Open mike 09/07/2012

136 comments on “Open mike 09/07/2012 ”

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1. muzza 1

   9 July 2012 at 7:24 am

   “I can’t quite believe it,” Mrs Johnson said. “I am so thrilled that the biscuits are back.

   “Nearly 15,000 people voted for the biscuit’s return after Upper Hutt mother Amber Johnson started a Facebook page titled Get Griffin’s To Bring Back Choco-ade”

   NZH, and the average Kiwi – Example of why progress is so difficult in this country!
   • freedom 1.1

     9 July 2012 at 7:56 am

     this will cheer you up muzza, or send you postal,
     ( i find those emotions overlap so often these days )
     http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/3228913/Facebook/
     • Vicky32 1.1.1

       9 July 2012 at 5:58 pm

       Hilarious, Freedom! I shared it on Facebook… 🙂
2. mickysavage 2

   9 July 2012 at 7:52 am

   The odious Garth McVicar and the Sensible Sentencing Trust are going to review the Scott Guy Murder case.

   The interview (not on line yet) involved McVicar hinting darkly at the right to silence and how this is an impediment to the course of Justice.  There is one slight problem with this comment, Ewen McDonald spent hours talking to the police about the case.  This was all recorded and shown to the jury.  So not only did he not exercise his right to silence but he even admitted some offending to boot.

   He also hinted darkly at evidence being excluded and has promised the people of New Zealand a full review.

   The obvious tenor of McVicar’s comments was that justice demanded and required a result.  No matter how weak the Crown case was.
   • Pete George 2.1

     9 July 2012 at 7:58 am

     Sounds like more McVicar and the Sensible Sentencing Trust talking up false hopefor those who want a legal outcome (especially for victims), completely contrary to sound legal practice.
   • ad 2.2

     9 July 2012 at 9:03 am

     I hated the tone of unrestrained glee McVicar had on National Radio this morning.
     Like he had to wipe saliva off his mouth every second breath.

     Surely the right place for anything further would be a civil action?

     I can only expect after this he will be courted to stand by New Zealand First. Or National.
     • Populuxe1 2.2.1

       9 July 2012 at 10:32 am

       Amazing how quiet he was on the matter of his mate Graham Caphill’s trial, eh.
       • Olwyn 2.2.1.1

         9 July 2012 at 10:57 am

         Nor does he seem to have hung around outside the courthouse to court the Korean man who was run over by a white banker. And let us not forget his defense of the man who stabbed a little tagger to death in South Auckland. This guy is actually an opponent of sound legal practice, favouring an “us versus them” approach, and is very rarely called to account for it. Last night I saw an episode of 60 Minutes in which Greg king was interviewed (I cannot link it because it does not appear to be up yet). He was asked to account for himself every step of the way, which he did very ably. In comparison, McVicar is generally left free to rant against every principle upon which the legal system is based.
         • Dr Terry 2.2.1.1.1

           9 July 2012 at 11:35 am

           McVicar and his awful “Trust” are perpetually courted by the media for “expert opinion”, and thus unfortunately encouraged. I am sorry for any family that calls upon him for support (or did he foist himself upon them?) Believe it or not, true experts are available, if only people and media will seek them out.
           • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 1:16 pm

             Believe it or not, true experts are available, if only people and media will seek them out.

             The difference is that the true experts can’t afford to put themselves in the media as they’re actually doing important stuff with the limited funds they have. The SST’s funding is, on the other hand, almost entirely for massaging the media so that they get heard. Which means that when people do need expert help in criminal matters they go to the one they’ve heard of – the SST – which probably doesn’t have a single expert in it.
       • mike e 2.2.1.2

         9 July 2012 at 4:55 pm

         pop or was that david garretts
   • Vicky32 2.3

     9 July 2012 at 6:01 pm

     The odious Garth McVicar and the Sensible Sentencing Trust are going to review the Scott Guy Murder case.

     I heard about that on the radio this morning. What on earth? What does he think gives him the right?
     • Vicky32 2.3.1

       9 July 2012 at 6:02 pm

       I just got told that I was guilty of some evil behaviour and had to do a recaptcha! Why? Please, this is the umpteenth time in  weeks, it’s needs fixing!
       • McFlock 2.3.1.1

         9 July 2012 at 6:07 pm

         meh – I think it’s linking that does it. 
         Quite a good idea – it stops the robots adding spam links, although it doesn’t stop failed united future candidates…
          
     • Vicky32 2.3.2

       9 July 2012 at 6:13 pm

       In fact right now, they’re on 3 News right now, claiming that McDonald was silent! I didn’t follow the trial as I was fed up with it right from the start, but I read above that he wasn’t silent so ???
3. Pete George 3

   9 July 2012 at 7:53 am

   Peter Dunne had a chance to explain his (and United Future’s) position on asset sales on Q+A yesterday.

   SHANE TAURIMA

   Good morning, Peter Dunne. Thank you for joining us. You’ve been under a bit of fire lately for supporting the state asset sales. Was it a hard decision to mae?

   PETER DUNNE – United Future Leader

   No, it wasn’t. In fact, United Future and its policy as long ago as 2005, had said while we opposed wholesale asset sales, we were not against floating shares in selected state assets. We had the same policy in 2008, had the same policy in 2011. I enunciated it on the leaders debate in this very studio in 2011. So it was not a difficult decision to make. What’s been surprising, though, is that no one seemed to notice that we were honouring a policy commitment we put in place three years ago.

   SHANE You weren’t swayed by the polls, public opposition or indeed your electorate?

   PETER No. In fact, in every electorate meeting during the campaign, this issue was raised. I set out the position exactly as I intended to follow, what our policy was. I was re-elected with an increased majority. We concluded in our confidence and supply agreement statutory limitations. The National Party previously wasn’t in favour of putting into law the 51-49 10 split. That was put in the confidence and supply agreement. Utterly transparent and public. I’m one of these old fashioned people that believes that if you say something, you stand by your word. If you make an agreement, you keep it, and that’s exactly what I’ve done.

   News report, video and transcript: http://yournz.org/2012/07/09/peter-dunne-on-qa/
   • mickysavage 3.1

     9 July 2012 at 8:00 am

     Pete George, the energizer bunny of the blogosphere who keeps going and going and going and going …

     This is a straw man argument Pete.  The basic problem is that under economic, financial, environmental and security of energy supply considerations this is a really stupid policy.  You can’t argue against that although you will probably try.

