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Open mike 08/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 8th, 2015 - 115 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

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Step up to the mike …

115 comments on “Open mike 08/12/2015 ”

    • Muttonbird 1.1

      Are you the one whose family voted Labour for generation upon generation until David Cunnliffe became leader?

      • The lost sheep 1.1.1

        My family before me yes, and I voted Labour (or Greens occaisionally) all my life – until the last election, when I finally got so sick of the infighting, the lack of vision, and the slavish conformity to outdated dogma that I voted for National as a protest.

        If you’ve seen that graph that shows Labour support over the last 100 years, you’ll recognize that this is just part of the overall pattern of decline in support.

        I’m still waiting for The Left to see the writing on the wall. Let alone start to write the story that will make it relevant to The People again. Hence the stories above Titi. Wake up call anyone?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          outdated dogma

          Translation: unions, human rights, fair pay rates, evidence-based policy.

          To be replaced by the mindless shite that Sheep believes very hard.

          Edit: I note that “outdated dogma” is an oxymoron: if it’s been outdated (by what?) it was once appropriate to its time and therefore, not dogma. This will sail right over Gobsheep’s head.

          • The lost sheep

            Anyone wanting to understand why the Left is bleeding support only need study your collected works here OAB.

            Anyone not wanting to understand can parrot the Lefts new narrative of blame. The Voters are Stupid / The Voters are Greedy / The Media is against us / The voters are brainwashed / It’s a conspiracy (many conspiracies actually) / Money is an unfair advantage / etc etc etc.

            Anything but take a look in the mirror.
            You are happy with the status quo aren’t you. No need to change anything.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              I’m the Left, apparently, and yet, curiously, I have never once advanced any of Sheep’s litany of alleged Leftie tropes.

              Meanwhile, Labour is up 5% since the last election. Gosh, two examples of utterly false assertions in one Gobsheep! 😆

              • The lost sheep

                3 elections on, Labour 31% National 47%.
                And you are happy.
                I rest my case.

                • Anne

                  It’s 20 years since we moved form FPP to MMP Tls. And you didn’t know? Where have you been hiding? Under a rock in the Sahara Desert?
                  That’s the height of ignorance you know.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Hi Anne this is from below but it seems pertinent to this discussion

                    Remind me again how many elections Labour have been in power for since the advent of MMP versus how many National have been in

                    In case you were wondering of the seven elections held under MMP National have won power in four and Labour have won power in three and since National is likely to regain power in 2017 it’ll be 2020 before Labours back in power

                    [lprent: You really shouldn’t use spurious stats when I am around. I find it irritating. What you are describing is 2 changes of government each currently of 3 terms, and the one term left over from the government at the time of a change to MMP.

                    And trolling such simple minded bullshit annoys me even more. I suggest that you discontinue ]

                • One Anonymous Bloke


                  Fuck off. Confine your observations to things you have a clue about. Yes, that will leave you with nothing to say.

        • Muttonbird

          Looks as if at some point (Cunliffe’s “sorry”, I’ll wager) you have just decided to abandon your values.

          • The lost sheep

            Looks as if at some point (Cunliffe’s “sorry”, I’ll wager) you have just decided to abandon your values.
            Mate. I voted Labour in ’84 and ’87, and then I voted for them again in ’90.
            If i stuck with them through all those changes in values, I think you can take it as read that a relative featherweight like Cunliffe would hardly tip me off the boat!

    • Bill 1.2

      The Greenslade piece in ‘The Guardian’ is a bit odd. A lot of the analysis seems reasonable, but a fair chunk of what he’s driving at hinges on this …

      Despite strolling to the Oldham by-election victory, the party is generally regarded by the majority of its MPs, political journalists and their editors, as unelectable.

      Now, count those people up and how many people are we talking of? Not many.

      And then there’s….Corbyn’s new army embodies yet another faction: the idealistic middle classes. Reconciling their views with those who lean towards Ukip is more than a stretch.

      Does he not understand that many of those who voted UKIP cast their vote as a protest, and does he also not understand that Labour kind of endorsed voting on an immigration ticket with it’s own stupid fucking ‘tough on immigration’ policy?

      Anyway. Labour in Scotland is dead. But Labour in England and Wales is possibly on the cusp of a revival given that Miliband’s changes opened up the party far and a way beyond any opening up that has occurred for the NZ Labour Party.

      Add to that that the UK Labour Party is, under Corbyn, seeking to articulate the type of sensibilities that now belong to the SNP in Scotland and, well….we’ll see.

