Open mike 09/02/2025

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 9th, 2025 - 50 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

50 comments on “Open mike 09/02/2025 ”

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  1. Mac1 1
    9 February 2025 at 8:05 am

    Today let us honour Samuel Parnell who brought the idea of the 8 hour working day to Wellington on this day in 1840.

    He told a prospective employer, "There are twenty-four hours per day given us; eight of these should be for work, eight for sleep, and the remaining eight for recreation and in which for men to do what little things they want for themselves. I am ready to start to-morrow morning at eight o'clock, but it must be on these terms or none at all."

    https://www.facebook.com/workingclasshistory

    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/people/samuel-parnell

    Eight hour days and meat and three vegs. As a Farm worker unionist reported back home to England in the 1860s, New Zealand is a land of milk and honey. Honey bees were first introduced here in 1839 by one Mary Bumby.

    A wee lesson here on how ordinary folk can make significant changes for the good…..

    • SPC 1.1
      9 February 2025 at 8:23 am

      Labour should look at employment law and limit shift work requirement to where this is required. In the old times they would hire staff (or seek volunteers) for out of hours and weekend work (which was good for those who needed part-time or second jobs).

      • Mac1 1.1.1
        9 February 2025 at 8:33 am

        SPC, what current practice is it that you are aiming to address by limiting 'shift work requirement to where this is required'?

        • SPC 1.1.1.1
          9 February 2025 at 8:41 am

          The common requirement made by employers for employees to be willing to work shifts to get employment. They do this to avoid paying more than OT for evening and weekend work.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.2
      9 February 2025 at 10:00 am

      Yea a good Man. He and others had obviously had a guts full of being oppressed.

      Sadly…the oppression is returning big time. Will there be another Samuel Parnell ? Maybe comes the time, comes the Man/Woman…

      Just a small point, but Im not on facebook..never have been so that link doesnt work.

      Te Ara one for NZ …

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1p7/parnell-samuel-duncan

  2. SPC 2
    9 February 2025 at 8:18 am

    Submissions to the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill end on 13 February.

    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/make-a-submission/document/54SCJUST_SCF_BDB818E0-3135-4D91-E700-08DD18052784/crimes-legislation-stalking-and-harassment-amendment

    The police response to a modern form of stalking is here.

    Such cases indicate a range of areas where the legislation proposed is a bit limited – the film The Invisible Man is an expose of modern tech methodology and the gaslighting of women who make complaints because police are out of touch.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm21j341m31o

    • Karolyn_IS 2.1
      9 February 2025 at 10:07 am

      Thanks for the links.

      I guess this part of the Bill may be a problem in relation to the BBC cited case in Aussie, if Section (1) (b) is necessary for a conviction:

      "(1)

      For the purposes of section 216Q, a person (person A) stalks and harasses another person (person B) if person A—

      (a) engages in a pattern of behaviour that is directed at person B by doing any specified act to person B on at least 3 separate occasions within a period of 12 months; and

      (b) engages in that pattern of behaviour knowing that it is likely to cause fear or distress to person B."

      The perp in the BBC article created deep fake porn images using the image of a woman he knows, without her consent or knowledge. He claims:

      "Andy told the court that creating the images had felt "empowering" as "an outlet" for a "dark" part of his psyche, but that he didn't think they would cause real harm."

      However, such a use of someone's image for porn would not be covered by the defences allowed in the Bill, which says,

      "It is a defence to a charge under subsection (1) if person A proves that they engaged in their behaviour—

      (a) for a lawful purpose; or

      (b) with a reasonable excuse; or

      (c) in the public interest."

      Wouldn't such a deep fake use of an image be covered by this clause in the Bill,

      "2) A specified act may be done by or through any means whatsoever (for example, tracking devices, digital applications, spyware, drones, or the use of artificial intelligence)."

  3. SPC 3
    9 February 2025 at 8:28 am

    Paddy Gower wants New Zealand to be a safe haven for moguls.

    Why, because rich people are more important than others?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360573267/paddy-gower-not-all-moguls-are-musk-lets-roll-out-red-carpet

    Talk about being in synch with the government of the day ideology.

    Concern for landlords who are sorted. Allowing foreign investor buy in so locals can sell coastal/river and lakeside property for larger untaxed CG.

  4. Adrian 4
    9 February 2025 at 10:12 am

    According to the Herald this morning Seymour wrote a 1012 word letter vouching for Polkingthorne to the Auckland District Police Commander Karen Malthus while the investigation was on-going. There is no way he is in any way fit to be acting PM. The Coward Luxon will of course imitate your dog after he has shit on the carpet… nothing to see here while gazing off into the distance.

