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Open mike 09/03/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 9th, 2022 - 200 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

200 comments on “Open mike 09/03/2022 ”

  1. pat 1

    "Theres no such thing as a free lunch"

    or so the saying goes…what does that mean to you?

    • Molly 1.1

      Depends on context:

      1. Somewhere, someone, somehow is paying.

      2. You've taken on an obligation for reciprocity that at some point will have to be discharged.

    • Ad 1.2

      It means they don't know the policies of this Labour government very well.

      Labour has delivered hundreds of thousands of free lunches per day for several years now.

  2. Ad 2

    At what price per litre of 91 is continuing an oil embargo of Russian oil still a good idea?

    $2.80? $3? $3.50? $5?

    We're now in an inflation v morality war

    • Subliminal 2.1

      Im not sure that we as a nation have much choice. If our FM toned down the rhetoric and we got ourselves off the Russian list of unfriendly nations could we really expect to be able to buy cheap Russian oil? We would then face sanctions ourselves.

      Can we nationalise our oil and gas reserves? Would this be enough? As things stand at present the only real immediate answer is to understand that the resources in your country are now absolutely a nations primary source for survival. Even the aluminium smelter should now be looked at as a national resource as aluminium prices rise.

      The extraordinary thing is that the US still seems to think that money has some sort of intrinsic value divorced from reality. They really seem to think that a nation that is a net energy exporter can be brought to its knees by cutting it off from Swift. It didnt work for Iran. With Russia it will blow up in their face.

      Steering a path through this will be very challenging. We have already seen with covid how difficult national unity for the public good is but also that we are one of the better nations at getting this right. It really is time to start looking at what we can do for ourselves and our immediate neighbours in the Pacific. If we can get actual physical help from larger nations we should be prepared to look at it on a case by case basis. We don't indulge in continual hand wringing about US wars of aggression every time we engage with them and should be prepared to do the same with Russia and China in any offers of help in especially energy infrastructure. If we want pumped hydro, we could talk to them about help, or Russia or Iran to upgrade a nationalised Marsden Point? Its definitely time to think outside the box. We will need all the help we can get.

      • Ad 2.1.1

        "We don't indulge in continual hand wringing about US wars of aggression every time we engage with them and should be prepared to do the same with Russia and China in any offers of help in especially energy infrastructure."

        We engage in voluminous hand wringing about US wars of aggression particularly when we are asked to join them. As we should.

        "If we want pumped hydro, we could talk to them about help, or Russia or Iran to upgrade a nationalised Marsden Point?"

        For pumped hydro I would turn to Australian and Irish examples that have been operational for a while.

        I certainly agree that this is asking the right questions about our own energy resilience at the right time.

        Hearing Luxon this morning saying the "ute tax" will go because there are no current electric alternatives in-market is just folly.

        Smart companies should use this war to price shifting their whole fleets much faster.

        Companies like rentals, construction and taxis who are less oil dependent are going to be sitting pretty while the rest in their combustion engines are screaming.

        It’s a brutal mechanism but 91 Petrol is the climate change lever we all need.

        • Subliminal

          It would be a climate change mechanism if we all had the luxury of being able to afford to move over to electric, work local or from home. But most don't so the more likely scenario is an uplift in social unrest. Even Germany has been unable to resist the primacy of fossil fuel energy, the lack of which will drive right wing nationalism. If we don't come up with an immediate answer to rising fuel costs while we work on future energy shifts then it is likely that social cohesion will break down. Russia understands this and it is part of their decision process on why now is a good time. They may not have all the bells and whistles but will have the social cohesion that abundent energy resources bring. How are we going to mitigate this or are the recent scenes in Wellington just a gentle rehersal on the future?

          • Ad

            Yes it will be the corporate fleets, taxis, local government, and central government Departments that will be able to put in orders for electric vehicles – which in turn starts a proper secondary market for the majority of New Zealanders. We still haven't seen enough government procurement support for this.

            It was in 2019 that nearly 3% of the entire population of New Zealand marched up and down the country seeking much stronger action for climate change.

            In May this year the full plan is supposed to come out that shows how we will fulfill that promise.

            So May would be a really good time for those who want more to start preparing the kind of creative protest that got the 2021 tractor protest so much airtime.

            If we get a petrol spike to $4 the political pressure from consumers to do less will be hard to resist – and that is when the government will need its supporters the most.

            • The Al1en

              Absolute environmental madness for government to invest in whole fleets of electric vehicles, with all the carbon used to create them, when there are hundreds of thousands of good quality, serviceable vehicles, ripe for conversion.

              If the money is there for a fleet, it's more than there to get deals on batteries, engines and motors and train the people to do it. If you want trickle down to affect us poor people, get the tech and process sorted and cheap enough for the countries top 10 best selling models by testing on the rich pricks and let us have at it. Got to better than waiting for new electric fleets to age, decay, and be passed on to the little people.

              If you want to be all radical and revolutionary, you could keep it all in house and make parts with home grown aluminium from Tiwai, and when were done and gas free, mothball it.

    • Barfly 2.2

      I didn't realise it but apparently NZ was importing approx 15% of fuel from Russia this was almost totally oil for refining – with the refinery scheduled to close in April I would imagine forward contracts for refined fuel would already be in place I believe in my ferreting around that I saw that of our imports of fuel from Russia only about 1% was refined product. I would anticipate that our forward contracts for refined fuel would have barely included any from Russia – NZ will certainly be paying a lot more for it's fuel due to the international market conditions but any NZ ban on Russian product I think would be mainly symbolic. Any thoughts Ad?

      • Ad 2.2.1

        I don't know enough about New Zealand fuel importing to comment specifically.

        I do see though that we are going through a spike that will last at least as long as the Yom Kippur War, which started off the Muldoon government seeking as much energy independence as possible.

        I want to see the petrol price rise debated in Parliament as soon as possible, so that Dr Woods can start revealing more plans than simply her confidence in forward contracts out of Singapore. The Comm Comm already went through the fuel company books two years ago and made fuck-all difference.

        Pretty weird to see the future rushing at us when we're clearly not ready.

        • Barfly

          Government revenue from fuel excise is around 2 billion per year at an appropriate point politically they could announce a halving of the excise to "assist the country in dealing with the disruption caused by worldwide issues" or doubtlessly some better constructed phrase to maximise the political benefit of their actions cost 1 billion per annum.

          Why not eliminate all the excise? Leave yourself the option so that you actually have an option.

          When National demands all excise is removed …"but roading still has to be paid for and it is important for an element of the user paying to remain. Of course this remains an exercisable option if the international oil market……"

          When the trucking lobby demands a subsidy for diesel costs….. " unfortunately in New Zealand the general public has been subsidising the trucking industry already for many years as the heavy transport industry does not and has not paid their fair share of roading costs. We are announcing a commission to investigate the fairest structure of revenue collection for roading costs going forward….."

          Perhaps develop (or accelerate already existing plans for) vehicle charging network in NZ

          Perhaps a levy on all new and used imports with solely ICE power and apply that levy to subsidise new and used electric and hybrid vehicle imports.

          Perhaps embracing Efeso Collins plan for free public transport in Auckland – reducing the congestion costs to the economy in Auckland and the reduction in costs for the less well off would likely make it a winner from the economic point of view.

          The government is hopefully looking at ideas like these as well as better measures thought of by people well paid to develop them.

          I agree that the future is rushing at us

    • aj 2.3

      Ad at sparrow fart: “We’re now in an inflation v morality war”

      Money trumps morality. That's capitalism.

      Michael Hudson has written a sobering article on the economic consequences of recent events

      Empires often follow the course of a Greek tragedy, bringing about precisely the fate that they sought to avoid. That certainly is the case with the American Empire as it dismantles itself in not-so-slow motion.

      The basic assumption of economic and diplomatic forecasting is that every country will act in its own self-interest. Such reasoning is of no help in today’s world. Observers across the political spectrum are using phrases like “shooting themselves in their own foot” to describe U.S. diplomatic confrontation with Russia and allies alike.

      The American Empire Self-Destructs

      But nobody thought that it would happen this fast


    • adam 2.4

      Liking it. Bring on the bigger oil prices, time it was what it really cost us all to burn carbon.

      • weka 2.4.1

        yep. And best we get on with recreating society so that we don't get inundated with the fall out from that. Just transition.

        • adam

          There will be no transition, to many people are addicted to this life style.

          I'm with those who say there will be a complete breakdown of the current system by 2030. We are fast running out of the ability to maintain this stupidity.

    • McFlock 2.5

      I prefer boycotting stuff I wasn't going to use anyway.

    • Poission 2.6

      We're now in an inflation v morality war

      Well unsustainable policy from the government ie policy for biofuels was one of the main contributing factor in the food riots and arab spring.Here it was the underlying forcing beneath speculative bubbles and bursts.

      “The Sustainable Biofuels Mandate will prevent around one million tonnes of emissions from cars, trucks, trains and ships over the next three years and up to 10 million tonnes by 2035 to help us meet our climate commitments.




  3. Cricklewood 3

    Three weeks in and we're so short of nurses that we are now talking about having covid positive nurses back on wards, on the same day we're told that rest during infection is the best way to avoid long covid… doesnt make much sense does it, basically asking nurses to take an even bigger risk in sacrificing their long term health.

