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Open mike 08/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 8th, 2014 - 207 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

207 comments on “Open mike 08/06/2014 ”

  1. here we go..!

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/ed-corporate-media-trout-colin-espiner-comes-out-pimping-for-banks-to-get-ahis-discharge-without-conviction/

    ..we’ll be getting quite a bit of this ‘he’s been punished enough!’-bullshit between now and the sentencing..

    ..one of the espiners is first cab off the rank…..

    ..the campaign for a discharge-without-conviction for banks is underway..

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      And the answer to that is that he hasn’t been punished enough – because he hasn’t yet been punished for being a corrupt arsehole.

    • Jackal 1.2

      The right wing propagandists are certainly going to town with their ‘Banks is an honourable man’ rubbish! Apparently he might even appeal the decision, implying that he’s somehow not really guilty until this happens. Of course that would be a complete waste of court time and public money because there are no grounds to appeal.

      The evidence succinctly shows that he’s guilty, which begs the question; why exactly did the Police fail to press charges in the first place?

      With the now disgraced Maurice Williamson going on about National MP’s contacting the Police during ongoing investigations not being out of the ordinary, perhaps those are two dots that should be joined together in this false declaration case? The Police’s reasoning for not pursuing the matter at the time was clearly flawed and the Government pressuring them to not press charges is a plausible explanation for such failure. With National’s track record and a strong motive to stay in power, what other explanation is there?

      The Police’s choice to not lay charges has now been categorically proven to be unjustified by the judge’s decision and summary.

      In my opinion, that guilty verdict should mean Banks is already out the door. We certainly don’t need anymore representation of conmen within parliament and there certainly doesn’t need to be all the hoopla that’s going on. By remaining in power he’s essentially ripping us taxpayers off while giving us the finger. In fact the Act party is treating this as an opportunity to gain media attention, which is clearly not warranted considering their 0.5% polling.

      There is no question that the Act party is dead in the water and the sooner they, National and the media realise it the better. Then we can get on with some real coverage of more important issues instead of a sideshow with a bunch of Nactoid clowns that wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them in the arse!

  2. Colonial Viper 2

    53,000 people now use New York City’s homeless shelters every night

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-07/explaining-nycs-record-homelessness-one-disastrous-chart

    • Chooky 2.1

      Seems like homelessness is a problem in China too….

      “China’s government added concrete spikes underneath China’s city bridges in an effort to stop homeless people from sleeping there. The sharp 20-cm high spikes in Guangzhou have surfaced online, angering citizens who accuse the government of trying to “hide” the homelessness problem.

      The area’s Bureau of City Management, Bureau of Transportation, and Bureau of Construction have all denied responsibility for the work.

      According to recent statistics, 200 million of China’s 1.4 billion population are homeless.”…

      http://elitedaily.com/news/world/china-puts-concrete-spikes-stop-homeless-sleeping-bridges/

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        Well, for the Beijing Olympics the authorities rounded up and bussed all the beggars and homeless people 500km out of town, knowing that by the time they made it back into Beijing the Olympics (and the journolists) would be gone.

  3. Marius 3

    yeah. i remember a stat not long ago claiming 200,000 homeless people sleep on the streets of america every night – 40 % of which are war vets. and there’s obama dishing out the money to israel for the murder and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. is it any wonder people like banksie fiddle the books now and then. well, that might be Boag’s reasoning – if she were honest.

    • David H 3.1

      I noticed her skulking around in the back of the crowd, like some frustrated vampire.

    • Lanthanide 3.2

      I really don’t understand why war veterans are so venerated in the US. Especially since the cynical military-industrial complex deliberately hires from the lower classes, often from the southern states. Then everyone’s surprised when they get shit out the other end with no support?

      • Colonial Viper 3.2.1

        I really don’t understand why war veterans are so venerated in the US.

        There are many reasons, but a major one is the average American’s perception of what those veterans are doing during their overseas service e.g. protecting American freedoms, values and way of life from terrorists who hate them for no understandable or valid reason.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2

        I really don’t understand why war veterans are so venerated in the US.

        It’s part of the myth of the Glory of War that’s been perpetrated for centuries seemingly finding its ultimate expression in US consciousness.

      • Murray Olsen 3.2.3

        They only pretend to venerate them, and it’s all to do with making volunteering attractive. Young men commonly think of themselves as invincible, and never think they might be the one who comes home with PTSD instead of legs. So they keep volunteering. Personally, I favour a draft. When Obama’s and Key’s kids go in the front line as well, we’ll see a lot less enthusiasm for war.

  4. (..’ew!’..just..’ew!’..)

    “..What’s Really in Hot Dogs? – Watch This Video to Find Out..

    “..Want to know what’s actually in a hot dog?

    Surprisingly – the answer is not ‘hooves – lips – and skunk anus’.

    Well – not JUST hooves – lips – and skunk anus..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/food/whats-really-hot-dogs-watch-video-find-out

    ..didya go to the footy last nite..?

    ..didya have a hot dog..?..

  5. David H 5

    Watching a recording of yesterdays Nation programme and my god… A bag of Flour for Paul Goldsmith. Joyce was asinine as usual, a lot of hot air for nothing, but air pollution. And Coddington still as mad as a meat axe. And no Gower!

  6. Awww 6

    Greens abortion policy….staunch move!

  7. Lanthanide 7

    Lynn – more fun with numbered lists.

    They don’t render on the mobile version of the site.

  8. veutoviper 8

    For anyone interested, here is a link to the YouTube recording of the Internet Party candidate selection meeting yesterday – all 4 hours plus of it.

    http://t.co/ah3cP7OSwF

    The first part covers the individual presentations by each of the 22 shortlisted candidates where they were given one minute to say why they wanted to be part of the IP and then two minutes to talk about an IP policy issue of their choice. These presentations take about two thirds of the video.

    The last third covers the process where all the potential candidates were on stage and each had been given a soft topic to argue in favour of for one minute, followed by two minutes of answering questions from the floor, the Executive panel or other candidates. Questions were pretty insipid – eg why the All Blacks’ colour should be changed to yellow; why the NZ capital should be moved to Gore; Christchurch should be rebuilt in Leggo, etc.

    During the first part, IP members were able to rate each person from 1 to5 (5 being the high) using an app, whether they were at the meeting or watching the live stream. During the second stage, members were asked to rate their favourite candidate and could change this as the process continued. The ratings were screened behind the candidates in real time.

    The potential candidates are a real mix. About one third are women; most candidates are in their 20s or 30s, but also some older with one 60; good mix in terms of ethnicity (pakeha, maori, pasifica, asian, one Iranian NZer); wide range of work backgrounds etc.

    Apparently there are further steps in the selection process today – eg individual interviews with the Panel (made up of KDC, Laila Harre, Vikram Kumar and one other man whose name I did not pick up).

    I have not watched the whole thing (4 hours is way past my interest/endurance) but it will be interesting to see who makes it through to the final 15.

    • weka 8.1

      Thanks for the link and overview, that’s all pretty interesting. Will try and get a look at da vid. Pity they didn’t put it up in sections.

      • veutoviper 8.1.1

        Glad you saw my comment, weka, because it was essentially in reply to your comment on yesterday’s OM asking about it. It is a pity they did not put it up in sections, but it is quite easy to fast forward and just see bits.

  9. Chooky 9

    Why womens emancipation from the patriarchial fascist power and control over their fertility is crucial to saving the Planet !

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion/2013/01/catholic-church-out-of-step-with-21st-century-human-overpopulation-human-misery-2441660.html

    “Women & Sustainability: Why They Need Each Other in a Post-MDG World”

    Women’s health and the planet’s health are inextricably intertwined. For too long we’ve pretended otherwise, but that is changing rapidly. In fact, there’s a powerful ripple effect that emerges from women’s empowerment. Women are healthier. Children are healthier. Death and disease go way down. All as a result of simple investments in basic technologies like condoms, the pill, and prenatal healthcare.

    Investment in reproductive health also brings about noteworthy dividends for our planet’s ability to sustain us all. When we empower individuals and families with the information and services they need to decide on all aspects related to reproduction and sexuality, we create more sustainable and just communities. Give women choices about their children, and they make smart choices about their environment, too….

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carmen-barroso/women-millennium-development-goals_b_3279684.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_the_environment

    • bad12 9.1

      Sure Chooky, i forgot to include this one on my little list of reasons put forward by the pro lobby as to why there should be open slather abortion,

      Dunno if i should include it above or below Disraeli’s later denied fervently ”casual unprotected sex abounds, abortion is an efficient means of cleaning up any unwanted consequences”,

      Funny tho aint it Chooky, in the past 30-40 years the Planets population has leapt ahead in great bounds as far as numbers go despite plenty of countries having adopted similar abortion laws to ours which have seen the number of abortions spiral,

      Given that, does ”the plan” propose to inflict such Laws on those countries that do not have them, and as the population is unlikely to be seriously dented numbers wise by having such Laws do you think we should disregard the ‘choice’ bit…

      • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1

        Don’t use quotation marks when you’re not quoting someone. It’s very dishonest of you, Bad.

