Open mike 09/09/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 9th, 2021 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

89 comments on “Open mike 09/09/2021 ”

  1. Gezza 1

    Good article on rehabilitation/deradicalisation programmes & the situation here with the Lynnmall attacker.

    "He had problems with belonging and attachment, he was ostracised and clinically depressed and he did not have a lot of trust,” says Canberra-based criminologist Dr Clarke Jones.

    Jones was called in to assess [him] and offered to design a rehabilitation programme for him, but says it was not put in place because there was no funding and the police had no appetite for it.

    As more details emerge about the case there is growing anger and frustration about how his release was handled by Corrections and the police.

    The Muslim Association says he should not have been left in the small Islamic community that did not have the capacity or the capability to support him.

    Corrections has defended its handling of [the attacker] and has outlined the measures it took.

    Other counter terror experts have told The Detail deradicalisation or rehabilitation would have been difficult because he was unwilling.

    So what is a rehabilitation programme and what does it take to successfully deradicalise an individual?":

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018811353/turning-around-a-terrorist

    "Mothers and sisters
    Aliya Danzeisen of the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand says her group has been calling for years for more financial and professional support for community groups.

    No support is “like having some first time driver driving a Maserati. “If you have a psychosis you don’t send them to the local dairy to get support,” she says. Any rehabilitation programme needs women at the table.

    “The most effective in deradicalising people are the mothers or the sisters.”

    (Personally I'm a wee bit dubious about that one. There have been several cases overseas where mothers &/or sisters were radicalised too, or where the jihadist adheres rigidly to the Quran's teaching that women are subordinate to males & have no business telling them what to do, & they didn't dare expose their son or brother to authorities – Gezza)

    • Cricklewood 1.1

      Im hoping it gets clarified as to where he was radicalized… if its in 2016 as his mum said that means it happened here? Or he travelled back to Sri Lanka around that time?

      • Gezza 1.1.1

        Agree we need to know how & where he was radicalised. He didn't travel back to Sri Lanka. His mum there claimed he was radicalised by Iraqi & Syrian neighbours in NZ. An article I posted late yesterday by a young female Muslim academic pointed out that sectarian mosques are developing here now,

        He could just have been a psychiatrically disturbed loner who was subjected to racial abuse (he was reported by one dark-skinned witness to have ignored her & specifically targeted white people) – it flipped him over the edge & he radicalised himself on the internet.

        Nobody knows.

      • Gezza 1.1.2

        A very comprehensive analysis & opinion piece by Paul Buchanan. With some new background info.

        Among other things he canvasses the many forms of terrorism, & looks at the question Robert Guyton raised here the other day. Was the LynnMall attacker actually a terrorist?

        "… rather than an act of terrorism or terrorist act (take your pick), what I saw on Sept. 5 was the commission of a hate crime. I recognize that NZ does not have a hate crime statute (as far as I know) and understand that hate crimes are usually designated as acts of violence committed against individuals or groups because of who they are (e.g. gays, Muslims, redheads). Here I use the phrase “hate crime” because Mr. S’s hatred and rage was directed at non-Muslim society in general and because of the lack of compliance with the definitions and description of terrorism mentioned above.

        It does not make the supermarket attacks any less heinous than those done deliberately as terrorist attacks with the same (thankfully non-fatal) outcome. But it does help distinguish between underlying motive and rigorousness of method, which in turn helps prevent us from being suckered into agreeing and complying with the agendas of security officials and vested “experts” alike."

        http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2021/09/the-supermarket-stabbing-spree-was-not-a-terrorist-act/

    • Incognito 1.2

      Personally I’m a wee bit dubious about that one.

      Google is your friend. Open your mind and learn something about the topic, which might make you a wee bit less dubious. Easy to criticise from your key-board sitting in your armchair and not doing the mahi.

      • Gezzayou 1.2.1

        I've been doing te mahi on this topic for years. Islam & Islamic terrorism are huge subjects with multiple layers & complexities.

        Islam ranges anywhere from very liberal & progressive to very conservative. I’ve only ever personally known 3 Muslims reasonably well & they were all lovely, loving, genuine folk.

        Could you be more specific about exactly what you mean?

        • weka 1.2.1.1

          Please check your username before commenting each time.

          • weka 1.2.1.1.1

            the mods are already grumpy about the number of times we have to attend to this issue. The onus is on commenters to check each time.

