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Open mike 09/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 9th, 2011 - 93 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

93 comments on “Open mike 09/12/2011 ”

  1. Frida 1

    Congratulations Carmel (hopefully). And good riddance to the Bene Basher


  2. Bored 2

    Jeez, its Friday, thank God for that. The wheels of commerce are harder to pump, everyone is demanding more and delivering less. Stress everywhere, the standard response more speed, more power, but we are running on empty. Sign of the times?

    Any of you guys feeling the heat? The Nats ripping your public service job away, or the contracts with the public sector you rely upon? Or some idiot National minister demanding more of you teaching staff or similar for less money? Or some sales manager demanding you close the deals faster because corporate profits are down?

    Christmas coming, time to think about your response to pump priming, what it all means and whether it is worth it.

    • freedom 2.1

      Something a friend sent me on FB, seemed relevant to the heart of your comment,

      Christmas 2011 — Birth of a New Tradition

      As the holidays approach, the giant Asian factories are kicking into high gear to provide Kiwis with monstrous piles of cheaply produced goods –merchandise that has been produced at the expense of Kiwi labour.

      This year will be different. This year Kiwis will give the gift of genuine concern for other Kiwis. There is no longer an excuse that, at gift giving time, nothing can be found that is produced by Kiwi hands. Yes there is!

      It’s time to think outside the box, people. Who says a gift needs to fit in a shirt box, wrapped in Chinese produced wrapping paper?

      Everyone — yes EVERYONE gets their hair cut. How about gift certificates from your local hair salon?

      Gym membership? It’s appropriate for all ages who are thinking about some health improvement.

      Who wouldn’t appreciate getting their car detailed? Small owned detail shops & car washes would love to sell you a gift certificate or a book of gift certificates. For the Gardeners on your list – how about some lovely healthy pot plants or plants for the garden or even a gift certificate from the local lawnmowing man.

      Are you one of those extravagant givers who think nothing of plunking down the Panasonic of a Chinese made flat-screen? Perhaps that grateful gift receiver would like his driveway sealed, or lawn mowed for the summer, or games at the local golf course.

      There are a bazillion owner-run restaurants — all offering gift certificates. If your intended isn’t the fancy eatery sort, what about a half dozen breakfasts at the local cafe. Remember, folks this isn’t about big National chains — this is about supporting your home town with their financial lives on the line to keep their doors open.

      How many people couldn’t use an oil change for their car, truck or motorcycle, done at a shop run by the Kiwi working guy?

      What about a gift certificate from a local home handyman for some chores to be done around the home?

      Thinking about a heartfelt gift for mum? Mum would LOVE the services of a local cleaning lady for a day.

      Someone’s computer could use a tune-up, & I KNOW I can find some young guy who is struggling to get his repair business up & running.

      OK, you were looking for something more personal. Local crafts people spin their own wool & knit them into scarves. They make jewelry, & pottery & beautiful wooden boxes.

      Plan your holiday outings at local, owner operated restaurants and leave your server a nice tip. How about going out to see a play or ballet at your hometown theatre.

      Musicians need love too, so find a venue showcasing local bands.

      Honestly, people, do you REALLY need to buy another 10,000 Chinese lights for the house? When you buy a $5.00 string of light, about 50 cents stays in the community. If you have those kinds of to bucks burn, leave the postman, or babysitter a nice BIG tip.

      You see, Christmas is no longer about draining Kiwi pockets so that China can build another glittering city. Christmas is now about caring about New Zealand, encouraging our small businesses to keep plugging away to follow their dreams. When we care about other Kiwis, we care about our communities, & the benefits come back to us in ways we couldn’t imagine.

      THIS is the new New Zealand Christmas tradition.

      • Carol 2.1.1

        But you also need to be careful about giving gift vouchers for a company that might go bust. I lost out with one for a DVD/CD for one of those companies that went bust before I got around to redeeming the voucher.

        To the youngsters in my Whanau, I just give a bit of money now, and let them choose how to spend it. I give nothing to the adults, but will probably make another Christmas donation or two to causes like the Auckland City Mission.

      • Bored 2.1.2

        Bloody hell, not only is it tough, we get short changed chasing our tails…..cant wait for beer oclock.