    Perhaps we should be asking those unvaxxed nurses if they'd like to come back to work please…

    • Treetop 3.1

      Not knowing how long it is going to take for the Covid wave to peak and then drop is also a concern for nurses.

    • Jenny how to get there 3.2

      Not to mention the dangers of viral load.

      Healthcare Workers Are 7 Times More Likely To Develop Severe COVID-19

      Why Healthcare Workers Are at Higher Risk

      It likely comes down to exposure, Richard Watkins, MD, an infectious disease physician and and associate professor of internal medicine at the Northeast Ohio Medical University, tells Verywell. Healthcare workers have “higher levels of viral exposure” and are “in close contact with infected patients,” he points out.


  4. Peter 4

    It certainly poses some questions about 'sense.' Just like making sense of unvaxxed nurses.

    They'd be administering medication to patients and carrying out procedures with the air of, "Trust me, I know what I'm doing. Trust me, I know exactly what's in this, how it was arrived at, all about the company that made it, and how your body is going to respond to it."

    • DB Brown 4.1

      Much like you when you used your computer just now. Vast knowledge of computer science, physics, math, and micro-engineering. Or would you even turn it on – dilemma!

      Well done, much impressed.

      • Muttonbird 4.1.1

        But you have to train to be a nurse, you don't have to train to use a computer.

        The concern about unvaxxed nurses is they will, in that environment, inevitably and quickly become the cared-for, rather than the carers.

        • DB Brown

          That post was unclear at best. I did ponder, after my ten minutes was up, if I'd interpreted it wrong.

          I agree. Unvaxed nurses have no place in hospitals or any public facing role. But we all know the cliche by now, unprecedented times, aye.

          We don't see it, but if you talk to public facing medical workers, it's really hard and has been for some time. Not just the increased work and work requirements, but the increase in crazy they're having to deal with. Putting unvaxed colleagues in that environment adds insult to injury.

          Has there being a noticeable rise in crazy here?

          • Robert Guyton


          • Barfly

            oh hell yes

            • DB Brown

              "Oh hell yes"

              That is unfortunate. A small, but SOO vocal, group.

              At least we can laugh.

              Groundswell have been quiet lately. Hope they're not in Waiouru pinching tanks.

          • gsays

            If by crazy, you mean: othering, simplifying complex issues with pejoratives, deliberate misrepresenting of someone’s position then hell yes. Off the scale.

            • Shanreagh

              So rather than contribute to the discussion we have this non sequitur.

              Why do you think it would be a good policy to employ unvaccinated nurses in front facing roles?

              I agree. Unvaxed nurses have no place in hospitals or any public facing role. But we all know the cliche by now, unprecedented times, aye.

              We don't see it, but if you talk to public facing medical workers, it's really hard and has been for some time. Not just the increased work and work requirements, but the increase in crazy they're having to deal with. Putting unvaxed colleagues in that environment adds insult to injury.

              How are unvaccinated nurses supposed to function effectively and with the respect of their colleagues when they are not taking basic steps to protect themselves and others?

              Crazy is all the ideas around for not having the vaccinations that are based on 'woo' and not medical reasons. I have absolutely no problem with people not having the vaccination if it is medically advised not to. Asking us to respect a decision based on

              'doan wanna'

              is a bit much.

              Then there are the multitude of CTs that are advanced to 'rationalise/justify' a decision. Why do you defend these and tried to shift the opprobrium onto those who call them out? ie call them out by commonplace references, shorthand to the type of thinking behind them.

              I am sure that if I had made up my mind not to have the vax for medical purposes or because I was troubled by the mRNA aspect there is no way in the world I would be allying myself with people whose reasons are because of 5G trackers, magnets, Aids or Covid giving especially if my concerns were related to the mRNA aspect. We have alternatives to this now.

              You obviously did not read my reply to your previous posts about people being nasty, according to you. Plus another from me and one from Incognito

              Real protestors do not burn kids playgrounds

              • Molly

                Until the vaccines were available, medical staff around the globe developed protocols to minimise infection.

                We need to balance the success of such protocols against the need for medical personnel.

                (Don't have either of those factors quantified, but I think that's the question that should be asked, and re-asked, as demand grows and available medical resources/personnel dwindle).

        • Macro

          But you have to train to be a nurse, you don't have to train to use a computer.

          Oh bugger! All those years spent in teaching computer science – a complete an utter waste of time.

          • Muttonbird

            You definitely have to train to teach about and fix them.

            • McFlock

              That's a tiny part of computer science.

              It's actually a pretty good analogy – any numpty can turn on a computer and work a desktop with a given margin for error, just like any numpty can change sheets or bandage a wound with a given margin for error.

              But managing an ICU bed? Knowing when to call a doctor before all the alarms start going off? Administering drugs properly, recognising errors or drug interactions that dr and pharmacy might have missed? With someone who feels they can pick and choose which protocols they should follow because their own research overrules the specialist guidelines?

              Yeah, that's like a computer progammer who thinks a b-tree is the only way to store data or insists on using deprecated library modules. Sooner or later it will end in tears.

        • Anker

          i commented here a while ago that they should never have terminated nurses employment for not being vaxxed. I made some suggestions about how these nurses might be redeployed to non contact roles, freeing up other nurses to be on the front line.

          I think the situation is so desperate for nurses now, the unvaxxed should be re-instated and have daily rapid anti gen testing before and even during shifts. Many of these nurses will be youngish and fit and probably won't get omicron badly, then will recover. Given nurses with covid are needed to continue to keep the hospitals functioning, what difference is it going to make having an unvaxxed nurse working?

          • joe90

            I think the situation is so desperate for nurses now, the unvaxxed should be re-instated and have daily rapid anti gen testing before and even during shifts

            RAT inaccuracy during the early days of infection heightens the risk of having having infectious staff working.


    • pat 4.2

      Despite the training the medical profession is as prone to poor decision making as any other group.


  5. Dennis Frank 5

    Several of those leading the scientific explanation of the pandemic in our media are principle investigators for this org: https://www.tepunahamatatini.ac.nz/about-us/




    Hosted by the University of Auckland, it formed to coordinate experts with a grasp of the science of complexity, to provide insights into how it elucidates the interactions between ourselves and our world.

    Here's an example of how it demonstrates relevance:

    The Russian invasion of Ukraine is one of the two dominant topics in New Zealand anti-vax forums, a disinformation expert says, and the discussion is uniformly pro-Putin. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nz-anti-vaxxers-fall-for-tsunami-of-russian-disinformation

    "All of the people who are part of [New Zealand's misinformation community] are now proposing and promoting a very pro-Kremlin content frame. The second-greatest signature when the protest was on – which is quite extraordinary really, when you think about it – apart from what was happening in front of the Beehive, was Ukraine."

    Sanjana Hattotuwa, who monitors more than 100 Telegram channels and dozens of Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and Twitter accounts run by New Zealand's motley anti-vax movement on a daily basis for Te Pūnaha Matatini, told Newsroom the rapid emergence of Ukraine as a major narrative is like nothing he's seen before.

    "RT News has distribution channels on Telegram, which are in the hundreds of thousands, and it has a global ecology that amplifies it to hundreds of thousands more," Hattotuwa said.

    These intertwined disinformation and misinformation networks have also formed something of an ouroboros, with the Russian government now amplifying conspiracy theories from the QAnon and anti-vax fringe on its own official channels.

    For example, a conspiracy theory which falsely posits Russia invaded Ukraine to take out US-run bioweapons labs developing the next pandemic pathogen is being embraced by Russia. On Monday, Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted that Russian forces had found evidence of a "military-biological programme" financed by the United States Department of Defense.

    • Dennis Frank 5.1

      The big picture view derives from ecology.

      Ecology is the study of the relationships between living organisms, including humans, and their physical environment. Ecology considers organisms at the individual, population, community, ecosystems, and biosphere level.
      The word "ecology" ("Ökologie") was coined in 1866 by the German scientist Ernst Haeckel, and it became a rigorous science in the late 19th century.

      So whereas economics provides a world-view based on money, ecology gives us a world-view based on how nature works. That's why politics and governance is based on economics. The political left & right have always agreed that money is more important than nature – which is why Green politics had to be neither left nor right.

      Memes are catchy, and informational memes aren't necessarily more contagious than disinformational memes. Social media is an encompassing arena containing a multitude of component social ecosystems (networks) made vibrant via the interflow of infectious memes. As self-organising systems, these will learn to moderate the toxic effects of disinfo to ensure collective survival and health. Or they won't, and will either die or get warped by an uncontrolled infection.

      So you can see how social media challenges us to transcend the habitual prioritisation of economics in our political focus, lest we get taken out by toxic invader memes. Just another form of pollution to worry about…

    • DB Brown 5.2

      "Uniformly pro-Putin"

      Of course they are. They've got their heads so far up their own asses their only means of taking in information is if it is diametrically opposed to common narrative.

  6. Jenny how to get there 6

    It's All About Trust

    We have been lucky to have a government we can trust during this pandemic

    The difference in the death rate in Hong Kong pop. 7 mil. compared to New Zealand pop. 5mil. is dramatic, where trust in the government is low.

    Many have put it down to distrust of the Communist government of Hong Kong by the elderly.