            • Gezza 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Sorry weka. This early iPad2 just can't cope with the site. It's too old & hangs constantly, requiring constant re-typing, & re-checking that it hasn't inserted characters from the text field into the name or email address.

              Think I'll just give you all a break & sod off.

              • weka

                I find it quite hard commenting on TS even on my new iphone (although I'm logged in so I don't get the typo issue). I'll have a talk to Lynn because it's not just you, it's been a consistent issue in the last year or so.

                One suggestion I have is to type your comment in another app eg Text Edit (if that's available on your ipad) and then cut and paste into the text field.

                I'm also curious if the name and email address fields are auto-filling or if you have to retype them each time.

                What do you mean by hangs constantly?

                • weka

                  From memory Lynn says it's a user end issue, but it's so constant now and it never used to happen, so I don't really know what is going on.

                • Gezza

                  Yes, once I post the first comment the fields auto-fill.

                  But after posting 2 or 3 times, it just slows right down, the text field takes ages to open up, and when it does, clicking in it does NOTHING. No text appears. Or if it does, it might suddenly jump up into the name or email addy field.

                  This iPad2's got the last iOS version for this model. It's just too old, not enuf RAM, and can't easily access a lot of sites – including "busy" news-sites with embedded videos & animated ads etc. these days.

                  (Just FYI, for my first comment today at the top of this page, I used the iPad’s Notes app, but I didn’t notice that the excerpts I posted used the LynnMall attacker’s name twice. Even though I was able to edit them out (great having that function here 👍🏼) as soon as I submitted it, I think that was why that one went into moderation.)

              • rod

                cheerio gazza, see ya smiley

        • Incognito 1.2.1.2

          sigh

          You were quite specific about what you are a wee bit dubious. I challenged you to self-educate and possibly remove some of your doubt. Never mind, it was obviously asking too much of you.

          Have a nice day.

          • Gezza 1.2.1.2.1

            My point was that where the mothers & sisters are part of a modern day, normal, liberal & progressive Muslim family (which, in NZ, by far the overwhelming majority are) there's not usually any need for them to be involved in rehabilitation & deradicalisation programmes. Their sons & brothers are well-socialised just in their normal upbringing.

            Where sons & brothers go off the rails for whatever reason & get sucked into extremist fundamentalist ideology, they usually cleave to Taliban & IS-like beliefs that their womenfolk have no right to direct them, that it should be the other way round.

            The LynnMall attacker's mum (& others in his whanau) say they tried to talk him out of his extremist beliefs, but they couldn't. There've been female suicide attackers, as well as men. The Sri Lankan bombings after the Christchurch mosques attacker were perpetrated by a whole family unit, I think.

            The reasons for these attacks are complex. “Lone wolves” are individuals; they don’t fit into a box. And one-size-fits-all derad programmes don’t work for everyone. They need to be tailored to the individual, from what I’ve read. Paul Buchanan's done a good analysis (posted above) of whether this attacker was even a terrorist.

            But if you think I'm meaning something other than what I've said, & that you can read my mind, & I can read yours, you're mistaken.

            • Incognito 1.2.1.2.1.1

              deep sigh

              As expected, you’re sticking to your guns and refuse to open your mind and widen your horizon. Do you ever switch eyes?

              When I read a quote like that, my first reaction is to do some research. You did not, because you already know the answer, don’t you?

              However, if you’re not a wee bit dubious about it and in fact quite agree with that statement by Aliya Danzeisen of the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand then indeed I was mistaken and I apologise for the confusion.

              • Gezza

                I see these issues from as many sides & viewpoints as I can. I'm not fixed in my views on Islam, Muslims, or Islamic terrorists, & I still have no flippin idea what you're on about. I'm not a mind reader.

                I thought this was a better place to swap knowledge & opinions than, say, Kiwiblog.

                But it's all right, mate. I've lost interest. yes All the best with the mind-reading & cryptography. kiss

                • Gezza

                  Final comment: I agree with her that ideally there should be "women at table" in any derad programme. My comment was in relation to "the mothers & sisters being the most effective" at deradicalising people.

                  I haven't seen anything in my research yet to back that up. And I've spent enuf time explaining why that doesn't always work.

                  Hugs.

                  • Incognito

                    My comment was in relation to "the mothers & sisters being the most effective" at deradicalising people.