        • bad12 9.1.1.1

          Are there ”paraphrase” marks available Disraeli, does the content between the ”s not encapsulate most of what you said in the other post,(note i also credit you with ”later fervently denied”)…

          • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.1.1

            You didn’t paraphrase me or quote me. If you can’t even read what I wrote, then there’s no point even trying to bring it up in a later conversation because you look ridiculous.

            • bad12 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Wrong again Gallstone sorry, i just looked in the mirror and NO according to an admittedly personal measurement i do not look ridiculous,

              SO you deny then ever using words to the effect that: ”casual unprotected sex is common and therefor freely provided abortions are a good means of sanitizing the consequences of such actions”…

              • Disraeli Gladstone

                Yes, I do deny it. Unsurprisingly, you are wrong on various different levels.

                I did not say casual unprotected sex is common. I said that casual sex is now normal, healthy and people shouldn’t be judged for it. Nothing about unprotected sex there. Unprotected sex is dangerous and we should educate people about it.

                I also didn’t say that abortions are a “good” means of dealing with the consequences of the actions. Abortions should be the last resort and we should aim to bring down abortions rate. Ultimately, though, it has to be a choice open to a woman if she wishes to have it.

                I will try and write this in baby steps for you because you struggle with reading comprehension. Here is the position that I repeated numerous times:

                • People have different attitudes to sex. Some people engage in casual sex. Some people prefer monogamous sex after dating. Some people only have sex after married. These are all okay. No one should be judged for their preference. They are all capable of being healthy lifestyles.
                • Unprotected casual sex is a problem, though. Heck, unprotected sex in general can be a problem until the partners have been checked and there’s no trust issues. Though while still an issue, I don’t think it’s as common as you’re trying to make it out. The majority of people practice safe sex.
                • We need better sex ed. We need to ensure that there are conversations around birth control and sexually transmitted disease. We also need to have conversations around consent and attitude towards the other gender.
                • We need better, cheaper access to birth control. We need to be in a position where no one is unable to use a birth control that is reliable and well-suited to their own health needs. This would reduce abortion rates and unplanned pregnancies. Any costs would be vastly recouped by the savings made from the costs that arise from unplanned pregnancies. We do however have to be aware that birth control is hardly ever 100% effective.
                • Abortion needs to be legal and freely available for women who make the choice to have one. Making abortion illegal leads to dangerous back street abortion that costs lives and it leads to mental health problems for the women who engage in it. We need a supportive, informed background to allow women to make the choice that is best for them. And with the above issues in place, that should see abortion rates drop and the process being used merely as a last resort, not a “good means” of getting rid of the consequences.

                So in a nutshell, you’re ridiculously wrong that I said “casual unprotected sex is common and therefor freely provided abortions are a good means of sanitizing the consequences of such actions”.

                • blue leopard

                  Well said, Disraeli,

                  I think when an issue is as sensitive and contentious as this one, it is really good that people make an attempt to be respectful; to read comments carefully and not take them out of context and misrepresent what people are saying, which bad12 clearly did with your comment.

                  If one wishes for a constructive discussion this is important. If one wishes to be ‘right’ no matter what – then carry on bad12 – but do realise that people reading may well read through your poor representation of others’ arguments and consider you very wrong for doing so. (I conclude such things even if I am arguing on the same ‘side’ as the person conducting such tactics.) If an argument has merit – it can be argued on the points, not underhand tactics. On an issue such as this one – I think it is particularly bad form to conduct such tactics.

                  I found myself on the side of the debate for abortion, and wasn’t too comfortable about that – knowing it is important to respect life and not wishing to promote abortion, however I found it incredibly objectionable that some assumed that women making the decision to terminate a pregnancy are being irresponsible, and were promoting the idea that someone other than the women should be involved in making that decision in order to ensure the life of the child is considered as if women can avoid considering this, or that the women should be forced into continuing with the pregnancy? – these are simply not reasonable conclusions to draw.

                  Adding to this, when it comes to having children when on a low income also leaves women targeted for similar levels of judgement, contempt and vitriol makes me realise that there is still something very very wrong with attitudes toward women.

                  After debating all day yesterday on the matter, I sat down to do some study on International Relations and as complete coincidence would have it I was reading a chapter on poverty and hunger – and guess what? Women and children are forming the majority in these statistics; Internationally and internally in our own nation. This is a University textbook – not a conspiracy theory dvd. There is something very, very wrong with this picture. And while people continue to blame those most disadvantaged by our system, I suggest that not a whole lot is going to improve with this flawed system we have.

                  So I suggest to those of you wishing to curb the rate of abortions, I strongly suggest that you focus on the reasons why women might be doing such and try and address these matters, rather than attempt to force them to carry on with pregnancies when they do not feel capable of providing a decent life for that child (for what-ever reason, emotionally or materially) Because as others’ mentioned – whether abortion is legal or not – women will persist if they are desperate enough, so you are only pushing for a dire situation to become more dire.

                  The Greens had the correct idea – in that very policy they have mentioned the aim/availability of additional support for women who might carry on with their pregnancy bar their vulnerable position. As usual the Greens have thought of the wider picture. Well done the Greens.

                • bad12

                  Right Gallstone, so casual sex is all good, and aborting the end result of such casual sex is also all good,(that neatly paraphrases you points),

                  SO, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time with a third strand of ”fluff” being added in the form of ”more education” ”more contraceptives freely available”,

                  Your conversation so far, abbreviated, ”casual sex is all good” ”fluff” ”casual sex which results in an abortion is all good” ”fluff” ”fluff” equals ”casual unprotected sex which leads to abortion is all good”,

                  You can ”fluff” all you like over ‘education’ and availability of ‘birth control contraceptives’ but that is your obvious position, and, the number of abortions despite the introduction of more education and more birth control contraceptives suggests that either contraceptives fail on a far greater scale than anyone will admit too, or, despite education and availability people having casual sex choose not to use them….

                  • blue leopard

                    There is no point in debating with someone in the state of rabid hysteria that bad12 appears to be in.

                    It is like watching someone with rabies.

                    Poor show, bad12, extremely poor show.

                    I suggest you go and debate a topic you actually have some insight on.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz perfect argument Blue leopard, people that disagree are rabid hysterics, actually i preferred Stephanie’s rather snide expressed ”suspicions” the other day as the ”attempt” at silencing the debate,

                      ”Suspects” or having ”suspicions” adds so much more excitement to the debate than a simpletons ”rabies” or hysterics” don’t you think…

                    • blue leopard

                      It is not that I disagree with your comment that I describe you as such.
                      It is the quality of your argument that I base my conclusions on.
                      Have you no points that have merit you can raise? Is misrepresenting what people are saying, the only way you can continue the debate?
                      How do you think you can make a point by making up what people are saying?

                  • Disraeli Gladstone

                    I don’t think you know what paraphrase means.

                    But never mind. I think I put forward my position quite succinctly and clearly. There’s no real contradiction in it. You twist them to change what I’m saying to meet your own deluded position and there’s no point trying to engage with you if you’re either going to deliberately twist my words or simply cannot comprehend the English language.

                    I’ll leave with this suggestion, though, from what I learnt about you over the last two days.

                    Don’t vote the Internet MANA Party. Try voting the Conservatives. They seem to fit your dinosaur attitudes a little better.

                • Chooky

                  +100

          • marty mars 9.1.1.1.2

            I think single ‘ can be used to show paraphrasing but I find it’s easier to say something like, and to paraphrase xyz, ‘it is raining here and it is wet’ – there can be no misinterpretation with that.

            • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1.2.1

              Indeed.

            • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.1.2.2

              Agreed. The issue wasn’t really how to quote or paraphrase anyway. It was the fact that Bad was just lying about what had been said.

      • Puddleglum 9.1.2

        despite plenty of countries having adopted similar abortion laws to ours which have seen the number of abortions spiral,

        I’m not sure whether you mean that abortion numbers have spiralled up or down. Worldwide, the number of abortions reduced from 45.6million to 43.8million from 1995 to 2008, with major reductions in the ‘developed’ countries (from 10 to 6 million) with a marginal absolute increase in the ‘developing’ countries (from 35.5 to 37.8 million).

        Abortion rates (as opposed to absolute numbers) also dropped, worldwide, between 1995 and 2003 and then stabilised (with a minor reduction) through to 2008.

        See the table in this link.

        An interesting quote from a footnote to the table reads:

        The Southern Africa subregion, dominated by South Africa, where abortion was legalized in 1997, has the lowest abortion rate of all African subregions, at 15 per 1,000 women in 2008. East Africa has the highest rate, at 38, followed by Middle Africa at 36, West Africa at 28 and North Africa at 18.

        • Puddleglum 9.1.2.1

          I should add that rates of abortion worldwide have decreased quite markedly (from 35 per 1000 women to 28 per 1000 women) between 1995 and 2008 which is why there has been a drop in absolute numbers of abortions despite population increases.

