Open mike 10/09/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 10th, 2022 - 93 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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93 comments on “Open mike 10/09/2022 ”

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  1. Adrian Thornton 1
    10 September 2022 at 7:07 am

    Two takes on the death of a Royal…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kul5_XVEktI

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PSdxFccfgNI

    I know which camp I am in….

    • observer 1.1
      10 September 2022 at 7:31 am

      I'd suggest the vast majority are in neither camp. Most people are neither fawning nor crass.

      • Finn McCool 1.1.1
        10 September 2022 at 8:05 am

        I think you nailed it. I have huge respect for the Queens loyalty and work ethic. But apart from that royalty doesn't feature in my life. I have no interest.

        • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.1
          10 September 2022 at 1:18 pm

          I am not a Royalist. But….

          What is it that is said, about everything before But

          • Finn McCool 1.1.1.1.1
            10 September 2022 at 2:09 pm

            I'll rephrase to put your mind at ease.

            ''I think you nailed it. I have huge respect for the Queens loyalty and work ethic. Apart from that royalty doesn't feature in my life. I have no interest.''

    • Jenny are we there yet 1.2
      10 September 2022 at 11:14 am

      The Queen is dead. Long live Down with the King.

      • Jenny are we there yet 1.2.1
        10 September 2022 at 1:14 pm

        For the child in all of us.

        ….They're changing guard at Buckingham Palace –
        Christopher Robin went down with Alice.
        We looked for the King, but he never came.
        "Well, God take care of him, all the same,"
        Says Alice.

        They're changing guard at Buckingham Palace –
        Christopher Robin went down with Alice.
        They've great big parties inside the grounds.
        "I wouldn't be King for a hundred pounds,"
        Says Alice.

        They're changing guard at Buckingham Palace –
        Christopher Robin went down with Alice.
        A face peered out, but it wasn't the King's.
        "He's much too busy a-signing things,"
        Says Alice.
        ….

        "Do you think the King knows all about me?"
        "Sure to, dear, but it's time for tea,"
        Says Alice.

        https://allpoetry.com/Buckingham-Palace

  2. Adrian Thornton 2
    10 September 2022 at 7:36 am

    That's suits me just fine…..I really like Crass…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beZPu-lS7dI

    …and am also in solidarity with the Republican Irish, and all other nations that have suffered under a long and brutal history of devastating British Royal imperialism……but then there seems to be plenty of modern imperialists around here so I get the tacit connections…

    • riffer 2.1
      10 September 2022 at 8:26 am

      Fascinating band were Crass. Time has helped with understanding where they were coming from – as a young teenage musician they both attracted and repelled me.

      Their political conviction was particularly strong. It must have really galled them how popular they became, and how they were forced to embrace the capitalist system they so despised in order to satisfy the demand for their music (which definitely isn't to everybody's taste).

      Cheers for the reminder Adrian.

      Here's the lyrics for that song in case you didn't understand the accent:

      You have this life, what for? Tell me.
      Spend it on shit, your ignorance appals me.
      You serve me your morals, changed for a fiver,
      Upright citizen, Penthouse subscriber.
      You won't print the word, but you'll beat up the wife,
      In your ignorant, arrogant, terminal life.
      You have this life, you deprive me of mine,
      With your twisted, imbalanced idea of sin.
      That revolves around money; how much are you bought for?
      A tenner, a fiver, is that what you're caught for?
      I'm sick of your pride, you think you can rule me,
      With crappy judgement from your respectable majority.
      Majority of what? You self oppressed idiot,
      I'm not going to carry you, I'm no compatriot.
      How many times do I excuse and forgive
      The damage inflicted by the way that you live?
      I hold my vision against your oppression,
      Your final defence, your only possession.
      I'll show you the blood, but you'll still point the gun,
      If the money's enough, or can you show you're a man?
      To your submissive wife, desperate whore,
      Home loving, mothering, stifling bore.
      You have this life, you twist and abuse it,
      Morals and money and media controls it.
      Can't you see the dead children, blood in the street?
      Every fist that you raise is a corpse at your feet.
      Every time you are bought, I don't care the amount,
      You are the rapist, dealing in death count.
      And you do this with mercenary morals, you shit,
      Oh, you've been told about dignity down in the pit.
      Respectable working man, honourable wife?
      A waste of energy and an insult to life.

