Open Mike 08/10/2017

119 comments on “Open Mike 08/10/2017 ”

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1. Bill Drees 1

   8 October 2017 at 7:32 am

   I’ve a $20 bet since March that Trump will be out of the Whitehouse by Christmas.
   I read that Muller is now briefing senior officials (unimplicated ones).
   Is this a sign that my $20 is safe?
   • Ad 1.1

     8 October 2017 at 7:50 am

     Is there Book on it?
   • Blackcap 1.2

     8 October 2017 at 8:17 am

     I think your bet is lost. Trump is currently the favourite candidate to win the presidency in 2020. (that said he is the incumbent and we do not know who will be running against him from the Democratic side. He is though a long shot to be out of office by the end of the year. http://www.betfair.com
   • Andre 1.3

     8 October 2017 at 2:06 pm

     It was more than nine months from the Saturday Night Massacre to Nixon’s resignation – and we haven’t yet had an equivalent to it in terms of open blatant misconduct for the express purpose of saving his own skin. Firing Comey didn’t come close. These things move slowly. Even if Mueller already has the evidence to put the Chump away for the rest of his life, Christmas is way too soon for anything to have happened.
2. Carolyn_nth 2

   8 October 2017 at 7:34 am

   The NZ First and Green Party caucuses are divided markedly by gender. NZF’s 9 MPs includes 2 women and the GP 8 MPs include 2 men;

   NZF MPs:

   1 Rt Hon Winston Peters
   2 Ron Mark
   3 Tracey Martin
   4 Fletcher Tabuteau
   5 Darroch Ball
   6 Clayton Mitchell
   7 Mark Patterson
   8 Shane Jones
   9 Jenny Marcroft

   GP MPs:

   James Shaw (Wellington Central)
   ​Marama Davidson (Tamaki Makaurau)
   Julie Anne Genter (Mt Albert)
   ​Eugenie Sage (Port Hills)
   Gareth Hughes (East Coast)
   Jan Logie (Mana)
   Chlöe Swarbrick (Maungakiekie)
   Golriz Ghahraman (Te Atatu)

   Half the GP caucus are based in Auckland. The NZF caucus tends to have more links with regions outside Auckland.

   NZF could negotiate a coalition with either Nats or Labour, but they could also opt to sit on the cross benches, abstain from confidence and supply votes, and allow the Nats to run a minority government.
   • Cinny 2.1

     8 October 2017 at 9:05 am

     Interesting, there is balance to be found there 😀
   • Peroxide Blonde 2.2

     8 October 2017 at 12:36 pm

     Hold it Sister: the GP did not win any electoral seats. The way you displayed the two lists is misleading. You seem to suggest that all the NZ F are list and the GP are electoral.
     Please correct it.
     • Carolyn_nth 2.2.1

       8 October 2017 at 6:37 pm

       Say what? the only differences is that the GP list numbers did not copy. They are at the link. But I would need to add each number individually. Is that really necessary?

       The NZF numbers copied with the names from a straight copy and paste. Not my fault, and otherwise there is no indication I’m saying the GP MPs are electorate MPs.
     • weka 2.2.2

       8 October 2017 at 9:16 pm

       I would have thought the point of showing the GP locations/electorates was because of the comment about the number of Ak MPs.
   • mikesh 2.3

     8 October 2017 at 5:36 pm

     Would the governor General accept a government that could not show that it had 51% support in the house?
3. AB 3

   8 October 2017 at 7:48 am

   My pick is that English would prefer another election to leading a minority government that could be out-voted on anything other than confidence and supply.
   The Nats’ born to rule sense of entitlement is too strong to tolerate it. National’s coffers are full and they could fight another, probably even nastier, election with MMP itself in the crosshairs.
   • tc 3.1

     8 October 2017 at 8:15 am

     National continue to show a disdain for democracy, they’ve not diversified the economy, they’ve gutted crucial areas like health, education and housing whilst selling out nz.

     So personally I’d like to see them wear this one with Peters sniping away making them own the damage they’ve caused.

     Bill can manage that rockstar economy they’ve been blathering on about so there’s a challenge for the DP acolytes.
     • rhinocrates 3.1.1

       8 October 2017 at 1:54 pm

       Oh yeah, the Rock Star Economy:

       “Sell your soul to the company. They’re all waiting there to sell plastic wares…”
   • Hanswurst 3.2

     8 October 2017 at 10:28 am

     It’s not in their hands, though. If Mr. English can’t accept a deal with NZ First (assuming he is even in a position to make one), then NZ First has other options before a new election is called, and English’s most likely immediate destination is opposition.
   • CLEANGREEN 3.3

     8 October 2017 at 1:17 pm

     Ab 100%

     I see it this way to.

     As we know National is under corporate control (English accompanied Key to the 2011/12 Bilderberg Group annual meeting) and since then has to deliver what they need to complete their mission out, in total control as you say correctly.

     “The Nats’ born to rule sense of entitlement is too strong to tolerate it. National’s coffers are full and they could fight another, probably even nastier, election with MMP itself in the crosshairs”
     • CoroDale 3.3.1

       8 October 2017 at 1:45 pm

       Interesting. But expecting Lab/NZF govt with Gs giving cross-bench support. Re-election would potentially strengthen nzf n G hands, as social electioneering would stand solid. Gnats must fold. Transition is safe and on-track.
4. Descendant Of Sssmith 4

   8 October 2017 at 8:25 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97629437/exclusive-brethren-supreme-leader-bruce-hales-in-nz-to-curb-wicked-behaviour

   No doubt co-incidental that one of the Nats backers is having a big-wig conference now as well.

