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Open Mike 09/08/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 9th, 2017 - 80 comments
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80 comments on “Open Mike 09/08/2017 ”

  1. eco maori 1

    The goverments are assumed to make laws for the well being of all people yea right back in the 80 my uncle was a proud maori man he went to church he wore a suit when in public his shoes were that shiny that I could see my face in the reflection he suffered from derperssion the system locked him in a mental hosptial lake allies my nan died while he was in hosptial they would not let him attend her tangi with in 2 weeks we were attending his tangi he was in the states care WTF he was a good father now out of 6 of his kids 2 are working 3 are in gangs and one under the bridge in the last 2 years 3 of my uncles mokos have commited suerside when my uncle was in his youth our family was quite proud and respected ect in 40 years this system has change my family into one that no one wants to assocate with and totally disfuncnall the goverment haves been conned and listend to busniess that told them that unemployment was good for the country to keep inflation down so they made laws to break unions and create unemployed people now it is not rocket science to work out that our youth will be less likely to get in the shit if they are working and liveing a happy healthy life!!!!!!!!!

    • Loop 1.1

      You are so right eco maori. We can all thank prebble and douglas for where we are today for their hijacking of the labour party in the 80’s. Selling taxpayer owned assets and with them 10’s of thousands of jobs, the majority being Maori. They had an american consultant come over to “prove” New Zealand could sustain a 10% unemployment rate and systemically went on to make this so. Shame on them and successive governments for the damage they have done for not only the newly disenfranchised unemployed but New Zealanders as a whole. We as a nation are suffering because of government monetary policy

  2. Ad 2

    I am sure some here will think winning over the business media to be a bad thing, but you cannot run New Zealand without them, as Helen Clark discovered in 1999-2000. The NZHerald’s Fran O’Sullivan is going full fan-girrrl on Jacinda Ardern, because here she is anticipating the water charging policy this afternoon:

    “If you think about the 2017 election as a chess game there’s really no reason why a strong player could not come from a lesser position and still win.

    Jacinda Ardern has played a strong tactical game since her coronation as Labour’s leader eight days ago.

    When you boil it down, Ardern’s policy announcements (to date) have really all been about taking territory from Labour’s minor party competitors – not just its prime opponent, National.”

    She then mentions the transport announcements from Sunday, and the water announcements today.


    Fran O’Sullivan may or may not cut much ice with the hard left, but in Auckland she is the primary opinion shaper among business leadership.

    For the first time since 1984, the New Zealand Herald in all its commentators has come out in favour of Jacinda Ardern. You can’t buy that kind of marketing, 6 weeks out.

    • Incognito 2.1

      For me it’s starting to become increasingly clear which parties and politicians are truly progressive and which ones are pro-establishment and supporting status quo – it was never that hard to begin with but one needs to keep an open mind and cut through many layers of noise (bad metaphor).

      I know that election campaigns are largely a ‘game of charades’ but recent events are making me less hopeful that we will see real & meaningful change here in NZ in the foreseeable future.

      C’est la vie Que sera, sera. [without Google Translator!]

      • Ad 2.1.1

        You don’t vote in the anti-establishment.

        You vote in the establishment.

        That’s the definition of parliament.

      • garibaldi 2.1.2

        You’re speaking the truth there Incognito. The left is being side stepped and the status quo is being reaffirmed in the guise of Ardern & Davis.

        • Ad

          The current status quo is the National and Act coalition.

          What is being sidestepped is another term of National and Act.

          Ardern and Davis are making it look easy, because right now they are the best politicians of the campaign.

          You keep grasping for something ever more left; Roger Whittaker has a song for you:

          • RedLogix

            Perfect Ad. At so many levels right now today.

            And I’d forgotten what a voice he has. 🙂

    • I am sure some here will think winning over the business media to be a bad thing, but you cannot run New Zealand without them, as Helen Clark discovered in 1999-2000.

      Have you considered that needing to do so is a Bad Thing™?

  3. eco maori 3

    I have tried 3 times to use the offical information act ie send a email to the justice department got spammed so i sent a hard copy by corrier took photos so i have a electronic copy to get all the data you see people you dont need a lawyer to use the system but you need one to inform you on how it works I will sue the police for breaches of my rights when the justice department gives me my data which it is legaly required to ie all the bullshit warrents and statements that they have bribe people and used the power of the justies system to extort out of these people

  4. Carolyn_nth 4

    An NZ Herald article reports on a legal decision that includes evidence of the Dirty Politics crowd, via emails of/related to Carrick Graham and the WO blog.

