Open Mike 09/10/2018

141 comments on “Open Mike 09/10/2018 ”

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1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

   9 October 2018 at 6:40 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/107671519/desperate-and-deteriorating-waikanae-man-moves-in-with-parents-as-last-resort

   Another disabled person abandoned by the system.

   I hope you all at least click the link. Maybe if Stuff highlights more of these stories MSD will be publically pressured to allocate funds specifically to build this type of housing.
2. Ngungukai 2

   9 October 2018 at 7:35 am

   PM quote “New Zealanders are getting fleeced by fuel supply companies ?” I guess she means the ones like Z, BP & Caltex ?
   • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.1

     9 October 2018 at 9:40 am

     44% of the price of a litre of petrol goes to the government. There is a price floor for petrol because of tax. The petrol companies need to make a profit out of the remaining 55% after they purchase it from off shore. then they need to pay tax on that profit. The lower the price of petrol, the greater the tax component.

     seems to be a lot of tax in that comment.
3. marty mars 3

   9 October 2018 at 7:56 am

   Damn the bloody dam!!!

   The Royal Forest & Bird Protection Society of New Zealand Inc has outlined “serious concern” about a local bill designed to enable construction of the proposed Waimea dam, near Nelson.

   On September 19, the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill passed its first reading in Parliament. It was referred to the governance and administration committee, which accepted submissions until midnight on Friday.

   The bill seeks to gain an inundation easement over 9.67 hectares of conservation land in the Mount Richmond State Forest Park, needed for the reservoir of the proposed dam. It also aims to vest in the council 1.35ha of Crown riverbed in the Lee Valley on which the dam will be built.

   In a written submission to the select committee, which it also released to Stuff, Forest & Bird says the use of a local bill “is misguided in attempting to override sound conservation legislation and reduce the amount of public scrutiny that should be given to this activity on public conservation land”.

   …
   National, Labour, NZ First and Act MPs supported the bill at its first reading while the Greens opposed it. Labour Minister David Parker said he didn’t know of a “better water augmentation scheme in New Zealand than this one”.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/107640425/forest–bird-outlines-serious-concern-about-waimea-dam-local-bill

   WAKE UP parker you egg – start thinking of the PEOPLE in Tasman not the money hungry selfish commodifiers. WAKE UP!!!
   • SaveNZ 3.1

     9 October 2018 at 10:22 am

     +100 marty mars – agree WAKE UP labour but I wouldn’t bet on Parker doing the right thing.
   • Bearded Git 3.2

     9 October 2018 at 10:45 am

     This Labour party is about votes not green policies. All the more reason to vote Green in 2 years time
4. SaveNZ 4

   9 October 2018 at 8:01 am

   97% MINIMUM EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS BREACHED BY CHORUS SUBCONTRACTORS!!!!!

   Absolutely disgusting. Also considering how it takes Chorus about 3 or 4 tries before they can send somebody who is competent about time they actually worked out how many of the workers have paid for the job to get residency and actually can’t do the job and are probably paying for the job.

   This is a huge issue for the country. Under the Natz a staggering amount of employment and immigration breaches have been tolerated or indeed encouraged.

   The poor broadband roll out alone is costing the country in lost productivity. It is very difficult to get a decent Internet service around Auckland and a lot of it is the contractors who have now shown the 97% investigated were breaching minimum employment standards!

   “An MBIE investigation into the industry found that 73 of the 75 Auckland-based sub-contractors investigated had breached minimum employment standards. Breaches included employers failing to maintain employment records, pay employees’ minimum wage, pay holiday entitlements, and provide employment agreements.

   E tū Communications Industry Coordinator Joe Gallagher says this is alarming, but not surprising.

   “We have known about the effect of this contracting model since they started it,” says Joe.

   “This model of contracting and sub-contracting has allowed Chorus to pass the buck, resulting in contractors exploiting their workforce to keep to budgets and schedules.

   “It has resulted in terrible outcomes for the affected workers, as well as poor delivery of services in many areas.”

   https://foreignaffairs.co.nz/2018/10/08/mil-osi-new-zealand-labour-inspectorate-chorus-report-alarming-but-not-surprising-e-tu/
   • SaveNZ 4.1

     9 October 2018 at 8:07 am

     The first thing they need to do is put Chorus and their subcontractors on the employment stand down list and ban them from hiring more overseas workers for minimum 5 years!

     Then actually test some of the subcontractors and see how many do not have any skills for the job and work out how many of these unskilled, unlicensed contractors are actually victims of or involved in immigration scams.

     It is amazing how many foreign workers who don’t speak any English from places like Nigeria work for Chorus and also weird how they can’t do the job either and you have to wait weeks for someone else to come and fix the numerous faults that Chorus can’t fix the first, second or third time.

     Even the other providers like Spark and Vodafone and 22 degrees who rely on Chorus are sick to death of them as you have a massive rigmarole to get anything done and you have to go through the provider in most cases!

     Chorus should be voted worst company in NZ and they can’t do their job and when they go bankrupt through their incompetence, hopefully another competent firm can do the job.
     • tc 4.1.1

       9 October 2018 at 10:25 am

       Chorus is what’s left after various telecom managements plundered the customers for large profits without reinvesting in the network. Then it got Chinese walled yet somehow I hear spark still clip the sth cross cable ticket which is network not retail.

       I have sympathy for them as most internet services which perform badly could be down to the retailer failing to manage capacity. Looking at you spark and voda.

       You’ll probably find few faults are actually down to a poor install and the industry is bleeding workers to the NBN in oz who are flashing the cash.
       • SaveNZ 4.1.1.1

         9 October 2018 at 11:35 am

         Yep but my point is, NZ to be competitive needs to raise wages to retain the skilled people, not just rely on cheap bodies to do the work, who actually can’t do it and are paying to get residency in many cases.

         We can’t be competitive with fake internet and phone lines and fake workers!

         Agree the telecom providers didn’t invest either and just are coining the profits and then every day, it just gets worse and worse for customers and business relying on the service and eventually guess what, they move their businesses to OZ or Singapore or apparently even central Nigeria has faster Internet access than Auckland.
         • SaveNZ 4.1.1.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:56 am

           You also wonder how long a company can survive for when you ring their call centre (Spark for example) and wait 1 hour for someone to pick up your call!

           Seriously a telecom company that has a 1 hour waiting time to answer your call!

           And most of them are similar and some (22 degrees I think) , even demand a per minute fee to answer a phone call about their service!

           Something is wrong! NZ is a race to the bottom and our government is obsessed with dirty deals with business for water and oil yet fail to notice the constant routs in banking and telecoms ripping off consumers and businesses for years, decades really, yet another reason why NZ is losing business and productivity with it completely off government radar because they are encapsulated with lobbyists.
5. Adrian 5

   9 October 2018 at 8:07 am

   In our area a Chorus contractor who has had to come out numerous times to fix a common distribution box serving about 50 houses said the problem was that in the Phillipines where he comes from they had gotten rid of that type years ago because it was too old even then.
   • SaveNZ 5.1

     9 October 2018 at 8:09 am

     Ok faulty, banned materials, incompetent illegally working staff, not being able to fix anything for months, sounds like a NZ roll out then of IT funded by taxpayers, from the Natz.
     • Dukeofurl 5.1.1

       9 October 2018 at 8:24 am

       Different problems.
       One is the broadband rollout and the connections to homes- dodgy contractors
       Other one is Chorus own copper network with its ancient tech ..oh and again using contractors but at least these seem to be qualified in copper line phone tech.

       My advice to Adrian, ditch the copper line and go all mobile, some providers even provide broadband services over the mobile system.
       • Carolyn_Nth 5.1.1.1

         9 October 2018 at 9:55 am

         Interesting. I had copper til a month ago.