      My only real criticism of Corbyn is that he’s stuck fast in a dim and irrelevant ‘one world’ past with regards nationalism. He should have signaled an alliance with the SNP and left the corpse of the Blairite Scottish Labour Party to rot. Civic nationalism in Scotland should have embraced by Labour, afterall, you can’t have internationalism without nationalism, and the smaller a political entity is, the greater chance for better accountability, and then the greater the chance is for the emergence of authentic autonomy – the next step beyond nationalism and nation states, y’know, socialism.;-)

  1. b waghorn 2


    Audrey pimping for collins as is henry who just gave the horrible women collins free reign to reinvent herself into a honest women.

    • Paul 2.1

      For the hard right, Collins is the way forward.
      Henry is simply a pimp for the corporate criminals running this place.

      • b waghorn 2.1.1

        He’s an odd mix ,if you keep in mind that he’s a horrible simple minded prick,I find him honest in that he says it how he sees it.
        Interestly he was just pushing Finland’s upcoming ubi trial.

        • vto

          “,I find him honest in that he says it how he sees it.”

          I find people who say they do this (call a spade a spade type shite) to be intentionally simplistic and hence deceitful. They hide things with their simplistic nonsense.

  2. amirite 3

    Despite assurances (lies) from Key, detainees are signing forms that give away their guaranteed right to appeal when they’re coerced to return home.
    And of course not any other media except RNZ is reporting this, because it’s just another big lie in the long list of John Key’s lies and we’re becoming numb/used/indifferent to it.


  3. Ad 4

    How will the parliamentary left regain the momentum it had with the public over the Australian deportees?

    Government’s reshuffle and the Cabinet decisions this week have tilted the momentum back to Key. Very smart decision for Act’s Seymour to stay out of Cabinet.

    I am incredibly surprised that the Opposition parties have not built upon the climate change marches momentum and continued strong stories during the Paris COP 21 negotiations.

    Momentum will of course come and go, but it will take more than the occasional stunt out of a helicopter to sustain public attention.

    • jenny kirk 4.1

      Momentum will gradually build up, Ad. That is better than quick ups and downs.
      And hopefully the upward momentum will be retained thru to 2017.

      I also note that ShonKey’s popularity has been gradually sliding downwards for quite a while …. it’s still respectable, but maybe more and more people are finally waking up to him !

      • Ad 4.1.1

        I think that’s a little blithe, Jenny.

        Let me give you an example of the kinds of successes that this current government will ride from 2016 to 2017:

        – Announcement of full funding for City Rail Link, first quarter 2016 (and start of early construction works within a couple of weeks)
        – Commence works on National Convention Centre with Sky City, first quarter 2016
        – Start of full demolition of Auckland’s downtown shopping centre, second quarter 2016
        – Commencement of SH1 Puhoi to Wellsford construction, end second quarter 2016
        – Announcement of confirmed timing of Waitemata harbor tunnel crossing, second quarter 2016
        – Start of Elliot Street tower (over 40 stories high), second quarter 2016
        – Start construction on 5 star hotel on Auckland’s waterfront, second quarter 2016
        – Queenstown Convention Centre starts construction, third quarter 2016
        – Announcement of Auckland light rail options, third quarter 2016
        – Opening of new Waterfront theatre, end 2016
        – Start of Ruataniwha Dam construction, third quarter 2016
        – Opening of Waterview tunnels for SH16 and SH20, first quarter 2017
        – Huge number of civic openings in Christchurch as stages complete, first quarter 2017
        – Then you have the 2017 budget tax cuts, which will be substantial


        What I am indicating is that this government understands the secret to politics in New Zealand right now is real estate and roading. The momentum that they have built and encouraged through incredibly low Reserve Bank targets will see Auckland, Christchurch, and Queenstown-Lakes take the economic lead as the rest of the economy remains at 2% growth.

        The stories that the Opposition break have to be even bigger than this.
        That was how good Kelvin’s hit was. The loss of momentum is a serious loss.

        These guys are fully geared for a fourth term, and the momentum of the economy is with them.