  3. logie97 3

    Wouldn’t it be ironic that the woman who was the most critical of the Petulant Bean, were to be the difference between Bennett winning or losing her electorate seat of Waitakere. Bradford and her ego … don’t you love it?

    • tc 3.1

      Yup a bitter irony, she’s shown it’s all about her and not the cause pursuing votes in an electorate that labour had every chance of winning back from the basher and she was never going to win.

      The left just can’t seem to practice what it preaches….collaboration.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        The Right Wing do collaboration and socialism better than the Left does these days.

    • felix 3.2

      I thought Sue was only after the party vote. She said she wanted to help Carmel win, didn’t she?

      Whether you assume that’s true or not, who’s to say that if Sue hadn’t campaigned Carmel would’ve got more or fewer votes? What if Sue won more votes for Carmel than for herself? There’s just no way of knowing.

  4. vto 4

    How does this sort of thing happen? It simply would not be allowed to continue in many countries. Yet here in NZ….


    What is it with our islands? Pike River and nobody will take responsibility, South Canterbury Finance and the powers that be run and hide in the cupboard like cowards.

    I truly despair. And further, we are smug in our isolated contentedness that none of that violence and anarchy that prevails overseas passes on our shores. But I tells ya – the attitudes displayed by all of the above (and then throw in arson on Karikari Peninsula last week, Hone Harawira’s statement re guns and their use a few years back, and the Urerewas) tell me that if anarchic behaviour even remotely starts to break out it will be at least as ugly as any mankind has ever unleashed.

    Our isolation changes from our protection to our downfall.

    ugly ugly ugly ugly

    • kriswgtn 4.1

      totally agree Vto.This is disgusting

      • aerobubble 4.1.1

        I’m surprised that she has not taken out ann harrassment order, all she needs is two incidents, like him staring at her home and any reasonable person (made aware of his past offending) would immediatelty agree it was harassment. So I wondering, is this anothe rof the far rightwing media need for a emotional outrage stroy to cover the biggest fraud in NZ history? Moving in next door knowing she lives there should count as one ‘incidient’.

        I’m of course am outraged. seriously though can’t you see the Charter Schools, the limit on government spending, all just as manufactured stories – this is a political blog after all.

  5. dv 5

    See that house prices could be on the way up again.

    So the NATS have the opportunity to sort that out all by themselves.

    (They were very critical of the inaction of LAB)

    • aerobubble 5.1

      Housing prices become a issue, don’t know why, the housing stock is poor so of course homes are in demand. Add in ChCh demand. add in natural growth of pop. and housing will always increase.

      We dont need housing affordability in NZ, when those who can afford them do enter the market its because they’ve earn the money working overseas. How are Kiwis to make a living if they can’t gouge returning expats of their hard earned hard currency?

      • Lanthanide 5.1.1

        “add in natural growth of pop. and housing will always increase.”

        When you factor in the baby boomers having bought up rental properties over the past 15-20 yesterday to build up their retirement nest eggs, these houses are going to start coming onto the market within the next 5-15 years as they cash out to fund their retirement. This will cause a glut in supply and drop in housing prices.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      The Nats were only critical of Labour after the collapse of the global financial economy when it became obvious that our economy and that of the rest of the world had been powered by bubbles for the previous decade. Before then, they didn’t say a thing except to whinge about the high interest rates which is actually the result of the Reserve Bank Act, independent of the government and which they don’t want to change.

    • Bored 5.3

      Be very very very wary of house prices going up: they just have not fallen yet according to my calculations. Read http://www.automaticearth.blogspot.com if you want a very contrarian viewpoint. My take is that they will fall relative to the value of money very fast very soon.

  6. Jackal 6

    Today, the NZ Herald reported:

    Cabinet minister Paula Bennett is on the verge of losing her Waitakere electorate seat.

    Sources report that Labour’s Carmel Sepuloni is ahead by fewer than 10 votes after the counting of special votes.

    I really do hope this is true. Carmel Sepuloni is a great MP and what many consider one of Labours new faces. She stands for equality and a fairer system and deserves to win.

    • Campbell Larsen 6.1


    • Carol 6.2

      Go Carmel!

      Do you think National would ask for a recount?