    Evidence included a trove of emails and text messages between Denham and PR merchant Carrick Graham, who helped organise damaging, paid posts about Clague and Kristin School on the Whale Oil attack blog.

    In an email exchange in November 2012, Graham wrote that the campaign had already generated media coverage, forcing the school board to issue two letters to parents.

    “It would be safe to say that Clague has had the blow-torch applied to him in terms of a much wider audience being aware of his actions. In terms of reputational hits he is damaged goods.”

    In another exchange after a Whale Oil post alleging Kristin board members had known about the allegations and done nothing, Denham wrote that “Cameron’s blog is starting to generate interest in the Kristin community. It’ll spread like wildfire now!”

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    Now that’s clever!
    Front page of The Southland Times has Jacinda Ardern’s smiling face, front and centre, alongside of a smaller one of Bill English looking rather perplexed, with the headline,
    Over to you, Bill
    Ardern leaves Barclay text saga alone

    Seems Labour are not going to attack English, in the House, over his texting issues. The accompanying article goes into the texting issue in great depth.
    Very gracious of Jacinda. Very front page of her. Very good strategy. Remember, this is Southland.

  6. Tuppence Shrewsbury 6

    Are there calls from non-Gower related media outlets? Besides twitter?

    Twitter is like a stuff online poll on steroids.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: I can’t make any sense of this comment. Who gives a fuck what other media ‘think’? Did the post have anything about that? This was a post ABOUT the Twitter reaction to a journos making uo a story line and the appropriate complaint avenue.

    Your comment looks to me like pure troll diversion. Take a week off as an educational experience about why you don’t do that idiotic shut here. ]

  7. Nick 7

    Yep, lets oust natz and those sucker fish parties

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  8. KJT 8

    The establishment, and media, have decided Labour is a safe pair of hands to carry on the Neo-Liberal project.

    • grumpystilskin 8.1

      “What if I told you the left wing and the right wing belong to the same bird?”
      Not sure who said it but..

    • That’s how I’m reading their attacks on the Greens while propping up Labour and their old idealogical policies.

    • McFlock 8.3

      we-ell, “safe” might not be the word for it.

      The nactoids are capitalists’ preferred government.

      A labgrn government is a bad result for them, BUT
      a 35%:14% labgrn government is not necessarily pro-capitalist, but less bad for them than a 25:25% labgrn government.

      A capitalist nightmare would be 35:15% greenlab govt, but their ideal plan B would be lab+(being able to choose between nz1/grn).

      So that’s where the horse-race lies before a quick surge of nact positivity in the last couple of weeks, is my guess.

  9. inspider 9

    So it was all a lie. Metiria admits in latest RNZ interview that she didn’t rip off to feed her kid and that she had significant family support.

    [lprent: Which program, roughly what time, and and where is the link (and if it isn’t up yet – then say so).

    This does appear to be the current astroturf from the usual National party outlets. So far I haven’t seen anything in it sourced.

    Since you are rather notoriously bad at actually being accurate (basically you lie a lot). So I have to insist on these kinds of details from you for anything fact based in the future.

    Otherwise I have long ban key poised over your ability to comment here. It has the words “stupid astroturfer” on it. This is your warning. ]

    [I listened to the interview earlier (Checkpoint) and this comment is both a lie and an astroturf. Turei has been and still is consistent about her reasons for claiming extra benefit. She also explained the family support issue, how it’s not straight forward and how WINZ penalises beneficiaries when they get outside help. 1 year ban – weka]

  10. Nick 10

    Yeah, his mouth is looking puckered this morning.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  11. adam 11

    Interesting video about 5 minutes. A short introduction to forensic architecture, which can really open up your thinking about situations, especially in conflict zones. http://www.forensic-architecture.org/

    • ianmac 11.1

      “Truth is a battlefield.” So true adam and of course our spin doctors fight hard to make sure their version is accepted as their Truth.

  12. Tamati Tautuhi 12

    Just like Pepsi and Coke one is in a blue bottle and one is in a red bottle.

  13. Ad 13

    Glenn Campbell has gone!

    So here’s the Wichita Lineman:

  14. greywarshark 15

    Just to add to the important facts about Metiria, who has been poor and worked to do better after seeing how her parents struggled.

    From Wikipedia
    Metiria Turei grew up in a working-class Māori family in Palmerston North in the North Island.[2] She failed her high school examinations and in 1987 she worked her first job as a kitchen-hand at the Hard Rock Café in Palmerston North working the late shift.[5]

    Between 1989–1991, Turei was the Tumuaki o Te Iwi Maori Rawakore o Aotearoa and involved with Te Roopu Rawakore o Aotearoa. (Working with unemployed and those in poverty.)