  4. Puckish Rogue 5

    Now we’ll see how good Kelvin Davis is (or if he can be leader) now that he has a real challenge on his hands

    Jacinda Ardern is a lightweight dolly bird that couldn’t handle Paula Bennett and Nikki Kay and as such shouldn’t be considered as a viable option for leader of Labour and now Kelvin Davis has a real chance to show what hes got

    Things have gotten interesting again

    • jenny kirk 5.1

      Labour has a Leader, Puckish R. This is just another bit of bs-waving by Nats for which you are the mouthpiece.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        Yes well a leader that can’t convince an electorate to vote for him either but more importantly I’m looking forward to Davis vs Collins, we’ll see if Davis has what it takes

        • savenz

          Collins appointment is to take the heat of Key and have some more drivel for talk back radio so that real issues don’t come up.

          Hard to believe they can find someone less honest than Key to make him look better, but they have!

          Collins is a patsy to take the heat off other issues – like the Natz destroying our democracy and TPP.

          What better distraction than 2nd hand car dealer promoter/Kauri swamp marketer/minister of Police/corrections Collins to distract!

          We are starting to make Malaysia look good!

        • DoublePlusGood

          “can’t convince an electorate to vote for him”
          1990 just called, it wants its political strategies back.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Remind me again how many elections Labour have been in power for since the advent of MMP versus how many National have been in

            • Stuart Munro

              Dark ages often lasted for hundreds of years – National malgovernance only feels like a series of dark eternities.

          • Puckish Rogue

            In case you were wondering of the seven elections held under MMP National have won power in four and Labour have won power in three and since National is likely to regain power in 2017 it’ll be 2020 before Labours back in power

            But hey you keep on the good fight

  5. Tautoko Mangō Mata 6

    I see that USA are being sued under NAFTA because the USA law requiring the labelling of the origin of meat contravenes the agreement.

    The United States’ North American trading partners argued that being forced to label where animals were born, raised, and slaughtered placed an undue burden on livestock producers and processors and, as AgriPulse reports, “ultimately persuaded the WTO that the law accorded unfavorable treatment to Canadian and Mexican livestock.”

    NZ should not sign the TPP. Why not learn from others mistakes?

    • savenz 6.1

      +100 Tautoko Mangō Mata

      TPP does not benefit citizens of any country, only giant agrochemical multi nationals who will benefit from relaxed food standards and consumer choice to ram toxic intensive and un proven food with poor animal welfare standards onto unwitting consumers plates.

  6. savenz 7

    Very interesting video about how TTIP (and likewise TPP) will destroy small and medium farmers (i.e. like NZ farmers), introduce Genetically modified foods, introduce chlorinated meat washing techniques and USA agricultural intensive farming practises around the world with these ‘free trade’ agreements.

    It is not only NZ farms being bought up by agribusiness and foreign investors it is also happening in Europe. Soon as well as being tenants in our own country we will also be able to afford the ‘raw food’ materials of our country as they will be exported using mega supply chains to other countries to be processed.

    The video also has a lot of useful statistics like how 70% of the worlds fresh water is used in agribusiness and 52% of emissions are from agribusiness as to get that massive scale petrol is used to ship around the world.

    While we like to think NZ is an exporter so TPP will ‘help’ farmers it appears that most mega agribusiness like Montanso and investment companies buying up land for food are most likely to use NZ as a banana republic, and use their own migrant labour, offshore productions and supply chains to export the food cutting out the middle men (Kiwis) and using sophisticated tax laws to pay the minimum of taxes while getting the maximum of corporate welfare.

    It is already happening, TPP just means governments will not be able to stop it as they can be sued.

  7. Northsider 8

    Request: Please do not upset TRP today.
    Te Reo Putake is in a very grumpy mood and lashing out at all and sundry. She/He is very very very sensitive to any hint that Robertson and King had a major say in the cabinet selection. TRP is also very very very sensitive to Claire Trevett’s story that King promised her Rongotai seat to Little on condition that he publically humiliate Cunliffe.

    te reo putake…
    7 December 2015 at 10:40 pm
    Chooky, I have a life. I’ve been out, as it happens, and even if I wasn’t, I answer if and when when I fucken well feel like it, not according to your agenda. Bill’s comments are full of shit. The shadow cabinet was chosen by Little as is his right.

    I never said what Bill claimed I did, and what he claimed about caucus selecting the shadow cabinet was wrong in fact anyway and the that’s the end of that story.

    Bill fucked up out of ignorance. What’s your excuse?

    • vto 8.1

      Put it down to being a white middle male

      Everyone else blames these factors (race, age, gender) whenever a white middle male does something so may as well join in the fun.

    • Karen 8.2

      Why do you keep repeating this bullshit, Northsider?