  5. PsyclingLeft.Always 5
    9 February 2025 at 10:13 am

    Better late than never? Good things take time? Chelsea, putting lead in your sugar ! In 2021..called to account 2025

    Chelsea Sugar fined over 2021 lead contamination

    Seems there were warnings and recalls at the time? I remember the lack of brown sugar. However reading the link i'm kinda shaken by Chelsea's wilful ignorance.

    The sugar had been freighted to New Zealand from Queensland aboard cargo ship the Rin Treasure in September 2021. On its previous voyage, the ship had carried metal sulphide concentrates (zinc and lead).

    The wilful part..

    Before choosing the vessel, Chelsea Sugar had been advised that the Rin Treasure had failed a survey report and was not fit to transport bulk sugar. Despite a cleanliness report, the cleaning of the ship's hold was not effective, leading to the sugar's contamination.

    "New Zealand Sugar Company knew what its responsibilities were to consumers – ensuring the safety and suitability of its products and managing any potential risk to consumers," Arbuckle said.

    "It failed to properly detect the extent of lead contamination until after the imported sugar had been used in production.

    "Offending at this scale is rare, and the court's sentence today sends a strong message that it will not be tolerated."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/541233/chelsea-sugar-fined-over-2021-lead-contamination

    In NZ we def need Consumer watchdogs…..

  6. SPC 6
    9 February 2025 at 11:13 am

    Trump recognises white South Africans farmers as oppressed (has not noted the oppression of the women of Afghanistan?) and offers them refugee status.

    Those in Gaza are supposed to leave and go somewhere "Arab".

    Those in SA have made the Gaza resident response.

    On Saturday (Sunday NZT), two of the most prominent gy roups representing Afrikaners said they would not be taking up Trump's offer of resettlement in the US.

    “Our members work here, and want to stay here, and they are going to stay here,” said Dirk Hermann, chief executive of the Afrikaner trade union Solidarity, which says it represents around 2 million people.

    “We are committed to build a future here. We are not going anywhere.”

    At the same press conference, Kallie Kriel, the CEO of the Afrikaner lobby group AfriForum, said: “We have to state categorically: We don’t want to move elsewhere.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360574629/donald-trump-says-some-white-south-africans-are-being-oppressed-and-could-be-resettled-us-they-say

    • SPC 6.1
      9 February 2025 at 11:37 am

      It might indicate that USAID now within State is going after affirmative action worldwide – little wonder the US left the UNHRC.

  7. SPC 7
    9 February 2025 at 11:47 am

    Damien Grant has an experience of the living under a regime. Such as prison or places of institutional care, which he tries to connect to a rules based order compliance of professional bodies. When a rules based order might prevent the abuse of power concerned in those silos of society.

    Which he is trying to delegitimise based (all while his beloved ACT is seeking to imprison more, impose Compass on local schools and downgrade the Cook Strait to a cheap bridge road) on cultural awareness compliance.

    But I suppose the empathy for another individual is the libertarian way of remaining human in our society.

    DG survived his own individual case within his “profession” and presumably remains compliant within it.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360573233/damien-grant-how-real-estate-agent-lost-her-career-over-90-minute-course

    • Psycho Milt 7.1
      9 February 2025 at 1:09 pm

      His case seemed pretty compelling to me. Some people shouldn't be given authority over others, as they'll abuse it. I haven't served a prison sentence myself, but it seems a likely environment to attract such people, and the real estate agent case looks like a pretty clear example of the problem. The idea that people who reject our beliefs must be punished should not be encouraged.

      • SPC 7.1.1
        9 February 2025 at 1:31 pm

        Really? A professionals standards body would have removed staff who abused power in the prison silo.

        • Psycho Milt 7.1.1.1
          9 February 2025 at 5:04 pm

          You have a lot more confidence in such bodies than I do! And I'm a member of one.

      • mpledger 7.1.2
        9 February 2025 at 3:26 pm

        A professional body is allowed to set standard for it's members. Some of those standard may be around continuing education. The real estate agent didn't want to do a 90 minute class about very basic Maori culture. Noone is asking her to change her opinions or world view, all that is being asked of her is to be informed. It's seems very silly (and very rude) to make that a hill to die on. But that's her choice and in a free society, people are allowed to make dumb choices that harm noone but themselves.