   :A white-shirted church member at the gate, Eddy Suckling, said it was “just a church conference”.

   “There are a few from around the regions that have come in, just locals,” he said.

   Suckling was unable to say how many people were inside, but cars were forced to park on the grass surrounding the 200-plus car park alongside the hall.

   At least 15 white buses were lined up, as well as more than 20 white vans. Shiny white SUVs and utes filled the adjacent streets.”
   • Cinny 4.1

     8 October 2017 at 9:23 am

     I wonder what Don Brash is up to this weekend
     • Peroxide Blonde 4.1.1

       8 October 2017 at 12:39 pm

       Brash was on Radio live an hour ago with some other right wing nutters.
       • Cinny 4.1.1.1

         8 October 2017 at 5:37 pm

         surely not… lmao 😀
5. Sans Cle 5

   8 October 2017 at 8:32 am

   I’m learning all the time, and found this article about difference between a Coalition government and Confidence & Supply one, very informative. However, are there rules within a NZ context which defines what legislation other than budget expenditure that gets passed with C&S?
6. Andre 6

   8 October 2017 at 8:57 am

   Anyone want to make the argument that Bitcoin is actually a good and useful thing?

   To me, it looks like the ultimate example of a thing that only has value because a bunch of people delude themselves it has value.

   Bitcoin is not like fiat money, which in many ways is backed by the issuing state’s powers of compulsion.

   Even gold and diamonds, while they are way overvalued because people are attracted by shiny things, actually have particular properties that make them useful.

   But it looks to me like a bitcoin is nothing more than a certificate of gratuitously wasted computing time and electricity. See this article to illustrate how much goes into this waste.

   https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/why-the-biggest-bitcoin-mines-are-in-china
   • Ad 6.1

     8 October 2017 at 10:06 am

     Works if you are a criminal seeking to evade tax, or evade all state scrutiny.

     The Chinese government is on to them.
   • gsays 6.2

     8 October 2017 at 11:10 am

     “To me, it looks like the ultimate example of a thing that only has value because a bunch of people delude themselves it has value”

     Sounds like it has that in common with the share market to me.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.3

     8 October 2017 at 11:39 am

     Bitcoin is not like fiat money, which in many ways is backed by the issuing state’s powers of compulsion.

     And the issuing state’s economy.

     BitCoin is a perfect example of why bank money was actually made illegal. What happens, and we know this from history, is that multiple companies start making their own currency that a) isn’t universally accepted and b) creates far too much money for the economy.

     Of course, that latter part is happening now as the private banks create huge amounts of money pushing up house prices.
7. marty mars 7

   8 October 2017 at 9:11 am

   Worth a read

   https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/veronica-tawhai-building-hope-that-there-can-be-change

   Awesome wahine toa
   • RedLogix 7.1

     8 October 2017 at 2:13 pm

     I once knew her parents; awesome people and I’m chuffed to read of their daughter. Thanks marty.
   • DRUM 7.2

     8 October 2017 at 4:26 pm

     Thank’s Marty. That’s a web site I’ll now visit regularly.
   • veutoviper 7.3

     8 October 2017 at 4:40 pm

     Thanks so much for that link. Excellent read and site, now bookmarked etc for the future.
8. North 8

   8 October 2017 at 9:24 am

   Slow clap for du Plessis-Allan and her unilluminating ‘me me me’ Winston Peters nonsense in the Herald this morning. Served up in vintage, passive-aggressive du Plessis-Allan, sly-smile style.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11930019

   From the top – “At Auckland airport this week, on my way down to Wellington, ‘ I ‘ bumped into a man from the capital.” Oh really ? Who cares how you get to work dear ?

   Story is…….Winston will sit on the cross benches. Without even confidence and supply seemingly. Reasoning being that since first Maori PM’s not on……..then ‘Pfft’ to the flash job, the baubles, the government limos. Like no one else ever used one. I daresay du Plessis-Allan herself has greased her way into a few of those in her time.

   You see Winston’s into “legacy”. But because National actually won this MMP election “fair and square” (at least in her FPP figurings), Winston should send English to the Governor-General vaunting a minority government, Wow ! Such “legacy”.

   This would be Winston being “uncharacteristically responsible”. He’s going to (and should) cement in the “vacuum” of the last 14 days which [gulp] she and her cohort have snortingly bitched about for all of those 14 days. And the uncertainty will run for three lame duck years or until the sooner (inevitable) snap election.

   The truth is that she and hubby Soper (“the man from the capital”?) seek to endorse the National Party’s perennial ‘entitlement’ burden. The National Party has served their vainglory for years now. Here’s hoping Mickey Savage doesn’t risk blowing his Shyte-Meter by passing through it this ‘Bazza ‘n’ Me Hate Winston’ nonsense.
   • tracey 8.1

     8 October 2017 at 10:14 am

     Do these people get angry when a Fast Food giant tells them they have to wait 2 minutes for their order?

     Government is not fast food. It should be a well thought through thing. It has ONLY been 2 weeks.