     Did the coiffured one promise hand on heart that no matter how stupid or ludicrous the privatisation proposal was he would back it no matter what?  If this is what you are saying then it is the dumbest policy ever support by a political party. 
     • ropata 3.1.1

       9 July 2012 at 8:16 am

       but micky, p.dunny knew asset sales was a shit policy and he is a hero for adding a tiny clause to the legislation. never mind the fact that his election campaign stated uf was against privatisation. the good folk of ohariu would all have read the uf small print, and thus they endorse the asset stripping of nz.
       • freedom 3.1.1.1

         9 July 2012 at 8:42 am

         cue PG with
         ‘ but but but but but but but but it is a Mixed Ownership Model! That’s not privatisation! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh why doesn’t anybody listen to me, oh and i want you all to know i am working hard on your behalf to change nothing in particular or achieve anything of any great importance but by gum i will let you know how difficult the challenges facing us are and if we all would just pull together and do exactly as i say then nothing will change but we will have lots of new ways to distract each other from the endless mountain of crap my efforts have created’
     • tc 3.1.2

       9 July 2012 at 8:31 am

       The coiffured one is effectively a NAT stooge just like Banks is and will do whatever he is told to do or lose the baubles of ministerial trappings, he has presided over the meanest and most dishonest government in memory who are selling us out with his support….say no more.
     • Bored 3.1.3

       9 July 2012 at 10:38 am

       PG sort of reminds me of Oscar Wilde on fox hunting (the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable)…perhaps the implausible in defense of the ingenuous. Any advances?
   • felix 3.2

     9 July 2012 at 8:50 am

     What a load of shit, Pete.

     I think the people have had far too much of politicians who say one thing before an election and then weasel word after it. In fact, I must be the only politician being criticised for keeping his word.”

     The lying prick knows full well, as you do, that his electioneering material was very carefully crafted to loudly and boldly proclaim ‘WE WILL NEVER SELL WATER, KIWIBANK, OR RADIO NZ’, while whispering softly ‘but everything else is on the block, and ps when I say water I’m not counting the water in the hydro system ie most of our water’.

     He’s not being criticised for keeping his word Pete, he’s being criticised precisely for weasel- wording. He’s a deceitful, manipulative weasel and a nasty piece of work.
     • ad 3.2.1

       9 July 2012 at 9:05 am

       I agree with everything you say.

       But a minor question for 2014: would you prefer Peter Dunne to sustain a Labour-Green coalition, or that guy from Mana?

       It may come to these odd choices.
       • marty mars 3.2.1.1

         9 July 2012 at 9:12 am

         I agree with felix too.

         If a slightly leftish coalition needs dunne it is fucked. Much better to work with a true left movement like Mana that will put some backbone into them and hopefully move any coalition lefter.
       • felix 3.2.1.2

         9 July 2012 at 9:30 am

         If it came to that I’d prefer Mana. I don’t like everything that comes out Harawira’s mouth but at least you know what you’re getting.

         And as marty says, any govt led by Labour will need its support parties pulling it leftward economically, not rightward, if it’s to achieve much.

         I have concerns about some of Harawira’s conservative views on social issues but there are plenty of liberal voices in Labour, the Greens, and even in his own party to counter that.
         • ad 3.2.1.2.1

           9 July 2012 at 9:36 am

           Just get ready to hold your nose either way when the time comes.

           Personally (because this morning I can forecast the future) I think we are heading for one of those 1996-type elections where the remaining minorities get to determine the fate of the larger parties’ reach for power.
           • marty mars 3.2.1.2.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 9:42 am

             which Mana policy gets up your nose ad or do you just dislike Hone?
             • ad …

               9 July 2012 at 10:07 am

               For me personally beyond the Greens and Labour they’re all a bit too odd.
           • McFlock 3.2.1.2.1.2

             9 July 2012 at 11:24 am

             FWIW I prefer to be offended by someone with principle rather than a pointless shill. The elevation in class just makes the entire experience more enjoyably visceral.
             • Ad …

               9 July 2012 at 6:41 pm

               God if only the majority in the Labour caucus thought like you. They don’t. Remember when Helen Clark spoke of the Maori party as “Not even last cab off the rank”?
       • mickysavage 3.2.1.3

         9 July 2012 at 11:29 am

         would you prefer Peter Dunne to sustain a Labour-Green coalition, or that guy from Mana?

         
         Good question Ad, I would prefer Hone any day of the week.  At least he works from well understood principles and has the interests of ordinary people at heart …
         
         • Pete George 3.2.1.3.1

           9 July 2012 at 1:14 pm

           I’ll address ad’s question in detail later..
           • felix 3.2.1.3.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 7:19 pm

             Which means ‘I’ll waffle about some other crap tangentially related to Ad’s question and see if I can slip in a few nasty snipes at Labour and the Greens’.
         • Anne 3.2.1.3.2

           9 July 2012 at 8:00 pm

           +1 mickeysavage

           Remember when Helen Clark spoke of the Maori party as “Not even last cab off the rank”?

           Correct me if I’ve got it wrong Ad, but are you suggesting the Maori Party and the Mana Party are on an equal ideological footing? Although Helen Clark was savaged by all and sundry for her comment “the last cab off the rank”, time has proved she was 100% correct. The Maori Party have shown themselves to be nothing more than brown Tories who were/are happy to betray their own people for a few personal baubles and beads.

           IMO Hone Harawira’s stature has increased significantly since the formation of the Mana Party (the real Maori Party) and I note David Shearer has acknowledged as much in one or two recent comments. I think it is highly likely Labour would be happy to include the Mana Party in a Labour-led coalition government.
     • Pete George 3.2.2

       9 July 2012 at 9:53 am

       He’s not being criticised for keeping his word Pete, he’s being criticised precisely for weasel- wording. He’s a deceitful, manipulative weasel and a nasty piece of work.

       felix – but look at who’s criticising him. A few anonymous people on a blog. No evidence presented, just ‘opinions’ used in in attack that seemingly deliberately keep ignoring clear facts.

       The Q+A researchers would have been aware of what he would claim and prepared no challenge. Shane Taurima didn’t challenge it. Stuff haven’t challenged it:

       SUPPORT FOR SALES ‘GOES BACK THREE YEARS’

       Facing a highly organised campaign against him in his electorate, United Future leader Peter Dunne is understandably finding the focus on his support for the Government’s asset sales legislation a tad tiresome.

       When asked by TVNZ’s Q+A if voting for the Government’s mixed-ownership model was a difficult decision, he responded: “No, it wasn’t … what’s been surprising, though, is that no-one seemed to notice that we were honouring a policy commitment we put in place three years ago.”

       He said United Future had never opposed floating shares in some state assets.

       http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7243462/Today-in-politics-Monday-July-9

       I asked a different Felix (Marwick) a while ago why the MSM weren’t interested in smear campaigns on blogs.

       I’m sorry to say there’d be limited news interest, if any, in the debates about the accuracy of comments made on political blogs. In this case Dunne’s position has been accurately represented in the media and that’s where it’ll have been most noticed.

       I’m sure more people are aware of Dunne’s position on asset sales via what’s been printed and broadcast in mainstream avenues than they’ve been influenced by whatever comments have been made by authors at The Standard.