      Trevett’s story did not do what you claim yet you keep repeating your lies, and your obsession with Robertson is getting to the pathological stage.

      I am not a fan of the way TRP reacts to criticism, but your continuous attempts to enter into long, pointless and ill-informed attacks on Labour in a desperate attempt to get him to respond makes me suspicious of your real motives.

      • Northsider 8.2.1

        1. Trevett says Annette will surrender Rongotai to Andrew Little. No one disputed this. Trevett has shown she is being fed excellent intelligence throughput this process.
        2. All are saying the ABC’s have seen the Cunliffe supporters in the Caucus demoted, relative to Robertson supporter, and Cunliffe himself humiliated.
        3. The insulting positiong of Cunliffe had nothing to do with his work rate, ability or behaviour since Little took over.
        4. Cunliffe strongly supported Little in the Leadership battle and actually held-off standing down until it was coinfirmed little was elected. So Cunliffe was done to for other reasons that Little was unable to resist.
        5. Trevett says there was no room for a “charachter like Cunliffe” . That was code for saying the ABCers wanted Cunliffe fully out this time. Little had no personal or performance related reason to want Cunliffe out.
        6. That does mean that the Rongotai seat and Cunliffe were part of the one conversation.

        Karen, do not impune my motive. I have not impuned yours. We are all Labour.

        • Karen

          Okay Northsider, I’ll take your word that you are not a right wing troll trying to create dissent, but it sure was starting to look like it. And by the way my politics are somewhat to the left of both Labour and the Green Party, but I have supported both electorally and financially .
          As to your points:
          1. Trevett did not say “Annette will surrender Rongotai to Andrew Little.” She said it was a possibility, which it obviously is. Anybody can see that. Your assumption that Trevett is getting leaked information is based on a misunderstanding of the work of political journalists.
          2. A number of Cunliffe supporters have been promoted. This has been pointed out to you before.
          3. I was also disappointed with Cunliffe’s demotion, but I do not know what his work rate has been like over recent months compared to others and neither do you.
          4. Cunliffe stood down when Little decided to stand, not when Little was elected.
          5. I like Cunliffe and supported his leadership, but there is no question he is a decisive figure. I suspect Little has asked for Cunliffe to work with him to see how well he works with others. I know Little wanted caucus members to work together on projects and perhaps Cunliffe found that difficult. I do not know – I am just guessing.
          6.Sorry, your conclusion does not follow at all.

          • Colonial Viper

            2. A number of Cunliffe supporters have been promoted. This has been pointed out to you before.

            The ones who have clearly switched away from Cunliffe to support the ABCs have been promoted.

            Cunliffe’s demotion has nothing to do with his work rate, his ability, his experience of his ability to work with others.

            It has everything to do with the Robertson crowd and the right wingers in caucus wanting Cunliffe as a future leadership threat permanently gone.

            • Chooky

              +100 CV…from what I have heard Cunliffe is very good to work with and work for…so what the hell is going on?!

              …the rank and file Labour members voted for David Cunliffe!…that should be enough to earn him a top place in Cabinet …if the management was good

              ….and a high place for Mania Mahuta who brought in the Maori seats, when Labour was losing most others ….except for TTT which was won by Kelvin Davis against Hone Harawira

              ….and we all know Lusk was involved in TTT…he says so himself and there is suggestion of payment of the Maori voters in TTT


              ….” Duncan Garner also revealed supporters of Labour’s Napier MP Stewart Nash paid Simon Lusk to canvas the option of a new political party, and that Simon Lusk had told him Labour MP Phil Twyford would be his next target.
              Simon Lusk also claimed on Story he had been instrumental in unseating Mana Party co-leader Hone Harawira in the last election. Unnamed “businessmen” had paid thousands for that, he said. And in conversation with his co-host last Monday, Duncan Garner said money had been paid to get Maori electors to vote in Te Tai Tokerau.
              Was political operative Simon Lusk really paying people on behalf of clients to influence an election? Disappointingly, no more was said about this claim.The following day, Duncan Garner posted a statement from Simon Lusk on the websites of TV3’s Story and Radio Live. In it, Simon Lusk said:
              Iwi now have extensive databases of members who they can easily mobilise. Assembling a team of 50 or 100 iwi members to get out the vote is straightforward, legal and effective if it is possible to raise some koha.
              He added that “if you’re not paying for votes or offering anything in exchange for a vote, or treating,” it is not against the law. But that statement didn’t answer key questions: How much was paid? By whom? And for what purpose? “…

              ( Questions need to be asked and answered about what is going on in the Labour Party)

              • Leftie

                Why do you keep repeating that nonsense Chooky? Why would you believe anything Garner and Lusk (in particular) says? and you’re dreaming re: “new party”

                Go and talk with Ngāpuhi, you will find Lusk had nothing to do with Hone losing his seat, it was partnering up with Dotcom that did. I got told Hone lost all credibility when he showed he needed a “white man” (their words) to win.