      • Jackal 6.2.1

        A recount is probably automatic when things are so close. I wouldn’t think that a recount would be different… if it is there needs to be some questions asked. You know the old saying though… don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

        • Chris

          I don’t think it is automatic, but when it is this close whoever lost would ask for a recount.

          Out of interest who would Labour lose if Carmel got in?

          • Carol

            From the NZH link above :

            If Ms Sepuloni and Mr Burns win their electorate seats, list MPs Raymond Huo and Rajen Prasad will not get back into Parliament. If only one of the two wins Mr Huo will be out.

            Can someone explain to me why a Labour electorate gain would result in a list loss? Would Carmel’s gain reflect the overall total of seats for National/Labour?

            • Puddleglum

              Can someone explain to me why a Labour electorate gain would result in a list loss?

              The party vote percentage determines the overall number of seats for a party (with the exception of overhang situations, taking account of ‘wasted’ votes and a few other technical issues). But, everyone who wins an electorate automatically gets into parliament. That means that the electorate seats won by a party take preference over use of the list.

              Hence, gaining an electorate after the specials means that someone from the list is bumped out to maintain the overall percentage entitlement of parliamentary seats for a party. Of course, if a party’s overall percentage of the party vote improves sufficiently after specials it is theoretically possible that no-one who now thinks they would go into parliament would miss out from someone else winning an electorate on the specials.

              Another technical possibility, given the privileging of electorate MPs, is a 180 seat parliament (i.e., a 60 seat overhang), in the unlikely event that a party wins all the electorate seats but no percentage of the party vote. 

              I think that’s how it goes. 

            • Anne

              Can someone explain to me why a Labour electorate gain would result in a list loss? Would Carmel’s gain reflect the overall total of seats for National/Labour?

              Yes. The overall percentage of votes that Labour received entitles it to have a certain number of MPs. If an electorate seat is lost on election night and regained after specials have been counted, then the last person on the list who won a place would have to drop off.

            • Chris

              Thanks Carol didn’t see that paragraph.

            • Lanthanide

              Already been answered, but didn’t actually mention the list placings which is really what matters here.

              If Labour have won enough of the party vote so that on current electorate wins they get up to list member #22 into the house, if people who are placed at #23 or higher win their electorates then the total number in the house remains the same, but the list threshold reduces down to #21 or #20, and therefore the people who were #21 or #22 on the list no longer get their seats.

              In this case I believe Carmel is #24 or so and Kelvin Davis isn’t much behind her.

              Megan Woods, who is #57 on the list won Wigram, and so she gets her seat at the expense of whoever was #23rd on the list.

              Where someone wins their electorate and is within the first bloc of the party list, for example Phil Goff winning and being #1 on the list, it effectively doesn’t change the last marginal seats on the list.

              • Good additional detail.

                Ranking matters both in absolute terms (i.e., whether you are number 1 or number 60) but it also matters where those who are likely to win electorates are also the list (if they are on the list).

                • Colonial Viper

                  (if they are on the list).

                  Which is why I reckon MP’s like Damien O’Connor and Lianne Dalziel deserve extra kudos for going the electorate route only.

      • Vicky32 6.2.2

        Do you think National would ask for a recount?

        AFAIK, Bennett has said she will… 🙁

    • kriswgtn 6.3

      damm u bet me- facebook is goin off on this news hahhaha

    • Campbell Larsen 6.4

      Please let it be true – Paula ‘guacamole’ Bennett makes a mockery of all that is good about the west – from beneficiary bashing, intimidation of winz clients to removal of training incentives that she had utilized when a beneficiary herself – her time as the MP for west Auckland is a litany of betrayal.

  7. felix 7

    And she’s not even a westie, the patronising phoney.

    • Carol 7.1

      So would this be a victory for Waitakere woman and/or Waitakere man?

      *fingers crossed, breath held*

    • King Kong 7.2

      Be careful playing that game Felix. Russell Norman is not even a New Zealander.

      • Puddleglum 7.2.1

        Russel Norman has New Zealand nationality/citizenship, according to the wikipedia entry. He also has Australian nationality/citizenship.

      • felix 7.2.2


        Can we send him back to Aussie then? Sweet.


        Oh bugger, we can’t.