       Continued claims of things like “deceitful, manipulative weasel and a nasty piece of works” are in a small echo chamber here and reflect more on those who keep making unsubstantiated accusations.
       • Te Reo Putake 3.2.2.1

         9 July 2012 at 10:05 am

         Mate, the only small echo chamber here is you. And if TS is so lacking in influence, how come you carpet bomb the threads here every day? And one more question. If UF was in favour of asset sales, why didn’t they campaign on it? As you know, the UF literature and TV ads were silent on it and Dunne only made a couple of vague references to the issue in the entire campaign. He dishonestly allowed the belief that his one man party was opposed to the sales, when he knew that his salary depended on them going through. The man’s a weasel and a humbug.
         • ad 3.2.2.1.1

           9 July 2012 at 11:01 am

           Quite an echo-chamber for the highest-rating progressive site in the country, number three or four on the table of any blogsite, and from what I hear of Labour’s caucus, feared by all those in caucus who ought.
         • Pete George 3.2.2.1.2

           9 July 2012 at 11:01 am

           On cue my point is supported. Thanks.
       • McFlock 3.2.2.2

         9 July 2012 at 11:27 am

         A less patsy question would be “surely your support for the National Party’s asset sales, as they announced prior to the election, is contrary to your repeated position of keeping national in check. Or did that just apply to things National weren’t going to do anyway?”
         • Pete George 3.2.2.2.1

           9 July 2012 at 3:49 pm

           UF (with some help from The Standard) kept National in check exactly as we said we would. UF negotiated a C&S agreement on minimum ownership (51%), National actually changed it through a cabinet decision to voting rights only, and UF enforced the agreement and had it changed back to ownership

           http://yournz.org/2012/06/21/politicians-journalists-and-bloggers-fix-mom-bill/
           • McFlock 3.2.2.2.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 3:56 pm

             Nice of Dunne to correct their grammar and punctuation for them. 
             Shame the essay is repulsive. 
             • felix …

               9 July 2012 at 4:48 pm

               Remember also that Dunne wanted any single overseas owner to be able to own 15% of the shares.

               The Nats, being apparently slightly less bloodthirsty than Dunne on this aspect of privatisation, managed to talk him down to 10%.
       • felix 3.2.2.3

         9 July 2012 at 12:01 pm

         Pete, we’ve been over this plenty of times. Yes, if you look hard enough at the literal interpretation of the language you could conclude that Dunne supported privatising everything except water, kb, and rnz.

         The focus however was always on saving three particular assets, not on selling the rest of them. The way this was presented is the very definition of weasel wording.

         And I know you know this yourself, because it took you the best part of a day to find any references to his pro-privatisation policies when challenged.
         • Pete George 3.2.2.3.1

           9 July 2012 at 12:15 pm

           The focus however was always on saving three particular assets, not on selling the rest of them.

           Ah, yeah, that’s because the United Future emphasis was on United Future policy. I think you’ll find other parties tend to promote their own policies most too.

           The reason why it took a while to find references was:
           – it wasn’t a full time job, I fitted it in when I could
           – there weren’t many references BECAUSE it was never an issue that was raised because it didn’t concern anyone then.

           PETER DUNNE: In fact, in every electorate meeting during the campaign, this issue was raised. I set out the position exactly as I intended to follow, what our policy was.

           I have never seen any credible dispute of this. Even Ohariu People’s Power accepted this as indisputable.

           If there was any evidence supporting your case don’t you think it would have been found and trumpeted loud and wide now?

           You continue repeating your argument against known evidence and with no evidence to support your case.

           You’re the one trying to weasel something out of nothing on this.
           • felix 3.2.2.3.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 1:18 pm

             Pete, the evidence I’ve presented is the United Future campaign videos and print material. It is entirely consistent with everything I’ve said and you have entirely failed to even address my argument. Every time.

             And enough of the bullshit about you “fitting it in” when you could. We all watched you run around madly trying to find references. You were doing it here, in public. I’ll save you the embarrassment of posting a link for now but I don’t recommend repeating such an obvious lie so soon after the event.
             • Pete George …

               9 July 2012 at 2:03 pm

               We all watched you run around madly trying to find references.

               You’re making things up again felix. But it’s worth noting that I did find references. Something you have failed to do.

               Did you go to any of Dunne’s campaign meetings? Any campaign meetings where there was a UF candidate? I expect if you had and you had evidence to back up what you keep repeating about you would have said it by now. But all you have uis your ‘opinion’.

               I’m sure if Dunne was guilty of your accusations Charles Chauvel and Gareth Hughes would have been all over it, as would at least one Standard author.

               But there’s nothing. Nothing from the parties. Nothing from the mainstream media. Nothing except a few anonymous repeating commenters.
               • felix …

                 9 July 2012 at 3:37 pm

                 I presented my evidence and my analysis and conclusions. If you disagree with my analysis then dispute the contentious aspects of it, dick.
       • felix 3.2.2.4

         9 July 2012 at 12:05 pm

         ps I’m very pleased to learn that Pete George now considers posting on The Standard to be a waste of time and look forward to him backing up that opinion by fucking off forthwith and posthaste.
         • Pete George 3.2.2.4.1

           9 July 2012 at 12:19 pm

           You’re making things up again felix. You’re again claiming something falsely or incorrectly.

           You seem to have some intelligence and are sometimes are very pedantic with specific meanings of phrases, so my opinion tends towards deliberate misrepresentation, it’s hard to see it any other way.

           It’s not a waste of time pointing this out.
           • McFlock 3.2.2.4.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 12:23 pm

             pete continues yodelling in an echo-chamber…
             • marty mars …

               9 July 2012 at 12:43 pm

               he’ll probably do his version of bohemian rhapsody soon

               Is this the real life?
               Is this just fantasy?
               Caught in a landslide,
               No escape from reality
               Open your eyes,
               Look up to the skies and see,
               I’m just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
               Because I’m easy come, easy go,
               Little high, little low,
               Any way the wind blows doesn’t really matter to
               me, to me
               • prism …

                 9 July 2012 at 1:10 pm

                 marty mars
                 Any way the wind blows doesn’t really matter to
                 me, to me
                 It does if its a fart.
                 But I like your choice of verse. It’s a different way to being terse.
                 • McFlock …

                   9 July 2012 at 2:53 pm

                   Commenting in rhyme
                    
                   Might be sublime, 
                      
                   But it’s not as cathartic
                      
                   As just abandoning concepts such as rhythm and style and just swearing at some fucking obtuse moronic trool.
                   • QoT …

                     9 July 2012 at 7:42 pm

                     Now THAT’S poetry.
           • felix 3.2.2.4.1.2

             9 July 2012 at 1:20 pm

             Sure Pete.

             But if this place is just an echo chamber and nothing of any consequence happens as a result of anything written here, why bother correcting me?
             • Pete George …

               9 July 2012 at 2:05 pm

               Becasue you keep giving me the opportunity. Thanks.
               • felix …

                 9 July 2012 at 3:51 pm

                 Wow. Sometimes I think you’re just taking the piss, but I’m beginning to wonder if you really aren’t aware of all these inherently contradictory statements you keep making.

                 How does it feel to willing spend so much time writing in a pointless meaningless echo chamber for no purpose?
         • prism 3.2.2.4.2

           9 July 2012 at 1:04 pm

           “You’re making things up again felix.” Besides wishing for PGs absence, which would not make the heart grow fonder, can you think of some viable relief?
       • mike e 3.2.2.5

         9 July 2012 at 5:02 pm

         Peters Groupie You can’t even get your idol’s facts right obviuosly you didn’t watch Q&A.
         Wait until I tell Dunny.
         Dunny said that he had been pushing that policy in ohairyu for the past 3 elections.
         Not 3 years .
4. Bored 4

   9 July 2012 at 10:56 am

   Been off the air for a while….in which time I contemplated a number of mindsets that keep the rank and file in line with received wisdom no matter how unreal it is.