  10. Morrissey 10

    LIARS OF OUR TIME

    No. 41: Richard Prebble

    “What I do know is that John will consider everything. He’s an honorable man….”

    —Former ACT leader RICHARD “MAD DOG” PREBBLE, speaking on Q+A, Television One, Sunday 8 June 2014

    More liars….
    No. 40 Colin Craig: “I’m interested in raising the level of debate.”
    No. 39 George W. Bush: “We will be standing with the people of Afghanistan and Iraq until their hopes for freedom and liberty are fulfilled.”
    No. 38 Jeremy Hansen: “I read a great column by Paul Thomas in the Herald….”
    No. 37 Alan Seay: “You know, we respect the rights of people to protest….”
    No. 36 Paul Dykzeul: “No we won’t be changing the Listener; it’s got a terrific editor….”
    No. 35 Mark Jennings: “I think Paul’s a bright guy and he will be able to bring a discipline to his performance….”
    No. 34 Willie Jackson: “I thought we’d been sensitive with her yesterday….”
    No. 33 Supt. Bill Searle: “I think what’s happened here is the police officers have done their very best….”
    No. 32 Sonny-Bill Williams: “It’s good to get the win over Papua-New Guinea, a strong Papua-New Guinea side, aahhhh….”
    No. 31 John Palino: “Suggestions that I am somehow orchestrating some grand right-wing conspiracy to unseat Len after the election are so wrong…”
    No. 30 Alan Dershowitz: “I will give $10,000 to the PLO if you can find a historical fact in my book that you can prove to be false.”
    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    No. 28 John Kerry: “…we are especially sensitive, Chuck and I, to never again asking any member of Congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence.”
    
No. 27 Lyse Doucet: “I am there for those without a voice.”
    
No. 26 Sam Wallace: “So here we are—Otahuhu. It’s just a great place to be, really.”


    No. 25 Margaret Thatcher: “…no British government involvement of any kind…with Khmer Rouge…”


    No. 24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    


No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”
    


No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    


No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    


No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    


No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”


    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”



    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”



    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”



    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    


No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    
No. 13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    




No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    


No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”



    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    


No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    


No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”



    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”




    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”




    No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    




No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
    



No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    



No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”




    No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

  11. North 11

    Anyone else find this meme disgusting for unashamed bias, dishonesty, stupidity, as well as seminally indicative of the staggering entitlement of the Planet Key’s establishment ? –

    “Banks’ DEFEAT of transparency re connection with Dotcom PALES against Mana’s CELEBRATION of transparency re connection with Dotcom – Criminality Good……. Lawfulness Bad……..Criminality Good……..Lawfulness Bad.”

    What the hell have we come to ?

  12. bad12 12

    Mike Williams, a pretty good column in today’s Herald surrounding the non-vote, trouble is i hear the old violin playing but the only obvious solution hasn’t had its song written into the musical,

    Mike points out that pretty much 25% of eligible Kiwis don’t vote, so, 75% do, contrast that with Aussie voters, 93–94% of those who are told that they Must vote do,

    Yeah yeah, you all just hate being compelled to do anything, the violins tho are silent, i see nor hear any opposition to there being a compulsion by Law in this country to enroll to vote…

  13. lprent 13

    For those of you on iPads (and probably iPhones), I just fixed a bug I wasn’t aware of. The webapp portion of the mobile system wasn’t working on iOS7+

    Turned the webapp feature off.

    The effect is that you can now add it to your mobile desktops, click on it, and read the site.

    • weka 13.1

      Where is that?

      • lprent 13.1.1

        The bug only really showed up as far as I was aware on iOS7.

        If you had bookmarked the site on your desktop, it would display as a full screen webapp on iOS5/6. On iOS7 it would often fail to load.

        I turned the fullscreen webapp off and made it display as being in the browser just like it does on Android.

        I’d have seen it earlier, but I only use android myself these days and only had access to a old iphone and ipad.

        BTW: Lyn won’t let me touch her beloved iPad, iPhone, or Mac laptop (I now have a jealousy as well as a cost aversion about apple devices). I was rather surprised that at the list conference that David Cunliffe let me play with his iPad after he’d complained about the “server connection speed”. But it took me 30 minutes to figure out that the problem was the webapp and fix it at the server.

  14. Morrissey 14

    John Campbell was greatly amused by the destruction of an innocent man;
    But he’s more charitable toward an actual criminal

    Mediawatch, Radio NZ National, Sunday 8 June 2014

    sanc•ti•mo•ni•ous (ˌsæŋk təˈmoʊ ni əs) adj. showing or marked by false piety or righteousness; hypocritically virtuous.
    —Random House Kernerman Webster’s College Dictionary

    In 2005 the National Party’s dirty tricks wing came up with a ludicrously exaggerated and distorted story that Dunedin South MP and Environment Minister David Benson-Pope had abused students when he was a teacher. Nobody with any sense believed a word of it, but the National Party and its media tributaries (NewstalkZB, Television One, TV3) kept repeating the stories, and it became an ongoing accusation against Benson-Pope, even though it had no evidence to back it up. Forced to go along with this charade and investigate these vicious lies, the Speaker of the House concluded that there was no substance to any of the allegations.

    However, the extreme right wing press never gave up on the fantasy. The most deranged journalism-impersonator in the country, Ian Wishart, repeated the lies in 2006 in his crazy Investigate magazine. Working closely with the grubbiest functionaries in the National Party, like Judith Collins, Wishart conjured up a lurid scenario of an out-of-control tyrant stuffing tennis balls into students’ mouths and walking into the girls’ showers. Collins actually called Benson-Pope a “pervert”—under the cover of parliamentary privilege of course.

    The media failed to seriously investigate the claims. The media failed to put things in perspective. Instead, the media simply repeated the National Party’s allegations, wholesale. Like dogs after a stuck pig, the parliamentary press gallery took Judith Collins’ lead and ran snarling—or more accurately, snickering and guffawing—after their quarry. TV3’s king of compassion, John Campbell, was one of the leaders of the baying—snickering, guffawing—pack of hounds; Campbell Live gleefully ran jaunty, comical Benny Hill type music to enhance its pictures of scores of reporters laying in wait for the beleagured Benson-Pope. Campbell seemed greatly amused by the spectacle of a cabinet minister being harried and persecuted in parliament, humiliated and driven to tears by liars in an utterly spurious National Party campaign.

    FAST FORWARD EIGHT YEARS….

    This morning, on Mediawatch, Campbell was asked if he was pleased that his own investigations had played a major part in the conviction of the disgraced ACT M.P. John Banks. Now, remember that, in contrast to Benson-Pope, who, contrary to the claims of Judith Collins and her cronies, had done nothing wrong, Banks has just been found guilty of a grave crime. Surely someone who delighted in the persecution of an innocent man would be over the moon at the conviction of a real criminal.

    Not quite….

    Campbell assumed a tone of unctuous sincerity and intoned: “That’s a difficult one. When you start to revel in another’s misfortune, that reeks of vigilantism.”

    • Populuxe1 14.1

      Benson-Pope obviously believed he’d physically assaulted those students because he issued a public statement apologising for it even while claiming he’d done nothing wrong – and of course everyone is “innocent” in prison. Perhaps we can get you a job with the Catholic Church.

      • North 14.1.1

        Pops @ 14.1 – “he [Benson-Pope] issued a public statement apologising for it even while claiming he’d done nothing wrong……”.

        Have tried to find the apology Pops but can’t. Can you assist please ? Not that I doubt you but really would like to read the apology, in it’s entirety, myself. Followed that business quite closely at the time and recall nothing of an apology.

        • Populuxe1 14.1.1.1

          Ah yes, I see my mistake – he only offered apology for any upset his actions may have caused.
          http://tvnz.co.nz/content/668749
          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10370549

          • North 14.1.1.1.1

            Yes, mistake indeed. A pretty clumsy (if not deliberate) one at that. Leaves quite un-molested my long held sense of Pops as……..well you know, a visiting T123 T1234……

            There you are Pops……..somewhere in the last sentence there’s a word part of which you may be foolish enough, in your own name, to utilise. To finish the job on Benson-Pope commenced those years ago under parliamentary privilege by the loathsome Judith Collins.

            • Populuxe1 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Do you get a little warm glow of pride when you accuse possible abuse victims of lying? You seem quite gleeful about it. Do you apply this to rape victims too?

              • North

                What the fuck are you on about Txxx Txxxx Pops ?

                You got caught out in falseness @ 14.1.

                Your mealy-mouthed response @ at 14.1.1.1 was the only one available to you.

                Now @ 14.1.1.1.1.1 you’re straight back to Txxx Txxxx without missing a beat. Aggressive and haughty, aiming at differently positioned goalposts in a completely different code. Very telling in my book. A big din calculated to cover the discomfort of being caught out.

                God Pops……..you are so, so , so Judith. Take some gardening leave please.