    How NZ is avoiding the Omicron 'perfect storm' that's killing hundreds in Hong Kong

    Chris Hyde19:19, Mar 04 2022

    It's all about leadership.
    We have been lucky to have a government we can trust during the pandemic. In my opinion, more than anything else majority trust in the leadership of New Zealand's Left of Centre government has helped keep this country's death rate from covid-19 relatively low.

  7. DB Brown 7

    Those MIGs from Poland (all of Poland's MIGs) are going to get delivered to Ukraine. A couple of dozen or more. They gave them to US so US can deliver them thereby fudging the rules around NATO involvement?

    I'm not sure Putin's going to see Poland as an innocent party here. But really, screw that guy.


  8. Dennis Frank 8

    Stuck Russian convoy has grown somewhat:

    The extended 60-kilometre parade of Russian armoured vehicles, tanks and towed artillery headed from the north on a path towards Kyiv has both alarmed and befuddled watchers of this expanding war. It's not just its sheer size. It's also because that for days, it has not appreciably been moving.

    US officials attribute the apparent stall in part to logistical failures on the Russian side, including as a result of food and fuel shortages, that have slowed Moscow's advance through various parts of the country.

    “Our assessment is that it's largely meant for resupply – but I can't rule out that there aren't combat vehicles,” Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Monday. “We can't even say that it's all one convoy and not several.”

    Still, the convoy's progress – or lack thereof – continues to capture popular fascination, thanks to a steady stream of satellite images and video recorded and disseminated by Maxar Technologies, a space technology and intelligence company.

    The images have put the business of tracking Russian supply lines, normally the occupation of secretive government agencies, into the public sphere, making them staples of TV news broadcasts and inspiring armchair generals around the world to offer their advice on how to attack the column.

    “I call that 40-mile convoy, by the way, the biggest, fattest target in Ukraine,” retired Navy admiral James Stavridis, who previously led NATO forces as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, said on MSNBC. https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300535768/mysteries-hide-within-the-seemingly-stuck-russian-convoy

    • Subliminal 8.1

      Stuck or stopped? And if stopped why stopped? First, a stopped convoy of this size shows the absolute dominance in the air and on the land of Russian forces. Second, a stopped convoy of this size demonstrates a possible destructive scenario while allowing those that want to leave to do so. The more people that leave the city, the more likely either surrender without fighting or at least fighting that lessens civilian casualties.

    • Jenny how to get there 8.2

      Just one daisy cutter bomb should do it.


      Will one of these be the West’s next export to the Ukraine?

  9. weka 9

    Yes, women are still and increasingly fucked off about having our words and concepts suppressed and being told to shut the fuck up.

    JKR on fire this week. International Women’s Day

    • weka 9.1

      Transcript of that part of the interview where the Labour MP apparently says that the definition of ‘woman’ changes depending on which legislation you are referring to at the time 🤡

      long past time to sort this mess out.

      • weka 9.1.1

        • Gypsy

          Unbelievable. A major political party in a modern democracy who can’t define “woman”. When is this crap going to end?

        • Molly

          Currently watching documentary series available on Youtube: Dysphoria


          ‘Dysphoric’ is a four-part documentary series on the rise of Gender Identity Ideology, its effects on women and girls – especially in developing countries. Synopsis: In this dystopian world where misogyny is rampant, and womanhood is commodified, being female comes at a cost. Corporates capitalise on women's bodies blurring the lines of biological sex, and profiting from the emperically untested pseudo-science of queer theory. This gaslighting is aided by the complicity of media, academia, legal and the political world. It is no surprise that young girls are fleeing womanhood like a house on fire. The past decade has seen a steep rise in the number of young girls seeking to transition by undergoing life threatening, irreversible procedures. ‘Dysphoric’ is a four-part documentary series on the rise of Gender Identity Ideology, its effects on women and girls – especially in developing countries. The film explores gender transition, the permanent medical side-effects of hormones and surgeries, the propaganda by 'woke' corporations that glorifies thousands of stereotypical gender presentations coalesced as fashion, a surge in pronoun policing; language hijacking that calls women ‘menstruators’, and the many hurdles women face while trying to question this modern-day misogyny.

          The film amplifies the voices of detransitioners, clinicians, psychiatrists, sociologists, feminists, academics and concerned citizens.

          Dysphoric’ was made over the course of a year during COVID lockdown, amid cancellations.

    • Muttonbird 9.2

      Apparently, under a Labour government, today will become We Who Must Not Be Named Day.

      Is this what Labour is proposing, or is it emotional rhetoric?

      • weka 9.2.1

        It’s satire. Read the room.

        • weka

          If you want to talk to feminists on IWD I’d suggest not leading with calling their politics emotional.

        • Sabine

          Satire in regards to this issue had a double radical masectomy, a hysterectomy, a vagina ectomy and now is waiting for an leg meat roll to be sewn onto their pubic bone so as no longer be the thing that men don't want to define, but believe any man can be.

        • Gypsy

          Of course it's satire, but Keir Starmer did make the astonishing claim that it was wrong to say only women have a cervix.

          • weka

            he's not the only one. So much of this nonsense now.

          • Muttonbird

            I can't read that, it's locked, so I don't know the details of his argument. But why is it astonishing? Someone born female no longer wishes to be identified as such but hasn't had surgery. Continuing to call that person a woman is wrong, imo.

            • weka

              It's an issue because as a result of the ideology, women are now being called cervix havers, even when we don't want to be and when it harms us (think public health campaigns like cervical screening removing the word 'woman' from their material. Not all women know what a cervix is, or English is their second language, so this creates barriers for women who need clear communication around their bodies. It's fucked up to have to be even explaining this).

              Trans women and trans men's needs can be met in various ways without dehumanising women (females). Only female bodied people have a cervix, the word we generally use to refer to those people is women. Not wanting to be called a woman is fine, wanting to change the language and concepts of a whole class of people so you can cope or feel included isn't when that class of people object on the basis of their own oppression and wellbeing.

              The only way Starmer is right is if the word woman has no meaning. Hence 🤡 MP above.

              Starmer article is here https://archive.ph/LC1G2

            • Sabine

              yep and when that person then dies of cervical cancer because they pretended to be a man than that is just oops. to bad?

              You can identify as humpty dumpty, but that does not make you a twin egg in striped trousers.

              And the male who had his penis/scrotum inverted into something resembling a 'vulva' and who needs to daily dilate his 'vagina' hole in order to keep depth and keep the hole open – after all their male body wants to shut and heal that hole- does not have a cervix. At the end of the ‘vagina’ hole he has some penile left over tissue or some intestinal tissue. Non of that is a cervix, as that part of the female body has a very clear reason for being. Namely keeping the uterus sterile and being able to open up to let a baby be born.
              That man would never die of cervical cancer, but he would still die of penile cancer if he were unlucky enough to get it.

              But yes, it is so unkind to pretend that a women on T does not have a cervix, and if it kills them.
              edit: https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ian-duncan-deputy-speaker-house-lords-interview-brother-died-ovarian-cancer-1125221
              this is actually a rather sad article, but his brother died not because the language is not correct, but because his brother deluded themselves into thinking that they changed ‘sex’ which sadly they did not. They changed the outside of their bodies, and that was that. A lot of surgery and a lot of T but still a women, and killed by a disease that only women have.
              So to some extend you could say that kindness kills transpeople.

              • weka

                and it's worth pointing out the long and horrendous history women have of medical mistreatment via sexism and misogyny, we have bloody good reasons for not giving up our hard won rights or our right to name ourselves in the way that is necessary for us.

            • Gypsy

              "Continuing to call that person a woman is wrong, imo."

              Continuing to call that person a 'woman' is factually correct. If we wish to respect that persons wishes by calling them a 'woman' on a personal level, we can do so if we wish. But changing the meaning of a word that defines the reality for the vast majority of adult female humans actually demeans their identity.

              • weka

                I think the solution for public health campaigns is for trans people to politically organise and come up with an overarching term that will include TM, NB females, and any of the other identities, so then we can say "women and [new term] people need to get a cervical smear every three years" or whatever.

                (There’s an unclarity here because if we say ‘trans people’ then you get a subset of trans women wanting cervical smears so they feel like a woman despite them not having a cervix (the affirmation need or demand). In some cases there is an medical access issue to sort out, and there’s also a colonisation issue to resolve societally, where some trans women’s wants are unreasonable eg having fake pregnancies and wanting to be part of ante-natal women’s groups)

                The problem remains of how to engage with a class of people (trans men) around their female bodies when they have dysphoria to an extent that they cannot tolerate reference to female bodies. This is a separate issue that needs addressing, and shouldn't be used to remove women's language and concepts.

                • Sabine

                  women, transmen, and non binary.

                  men, transwomen and non binary.

                  works real well, is explicit in its meaning and need not to be created.

                  We have accurate language to name things. We just have a group that wants to remove any meaning of he word women and associated functions with that, i.e. the word Mother.

                  This is a removal of rights from women, to all of their rights they won over the last centuries, down to he 'are they actual humans'.

                  • weka

                    women, trans men, non-binary, genderfluid, third gender, etc

                    I think three categories is too many for good public health messaging. It's also clunky. Given this is primarily and identity issue, coining a new term that makes it easy to include people with a gender identity makes sense to me, and keeps things simple.

                    • Sabine

                      They are perfect as they are true.

                      We have two groups

                      Men – Women

                      Transmen and female non binary are sub categories of women.