   I saw a bit of Max Keiser on a MSM hosted talk show being accused of being a “ conspiracy theorist” for pointing out the very obvious fraudulent behavior of the Wall St bankers. Labeling somebody a conspiracy theorist is the ultimate smokescreen for the avoidance of reality by the mainstream media. And Joe Average is so bloody dumb he takes the easy route of not questioning but agreeing. Its a form of abrogation of personal responsibility to question: political power certainly does not want Joe questioning.

   Then there is the pukesome Godwin crap. I see a f**scist yet I cant call them on it. Give me a break.
   • muzza 4.1

     10 July 2012 at 7:42 am

     Yes, it seems that the only defense for the establishment is to use the CT call as some sort of way to throw the sheep off the scent, it seems to be working still, and the message was obviously given to Key, as he used the term multiple times of late.

     The Keiser comments are interesting in that it shows explicitly who is really pulling the strings in the background. The cross over of finance and media working together to label as a, conspiracy theorist, Max Keiser, for commentating on the crumbling financial systems, the destruction ofwhich is the result of the greatest conspiracy every being pulled off. The irony of the MSM comments are immense, not to mention the hypocracy!

     Keiser did not “invent” the stories, they are in fact happening in real time. People who use the term conspiracy theory, lack the intelligence, and or the mental strength/self esteem, to question what is in front of their face.
5. Tiger Mountain 5

   9 July 2012 at 11:04 am

   Jeez, various site statistics at the Standard blog hardly portray a “small echo chamber” Pete, quite the reverse.

   The obsequious Dunne will not be judged well in history by many New Zealanders for his sell out self serving actions.
   • Pete George 5.1

     9 July 2012 at 11:16 am

     To clarify – The Standard is a significant and significantly sized forum, the largest catering for mainly leftish views.

     The “small echo chamber” comment refers to a vocal but small subset of The Standard commentariat.
     • McFlock 5.1.1

       9 July 2012 at 11:29 am

       So it’s a small echo chamber in a large forum?
            
       Wouldn’t that make it a cone of silence?
       • prism 5.1.1.1

         9 July 2012 at 1:06 pm

         😀
     • Lanthanide 5.1.2

       9 July 2012 at 11:36 am

       “The “small echo chamber” comment refers to a vocal but small subset of The Standard commentariat.”

       Given that something like less than 1% of readers actually comment, it doesn’t matter if it’s only a “small vocal subset” of people that post any particular content here, because there’s a large readership.

       Surely that’s why you keep peddling your crap here. Although I would hope that a lot of readers do what I do and skim, or skip, your comments entirely.
     • mickysavage 5.1.3

       9 July 2012 at 11:40 am

       Petey, Petey, Petey, Petey …
        
       Your original comment this morning has generated considerable response that essentially can be categorised into two different types:
        
       1.  The coiffured one may have well indicated support for MOM type privatisation but this does not mean he had to sign up to every single MOM privatisation proposal, especially the really silly ones.
        
       2.  There may have been this policy in the fine print but whenever the coiffured one spoke he made it sound like he was against privatisation of strategically important assets.  He then turns lap dog and lets them go through.
        
       You as a self confessed opponent of “politics as usual” and talk about “smear tactics” but then denigrate various commentators, presumably including myself, as being part of a “small echo chamber” suggesting that their thoughts are not their own without addressing their concerns.
        
       See the problem?
       • Pete George 5.1.3.1

         9 July 2012 at 12:25 pm

         The problem is micky – you’ve got it wrong. You’re a part of the small echo chamber here that keeps peddling misinformation that isn’t taken seriously elsewhere.

         The more you do it the more you confirm your own futility. Important people in Labour don’t even push your lines.

         Can’t you try something that will actually help Labour rebuild and prepare for government? Surely that’s a party priority?
         • McFlock 5.1.3.1.1

           9 July 2012 at 12:47 pm

           Surely you should direct your petey powers of polling perspicacity towards helping United Future achieve 1% at election time? Oh, you did. How did that go for you?
           • Pete George 5.1.3.1.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 1:08 pm

             UF maintained the same number of seats and gained influence from the last election. How did that go for Labour?

             I’d like to see UF support increase next time, I think that would add to the balance of parties in parliament.

             I’d also like to see Labour get their act together and build a viable capability towards running the next government from 2014 or 2017 – that’s far more important for the country as a whole. So I have an interest in that too. Do you think I shouldn’t?
             • McFlock …

               9 July 2012 at 1:25 pm

               Labour did about 20 or 30 times better than UF, even with a reduction in support.
                           
               If anything, I think that your “interest” should be monitored as sort of a reverse pit-canary: as soon as you start extensively approving of anything controversial Labour does, they should immediately apologise and reverse course. As long as you keep providing helpful advise on how Labour should change to improve its popularity, they can’t be too far wrong.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 9 July 2012 at 1:36 pm

                 If anything, I think that your “interest” should be monitored as sort of a reverse pit-canary

                 Same as if the NBR, John Armstrong or Fran O’Sullivan start praising Labour and its policies as being “pragmatic”, “realistic”, “sensible” and “moderate”.
                 • McFlock …

                   9 July 2012 at 2:38 pm

                   I do recall an Alliance comrade saying that he really knew Lab4 was off the rails when the ODT started running positive editorials about their economic policies.
                 • gareth …

                   9 July 2012 at 4:31 pm

                   Meanwhile… over at kiwiblog… Pete finally admits that he’s proper right wing….

                   “Of all the commenters here DPF would be as close as just about anyone to my views and aims”
                   • Pete George …

                     9 July 2012 at 4:55 pm

                     Ah, but of Labour politicians I think I’m closest to David Shearer. I’d rate Kevin Hague and Julie Anne Genter, amongst those in the Greens I’ve had anything to do with. And I like Pita Sharples. I’d be happy to work with any of them.

                     Make what you want of that.
                   • felix …

                     9 July 2012 at 5:09 pm

                     I make that you’re delusional.
                   • McFlock …

                     9 July 2012 at 5:10 pm

                     What about current MPs excluding Dunne?
                   • gareth …

                     9 July 2012 at 6:01 pm

                     So bearing that in mind, if you sat in a room with say Farrah, Shearer, Hauge, Genter & lets throw Key in there too, which would be as close as just about anyone to your views and aims?
             • marty mars …

               9 July 2012 at 1:35 pm

               “I have an interest in that too”

               Do you see yourself in Parliment as a labour member pete?
               • Pete George …

                 9 July 2012 at 5:03 pm

                 I think it’s unlikely I’ll be in Parliament with any party.

                 When I decided to get more into politics I first approached Labour. After initial contact I volunteered some outside real world experience and they didn’t get back to me.

                 I doubt I’ll join Labour unless they change their approach substantially, and I doubt I’m the sort of person they’d chose as a candidate, I’ve got too much practical life and business experence.