                    I haven't seen anything in my research yet to back that up. And I've spent enuf time explaining why that doesn't always work.

                    So close yet so far.

                    At least we’re talking about one and the same thing here. Phew!

                    Of course, you haven’t seen any research to back that up [darn algorithms], and you didn’t go looking for it either. You simply wrote if off and criticised it as something dubious.

                    You cannot explain anything if you haven’t seen any other research and because you haven’t seen anything else, until today from Aliya Danzeisen of the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand, you didn’t go looking for it either. It is a circular argument and a sign of confirmation bias AKA a dog chasing its own tail.

                    QED

                    BTW, where is that odd reasoning coming from that something that doesn’t always work has no validity or veracity? How would you know anyway if you haven’t seen or done any research to back that up? It is an escape route for you in case there’s some research to back it up, so you can fob it off ‘because it doesn’t always work’.

                    QED

                    So, if it is not the most effective, is it effective at all, in your opinion? Maybe we find some kind of middle ground here …

                    Thank you for the hugs, BTW.

                    • Gezza

                      Most of the research & reports I've come across so far is from the UK, where they were developing serious problems with increasing numbers of Muslim inmates convicted for criminal offences getting radicalised in the prisons.

                      They've had various different programmes in different prisons & a relatively recent conprehensive review following attacks by ex-inmates.

                      There's still mixed success, I believe. One paper (or article) indicated that the most effective programmes have been those run by a couple of well-known & respected de-radicalised extremists themselves.

                      One of them says he de-radicalised himself. He just concluded over time that killing innocents was obviously wrong, couldn't be justified & wended his own way out & into more orthodox Islam.

                      As to whether mothers & sisters might be effective in some cases, sure. It could well be that Alia is right about mothers & sisters being the best de-radicalisers for some.

                      But it doesn't follow that just because she holds the position she does, & said it, that they are in all cases (for reasons I've already traversed). Any more than The Pope can tell us how to rehabilitate sexual offending priests.

                    • Incognito []

                      Thank you.

                      As to whether mothers & sisters might be effective in some cases, sure. It could well be that Alia is right about mothers & sisters being the best de-radicalisers for some.

                      But it doesn’t follow that just because she holds the position she does, & said it, that they are in all cases (for reasons I’ve already traversed).

                      I agree with the first part. I don’t think Aliya Danzeisen argued the second part.

                      Don’t you wonder why she’d hold “the position she does”? Do you think that it is because of her PoV and/or maybe because there’s possibly some actual research to back it up?

                    • Gezza

                      Don’t you wonder why she’d hold “the position she does”?

                      No. I assume she has the skills, knowledge, motivation & drive to fill it and sees a need for the Council to exist.

                      Do you think that it is because of her PoV and/or maybe because there’s possibly some actual research to back it up?

                      I don't know. I haven't come across anything yet that reaches the conclusion she posits. I mention those other matters I do because I've been interested in this topic for years. Ever since 9/11. I've read the Quran. Read many Hadith. Started with a few of the usual suspect anti-Muslim sites. Debated with Muslims online. Got caught out having only the most cursory understanding of Islam, & spent years finding out how complex and multi-faceted it is.

                      Nobody's an expert, not even Muslims, in every sect or aspect of Islam. There's not a completely rigid doctrine. It's quite interesting how much is left to Imams & scholars to consider and issue opinions (fatwahs) on. Sharia has numerous different interpretations. Not all Islamic countries have the same Sharia codes.

      • Gezza 1.2.2

        Blimin iPad2 inserted extra characters into my username! Reply's gone into moderation.

        But I'll add that I've only known 3 Muslims reasonably well. 1 female Pakeha convert, 1 Iraqi divorced female, & 1 Somali gentleman that I worked with for 2 years. They were all lovely, peaceful, loving people.

  2. Grumpy 2

    Good news! Arctic and Antarctic sea ice volume is the highest it has been for 9 years! We are saved!
    https://osisaf-hl.met.no/v2p1-sea-ice-index

  3. Gezza 3

    AlJazeera tv newshour is reporting that international reaction to the new Taliban interim Cabinet appointments is mixed.

    [The reporter's Charlotte Bellis, ex-TV three, in Kabul, who has established very good personal relationships with their leadership & complains to them if she is abused or mistreated by their less-sophisticated footsoldiers. Aljaz tv has several Kiwi reporters & news anchors & technical staff]

    China has pledged $31 million US in aid.