     This older generation better never speak again of the young folks need for instant gratification or bemoan their short concentration spans ( both of which are myths).

     Pfffffff
     • Psycho Milt 8.1.1

       8 October 2017 at 10:33 am

       Do these people get angry when a Fast Food giant tells them they have to wait 2 minutes for their order?

       My daughter works at Domino’s, and apparently yes they do. For some people, the fact there are currently over a hundred pizza orders shouldn’t make theirs take any longer to arrive, and the fact that the votes haven’t been counted yet shouldn’t make forming a government take any longer. Like the poor, the stupid will always be with us.
9. Cinny 9

   8 October 2017 at 9:40 am

   Learning about our new MP’s on Q+A, feeling very proud to have these two women in Parliament.

   I didn’t know that Angie, Labours new MP used to run the Womens Refugee in Tauranga, awesome, maybe some of her ideas gained from knowledge in that sector can help NZ with the insipid domestic violence that touches most of our lives.

   Well done NZ for voting in these two MP’s.
10. tracey 10

    8 October 2017 at 10:14 am

    Prebbles last column bemoaning the power of one man. Irony alert anyone?
    • veutoviper 10.1

      8 October 2017 at 10:46 am

      Prebbles? Or do you mean Rodney Hide’s last column in the Herald today? Hurrah!
      • tracey 10.1.1

        8 October 2017 at 1:13 pm

        Oops. I meant Hide. Of course they are interchangeable.
        • veutoviper 10.1.1.1

          8 October 2017 at 1:20 pm

          Both well past their use by dates! Many years ago had the ‘pleasure’ of having a lot to do with Prebble as Minister of Transport. Was not a highlight of my career in the public service.
11. Erkin 11

    8 October 2017 at 10:59 am

    Good piece by Rod Oram at Newsroom exposing the reprehensible Jacqueline Rowarth and her pro-agribusiness lies and disinformation about Monsanto’s Roundup poison. Thirty pieces of silver, Jacquie? https:// http://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/10/07/52025/concerns-at-okay-for-roundup-poison.
    • Psycho Milt 11.1

      8 October 2017 at 1:00 pm

      Rowarth is correct, as per her response in the comments thread of this Sciblogs post linked from Oram’s article:

      The report aligns with the American Cancer Society that the IARC report identifies hazards, whereas the regulatory authorities identify risks, and then the regulations required to keep people safe.

      The IARC just assesses whether a particular thing might cause cancer in some people if they get a high enough dose of it. They don’t do any work on how high a dose might be needed. The EPA’s reviewed the evidence out there and not found any to suggest glyphosate might be a cancer risk at any dose it’s feasible for a human to encounter in everyday circumstances. Maybe if you were to sprinkle a couple of spoonfuls of glyphosate on your Weetbix every morning for 50 years there’s a chance it might give you cancer, but who knows? The IARC certainly doesn’t. Maybe you’d need to eat a kilo a day to have a risk of getting cancer – that’s still “probably carcinogenic” from the IARC’s perspective.

      Thing is, all these groups involve humans and agribusiness isn’t the only interest group lobbying them. The organic food industry, Green politicians and anti-glyphosate nutcases aren’t honest brokers in this any more than Monsanto is.
      • weka 11.1.1

        8 October 2017 at 1:37 pm

        I suspect if you sprinkled a couple of spoonfuls of roundup on your weetbix every morning you would risk ending up in organ failure.
        • Psycho Milt 11.1.1.1

          8 October 2017 at 4:53 pm

          Don’t try this at home, kids!
      • CoroDale 11.1.2

        8 October 2017 at 2:12 pm

        You could defend Round-Up on having a good GHG balance, but “safe-to-health” claims are shit-nuggets through a knowledge-filter. Tests on glyphosphate, may differ from tests on Round-up mix… and endless other hat-tricks to produce poison.
        • weka 11.1.2.1

          8 October 2017 at 2:24 pm

          “You could defend Round-Up on having a good GHG balance”

          How so?
        • Psycho Milt 11.1.2.2

          8 October 2017 at 4:58 pm

          Nothing’s safe for your health if consumed in large enough quantities, up to and including pure water. The relevant question is: at what quantity does it become unsafe? Anti-glyphosate nutters might be convinced there’s no dose small enough to be allowed to enter the sacred temple of their bodies, but the EPA has to take a more objective view.
          • One Two 11.1.2.2.1

            8 October 2017 at 6:39 pm

            An idiot might ‘think’ that’s the relevant question..

            But it isn’t!

            Can you figure out what is?

            PS, looking at your history commenting when this subject comes up, you’re consistent in defending glyphosate

            I would suggest you spend some more time looking into the revolving door, before citing the EPA

            Widen the focus and stop pretending you understand the relevant ‘science’…you do not
            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.2.2.1.1

              8 October 2017 at 6:46 pm

              Citing?

              😆

              You don’t need to cite the EPA to understand the relationship between dosage and toxicity.

              Please don’t bother answering this, you wretched fool.
              • One Two …

                8 October 2017 at 7:13 pm

                No amygdala reference…

                Dosage and toxity is not the question either

                It’s incorrect framing of a relevant question

                You’re a fan of censorship…well done..