                • felix

                  Oh fuck off Morrissey. Pop thought he remembered an apology and it turned out to be an unpology, which he noted and linked to.

                  What’s your fucking problem with that?

                  • North

                    Calling Morrissey – there’s the possibility that the heat nominally directed at you by Felix is actually meant for me.

                    OK. In response to Morrissey Pops misrepresented Benson-Pope, pejoratively. In doing so he chose to align with or at least minmise what Morrissey reminds was a disgusting campaign to destroy Benson-Pope. Then fantastically he falsely attributes to me gleeful harassment of abuse and rape victims. And the deriving by me of a warm glow of pride in the fiction about where I’m at.

                    That’s my “fucking problem” with that Felix.

                    From someone who repeatedly comes across as one whose sole claim to being of the Left resides in personal distaste for Mr Higher ShonKey Standards, well it just adds.

                    • felix

                      I thought I told you to fuck off.

                    • Populuxe1

                      Not entirely sure how being of the left means I’m supposed to toady to the left’s fuck ups as well. I am of the left, but all politicians and ideologies are worthy of cynicism

                  • North

                    Felix – your imperious “…thought I told you to fuck off ” shit.

                    No. You asked me a question. I answered it. Still you’re not happy. You need to watch what you ask for then don’t you Oh Master ?

                    • sockpuppet

                      Oh North what wit, what with you and Morrissey about all I need is Prof. Longhair to come back to make my reading pleasure complete.

                    • North

                      Pops old fella……that’s the point. You’re NEVER entirely……..well……..anything really. That’s a worthy cynicism I guess.

                      Oh except in unmistakeable Tory pejorative. And a certain biliousness about a certain German. You’re fairly ace at that. Why the fuck bother ? Ship out to Kiwiblog where you can disport in ‘moderate’ splendour and fake up your ‘erudition’ without challenge.

                    • felix

                      At least Pop isn’t using multiple pseudonyms to agree with himself like you are Morrissey you sad fool.

                      [lprent: I do keep an eye on that along with a number of other astroturfing techniques. Just had a glance at this one. Doesn’t seem likely to me. Nothing at a technical level pops out. The style is different. Maybe they just tend to agree? ]

                    • felix

                      Nah it’s all him. This isn’t the only place he does it either. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nz.general/IibP8D06NB4

                  • Populuxe1

                    Thanks felix

                    • North

                      Hahahaha ! Judiths…..everywhere – McIvor nee Wodham’ll be weighing in next.

                      Morrissey…….where the fuck are ya when the hordes are bearing down ?

    • Murray Olsen 14.2

      It would be quite hard to stuff a tennis ball into someone’s mouth. I remember being dubious about that at the time, and I’ve seen teachers do some very strange things.

      • North 14.2.1

        Felix……. such peremptory rejection of the congress of sentiment evidenced by the freemen North and Morrissey ???…….freemen hailing from North [North] and North [Cote Point], respectively.

        Oops…….hang on…….noooooo…….McIvor nee Woodham North [Grey Lynn] HAS weighed in.

        No seriously……..North [North] demands public acknowledgment of his sovereign North [North] being…….unburdened by the killing local body levies of North [Cote Point]. Just North* [Harbour Bridge] *of the.

        North [North] finds Morrissey North [Cote Point] thoroughly agreeable otherwise. Stay with the programme Felix – it’s a gradual thing.

        • felix 14.2.1.1

          Breen you’re projecting. You’re the one with the imaginary friends.

          • North 14.2.1.1.1

            Oh Please Flux……..ask me a question ……..I’ll answer it……..promise…….then you can ruminate about whether you told me to fuck off – up [North][Bridge][Point][Cote] ? Oh bugger ! I don’t know.

            Oh C’mon Flux…….this can be our own little triumviral fun. Just us three.

            Nah, sorry the member for North [Grey Lynn]. Go away. Three’s company four’s a crowd. Anyway, you’re on refreshments.

        • sockpuppet 14.2.1.2

          Ha excellent North almost a touch of Garcia Marquez about you this morning.

          • felix 14.2.1.2.1

            Seriously Morrissey, this is just embarrassing.

            • North 14.2.1.2.1.1

              More than embarrassing Felix @ 14.2.1.2.1 – bloody bizarre – of you.

              Let’s look at it. Calmly. Nicely. All starts with Morrissey, yes the real Morrissey, at 14 above. North, the real North, agrees with the real Morrissey (not unprecedented) and fatefully engages a spat with the real Pops. So far so good. Then at 4.27 pm the real Felix starts addressing the real North, the non-Morrissey, as “Morrissey”, telling him to fuck off. “Oh……what’s going on here ?” really muses the real North.

              The increasingly unreal Felix has detected a non-real North as a cover for the real Morrissey. At 9.18 pm lPrent advises as follows –

              ” [lprent: I do keep an eye on that along with a number of other astroturfing techniques. Just had a glance at this one. Doesn’t seem likely to me. Nothing at a technical level pops out. The style is different. Maybe they just tend to agree? ] “.

              The now really unreal Felix is really, really troubled – 10.04 pm – Felix – “Nah it’s all him. This isn’t the only place he does it either.” Even provides a link as proof.

              GeeZuz Felix. Let it go. We’re way past the softness of that old standard ” I’vvve gottt youuu……..un-derrr myy skinnn……. “. You realise of course that your bete noire Morrissey, that foxy old wordsmith, God……..he’ll be in stitches over this !

              And please Felix, have a thought for me the real North. Not the best of feelings to be summarily ‘nonned’ you know. I mean it’s been going on for 24 hours. Today I experienced none of the alacrity with which I normally receive friends Kathryn, Mike, and The Little Tory Shithead 11.00 am Mondays RNZ………I was hoping to get the real oil on that just been ‘nonned’ MP fulla.

  15. bad12 15

    Science, the last frontier, nah hang on that was a different movie and an entirely different frontier, a news item earlier in the week had me firing on all exclamation marks,?????, and going Ah Derrr i gotta learn how to drool,

    It appears that ”Scientists” have been studying mega-storms and the damage they do, and, the results of the study show that storms with male names do more damage than storms with female ones, i kid you not, and while no furry cuddly animals are said to have either died or been horribly abused during the study the Scientists were reputedly paid,

    This brings me to the conclusion of my own scientific study, the results having just been arrived at via a complicated algorithm,

    Of all the car accidents that occur befor noon on any given day, 10% of those ”at fault” in such car accidents said that they had eaten toast for breakfast,

    The conclusion then, lead by ”science” must be that eating toast for breakfast causes car crashes, undeniable you hear…

    • marty mars 15.1

      Sorry mate other way round at least with deaths not sure about damage but I’d imagine the same holds.

      “Analysis of more than six decades of death rates from US hurricanes shows that severe hurricanes with a more feminine name result in a greater death toll,”

      http://www.clickgreen.org.uk/research/trends/124727-hurricanes-with-female-names-kill-far-more-than-male-named-storms.html

      • bad12 15.1.1

        i stand corrected Marty, tah much, the obvious further conclusion to such ”science” would have to be to only name storms by the least damaging of the genders,

        Gives new meaning to the term, ”it aint rocket science” doesn’t it…

        • marty mars 15.1.1.1

          yep or maybe they should use non-gendered names – might reduce the death tolls but i suspect the numbers will rise and rise and rise. I don’t really get why they name them anyway – probably to make it easier for newsreaders or the insurance companies lol

          • bad12 15.1.1.1.1

            My view is that they should simply find a whole test tube full of other scientists, there is obviously something seriously amiss with the ones that put together that particular ”science”…

            • marty mars 15.1.1.1.1.1

              I took it that they were just reporting their findings and the findings are the weird bit perhaps showing how deep the patriarchal attitudes in society run.

              • bad12

                Lolz Marty i didn’t hear it as a gender issue,(obviously having got the ”culprits” the wrong way round),

                A little storm forms in the Bahamas,its name is either Jane or John,by the time it hits the US its severity can be judged by gender/name???

                i thought at the time that the people that call that science must be stark raving…

            • Populuxe1 15.1.1.1.1.2

              Good lord, you are obtuse. Quite clearly the implication is that people may unconsciously take storms with female names less seriously than storms with male names and consequently not make adequate precautions or choose to weather it out rather than evacuate.

              • mr obvious to the rescue lol

                • Populuxe1

                  Well your subtlty seemed to be having sweet fuck all affect. Also do bother to check things like time stamps before launching into bitch mode. Cheers.

              • bad12

                That really is sooooooo funny Pops, you should be on the TeeeVeeee, the fact that you along with the ”scientists” could believe in such ”accidental” coincidences as ”science” has my gut busting,

                Hell if that were the case don’t you think, simply name the fucking storms by the least damaging gender/name, the idea of which just has me laughing even harder…

                • Populuxe1

                  Sigh. While statistically correlation is no guarantee of causation, in many cases it warrants the application of scientific method. Ignoring data because it doesn’t fit with your personal prejudices is called “superstition” and “ignorance” and puts you in the same camp as creationists, flat earthers, geocentrists, and climate change deniers.