    Locals' reactions range from support of their appointees & wishes for them to now just get on with governing, providing jobs, getting the ecomony back up & running etc – to disappointment & resentment there are no women Cabinet Ministers, & no other sects or ethnic minority appointments.

    • Ad 3.1

      That Taleban government is already playing a downward auction to accept the most foreign aid cash for the lowest possible moral conditions.

      Who will win out of that?

      • Gezza 3.1.1

        This remains to be seen, Ad. These dudes are a bit of an enigma at the moment.

        Taliban footsoldiers & local rural commanders from the countryside aren't usually very well educated & they have longstanding strong conservative cultural & religious views.

        But I get the impression many of them just joined the Taliban because half the country's in need of humanitarian aid & there are no jobs. The former Afghan government was thoroughly corrupt. Some local commanders didn't even pay their troops or police officers. Bribery was endemic.

        Now the Taliban can legally acquire taxes & customs duties & start building up cash reserves. But some educated women there, & ethnic minorities, are showing every sign of not being prepared to put up with the excessively patriarchial & sectarian rule of the past Taliban.

        And despite their claims they've now subdued Panjshir, there is still the core of an insurgency against them. Masoud (?) their leader hasn't been caught & has called for a national uprising against them.

        There's no shortage of arms in Afganistan. It's a rugged country whose various ethnic tribes have been switching allegiances & warring with each other for centuries.

        If the Talban don't adapt & adopt a more tolerant, more inclusive, less misogynistic approach, they could get bogged down & economically ruined trying to subdue an insurgency against THEM.

        • Ad 3.1.1.1

          By the end of this year Afghanistan will have a similar global media profile to Kyrgystan or Mozambique. Tens of billions of aid will somehow continue to be poured into them for little result other than a few getting rich.

          There are plenty of other problems to deal with.

          • Gezza 3.1.1.1.1

            They could be playing silly buggers with the remaining 100-200 Americans still living there. They're effectively hostages.

            And they're reported to be making it difficult for Afghans to leave, insisting that they must have passports or travel documents & visas.

            We'll have to see how quickly they fall off the Western media radar. They won't disappear from Aljazeera's interest & scrutiny.

        • Gezza 3.1.2.1

          Sadly they are showing every sign of being the same reactionary & extreme misogynistic patriarchal fundamentalists that they were in the 1990s.

          And the Western world in punishing them financially is probably just going to increase the poverty & misery of their own trapped civilians – unless they are toppled or forced to liberalise their concept of Sharia by an insurgency.

          They are making the Saudis & Iranians look liberal & progressive.

          • Grumpy 3.1.2.1.1

            I know quite a few Iranians and I have found them to be exceptionally liberal, decent folks. They seem to live in a different universe to their leaders.

            • Gezza 3.1.2.1.1.1

              Yes, I believe you. Aljazeera tv has shown interviews of young Iranians, males & females (20-30-somethings) sitting together, al fresco, at cafes in Tehran. Using their smartphones, several speaking English & other languages, wearing blue jeans, & though the young ladies are also wearing hijabs, they're just draped over the back half of their head, their hair is showing, they wear makeup.

              They're well-educated. They don't dare directly criticise the theocratic regime but they clearly don't like its fundamentalism. There have been middle-aged interviewees there who are also very liberal. They don’t like so much of their country’s budget being spent on the Republican Guard’s fighters in other countries; they want it spent on social programmes & infrastructure etc.

              Out in the provinces, I gather, the old conservative misogynous theocratic rules of behaviour & dress are more likely to still be enforced, & generally speaking the extremely powerful state-within-a-state Republican Guard is feared, even in Tehran.

              These more enlightened, liberal, young Muslim folk give hope for the future as the Old Guard die out. But Trump's alienated them with the resumption of even worse sanctions that have impacted them too, & with his assassination of Soleimani.

  4. dv 5

    Any body aware of another attack (DOS) on ANZ this am.

  5. Herodotus 6

    As if those directly on the front line are not under extreme pressure not being supported by management if this report is correct. Not only those at Auckland hospital but all that we have been doing to eliminate could be undone by a failing from such as this.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-chris-hipkins-says-outbreak-could-push-back-phased-reopening-to-world/ENOACS3WZQWCIAEIUXOQ3RIDRE/

  6. Cricklewood 7

    Any idea why we havent had a massive public health campaign outlining some of the health factors that greatly increase the likelihood of ending up severly ill with Covid?