                I’m not!
                • One Anonymous Bloke …

                  8 October 2017 at 7:19 pm

                  Five sentences. Nothing substantive imparted.
              • greywarshark …

                8 October 2017 at 8:28 pm

                One Two is an unfortunate pseudo I think for this person. Indicates a low standard of numeracy. And spacing things out like mod poetry and enigmatically saying why to everything – what a waste of space. Tell me something about some subject with a source that might shed some light on our concerns please.
            • Psycho Milt 11.1.2.2.1.2

              8 October 2017 at 7:30 pm

              Despite the misgivings raised by responding to the kind of person who puts quotation marks around the word science….

              looking at your history commenting when this subject comes up, you’re consistent in defending glyphosate

              “Defending” glyphosate? What next? Nigger-lover? There’s nothing to “defend.”

              An idiot might ‘think’ that’s the relevant question.

              Well this particular “idiot” certainly thinks the EPA’s job in this case is to consider the potential harm of using glyphosate as a pesticide relative to the benefits of using it. If you hold a different view of its job, you’re going to need to elaborate because I seriously have no fucking idea what you’re on about.
              • Ed1 …

                8 October 2017 at 10:26 pm

                The Rod Oram article seems to cover the issue very well – it shows that there is spin and selective interpretation both for aand against. The concept of “net benefit” on an undefined basis that offsets health risks against production increases is scary in hiding components – we should be able to do better. Poisons can have long term effects – some of the orchard poisons that caused long term problems in a Hamilton subdivision also caused reductions in fertility – but they did increase production so that’s all right – ? We should at least know details of both sides of the equation . . . and that may require another government.
                • Ed …

                  8 October 2017 at 10:30 pm

                  Rod Oram writing a lot of good stuff at Newroom.
                • Psycho Milt …

                  9 October 2017 at 6:33 am

                  The concept of “net benefit” on an undefined basis that offsets health risks against production increases is scary in hiding components – we should be able to do better.

                  In what way? Using axes and chainsaws involves health risks orders of magnitude higher than the possibility that someone might conceivably suffer cancer at some point in the future if they disregard the safety instructions for using glyphosate over a long period, and yet the forestry industry exists. X-rays are definitely carcinogenic, not probably, and at relatively low doses, and yet we still X-ray people because “net benefit.” It’s an entirely reasonable approach.
12. Draco T Bastard 12

    8 October 2017 at 11:43 am

    Trump’s fake news factory

    * Parscale and his team submitted the email addresses of all known Trump supporters in Facebook’s advertising system. They then got their Facebook profiles, which were sorted by, among other things, ethnicity, gender, and home district.
    * Through the Facebook Lookalike Audiences tool, they identified “lookalikes”, i.e. other Facebook users with similar interests and profiles. In addition, they built an external database of, among others, GOP’s registry of approximately 100M Americans.
    ** By adding large amounts of information for each person in the database, for example, interest according to the person’s site statistics, personality type after prior behaviors such as online purchases, credit card purchases, insurance history, etc. they could segment the people into different categories of voters.
    ** After that, they created large amounts of overly relevant non-truthful news for each segment of people that were then targeted towards the right people on the right occasions.
    ** Ex: when Hillary was already embarrassed by the emails, they heaped on even more negative news towards the voters who were doubtful of Hillary.
    https://medium.com/startup-grind/how-the-trump-campaign-built-an-identity-database-and-used-facebook-ads-to-win-the-election-4ff7d24269ac
    * Parscale’s team then bombarded the various profiles with targeted ads or articles through Facebook
    * Nothing was left to chance: the team sent out tens of thousands of variations of the ads, which prompted quick acquiescence of what worked (so-called A/B-testing). On the day of the third presidential election debate between Trump and Clinton for example, 175 000 different ads where used.

    Despite the ethically dubious goal, Project Alamo was not a secret intelligence operation: Brad Parscale and his co-workers have on multiple occasions openly talked about how they manipulated the American election process and actively undermined democracy.

    This is what happens when private companies have free access to your data and you have no control over it.
    • Ad 12.1

      8 October 2017 at 11:58 am

      If it’s on Facebook you have plenty of control over your information.
      I’m not on Facebook, Baidu, Twitter, anything like that, and I have no loyalty cards.
      But with my regular Google use they still know me pretty well.
      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        8 October 2017 at 12:21 pm

        If it’s on Facebook you have plenty of control over your information.

        [Citation Needed]

        And they’re not actually looking at the information. They’re using algorithms to see if one person ‘looks’ like another and then targeting those people with fake news.
    • tracey 12.2

      8 October 2017 at 1:17 pm

      Dont forget push polling of which Joyce was quite the fan…

      Push polling type question… would you still support Bill English if he was homosexual… type of thing
    • Foreign waka 12.3

      8 October 2017 at 1:50 pm

      I almost start to understand why the US public does not want to relinquish their right to bear arms. With the enemy within, it is difficult to argue against.
      • CoroDale 12.3.1

        8 October 2017 at 2:21 pm

        Yeah, the next govt wants budget to counter lobby, eg. Front- n cross-benches with body-doubles n social PR unit.
        • Foreign waka 12.3.1.1

          8 October 2017 at 5:36 pm

          Maybe we are all looking at the wrong horizon for direction how to achieve peace and a reasonable trade world. Perhaps the US, being only 241 years old and despite technological advance just behaves like a child throwing a tantrum which we mistook for strength? There are no Homers or Socrates in sight, neither short nor long term.
    • ianmac 12.4

      8 October 2017 at 2:30 pm

      Draco didn’t National worms follow the same plan over this election? I don’t follow Facebook but I hear that it was happening.
      • Draco T Bastard 12.4.1

        8 October 2017 at 2:38 pm

        Probably but I haven’t seen anything on it.
    • joe90 12.5

      8 October 2017 at 3:03 pm

      Trumps digital leader –

      (around 2:35 into the video clip)

      INTERVIEWER: I mean, what were Facebook, Google and YouTube people actually doing here? Why were they here?