                      Transwomen and male non binary are sub categories of men.

                      Everything else is porkies, and so far these porkies are killing trans/non binary people by witholding hte truth from them. Namely that they can not, ever – with todays medical advances – change their sex. That means transmen can get pregnant, can die of cervical, ovarian, uterine cancers, and transwomen can die of penile, testicular and prostate cancer. Cause in the end biology don't have any fucks to give about our need to be kind to the point of killing people thanks to lies.

                      It also means that children who grow up trans( puperty blockers, wrong sex hormones, castration, neo vag and leg/arm roll penis surgeries) have all the issues their sexed bodies have, minus the reproduction facilities, issues with arousal/orgasms etc. But it would not be kind to talk honestly about these issues.

                    • Molly


                      As confronting as some might find what you state – I agree with it all.

                      To allow the words relating to biological sex to be appropriated so as to be meaningless is more than problematic, it is deliberate obfuscation and gaslighting.

                      Seemingly, 'small' concessions will often have large repercussions. This adoption of alternative language definitions has already shown itself to be one of those instances.

                • Gypsy

                  Sorry my first sentence should have read "Continuing to call that person a 'woman' is factually incorrect."

                  I am more than happy to call a man who identifies as a woman 'she' at a personal and voluntary level. But official recognition of that term is not only a delusion of biological reality, it is to demean biological women.

                  As you have pointed out, the problem is the ideological results that matter. The reaction to simple statements of fact by JKR is a case in point.

              • Muttonbird

                Calling you an idiot is also factually correct. Am I ok to continue doing so?


                • weka

                  that's not satire, it's trolling by someone who can't formulate an argument, and as you know, I will moderate such.

                • Molly

                  Only if "idiot" was a biological state that could not be changed, and Gypsy belonged to it.

                  But it is not is it?

                  Just like your comment was not '/satire'.

                • Gypsy

                  If I wanted to be identified as an idiot, and if I asked you to call me an idiot, then you would be welcome to. But equally, not being an idiot, calling me one would still be factually incorrect.

      • alwyn 9.2.2

        It will be a change anyway.

        With our current Government every other day of the year is, to paraphrase the immortal Horace Rumpole, "We who must be obeyed day".

        So we must stop questioning these things that are decided by those above our pay grade and get on with the obeying bit.

        • Gypsy

          Some of us have a suitable response to that. It consists of 2 words. The first begins with F. The second word is 'that'.

      • Anker 9.2.3

        i commented here a while ago that they should never have terminated nurses employment for not being vaxxed. I made some suggestions about how these nurses might be redeployed to non contact roles, freeing up other nurses to be on the front line.

        I think the situation is so desperate for nurses now, the unvaxxed should be re-instated and have daily rapid anti gen testing before and even during shifts. Many of these nurses will be youngish and fit and probably won't get omicron badly, then will recover. Given nurses with covid are needed to continue to keep the hospitals functioning, what difference is it going to make having an unvaxxed nurse working?

        • Anne

          Anker, I have recently come out of hospital after elected surgery. I would have been horrified to learn there were unvaccinated nurses in the building. At a time when the country is still to reach its Omicron peak, it is not the time to ease up on current policies. There are other ways that hospitals can reduce the effect of nursing shortages. The obvious one which I expect most are adopting is to cease all elective and other non urgent medical surgeries. My surgery was delayed 15 months due to Covid but I fully accepted there was no alternative.

          Once we are tracking back downward which is hopefully only some 2 or 3 weeks away, then it could be appropriate to reconsider employing unvaccinated people but not now.

          • Molly

            I have relatives in the Defence Force that were working in the MIQ facilities.

            The number of nurses at one such facility was 26, for an MIQ capacity of 50.

            They spent all day there, occasionally performing a COVID test. Times that waste of medical resources by the 80 MIQ facilities and you should then reasonably be asking – Could this be handled more efficiently?

            This government could have – and still could – do better at allocating medical resources.

            • Anne

              Oh yes, the government was caught with its pants down. But of course the current situation has been many years in the making and, as others have pointed out, you can't train nurses overnight.

              I think it can be said of most governments whatever their stripes… there is nothing like a full scale emergency to expose the inherent weakness of some government policies.

              • Molly

                Repetitive failure to acknowledge issues, and correct accordingly is a problem regardless of which government is in charge.

                Current government seems to have this problem.

          • Anker

            Firstly Anne, I am very glad you got your surgery and I hope it has gone well.

            I have proposed that unvaxxed nurses could be re-deployed to non contact roles and that would involve working from home on secure tele health platforms.

            There may come a time when the choice is having covid and being treated with an unvaxxed nurse who has had a RATs test (20% chance of false negatives). Or not getting treatment. Of course if you are in hospital with Covid, then you already have it.

            I am very puzzled as to whether people think that a vaxxed nurse who has tested positive but is symptomless or has very mild symptoms should be allowed to work versus an unvaxxed nurse with a RAT test who has tested negative.

            • weka

              this is a good proposal imo. I'm not sure that MoH or DHBs are resilient and adaptable enough to manage that.

              We should be looking hard at aged care for this issue too.

            • Anne

              I have proposed that unvaxxed nurses could be re-deployed to non contact roles and that would involve working from home on secure tele health platforms.

              It would depend entirely on the reason why they are unvaxxed. If its because they are immunocompromised in some way then your idea is an excellent one. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if its happening in some locations already.

              But if they are unvaxxed because they have disappeared down rabbit holes then it is a different story. By the very nature of their poor choice I would not want to see any nurse or doctor who has rejected Covid vaccinations on spurious or conspiratorial grounds being associated with a medical practice of any kind.

              I know there are others with a different view, but I don’t believe there is any room for compromise on the matter of Covid vaccinations.

    • weka 9.3

    • Stuart Munro 9.4

      Rowling tends to choose her causes fairly well, I think.

      JK Rowling joins royals and celebrities in donating millions to Ukraine relief (msn.com)

  10. Stephen D 10

    COVID vaccines: time to confront anti-vax aggression


    "Accurate, targeted counter-messaging from the global health community is important but insufficient, as is public pressure on social-media companies. The United Nations and the highest levels of governments must take direct, even confrontational, approaches with Russia, and move to dismantle anti-vaccine groups in the United States.

    Efforts must expand into the realm of cyber security, law enforcement, public education and international relations. A high-level inter-agency task force reporting to the UN secretary-general could assess the full impact of anti-vaccine aggression, and propose tough, balanced measures. The task force should include experts who have tackled complex global threats such as terrorism, cyber attacks and nuclear armament, because anti-science is now approaching similar levels of peril. It is becoming increasingly clear that advancing immunization requires a counteroffensive."

    Pretty sure nothing will actually happen.

  11. Muttonbird 11

    Some really awesome high-calibre Māori reached out to me over summer.

    – Chris Luxon

    Just shooting off at the mouth like he did in the boardroom of Air NZ. Sad thing is this kind of phrasing will go down well with the political right because to them it shows his high aspiration for all Maori to be “high calibre”. This kind of unthinking corp-speak highlights Luxon’s inexperience.

    Some comments:

    "What the f**k is 'high calibre' Maori? Are you saying the rest are low calibre?" one person asked.

    "Just another awkward or demeaning comment from Luxon. WTF are 'high-calibre Māori'? I suspect they are Māori people who have tertiary educations and own multiple houses," another said.

    "What constitutes a high calibre Māori, Mr luxon we need the criteria now," someone else said.


    • higherstandard 11.1

      What a daft thing for people to be upset about.

      If you replace 'maori' with women, pacifica, people etc. would it cause a similar amount of angst ?

      • Muttonbird 11.1.1

        Should have said people, and further down the article he tries to explain that's what he meant.

        If that's what he meant then why not just say that?

        It was a rookie error and a telling slip. Thankfully highlighted by social media and now media.

        Probably what he actually meant was wealthy, successful National-voting Maori because to Chris, wealth, success and voting National go hand in hand. While poor, unsuccessful people vote Labour.

        • Anne

          Some really awesome high-calibre Māori reached out to me over summer.

          – Chris Luxon

          Yeah, I used to use that expression – high calibre – years ago when I was an immature, naive idiot who fancied herself. 😉

          • Robert Guyton

            Oh dear, oh dear – what a chump call!

            • Macro

              But they must have been very Big Guns being such High Calibre.

              Mind you what more could one expect coming from an ex CEO of Air NZ where the whole culture and emphasis of the organisation (probably as a result of its ex CEO) is focused on bowing and scraping its "elite" customers.

            • Anne

              If I have interpreted your comment correctly, don't you think Luxon is a naive chump to have expressed himself in such a way?

        • AB

          Should have said "people"

          Sorry Mutton but I can't agree. As a non-journalist, my first question to someone who said "high-calibre people" would be to ask him to describe what low-calibre people are like. Is he talking about early proto-hominids and have we just time-travelled into a 19th Century anthropology lecture?

          • McFlock

            But calibre, of course, is just one measure in the analogy. I, for example, would be more of a medium calibre low velocity pakeha with a progressive left-hand twist in my lands and grooves.. .

      • Hanswurst 11.1.2

        If you replace 'maori' with women, pacifica, people etc. would it cause a similar amount of angst ?