        • King Kong

          Thanks to a lot of you lefties who voted NZ First, Winston will probably be able to fix that with the xenephobic repatriation of all foreigners as part of a coalition deal with the next Labour Govenment.

          • felix

            Yeah Labour’s sure to go for that. In the meantime I have no problem with repatriating whiny ginger-haired Australian politicians. He doesn’t even have a beard FFS.

            Perhaps you could have a word to one of the bigots who’s actually in govt about that? Banks would be a good place to start.

          • mik e

            Winnie will probably start with oversize gorillas

      • mik e 7.2.3

        MJSavage wasn’t either but but he turned NZ from being a bankrupt country into a power house and took everybody with him .The greens policy is similar.

  8. Anne 8

    If it hadn’t been for Sue Bradford entering the electorate race I suspect Carmel would have won with a reasonably comfortable majority. As a rising star, the Labour list hierarchy must also shoulder some of the blame for not giving her a higher list placing.

    • Tiger Mountain 8.1

      Nah, was always going to be close. A problem for the electorate candidates who are mainly trying to raise their party profile for getting party votes is that if your name is on the ballot paper people are able to and may well, bloody vote for you. The extent to which people “know” whether they should or should not seems an inexact science even in Epsom. You could easily make a case for David Parker not having stood for the electorate to help bury ACT.

      It was not a good idea to stand Sue in Waitakere in the first place, and definitely not in hindsight because Bennett would not front up at debates to be exposed. So Sue did not get the chance to raise issues and policy and say “don’t vote for me, vote for Mana”. More left coordination is needed.

  9. Carol 9

    Some recent tweets from Sue Bradford on the NAct deal, which provide food for thought, especially the bit about needing to focus more critically on the Rebstockian welfare reforms:


    Nats’ welfare & ACC reforms specifically part of Banks/Dunne deal; really bad news, tho what else cld we expect from these Nat Party puppets
    5 Dec

    Nat/ACT agreement a Trojan horse to bring in more Rebstock welfare reforms, incl privatisation; hv just put out release http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/jobless-used-business-opportunity/5/109663
    6 Dec

    Anyone else find it striking that so much attention hs been paid to charter schools part of Nat/ACT agreem’t, & so little to welfare aspect?
    8 Dec

    • Anyone else find it striking that so much attention hs been paid to charter schools part of Nat/ACT agreem’t, & so little to welfare aspect?

      And little attention on the spending cap – which quite clearly interacts with the “welfare aspect”.

      I think the reason is (a) the NZEI and Principals were quick off the mark on responding to the prospect of charter schools; and, (b) schools affect ‘middle New Zealand’. 

      ‘Middle New Zealand’ doesn’t think that welfare reform will affect it. 

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        ‘Middle New Zealand’ doesn’t think that welfare reform will affect it.

        Middle NZ i.e. people earning $60,000 to $100,000 pa i.e. roughly 20% of the population, have (in the main) no fucking idea the trouble which is coming down the pike.

        • Puddleglum

          Yes, although when what’s “coming down the pike” does arrive, that demographic may well reach for fascistic ‘remedies’, at least in the first instance, rather than anything more uplifting.

          • Bored

            Ah but history never repeats does it? Thats what market fundamentalists keep telling me….

  10. For those of you interested in the powers behind the throne here is Invisible empire:

    • ianmac 10.1

      Isn’t overpopulation a real problem? That part of the film suggests that it is criminal to suggest that we have smaller families yet the pressure on resources must grow and grow with excessive population growth. The problem would be the How and When to halt that growth.

      • Afewknowthetruth 10.1.1


        William Catton postulated that the world went into population overshoot around 1860 on the back of the use of coal.

        Increased use of coal and then widespread use of petroleum have allowed the population overshoot to magnify immensely.

        Few informed analysts put a sustainable population for the Earth at above 2 billion.

        Continued drawdown of capital (forests, jungles, deep’sea fish etc. ) may hold off population collapse for a short time but now that were are past the peak of most things that keep people alive the long term implications are obvious.

        • Bored

          Gets worse AFKTT, with global warming my cabbages are going to seed faster than I can draw them down. Bloody friends wont even take them cos they are not processed or in cans.