         It started to play up a few months back. I often couldn’t get a connection after the modem had been shut down for several hours (especially overnight), and I had frequent dropouts.

         After numerous calls and opine chats (the latter often unsuccessful as had dropout in the middle of the chat), Spark sent some Chorus guys (with proviso that if the fault was with my stuff, then it would cost me $80.00 plus labour etc.

         Anyway, 2 Chorus guys came. One spoke English, and they conversed with each other in another language – maybe from Indian sub continent or Indonesia, or somewhere in that region.

         The English speaking guy eventually pronounced they had found a fault with one of my 2 jack points and a cable from it, and had fixed it.

         Well, the dropouts then became less frequent, but I still often had problems getting a connection – though had discovered that when I dialed 123 on my landline, listened to the Spark welcome message for a few seconds, then hung up, I’d get a Net connection straight away.

         Spark then said they could send Chorus out again, but, again it could cost me. I talked to the estate agent property manager who told me something similar had happened to a few of their tenants after fibre had been connected to the tenants building. I was also told that when fibre had been connected to my building last year, they’d done a lot of work on the property.

         Anyway a couple of weeks later, I got an email from Spark saying my copper broadband was going up by $5.00 a month, and that it would be more expensive than fibre. So I did the switch.

         It isn’t noticeably faster or any easier to access online video content – in spite of this article claiming more people are switching to fibre, so must be there’s a growing hunger for more online content.

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=12138863

         I say BS – just a desire for some of us to get a reliable connection.
         • SaveNZ 5.1.1.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 10:08 am

           +10000 – Carolyn_Nth – completely normal – then the consumers end up picking up the tab, again and again. Used to have a fixed phone line, but had to abandon it because it’s a waste of time with Chorus as fixed lines don’t work – wonder why so many don’t have land lines any more in NZ – answer is Chorus incompetence.

           Considering Chorus got 70% of the taxpayer funded roll out of crown fibre, pretty sure that like leaky buildings, we will be seeing big problems down stream as they are big issues occurring even at the start!

           Going for the cheap and unregulated approach works a treat (sarcasm) and ends up being massively expensive as well as not actually providing the service that was needed in the first place, reliably.
         • Dukeofurl 5.1.1.1.2

           9 October 2018 at 10:46 am

           Isnt noticeably faster ?

           Thats because your own old equipment is limiting the service. What is the age of the device you are using . 5 years plus ? I liked my old desktop ( 2012) but I upgraded it both with more memory chips and a solid state drive. That enabled me to disable some tech that chews up the CPU . No compressed memory and no disk caching.

           Even the slowest fibre option which I have with 30Mbs is 10x faster than the old copper network which used to slow to a crawl at night.. But then I dont do a lot of downloads until I got netflix and there is no way the copper would cope and I’m only 1km from the telephone exchange.
           • Carolyn_Nth 5.1.1.1.2.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:04 am

             My main laptop is about a year or two old. My second one is a refurbished offlease SSD which is pretty fast on both copper and fibre. Not much faster on either laptop online.

             But, I probably don’t access a lot of material that requires a noticeably faster system either.
       • SaveNZ 5.1.1.2

         9 October 2018 at 10:19 am

         @dukeofurl, Sadly for consumers Chorus is involved both in the fixed lines and significantly in the crown fibre roll out of Internet.

         It was a good idea by the Natz (the only decent thing Joyce ever did) for the crown fibre roll out, but sadly using Chorus and their Ponzi monopoly and dodgy employment practices has made what should have been a massive success a partial one, with lots of skeletons awaiting at the expense of consumers and businesses in NZ.

         Like other companies that suddenly go under in NZ, Chorus has become an immigration and accounting Ponzi a long while back and held NZ sustainable business growth, back significantly.

         Is it really that hard to hire professional people and vet them to make sure they can do the job and pay to do the job right in the first place ?

         When will NZ even learn, just having a cheap warm body count in the workforce does not actually lead to productivity gains or a finished product (constructions) or service (tech/hospitality)?
         • tc 5.1.1.2.1

           9 October 2018 at 10:36 am

           Joyce also didn’t stop chorus from overbuilding the other non chorus govt funded fibre rollouts.

           Their inadequate duct capacity has opened up the area to other players in dark fibre which thankfully keeps it rolling along.
6. greywarshark 6

   9 October 2018 at 8:28 am

   Checking in on the neighbours
   From The House, 7:30 am on 7 October 2018

   Daniela Maoate-Cox, The House senior producer
   dmaoatecox danielamaoatecox@gmail.com
   A group of MPs from the Labour and National parties have been chosen to visit Vanuatu and Solomon Islands but before they went Daniela Maoate-Cox asked why the trip is necessary.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-house/audio/2018665221/checking-in-on-the-neighbours

   Why not ask to go to Nauru and offer the island some help so they are not dependent on Australia and under their thumb? Then we can release the prisoners from the concentration camp and have to nurse them back to near normality and hope.
   It would be a sign that we can be humanitarian.
   • Dukeofurl 6.1

     9 October 2018 at 10:36 am

     nauru is 11,000 people who pissed away their wealth but still have a better standard of living than their neighbours. Closing the camps just means Australia will shift them elsewhere

     Solomons is 600,000 people who are dirt poor.

     Thats a correct choice to pick the most needy population.
7. greywarshark 7

   9 October 2018 at 8:31 am

   Bring back the stocks and whipping for destructive useless men (and women) who vandalise and destroy.l
   A man has attempted to climb and has broken a Len Lye sculpture in Wellington – costing much money, has injured himself, costing us hospital time and dollars.

   What would be better is having safe places and counselling for people with mental problems that can be improved and controlled without medication. I think that a farm where the men can be kept enclosed where they can work and have decent conditions and attention as needed.
   • marty mars 7.1

     9 October 2018 at 10:21 am

     Whipping, stocks, camps – sounds pretty retrograde and scarey.
8. greywarshark 8

   9 October 2018 at 8:42 am

   Something to act on! Think, plan and act quickly on something perhaps!

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/368231/climate-target-not-viable-for-nz-economy-expert
9. marty mars 9

   9 October 2018 at 10:06 am

   “Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says New Zealand seems to be playing catch up when it comes to instilling indigenous cultural values into the prison system.”

   https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MjAyOTg/Grizzly-bear-guards-for-indigenous-prison

   No, no and no again. This is COMPLETELY BOGUS. Try not putting people in prison especially indigenous people’s. Ffs
   • Antoine 9.1

     9 October 2018 at 10:14 am

     When they don’t commit crimes

     A.
     • marty mars 9.1.1

       9 October 2018 at 10:18 am

       Racial profiling
       • Antoine 9.1.1.1

         9 October 2018 at 10:26 am

         Very few people of any ethnic group get put into prison in NZ without committing a bunch of crimes

         A.

         (Now maybe some crimes shouldn’t be crimes, but that’s a different matter)
         • marty mars 9.1.1.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 10:36 am

           Prove it.
           • Gosman 9.1.1.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 10:46 am

             Prove what?
             • marty mars …

               9 October 2018 at 11:07 am

               Prove what what?
           • Antoine 9.1.1.1.1.2

             9 October 2018 at 10:47 am

             Disprove it! Point at lots of indigenous people, in prison in modern NZ, who have not committed either a serious crime, or lots of crimes.