        It would be exactly the same for me. Firstly, "awesome, high-calibre" is dickhead corporate language that means fuck all, and represents a clunky, transparent attempt to connect with 'average' people, who are incapable of thinking precisely and therefore beneath one; if he actually thinks it does mean something (which is not to be ruled out), then it's even worse, because it shows that he has trouble distinguishing between the content of his thoughts and the meaning of the words he is uttering. Secondly, regardless of the minority group he is referring to, it implicitly divides that minority group up into the worthy and the unworthy, and exudes the arrogant assumption that he is a fitting arbiter of which is which; it throws up the question as to whether he would even have bothered listening to their ideas if they hadn't met his worthiness criteria. That is the sort of call one can make on the fly if one is just a person on the street; less so if one is aspiring to govern a nation for all of its diverse people.

        If he were talking about members of what he considered to be the dominant group in society, the connotations would be slightly different, but there's no real need to go into that here.

    • vto 11.2

      yep, Luxon has become Captain Dufus…

      looking forward to the many foot-in-mouth's to come haha

    • You have to actually read the whole article Mutton.

      "On an annual basis, national price increases had slowed to 22.9 per cent in February, down from 26.8 per cent the month before."

      So, contrary to the misleading framing of the statistics, house prices have gone up an incredible 22.9% from prices that were already mindlessly high a year ago.

      There is a constant theme in the media to pretend that house prices are falling when the opposite is true which I don't understand-any theories out there?

  12. vto 13

    no problem, it is the way you are despite all your obfuscation

    so fucking boring haven't you got anything better to do?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  13. Corey Humm 14

    What's starting to shock me is how this governments rhetoric has changed.

    When asked about a problem this government used to say it would be looking into it and commited to fixing /changing the problem coming off as flexible and reactive if there was a crisis they would admit there was a crisis

    Nowadays, the government gets defensive, point blank refuses to answer questions and gets into debates about the wording or definition of the problem and refuses to accept things are a problem. Instead of comiting to change or looking into something it usually lists why they can't do anything on x y z.

    This is becoming an issue. They are becoming the can't, shan't , won't party.

    Take for instance the cost of living crisis it's clear we're in one and have been in one for some time instead of saying yes it's a crisis because of global issues and we're going to try to address some of these in the budget to soften the blow the pm rejects the word crisis.

    Or tax brackets. Tax brackets haven't been adjusted for 12 years, NZs tax system is broken and unfair and focuses far too much on sucking money out of the bottom, tax bracket creep is hurting people many min wage workers are wrongly about to be put in higher tax brackets, a reactive, flexible, energetic government would commit to adjusting tax brackets, it would be popular, instead the government rules out doing so with no argument. Too hard. Meanwhile the opposition commits to do doing so, keys govt would have blunted this by comiting to adjusting them Labour just scoffs. This is going to hurt them.

    The government is coming off as tired and stuck in their ways and with some severely hard times coming up this winter problems on tax, housing,rents, fuel,food are falling on death ears it doesn't seem to care about a third term.

    They could at the very least adjust tax brackets and drop gst to pre key levels of about 10% to line it up with Australias gst and to offset the 5% inflation.

    I fear the govt is walking into its own winter if discontent. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or being captured by their ministries or just plane out of touch but there refusal to even admit problems or commit to simple changes is a big problem and they seem more like a fourth term govt than a govt in it's fifth year.

    They desperately need a cabinet shake up and to start reading the room and getting back to a can do govt before the country sees them as out of touch and a govt of can't , shan't won't

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 14.1

      I was thinking the same thing. The emerging denial is very john key – like. Jk always denied a housing crisis, inequality crisis and child poverty etc… Labour now starting to sound the same.

  14. joe90 15

    Tax lawyer stickies all over this.

    The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

    At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

    The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.


      • Dennis Frank 15.1.1

        They gotta have plausible deniability. Use an anonymous middleman is the usual way to finesse this situation. Poland gives planes to X while receiving replacements from Y (USA or agent). X gets planes to Ukraine AF.

        Money talks so offer the deal to sympathetic govts for an enable fee. All you need is a team of trained-up pilots. If they are two-seaters, an experienced co-pilot could advise a trainee who is experienced with different planes.

        • joe90

          . If they are two-seaters, an experienced co-pilot could advise a trainee who is experienced with different planes.

          And spend a couple of hundred hours obtaining a type rating in an aircraft travelling at more than twice the speed of sound with an unrefuelled range of 3,000km or so. Nah.

          • Dennis Frank

            Young guns rise to such challenges! Anyone serious about helping Ukraine will have to use lateral thinking to finesse the mental blocks erected by old guys controlling the various hierarchies. History shows us this is how such challenges usually get dealt with. Forget business as usual and the bureaucratic slowdowns it normally imposes…

        • Barfly

          Poland has good quality Mig 29's Ukraine has more than enough people experienced in flying those planes but they would have none experienced in flying US manufactured planes like the F16

  15. weka 16

    • weka 16.1

      • weka 16.1.1

        So, JKR rightfully uses her institutionally and societally gifted power to talk the feminism she wants. I on the other hand am dropping IWD tweets in OM because I know that if I put up any of this as a post I will suffer social sanctions that unlike JKR I cannot afford, and today I don't have the spoons for it.

        That's fucked up. And this is why feminists call JKR a queen.

        It's hard enough writing as feminist in this very blokey space, as an author and/or as a commenter, for a range of reasons to do with society and the culture of TS in particular. No Debate and the sex/gender war make it actually risky. Many women cannot even express an opinion using their real life names because of fear of real life sanctions.

        We're losing ground. Women, and society. Half of the left doesn't know what we're talking about and the other half thing we're bigots for demanding that being female is an actual thing and that it matters. It's imperative we find ways to name what is happening.

        Here's Suzanne Moore,

        As a feminist, though, I would indeed like the world to be a better place for women – and by the world, I don’t mean north London or a campus in California; I mean Herat, Tigray, Guatemala. For all the arguments about equality for women amount to nothing if we lose an international perspective. Feminism is global, or it is simply an exercise in consumer power dressed up as politics. That is exactly what happened to Western feminism in the 1990s, when everything from brunching to boob jobs was “empowering”.

        If International Women’s Day means anything, it means facing up to what is happening to women everywhere. We have gone backwards, not forwards. The pandemic is part of this, but not the only factor.

        In short, without a continual fight, no headway is made. The biggest surprise to me, though, has been that the backlash against feminism has come not from the Right, but from the Left. The whole inflated debate around trans issues is so often not about the small number of people who are gender dysphoric, and need care and dignity; it is about the rights of women to keep what we already have. It has produced an avalanche of repulsive misogyny.

        The new religion of gender identity (is it a soul, an essence, a made-up concept?) has meant a fundamental denial of women’s experience: menstruation, birth, breastfeeding, menopause. These are not feelings in ladies’ heads, but things that happen to real bodies. As does rape, objectification, FGM, as well as all the societal expectations women deal with on a daily basis.

        Read the whole thing,

        https://archive.ph/p1POV link from out behind the paywall.

        • Sabine

          Which is the point of all that exercise. Achieve 'equality' by dismantling it, calling for 'equity' and thus a fonterra board with 6 male and 6 transwomen or male non binaries or male gender fluids or any made up woo woo is suddenly not a 100% male board.

          Have a womans team comprised of only transwomen. ! Equity!

          Have transwomen dilute the women pool on women lists, jobs awards etc. And in the end, have these same trans identified males who appropriate womanhood make rules under which things who can no longer be named have to live.

          I don't think many of the things who can no longer be named have thoughts about the practical implications, or for those in academia with government jobs maybe they believe that they will not be affected by the shit storm that is about to rain down on us.

          The Ferengi Nation comes to mind. Womb rental and all.

        • Anker

          Weka, I so endorse all you are saying………..I have been surprized how gender ideology has captured so many, especially the media, the public service, a raft of other organisations and The Labour and Green Parties.

          Debate is shut down, people are called bigots and transphobes, lesbian woman tresspassed from Pride last year and had the police called to enforce the tresspass.

          I spoke out recently on a group I am a member of FB page and had my post cancelled. I was drawing attention to the 25,000 detransitioners on Reddit. I know many in the group agree with me, but were too scared to speak up. One had previously spoken up and the gender ideologues rang their employee and they nearly lost their job……………..

          We are close to a time where we will no longer be able to speak up without risking hate speech laws being used against us. This is the work of the left (whom I have always been aligned with)

          • Dennis Frank

            the work of the left

            An ideology empowered by leftists driven by pc is how I'd frame it (from my observer position). Viewing the situation with the lens of civil rights, the solution seems achievable via solidarity based on accurate identification of minority rights. Then traditional organising, using leverage & framing in a lobby group. Then, if necessary a class action.

            Sharing aspirations is usually how such things originate – often combined with a common grievance based on perception of injustice. Then defining the common interest shared, then using that definition to construct a political action group. Keep membership rules simple, making it easy to join. Voluntary leadership by activists originates – then things get tricky (elections may be necessary at a critical threshold).

            So best to focus on getting such a movement up & running. Success will be proportion to numbers joining in the origin phase. Recruitment based on networking, likemindedness. The pool is adult women, the pitch is non-partisan, so the only design challenge is framing. That must address the threat to civil rights. The learning curve will probably lie around what social factors insulate some women from seeing the problem. Incentives to shift their view have to be used in the framing.