                 I certainly wouldn’t fit into the current Labour culture of being a negative talking point repeater.
                 • McFlock …

                   9 July 2012 at 5:28 pm

                   I certainly wouldn’t fit into the current Labour culture of being a negative talking point repeater.

                    
                   A typically hypocritical statement.
                 • mickysavage …

                   9 July 2012 at 5:45 pm

                   You are such a crack up Pete.

                   Hate to break it to you but your inability to argue and your rather strange world views would not get you within a million miles of a Labour party nomination. You are right that you are not the sort of person who would be chosen as a candidate.

                   As for “being a negative talking point repeater” you should read this and hundreds of other threads you have strangled the life out of and then reconsider your statement.
                 • North …

                   9 July 2012 at 6:24 pm

                   Pete George; “I’ve got too much practical life and business experience.”

                   What a hoot ! You do have too much pomposity, too much passive aggression, and too much of a view of the wonder of you. That’s about it though Petey.
                   • McFlock …

                     9 July 2012 at 6:42 pm

                     lol – I just saw his line:
                        

                     When I decided to get more into politics I first approached Labour. After initial contact I volunteered some outside real world experience and they didn’t get back to me. 

                      

                     I suspect he was correctly identified as waaaaaaay outside the real world, hence their lack of follow-up. “oh noes, I accidentally lost his phone number”[rips paper into very small pieces]
             • mike e …

               9 July 2012 at 4:45 pm

               Peters Groupie you are obviously trying to grease up the labour party so the follicle freaks can have another MP outside cabinet with the remuneration that goes with it.
               PGroupie.
               You could change the name of your party to .
               P ontificating
               U nbridled
               F uckwits &
               F ools&
               E ndangered
               R idiculed
               Y awns
             • felix …

               9 July 2012 at 10:52 pm

               “UF maintained the same number of seats and gained influence from the last election.”

               Bullshit. He maintained the same number of seats from the election and maintained precisely the same amount of influence from the post-election negotiations, not from the election.

               ps for all this supposed influence you’ve still never listed all the awesome things he’s achieved (things that National weren’t going to do anyway) and you’ve still never listed all the Govt bills that he’s voted against, despite being asked several times.

               Probably close to zero in both cases, but set the record straight anytime you like.
               • McFlock …

                 9 July 2012 at 11:02 pm

                 nononononono felix, Dunne stamped his foot over the typo in the asset sales after other people had pointed it out.
               • Pete George …

                 10 July 2012 at 6:29 am

                 There were two bills in the last week that parliament sat that I’m aware of that Dunne supported and National didn’t:
                 – Phil Twyford’s depleted uranium bill
                 – David Clark’s holiday Mondayisation bill

                 But I don’t follow every vote. Do you? Or are you making things up again based on no facts?

                 From the Q+A interview:

                 …my crystal ball doesn’t tell me where other parties are going to be on these issues. So I don’t factor into the decision, and I can’t, actually, whether my vote will be the determining one or not. What I have to do is decide what is the right course for me as the United Future member of Parliament to follow.

                 And this is what happens in my experience, when I ask him whether he will support a bill or not he openly considers it in association with UF policy. Not with the policy of any other party.
         • mickysavage 5.1.3.1.2

           9 July 2012 at 1:05 pm

           I am still trying to work out Petey if you are a terribly sophisticated CT plant receiving advice from CIA and Kremlin experts in propaganda and misinformation or if you actually believe what you type …

           You are an expert at running away from a debate and then making out as if it is everyone’s elses fault. Such expertise is either evidence of very sophisticated training or evidence that you exist in a different dimension to the rest of us.

           You still did not answer my original proposition, nor Felix’s. Yet you accuse us of peddling misinformation. How does that work?

           And I am curious, which of my lines is Labour not pushing? I would prefer that you answer my first question first though. Just to show that you are actually interested in engaging in a proper debate and not doing politics as usual …
           • Pete George 5.1.3.1.2.1

             9 July 2012 at 1:17 pm

             I didn’t think your first question justified an answer, it was a very dumb question.

             Did the coiffured one promise hand on heart that no matter how stupid or ludicrous the privatisation proposal was he would back it no matter what? If this is what you are saying then it is the dumbest policy ever support by a political party.

             Not to my knowledge – it’s a stupid suggestion.

             And I haven’t said anything like that.
             • felix …

               9 July 2012 at 10:35 pm

               “Not to my knowledge – it’s a stupid suggestion. “

               And yet…
           • Tiger Mountain 5.1.3.1.2.2

             9 July 2012 at 1:24 pm

             Oh for another PFD–Pete Free Day.

             Maybe PG has been inspired by CERN findings and imagines himself a ‘quantum commenter’, squiggling about, able to be in two or more places at once.
     • mike e 5.1.4

       9 July 2012 at 4:28 pm

       Pete’s Groupie Dunne’s groupie.Pontificating Guile .
       Your leaving no room for any one else’s opinion.
       You haven’t learned that less is more when it comes to politics.
6. john72 6

   9 July 2012 at 11:08 am

   Does the youth of New Zealand understand what Austerity is?
   When food is controlled by a Ration Book. Petrol is rationed. Clothing is either rationed or just not available. Many people are dependant on Rain Water, collected from the house roof.
   Our standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 100 years but where does one “draw the line”? We cannot all lead the life of an English Gentleman. Someone has to play the part of a servant.

   The envious will never be happy.
   • Pete George 6.1

     9 July 2012 at 11:21 am

     I agree john72, but it’s not just the ‘youth of New Zealand’ who have no idea what austerity or real hardship is. I think I have a better idea about it but my generation (baby boomers) is the first of the lucky generations so it’s just based on what I’ve learned from previous generations.

     Life is still tough for many people, even some in New Zealand, but relative to the past we’ve never had things so good – and possibly never appreciated what we do have so little.
     • Lanthanide 6.1.1

       9 July 2012 at 11:37 am

       History will show your generation as the “luckiest generation”.
   • Jenny 6.2

     9 July 2012 at 11:33 am

     Someone has to play the part of a servant.

     john72

     I take it guvnor, that you are not volunteering for the role?
     • Colonial Viper 6.2.1

       9 July 2012 at 1:38 pm

       Exactly.
   • McFlock 6.3

     9 July 2012 at 11:39 am

     Actually, no.
     “Austerity” is when there is more than enough food, but most people can’t afford it.
     “Rationing” is when the government ensures that nobody gets more than their fair share, so as few people as possible miss out.
               
     Issues like child welfare and inequality aren’t races, where you’ve done well if you get a podium finish. They’re issues of constant self-improvement, like maintaining an ideal weight or exercising or minimising the sodium in your diet if that’s an issue. Why do we care? 1: they are bad. 2: like obesity or smoking, if they go on too long they fester in society and cause heart failure and collapse.
            
     Maybe it was worse in your day. Not the issue. The issue is that it’s worse in our day: we can do much better, but we just don’t care. Like a diabetic gorging on chocolate eclairs. 
   • Uturn 6.4

     9 July 2012 at 11:42 am

     When food is controlled by a Ration Book. Petrol is rationed. Clothing is either rationed or just not available. Many people are dependant on Rain Water, collected from the house roof.