                David Cunliffe is still very much a target by msm, and didn’t he tell John Campbell post election/leadership that he didn’t know if he would be staying on for the 2017 election? Personally I wouldn’t want to see him go, but “IF” he did, I would respect his decision, and you do not know of the talks Cunliffe and Little would have had prior to the reshuffle, which I am sure David Cunliffe was well aware of before the announcement.

            • Karen

              That’s just your opinion CV and you have provided no evidence to back up your theories.

              You obviously loathe Robertson and you and your small band of supporters are trying desperately to get people to believe your conspiracy theories. To what end I have no idea, but I personally am disappointed that you have decided to undertake this campaign as I used to find your comments on NZ politics worth reading. No longer.

      • Cheers, Karen, a couple of points well made. I do tend to lash out when people claim I’ve said things I haven’t and it’s a fault, I know. But that and excessive modesty are pretty much my only character defects as far as I can tell 😉

        • Jenny Kirk

          And to te reo putake – people are different, react in different ways, I – personally – find what you have to say refreshing and to the point. So I always read your opinions.

          • te reo putake

            Cheers, Jenny, much appreciated. It’s one of the strengths of the Standard that there are many so many great contributors, yourself included. We have the liveliest, most educated comments of any NZ blog, by quite some distance.

    • Bill 8.3

      Ah – another Bill. Okay. Back to what I was doing before reading that. 😉

  8. esoteric pineapples 9

    What’s the bet the GCSB has started survelliance of SAFE on the grounds that it is an organisation threatening New Zealand’s economic well-being.

    • savenz 9.1

      @ E p surveillance started? It has probably been on going the whole time!

      What else is the increased 8 million to be spent on, (apart from undermining the political and activist opposition to this corrupt government and their spin doctors)!

    • b waghorn 9.2

      Do you see know irony in what you are saying.
      The gcsb might learn something about spying from safe.

  9. Gangnam Style 10

    Theres a court case coming soon in Dunedin [deleted]

    [lprent: I believe that it is also subject to court suppression orders. I’d strongly suggest that if you want to comment here and you don’t think that you can use the name, then you don’t make the detail of the cases obvious either. Otherwise you should state is there is a suppression order and what its limits are. There are multiple levels from simple name suppression through to blanket suppression that will even make mentioning that a suppression order has been made subject to contempt of court. If you can’t state them, then I’m liable, and quite liable to simply kick you off the site for a year or two to make sure I don’t have waste time moderating you.

    But really, the courts operational rules on suppression simply don’t work in an online world. I’m forever having to find out about suppression orders to just know what to moderate. It is a bit of a nuisance that the courts run under a stupid secrecy model and don’t supply us with lists of what is and what isn’t suppressed. ]

  10. savenz 11

    It turns out Zuckerbergs $45bn ‘donation’ wasn’t a proper gift at all. It has just been “stuffed into a for-profit limited liability company, rather than a foundation, which means that you don’t have to tell everybody exactly what you’re up to, and you’re allowed to make money from poorer people who are making money, do a bit of political lobbying, take some money back, support your very own pet causes, change the world however you fancy and feel just like God: all-powerful and adored.”

    ‘I was suspicious of the Zuckerbergs’ $45bn donation – and I was right to be”
    Michele Hanson


  11. greywarshark 12

    I’ve just been reading about early photographer Nikola Persheid (or Perscheid). He was a good photographer and worked at his studio with many who became as well-known as him on their own. He developed a special camera suitable for portraits that was used internationally. He worked in many different places, after ‘developing’ his trade by being an itinerant photographer. But was not able to make a good living, although his work was high quality and well considered. The competitive self-reliant world can be very hard on individuals who are acting as entrepreneurs breaking into new fields. He came to a sad end. He deserved better.

    Towards the end of the 1920s, Perscheid had severe financial problems. In autumn 1929 he had to sub-rent his apartment to be able to pay his own rent. Shortly afterwards, he suffered a stroke, and was hospitalized in spring of 1930.