      THERESA HONG: They were helping us, you know I mean they were basically our hands-on partners as far as being able to you know, utilize the platform as effectively as possible.

      When you’re pumping in millions and millions of dollars to these social platforms, you’re gonna get white club treatment, so they would send people, you know, representatives, to the Project Alamo to ensure that all of our needs were being met

      I don't know how many people are on Mueller's list to interview but I'm guessing she made like #17 pic.twitter.com/pN9qjXXId7

      — Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) September 6, 2017
    • joe90 12.6

      8 October 2017 at 5:44 pm

      Another reason to ditch Facebook.

      Facebook helped propel Donald Trump to the presidency with fake Russian accounts and ads from the country that were pro-Trump, undermined the Clinton campaign, stoked arguments about social issues, and shared fake news stories.
      The platform also embedded Republican employees with the Trump campaign to assist with ad technology, according to a new 60 Minutes interview with the campaign’s digital media director.

      Facebook’s response? Hire a right-wing outlet to fact check news stories.

      According to a new report from Quartz, Facebook plans to sign conservative magazine Weekly Standard as a fact checking partner. Several outlets currently work as fact checkers for the platform, though all the outlets Facebook has signed thus far have been approved by the Poynter Institute.

      https://thinkprogress.org/facebook-weekly-standard-fact-check-8dfc1cba987c/
    • marty mars 12.7

      8 October 2017 at 7:56 pm

      Scarey when you think of what they are doing and why. Privacy has become a thing of the past. Those fake ads are designed to get you thinking the way they want. Bastards.
13. Zorb6 13

    8 October 2017 at 12:10 pm

    Just watched M.Moore in the 9TH Floor on ex P.M’s.Interesting opinion he has of himself .Seems he still regards himself as a real Labour man’,despite embracing Rogernomics and globalisation.Mentioned that Douglas still regards Labour as ‘our party’ too.Had some interesting quotes from Lange,Churchill and Lloyd George,but the underlying timbre of the discourse appeared to me that he regards himself as a man of destiny that was…unlucky.
    • tracey 13.1

      8 October 2017 at 1:19 pm

      Douglas Moore Goff Prebble Lange…

      Where are they now… and after finishing politics

      Who are serving society and who went on to serve themselves…
      • weka 13.1.1

        8 October 2017 at 1:27 pm

        Apparently Pebble was on the telly this morning being asked for his reckons 🙄
        • tracey 13.1.1.1

          8 October 2017 at 1:37 pm

          Good god. Why dont they just quit pretending and call Alan Gibbs
          • weka 13.1.1.1.1

            8 October 2017 at 1:38 pm

            lol. I’d have less of a problem if they were balancing it with left wing voices.
            • tracey 13.1.1.1.1.1

              8 October 2017 at 1:41 pm

              Josie Pagani almost sounded left wing on telly the other day
              • weka …

                8 October 2017 at 1:43 pm

                NOoooooo. Was that by comparison to who else was on?
                • tracey …

                  8 October 2017 at 1:55 pm

                  Probably… was she on with Mr Mapp? I cannot recall cos I didnt watch for long.

                  Maybe Nandor needs to some writing/appearances?
                  • weka …

                    8 October 2017 at 2:23 pm

                    He would be a very interesting political commentator!
      • Zorb6 13.1.2

        8 October 2017 at 1:36 pm

        I believe Lange is deceased as for the others …
        • tracey 13.1.2.1

          8 October 2017 at 1:40 pm

          Just dead inside?
    • Grey Area 13.2

      8 October 2017 at 3:11 pm

      Moore et al = delusional.

      Probably because they can feel the chill winds of time blowing and can see the Grim Reaper at Monty Python’s dinner party : “It was neoliberalism!”
    • Peroxide Blonde 13.3

      8 October 2017 at 3:20 pm

      Is Kelvin Davis still getting political advice from Josi Pagani? I hope not.
14. Ed 14

    8 October 2017 at 8:20 pm

    Duncan Garner has written an article backing Winston on immigration after his experience shopping in Kmart.
    It has provoked a lot of criticism and support on Stuff and twitter.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/97625919/duncan-garner-dear-nz-how-do-we-want-to-look-in-20-years

    https://twitter.com/DuncanGarnerNZ?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    Bomber Bradbury’s analysis is excellent.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/10/08/why-duncan-garners-k-mart-checkout-metaphor-is-actually-delightfully-perfect/

    Bradbury also writes this article
    ‘Why we urgently need to investigate Chinese influence over National’

    ‘The shocking reality that the National Party is little more than a front for Chinese business interests demands far more attention than it gained…

    New research paper lays bare China’s influence campaign in New Zealand
    Concerns raised over political donations and directorships offered to former ministers and relatives
    Chinese-owned New Zealand dairy farms said to possibly being used to test advanced missile technology’

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/10/06/why-we-urgently-need-to-investigate-chinese-influence-over-national/
    • BM 14.1

      8 October 2017 at 8:47 pm

      Garners a racist fuck wit.