                  • bad12

                    Lolz Pops save that one for your teeevee show, now what am i meant to name the next storm i see, John or Jane…

                  • bad12

                    By the way Pops, should there be a further study done to say assess the value of a storms severity against ‘who’ named it,

                    Or do they appear with name tags or in the modern world bar codes, is there a difference in say a meteorologist naming the storm and an inmate of a psychiatric unit having done so,

                    The questions are just so many and the answers so few…

                    • Populuxe1

                      Given your entrenched misogyny, bad, were a hurricane with a female name to hit, rather than flee I expect you’d run toward it, flailing your arms and demanding it doesn’t have any abortions.

                    • bad12

                      My entrenched misogyny, Laugh out Loud, you poops is sooo funny,got any more along those lines,

                      Does it hurt tho this entrenched misogyny, probably a lot less than the pain felt by those flushed down the sink at the abortion clinic right pops, ah that’s right all those girls and boys that get the royal flush aint developed enough to be able to express pain so flushing them is all good right pops,

                      Ripping a baby girl from its mothers womb and (if mum don’t want to take her home)flushing her cold dead remains down the fucking sink has to be the ultimate in mysogyny doesn’t it pops,

                    • Populuxe1

                      Will no one think of the unicorns! There is no elective late term abortion in New Zealand so no little girls or boys are being ripped from their mothers’ wombs – that little blob of barely differentiated cells hasn’t got as far as gender yet. And don’t be silly, biological waste doesn’t go down the sink… it gets incinerated.

                      When you’re in a position to get pregnant, maybe you’ll be in a position to comment. Meanwhile I say let women make their own decisions and let termination be safe, legal and hopefully rare.

    • Jenny 15.2

      It appears that ”Scientists” have been studying mega-storms and the damage they do, and, the results of the study show that storms with male names do more damage than storms with female ones

      bad12

      How about this; To avoid complacency and save future lives and really inform humanity what we are in for – I would like to suggest that from now on gender neutral names that more accurately describe the sense of dread that future generations unlucky enough to be born on Eaarth will experience.

      How about Klimate Kchange Killer, KKK I, II, III IV etc?

      Future extreme weather warnings:

      This just in. World Warming Super Winder, WWW III the third and biggest twister to hit the North American Continent this tornado season is expected to make a direct hit on the town of Chicago within the next 36 hours, to increase your chances of survival please evacuate the city. But whatever you do don’t get caught in the traffic jam, you and your family will be killed.

      Or how about: We will now cross live to our weather channel where experts predict that the latest Terrorist New Typhoon, TNT IV is expected to explode a devastating weather bomb directly on central Manilla and surrounding areas, please make the necessary arrangements to spend your remaining hours with your loved ones, may God have mercy on your souls.

      Hurricane Hydrogen-bomb Hitler HHH II has left tens of thousands of dead in its wake and nothing standing after the Northern Territory city of Darwin was invaded by a 4 metre storm surge. (That last one is not quite gender neutral, but you get the idea)

      While we are on the nazi theme and before I get accused of being an alarmist Climate Change Goebbels and are banned by the climate change ignorers of The Standard, I’ll say it first. “Don’t tell us what to write” lprent

      • bad12 15.2.1

        No-ooooo Jenny, please No-oooo, it was intended for a bit of light hearted banter on a Sunday afternoon,

        Well to be completely honest it was a fishing line set, obviously the bait was stink and no-one bit,but that’s another story…

        Ps, please stop attempting commenting suicide, the sight of all the gore involved has me laughing like a loon which will simply destroy months of practice designed to have me not appearing to be so…

        • Jenny 15.2.1.1

          No-ooooo Jenny, please No-oooo, it was intended for a bit of light hearted banter on a Sunday afternoon

          bad12

          In that case you shouldn’t mind that I have used a bit of gallows humour to puncture your party balloon.

          • Jenny 15.2.1.1.1

            Ps, please stop attempting commenting suicide, the sight of all the gore involved has me laughing like a loon which will simply destroy months of practice designed to have me not appearing to be so…..

            bad12

            Bad?, bad12, are you OK? “so…” What has happened? Are you all right? You stopped in mid sentence, what’s wrong? Are you having a seizure?

            I am sorry for bringing you down. I feel terrible. It’s all my fault, please forgive me.

            Here, here is something to cheer you up

  16. freedom 16

    it was too good to ignore, so in case anyone finds a need for such an image

    here is Paul Goldsmith’s stand in

    View post on imgur.com

    i feel it is missing something, so suggestions welcome 🙂

  17. Chooky 17

    Dr Vanana Shiva – Ecofeminist on women and the Environment

  18. Chooky 18

    Thomas Berry, Earth scholar, cosmologist…. a great Ecofeminist who transcended the limitations of patriarchal religion and critiqued its attitudes towards women and the suppression of women. He equated the present environmental crisis and the trashing of the Earth with the subjugation of women, their spirituality and their rights by patriarchal religion.

    • bad12 18.1

      Chooky, the subjugation of spirituality, Mana, Manaakitanga, Ahi Kaa, Mauri, and, Wairua in my world would be encapsulated in a political philosophy which encourages the free use of abortion,

      All the above mentioned intertwined elements of life are offended by the act of abortion, and all those involved anywhere in the chain of events leading up to and including such abortions are in effect destroying in themselves and others the essential life forces be they physical, spiritual, or natural,

      i doubt whether any of the ”plastic” proponents of more abortion would have the faintest idea of what any of the above means….

      • marty mars 18.1.1

        I have an idea of what it means and i disagree wholeheartedly with your personal view. IMO you should just speak for yourself not others, especially Māori women.

        • Chooky 18.1.1.1

          +100 marty mars…and I also have Maori ancestry…many Maori women regard a degradation of their status came with patriarchal monotheism….primal polytheistic religions tended to accord equal status to males and females and there was a pantheon of Gods…both male and female ….Papatuanuku, the Earth Mother, for example is perhaps the most important God

          • bad12 18.1.1.1.1

            And of course Chooky your ”plasticity” allows you to see NO connection through Mana, Manaakitanga,Ahi Kaa,Mauri, and Wairua what-so-ever between the aborted child and Papatuanuku right, its all just words to you right Chooky…

        • bad12 18.1.1.2

          Marty, nice little knee jerk, notice the words after the word Wairua in the comment i publish above,

          ”In my world” suggestive of whom i am ”speaking for” do you not think,

          Point taken Marty and answered above, i would tho suggest you not engage in the language of the hypocrite which you certainly attempt with the final three words of your comment…

          • marty mars 18.1.1.2.1

            Yes I didn’t notice those words – sorry. My point about speaking for yourself stands though and i wasn’t speaking for Māori women, I was speaking for me – which is why i used the IMO.

            oh I just noticed that I used “personal view” in my initial knee jerk – good to see.

          • bad12 18.1.1.2.2

            Marty, you like everyone else is debating the personal, how bout you explain the ”idea” you have of Mana,Manaakitanga,Ahi Kaa,Mauri, and Wairua in relation to what i have said is their inescapable intertwining with all those concepts of Maori involved in abortion,(not necessarily confined to Maori either),

            In other words what do you believe these aspects of Maori are and in your opinion how does the act of abortion not effect them…

            • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.2.2.1

              Is there such a thing as the spirit or life force of the unborn child in traditional Maori folklore?

            • marty mars 18.1.1.2.2.2

              Thanks but no thanks – I generally like holding my cards close to my chest, where they are safe.

            • bad12 18.1.1.2.2.3

              Yes of course CV, even the earth mother Papatuanuku that ”plastic Chooky” introduced to the conversation, through Wairua and Mauri is connected to the unborn child and thus the unborn child is connected to all living things through Wairua, Mauri and Papatuanuku,

              The easy explanation of Wairua as ‘the spirit’ hardly encompasses anything in terms of the wider explanation of how Wairua connects us to our ancestors and gods,(some of whom were our ancestors)lands, seas, rivers, those dead and those yet to be born,

              Mauri is slightly easier to come to terms with by ”everything has a life force” ”it may not be alive or have ever lived in terms of the modern understanding of life but it has a life force”

              Manaakitanga, is best explained by ” everyone is welcome, there is always room for one more”,

              Now you might think Manaakitanga is only extended to the living, not so, manaakitanga is enabled by our Wairua and envelops in its embrace not only that Wairua which it is enabled by but because Wairua and Mauri cannot exist in separate universe must also include Mauri,

              Ahi Ka, usually simply described as the burning light or burning fire,(especially when applied to treaty issues), is the light handed down through time to us from our ancestors it is intrinsically interwoven in our wairua it is said to burn brightest in those who are born near and never go far from the Marae of their ancestors,

              All of these things, including Mana which i haven’t addressed, are intrinsically linked, and My Opinion, (the capitals are for an obvious reason),says that the act of abortion directly attacks and diminishes one or more of those aspects of Maori,

              An example, i have heard a grandmother exclaim about a child, ”that one is the spitting image of my grandfather” that is ahi ka in human form, and the kid will be watched by many especially if the great-great grandfather had great mana for signs of that mana in the child, when it is seen, then ahi ka has passed through wairua from the past into the now,

              Had the child tho been aborted, a part of ahi ka is snuffed out…

              • Colonial Viper

                thanks for sharing b12

                this kind of traditional knowledge and understandings are becoming more critical again as we find that the flash ‘modern’ ways of looking at things are deficient and sometimes quite injurious.