    Surely if we can get prople to cut down on tobacco, alcohol and get some exercise it will help both prognosis and ease some burden on the health system?

    • Gezza 7.1

      I could hazard a guess that those factors are already well-known to the folk that would note & heed such advice, & that those who currently ignore such advice would continue to do so, so why bother?

      Plus, the Covid 19 & Three Waters campaigns are probably already costing a fortune?

    • Incognito 7.2

      Not the first priority in/of an elimination strategy.

      General health and wellbeing of the population is and has been part of Government policies for years.

    • mauī 7.3

      Stop bringing common sense and public health into this. Wear your face covering and get your jab already.

  7. Reality 8

    Today's Herald title for Mike Hosking states the Government is good at creating fear but we need hope. If the Government had played the Delta virus down and not repeatedly emphasised how dangerous and contagious it was, the first person to accuse the Government of looking the other way would be Mike Hosking himself. One suspects he is not happy the case numbers are trending down.

  8. Forget now 9

    This article really buries the lead in deference to the exploiters! I do admit that gas may be a necessary; evil transitional energy source, but still; better left in the ground, if at all possible. And even if it is taken out, the land should be put right before the exploiters cut and run. The quote in the 3rd last paragraph from Taranaki Energy Watch spokesperson Sarah Roberts, should have been much nearer the top, with a better headline like: Polluters whinge about the proposed cost of being made to clean up after themselves.

    Tamarind Taranaki collapsed in December 2019 leaving the Crown with a bill of $300 million to safely decommission the offshore Tui Field.

    The government says the Bill will close loopholes which allowed Tamarind to walkaway from its responsibilities.

    If passed into law, it would hold companies liable for decommissioning costs in perpetuity, even if permits or licences have been on-sold and it would make company directors criminally liable for not fulfilling decommissioning obligations, even if they had since left the post…

    "Given that the oil and gas industry is saying that they are good corporate citizens, I think it is quite a reasonable expectation of the Crown to expect that they meet the obligation of decommissioning and I think it's always been implicit that they do and it's actually written into a number of documents, but it's just making that obligation explicit."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451103/energy-bosses-say-proposed-bill-poses-risk-to-electricity-supply

    Note that it was only Tamarind Taranaki Limited who "collapsed", the larger Tamarind multinational continues to thrive, and even operate in Taranaki:

    The rest of the Tamarind Group is ring-fenced and unaffected by the above actions taken in respect of the Tui entities. This includes Tamarind New Zealand Onshore Operations (the acquisition which completed in September 2019), Tamarind’s 56% operating share in the Galoc field in the Philippines, and Tamarind’s various interests in Australia.

    http://www.tamarindresources.com/new-zealand–tui.html

  9. Whispering Kate 10

    Why on earth is Middlemore Hospital allowing visitors in to see sick relatives during this level 4 lockdown. If Residential care homes are forbidding visitors because of their frail vulnerable residents why are sick and immune compromised patients not being treated with the same level of care. Staff are having to deal with haphazard mask use by visitors and one apparently managed to get it over with a patient in a room with other patients. Middlemore needs a management broom sweep.

    We are managing to reduce positive cases on a daily basis on sheer luck alone. There are some crazy decisions being made during this pandemic. Riding along on a wing and a prayer. Pray it stays that way.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451104/nurses-organisation-horrified-at-hundreds-of-daily-visitors-to-patients-at-auckland-dhb

    [link fixed]

    • Cricklewood 10.1

      No visitors is fucking inhumane.

      The issue here is with management of visitors.

      • Incognito 10.1.1

        According to the blog of the Live Update on Stuff by Brittney Deguara (good job!), one of Bloomfield’s staffers has been in contact with the Nurses’ Organisation about the approach to visitors by ADHB and it appears to be consistent with national policy. It will be reviewed and revised by MoH and the updated guidance is expected soon and will apply to all DHBs.

      • Herodotus 10.1.2

        Many of us have had to make concessions eg unable to visit terminally ill, missing funerals of close relatives etc.