        • Psycho Milt 7.1.2.1
          9 February 2025 at 5:11 pm

          It's seems very silly (and very rude) to make that a hill to die on.

          How true. If you think about it a bit more, you might figure out that Grant's OP is about the REA making a trivial issue a hill that can prove fatal to people with integrity. One day the current orthodoxy may not be one that you favour, so be careful what you wish for.

          • bwaghorn 7.1.2.1.1
            9 February 2025 at 5:45 pm

            How many generations do us immergrants have to be here before we're allowed to claim this country as our home?

          • mpledger 7.1.2.1.2
            10 February 2025 at 1:51 pm

            I may not agree with the orthodoxy but there is no harm to me in listening to a 90 minute course on it. I can sit there and be informed and still leave and disagree with it all.

        • David 7.1.2.2
          9 February 2025 at 6:07 pm

          I’ve done very similar CPD courses, some are mildly interesting, others more so. This one about maori culture may well be interesting and very useful for realestate agents.

          Those of us who are required to do these courses, as a regulatory requirement, choose to work in industries where that is a requirement. I’d have felt some sympathy for her, until she brought her “Christianity” into it. Learning about another culture, especially the indigenous culture of New Zealand, has nothing to do with religion. I doubt this woman would have had a hissy fit if she had Chinese clients looking for a house with good Feng Shui.

          • Graeme 7.1.2.2.1
            9 February 2025 at 9:38 pm

            I'm left wondering how she got on with the LBGT+ CPD course?

            That market is a very significant in my part of the motu and all agents have to be completely comfortable interacting with the sector.

            • David 7.1.2.2.1.1
              10 February 2025 at 9:16 am

              I haven’t come across any LGBT… CPD courses, as it’s not cultural I would guess. These courses are about understanding a particular culture, not differing sub-cultures. One would expect realestate agents are dealing with grown adults.

            • mpledger 7.1.2.2.1.2
              10 February 2025 at 1:47 pm

              Do LBGT+ people think about, and use, land and housing differently to the other cultural groups they belong to? I wouldn’t have thought so but if it's a marked difference then why not?

    • Shanreagh 7.2
      9 February 2025 at 1:24 pm

      I would have thought that Real Estate, along with the medical sphere, would have been the areas most likely to need and benefit from training in the Maori world view. Land is intrinsically linked, as is health, to Maori.

      The pepeha people are encouraged to recite when introducing themselves often references physical things like rivers and mountains to place themselves within the community

      ‘Pepeha is a way of introducing yourself in Māori. It tells people who you are by sharing your connections with the people and places that are important to you.’

      https://www.facebook.com/feelslikehomebro/photos/everyone-has-a-pepeha-%EF%B8%8Fpepeha-is-a-way-of-introducing-yourself-in-m%C4%81ori-it-tells/3170471966415596/?_rdr

      I usually acknowledge the local iwi. I know through family connections they would be able to ‘place’ me as a proud honorary member.

  8. Graeme 8
    9 February 2025 at 12:35 pm

    No Thursday Mr Luxon went to Ōnuku to fulfil his Waitangi Day responsibilities. Maybe he expected an easier reception, doubt we'll ever know. If so it didn’t go to plan.

    He gave a speech highlighting the long and quite positive relationship between Ngåi Tahu and the National Party, Ngåi Tahu's treaty settlement was very much a National endeavour, and Jenny Shipley delivered the Crown apology at the same place, and spoke at about National's desire to grow the economy.

    Justin Tipa, Ngāi Tahu Kaiwhakahaere, or chairman, replied, acknowledging their past good relationship, but noting that the relationship was overmuch on the rocks and something had to be done to get things on track.

    … a National Party that fails to take leadership on matters of fundamental importance to the identity of our nation is not worthy of its own name.

    … our major parties are struggling to articulate a political vision that builds on the distinct character of the New Zealand nation—one that people can embrace with confidence and commitment.

    So instead, we get an ACT party neoliberal thought experiment, posing as a source of moral principle and national unity.

    …If our country continues to divide and fragment, we will lose the trust and stability—we will lose the fundamental good faith—that makes economic growth and prosperity possible in the first place.

    Justin Tipa is a very good orator and this speech was well written and delivered. Luxon was sitting just to his left and below the lecturn, either they gave him a dodgy chair or some of the content wasn't what he wanted to hear.

    The RNZ article is a good read and links to all Luxon's speech, Tipa's has a few technical issues but is in full in the Ngåi Tahu link, along with a transcript. It's very worth a read.