                • bad12

                  Lolz CV, you’re welcome, the above is the short version, i have yet to see a book written which fully encompasses the above in all its aspects,(including the ability of the unborn child, gods, or tipuna of the child to put upon those involved a makutu over having aborted the child), now that would be a good read…

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I re-read your comment, b12 and these stood out to me

                    “those yet to be born”…”welcome…there is always room for one more”

                  • You are offensive. Did you change to the Māori roll when Māori had the chance to?

                    • bad12

                      Pretty much 50% of Maori are not represented on the Maori Electoral roll choosing instead, as is their right, for whatever reason to enroll on the general roll, so if you are attempting to denigrate someone with your snide little query it is you who is being offensive…

                  • So bad you condemn Māori women to makutu – “to inflict physical and psychological harm and even death through spiritual powers” and think it would be a good read. You really are a big twisted bullshit artist.

                    http://www.maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&keywords=makutu+&search=

                    • bad12

                      Actaully Marty, your opinion of me is far higher than the one i hold of you, which sways between that you are a gutless,lying, wanker and/or a piece of shit,

                      i am neither unborn child,god, or tipuna, so i condemn no-one to anything, is that the best you can do you pathetic little ”i can pretend to be maori and no-one will notice”,

                      The fact that you had to reach into a book to find your latest piece of bullshit to explain Makutu tells me like your refusal to debate above that you know as much Maori as my little fingernail does,

                      ”i prefer to hold my cards close to my chest” drips of i am a lying fraud and if i say too much i will expose myself…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      bad12 doesn’t have the power to condemn anyone to makutu.

                      Ancient indigenous traditions often say that children who are taken before their due time may have that power; it is a common theme throughout East Asian and South East Asian folklore, Borneo, New Guinea, etc. But of course it is just superstition.

                    • The reference was to show you how it was done fuckwit.

                      As for your insinuations about my ethnicity lol was I getting too close to the mark there eh.

                      IMO those that try to be the big man around their ‘knowledge’ often end up showing their ignorance – case in point you.

                      I knew you would be too thick to understand why explaining concepts to you would be a waste of time but guess what numbnuts they are personal not for the public and not for a fake like you.

                    • bad12

                      PS Marty, i notice you do not negate the ability of a makutu to inflict such harm upon men and women through their involvement in abortion,

                      By advocating more, abortions that is, it wouldn’t be i condemning anyone to anything, as i previously explain, me being neither unborn child,god,or tipuna, it would in fact be you that is advocating more such harm from makutu which would naturally occur from a greater access to abortion that you advocate,

                      Hypocrite, fraud, liar, you encompass them well, wearing all as your badge of honor…

                    • bad12

                      Lolz CV, if i had any such ability to inflict such dire consequences on anyone imagine the trail of carnage round here,

                      Like i said above, makutu an intrinsic part of Maori and its relationship to what i commented above would make a good read,

                      Wonder what Mars had for dinner, its come out carping like its on another planet, i better wait for the Lolz, and Lolz again answer to see if it thinks i am an unborn child,god,or,tipuna…

                    • I don’t bother debating these things with those that don’t have a clue – that’s you bad. You are a unoriginal, thick, bullshit artist and guess what – we both know it.

                      btw – did you change to the Māori roll – lol

                    • bad12

                      An unkind person Marty would suggest your refusal to debate such things, except for the ability to denounce other’s explanation of concepts as wrong and nothing else, the word wrong,not being a debate, is singularly down to the fact that you are a fraudulent airhead,

                      Nope, like my father befor me who was always on the general roll i also choose, as is my right along with the other 50% of Maori who do so, to vote on that general role,(i only imparted this information to you Mars because i want a laugh at the following effete insult your airhead will formulate and toss my way)…

                    • Well bad you are entitled to your opinion of me and of anything else, and I’m okay with that believe it or not.

                      I had quiche for dinner by the way but i’m sure that had nothing to do with the rage i felt at you.

                      Thank you for answering my question, even though I know it was rude – you are a bigger man than me for sure.

                    • bad12

                      Rage Marty,???, but isn’t that why you started in with the insults/abuse, after all in debates, specially in such a sensitive moot as the one being discussed, isn’t ”the tactic” to hurl such unpleasant language about fully expecting a flame to ignite in the hope that the Moderator, who in your zeal you believe will want to shut down the debate as much as the Pro side seem to, will step in and deliver me a spanking,???,

                      My opinion, would suggest that way befor ”Rage” a thinking person proposing to address a moot from any perspective has gained the resources to address that moot from all angles without exhibiting rage,

                      Right now you are probably thinking hypocrite at me, but, a considered view of our exchanges today, along with a modicum of honesty, would have you well able to pin-point where debate became rage, insult’ and even abuse,

                      The exchange between myself and weka is a case in point, weka posed a considered question to me, i replied with what i considered to be a considered but abbreviated reply,(to propose fully my view of abortion would take pages and hours),

                      Weka then gave a reply containing somewhat of an insult, to which i replied in kind,

                      my point being, that i am happy to debate anything on any level anyone chooses to debate from and NO i am far from an innocent when it comes to nasty shit,

                      Have a good night…

                    • Well the rage was my stuff. My trigger was that I felt incensed that a group of people trying to do their best in the world was saddled with being cursed. That was when I lost it and started delivering insults and abuse and that was my stuff, my issues. From there it just became tit for tat and I accept responsibility for the nastiness I fueled. It wasn’t a debating tactic, I was absolutely furious and didn’t control myself at all. The comment that got me going became the release point for my anger at a number of things including things not related to you or even the topic and I allowed it to flow. That was a mistake and I’m sorry that i did that and I’m sorry to you for doing that.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz Marty Mars, apologies are not necessary and if it was a needed release of anger, we all have them, then it was a pleasure to be of some use on a quiet Sunday,

                      As i point out, myself am far from being an innocent babe in the woods, and, some commenters as the thread of the conversation shows, usually ones where there is a ”history” get treated at the least with disdain as a matter of course,

                      Brought up on the old ”sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you” i quite happily wallow as deeply in the mud as anyone’s pond of muck turns out to be,and believe me, there is nothing anyone here can label me with that i havn’t in this life lived less than ordinary been called befor and emotionally dealt with,

                      Aw no its five past, my fine cloths have turned to rags and gumboots to a glass slipper,(i dont dare look outside to check on the waka),

                      Good night…

                • weka

                  “this kind of traditional knowledge and understandings are becoming more critical again as we find that the flash ‘modern’ ways of looking at things are deficient and sometimes quite injurious.”

                  I agree. Abortion is practiced in pretty much every indigenous culture I have come across, including by Māori (I think you will be hard pressed to find any culture that doesn’t have knowledge of how to do abortions). If you talk with Māori women, you will get a range of beliefs about how abortion fits into their world view, just like with other cultures.

              • Tracey

                is there such a thing as oral history acknowledging the number of women dying in or before childbirth bad12

                • bad12

                  Yeah right Tracey, kill’em all right, there might be a chance of death through child birth,

                  The Law already caters for mothers who have an identified problem that could endanger the mother’s life,

                  If anyone not so identified doesn’t want to chance such a risk as you chirrup Tracey, that hasn’t been previously identified they can always engage in using that unheard of thing called contraception, or if forgetful, the morning after pill,

                  There’s also something that’s well known in my hood that definitely avoids any such complications, its called closing your fucking legs, also known as abstinence…

                  • Tracey

                    and yet my comment was related to the ancient and spiritual traditions you and cv were extolling, so i take it you have no knowledge of the issues i asked about given your knee jerked you straight to your pet meme

                    • bad12

                      Such an oral history Tracey would as these things are imparted not be imparted to me, i have a set of balls ”other stuff” in families that choose to pass on such knowledge is imparted to us with the ”other stuff’…

                  • weka

                    Bad, out of curiousity, are you suggesting that the law be rewritten to exclude Māori women from access to abortions, or are you suggesting that the Māori world view you are sharing here should be the basis of law for all women in NZ?