          I think sometime next year or so they will reflect, hmm my mate Bored was offering me cabbages…now how did he do that?

          • Ianupnorth

            Was watching the news tonight; by 2015 they think they may have a cure for Alzheimer’s – so instead of 50, 60, 70 y. olds needing care (sorry the next bit will sound callous), we’ll have a batch of people whose life expectancy will be increased, who will all want to eat, drink and be merry, travel, work, etc, again with finite resources.
            Just saying, we keep researching and prolonging life, but dying is the only inevitable we share.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2

        The problem would be the How and When to halt that growth.

        The when was back in the 1950s at the absolute latest, the how would be through education and raising all people out of poverty.

        • ianmac

          Some clever person reckoned that if all the food produced in the World was spread around all the people in the World, we would all be close to starvation. Haves v Have nots? And when the population reaches 7, 8, 9 billion?

          • Vicky32

            And when the population reaches 7, 8, 9 billion?

            ‘Cept there’s no chance of that happening! I have observed that many people who want to reduce the population want to start with 3rd-world brown people… 🙁

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.3

        Population aging and decline is going to bring an end to the western economic system, even as it is needed to salvage a livable environment.

        This is going to be an interesting decade,

        Japan goes under first.

        • uke

          Not so sure of that – Jared Diamond makes a good case for the Japanese having managed their limited land and resources very wisely over the past millenium. Japan is still predominantly forested, for instance. Of course, nuclear power etc. is a bit of a game changer.

          • Colonial Viper

            I should say, its the Japanese economy which goes under first, due to debt defaults. At that time Japan is going to quickly run out of the foreign currency needed to import the raw materials and energy that it needs.

  11. aerobubble 11

    Council hire contracters ot build road calming. But what councils shoudl realize is that many who work for road builders love to race their powerful cars through residential areas, that causes residents to force council to put in calming measures.

    • King Kong 11.1

      I’m not quite sure I am following your logic.

      Are you saying that if councils don’t build speed bumps the road building companies will not hire the workers (who love to race their powerful cars through residential areas) therefore they will be unemployed and unable to afford the powerful cars?

      • Puddleglum 11.1.1

        Yes, I think that’s the logic King Kong.

        I think where aerobubble might be misreading the situation is that ‘boy racing’ has gone mainstream.

        I walk to the bus stop (and back) each day through an area of town that is prone to drivers who are keen to accelerate rapidly in low slung cars or sleek utes (all with large exhaust pipes and very noisy).

        My sense of who I see driving these cars is: 

        40% middle aged white men – short hair, chubby arms, classic male, small businessman/tradesman
        40% young women, reasonably made up – could be driving the ‘boyfriends” car, I suppose, but they look pretty confident and don’t seem averse to speed
        20% the ‘classic boy racer’ – young male wearing a hoodie (up) or cap on backwards inside the car, often with ‘mates’ alongside and booming music.

        In short, I think it’s not just those who ‘work for road builders’ who do the boy racing, but the ‘road builders’ themselves (and their kind). 

  12. Ianupnorth 12

    Just been sat at home listening to very old CD’s and listened to this by New Order http://youtu.be/2KO0zeP6ftY
    The lyrics seem pretty poignant for much of the world!

    At the end of the day
    There’s no food on our plate
    So we beg and we steal
    For we know love is real
    And if we don’t take a chance
    In a spare sideways glance
    These are all the chains I wanted
    To justify the things I do

    And when we kiss we speak as one
    And in a single breath this world is gone
    And when we kiss we speak as one
    With a single breath this world is gone

    It’s a crisis I know
    At the end of the show
    People change but we don’t falter
    Cause we know love is real
    This is no place to shiver
    So get up off the grass
    You were once the main attraction
    but all that’s in the past

    How much is free
    For me and you
    I’m on my knees
    I am a fool
    But when we kiss we speak as one
    With a single breath this world is gone
    (this world is gone)

    How could I fail to give her
    When she cried such a lot
    People change but we don’t falter
    Cause we use what we’ve got

    And when we kiss we speak as one
    With a single breath this world is gone
    And when we kiss we speak as one
    With a single breath this world is gone
    (this world is gone)
    (this world is gone)

  13. Jackal 13

    Injustice system

    The question is whether you believe that Maori are born bad because of their genes, or that social conditioning gives rise to increased crime or that the justice system is geared against Maori?