            Being uninvolved I offer this summary of technique due to a personal history of similar experiential situations & learning curves. Plus altruism. smiley

            • weka

              So best to focus on getting such a movement up & running.

              A movement of what exactly?

              • Shanreagh

                But who are these people

                Viewing the situation with the lens of civil rights, the solution seems achievable via solidarity based on accurate identification of minority rights.

                I have a horrible feeling you are meaning natal women.

                The minority is the transwomen community.

                Many women would happily help them find a place, develop policies where they are no discriminated against that does not involve natal women having their rights and born identity sidelined.

                • Molly

                  Clarity in language is important.

                  Natal women are women. Unless half the world's population has agreed otherwise.

                  Transwomen are transwomen, and are also men.

                  • Shanreagh

                    Agree that was why I was curious as to who the people with minority rights were that Dennis mentioned. It surely could not be women as figures show that depending on when the count is taken we make up usually slightly more or very slightly less than 50% and in some age groups are the majority.

                    Agree that transwomen are transwomen, and are also men and transmen are transmen and are also women.

                    There is a lot of wool over eyes pulling and sleight of hand that brings to mind sayings of my youth 'I'm not as green as I am cabbage-looking, meaning, “I may look new to this, but I'm not.” and 'I did not come down in the last shower' used to indicate that someone is not foolish or gullible

                    When it is looked at simply I wonder why more men are not coming out against this word twisting.

                    The concept that transwomenhood is a male rights agenda seems to explain this.

                    • Molly

                      Medical differences between men and women matter too.

                      I hadn't heard of this before but if true, should change protocols for both donating and receiving blood products:


                      Scientists in the Netherlands therefore analyzed data on 31,118 patients who received red blood cell transfusions from 2005 to 2015. Most of the donors (88 percent) were male; 6 percent were women who had been pregnant at least once (regardless of outcome), and 6 percent were women who had not been, according to the national blood supply agency, Sanquin. The sex imbalance is because men are allowed to donate blood more often than women and because donations from women with an unknown pregnancy history were excluded from the analysis.

                      Recipients, ages 42 to 77, were followed for a median of 245 days. Within that time, 3,969, or 13 percent of recipients, died, Sanquin’s Rutger Middelburg and colleagues reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The risk of dying was about the same after getting blood from a man or a never-pregnant women, regardless of the recipient’s sex. But every unit of blood that a man got from a woman who had been pregnant raised his chance of dying 13 percent.

              • Dennis Frank

                A movement of what exactly?

                Far be it for a male to presume to answer that. All I can offer is suggestions! On that limited basis, my answer would hew to the simple formula of women who care enough to work together to solve the problem.

                That said, I know it gets complicated. The formula of ready, willing and able is a good one to apply if those complaining about the situation default into assuming that they ought to solve it. Not all such people are willing. Some will be unable (due to personal circumstances such as prior commitments or disabilities). Some may want to help but are currently unready to do so.

                So what tends to happen is a zeitgeist effect – all those who synch into the same collective space/time/attitude are the right ones! angel

                Shifting from the generic to the particular, I wonder if it is appropriate to frame it as feminism with a number attached – to invoke the power of tradition. The new number defines progress as the agenda. So it becomes automatically progressive! This framing device works on a mutual recognition basis. Only viable if feminism as ideology is seen as non-toxic in essence by the majority of women, I suspect, and I can't comment on that issue…

                • weka

                  thanks for clarifying, I wasn't quite sure what you meant.

                  There's an awesome grassroots feminist movement in the UK that we've not seen the like of in many a decade. Very heartening. It's arisen because of the impact on women's rights from gender ideology movements, and it's making good progress both in organising and in political gains. Some women have paid a hefty price with jobs, careers, abuse, and police attention.

                  In NZ there is that potential, but I don't know what the deal is with activism in NZ now. We all seem to be in a holding pattern of some sort (not just women).

                  Re naming, feminism is a good term on its own. Feminism has always had disagreement and different branches. For clarity currently we can talk about radical feminism, liberal feminism, 2nd and 3rd wave, gender critical feminism and so on.

        • Shanreagh

          I must say this appealed to me…..Am I wrong to see it as a men's rights group?

          The strategies, bulldozing through, sidelining those who disagree, wanting an end result that comes about by force of will rather than discussion, seem more like stereotypic male thinking.

          • Molly

            I think that some of the most vociferous on this topic (irrespective of gender identity), are misogynists who have found a new publicly and politically sanctioned way to harass and harm women.

            The failure to recognise and reprimand such actions harms both women and transgender people.

          • Sabine

            Why yes Virginia, that is exactly what they are. 🙂 And they enjoy every it every bit.

            It never ceases to amuse me that some people really believe that the men of the right and the left are not driven by the exact same misogyny. It is just couched in different terms, but the end effect is the same.

            • weka

              sorry, are you saying that all trans women are MRAs?

              • Sabine

                Transgenderism/Trans ideology is misogyny. Pure and unadulterated.

                Gender Non Conforming Men are not broken beings that need to be shoved into womens places, pretending to be women to the point where they get to dictate women how to women. And that is MRA in the nutshell. They are men.

                • Molly

                  "Widening the bandwidth of being a male" perhaps?

                • weka

                  to me this is just bigotry. Trans women =/= trans ideology. There are many trans women who reject the ideology.

                  MRA is a specific set of philosophies. To equate all trans women with that is similar to saying that all feminists hate men.

                  • Sabine

                    You are putting words in my mouth that i don't say. I would like you to consider this for a moment.

                    Maybe it is not what i said that is the issue but how you interpretate it. I am not even considering William "lia' Thomas as a 'MRA', even tho he benefits greatly from the MRA that comes with TRA.

                    You can not seperate the MAN from Trans. Otherwise they would be women and then we would not have this issue to talk about.

                    Gender Non conforming men are not the fault of women and are not a problem for women. They should be an issue for Men and Men should be accomodating them in the male spaces, jobs, awards, and changing rooms. And in fact, i would venture a guess where Michael "lia' Thomas to be the 420 ranked swimmer in the Mens as an out and proud transwomen he would get way more support then he is getting now. But for some reason that is not what Michael "Lia" Thomas is doing. But i guess as someone ranked 420 – i.e. average – would not get to stand on a podium with the winning women ranked below him. And that is MRA in a nutshell. Maybe you need to consider that the two philosophies are intertwined and to some extend feed of each others.

                    Secondly, i don't consider the swimmer, or the surfer, or even Eddie Izzard a 'transwomen'. I consider them transvestites. Maybe already there we need to identify of whom we speak.

                    But i take your bigot, and i would add Terf, and Femnazi, and men hater, and i have no issues with that. In the end these words are meaningless and the actions for TRA's are standing on their own as do their words.

                    And just to re-enforce the idea once more, i do not speak about Transwomen per se, i speak about the movement, the political clout that movement has compared to say 'feminism' , the money behind it, big pharma, big surgery, and so on.

                    But again, i will wear that 'bigottry' t-shirt. It states that Women are adult human females.

                    • weka

                      You are putting words in my mouth that i don't say. I would like you to consider this for a moment.

                      I asked you a specific question,

                      sorry, are you saying that all trans women are MRAs?

                      You responded by saying,

                      Transgenderism/Trans ideology is misogyny. Pure and unadulterated.

                      Gender Non Conforming Men are not broken beings that need to be shoved into womens places, pretending to be women to the point where they get to dictate women how to women. And that is MRA in the nutshell. They are men.

                      I took that as you saying that you know what trans women are and you linked this again to MRAs, but you didn't actually answer my question directly, so I parsed it from your recent comments.

                      I see eventually you clarified that there is a difference between being trans, and trans ideology,

                      And just to re-enforce the idea once more, i do not speak about Transwomen per se, i speak about the movement, the political clout that movement has compared to say 'feminism' , the money behind it, big pharma, big surgery, and so on.

                      So my question and assumption served a purpose, of getting you to just say what you meant in relation to my query.

                      Honestly I didn't read the rest of your comment, because I was asking for a simple thing and as you know I get weary of the lectures at times.

          • weka

            no, trans women are not a men's rights group. Trans women are a group of gender non-conforming males, who just like every other group of people have varying needs and politics.

            Gender identity activism (sometimes called trans rights activism) has strong parallels with MRAs. Lots of trans women aren't doing either of those two things. There are some that definitely are.

            • Molly

              That's a clearer statement than mine.

              Thanks, weka. I agree with every word.

            • Shanreagh

              Yes I get this.

              I also get the view of Magdalen Burns in Molly's link above that why is it that women have to take the big breath of acceptance and why is it that that he is 'widening the bandwidth for women'. He should be widening the bandwidth for men.

              Magdalen Burns has another video at this link

            • Sabine

              The reason i did not answer your question to your satisfaction is very simple.

              I am not speaking of transwomen. I am speaking of the movement and only the movement. I can separate the two. So i am not going to answer your questions as your question is quite out of line and accusatory at best.

              Its like with men and being a rapist. Not all man are rapists, but most rapists are men. There is quite a nuance in there. Ditto with Transwomen, Non binaries, genderfluid and any of the other 90+ made up 'genders' may not be themselves MRA's but they profit of the MRA tactics employed by TRAs that serve only to shut down women.