                    • bad12

                      Neither weka, i have suggested nothing surrounding the current Law or proposals other than that it should not be made easier to gat an abortion than it is now,

                      If i were to propose anything it would be compulsory education about the use of contraceptives and the dangers of not using them,

                      i would then propose that contraceptives, including the morning after pill be free and made freely available in places other than chemists or doctors,(along with all doctors visits concerning contraception being free if they are not already),

                      i would in no way make abortions any more restrictive than they are now,(even tho the High Court and Appeal Court ruled that in the case of the Wellington DHB they were being provided outside the Law)

                      What i would do after the provision of all the free advice, free contraceptives including the morning after pill, and free abortions(for which i would demand that the DHB provide a free taxi chit to and from issued by the certifying doctor)would be devise a spanking for those who had availed themselves of such where no actual physical threat to life existed,

                      The extent of such a spanking would be between those put befor a relevant tribunal and their representatives with Legislative guidelines and an offence of a male having unprotected sex would also need be Legislated where the male appeared at the same tribunal the only proof need by such tribunal being that of the termination…

                    • bad12

                      PS, i would also look at the requirement for two doctors,consultants, whatever to be needed for the referral to the ‘clinic’, IF a woman has been with the same personal doctor for more than a couple of years then i would suggest that that Doctor knows all that is needed to be known…

                    • weka

                      Thanks bad, appreciated, that’s much clearer.

                      I think your relationship with all the things you are talking about further above is sometimes pretty ugly. Like marty, I wouldn’t choose to talk about the deeper aspects of what humans are in this context. Your inclination to use the state to coerce me with regards to my body is scarey.

                    • bad12

                      Righto weka, and your irresponsible attitude to the use of your body which involves the killing of another human being is sickening to me,

                      The State uses Legislation to coerce you to do or not do all sorts of things with your body and there are far more ”choices” available to all Men and Women befor the ”choice” of taking a life, no matter how viable you consider that life to be…

                    • weka

                      But I’m not irresponsible. Your insistence to label all women with an unwanted pregnancy as irresponsible and needing punishment is one of the disturbing things about your views on abortion.

                    • bad12

                      Righto weka, scratch irresponsible, the use of your body which involves the killing of another human being you claim is your right sickens me,

                      The State uses Legislation to coerce you to do and not do all sorts of things with your body etc…

                    • weka

                      Can you give some examples of how the state intervenes with my body?

      • Populuxe1 18.1.2

        cough cough
        Hunton RB. “Maori abortion practices in pre and early European New Zealand”. N Z
        Medical Journal
        . 1977 Dec 28;86(602):567-70.
        cough

        If the rather hit and miss traditional abortion practices didn’t work, infanticide was quite popular.

        • Chooky 18.1.2.1

          …also it was known for babies to be eaten on occasion, so i have read , by a hungry Chief ….or by a conquesting tribe !

          • marty mars 18.1.2.1.1

            apparently your queen still eats them crooky

          • Populuxe1 18.1.2.1.2

            Not really my point, Chooky – let’s not dredge that stuff up. I just wanted to point out that within the sphere of traditional Maoritanga and tikanga, abortion wasn’t some alien tapu concept. They were probably more practical about it – the news reports of what they found in Tuam, Ireland show what happen when you pretend there isn’t a genuine need.

        • marty mars 18.1.2.2

          I rather be disagreed with by bad that have you agree with me pops – you display your bigotry like soiled undies worn over your pants.

          • Populuxe1 18.1.2.2.1

            Not sure about how supporting the spirit of the Treaty, the advancement of Te Reo, the rights of non-Iwi affiliated urban Maori, wanting something done to tackle the horrific wealth disparity that has such disastrous consequences for the health and well-being of Maori and Pasifika and so forth suddenly becomes bigotry just because one occasionally questions ethno-nationalist bullshit that has direct implications for the country one is a born citizen oft.
            But hey, pokokohua sweetie.

          • bad12 18.1.2.2.2

            i chose not to go near it Marty, same with Chooky’s little chirrup, really fucking ”plastic”, pretty tapu for now,

            Exposed to the light of day tho, such comments might become noa, so i will have a look later when the heat,obviously intended, in them is no longer of concern…

        • Chooky 18.1.2.3

          +100 Pop…they were not stupid!

          • Populuxe1 18.1.2.3.1

            No, they were not. Not at all. Which is probably more than can be said of some of their descendants it would appear.

            • Chooky 18.1.2.3.1.1

              yes agree….some of them have been turned quite “plastic” and full of hubris and faux mana…the ancestors would turn in their graves…honesty is mana

        • Tracey 18.1.2.4

          fascinating. Herbal mixtures/concoctions taken orally appear in most cultures.

          Infanticide as well as choosing the infants life over the womans at the time of birth

          • Populuxe1 18.1.2.4.1

            Indeed, such was the market in Roman times for the abortificant Sylphium that it became extinct. We don’t even know what it was exactly, except that from descriptions and picture on coins, it was probably related to fennel. And of course we have RU-486 now – not so very different.

        • bad12 18.1.2.5

          The recorded evidence for the practice of induced abortion in the 19th century Maori is evaluated–Gluckman LK.

          Is a PDF if you care to Google and download it, from the abstract we learn:

          “‘Abortcide as opposed to feticide in late pregnancy was very rare, Abortcide was not practiced for fear of retributive makutu”

          Gluckman appears to use a very ”strange” form of English to say the least, depending which part of the country these people were conducting their anthropology i would suggest might have different conclusions drawn,(ie in some parts of the country the eating of human flesh occurred, in other parts human flesh was never eaten),

          My grain of salt surrounding such anthropology is the same one as surrounds what history teachers in the same 1970’s were trying to teach us as Gospel,”Captain Cook discovered new Zealand”, and, look out if you dared wave an arm around encapsulating the other inmates of the classroom and ask ”where were these people while this discovery was occurring”…

          • Populuxe1 18.1.2.5.1

            Ah, I see – they aborted through induced labour in the latter part of the pregnancy. Well that’s much nicer. I can see the error of my ways now.

            • bad12 18.1.2.5.1.1

              Who exactly is ”they” Populuxe, pre-European Maori were not a ”they”, pre-European Maori were a series of independent tribal nations with various interconnections,

              Someone then talking out of their Tiro would ascribe the act of abortion to this ”they” you speak of having no notion of the offensive nature of such remarks as some of this ”they” you speak of might well have practiced the act of invasive abortion and some would have ”boiled your head” at the very suggestion that they would dare touch that what was so Tapu,

              Try digging deeper Populuxe and you will find the true nature of those you so conveniently consign to your ”they” and the differing attitudes ”they” had to that act of abortion…

  19. tricledrown 19

    Morrissey the girl who was hit by Benson Pope is a close friend of my daughter.
    While corporal punishment in schools was on the way out Benson Popes discipline of this girl was over the top

  20. Marius 20

    Yes, that veneration only applies to the ones able to continue the killing. The ones that return basket cases, amputees and forgotten are the 40%. I have witnessed those sign up processes outside the likes of Home Depot- the shiny suited and well fed sargeant promising health care to the unemployed cannon fodder kids is a sight to behold.

    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      Plus why not falsify the kids credentials, age etc if you need to make your recruitment quota for the month.

  21. Penny Bright 21

    FYI

    An ‘Open Letter’ from Graham McCready to John Banks (sent 7 June 2014):

    TO John Banks Copy the Rest of New Zealand

    Dear John,

    I can understand the situation you find yourself in having been in the same situation myself.

    From this personal experience I can tell you that you are at serious risk of receiving a jail term of about 18-months.

    His Honour has given you the opportunity to qualify for Home Detention.
    The term is likely to be about six months.
    He is NOT going to consider a discharge without conviction.
    That is a delusional fantasy.
    If David Jones QC continues to suggest the possibility my advice is to sack him and file a complaint with the Law Society on the basis of gross incompetence.

    See my attached missive on the process.
    If you get home detention your overseas travel will suffer minimal disruption.
    Any jail term of one year or more and the Inter Islander Ferry may be about your limit.

    How then do you ensure you stay out of jail?

    Accept responsibility for your actions.

    Immediately as part of acceptance resign from Parliament.

    Do not dance on the head of a pin before the Probation Officer on the difference between “Found Guilty of an Indictable Criminal Offence” and “A Conviction being entered”.

    On Monday YOU contact the Probation Service.
    Do not let your clown of a lawyer do it or wait for a Probation Officer to phone you.

    COOPERATE with them. BE VERY HUMBLE

    Tell them you have royally screwed up and that you are unconditionally guilty.

    Do a press conference and make an unreserved apology to the People of New Zealand for your conduct.
    Back that up by a huge donation to low decile schools.
    Do not say which ones or how much.
    That will not get you off but it will be spiritually uplifting

    Tell them you will not be appealing the verdict.

    DO NOT ATTACK OTHER PERSONS INVOLVED IN THE CASE.

    Assure the Probation Officer that you will comply with all instructions and conditions of Home Detention no matter how tedious. And they will be tedious.

    Treat the Probation Officer with respect.
    Do not make racial or serious remarks.
    You may find your Probation Officer is a young female Criminology Grad less than half you age.

    The Probation Service will need to approve your apartment for Home Detention.
    From my experience it is probably not suitable.
    The reason is that a Probation Officer or Security Guard cannot walk up to the front door 24-hours a day because of the building security.
    Tomorrow rent a VERY MODEST house with walk up to the front door.
    Talk to the Probation Service about this.