    While he was at the hospital, his belongings, including his cameras and photographic plates, but also all his furniture were auctioned off to pay his debts. Two weeks after the auction, on 12 May 1930,[6] Perscheid died at the Charité hospital in Berlin.

    So he died and I can’t find where he was buried, probably in a pauper’s grave. We need to keep our social welfare so that people of note, who have been of note, or who never achieved a note can be treated fairly and kindly.

  12. greywarshark 13

    I was browsing on TS and went to scroll up and the blog vanished to a white screen headed Gone and then something about the address had gone with no further addres and to remove all references to it from my computer. I closed down and immediately requested TS again and it came on no trouble.

    Also it has been very slow loading at times lately. Just letting you know.

    • lprent 13.1

      Interesting. That usually indicates that a TCP connection has been forcibly disconnected from the server side. I will have a look at the page load time profile.

      • b waghorn 13.1.1

        I get the “gone page” when shifting from page to page on occasion. Being a hick I just put it down to rural network stuff.

      • Anne 13.1.2

        Can confirm very slow loading… we’re talking of minutes not seconds. I can also report something similar to gws’s experience – a vanishing TS only to return upon a fresh loading.

        • lprent

          Ummm. Can’t see much myself. But I’ll have a look when I get home in about an hour. Been having an issue with some stray apache2 processes.

    • Manuka AOR 13.2

      Yes, several times in last couple of days the site wouldn’t open or browser couldn’t find it. But it’s fine today.

  13. Michael 14

    Bernie Sanders has released his official plan to fight climate change, and it’s very good:


    • Manuka AOR 14.1

      This is excellent (Bernie Sanders’ Climate Change Plan). Thanks for the link. A very good reference.

      • savenz 14.1.1

        @ michael +100

        If only our opposition could put together real policies and detailed plans that actually say exactly what they will do when they get into power and why.

        This should be compulsory reading for the opposition in NZ on how to write up policy and not just on climate change!

        (in particular Labour)

        i.e. You need to actually have something real, rather than airy fairy words to get people to believe in a party and the words within the policy have to actually make sense and have a detailed action plan.

  14. Bill 15

    How serendipitous for the UK government and others going to war against the daesh that ‘The Guardian’ has now obtained blueprints on the planned state building of the self appointed caliphate. Now they can say they are at war with an almost state, which lends a smear of credibility and a veneer of legality to the bombing of, well…let’s face it, it’s just ‘people on the ground’ – men, boys, women, girls, old people, babies….


  15. Grindlebottom 16

    I’m not so sure this is a good idea.

    There is growing support for a day to officially remember the Land Wars, with Labour even opening the door to another public holiday.

    The New Zealand Wars were pretty complicated affairs but my pakeha forebears would’ve probably been among, or supported, the European settlers who killed Maori & stole and confiscated their land all around New Zealand. I have the feeling a New Zealand Wars Day would provoke a lot of mutual hostility rather than be treated as a respectful remembrance day.

    Any thoughts anyone?

    • Jenny Kirk 16.1

      Grindlebottom – Isn’t it about time that NZers learned what went on during the Land Wars, and why ?
      Its not taught in schools as far as I can make out – it wasn’t taught in my day, and it wasn’t taught to my sons – and we’ve had to find out for ourselves.
      And it might make some Pakeha realise just why Maori continue to raise grievances which go back decades.
      This is a commemmoration whose time has come – but of course ShonKey won’t have a bar of it.

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1

        National has done at least as good a job – if not a better job – of settling Treaty grievances in the last few years.

        • millsy

          Only because it dovetails in with National’s privatisation ideology.

          The treaty settlement process is the biggest privatisation programme in this country’s history, transfering billions of dollars to public assets and cash to tribal elites while single Maori mothers sleep in their cars with their newborn babies.

          And dont get me started about conservation land.

      • Grindlebottom 16.1.2

        I agree NZ history including the Land Wars should be taught in our schools Jenny. I’m surprised it still isn’t. I’d rather see that done than establish a New Zealand Land Wars commemoration day. Just maintaining Waitangi Day is a better idea.

    • maui 16.2

      I think this is good, if we had a better understanding of the colonisation of this country and its effects I think it would put us a few steps further down the road of a progressive country. It’s an opportunity for compassion from pakeha. These are the most important events that have happened in NZ’s modern history yet they’re largely forgotten, shame on us. We do history so poorly.