    Oh, and Ngåi Tahu have declared war on National's freshwater policies are in court next week seeking full input on freshwater policy and management in their area, in accordance with their Settlement Act. Could be fun, they generally don't loose.

  9. SPC 9
    9 February 2025 at 4:19 pm

    There is an Active Investor Visa.

    • Be of good health
    • Be of good character
    • Demonstrate English language ability
    • Provide police certificates from countries you are a citizen of or have lived in for 12 months or more in the last 10 years
    • Provide evidence of how you earned your investment funds

    The C of C's nominal leader is inviting other sorted people to come on over.

    The Government is relaxing immigration settings to encourage wealthy foreigners to invest in New Zealand businesses.

    Speaking from Auckland today, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon detailed changes to the Active Investor Plus (AIP) visa category, creating two “simplified” investment categories that will replace its “complex weighting system”.

    (These being time here and money amount for period terms) …

    One will be a growth category that is applied to those making “higher-risk investments”, including those directly in local businesses. It will require a minimum investment of $5 million for a period of at least three years.

    Successful applicants in the growth category would have to spend a minimum of 21 days in New Zealand.

    The second is a new “balanced” category, which focuses on mixed investment and required a minimum spend of $10m over five years.

    Those under the balanced category would have to spend 105 days in New Zealand but could be given reductions if they went over and above the $10m base investment.

    Several other changes have been made, including stripping away the visa’s English language requirement, which demanded applicants have an English language background. Luxon today claimed the requirement had scared off many potential investors in recent years.

    Meh, the be of good character and provide evidence of how you earned your investment funds*** – and questions about whether they were acting on behalf of associates*** more likely.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxon-to-announce-another-economic-growth-themed-policy-in-auckland/VA7SZ74WEJCGRFUTHVJVGCQE3U/

  10. Ad 10
    9 February 2025 at 4:25 pm

    Very sorry to hear of the padding of poet Brian Turner of Oturehua.

  11. Joe90 11
    9 February 2025 at 5:38 pm

    Halfwit reckons genetically altered animals used in researching human disease are transgender.

    /

    Last year, $10 million in taxpayer money was spent creating transgender animals, a study by the White Coat Waste Project revealed.

    Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., laid out the misuse of taxpayer money funding "gender-affirming care" for animals during opening remarks at a subcommittee hearing Thursday. The hearing, "Transgender Lab Rats and Poisoned Puppies: Oversight of Taxpayer Funded Animal Cruelty," featured a witness from the White Coat Waste Project.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/10m-taxpayer-funds-spent-creating-221154657.html

    • tWig 11.1
      9 February 2025 at 7:33 pm

      Misreading transgenetic for transgender.

      It's horrifying the removal of arts and research funding world-wide, including in NZ.

      Our world is becoming a narrower, less creative space.

  12. SPC 12
    9 February 2025 at 7:58 pm

    sHANE tE pOU, also known as Shane Te Pou, writes about the comparative failure of private delivery systems the public is dependent on (poor societal outcomes in health , and energy sectors).

    And other risk, such as need for bail outs.

    This as the government claims it needs to go down that ideological path of choice in term 2, because it is missing all of its budget targets.

    In sport, such failure means replacement.

    https://archive.li/HDNfL#selection-4925.0-4925.289v

  13. joe90 13
    9 February 2025 at 9:17 pm

    If you were wondering why the US is the only country in the world where cattle herds are infected with H5N1.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/541105/second-bird-flu-strain-found-in-us-dairy-cattle-authorities-say

    Fears are growing that the H5N1 outbreak among cattle in the United States could have been caused by contaminated animal feed.

    In contrast to Britain and Europe, American farmers are still allowed to feed cattle and other farm animals ground-up waste from other animals including birds.

    […]

    Experts fear that H5N1, which was only first detected in cows a few weeks ago, may have been transmitted through a type of cattle feed called “poultry litter” – a mix of poultry excreta, spilled feed, feathers, and other waste scraped from the floors of industrial chicken and turkey production plants.

    In the UK and EU, feeding cows proteins from other animals has been tightly regulated since the outbreak of BSE – or ‘mad cow disease’ – 30 years ago.

    Experts are unsure but fear it could be the poultry litter feed used in the US that has passed the virus to cattle.

    “In the US, the feeding of poultry litter to beef cows is a known factor in the cause of botulism in cattle, and is a risk in the case of H5N1,” said Dr Steve Van Winden, Associate Professor in Population Medicine at the Royal Veterinary College.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chicken-waste-fed-to-cattle-may-be-behind-bird-flu-outbreak/