              And frankly, you, Molly, Anker, Shangreah and others we have had more then one discussion on this subject and it seems that only you saw it fit to declare bigotry where there is none, implied or otherwise.

              Transideology is at its heart deeply mysogynistic, starting with the idea that a women gives birth to a child 'with a wrong body'. Humans have one body, once that body is used up we die. We can modify that body with wrong sex hormones, puberty blockers, plastic surgery, fillers, silicon, make up, full body silicon suits, tattoos, implants and what not, but it is still the same body and it is still sexed exactly the same way it was on the day of it emerging from a womans vagina. Yet, here we ask women to make way for men into their spaces, jobs, awards, camps, changing rooms, sports on the ground of these men living in the 'wrong' body. Lol. And as the beautiful clip of the Sainted Magdalene Berns stated, that dude with a beard and horrible dressing sense is now a women and we have to affirm this dude as a women cause kindness and otherwise bigotry. IF that is not MRA tactics in action i must have a different definition of MRAs then you. And fwiw, that dude might not see it as that, but then he is the one that wants to be in places where women are in various stages of undress and he is the one that now has that right, and any women who is uncomfortable with him being in a changing room with her is a ‘terf’ ‘bigot’ ‘transphope’ ‘cissy’ and other assorted bs. The insults change the premise for them stays the same.

              Understand that i generally don't go after people and pretend they are something, and if i were to do that, i would have absolutely no qualms and issue in naming the person and stating why i would do so. I am only discussing the movement, the philosophy the legal aspects and the rights that women are losing thanks to this movement that elevates men feels above the rights women earned through hard work, beatings, forced feedings, and ridicule. This may make you uncomfortable, maybe you even think i should be kinder, softer and more accommodating, but to that i only have a 'No, thank you' to give you. I rather be rude then a liar and someone who then must continuously affirm that lie. I personally can't be bothered with that. It would be too exhausting to be honest.

              • Molly

                Sabine, while I agreed with weka above, I considered it a response to Shanreagh who seems to be exploring this topic more in recent days, and might not be aware of the distinction between the activism around the gender identity ideology, and the people who are living as transgender. That was only my take, could be wrong.

                I understand your position, and agree with it as well.

                It is the gender identity ideology that is problematic, and the refusal to put that belief system under the same scrutiny and objectivity that any other belief system would undergo.

                The medical interventions promoted for children and young people, the removal of single sex spaces of all kinds (physical and otherwise), the distortion of language, the negative impact on women's sports, the indoctrination of institutions and services, the elimination of lesbians, and gays from their own movement, and the complete failure to ask for empirical evidence is a dangerous movement.

                I know that is not the limit of the negative effects, but you get my drift.

                Anyway, was cheered up by watching this week's The Mess We're In, in celebration of Women's International Day. If you are wanting something to watch, it's here:

                • weka

                  All of us that have been talking about this for ages now are on the same page: it's the ideology and activism that is the problem.

                  It's really important that we don't lump all trans people in with that. For one thing, it will step over the line in terms of TS debate rules. We have trans people here, they have a right to be here. If people are going to be casual in their rhetoric about transness, and not clear, and they sound like bigots, then it's unfair on trans people, it creates an atmosphere that inhibits debate.

                  It will also be harder to then argue that feminists have any rights to not be exposed to such when debate women's rights.

                  For another, it's wrong and not fair.

                  We cannot expect to have our own arguments respected if we won't make an effort to separate out trans people from the problematic ideology.

                  • Molly

                    weka, if you haven't done so. Watch the link posted above – my daughter and I enjoyed the whole hour, and the display of humour and understanding between the women. I hope you do as well.

                    I think there exists the same energy – for the most part – between female commentators on here. I hope I'm right about that.

                    (Edit: Thinking of writing a post about the damage of the medicalised response (and social transitioning) of children, based on the recent changes to that after evidential reviews in the Netherlands, Finland, Sweden and France. Having just watched the Dysphoria series on Youtube, its a timely conversation for NZ, that has an “affirmation health care” model.)

                    Will see if I can get something coherent drafted.

                  • Molly

                    Sent email with draft post, yes.

                • Sabine

                  Yes, it was a nice 'beer' hour in good albeit physically distanced ways, excellent company and as far as i can crush on ladies, oh do i have a crush on Helen Joyce. To the Queen her Ladies!

              • weka

                I am not speaking of transwomen. I am speaking of the movement and only the movement. I can separate the two. So i am not going to answer your questions as your question is quite out of line and accusatory at best.

                Sabine, this is literally what I was asking you to clarify. You've done that now, but it took far more work than was necessary imo. A simple clarification would have sufficed.

                If you can't handle someone calling your position bigotry, then maybe take more care with how you express it. I'm not the only one who sometimes misunderstands what you say. I'm not saying be kind, I'm saying pay attention to who you are talking to and listen to what they are saying. My original question was incredibly clear and simple to answer. But you didn't.

                I don't think you are a bigot now that you have made it clear what you mean. It definitely wasn't clear from your first comment (which is why I asked) or your second.

                Again, didn't read most of your comment because am sick of the patronising lectures, as if I don't already know all that stuff.

                • Sabine

                  I tend to abstain from words such as bigotry or any insults to anyone generally specifically insults as generally that always says more about the one using these words then those against whom they are deployed. ,

                  I am sorry that you thought that my second or first comment was a lecture, i honestly believed that i had to make myself even clearer in my thoughts and words.

                  • weka

                    My problem is when you don't listen. I didn't need long posts of explanation, I already know what you think about trans ideology, and we are generally on the same page. All I needed was clarification on that one point. See my comment to Molly below for the reasons why. It matters how we talk about trans people here, in the same way it matters how men talk about women. Making it clear that it is the ideology that is being critiqued is a good way to do this 👍

        • Molly

          I enjoy reading Suzanne Moore – kicked off the Guardian for.. continuing to be herself – a clear writer.

          …The official theme is #breakthebias, which is as innocuous as it is futile. People – not women, because the word ‘women’ is now controversial – are asked to pose, hands crossed upwards, to share as a selfie on social media. This is supposed to be part of imagining a “gender-equal world”, one free of “bias, stereotypes and discrimination”.

          It renders the term ‘woman’ somewhat pointless, as this is essentially self-ID. That’s a pose.

          Still, what is a real woman? I have always been the wrong kind myself: too stroppy, too outspoken, too graceless. But now, though, I am strangely convinced that because I have female biology, I am an actual woman. (The gender rules of femininity that I have considered innately dumb my entire life make me neither a wannabe man, or non-binary, or anything special.)

          As a feminist, though, I would indeed like the world to be a better place for women – and by the world, I don’t mean north London or a campus in California; I mean Herat, Tigray, Guatemala. For all the arguments about equality for women amount to nothing if we lose an international perspective. Feminism is global, or it is simply an exercise in consumer power dressed up as politics. That is exactly what happened to Western feminism in the 1990s, when everything from brunching to boob jobs was “empowering”.

          Forgive me, then, if I do not celebrate International Women’s Day when so many political parties are kowtowing to this woman-hating religion. Forgive me if I think “non-binary” is just another way of creating a new binary, and saying “I am special” and you are not in my tribe. Forgive me if I think that, in so much of the virtue-signalling we will witness today, it will likely be that there is little “international” about any of this.

          Sure, I will strike a pose and do the hand gesture – but it will not be a benign, flappy cross: it will be rude and unfeminine.

          And it won’t be a pose. For being a woman means living in the real world, in female bodies.

          Time to respect that one day a year, perhaps?

  16. Dennis Frank 17

    Helping the underdog fight better:

    The BBC has spoken to the defence ministries of Estonia, Sweden and Denmark, all of whom confirmed their weapons supplies had been tracked and successfully reached Ukraine in recent weeks.

    Britain and America had provided weapons to Ukraine before the invasion began on 24 February, with the UK delivering 2,000 light anti-tank missiles (Nlaws). Most countries though only started to send weapons in response to the Russian invasion. In all, 14 nations have supplied arms. They include Sweden and Finland, both of which have a long history of neutrality and are not members of Nato. But both have sent thousands of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.

    Germany has supplied 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles. The Baltic states have also delivered thousands of weapons including Stingers and Javelin missiles, one of the world's most effective anti-tank weapons with a range of 2.5km (1.5 miles). Ukraine says it has already successfully destroyed several Russian T-72 tanks.

    Recent weapons deliveries also include tens of thousands of assault rifles and machine guns, anti-tank mines and hundreds of tonnes of ammunition, as well as body armour and helmets, and medical supplies.

    Justin Bronk, a research fellow on airpower at the Royal United Services Institute, says there's been visual confirmation of at least 20 Russian aircraft shot down in Ukraine so far – both helicopters and jets. That's significantly fewer than claimed by Ukraine's ministry of defence, which says it has downed 48 Russian planes and 80 helicopters. Yet even the lower number shows Russia's struggled to gain supremacy in the skies.

    Ukraine has suffered losses too. But UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace told the BBC that Russia had so far not been successful in destroying the country's air defences and air force. Before the war began, Ukraine's military aircraft were outnumbered at least three-to-one by those that had been amassed on the border by Russia.

    So the imbalance may be gradually evening out. I couldn't find any update on the Ukraine army situation online.

    • joe90 17.1

      . I couldn't find any update on the Ukraine army situation online.