        Do we have a 0 risk factor in our elimination strategy or not? I thought we are doing everything possible to eliminate, obviously not everything. Imagine an outbreak as a result of this policy, and being told that Auckland has to stay at level 4 for another month or more. All so a few feel privileged to visit those in hospital, why not at retirement villages where those residence are separated from family ?

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451104/nurses-organisation-horrified-at-hundreds-of-daily-visitors-to-patients-at-auckland-dhb

    • Dawn Trenberth 10.2

      When my parents were going through the illnesses they had at the end of their life they were often in Middlemore. There really isn't enough staff to keep people comfortable only enough to keep them alive. Things like spoon feeding them so they eat, helping them to the toilet rearranging pillows and just reassuring them is something family can do to keep them more comfortable. I think it would be very hard when visitors aren't allowed for vulnerable people.

  10. Cricklewood 11

    My phones relatively new I cant get it to paste links on TS everywhere else is fine my tablet maybe 2 years old I can comment at all with again only on TS

    • Forget now 11.1

      In the tool bars above the typing window, there is a symbol that looks like a diagonal bracket around a slash (the empty diagonal brackets/ chainlink beside it unlinks links from quoted text which saves moderator time). To link you now have to click that and paste the link into the URL box that appears.

  11. I Feel Love 12

    "Nick@StrayDogNZ

    121 of the cases from our recent outbreak have been under nine years old.

    Ardern says they can't be vaccinated, so we must get vaccinated for them.

    If you have any doubts about vaccinations, please, do it for the kids."

    From Twitter.

      • solkta 12.1.1

        Speaking of saving the kids, why are schools still exempt from L2 protocols? So we now have masks and no standing up in buses, unless its a school bus. We now have masks in all indoor venues, unless its a school.

        • Incognito 12.1.1.1

          That’s a little misleading. For example, masks at schools are not mandatory but they are allowed and encouraged.

          https://www.education.govt.nz/covid-19/face-coverings/

          There’s been various statements from Ministers and the likes about school sitations recently again and Google is your friend.

          Lastly, the PM ought to qualify her statement because it is misleading too. That is, if she said those exact words in the tweet.

          • solkta 12.1.1.1.1

            Encouraged is a long way away from mandatory.

            • Forget now 12.1.1.1.1.1

              It'd go a long way to encouraging pre-teens to wear masks if masks of appropriate size were provided for them by schools. My elder child can wear an adult one (with a couple of twists of straps to shorten it), but no chance with my six year old! Her Granny got measurements the other day and is having some sewn for her, but there's a bit of a waiting list for some reason.

              Also the cost is not inconsiderable. A fresh disposable mask every school for two kids would be at least $10/ week. A custom mask (two really needed; so one can be washed while the other worn) would be more initially, but less longterm (except they'd get lost like socks).

              So for a solo parent on a benefit, that's really not possible without cutting into bill money.

              • solkta

                I was thinking more of secondary schools. Children under 12 are not required to wear masks at all.

                My daughter’s school has over 1600 students plus teachers. With all the students passing each other in hallways every hour and forming into different groups for each class there quite some potential to spread the virus.

                I agree that the state should be providing masks for schools to distribute to students. There is a duty of care.

                • Ad

                  Do you want unvaccinated and unmasked children sitting next to your daughter?

                  • solkta

                    I don't want that no. But requiring students be vaccinated in order to attend school is a considerably more complex issue than simply having them wear masks under level 2. If a secondary school student stops at the shop on the way to school or if they use public transport they are required to wear a mask, but not on a crowded school bus and in a crowded school. Schools are already pedantic about their pathetic school uniform policies so adding a mask can't be a big deal from an enforcement perspective.

                    My daughter’s school has brought in a level 2 policy that the students can't leave during the day unless a parent picks them up which is not a level 2 protocol, but do nothing about masks. Well a big F off to that.

    • Ad 12.2

      It's time to talk about vaccine mandates.

      After 9/11 the new regulations to fly on airplanes were huge – the world's travelling people adjusted.

      We need proof of double vaccination for people to attend school, university or polytech.

      Even when we get to 80% vaccination rates nationwide we are going to need proof of double shots to get into a hotel, or bar, or stadium.

      Same for public transport: load your vaccine proof onto your HopCard and SuperGold Card.

      Neither your airline nor your travel insurance provider is going to take freeloaders.