     Sounds like life as a labourer in rural NZ. Long hours working outside, but work somewhat blends into life in general (because natural systems don’t listen to or attract people with flow charts and arbitrary deadlines); wages aren’t so great, so food is rationed by budget, so is petrol and because of wage levels and relative isolation, so are clothes. Water supply is from tanks filled by rain off the roof. Cost of trucking extra in over a dry summer often isn’t an option. Workplace employment laws and law in general doesn’t extend to them. It’s a melange of applied cultural beliefs and the wishes of the local “gentry”. Forget the expectation of medical assistance, unless you’re already half dead.

     Lots of people live like this and they’re young. It’s all they’ve ever known. So I don’t know what the envy comment is about. Maybe it’s you who is envious of the resources of Yoof who could make you richer at their expense, but choose not to? The greedy are never happy.
     • prism 6.4.1

       9 July 2012 at 12:43 pm

       Uturn It’s good to hear things spelt out like this and probably many farming people don’t know how bad it is for many of the workers, or choose not to know. Certainly townies don’t.

       Have you read about the Tolpuddle Martyrs in South England. They were tried for setting up a farm workers union on a dodgy bit of law that wouldn’t have succeeded but for the fact that the law, the landed gentry and the church were united against them. There was fire in the bellies of poor people then trying to improve their lot and they massed with huge crowds and collected funds to bring them back, all alive, from their convict sentence in Australia.

       I have had a lurking feeling for some time that it is a whole different ‘lifestyle’ for the low income in the rural areas. And I noticed that the roads there seem to be used mainly by young men a lot of whom seem to be loose cannons. Certainly there are a lot of road accidents usually after drugs, alcohol etc. Life there seems a bit brutish.

       I have read about marjuana being grown with vicious defence traps, but not lately. I have read about a farmer who had been robbed and for a second time some years later, took a pot shot and found that the second burglary was by the original perp who had gone to Australia, returned and gone back to stock up. He was wearing some of the farmer’s stolen clothes apparently. That was a while ago. I don’t think things have changed much, probably got worse but we aren’t hearing about it.

       I have read about a man who had a project that he was spending time on, but every time he left his property parts of it were stolen. Theft like this means that you can’t create anything, make anything. It’s killing to improving your conditions and any initiative.
       I have read about growing rustling. In the recent Guy case, Macdonald had been rustling deer, and what else? There is a nice comfy feeling about how helpful farmers are to each other and how they will come forward for neighbours in difficulties. But what do you do about neighbours or nearbys that are stealing from you? There are the good things but possibly just the obvious tip of an iceberg with depths of dishonesty or danger.
       There isn’t much of a police presence for farmers, and I don’t think they have a good service at all, because there is such a weight of work on one or two officers it could be that rural people just don’t make formal complaints to them.

       Is there a rural underclass that is growing quietly like mushrooms and is only noticed briefly when there is some bad outbreak? Such as the recent theft from tourists, who were fortunate they weren’t female (would they have been raped and perhaps then killed as has happened to other decent, trusting females expecting to be travelling in a civilised country). And perhaps women in particular should be warned about past happenings.
       The outback of Australia has some feral males floating around who have committed awful crimes, and I thought we had higher standards but I’m not sure now.
     • Fortran 6.4.2

       9 July 2012 at 1:00 pm

       Uturn

       Sounds like Britain during the second World War.
       I know – I lived with it in London – and we were healthier as a result.
     • Bored 6.4.3

       9 July 2012 at 1:18 pm

       Thanks UTurn for stating it how it is: I noted reading Trotters Bowalley Rd on the Guy trial that there is definitely an excessive rural income divide between farm owners and labourers (or so Trotter claims). He makes the point that the whole us/ them divide makes for ugly societal impacts.

       Myself, I regularly employ people, every time I do its a million c.v’s, from sub 25 years olds, most of whom are in “training” (studying to be something they will never do and being saddled with a debt for the benefit of doing so) OR are working a part time minimum wage go nowhere job.

       Meanwhile the “greedies” from Labour seem to think it would be a good idea to not pay superannuation for a couple of years till people are 67 because (with no evidence to support it) “we cannot afford it. Who are the “we” Mr Shearer?
       • prism 6.4.3.1

         9 July 2012 at 1:44 pm

         Bored
         And about that 65 to 67 years gap before the old age pension. If these older people can’t get a job that supports them fully, or can only do part-time work, or no work at all then the government should be paying them out of another benefit category, the unemployment or minimum income fund. That means that the government must afford it or have people begging even dying on the street.

         And things got that way after Nats Ruth Richardson introduced her new slimmed down benefits and hospitals were turned into CHEs paring service centres. I seem to remember that someone was in hospital, their bed was needed so they were sent home by taxi about midnight and left by the side of the road. I think a woman had her baby by the road, or in a bus, which could always happen but is not the service we want for our vulnerable people. And poor people die before their time under the bean-counting approach to humanity.

         If on unemployment these older people will have to abase themselves to these brutalised people in WINZ offices and possibly be ordered to attend courses to learn skills that if they didn’t know already, it would be too late to teach them. And then there are the draconian controls of the enemployed benefit (a Freudian slip – combining enemy and unemployed which is how attitudes are developing towards the strugglers). They need to be available to look for a job all the time, looking for a job becomes their job, yet they can’t go on holiday without asking permission which may not be granted. Particularly if your children have gone to Australia. You may have scrimped enough to get there but you have removed yourself from the job market. If your children sent you the fare and you went anyway, that money could be counted as increased income and your benefit docked to that amount. And you are registered as leaving the country when you go through the check-in so the Department finds out, and could stop your benefit. This system, allegedly caring for the low income, is equivalent to home detention though less rigid than for criminals and certainly not the treatment of the retired that is envisaged by the better off.

         This is how I understand the system from anecdote and some personal experience. If someone knows differently or has an experience that sheds light on the benefit for older people, it would be interesting to read.
         • Bored 6.4.3.1.1

           9 July 2012 at 2:17 pm

           All sounds so familiar Prism. You get shitted on as you begin your working career, indebted up to the eyeballs with a useless “degree”. You work at Makkers to pay off that sum on minimum wages, then when your body gives out on you there is an expectation that an extra couple of years can be dragged out of you….St Peter dont you call me cos I cant go, I owe my soul to the company store” syndrome.

           The real issue at hand is the failure of the economic system to provide sufficient jobs, and sufficient wage levels. In this country we generate sufficient wealth to do both, the problem we have is that we just seem far too good at distributing this wealth to the wrong people. My business’ market is shrinking because the amount of consumption drops with the number of people unemployed and the lower rates of pay: the corporate sector (including government) are buying business or overcharging my sector. Consequently I don’t employ as many people as I could.