      Because Ukrainian operation security will be as tight as a drum while every tool the West has works to crack Russia's, and publicise every last detail.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 17.1.1

        Giddy with excitement over all this 'war porn' arent you.

        Probably using the garmin hand held taped to the cockpit if the Russian Glonasss GPS system is jammed while over Ukraine

        • joe90

          Says TS's #1 hasbarah warrior for the autocratic warmonger calling the shots.


          • ghostwhowalksnz

            Thats defamatory . Ive said its a terrible war as they always are including those by the US and friends 'good wars' and a massive mistake by Putin.

  17. Ad 18

    Omicron has just shut down a major infrastructure project, temporarily.

    Omicron brings Auckland tunnelling machine to a halt (1news.co.nz)

    A third of workers are down as 'close contacts' or infected.

    This will be a shockwave through the construction industry, which is one of New Zealand's largest employers.

  18. Stephen D 19

    "A third of the National Party has either been infected with Covid-19 or is isolating with someone who has, as the Omicron wave hits Parliament.?


    If they can't keep themselves safe, how can they keep the rest of us safe??

  19. adam 20

    So censorship is the new normal. Funny how the whole legacy media is complaining about censorship in Russia, then are deathly quite whilst the tech companies shut down alternative news in the west. In particular anti-war voices, it's frightening.

    If you have the time worth hearing the whole thing. I say hear as I just play like a podcast, and do other work.

  20. Macro 21

  21. ianmac 22

    The Opposition is getting better at following their themes eg adjusting tax brackets. (Which the Budget may be already getting ready to do that.

    1.CHRISTOPHER LUXON to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement, “The debate is not whether inflation has increased and is impacting people. The debate is what we should do about it”; if so, will she adjust the income tax brackets to account for the last four years of inflation?


  22. SPC 23

    Putin has offered Ukraine peace, for recognition of the annexation of Crimea and eastern Ukraine areas in Luhansk and Donetsk occupied since 2014 and declaring neutrality (not joining NATO).

    The generous offer is indicative of Putin's real agenda.

    The end of sanctions on Russia for the annexation of Crimea (and occupation in eastern Ukraine) – this only occurs when an independent and internationally recognised sovereign Ukraine consents.

    Ukraine should, in my opinion agree, provided Russia takes over a proportion of the national debt of Ukraine equivalent to the land and resources transferred to Russia.

    And also agree to neutrality, provided it retains an independent defence capability. And that it can still join the EU at or by the time the EU and Russia have an FTA. From this a positive Ukraine and Russian economic relationship, in which Russia and the EU would assist with Ukraine's reconstruction.

    The increase of sanctions on Russia applied recently would have sharpened focus on the importance of a negotiated settlement.

    While Putin would still be free to negotiate a reduced NATO presence in former WP nations, via a military build up threat of securing a land bridge to Kaliningrad via Lithuania – developing a co-operative relationship between the EU and Russia over Ukraine's economic revival would reduce the risk of NATO-Russian conflict

    • SPC 23.1

      After Ukraine this is where the Russian military will exercise, and while they exercise Putin will seek guarantees of NATO withdrawal of forward capability in former WP nations.

      This is why there needs to be a deal over Ukraine, rather than a sacrifice of Ukraine to revitalise NATO. The revitalised NATO they seek only comes from a new Cold War with a heavily sanctioned and bitter Russia.

      This leaves the USA vulnerable to Chinese opportunism (annexation of Taiwan post 2025 – they are giving chip manufacturers time to relocate offshore to reduce the economic risk to the West, so make it more of a fait accompli).

      • Stuart Munro 23.1.1

        The Russian military appears to be overcommitted in Ukraine.

        At least to the point that the Belarusian military are throwing sickies rather than join them.

        With the mass of their heavy equipment set to be abandoned in the coming rout, it will be Ukraine that decides where the borders lie, as Russian conventional forces are defanged and disgraced, and no economy exists to rebuild them for decades.

        Putin must have thought he was the god of intelligence, turning the former US president, but as another US president noted, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

  23. alwyn 24

    A monopoly? Really?

    I didn't realise all those planes that fly in and out of New Zealand airports were Air New Zealand planes in disguise.

    I didn't realise that planes labelled as being owned by Qantas, Air China, Etihad Airways, EVA Air, Singapore Airlines, United and Jetstar were actually part of Air New Zealand.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  24. pat 25

    As the world fractures in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine what chance the global co operation vital to addressing climate change?

  25. julian richards 26

    Will this end up being the scandal of the century?

    "regular use of ivermectin as a prophylactic agent was associated with significantly reduced COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and mortality rates," based on an observational study of 159,561 residents ages 18 and over in Itajaí, Brazil.

    'After adjusting for variables, the authors said, they found a 67% reduction in hospitalization rate and a 70% reduction in mortality rate for ivermectin users.'


    "Conclusion: In this large PSM study, regular use of ivermectin as a prophylactic agent was associated with significantly reduced COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and mortality rates."


    Those numbers are similar to 2 x shots plus booster(3) in regards to Omricon!

    Obviously the Oxford trial is still on-going, but there seems to be a picture forming around this very cheap and safe drug.

    • McFlock 26.1

      Scandal of the century my arse.

      Even if ivermectin comes out of the wash as being as effective as its premature proponents have claimed for however long, so what? A decision based on insufficient evidence is still a gamble, even if one happens to win.

  26. ghostwhowalksnz 27

    "pointed out potential conflicts of interest with the study’s authors. They noted that although the preprint version of the study mentions that two of its authors received money from a pharmaceutical company that manufactures ivermectin, the published version leaves that detail out.'


    In Brazil even before covid , Ivermectin was a commonly prescribed anti parasite drug and what portion the citys inhabitants were already using the drug and of course covid vaccines were also used – which the authors say was still the best protection

    But of course for the facebook epidemiologists its of no concern why no real experts will take much notice of the other evidence

    If you have worms go for Ivermectin all you like

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister Sio to discuss Pacific development priorities
    Associate Foreign Affairs Minister Aupito William Sio travels to Indonesia this week to represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the Indonesia Pacific Forum for Development and the 15th Bali Democracy Forum. “Attending these international meetings enables Aotearoa New Zealand to connect with our partners kanohi ki te kanohi, or face to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Changes to partner work visas deferred to April 2023
    Changes to partner work visas that were set to come into effect in December 2022 have been deferred to April 2023, Immigration Minister Michael Wood has announced today. “I have made the decision to defer these changes to April 2023,” Michael Wood said. “Our Government wants to provide greater certainty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Building Act changes put the environment at the heart of how we build
    The Government is taking action to reduce waste and lower emissions from the building and construction sector in significant Building Act amendments announced today. “This Government is proud to put the environment at the heart of how New Zealand builds. By enabling mandatory energy performance rating requirements for buildings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt’s medicines boost paying off for New Zealanders
    Pharmac’s plan to fund the cystic fibrosis medicine Trikafta is another example of the Government’s boost to the medicines budget helping New Zealanders, says Health Minister Andrew Little. “Pharmac, not politicians, makes the decisions on what treatments to fund, but politicians decide what funding to provide to Pharmac, and health ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better transport choices for New Zealanders
    Forty-six councils across Aotearoa New Zealand, from large metro centres to small provincial towns, will receive funding to implement more transport options for communities, as part of the Transport Choices package 2022-24, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. “The Government is upgrading New Zealand’s transport infrastructure system to make it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Te Rangiwaituhi – Maniapoto apology
    Mihi Ko taku rourou iti a haere, maringi kai whenua Ko taku rourou iti a haere, maringi kai moana kia mau ki te kawau māro, whanake ake! kō Maniapoto e! Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa   Greetings and Thanks As we gather here this morning I want to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Maniapoto receives Crown Apology – Ka whakawhiwhia ki a Ngāti Maniapoto te Whakapāhatanga a ...
    Kua tukuna e te Pirimia, e Jacinda Ardern, i te taha o te Minita mō ngā Take Tiriti o Waitangi, a Andrew Little, te Whakapāhatanga a te Karauna ki a Ngāti Maniapoto mō āna mahi o mua i takahi i te Tiriti o Waitangi. I tū te hui i Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Big online platforms to pay fair price for local news content
    The Government will legislate to require big online digital companies such as Google and Meta to pay a fair price to New Zealand media companies for the local news content they host and share on their platforms, Minister of Broadcasting Willie Jackson announced today. The legislation will be modelled on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to remove entrenchment from Three Waters legislation
    The Government will fix the Water Services Entities Bill this week by removing the entrenchment clause that was voted on during committee stages, Leader of the House Chris Hipkins announced today. “It was a mistake to put the entrenchment clause in and the Government will fix the issue as soon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • 10 new whare for Ngāi Tāmanuhiri kaumātua and whānau in Te Muriwai
    Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing) Peeni Henare joined Ngāi Tāmanuhiri and the wider Toitū Tairāwhiti collective, at the opening of 10 new homes built for kaumātua and whānau in Muriwai today.   “Every whare that is built and whānau that is transferred from inadequate housing to a warm dry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Joint statement: Australia and Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations
    Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon Penny Wong welcomed Aotearoa New Zealand's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta to Canberra today for biannual Australia – Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations. The Ministers acknowledged the unique strength of the relationship between Australia and Aotearoa New Zealand, reaffirmed the shared ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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