      MoE is considering the ethics of teaching people who don't wear a mask. If they're that keen on not wearing a mask, they can be taught from home.

      It’s going to be just like one’s freedom to smoke: do it by yourself in your own car and own home. Otherwise not.

      Carve out exceptions if you like … but form the rule first.

      • Incognito 12.2.1

        What a load of totalitarian nonsense! Each year, 100s of Kiwis die of the flu and despite safe and effective vaccines being available, it was never made mandatory. Ever. I don’t hope you’re going to suggest that this should be added to the list of mandatory measures, together with meningitis perhaps, and maybe HPV too for good measure. FFS, this is Aotearoa-New Zealand, not some dystopia from a Mad Max movie. The people most at risk of severe illness and death form Covid-19 are the unvaccinated ones. In the current outbreak, most positives are unvaccinated; the actual numbers are somewhere, but I can’t be arsed trying to find them right now.

        • Ad 12.2.1.1

          There was surprisingly muted protest when they brought in biometric chips into passports, iris-reading scanners and full body scanners at international airports. It's a post-9-11 cost of living.

          Did anyone wear a condom before the AIDS epidemic? Pretty standard way of public health now.

          We've given up so many civic freedoms under level 4, we will certainly lose a few permanently to keep the gains we've attained.

          Welcome to the new Post-Covid world of vaccine mandates. Like 9/11 we will follow the US example and see compulsory vaccines first on all health workers, airlines, enforcement staff like Policy and military, then frontline workers, then customer staff, hotel staff, bar staff, …

          …and then all those health insurers are going to remind every single workplace of the premiums all unvaccinated workers will cost them.

          … straight after that Worksafe is going to be part of enforcing the liability of employers for correctly supplied and correctly worn PPE.

          We have a disease that is caused by the movement of people through air. It's not the flu, or meningitis, or chicken pox.

          Aotearoa-New Zealand is going to comply with what the rest of the world tells them to comply with.

  12. Jenny how to get there 13

    The Simpson's call it again.

    https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/mummies-found-with-golden-tongues-in-egypt-city-of-taposiris/?

    Maybe not gold, But Hans Sprungfeld corpse had a silver tongue.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
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    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 days ago
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
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    2 days ago
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
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    3 days ago
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    3 days ago
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
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  • Newshub is Dead.
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  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
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    3 days ago
  • Was Hawkesby entirely wrong?
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
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  • Climate Change: Criminal ecocide
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Is saving one minute of a politician's time worth nearly $1 billion?
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    3 days ago
  • Smoke And Mirrors.
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    3 days ago
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    4 days ago
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
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    4 days ago
  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • True Blue.
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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #15
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    4 days ago
  • Feline Friends and Fragile Fauna The Complexities of Cats in New Zealand’s Conservation Efforts

    Cats, with their independent spirit and beguiling purrs, have captured the hearts of humans for millennia. In New Zealand, felines are no exception, boasting the highest national cat ownership rate globally [definition cat nz cat foundation]. An estimated 1.134 million pet cats grace Kiwi households, compared to 683,000 dogs ...

    5 days ago
  • Or is that just they want us to think?
    Nice guy, that Peter Williams. Amiable, a calm air of no-nonsense capability, a winning smile. Everything you look for in a TV presenter and newsreader.I used to see him sometimes when I went to TVNZ to be a talking head or a panellist and we would yarn. Nice guy, that ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • Fact Brief – Did global warming stop in 1998?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Did global warming stop in ...
    5 days ago
  • Arguing over a moot point.
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    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • No Longer Trusted: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
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    6 days ago
  • Mortgage rates at 10% anyone?
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    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    6 days ago
  • Sad tales from the left
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • In Whose Best Interests?
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    6 days ago
  • Don’t Question, Don’t Complain.
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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Small accomplishments and large ironies
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • The Song of Saqua: Volume VII
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    6 days ago
  • Accelerating the Growth Rate?
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    PunditBy Brian Easton
    7 days ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
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    21 hours ago
  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
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    1 day ago
  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
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    4 days ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
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    4 days ago
  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
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    4 days ago
  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
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    4 days ago
  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Fast Track Projects advisory group named
    The coalition Government has today announced the expert advisory group who will provide independent recommendations to Ministers on projects to be included in the Fast Track Approvals Bill, say RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones. “Our Fast Track Approval process will make it easier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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