           Which is why I gave Shearer and Labour a serve: to blindly retort failed shibboleths of some Right wing think tank rather than addressing the real issues indicates Labour are still arse about face.
         • Vicky32 6.4.3.1.2

           9 July 2012 at 6:52 pm

           If on unemployment these older people will have to abase themselves to these brutalised people in WINZ offices and possibly be ordered to attend courses to learn skills that if they didn’t know already, it would be too late to teach them

           That’s sort of where I am now, although I have not yet turned 60… inasmuch as I’ve been informed that I have only a 20% chance of getting an office job because of my age (the leader of a course WINZ referred me to, told me that.) 
           I have the skills, I don’t have the yoof or the looks that are apparently required by any woman seeking an office job!
           (Neither do I have leukaemia, which is another, weirder story.)
   • Draco T Bastard 6.5

     9 July 2012 at 1:33 pm

     Many people are dependant on Rain Water, collected from the house roof.

     Um, so?

     We cannot all lead the life of an English Gentleman. Someone has to play the part of a servant.

     No we can’t and no we don’t. Only have to have servants in a dictatorial hierarchy.

     The envious will never be happy.

     As we keep pointing out: It’s not envy but pure, unadulterated, disgust with the greedy smucks whom you seem to worship.
7. prism 7

   9 July 2012 at 11:58 am

   There is an interesting juxtaposition of offerings on Radionz this a.m . At 10.45 there is a serial play on the beneficiary getting into work by starting your own business thing. Very funny.

   And Alex Mackay, who has just published a cookbook is a chef who talks at express train speed. Cookbook for Everybody, Everyday, published by Bloomsbury about $45.
   His career was the result of hard work, and looking for opportunities and taking them. Being able to express yourself well would count too. He had to leave school voluntarily or the other way. So he got started as a dishwasher in restaurants here and ended up going to France on a one way ticket. At one place he worked he was in charge of pastry, left after everyone else and no transport home, a hotel four miles away was the only bed he could get, so had to walk there. Hotel was locked up so he had to climb over the garden wall and up to his second storey bedroom. Good story, whether it’s true. He certainly has Drrive.

   Also at http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
   11:45 Off The Beaten Track with Kennedy Warne
   The latest offering in the NZ Cycle Trails network – the Motu Trails, in the Bay of Plenty, which opened a couple of months ago. There are three interconnecting trails that take a rider between Opotiki on the coast and Matawai in the Raukumara Range.
   Also have a look on the site at this beautiful bridge – Newly opened Pakowhai suspension bridge over the Otara River, Opotiki.
8. Draco T Bastard 8

   9 July 2012 at 2:58 pm

   A great pic of the Martian landscape.
   • McFlock 8.1

     9 July 2012 at 3:19 pm

     Either that or national’s wet dream about conservation land 🙂
        
     Good snap though 
   • bad12 8.2

     9 July 2012 at 3:27 pm

     I am always intrigued by pics of the red planet, specially the one a while back of what looked like a human type figure running among rocks on the Planet Mars, (perhaps one of the underground inhabitants caught out-side),

     Whats amusing is that we seem to know what makes up the Mars ‘atmosphere’ and soil types around the ‘voyager’,

     It would seem a reasonably bright suggestion to attempt to recreate the same enviroment in a dome like structure here on Earth so as to be able to test what trees, plants, crops, might grow on Mars,

     If something indicates under such an experiment that it might grow up there then perhaps they should be bombing the place with seeds, such in 1000 years may just go a little toward making the place habitable…
     • TheContrarian 8.2.1

       9 July 2012 at 3:41 pm

       ‘human type figure’

       Na, was just a rock formation
     • McFlock 8.2.2

       9 July 2012 at 3:50 pm

       There are ethical issues, as well as practical.
            
       Mars atmospheric pressure is much less that the pressure at which human blood boils – i.e.  the pressure at twice the altitude of everest. And it’s pretty cold much of the time, too. So it won’t be Earth’s grain basket.
            
       On the ethical flipside, there might still be enough water etc for bacteria to grow (not to mention the minute possibility of large subterranean life forms), and of course any seed bombardment could result in either of two “worst case scenarios”: the eradication of unique life forms; or outbreaks of untreatable alien diseases or even triffids. Either one is a bad outcome.
           
       Not to mention the “climate change / peak oil will make it all futile!” perspective. Not entirely sure where I go to on that one yet.
          
       Basically we’re probably looking at at least 100 years of exploration and  technology development (e.g. ion boosters or similar funky engines for inner-system navigability) to determine A) what’s there; B) what was once there; and C) if B is nothing lifelike or unpreservable, is there any point to putting anything there, anyway?
       • TheContrarian 8.2.2.1

         9 July 2012 at 3:59 pm

         Anyone seen Mission to Mars? Fucking hilarious. One of the main characters spends a year living on Mars in a tent, flapping in the breeze, which he survives because he had plants.
         • McFlock 8.2.2.1.1

           9 July 2012 at 4:13 pm

           Did they do the cunning hollywood get-around-the-laws-of-physics-with-one-line-of-dialogue ruse? A quick “lucky the pressure gauges on every single probe we sent here were wrongly calibrated, eh”?
           • TheContrarian 8.2.2.1.1.1

             9 July 2012 at 4:17 pm

             Yes, he goes “it works”. 

             Nothing further in explanation was required. 
             • McFlock …

               9 July 2012 at 4:26 pm

               lol
           • Dv 8.2.2.1.1.2

             9 July 2012 at 5:27 pm

             But i do recall a real mission to mars several years ago that failed because the had enteres the value for g in the wrong unit system.
             • McFlock …

               9 July 2012 at 6:38 pm

               Mars Climate Orbiter. 
                       
               An Ariane 5 blew up because of a legacy (and unneeded) subsystem in some bodged-in Ariane 4 code.
                      
               I live in fear of such errors 🙂 
         • felix 8.2.2.1.2

           9 July 2012 at 4:35 pm

           One of the main characters spends a year living on Mars in a tent

           More or less in real time from what I can remember of that soporific bit of cinema.
           • TheContrarian 8.2.2.1.2.1

             9 July 2012 at 5:11 pm

             I only went because it had Brian De Palma’s name attached as director.

             The worst thing about the whole movie was when a couple of friends and I decided “fuck it, lets go” so we stood up and the credits started rolling. Man, I felt gypped. 
             • felix …

               9 July 2012 at 6:12 pm

               lols
   • Vicky32 8.3

     9 July 2012 at 6:56 pm

     A great pic of the Martian landscape.

     Gorgeous! Wow, thanks…
9. Penny Bright 9

   9 July 2012 at 4:12 pm

   BEWARE!

   MINORITY NATIONAL GOVERNMENT WANTS TO RAILROAD THROUGH CHANGES TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT TO FURTHER SUIT CORPORATE INTERESTS!!

   Here’s your chance to have your say!

   PUBLIC MEETING: Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross’ public meeting is at 7pm on July 10 at Pakuranga Country Club, 199 Botany Road.

   THINK THE AUCKLAND SUPERCITY IS A SUPER RIPOFF?

   AGREE THAT THE ‘BOOKS SHOULD BE OPEN’ AND CITIZENS SHOULD GET THE ‘DEVILISH DETAIL’ ABOUT HOW MUCH PUBLIC MONIES ARE BEING SPENT ON ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ (on consultants and private contractors – whose contracts have not been subject to any ‘cost-benefit’ analysis??