      Does Garner ever look around and think look at all those fucking Germans/Swedes/Russians?Polish etc.

      No, he doesn’t because they’re White, Garners sees Black and Brown faces and automatically thinks Foreigner, not New Zealanders

      He’s a thick as pig shit rat-eyed racist arsehole.
      • Ed 14.1.1

        8 October 2017 at 8:58 pm

        I agree with you.

        And I think New Zealand needs a mature discussion about immigration, identity and infrastructure.
      • WILD KATIPO 14.1.2

        8 October 2017 at 9:06 pm

        Gotta love those cheap waged imports , eh ?

        Keeps the white honkey’s and the Bro’s wages to a manageable level , eh what old boy?…. keeps them in their place, – all those commie unionists and what not…

        Lets the other crowd in to invest and plunder the proceeds back to their home country , eh old sausage?… bit like the bally old English did , … my these foreigners learn fast , don’t they , say what ?
        • Ed 14.1.2.1

          8 October 2017 at 9:09 pm

          Martin Bradbury’s analysis of Garner’s piece.

          ‘Rather than complaining about the racial make up of the people standing in line, the real story is why Kmart has been able to hollow out their staff for self-check outs. The economic system that exploits everyone shopping there is the issue, not the ethnicity of those forced to wait in line.

          So what is this column really about?

          A multinational retailer gutting worker rights to the same level of the sweat shop made products they import is crowded by poor people and migrants trying to stretch their dollar while a middle class white bloke happy to exploit the low prices brought about by globalisation hisses about immigrants because he has to wait in line with them.

          To be honest, that kinda does sum up NZ almost perfectly doesn’t it?’
          • WILD KATIPO 14.1.2.1.1

            8 October 2017 at 9:23 pm

            … ” middle class white bloke ” …

            I think you’ll find that lot ( and others – witness the amount of Indian /Chinese exploiting recent immigrants from their home country and flouting our laws ) are only one section.

            What we have here , – is enabled neo liberalism that sets worker against worker and unscrupulous employers reigning supreme.

            I get a little sick and tired of wankers using the overdone cliched ‘oppressive white man’ card when every other bastard from every other race takes less than 1.5 seconds to realize an opportunity in order to exploit some other poor bastard regardless of their race .

            I usually find the same sort of wankers actively encourage this sort of sanctimonious inverse racism because it suits their surreptitious pecuniary advantage to do so.

            And if it was up to me ?

            I would cut immigration massively and encourage taking on a much larger quota of refugees instead.

            And not necessarily RICH ONES either.

            That’d soon sort out all these parsimonious fuckers who like to play the race issue to further their own ends,… AND , – as well as THAT , – legislate an AWARD RATE for wages.

            I can hear the wankers , the racists , the opportunist’s and the disgusting treasonous globalist shitters squealing from here as they kick their troughs over in panic….

            The fuck with the whole howling , squawking sanctimonious hypocritical lot of them.

            AND THAT’S ,… the power of balanced nationalism and taking a fucking pride in ones own country – and not being a doormat for FUCKING WANKERS.
            • Ed 14.1.2.1.1.1

              8 October 2017 at 9:25 pm

              Totally agree.
          • In Vino 14.1.2.1.2

            8 October 2017 at 9:29 pm

            I would be very wary about agreeing with BM if I were you….
            • Ed 14.1.2.1.2.1

              8 October 2017 at 9:34 pm

              I agree with him about Garner’s racism.
              But I doubt we agree on much else.

              Steve Cowan, a true leftie, writes.

              ‘A dedicated cheerleader for the market economy , Garner won’t place the responsibility for New Zealand’s economic and social problems at the door of those who are really responsible- successive governments, both Labour and National, who have pursued economic and social policies that have led inevitably to more poverty and inequality and more division.

              We live in a society where market forces and values have been prioritised over basic human needs and aspirations. But Garner would rather scapegoat immigrants instead – even claiming they are responsible for stealing ‘our dreams’.’
              • WILD KATIPO …

                8 October 2017 at 9:51 pm

                Yep , – its the same old blaming the ‘ little people’ instead of looking at the shit – for – brains neo liberal treasonist’s who created the situation we are in.

                Meanwhile ,… as the veneer is removed , we see both the privatized media and the globalist National party for the supercilious fuckers they really are.

                Relax.

                The Jeremy Corbyn effect / awakening is well on its way.
                • Ed …

                  8 October 2017 at 9:57 pm

                  That what I hope…
                  • WILD KATIPO …

                    8 October 2017 at 10:00 pm

                    🙂

                    Me too…. but as I’ve said time and again….

                    Time is on our/ your / my side.

                    And that’s just what the far right neo liberal hates to hear.