    So they were convicted of conspiring to commit grievous bodily harm but the actual law that applies concerns constructive malice, whereby the malicious intent inherent in the commission of a crime is considered to apply to the consequences of that crime.

    • ianmac 13.1

      Crikey Jackal. This couldn’t happen in NZ “But many families in need of government aid often have difficulty getting it as more and more obstacles are erected.”
      Funny that there is a prelude where beneficiaries are denigrated and maligned to justify enacting “difficulties”. Thank god that won’t happen in NZ!

      • Ianupnorth 13.1.1

        Google the Inverse Care Law – yes I know it is health, but relates to justice and education equally.

  14. joe90 14

    Billabong Pipe Masters live webcast

    Waves: 12-15 ft

    Weather: Sunny

    Wind: Light .

  15. joe90 15


    Rachelle Grimmer and her two children were a struggling family living in a rundown trailer park. The Texas Department of Health and Human Services denied her application for food stamps, saying that she did not submit enough information. Grimmer went to a welfare office in Laredo to discuss her case.
    What happened next was nothing short of horrific — after a seven-hour standoff with police, Grimmer shot her two children and then herself:

    • ianmac 15.1

      See Jackal @ 13

    • Bored 15.2

      Gulag USA, its all done without the wire and camps, the goons drive cars with flashing lights. The TV does the show trials by proxy. You don’t even have to administer the numbered persons or do the deed, they do it for you. RIP.

      • Jackal 15.2.1

        Unfortunately they’re modeling the privatization of New Zealand’s prisons on the American system… which is proven to be a complete rehabilitation failure.

    • joe90 15.3

      A disabled woman writes about her despair as she faces the UK governments plans to reform the benefit system.


      The current feeling of sadness is compounded by the fact that it doesn’t need to be this way. People could have fought against the Welfare Reform Bill but they chose not to. I’ve always been acutely aware of how much society hates me because I’m disabled; the disablist-motivated abuse when I was in primary school made sure I had it drummed into me for life that I am a second-class citizen. I had thought things were getting better in recent years with things like the Disability Discrimination Act, but clearly I was a gullible fool.

    • Vicky32 15.4

      That poor woman! Obviously, she thought she had no choice…

  16. joe90 16

    EPA: ‘Fracking’ likely polluted town’s water.

    A controversial method of drilling for oil and natural gas appears to be the cause of groundwater pollution in a central Wyoming town, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Thursday.
    The EPA last month said it had found compounds associated with chemicals used in the drilling process known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in the groundwater beneath Pavillion. Many residents say their well water has reeked of chemicals since the drilling began there and first complained to the EPA in 2008.

  17. Yesterday in Court I provided evidence to support my claim that the real reason behind Auckland Council’s attempt to remove Occupy Auckland from Aotea Square was because of unlawful discrimination on the grounds of political opinion.

    I held up in Court, as ‘exhibits’ banners that I had made, which have been used on many Occupy Auckland protests, which proved that many protestors were opposed to the re-election of a National/ACT government, and complaints from some Auckland Councillors to the Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay against Occupy Auckland, had come from National Party member Cameron Brewer, ex National Party MP Christine Fletcher, and C & R Councillors including Des Morrison and Dick Quax….

    CEO of Auckland Council, Doug McKay is a member of the Committtee for Auckland – a lobby group for the ‘1% ers’ that played a significant role in helping to achieve the railroaded corporate takeover of the Auckland region through the setting up of the Auckland $UPERCITY.


    Wonder if the Committee for Auckland ever discussed ‘Occupy Auckland’?

    Wonder how supportive of Occupy Auckland were the (UNELECTED) Committee for Auckland?

    Wonder if Auckland Council ratepayers paid Doug McKay’s Committee for Auckland membership fee?

    If so – on what lawful basis?

    Of course this private ‘invitation only’ lobby group for the ‘1% ers’, is not subject to the Official Information Act.

    (For more information about the Auckland SUPER corporate takeover of the Auckland region via the Auckland ‘$UPERCITY’
    check out http://www.stopthe supercity.org.nz and http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz )


    Penny Bright
    [email deleted]

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