   “RATEPAYERS deserve assurances that councils are spending their money wisely on services that matter to them, says Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross.”
   http://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-explains-law-change.html

   Submissions on The Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill close on July 26. Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross’ public meeting is at 7pm on July 10 at Pakuranga Country Club, 199 Botany Road.
10. Penny Bright 10

    9 July 2012 at 4:16 pm

    WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE LOCAL GOVT ACT?

    Here you go….

    http://www.dia.govt.nz/pubforms.nsf/URL/RISBetterLocalGovernment-signed.pdf/$file/RISBetterLocalGovernment-signed.pdf

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
11. Sam Hall 11

    9 July 2012 at 5:21 pm

    In local paper explanation given by MSD insider via txt that half desks at winz office empty on a given workday due to morale and stress-related issues.hmmm.

    Hello U-turn, prism, dtb olwyn drt bored et al. I sorta missed your thoughts but at the time weighed up the benefits of having a wee caesure from the aggression on the blog between some posters. Dogs, fleas and all that.

    Never a dull moment watching the impending societal train-wreck though.

    Saw this Hong Kong Chinese gentleman on BBC with thousands of accumulated or repatriated Chinese art at his property. Leaning here and there were pieces “valued” at 500m stirling etc.

    And that was just one of the new chinese wealthy. Im glad I ceased to measure anything about myself by the rulers I have bought or traded for in the “market”.

    The chinese and other east asian ubercapitalists are gonna eat up and spit out our local grass-reared capitalists all over their paddy fields and coal mine tailings.

    Ol western whitey and his colonised adherents are wising up to the neccessity of “political” “relationships” to do “business” with the mass of mainland china.

    The ol proddy scot wont wanna be puttin his hand too deep into the other mans pocket..
    • prism 11.1

      10 July 2012 at 12:04 pm

      Sam Hall Sounds possible even probable. But Dr Feelgood says don’t think of more than one negative future scenario a day to ensure your mojo keeps alive!
12. captain hook 12

    9 July 2012 at 5:42 pm

    penny bright.
    did you listen to MIke Williams and Stephen Franks this morning on 9-noon.
    Franks admitted that wodney had drawn up the akl super city plan on the back of an envelope and what has happened now is that elected councillors are left out of the loop.
    the departments now consider they dont have to give info to councillors and the only one with any say is the mayor.
    Our whole democracy is descending into the post modern equivcalent of the inferno and alice and wonderland combined.
    those fuckers have gone crazy with power and they have diverted all avenues of disclosure so that they are sealed off from the gaze of their employers.Thats you and me and all other ratepayers.
    Whats needed now is transparency.
    But hey it used to be but now it has been taken away.
    what the fuck is going on in Godzone.
13. bad12 13

    9 July 2012 at 5:55 pm

    The economic recovery is upon us, well nah if you want to consider Trademe as an economic indicator things have gone from really bad to really f**king bad,

    Paula Benifit is wont to chastise us all with Trademe job figures, (that’s probably coz Paula has trouble with the more complicated household labour survey),

    Does appear tho that employment ads on Trademe are UP like mega-big-time, but only IF you either live or are planning on shifting to Christchurch,

    Job ads on the same web-site show Auckland is down 4% and Wellington down a massive 7%, who would have thunk that the Slippery led National Government could have wrought such an economic miracle in such a short time,

    The score so far, 2 F’s, the government gets a failed and the economy is even more f**ked…
    • McFlock 13.1

      9 July 2012 at 6:09 pm

      How long has Trademe been doing job ads? I know it’s been a while, but I’m wondering if it’s still in the growth phase as a job exchange, as opposed to say W&I or newspaper classifieds (although similarly the latter in particular might be going down with the ship)
      • bad12 13.1.1

        9 July 2012 at 6:24 pm

        I couldn’t say how long Trademe has been running job ads for, what i do know is that a large % of the advertised jobs on there are filled within a week but advertised for a month,

        So using Trademe as economic data as Paula Benifit is wont to do is just another form of National Government mis-information, (there’s 8000 jobs advertised on Trademe you know), further demonizing the unemployed in the eyes of those without the intelligence to understand how such a site works,

        When liars like Paula use such figures of 8000 jobs listed on Trademe , at any given time only 3000 of those jobs are vacant with the lower skilled vacancies the first to be filled and the brain surgeon types jobs staying vacant the longest,

        As a raw data source of jobs advertised over a period tho, Trademe is possibly an easy mode of charting economic progress, or in the case of the latest figures, economic regression…
    • QoT 13.2

      9 July 2012 at 7:48 pm

      I had a go at Patrick Gower when he pulled that crap. It was deeply disappointing (especially since he had the sheer gall to *add together* the number of “vacancies” on TM and Seek like they were mutually exclusive listings), but also kinda screamed “guess which journo hasn’t had to seriously look for work in a while?”
14. ropata 14

    9 July 2012 at 6:48 pm

    The market says: Everything and everybody has a price, and is for sale. Faith says: The most valuable things in our lives — good health, safe food, strong families, a clean environment, a just economy, meaningful work, access to opportunity — are beyond price, and should by right be available to us all. Our faith communities (especially, but not always exclusively, the progressive ones) have always held this light up within our culture, and it’s never been needed more than it’s needed right now.

    [In America,] where over 90% of everybody has some kind of God-belief — and the overwhelming majority of them ground their political decisions in that belief — abandoning the entire landscape of faith to the right wing amounts to political malpractice. For most Americans, our religious worldviews are the epistemological soil in which every other decision we make is rooted — the basic model of reality that we use to navigate the world. When we stopped engaging people’s basic model of moral order, we effectively ceded the entire moral landscape of the nation to our enemies. It was, in retrospect, perhaps the most self-destructive error we’ve made over the past 40 years (and that’s saying something).

    To our credit, a lot of our best organizers and activists are starting to realize the magnitude of this mistake. We’re paying a lot more attention these days to learning to clearly articulate progressive values, to express ourselves in explicitly moral language, and to put forward more strongly progressive frames, narratives, and future visions to counter the bankrupt conservative worldview that’s brought us to this sorry place in history.

    Alternet: Six Reasons We Can’t Change The Future Without Progressive Religion
    • Vicky32 14.1

      9 July 2012 at 7:00 pm

      The market says: Everything and everybody has a price, and is for sale. Faith says: The most valuable things in our lives — good health, safe food, strong families, a clean environment, a just economy, meaningful work, access to opportunity — are beyond price, and should by right be available to us all

      Awesome Ropata! Thanks so much..
15. Dave Kennedy 15

    9 July 2012 at 6:57 pm

    The Government spends all its energy trying to “fix” education when it isn’t broken and ignores a real crisis! http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/housing-crisis-demands-immediate-action.html
16. rosy 16

    9 July 2012 at 10:49 pm

    So, weather/climate people… what’s with the jet stream moving south being the blame for the UK’s exceedingly wet summer? I get that this is true, but is it climate or weather and is it a ‘normal’ shift? What makes a jet stream shift? If it’s moved south I guess this is also to blame for an exceedingly warm early summer in central Europe?

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