             A.
             • marty mars …

               9 October 2018 at 11:08 am

               Fail. Not proof – try again brainbox.
       • shadrach 9.1.1.2

         9 October 2018 at 10:28 am

         Marty you seem to be the one who introduced ‘race’ with your comment “Try not putting people in prison especially indigenous people’s.” The punishment should fit the crime, not the race or ethnicity of the perpetrator.
         • marty mars 9.1.1.2.1

           9 October 2018 at 10:36 am

           Yes in wonderland. In the real world ALL indigenous populations devastated by colonisation suffer disproportionate numbers, compared to other groups, of their members arrested, charged and put into prison. This is a FACT.

           Note – “instilling indigenous cultural values into the prison system” is the context.

           Perhaps you should read or watch a bit. Moana Jackson has some nice videos that might help try Google.

           https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/moana-jackson-prison-should-never-be-the-only-answer/

           http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/latest-news/time-abolish-prisons-moana-jackson
           • shadrach 9.1.1.2.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:31 am

             “In the real world ALL indigenous populations devastated by colonisation suffer disproportionate numbers, compared to other groups, of their members arrested, charged and put into prison. This is a FACT.”
             No, it isn’t. At least not the ‘devastated by colonisation’ bit. Colonisation in the 19th century does not make anyone commit a crime in the 21st century, and if you excuse crime on that basis you end up with this https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/indigenous/colonisation-no-excuse-for-violent-crime/news-story/25770058c2fa144581d9084175048a3e.

             “Note – “instilling indigenous cultural values into the prison system” is the context.”
             And I don’t have a problem with that. What I object to is your suggestion that indigenous people should somehow be treated differently to the rest of the population regarding sentencing.
             • marty mars …

               9 October 2018 at 11:39 am

               I didnt say that. ffs I want EQUALITY. Are you saying that the extremely high % of Māori men and women in jail, compared to % of Māori in society, is because they are treated the same as other ethnic groups? Why are the percentages different then?
               • shadrach …

                 9 October 2018 at 4:58 pm

                 “I didnt say that. ffs I want EQUALITY. ”
                 Same here.

                 “Why are the percentages different then?”
                 It’s a complex issue, but blaming events that happened up to 170 years ago is unhelpful. I like a lot of what is covered here https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/05/maori-zealand-prisons-160525094450239.html
       • Molly 9.1.1.3

         9 October 2018 at 11:50 am

         marty, you may want to include a link like this so people have some idea where you are coming from: Justspeak publication 2012: Māori and the Criminal Justice System: A youth perspective
         • marty mars 9.1.1.3.1

           9 October 2018 at 1:42 pm

           Yeah good point thanks. Although I quite like seeing what people assume.
     • SaveNZ 9.1.2

       9 October 2018 at 10:44 am

       There is clear institutional racism in the NZ justice system but it’s a problem bigger than justice – the problem needs to be unraveled as a whole because there are so many things wrong with our current system and priorities of government.
   • Dukeofurl 9.2

     9 October 2018 at 10:32 am

     “This is COMPLETELY BOGUS. Try not putting people in prison especially indigenous people’s. Ffs”

     Thats just a fanatsy , most people in prison are in there for violence and the rest are who have stolen large amounts of money or atrocious drink driving records or scores of burglary convictions.
     • marty mars 9.2.1

       9 October 2018 at 10:38 am

       Rubbish. Try reading the context. Hint “instilling indigenous cultural values into the prison system”
       • Dukeofurl 9.2.1.1

         9 October 2018 at 10:49 am

         really . Buzz words make people like you feel good but dont change peoples lives.
         • marty mars 9.2.1.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:46 am

           You can’t even get to ‘buzz words’ – I don’t think you even know what the hell you’re talking about in this sub thread. What is the reason Māori are negatively disproportionately represented in prisons? Do you want to make prisons indigenous cultural paradises? Or do you want to stop people going to prison in the first place? It’s not fucken rocket science mate.
           • Dukeofurl 9.2.1.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 3:42 pm

             You did specifically refer to ‘instilling indigenous cultural values’

             And this works how ? Its a prison, Im not opposed to indigenous cultural values but what ever way you do it rehab can only work if they really want to.

             meanwhile just from today- some one who you think shouldn’t be kept in prison ?
             https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/107699652/woman-kidnapped-beaten-forced-to-take-drugs-and-sexually-assaulted

             Go ahead , say ‘lock him up’…. I know you can do it.
     • arkie 9.2.2

       9 October 2018 at 10:44 am

       How are you certain of your description of the people in prison?

       Prisoners may be convicted of offences across multiple categories. This information is based on the most serious offence a prisoner is convicted of.

       https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research_and_statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_june_2017.html

       Indigenous people are undisputedly imprisoned more than other groups;

       “Māori are significantly over-represented in our prisons. While only five percent of Māori come into contact with the justice system, they make up 50 percent of our prison population,” David Rutherford said.

       “Over 60 percent of prisoners have a learning or mental health disability. I believe that better identification of these issues early on will mean the lives of most of these people will stay on track. Many of these people simply shouldn’t be in prison.”

       https://www.hrc.co.nz/news/un-report-says-nz-must-improve-many-areas/

       What’s this ‘fantasy’ you speak of?
       • Antoine 9.2.2.1

         9 October 2018 at 10:53 am

         > https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research_and_statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_june_2017.html

         Your link shows that 80% of people in prison are there for “violence, sexual offences, dishonesty” or “traffic” (presumably intoxication related) offences. Is that inconsistent with what Dukeofurl said?

         > Indigenous people are undisputedly imprisoned more than other groups;

         I don’t think anyone’s contesting that.

         A.
         • arkie 9.2.2.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:04 am

           You have collected 3 separate categories into your 80% The majority of prisoners are not imprisoned for violence which is what Duke asserted. Duke also said:

           and the rest are who have stolen large amounts of money or atrocious drink driving records or scores of burglary convictions.

           I don’t know where this info came from.

           Also Duke is contesting that, as are others in this thread. Duke called it a fantasy.
           • Dukeofurl 9.2.2.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:24 am

             Didnt say majority , said most. And its true 60% are sexual or physical violence that includes murder and homicide which could be around 500 prisoners for those two offences alone.

             Who in their right mind wouldnt would be saying prison isnt the answer for these sort of offences.
             • Dukeofurl …

               9 October 2018 at 11:43 am

               arkie seems to think the 20% that are sexual offences are ‘not violence’ ?

               This is the sort pig ignorant attitudes you have then its hardly worth discussing.
               Are you thinking that because they didnt struggle enough it wasnt rape or sexual assault.
               Unbelievable .
             • arkie …

               9 October 2018 at 11:58 am

               Didnt say majority , said most.

               most
               greatest in amount or degree.

               “they’ve had the most success”
               synonyms: nearly all, almost all, the greatest quantity/part/number, the majority, the bulk, the lion’s share, the mass, the preponderance
               “she spends most of her time in London”

               the majority of; nearly all of.

               “the two-pin sockets found in most European countries”
               synonyms: nearly all, almost all, the greatest quantity/part/number, the majority, the bulk, the lion’s share, the mass, the preponderance
               “she spends most of her time in London”
               • Dukeofurl …

                 9 October 2018 at 3:27 pm

                 So are you catfishing veutoviper then ? Wouldnt surprise me
                 • arkie …

                   9 October 2018 at 3:36 pm

                   Excuse me?

                   I am not VV and you don’t know what catfishing is.

                   You are attempting to derail by smearing me.

                   Take a deep breath.
       • Dukeofurl 9.2.2.2

         9 October 2018 at 11:00 am

         yes . Most of the people have serious violence or scores of previous convictions ( which means the non prison sentences havent ‘worked’)

         Your numbers have 40% for violence , 20% sexual offences.