                    They know its true.
                    • Ed …

                      8 October 2017 at 10:11 pm

                      I like your positive thoughts.
                      😊
                    • WILD KATIPO …

                      8 October 2017 at 10:25 pm

                      I get that warm fuzzy feeling every time I perceive neo liberal / treasonist scumbags suffering ,… sort of like ,… when you crack your ankle joints in the morning after a refreshing nights sleep,… you know,… that sense of ”oooo ”… mild slight dull ‘cracking ‘ pain but instant mobility and warmth in the joints…

                      Well ,… expelling neo liberals is much the same … mild pain at first but then a great sense of mobility , warmth and perception of circulation ,… a great feeling of ‘can do ‘ …

                      And that’s whats in store for us,… transcending the diseased state into the full picture of health once the virus is expelled… a little bit more , a little bit more application ,… and we will be all sitting around wondering what all the fuss was all about and why it took us all so long …

                      And that’s all neo liberalism ever was : a virus. An extremist far right wing virus concocted by neo NAZI’s and their sympathizers.

                      New Right Fight – Who are the New Right?
                      http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/pageA.html
                    • Ed …

                      8 October 2017 at 10:34 pm

                      From CAFCA’s website.

                      ‘Foreign direct investment (ownership of companies) in New Zealand increased from $15.7 billion in March 1989 to $110.8 billion at March 2016 – over seven times. As a proportion of the total output of the economy, Gross Domestic Product, it has risen from 22% to 44%. Ownership of overseas companies by New Zealand residents has not grown as fast over that period (five and a half times) so net foreign direct investment has grown over eight times from a net liability of $8.8 billion to $72.8 billion, and as a percentage of GDP multiplied over two times from 13% of GDP to 29%.

                      Foreign owners controlled 36% of the share market in 2016. In 1989, the figure was 19% and it was estimated to be below 5% in 1986.
                      At March 2015, they owned an estimated 22% of the value of all equity (shareholdings) and 26% of privately owned equity of enterprises in New Zealand, including shares not listed on the stock exchange.
                      Foreign investors owned 24% (or $368 billion) of net wealth in New Zealand whose commercial net value totalled $1.5 trillion at March 2015. They owned 27% of private net wealth. This comprised housing, land, other property, plant, equipment and financial assets owned directly or indirectly by households, government, non-profit organisations and foreign investors. New Zealand residents owned a further $215 billion of investments abroad. (These totals exclude shared natural wealth such as rivers, and human and social capital.)’
                    • WILD KATIPO …

                      8 October 2017 at 10:56 pm

                      Brilliant !

                      And I hope the Moanday morning scumbag privatized newsmedia take notice ( as I KNOW they do because the lazy bastards look at these types of blogs to gauge some sort of ‘ public sentiment’ – I worked security at a major NZ TV network and was a fly on the wall, – to their detriment – like a ‘plant’ as it were …)

                      And I would just like to shove THIS in their faces for all the junior politico wanks who weren’t even born in 1984…

                      Here’s your fucking neo liberalism for ya,… and your fucking Ruth Richardson and her bullshit NZ Initiative mentality …

                      …………………………………………………………

                      Ken Douglas, then president of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, recalled in the 1996 documentary Revolution:

                      The Employment Contracts Act was deliberately intended to individualize the employment relationship. It was a natural outcome of the ideological propaganda of rugged individualism, of self-interest and greed and the appeal to individuals that you could find better for you by climbing over the tops of your colleagues, your mates, and so on. Ruth Richardson was very clear, very blunt, very honest about its purpose. It was to achieve a dramatic lowering of wages, very, very quickly.

                      ……………………………………………………………

                      There you go ,.. and Bolger the wanker crying his crocodile tears about ‘ neo liberalism was a mistake’… what a wanker.

                      As if he didn’t see the massive demonstrations at the time.

                      As if he didn’t realize what this would do to NZ society.

                      As if he didnt know what this would do to the NZ worker.

                      As if he didn’t know all the insider trading and the massive profits shifted offshore and the massive profits gained by his colleagues in the NZ Business Roundtable ( now renamed the NZ Initiative ).

                      What a total hypocritical cunt.

                      Him playing along with Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson , – BOTH Board of Directors of the Mont Pelerin Society of England.

                      What a piece of shit.

                      What a dirty filthy reptilian piece of snake scum.

                      Crack those ankles and feel good , people,… the awakening is happening.

                      And your about to be vindicated for every hateful thought you ever had against these wanking scum.
    • marty mars 14.2

      8 October 2017 at 9:00 pm

      Apparently Canadians and the English own more property. Racism is stupid. Being worried about losing what we have is valid. I wish the 2 were kept separate.
      • Ed 14.2.1

        8 October 2017 at 9:02 pm

        I agree.

        We urgently need a mature discussion about immigration, identity and infrastructure.

        However, it just may be too late.
15. Incognito 15

    8 October 2017 at 8:23 pm

    Hi weka,

    I’ve sent you a message.
16. WILD KATIPO 16

    8 October 2017 at 8:58 pm

    School holidays.

    I’m bored ! ,… is the cry … send em along for a little bit of this…. or then again, perhaps not.

    Alice Cooper – School’s Out (from Alice Cooper: Trashes The World …
    
17. joe90 17

    8 October 2017 at 9:16 pm

    TransCanada Corp’s Energy East tarsands pipeline has been canned and both the Keystone XL and Trans Mountain projects are on shakey ground.

    https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/10/05/news/disappointment-and-delight-mark-death-energy-east-pipeline

    http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/energy-east-death-pins-oil-sands-hopes-on-two-troubled-pipelines

    http://www1.aer.ca/ST98/figures/transporation_facilities/figure_9_2.jpg
18. Katipo 18

    8 October 2017 at 9:29 pm

    Was interesting listening to the professor on Kim Hill Saturday who’s field is ‘electoral physiology’ talking about studies that show when people vote by postal ballot or internet they vote along more egocentric lines as opposed to actually going to the polling both.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201861544
19. Ed 19

    8 October 2017 at 9:49 pm

    Vast animal-feed crops to satisfy our meat needs are destroying planet
    WWF report finds 60% of global biodiversity loss is down to meat-based diets which put huge strain on Earth’s resources

    ‘The ongoing global appetite for meat is having a devastating impact on the environment driven by the production of crop-based feed for animals, a new report has warned.