    Finally welcome to the Human Race.
    We are not bad people who will become good, just human beings who do good and bad things at various times of our lives.

    This too will pass.

    Wishing you all the health, happiness and success I enjoy for myself one day at a time.

    Kindest Regards

    Graham McCready

    • bad12 21.1

      Or better still Herr Banks do what i have done every time when faced with the same situation and simply say,”yeah i am as guilty as sin, remorse what the fuck are you on about,do your worst as far as the sentence goes, i have never been a beggar”…

    • North 21.2

      Sage and kindly advice there Graham McCready. There’s nothing that shits a probie more than a lack of convincingly expressed remorse and the shifting of blame. Invariably it ends up in the probie’s court report and judges just hate it.

      Now, Mr Banks……how do you take dead rat ? Hot, cold, with ketchup ?

  22. Marius 22

    lol @ dershowitz. yeah i remember that. god, that sad tosser must hate having lived a life in the shadow of Chomsky and Finklestein.

    • swordfish 22.1

      Yeah, but despite being fully exposed as a vicious, immoral lying SOAB, ‘Dersh’ is the one who continues to roll in the money and power.

      Meanwhile, courageous academics like Finkelstein have their whole career destroyed (with, of course, the Dershbag playing a leading role in that destruction).

      Aint it always the way.

  23. joe90 23

    Little wonder Narendra Modi’s toilets first, temples later was a vote catcher.

    .

    Hindus are, on average, richer and more educated than Muslims. But oddly, the child mortality rate for Hindus is much higher. All observable factors say Hindus should fare better, but they don’t. Economists refer to this as the Muslim mortality puzzle.

    In a new study, researchers believe that they may have found a solution to the puzzle. And, surprisingly, the solution lies in a single factor – open defecation.

    http://scroll.in/article/665908/A-new-explanation-for-the-mysterious-child-mortality-puzzle-among-Muslims:-open-defecation

  24. TheContrarian 24

    Well done to The Standard – you made number 4 on the list (well specifically to Geoff for the posting and Mike the Savage One for the ‘because he is a Virgo reasoning).

    Pity they didn’t link to the article in question.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10132508/Whats-the-real-deal-on-the-theories

  25. Marius 25

    ‘Israel’s housing ministry has announced new plans for almost 1,500 new settlement housing units in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, described as a “fitting Zionist response” to the new Palestinian unity government, backed by the Islamic militant group Hamas’. Truly beyond chutzpah.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      Between this and the use of attack jets on civilians in Ukraine, its amazing the very selective inattention displayed by the western power elite.

      By the way, i note that a 6 man Ukranian Antanov surveillance plane was downed by eastern anti-Kiev forces today. It could turn into a proper civil war/proxy war over there soon.

  26. Draco T Bastard 26

    This Is What Happens When A Kid Leaves Traditional Education

    US based so won’t fully apply to NZ.

    • ianmac 26.1

      Wow Draco! Sir Ken Robinson (lower down the link) nails the need for allowing and encouraging creativity in education. Imagine nailing Steven Joyce to the floor and making him watch Ken for 20minutes. Joyce is demanding training for a better workforce. University dedicated to courses to produce graduates in maths science engineering. Forget the Arts National Standards to narrow the curriculum. Etc. Just like the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Workers trained just for the workforce.
      Home schooling done well or perhaps a revolution in schools to foster creativity, flexible thinking as well as competence in the 3 Rs. might work.

      • Draco T Bastard 26.1.1

        Joyce is demanding training for a better workforce. University dedicated to courses to produce graduates in maths science engineering.

        You always get that from the right-wing which is truly amazing considering that they’re the ones that go on the loudest about everyone being different one size doesn’t fit all. Then, as soon as they in power, we get the Three RRRs and National Standards forcing everyone into the same mold.

        a revolution in schools to foster creativity, flexible thinking as well as competence in the 3 Rs.

        Which, I believe, was actually happening in NZ schools – until National got in power and stomped all over it with their ideology.

        • meconism 26.1.1.1

          Yeah Joyce and more scientists and engineers, what does he need them for he’s got fuckin thousands of them coming out his arse telling him for thirty years the planet is heating up and this is what we should do, and he ignores them all. What tyhe fuck does he need more of them for?

          • JanM 26.1.1.1.1

            He doesn’t – it’s a dumbing-down process – the rich don’t want the poor to be clever

    • Lanthanide 26.2

      That’s what happens when a bright, capable, motivated and supported child leaves traditional education.

      To suggest (as he does) that his approach could be rolled out as a ‘standard’ approach doesn’t mesh with the reality of the average kid.

      • Draco T Bastard 26.2.1

        Yep, still something worth pondering as far as our education system goes.

        Oh, and I’m sure that motivation increases with support. If children aren’t supported they see no reason to do anything.

  27. bad12 27

    Bye John you fff-ing criminal, Banks resigns–RadioNZ National news….

  28. Harry Holland 28

    What happened to Mike Smith’s “Communication Upgrade Needed” opinion post – there one minute and gone 20 minutes later…

    The gist was that DC’s recent messaging has been very negative about life in NZ.

    I watched as negative messaging sank the Left in 2011. Unless people are seriously struggling they like to think of themselves as doing well, or about to start doing well. Doing well, being fair on everyone, and helping those who need help.

    [lprent: Looks like Mike did a premature release? He is the only person on the edit list. ]

  29. A cunning plan, but before that I just want to say I support Kim Dotcom in his bid to become a citizen of New Zealand, and less a back down, more slow realisation perhaps, I don’t know, but I do regret being so dismissive and judgemental, and wish him well in his bid to stay in this lovely country.

    The plan.

    With Banks gone on Monday, why not have the government gone next sitting day? Especially if it could happen if the right people spoke to each other.

    Dear Mr Flavell. for the good of your party and the good of your people, telephone Honi and tell him you want to join his alliance with the internet party and if he says yes, good idea, happy to be working with you again, ask him to telephone Russel and Metiria, because they are friends and will work with you together and get more out of labour post snap election which when united we will win.

    Dear Mr Harawira, for the good of your people and for the good of us all, if Te Ururoa calls and ask if he can join your allainace with the internet party, says yes, good idea, happy to be working with you again, then telephone Russel and Metiria, because they are friends and will work with you together and get more out of labour post snap election, which when united we will win.

    • The Al1en 29.1

      Dear Metiria and Russel, for the good of your party and for the good of us all, if Honi phones and says he has a plan to bring down the government and a way to work together to get more out of labour post snap election, which when united we will win, tell him you’re groovy with it and wish each other well for the election which now united, we will win.
      After you’ve finished talking with Honi, phone David Cunliffe and tell him you’ve decided to go hard out for his voter base because you want to form a Green/IMP/Labour government after the snap vote next sitting day. Tell him to get his best people as high up as he can just so they survive the cull, and say we’ll give you a call a couple of days post election.

      Dear David, If Russel and Metiria call and say they’re going to go all out to be the biggest party on the left in New Zealand, and they have the support of the new alliance to get things done, and that they will give you a call a couple of days after the next election, because united we will win, say Okay, I’ll wait for your call, then phone you’re closest allies, brace for the revolution, and get to work on getting the party list stacked with your best.

      • Colonial Viper 29.1.1

        😯

        Is your middle name Rommel…or Guderian…or maybe Zhukov

        edit – your strategy perfectly capitalises on use of the IMP positioning – the one risk being that the nation will be pissed off with IMP for orchestrating this – the upside being that IMP will demonstrate to the electorate that it is VFS (very fucking serious) and that it knows about assymetric action…

        • The Al1en 29.1.1.1

          Oh no, I doubt my parents were so illuminated to have much knowledge of those names other than the first, so I’d much more likely, by class, been a Winston, Monty or Douglas as in Bader. I’m pleased to inform they were not swayed by the abundance of 1950’s 1960’s war films or swinging 60’s summer of love. Also pleased to inform that despite my Chelsea supporting dad’s like for football and Dirty Harry films, my middle name isn’t Clint, Bobby as in Moore or Chopper as in Harris, and my mum’s like for Michael Caine and the stones, it’s not Alfie or Keith either.

          Just a late night Sunday ‘what if?’

          • The Al1en 29.1.1.1.1

            And just for fun, in an if I won lotto or a genie popped up when I rubbed my long empty until Tuesday coffee jar for comfort, I’d make MT prime minister with HH as deputy, with Norman and Cunliffe looking after the treasury.

            Then my circuits flashed over and instead of a what if, it faded and I was left with an if only instead in a fuzzy afterglow of knowing united we will win.

            • Colonial Viper 29.1.1.1.1.1

              The key (lol) is to destabilise the Key government in the House but keep it supported just enough to limp on the next 14 weeks to election day. You don’t wish to cause an electoral backlash by actually forcing a snap election so close to the General Election so you keep the Key government on life support over the next 3 months.

  30. I fear we both want the same revolution, but it will come as no surprise to read I like mine to smell of drama with more than a hint of immediacy. 🙂

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    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago