appropriated by the gamergate/altright crowd?

            Because in response to one sentence from Weka you linked to three of her comments, made two relatively long comments yourself, and used the acronym “SJW” several times when nobody else in the thread has.

            I suggest that you’ve provided quite a bit of “evidence” with those two comments.
            • swordfish 16.1.1.1.1.1

              9 March 2017 at 1:51 am

              As I say – little time for bully-boys, character assassins, and zealots.

              SJW ? – concise way to highlight precisely who I’m talking about (while conveying irritation at their uber-authoritarianism … a view shared by a number of their progressive feminist critics … which incidentally is where I came across the term)

              And it’s a smeary Stalinist sort of authoritarianism on full display in your comment – very much reminds me of Arthur Miller’s The Crucible.

              “Let you beware, Mr. Danforth. Think you to be so mighty that the power of Hell may not turn your wits ?”

              Always that ugly little Mcarthyite threat of smears and character assassination – eh ?

              [1. the last time you and I talked, I was calling you out on an outright attack on myself as an author, by you, that was completely inaccurate, unfounded and unfair. What I remember most from that was that you withdrew your comment and apologised for being mistaken but didn’t apologise for the actual attack.

              2. There are some pretty interesting conversations to be had about feminism in NZ and on TS, but the point I was making was that as a feminist I have think about whether it’s wise to even mention the elephant in the living room. I’m not the only one. Thanks for so ably demonstrating my point.

              3. As you probably know, I take a particular dislike to my views being misrepresented. Take this as a warning to tread more carefully in future.

              4. It beggars belief that you would choose International Women’s Day and this post in particular to have a go at the only regular woman author on this blog, and lecture her on her own mind. You want to debate with me about feminism? Find an appropriate way to do it (this wasn’t even close).

              5. This subthread looks like a derailment and attack on an author. If you didn’t intend to attack me, then I suggest you take more care in future in how you talk about me. If you did intend to attack me, have a read of the Policy. I doubt there will be many more warnings (see the moderator note and Lynn’s response here.

              6. You are now banned from this thread (mostly out of respect for Sandra Coney and the people that want to talk about her speech).

              7. Don’t like authoritarianism? Me neither. I write and moderate in a system on TS that was set up by men, and most of the need for authority was in response to the kind of shit you just pulled. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Lynn and Mike. – weka
              • McFlock …

                9 March 2017 at 11:57 am

                Did I take something out of context or misrepresent your reaction in any way? Because unless I did, the only “character assassination” against yourself has been purely self-inflicted.

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