         So those two types of violence are 60% right away – which is what I said
         Dishonesty is 20% which means scores of burglary convictions per prisoner or stealing very large amounts of money – often from the community.

         The real problem is men, who are often affected badly by drink or drugs so they commit offences …over and over.
         • arkie 9.2.2.2.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:05 am

           I don’t find the level of info about the crimes that you seem to in those stats
           • Dukeofurl 9.2.2.2.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:26 am

             Percentage of Prisoners According to Most Serious* Offence Type

             Its in the link if you tried to read it.

             Do you have trouble with % too? ….sheeesh.
             • arkie …

               9 October 2018 at 11:55 am

               which means scores of burglary convictions per prisoner or stealing very large amounts of money – often from the community.

               The real problem is men, who are often affected badly by drink or drugs so they commit offences …over and over.

               Where do you get this information from?
               • Dukeofurl …

                 9 October 2018 at 12:07 pm

                 Ask the judges . have you never been in a courtroom for a day ?

                 It figures if you have led a cotton wool life and dont even read the papers.

                 I dont know what ideas you are advancing by quibbling over what the definition of violence is or what the background to far too many offences are or whether 60% is a majority.

                 these arent some numbers from a cricketers annual. real people are affected by violence
                 • arkie …

                   9 October 2018 at 12:15 pm

                   So you acquired this information from asking judges?

                   I’m asking you to clarify because you asserted that Marty was fantasising about the over representation of Māori prisons. You then mentioned what you thought their crimes were. I’m just asking you where you got these ideas.

                   Real people are affected by over-incarceration.
                   • Dukeofurl …

                     9 October 2018 at 12:21 pm

                     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/107699652/woman-kidnapped-beaten-forced-to-take-drugs-and-sexually-assaulted

                     ‘A gang member who abducted a woman and subjected her to a night of sexual assault, threats, violence and forced drug-taking has been jailed for six years and five months….. and as the court heard had relapsed into regular methamphetamine use.
                     “Stephenson, a member of the Filthy Few gang ….”

                     Dont be a dickhead arkie . These are real people and you are talking
                     contemptible nonsense.
                     By showing you cant even add up % shows the level of your knowledge
                   • Antoine …

                     9 October 2018 at 12:24 pm

                     Thank heavens for the 3 strikes law

                     A.
                   • arkie …

                     9 October 2018 at 12:27 pm

                     So proof by anecdata then?

                     Your knowledge is prejudice
                   • Antoine …

                     9 October 2018 at 12:31 pm

                     @Arkie. Stop quibbling. The numbers are out there.

                     For instance Duke said “the real problem is men, who are often affected badly by drink or drugs”. A quick google search finds that “about 80% of crime occurs under the influence of alcohol and drugs or is commited to feed an addiction” – this is from Roger Brooking on Pundit (https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/explaining-nzs-record-high-prison-population), who is anything but a lock-em-up-and-throw-em-away-the-key guy.

                     I could go on.

                     A.
                   • Dukeofurl …

                     9 October 2018 at 3:38 pm

                     Arkie is a new name for VV , who wants to derail the thread by stealing Gosmans gallop
                   • Antoine …

                     9 October 2018 at 10:58 pm

                     My gosh no, Veutoviper is 1000x smarter

                     A.
         • SaveNZ 9.2.2.2.2

           9 October 2018 at 12:40 pm

           Weird how there does not seem to be much interest in preventing the drugs getting into NZ in the first place in fact under globalism it seems to be yet another thriving industry going from strength to strength.

           Didn’t the colonists of old, give small pox blankets to the locals to help them in the take over?

           Then it comes out that the meth test standards the woke lefties meet far righties decided were pretty much made up and no scientific evidence for it – but a lot of state house land sold and people evicted, which certainly benefited a few interested parties, in particular politicians and consultants and developers.
     • SaveNZ 9.2.3

       9 October 2018 at 10:46 am

       @Dukeofurl, Sadly the. people stealing the most money from NZ seem to be outside our justice system and are actually celebrated or under the radar or benefit from generous loop holes in the law to allow the stealing to continue.
       • SaveNZ 9.2.3.1

         9 October 2018 at 10:59 am

         Then there has become a secondary justice issue of giving very light sentences to fraudsters who are based overseas or just arrived in NZ or commit crimes for years between the countries without detection. .

         The bizarre message seems to be, come to NZ and steal money and break our laws here… (since we already have enough criminals ourselves born here, not sure why our government and immigration seems hell bent on adding and encouraging more criminals into NZ – compete with OZ and Asia maybe for corruption, (sarcasm) who knows!)

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11905478

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11842563

         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/365583/punjabi-singer-gets-home-detention-for-drivers-licences-bribes

         Indian woman faces deportation after losing more than $30k to ‘parasite’ scammers
         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/366859/indian-woman-faces-deportation-after-losing-more-than-30k-to-parasite-scammers

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11842563

         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/365583/punjabi-singer-gets-home-detention-for-drivers-licences-bribes

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12077932

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11905478

         Migrant worker describes ‘modern day slavery’ scam
         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/339373/migrant-worker-describes-modern-day-slavery-scam

         Sushi restaurant owner to pay $30k for exploiting workers
         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/321156/sushi-restaurant-owner-to-pay-$30k-for-exploiting-workers

         Jailed trafficker committed ‘crime against human dignity’
         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/320465/jailed-trafficker-committed-'crime-against-human-dignity‘

         https://www.hindustantimes.com/world/indian-sentenced-to-life-for-murdering-wife-in-nz/story-MpDOdR9DJXcKI2pkfpBTMK.html

         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335932/human-trafficking-definitely-a-problem-in-nz

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12111595
         • SaveNZ 9.2.3.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:30 am

           Another one,

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/82387108/did-fraud-suspect-joanne-harrison-approve-her-own-leave-then-flee-nz

           If you try look up Maori and even Pakeha offenders for these types of crimes they seem to be punished more severely for similar or smaller impact crimes.

           The guy that did the Fonterra hoax for example gets 8 years prison while the Chinese turned NZ resident with previous violence convictions actually handled stolen honey worth $40k but only given a fraction of that as a fine and no prison? It was just pocket change for him to pay the fine.

           Where is biosecurity in that context with people obtaining illegally gotten NZ produce and then repackaging it and redistributing it with the potential hazards? (honey can kill you in some circumstances if it has a certain bacteria in it and loss of NZ reputation aka the Fonterra hoax guy who got 8 years prison for not actually doing the crime aka not contaminating the milk ).
           • Dukeofurl 9.2.3.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 12:16 pm

             Conspiracy type crimes are always treated much harsher than others and this was a blackmail offence rather than biosecurity

             So you dont think threatening to poison baby formula isnt all that serious.

             Judge didnt think so.

             ‘Justice Geoffrey Venning said it was “near the most serious case” of its kind
             as he didnt just write a letter he sent baby formula laced with 1080.
             The case had to be treated as though he had done it.
             • SaveNZ …

               9 October 2018 at 12:46 pm

               The Kiwi guy got 8 years in prison for threatening to do a crime NOT doing the crime, but the Chinese guy did get caught red handed in the crime which he DID do and actually did threaten NZ honey industry, but just got a small fine, lower than the stolen honey so actually profited still even after being caught and no jail time at all.

               Likewise the Indian guy that profited from the fake drivers licences also got no jail time and not even a fine so he got away with tens of thousands of dollars of bribes. But god knows how many people have been injured or killed by his greed in traffic accidents.

               In sentencing, Judge Johns described Brar as a 25-year-old with potential. She gave him time off for his previous good record and his early guilty pleas.

               The judge also did not follow the recommendations of the pre sentencing which wanted much harder penalty.