      The histories of those battles are very interesting in themselves, and if kids and adults knew what took place in their own town or city they might respect those places more, instead of doing stupid shit like building suburbia over them.

  16. Draco T Bastard 17

    The Swiss referendum on Sovereign Money

    The conventional wisdom, taught in textbooks of monetary economics, is that the government creates money, not banks. Furthermore, banks are financial intermediaries: they lend money which they gather as deposits. The reality is that the banks invent the money that they lend. This means that the banks, and not the government, are in control of the money supply in the economy. Bank creation of money acts in ways that are opposite to Keynesian prescriptions, and destabilise the economy.

    Time to change the conventional wisdom but the rich won’t like it.

  17. savenz 18

    “On November 20, the World Trade Organization (WTO) declared that dolphin-safe labels on cans of tuna are a barrier to trade that place the U.S. in violation of its treaty obligations. The U.S. must stop offering “dolphin-safe” labels or face punitive sanctions from Mexico. Analysts expect the government to cave.

    The case is a classic example of what globalization critics have warned of for years: that “free trade” agreements allow foreign corporations to force the repeal of laws that interfere with their profits, thereby gutting protections for consumers, workers and the environment. Observers warn that the soon-to-be implemented Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) contains the exact same provisions, and that more such forced repeals are soon to come.”


  18. Puckish Rogue 19


    Hopefully it’ll be a better rifle then what the guys and girls have now but whether its exactly whats needed only time will tell but its interesting switching from bullpup to conventional layout

    • Grindlebottom 19.1

      Shows up on Wikipedia as two main users – British Armed Forces and New Zealand Army.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Still leaves us open to supply problems when the shit hits the fan which it will, IMO, in the near future. The only solution to which being to make the weapons that our defence forces need in NZ from NZ resources.

      In other words, the NZ government should build the factories and do the R&D to produce them here. I guestimate that we could do it with a mere 10,000 people employed most of which would be in R&D.

      And, no, I don’t think it should be done by the private sector as I don’t think that the production of weapons should be done for profit at all.

  19. Whispering Kate 20

    I see that Key now decides who he answers questions to in question time in the House. In today’s session Andrew Little wished to put a question to the “Honourable John Key”. Andrew questioned Carter at the start of the session and wondered why he, listed as question 5 was now listed as putting the question to another Minister. Carter said under the speaker’s rules bla bla bla he was allowed to do this. Andrew then came back with another question to the speaker that he wished to ask the house to make the decision as he particularly wished to ask the PM the question – Carter said to stop wasting his time as it would ultimately come back to he, Carter to make the decision again anyway. When question 5 came up Andrew rose to his feet and said in not so many words to forget it that he was withdrawing the question.

    So now Key decides who he wishes to answer to with probably pesky questions. How much more is this government going to be allowed to get away with when sitting in the House? They are not even subtle any more and must think we all are a pack of dumb nuts and can get away with it because we will just lie down and put up with this shit. A revolution anyone???

    • CR 20.1

      Probably no great loss though, it’s pretty pointless asking Key anything if you want a genuine answer.
      After the dead cat rapists & ‘molesterers’ [sic] fiasco, it occurred to me that the combined opposition should just stop directing questions to the prime minister as he can’t be relied upon to answer without abusiveness.
      Who needs to put up with that when they’re just trying to do their job?
      Added bonus – being ignored would probably drive the attention seeking Key mad.

      • Whispering Kate 20.1.1

        You are so right, he is on the back foot always and defensive as well as abusive. A sign of lacking intelligence, where he obviously is berefit of knowledge and so deflects with either dead cats or blatant refusal to answer questions which will put him on the spot. God what an awful man he is. I wonder if other women see him in the same light. We are supposed to have the ability to be intuitive to suss out creeps but still he hangs in there. He didn’t do it for me from the first time he came on the scene and he is getting worse by the day.

      • b waghorn 20.1.2

        Interesting thought ,imagine if they just completely ignored key and directed all their questions at Collins instead.
        It would’nt take key long to start jumping up and down like a little boy going what about me.

  20. Morrissey 21

    Why do terrorists attack public health workers?

    San Bernardino mass murderers Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik deliberately targeted public health workers. —News.

    Targeting public health workers. These people are beneath contempt, surely. Where could they have got such a fiendish idea?

    What kind of monstrous fanatics….

    ….would deliberately….

    ….target hospitals…..

    ….and ambulances?