    The vast scale of growing crops such as soy to rear chickens, pigs and other animals puts an enormous strain on natural resources leading to the wide-scale loss of land and species, according to the study from the conservation charity WWF.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/05/vast-animal-feed-crops-meat-needs-destroying-planet
    • Psycho Milt 19.1

      9 October 2017 at 6:42 am

      …60% of global biodiversity loss is down to meat-based diets…

      That’s your spin on it. The non-spin version is that 60% of global biodiversity loss is down to growing crops to feed stock animals, which certainly is a stupid thing to do but isn’t inherent to a meat-based diet. So, not actually the same thing, but nice propaganda you’ve got there.
      • Robert Guyton 19.1.1

        9 October 2017 at 7:07 am

        He did lead with: “Vast animal-feed crops to satisfy our meat needs are destroying planet”
        Is New Zealand’s pasture-based system included in the figure? If so, it would be even higher. Loss of biodiversity through conversion to pasture is enormous, imo. I don’t get your point, “…isn’t inherent to a meat-based diet” – seems to me, it is! Are you meaning some meat-based diets are serviced by hunting wild game? Wouldn’t be a very big %
        • Psycho Milt 19.1.1.1

          9 October 2017 at 7:39 am

          Loss of biodiversity through conversion to pasture is enormous, imo. I don’t get your point, “…isn’t inherent to a meat-based diet” – seems to me, it is!

          So, pasture and crops both reduce biodiversity. Which means the issue isn’t that a meat-based diet reduces biodiversity, it’s that having 7 billion-plus people on the planet reduces biodiversity.
          • Robert Guyton 19.1.1.1.1

            9 October 2017 at 8:14 am

            Meat-eating necessitates a loss of diversity. Plant eating could be managed to increase diversity significantly, at least over that which exists presently. A mixed, managed woodland that’s filled with edible perennials and a sprinkling of annual vegetables would do it 🙂 As to population management, that’s a whole other story.
          • Psycho Milt 19.1.1.1.2

            9 October 2017 at 8:57 am

            I expect meat-eating could be managed to increase diversity significantly as well. The problems are that we aren’t doing that either for plants or livestock, and we have way too many people to do it for everyone anyway. Whether people eat meat or not is of little relevance.
      • marty mars 19.1.2

        9 October 2017 at 9:11 am

        Did you read the intro – the report said it and ed repeated it – that is the opposite of spin unlike your spin which actually is spin
        • Psycho Milt 19.1.2.1

          9 October 2017 at 9:58 am

          the report said it and ed repeated it

          Well, yes. That’s “your” spin as in “you vegetarian/vegan activists,” of which the Guardian is one as well as Ed.
          • marty mars 19.1.2.1.1

            9 October 2017 at 10:12 am

            Ok got it ,didn’t realise it was inclusive. The author of the article may be in, not sure about the media outlet as a whole though.

            Edit yesterday’s news sorry now back to today…
            • CoroDale 19.1.2.1.1.1

              12 October 2017 at 7:50 pm

              24/7, it’s like Huxley, Time Must Have a Stop.
20. joe90 20

    8 October 2017 at 10:16 pm

    Map pron.

    http://brilliantmaps.com/population-circle/
    • Ed 20.1

      8 October 2017 at 10:23 pm

      Interesting.
    • Robert Guyton 20.2

      9 October 2017 at 7:10 am

      Inside the circle you will also find:
      “The least sparsely populated country on earth (Mongolia)”
      ?
      • Andre 20.2.1

        9 October 2017 at 7:25 am

        Why the “?” ? A quick google of “country population density ranking” comes up with this.

        https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000

        That the worst effects of climate change are expected in a broad belt right across the most densely populated part of that circle is fukn scary.
        • Robert Guyton 20.2.1.1

          9 October 2017 at 7:32 am

          Perhaps I’m denser than usual this morning, but shouldn’t it be “The most sparsely populated…?
          • Andre 20.2.1.1.1

            9 October 2017 at 7:36 am

            I wouldn’t say denser. Suffering from an excess of pedantry, perhaps.
            • Robert Guyton 20.2.1.1.1.1

              9 October 2017 at 7:58 am

              Pedantry!!!
              🙂
              Most lightly populated.
              Least populated.
              Most unpopulated.
              Emptiest of people.
              Quietest.
              Most thinly populated.
              Least peopled.
              In any case, “least sparsely populated” means the opposite of what might have been intended (by my reckoning 🙂
            • joe90 20.2.1.1.1.2

              9 October 2017 at 9:01 am

              I love pedantry and Robert’s quite correct. Most sparsely.
    • CoroDale 20.3

      12 October 2017 at 7:52 pm

      Asian are good in the lower back – but every thing sounds like fear-porn to me 9-)

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