               Can anyone see a Maori youth being described like that by a judge if they were involved in $60k of bribes and then judge then allows them to pretty much get away with it?

               Where is the incentive to stop these crimes in our justice system from migrants screwing NZ over, because I don’t see any. It’s being minimised and encouraged by our justice system and police and immigration and government.
   • Gosman 9.3

     9 October 2018 at 10:39 am

     Why should indigenous people be treated any different to other people in relation to whether they get put in prison?

     If you think prison is not the correct place for people then it should be avoided for ALL not just some based on their cultural background.
     • solkta 9.3.1

       9 October 2018 at 10:44 am

       Why should indigenous people be treated any different to other people in relation to whether they get put in prison?

       I think that is the point that marty is trying to make.
       • marty mars 9.3.1.1

         9 October 2018 at 10:47 am

         Thank you and yes. ‘Trying’ being the operative word.
         • Antoine 9.3.1.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 10:49 am

           Oh well, that I can agree with

           A.
           • marty mars 9.3.1.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:10 am

             Good you get the point now. Sheesh took you long enough.
             • Antoine …

               9 October 2018 at 11:43 am

               So this is the thing Marty, if you say “Try not putting people in prison especially indigenous people”, everyone thinks you mean that indigenous people should not be imprisoned even when they commit serious crimes.

               If you instead lead off with “I want equality” and “indigenous people should be treated the same as other people”, a lot of wrangling will be avoided.

               A.
               • marty mars …

                 9 October 2018 at 11:53 am

                 I am flabbergasted that people thought that. Just shows my self disclosed Māori voice is often misunderstood. Kia ora to those who got it.
                 • Antoine …

                   9 October 2018 at 11:57 am

                   Now you get it.

                   And further, when people hear Andrew Little talking about wanting to reduce the prison population by 30%, they think he means not putting people in jail even when they have committed a serious crime. Or letting serious criminals out early.

                   Hence much of the apparent right/left divide on the subject.

                   A.
                   • Antoine …

                     9 October 2018 at 12:02 pm

                     Having said that, isn’t this cool?

                     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107556399/prison-population-drops-by-seven-per-cent-in-six-months-system-crisis-averted

                     I’d love to know more about it. In particular, exactly how did they achieve the reduction in the prison muster.

                     A.
                 • McFlock …

                   9 October 2018 at 2:42 pm

                   Don’t be flabbergasted. It’s a typical tory reaction.

                   The only people they see going to prison are Very Bad People, because their mate who committed a wee bit of white-collar fraud only got homeD or a couple of years at most. They don’t see the fact that benefit “fraud” is treated more harshly than tax evasion. They don’t see the impact of little offences here and there meaning that someone doesn’t get “good character” credit. They don’t get that not knowing how to wear a suit or not having “respectable” people as character witnesses can all skew judicial attitudes. They don’t get that “not looking right” means more police attention which means a greater number of arrests, even if the actual offence rate were lower or the same.

                   It’s just like how they think other ideas about equity/equality mean “levelling down”, rather than “building up”.

                   Bunch of small-minded fuckwits.
                   • Dukeofurl …

                     9 October 2018 at 3:34 pm

                     Tax evaders go to prison- why on earth would you think they dont
                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11998205
                     Tradies sentenced to jail for $1m tax evasion
                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12110217
                     Mortgage broker sent back to prison for tax evasion
                     https://www.interest.co.nz/business/96070/owner-no-stress-decorators-has-been-sentenced-26-months-prison-after-failing-file-any
                     The owner of ‘No Stress Decorators’ has been sentenced to 26 months in prison after failing to file any tax returns

                     yes its harsh for extreme cases of benefit fraud who go to jail, maybe they have previous convictions. Most just have to repay the money when they fall foul of a complicated and ponderous system.
                   • McFlock …

                     9 October 2018 at 3:37 pm

                     google for a NZ study on sentencing discrepancies between tax evasion and benefit fraud. I seem to recall it was even covered on this very site.

                     ICBF googling it for you.
                   • patricia bremner …

                     9 October 2018 at 11:16 pm

                     This is so right. It remains stunning that we accept these attitudes.
                     Our acceptance of slights inequalities and sheer cruelty, is mind blowing.

                     Several Maori friends did not live to get the pension. They live shorter lives!! This is NOT assessed in their pension payments.

                     Laws are based on Christian western dogma, seldom on cultural values. So many hurdles to be overcome.
     • mauī 9.3.2

       9 October 2018 at 11:04 am

       So you won’t address a fundamental problem in our criminal justice system because of some One Nation ideology / “We are all One people” racist BS… Ok…
       • Gosman 9.3.2.1

         9 October 2018 at 11:07 am

         If your issue is with locking too much people up then whether or not they are ‘indigenous’ is irrelevant. Deal with the underlying issue and don’t attempt to have a justice system treat people differently because of an accident of birth.
         • solkta 9.3.2.1.1

           9 October 2018 at 11:08 am

           don’t attempt to have a justice system treat people differently because of an accident of birth.

           No attempt needed. We already have that.
           • Dukeofurl 9.3.2.1.1.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:31 am

             A judge will look at the crime and the previous criminal history. Discounts come for pleading guilty early enough, remorse when interviewed by probation.
             Where maori miss out is lack of things like references from people in community and sometimes cant make reparation.

             Its quite analytical. Doesnt have ethnicity in it. However we do have a history of too easily imprisoning maori which has carried through to today because they will have existing convictions.
             • solkta …

               9 October 2018 at 11:34 am

               Its quite analytical. Doesnt have ethnicity in it.

               Yes God you must be right, knowing the inner workings of all those brains and all.
         • mauī 9.3.2.1.2

           9 October 2018 at 11:29 am

           The issue of locking too many people up seems to be your issue, as you seem to want to use that as a way to ignore that we lock up too many Māori.

           If you want to address our inflated prison numbers then a major underlying issue is that too many Māori are in prison and you would need to address that.
           • Dukeofurl 9.3.2.1.2.1

             9 October 2018 at 11:37 am

             Our issue is we have too much crime. Gangs are portion of that and that connects to both Maori and polynesian gangs.
             European gangs are far smaller.
             • SaveNZ …

               9 October 2018 at 1:31 pm

               “Hong Kong triads are working with some of New Zealand’s most notorious crime gangs to cash in on the country’s growing methamphetamine business.
               Organised crime groups the 14K, Sun Yee On, Water Room, and Big Circle Gang all have a presence in the country and most recently gangsters from Fujian have become prominent. They work with New Zealand’s most powerful organised crime groups, the Headhunters and Hells Angels, buying and selling the addictive hyper-stimulant.
               Police in New Zealand say indigenous gangs saw the profits to be made from methamphetamine and realised they needed contacts to buy the drug, or its main ingredient, pseudoephedrine, from a source country like the mainland. Quickly, Asian organised crime groups became crucial players in the drug trade and over time their international links made them the real power brokers.

               ‘Commodity is power,’ Detective Senior Sergeant Chris Cahill, of the Auckland Metro Crime Squad told The New Zealand Herald. ‘The Asians have the commodity. So they have control.'”

               https://www.scmp.com/article/724511/asian-drug-links-reach-south-meth-deals
               • SaveNZ …

                 9 October 2018 at 1:34 pm

                 New Zealand did not register on the international drug market until the millions of dollars being made from methamphetamine grabbed the attention of bigger players overseas. Police here do not call them “triads”, as they’re referred to in popular culture, as the hierarchy here is a fluid, molecular structure rather than the traditional pyramid but the links to notorious international syndicates are real. Gangs like Hong Kong-based 14K, rival Sun Yee On, Water Room, and Big Circle have all had a presence here, as well as Malaysian, Thai, Taiwanese and Vietnamese gangs.

                 There is plenty of business to go around. Police and underworld sources agree that the organised Asian criminal groups “sit around the board room table together” with the local gangs, rather than starting a turf war, in the interests of making money.

                 Nothing is worse for the drug business than violent crime, such as the death of Prutsiriporn.

                 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11604108
                 • CHCOff …

                   9 October 2018 at 2:51 pm

                   That’s a concern when the tppa kicks in, that the situation gets exacerbated more. That type of corruption could pretty quickly over run the corruption that we already have to the political system, which was already pushing NZ into abit of an anarchic breakdown state of affairs.

                   Once that type of corruption got a foothold, it’s not like NZ has a KGB type of tradition that would be capable of clearing it out.
                   • SaveNZ …

                     9 October 2018 at 3:28 pm

                     All the fraudsters are rushing into government departments and jobs to make money from bribes, been going on for decades now but increased significantly with Natz help.

                     You used to be able to pay a bribe and then get a state house for example, the British women who helped herself and gave her relatives fake jobs and took nearly 1 million under the nose of the new governor general while also committing benefit fraud, the cash for fake licenses, god knows how many corrupt or receiving cash payoffs in police and justice system and the councils are bound to be rife.

                     However I believe the worst pushers of TPPA are the Kiwi born neoliberals and politicians both local and government who are refugees from the Rogernomics era and never left their cushy job from the 1980’s.

                     Turns out that the free water to the Chinese was actively encouraged by NZTE for example…

                     https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/07/nz-government-officials-caught-red-handed-helping-chinese-companies-take-nz-water/

                     If only the NZTE traitors could live in the real world and swap places with the Chorus subcontractor would be illuminating for those government advisors …. rather than having a huge army of nobodies in Wellington crunching out the same shit for decades and being lapped up by governments as the only thing they know.
               • greywarshark …

                 9 October 2018 at 4:52 pm

                 I heard a sound bite of someone phoning an order through for drugs from some Asian country. Yes, how much was the approach. Don’t know how the payment was made but I understand that it is easy to order and there seem to be numerous ways to deliver it.

                 If people have a job and a life, they would limit their drug taking no doubt, but so much opportunity for a good life has been withdrawn from low income NZs and they have established a sub-culture. so have to be treated as addicted and helped rather than criminalised. (We all have a tendency to be addicted to some habit, some have the habit of passing stern judgments on others as losers!)

                 It is interesting to read Alan Duff’s Out of the Mist and Steam where he talks about his journey through his culture to where he is now. It was unique journey and not easy.

                 On Trademe – reliable NZ seller – $4 start and closes tomorrow – postage $4.50
                 Out Of The Mist And Steam – ALAN DUFF
                 Listing #: 179042211
   • adam 9.4

     9 October 2018 at 4:49 pm

     Well said marty mars.

     Kaua e mate wheke mate ururoa
10. Observer Tokoroa 10

    9 October 2018 at 10:07 am

    BUT greywarshark

    New Zealand is the place where you can do anything you like. Such as bash your baby against the wall.

    Kill people on the road. Dozens of them.

    Bash up Teachers, and Nurses. Terrify shop owners.

    Booze yourself stupid – particularly if you are female – with children. Plus Bastard Fathers.

    Eat all sorts of Lethal Drugs to make yourself mental – and become a Zombie

    Build leaky Buildings. Build Leaky homes. Under pay Staff.

    This is Aotearoa Greywarshark. Greed, Rape, Thieving, Murder and Destruction are the constants of life here.

    Aoteraoa stands for no Accountability. No Decency. No Punishment. No Shame.
    Aoteraoa truthfully stands for personal and mass Horror.
    • Antoine 10.1

      9 October 2018 at 10:15 am

      I have to say I would have trouble getting away with some of this, but YMMV

      A.
      • Drowsy M. Kram 10.1.1

        9 October 2018 at 10:45 am

        Profiling aside, which comment(s) would you not have trouble getting away with?

        D.
        • Antoine 10.1.1.1

          9 October 2018 at 10:50 am

          I could terrify a shop owner on a good day (if they were quite small and easily alarmed)

          A.
          • SaveNZ 10.1.1.1.1

            9 October 2018 at 11:24 am

            If they banned cigarettes and alcohol from shop owners would solve a lot of problems but apparently that is where all the profit is.
            • adam 10.1.1.1.1.1

              9 October 2018 at 12:50 pm

              All, no ‘only’ is the word you look for SaveNZ for dairy owners.
              • SaveNZ …

                9 October 2018 at 1:25 pm

                I think it’s the dairy owners that seem to be robbed the most and petrol stations… or places that have those items… but maybe there are those going about robbing fashion outlets, who knows.

                It’s the above lobby group full of dairy owners that seem to be campaigning the most for lock em up justice.

                They even started their own party… a bit of a stumbling block there though

                “A New Zealand political party’s general secretary has been charged over failing to properly declare more than $200,000 in donations.

                Police charged New Zealand People’s Party general secretary Anil Kumar Sharma with breaching the Electoral Act by failing to correctly file details of significant donations with the Electoral Commission.”

                “The People’s Party target voter base is mainly migrant voters and its focus was law and order following a spate of aggravated dairy robberies and taxi driver muggings.

                Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has previously called the party “a National Party front”.”

                The charges were filed in the Auckland District Court last Friday, while the case will be heard again later this month.”

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12137518
                • adam …

                  9 October 2018 at 4:53 pm

                  That escalated…

                  My comment was about the fact that dairy owners are not making much money these days, and that cigs and alcohol have good margins (everything else has tiny margins) and they bring in loyal customers.
          • Drowsy M. Kram 10.1.1.1.2

            9 October 2018 at 4:32 pm

            So you could (on a good day) terrify a small and easily alarmed shop owner, but how would you get away with that, i.e. what’s stopping the shop owner from dobbing you in?

            Maybe an otherwise good customer, from a ‘good family’, etc.?

            D.
            • Antoine 10.1.1.1.2.1

              9 October 2018 at 10:57 pm

              White privilege mostly

              A.
              • Drowsy M. Kram …

                10 October 2018 at 11:37 am

                A!

                D.
    • greywarshark 10.2

      9 October 2018 at 5:00 pm

      Observer T
      Don’t laugh at what I say, I am sure that you are being sarcastic. All that you write has happened. We have to look at it and try and rise above it, not mock those who draw attention to it and what needs to be done to prepare for the various trials that climate change plus the broil of political and immoral misdeeds will bring.

      I know a lot of bad things happen in NZ. I get upset but still hold onto the knowledge of good people I have dealings with and meet here. So after getting down, I come up with hope and work with those good people. I keep on trying but I don’t fool myself that everyone wants to live in a country that offers reasonable quality and respect. And it is sad that so many won’t bite the bullet and prepare for a harder future and try being the good citizen.
11. ankerawshark 11

    9 October 2018 at 12:18 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/107697600/rose-matafeo-victim-of-racist-roast-on-comedy-central

    This is seriously brilliant and seriously funny. Matafeo owns it big time.

    Not sure how to get rid of the add, but its about breast cancer and mamograms, so a good add to watch anyway.
12. CHCOff 12

    9 October 2018 at 12:38 pm

    It is the future first world cultural striving of gender equality that is in the best sense of, for example, a trad. Aryan aesthetics to an unquestionable type of corporate structure.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20181008/too-many-hans-and-not-enough-women-in-german-government-roles

    The world is forever seeking to hold and grasp, Freedom and Adaptability/Efficiency, & the above is the modern symbolism to that.