    Turei was a founding member of the Random Trollops performance art troupe.[6] She studied law at the University of Auckland and later worked as a commercial lawyer at Simpson Grierson.[2]
    Political career
    She was a candidate for the McGillicuddy Serious Party in the 1993 election and for the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party in the 1996 election.

    So Metiria is no slouch, worked hard (and importantly not just for herself but to also help others and try for a better system that would enable good people to get a life and some security). Metiria succeeded despite the efforts of the deadening hand of neoliberal people-breaking governments. So people who care about others and want us all to have a chance for a life, stop beating up on her!

    If you want a break from the tides of argument, here is a survey you can take which might help you to get a clear view of what is important to consider before voting and which arrow you follow.

    • ianmac 15.1

      Political compass test completed Greywarshark. That was interesting. It seems that most political parties are clustered a long way from where I am.

      • greywarshark 15.1.1

        Up Mt Aoraki without a paddle ianmac? We need new ideas in our politics. If only you could get through to the pollies and we ‘rank and file’ with some.

        Do you feel like a laugh – this reminds me of Homer who couldn’t think outside his rut so could never get enlightenment.

    • Rosemary McDonald 15.2

      Done…and what an interesting exercise!

      I appear to be slightly to the left of Gandhi.

  15. Oh dear, even the captains of capitalism are finding that competition costs too much now:

    FRANKFURT/DETROIT (Reuters) – BMW and Daimler, the world’s top luxury carmakers, have announced alliances with suppliers, talking up the virtues of having a bigger pool of engineers to develop a self-driving car.

    In July last year, BMW became the first major carmaker to abandon its solo development of self-driving cars in favor of teaming up with chipmaker Intel and camera and software manufacturer Mobileye to build a platform for autonomous cars technology by 2021.

    The decision followed a trip by senior executives to visit startups and suppliers to gauge BMW’s competitive position.

    “Sitting at other companies, one rattles off the technological challenges and safety aspects, and you come to realize that many of us are swimming in the same sludge,” Klaus Buettner, BMW’s vice president autonomous driving projects, told Reuters.

    “Everybody is investing billions. Our view was that it makes sense to club together to develop some core systems as a platform.”

    Competition: It’s bad for the economy and society.

    • Adrian 16.1

      If you knew anything about BMW and Mercedes you would know that they are each their own competition. Which is why their cars are the among safest and the best engineered . Only a few years ago their ” competition ” based only 50 kms away were still making cars from wood chip and running on lawnmower fuel.

      • If you knew anything about BMW and Mercedes you would know that they are each their own competition.

        And that is proof that we need competition how?

        Only a few years ago their ” competition ” based only 50 kms away were still making cars from wood chip and running on lawnmower fuel.

        There’s something wrong with wood chip?


        It’s the cellulose fibres that are important as they’re used for strength. Has the advantage of being compostable and thus sustainable.

        Gasoline needs to be phased out no matter what.

        • Adrian

          There was nothing sustainable in the vast majority of Trabants that caught fire and burned out, but that may have been the open kerosene heater inside the car.

          The competition ” was a euphemism for ongoing self improvement and R&D at both companies.

          If you think that the apex of communist East German engineering only a few years ago was a shitty cooking stove in a car for heating then you really need to reasess your political favourtism.

          • Draco T Bastard

            The competition ” was a euphemism for ongoing self improvement and R&D at both companies.

            I know what you meant but our entire system is based upon competing companies but when a single research facility is already producing the best then why do we need competing companies? Are we getting value from having that competition?

            The firms that are consolidating their research don’t think so.

          • greywarshark

            You seem to swing widely Adrian.

            You say in one comment rather sneeringly that the competition 50 km away (East German) was apparently low on the car engineering development ladder.

            Then you admire the two German companies advancement.

            Then you sneer at DTB because he sees benefit in East German engineering
            and now state they were advanced and comment unfavourably on DTBs
            ‘political favouritism.’ He was looking objectively with a thought for future changes in materials and systems. Why can’t you bring your knowledge and mix with his for a fuller expression of future possibilities?

    • One Two 16.2

      Cornering a market, is not a new strategy..it has always been…only the perception of ‘choice’ via ‘competition’ actually exists

      Capitalists agree with you, Draco

      Capitalists do NOT like competition..except if it’s driving wages down

  16. ianmac 17

    This could be interesting today since Winston seems to have some content about those text messages.