    • Grindlebottom 22.1

      Interesting OAB. From the article…

      Young New Zealand women are heading to Iraq and Syria with fears they are joining the droves of Jihadi brides.

      Security Intelligence Security director Rebecca Kitteridge revealed on Tuesday the numbers were on the rise and it was a big concern.

      Kitteridge was giving evidence to Parliament’s powerful intelligence and security committee, chaired by Prime Minister John Key.

      …”It’s something we haven’t seen before.”

      …Asked by Key if they were leaving for Iraq and Syria to become “Jihadi brides”, Kitteridge declined to comment.

      …The committee was told of 24 hour surveillance on some but a lack of evidence to charge them, despite concerns they were accessing radicalised material and talking about committing attacks.

      “A lot of them seem to be people who may have other problems in their life,” Kitteridge said.

      “It’s not your average person going out to work and happily married and raising kids… it’s a pattern of people who are kind of disengaged in some way with a productive life.”

      • One Anonymous Bloke 22.1.1

        numbers are on the rise

        From what to what? To where?

        Big Kurdish population in NZ. Just saying that perhaps the SIS, like other better funded “intelligence” “organisations”, may not be the best source nor judge of character.

        I want to see their workings, because their word ain’t worth shit.

        • Grindlebottom

          Well, yeah, numbers could’ve gone up from one or two to three. And it reads like anybody travelling back to their homeland is now suspect. But this bit was also interesting.

          …The committee was told of 24 hour surveillance on some but a lack of evidence to charge them, despite concerns they were accessing radicalised material and talking about committing attacks.

          I’m happy for surveillance to quietly continue OAB.

          I want to see their workings, because their word ain’t worth shit.

          Yeah, so do I but good luck to us with that. That’d be never no matter who in power.

          • Anne

            I’m happy for surveillance to quietly continue..

            Yes, I am too. But I would like to point out to Ms Kitteridge that if someone is NOT going out to work and happily married and raising kids… , it doesn’t follow they are therefore NOT an average person.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              “A lot of them seem to be people who may have other problems in their life,” Kitteridge said.

              I expect they made “bad choices”, because otherwise people might notice that right wing “economic” policies increase terrorism.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Run by people who if overseas experience is anything to go by, will prey upon vulnerable members of the community to manufacture cases they can bring to court.

            Surveillance isn’t “quiet”, Grindlebottom. It’s all-pervasive. It guards you while you sleep.

            Those who sacrifice privacy on the altar of security deserve neither. Where have I heard that before? The key to these issues is trust and cameraderie, not fear and panty-sniffing.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            PS: watch the video. The phrase “Jihadi Brides” plopped out of the Right Honourable John Key, Prime Minister’s mouth. Kitteridge didn’t verify it. Funnily enough, the headline implies that the things that plop out of the Prime Minister’s mouth are accurate.

            • Grindlebottom

              Yeah I know, I did, but that’s our crappy media: you know how they often cite a quote from Key as the headline when it later becomes obvious it was inaccurate or misleading.

              That article keeps growing. Every time I look at it the information has increased.

  21. Morrissey 23

    Professor flips out after student yawns loudly in class

    If someone yawns during the class you’re teaching, you can laugh it off and say something like “Sorry to wake you up.” Alternatively, there’s the option of going nuclear…

    Let me tell you something: my bad side is as bad as my pleasant side is pleasant. All right? Don’t push me that way. I like to keep things informal in here as much as possible, but understand where the difference between informal and impolite is. And I won’t tolerate impolite. If I hear ONE MORE of these overly loud yawns… GET UP AND WALK THE HELL OUT! YAWN OUTSIDE!! STAY OUTA CLASS, WHATEVER IT IS YA NEED TO DO TO GET OVER IT!! I WANNA KNOW WHY TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM DON’T FIND THE NEED TO DO THAT! And you should be asking yourself, ‘Why am I the one loser that has to do that when 220 other people KNOW BETTER?’ Don’t push me to this point again…..”


  22. Morrissey 24

    How much is the military paying Springsteen to play at its “Stand Up for Heroes” event?

    It was recently revealed that the reason those tedious yet disturbing military displays before American sports events are not done because the people who own NFL, NBA and MLB franchises are super-patriotic, but because the Pentagon pays them millions of dollars to wave huge flags and have jet-fighters fly over the stadia before the action begins.

    Presumably the Obama cultist Bruce Springsteen is receiving a fair whack to play this event….


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