    It is the New Zealand traditional egalitarian spirit, (which many immigrants will not readily understand) that has given the entrepreneurial class the massive opportunity to have these societal Values assocated with their products which as a nation who’s relative power will only ever be that derived from trade, is what should be getting built upon rather than the anarchist slash and burn neo-liberal nothing burger nation.
    • Antoine 12.1

      9 October 2018 at 1:00 pm

      Wut?

      A.
      • Gabby 12.1.1

        9 October 2018 at 8:08 pm

        Chcoffoffy limits him/herself rigorously to an abstract noun quota of 98%.
13. chris73 13

    9 October 2018 at 3:01 pm

    So random question time but does anyone have any good links to websites on how to pronounce (and preferably the meaning of) maori words and phrases

    I’ve tried searching youtube but I don’t seem to be getting anywhere so I’m wondering if anyone on here can help

    Cheers
    • SaveNZ 13.1

      9 October 2018 at 3:13 pm

      https://maoridictionary.co.nz

      They also have an awesome AP you can put on your phone.
      • chris73 13.1.1

        9 October 2018 at 3:32 pm

        Thanks for that, thats exactly what I was looking for. I’ve got a job interview coming up and part of it is:

        ‘Understand and demonstrate the kaupapa values of the Department- Whanau, Kaitiaki, Rangatira, Manaaki and Wairua’

        So this will help immensely

        Cheers
        • patricia bremner 13.1.1.1

          9 October 2018 at 11:21 pm

          Don’t forget to practice them
14. OnceWasTim 14

    9 October 2018 at 4:20 pm

    Hard to know where to begin.
    Should it be the continued muppetry in central government agencies – such as Trade and Industry encouraging the sale of water; or should it be to do with Chorus subbies being royally ripped – all alongside the public servant (Stu Lumsden’s) assurance that we had “enough Labour Inspectors” just shortly before the election; or perhaps the state of Wellington’s bus ‘debacle’ – you know – that ‘space’ where we have a wee bit of a problem.

    I thought I’d just pop up to Newtown (Constable Street) from Mount Victoria where what I needed to do would normally have been completed within the hour. I’d try out GRWC’s new improved service. Under the old system, that would have been completed within an hour.
    I never realised just how bad this complete FUCKUP is. I left home before the nauseating ‘old school’ Jessie Mulligan kicked in after 1pm., before he had to don his lycras and bike up the hill to Teev 3. Midday Report was still rolling – in fact I think Maddison Ready was referring to the exceptional expertise of someone from Craig’s Investment Partners, giving what we were expected to believe was some sort of impartial and valuable take on the state of the meerkats.

    3.30pm, I’ve arrived home. The majority of it I walked.
    The only people I encountered not fussed on that journey was a guy on a Gold Card taking his mum for a day out on a bus journey. And she’d obviously lost the plot a few years back (not unlike my mother). Why they could even get a ride from the southern suburbs on the flat, up to Kingston. I think routes 23 and 29 figured in their journey.
    Meanwhile, others crowding the Newtown footpaths who simply wanted to get to Courtenay Place needed a transfer if they didn’t want to wait what transpired was up to half an hour.
    And while we watched the info boards (after having been told we’d have to walk down to the next stop), one #1 was Sched, then disappeared, and then 3 #1 services to places north turned up almost together.

    Sorry mate. It’s not JUST about implementation despite your creds, it’s the entire project from start to finish, and perhaps you should have had the gumption to check the requirements before you began your design.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08-10-2018/
    at 15 and below, and my comment at 15.2 seems all the more reasonable.

    I’m going to be waiting for the next lot of spin with phrases like “change averse”.
    Already there’s been a consultant telling us it’s all about implementation rather than design.
    FUCK ME with a feather duster. Sometimes the bleeding bloody obvious seems to escape many. Oh, and for the privilege of taking advantage of this new improved service I’m expected to believe is superior to what happened before, as a cash fare payer, the fare is 25% more expensive.
    NEVER AGAIN.
    A bloody case study in how NOT to do things.
    Lucky for GWRC and its verbally flatulent apparatus they’ve been given till December. THe longer it goes on, the worse it gets
    • Kay 14.1

      9 October 2018 at 4:59 pm

      @OOTim. Not batting an eyelid here unfortunately. I’m pleased to report I was able to get from Kilbirnie to Mirimar very successfully yesterday, but there’s still severe apprehension every time a bus trip is needed, even a short hop like that one (I allowed myself 45mins to get there). I have however had to stop going out in the evenings altogether now for the foreseable future due to the very real risk of being stranded far from home after dark.

      It will be interesting to see if this driver’s strike goes ahead. Even as someone totally dependent on buses, I’d actually quite like to see the entire bus network taken out of action for a week and see if the resulting chos would be enough to force central Govt to take over.
    • greywarshark 14.2

      9 October 2018 at 5:04 pm

      Once was Tim
      I am a newcomer to Wellington and was travelling in Constable Street just recently. I was worried about a hub transfer but didn’t need one on my route thank goodness. You have my sympathy and i heard two drivers talking and they were confused and unhappy too. All the best.
      • OnceWasTim 14.2.1

        9 October 2018 at 5:58 pm

        Yep well, when all said and done, a bloody MINOR inconvenience by comparison with Chorus contractors being exploited, people trafficked (yes right here in ‘lil ole NuZull), and public servants flogging off water to the highest bidder and at the expense of those paying for the positions representing a public they’re expected to serve.
        And as I listen to Checkpoint, I’m kind of wondering why it’s taken this long for some of them to now feel comfortable enough to state the bleeding obvious publicly (such as a Devoy and a Lumsden).
        Again!!! time for some analysis of what’s all gone wrong in our public service over the past decade or so.
        (https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/07/nz-government-officials-caught-red-handed-helping-chinese-companies-take-nz-water/#comment-441531)

        The good thing is I’m now fairly sure the coalition is beginning to wake up, and recognise that in many circumstances the advice of their “officials” is not always what it seems to be.
15. Ed 15

    9 October 2018 at 4:28 pm

    The world is burning.
    Yet the Herald is leading with this as news.
    A headline that reflects the selfish first world problems that trouble its readers.
    As Draco repeatedly says, we can’t afford the rich.

    “Air New Zealand’s Koru Club full: Passengers diverted to airport’s Strata Lounge.”
16. Morrissey 16

    9 October 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Nike: “Just Do It.” Jeremy Corbyn’s desperate
    and cynical enemies: “Just Smear Him.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpbLt-Wad6Y
17. Morrissey 17

    9 October 2018 at 5:10 pm

    Profiles in Courage. NOT
    No. 3: Sen. SUSAN COLLINS

    cowardy-custard n., A coward; a timid or fearful person (prob. suggesting trembling in fear like a custard wobbles.)

    ….Collins’s wholehearted embrace of these vapid GOP talking points is emblematic of her entire justification for supporting Kavanaugh, which basically consisted of her closing her eyes and plugging her ears to information that would prove inconvenient to the creation of a conservative Supreme Court majority. The “process has finally hit rock bottom,” she said. That—not Kavanaugh’s lies, or his troubling judicial record, or Ford’s credible testimony about what he did to her—was what Collins felt the need to lecture Americans about.

    Her choice is so disappointing because her Republican colleagues—the McConnells and Grassleys and Grahams of the world, who long ago turned into cartoonish, misogynist supervillains—are honest about who they are and what they want. Collins, who helped save the Affordable Care Act, and sometimes tut-tuts about President Trump, and has proven herself capable of abandoning the stock GOP position, is not. Like Jeff Flake and Ben Sasse and Joe Manchin, she cares far more about appearing moderate and independent than doing things that a moderate, independent legislator would do.

    https://www.gq.com/story/susan-collins-is-no-moderate-brett-kavanaugh

    Profiles in Courage. NOT is an occasional series commissioned by Daisycutter Sports Inc. to highlight the moral (and sometimes physical) cowardice of politicians and their lackeys.