    Q7: “Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements on the Todd Barclay matter; if so, how does he credibly do that?”

  17. mac1 18

    Business contemplates a change in Government come September 23.

    Marlborough Express today. “Time is running out for the government……….. If voters turn away from National come election day… then the decision to relocate up to six NZ King Salmon farms could fall with another government. ” The page 3 article ends “Rosewarne (King Salmon CEO) said he felt the company had broad bipartisan support but a change of government would lead to more delays in the relocation process”.

    Now, I was a little mischievous about the opening which I did to emphasise the way that selective editing can change meaning. However, the thrust of the article is to point out the situation in the Sounds if government changes.

    It is indicative of the volatile and shifting political mood. Change is very possible, and journalists and CEOs alike are alive to this possibility.

    The CEO of King Salmon, Grant Rosewarne, is annoyed that government has not made up its mind and introduced legislation. Labour spokesperson Damien O’Connor criticised the government for not using usual RMA channels but instead going to ministerial intervention.

    A reason as to why the delay might lie with the local MP unhappy to have a decision made under ‘nanny-state’ intervention when many constituents are unhappy with the process. Many unhappy with the process are local and rural voters. This government is averse to controversial decisions close to elections, but favours under the carpet treatment until after election time.

    “Opponents have been highly critical of the process, with at least two groups saying they would not rule out a judicial review if the minister pushed ahead with the relocation plan,” says the Express.

  18. Bearded Git 21

    I reckon Peters has copies of the 450 texts sent by Boring Bill re the Barclay issue…watch the video of question 7 in parliament today….Peters says near the end “they are going to miss you” to English.

    Setting him up nicely.

    • ianmac 21.1

      Yes heard that. If Bill heard it too will he be wondering but it would be next week before further appears, if any. Neither Bill nor Winston will be in the House Thursday.

  19. adam 22

    Anyone else notice trump went all macho and threatened North Korea. Then the North Koreans threatened back at Guam.

  20. ScottGN 23

    Turei resigning on Checkpoint right now.

  21. ianmac 24

    Stop Press
    Materia has resigned as co Leader. And will be off the LIST.

  22. Adrian 25

    listen to John Campbell right now. Metiera has resigned from leadership and the list.
    It is a sad loss from someone so commited.

  23. ianmac 26

    Wonder if she has wind of the poll results?

  24. patricia bremner 28

    This heartbreaking stuff. The pressure has been too great.

    Metiria you are a special person, and the stories of the poor are starting to be published, as you hoped.

    The dialogue has begun.

    We will keep your intended topic to the forefront.

    All Leaders of any courage who questioned the accepted norms have been punished.

    The result is to cement the name and issue in the public perception.

    Poverty and its dreadful outcomes will be even more evident now. Shame NZ.

    We all need to consider the power of the non-elected elite and its purpose.

    Their partisan baying is dangerous to democracy.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 28.1

      Says it all PB, thank you. This is a sad moment for the Greens, parliament and NZ.

      Metiria, thank you for your authentic concern and support for the ‘underclass’. The sustained ‘know your place’ attacks on you will make other politicians think twice before daring to highlight the poverty that diminishes and even kills many NZers.

      Ashamed and very sad about how you have been treated for effectively promoting a national conversation about poverty. I hope that the Greens continue that conversation.

  25. greywarshark 29

    Trump is threatening North Korea to behave or they will meet fire, fury and something else. It sounds as if Trump is going to attend to them personally. I wish he would. Maybe he would be good for something. And the USA and South Korean
    governments apparently are playing chicken with North Korea by sending planes into their air space. That is just stupid. That is irrational. That is irresponsible.
    Why can they not be responsible and statesmanlike. And not push the situation to the edge for their own dramatic effect. They are not working for peace for sure.

    • Exkiwiforces 29.1

      I wonder if he knows that all Asian nations don’t like too lose face and if he does it’s a stupid way to play chicken with old fat boy, who might just push that big red button for shits and giggles.

      • greywarshark 29.1.1

        Yes two egos posturing. Lock them in a concrete bunker and let them fight it out.

        • Exkiwiforces

          It wil be a lot safer for all of us, but it would provide some pretty good entertainment on the telly instead of watching the poor Greens kicking own goals ATM.

  26. greywarshark 30

    Preferred PM -Jacinda 26%
    Blinglish 27%
    e & oe But if not correct still close and what an incredible rise for Labour.

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