    No. 2: Simon William “Bill” English
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18022017/#comment-1300686
    No. 1: Justin Trudeau
18. joe90 18

    9 October 2018 at 5:24 pm

    TS’s very own malignant anti-semite was triggered, too.

    President Donald Trump’s Twitter attack last week on George Soros set off a round of anti-Semitic attacks on the Jewish financier, as well as authoritarian calls from key Trump supporters for the president to use state power to freeze or seize Soros’ assets.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2018/10/08/president-trump-opened-gates-wave-authoritarian-and-anti-semitic-attacks-george-soros/221606
19. Observer Tokoroa 19

    9 October 2018 at 5:51 pm

    Hi Greywarshark

    I don’t write with sarcasm. I just use actuality.

    That is, I observe exactly what is taking place.

    Wish you well.
20. eco maori 20

    10 October 2018 at 8:34 am

    Kia ora Newshub its a incredibly hard for all the USA ambassadors with the trump rhetoric . Some time’s I think when pointing out the gop flaws this alert some to there reality ??????? but no they will lose .
    It’s cool the Indian Wahine are standing up for there right’s no one else will
    MANA WAHINE.
    I’m sure ancient India treated there wahine with much more respect than how they are treated at the minute kia kaha .
    Grant Robertson is the best qualified person to run the Crown’s book’s enough said.
    My offspring were all grown up before that smacking law came in .
    Most time’s when a child is playing up they just need one to come down to there level and talk to them they are just seeking attention give them more attention .
    I try not to take my mokopunas into shop’s when we look after them we do but only when we are buying them stuff.
    Loan shark’s need to be brought into line ka pai.
    That’s the problem with the World’s economy people who have the least money are charged the highest interests and people awash with money pay next to nothing that has to be reversed.
    There you go alcohol has a direct LINK to domestic abuse the data curves will follow the same trajectory up with the sales curves that is one reason this problem has not gone down alcohol lobbing all lobbing should be banned I could never handle hang overs.
    To the TAX working group increase the tax on alcohol and watch our bad stats drop that’s a logical move.
    Space travel is part of our future you know who Eco is backing why because if it was not for him no one would making as much electric cars as is all the rage at the minute .
    Xero accounting soft ware is a awesome product we have brought the other brands in the past we end up using excel and stop using them but Xero make’s accounting as easy as child’s play.
    Ka kite ano
21. eco maori 21

    10 October 2018 at 11:06 am

    It give me a sore face when I see that more Kiwis are taking their retirement savings seriously one need to put money away for when they get older as no one else will do that for you Ka pai .
    A %7 increase is awesome lump sum payments up % 39 they are making these payments so they get all the government’s Kiwisaver subsidy there is a lot of good data coming out of this story .Kia kaha kiwi’s ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/107710637/kiwisaver-lump-sum-deposits-pour-in-for-taxpayer-subsidies
22. eco maori 22

    10 October 2018 at 11:19 am

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCob76kigA
23. eco maori 23

    10 October 2018 at 11:37 am

    Here is a story that gives me hope for a happy healthy prosperous future for ALL OUR Mokopuna’s
    The Dutch Court rules in favour of OUR environment . The whole World will have to follow suit and work together to save our grandchildren’s future environment Kia kaha
    Ka kite ano link is below

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/09/dutch-appeals-court-upholds-landmark-climate-change-ruling
24. eco maori 24

    10 October 2018 at 12:04 pm

    I remember when I was 8 there was a new kid in our class she was Indian all the other kid’s picked on her I would tell/make them leave her be next minute my
    Grate grandmother and I were going to her birthday her dad is still the whano doctor.
    Kia kaha to the Indian METOO movement that’s the way make your men see that with out you they would have nothing . And you wan’t your voices heard links below Ka kite ano.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/india-has-metoo-moment-as-claims-of-sexual-misconduct-reach-government
25. eco maori 25

    10 October 2018 at 12:08 pm

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/09/himtoo-metoo-tweet-pieter-hanson-mothers-attack-on-feminism-movement-goes-wrong

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJOTlE1K90k
26. eco maori 26

    10 October 2018 at 12:44 pm

    I agree with the most of this story the whole Papatuanuku need to plant billions of tree’s I say and cut carbon use how.
    A carbon tax and all the money is poured into saving our existing forest & plant new forest invest heavily into renewable energy
    Link is below ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/09/shell-ben-van-beurden-mass-reforestation-un-climate-change-target
27. eco maori 27

    10 October 2018 at 12:53 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5tWYmIOWGk
28. eco maori 28

    10 October 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Eco Maori tau toko this Idea totally urban orchards it will give healthy food for the needy all our councils have to do is change the types of tree’s they plant in and around te mokopuna’s play areas in places were its safe for people to pick them . link below
    Ka kite ano many thanks for this story I say go one better and have urban vegie gardens to P.S The shops won’t lose to much profts

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/food-news/107735320/why-its-time-for-new-zealand-to-embrace-urban-orchards
29. eco maori 29

    10 October 2018 at 3:54 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aGlcUK_GkM
30. eco maori 30

    10 October 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Kia ora te maori TV I say online troll’s bulling is a big problem in Aotearoa at the minute
    As soon as there is a story about maori issues the troll’s jump onto the comments page and start spewing there racist rubbish .
    But I say one has to be careful when trying to make law’s to curb this problem that the laws are not used to silence free speech so I say be real careful what one wishes for ka kite ano.
31. eco maori 31

    10 October 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Kia ora Newshub that’s a nice big fine to stop the loan sharks predators $600 k that will make them think twice before they rip our people off .
    Its cool Peter Jackson’s films he has added color to the old films I have been looking at NZONSCREEN and some of those need a brush up the sound on some are bad to.
    Ka pai.
    Tongan fans for the Tongan League team are staunch and proud wish them all the best.
    Wow a new high rise building for Tamaki makau rau that looks like a cool design with a green floor ka pai .
    With the Sydney Opera house issue Allan Jones is not as popular as him and his m8 think enough said .
    Many thanks to Sea World people in Australia for saving the pepe Whale it was quite a dangerous task what I will say is animals have intelligence. They said the mother Whale new they were helping her calf . She could have easy squashed them.
    Vector lines company well if you got fined I say you have not maintained the asset correctly . They have to have people checking the lines are not in danger from trees falling on them and cutting power this is the main cause of power cut’s in bad weather .
    Daved Bowie was a artist who broke the mold for music like a few of his pears I liked his music It will be a bit old for the new generation .
    Did you see my pick of music this arvo .
    Andrew we are going to have a good couple of weeks of League Ka pai
    Ka kite ano
32. eco maori 32

    10 October 2018 at 7:19 pm

    Kia ora The Crowd Goes Wild James & Mulls all the best to the Breaker’s .
    Mulls did James jandles get caught in some wires .
    Congradulations to James sisters for having a new baby us men don’t know how easy we got it I get a reminder every now and then lol.
    Kangaroos well Mal Meninga he is a great Australian indigenous role model for all
    te mokopuna’s can’t say to much.??????? but I have a great memory.
    Thats the way the wahine Black ferns kia kaha
    Sam E hoa I get sore neck its a pain hurt it chasing my younger brother jumped a fence caught my foot on the fence and head butted the rock hard dirt bounced up and caught him. It did not start playing up till I got long in the tooth lol.
    Ka kite ano P.S I did not kick his ass all though I wanted to

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