      And here's some information about the album Station of the Crass.

      https://en.apoplife.nl/in-1979-crass-release-their-ultimate-statement-stations-of-the-crass/

      They got their name from a line in David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" song – "the kids was just crass"

      • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1
        10 September 2022 at 10:07 am

        Yep, I swapped my Sid Vicious t-shirt (that I printed) when I was about 13 to a pommy punk for his Crass t-shirt…crass were my political awakening and I never looked back.

        Love them or hate them (which many did) they had an original and unique sound…which is not nothing in the world of music….more than 99.9% of bands manage to achieve.

    • Ad 2.2
      10 September 2022 at 8:29 am

      Yep that's the Val Doonican number I'd be expecting.

      If Anarchists could write the equivalent of God Save The King to a thousand voices in a cathedral, they'd probably pack the streets.

      Meantime, most enjoy the singalong.

    • Jenny are we there yet 2.3
      10 September 2022 at 2:15 pm

      riffer

      10 September 2022 at 8:26 am

      Fascinating band were Crass. Time has helped with understanding where they were coming from….

      We could probably all do with understanding where all the passionate young anarchists are coming from.

      ….Can't you see the dead children, blood in the street?
      Every fist that you raise is a corpse at your feet.
      Every time you are bought, I don't care the amount,
      You are the rapist, dealing in death count.
      And you do this with mercenary morals, you shit,
      Oh, you've been told about dignity down in the pit….

      Luckily the young still have clarity of vision and the passion and courage to stand up to the sort of bloody savagery railed against by Crass

      My name is Ilya. I’m an anarchist living in Ukraine. I left Russia a few years back because of the crackdown on the entire anarchist movement…..

      …..Our platoon also has anti-fascist movement members who aren’t anarchists, so I’m going to speak for myself: Putin's invasion is not a war between two states. It’s a war between Putin’s regime and Ukrainian society. In my opinion, the Ukrainian state is corrupt, oligarchic, and neoliberal. I’m not too fond of it. However, Ukrainian society has a lot more freedom and pluralism than its Russian and Belarusian counterparts; than almost all of its neighbors. Turkey is no better than Putin’s Russia, while Poland and Hungary have swayed considerably towards conservatism lately. The Ukrainian state exerts considerably less control over its citizens’ private lives. Since Russia decided to export its authoritarian Mordor-style regime, Ukrainian society needs protection.

      https://theins.ru/en/politics/251492?fbclid=IwAR2t8ivPpZw0cxZLJFZsUEKvJIuxG6Joo3qr0zq0bEApIfjxGvt8BW3fq8M

  3. Incognito 3
    10 September 2022 at 10:37 am

    Members of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand have re-elected James Shaw as Co-leader, alongside Marama Davidson.

    A total of 142 delegate votes were received, 138 of which voted for James Shaw.

    https://www.greens.org.nz/james_shaw_re_elected_as_co_leader_of_the_green_party

    • Peter 3.1
      10 September 2022 at 10:49 am

      Like the usual front page headlines, the hysterical TV shock explosive news coverage, political journos trying to justify their existence and the obligatory David Seymour exposure, it was all nothing. It all ends up a footnote on the bottom of page 27.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 3.2
      10 September 2022 at 11:00 am

      Phew! Mind you, that's only 97% support – just squeaked in smiley

      • arkie 3.2.1
        10 September 2022 at 11:18 am

        Perhaps some realised their frustration was misdirected. A most salient point:

        Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson said it was great to have Shaw “back alongside me.”

        “Over the last five years, I have seen first-hand how hard James has pushed Labour to take more radical climate action. Much like me, he gets frustrated at the slow pace of change and wants to see the government move much faster than it is.

        “There is one simple way we can all make sure the next government takes more urgent action to address climate change and inequality – and that is by electing more Green MPs.”

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/474500/james-shaw-re-elected-as-green-party-co-leader-by-delegates

        • Incognito 3.2.1.1
          10 September 2022 at 11:35 am

          Many frustrated people are or become armchair critics and/or keyboard warriors with very little to offer by way of constructive criticism, new ideas, or solutions. There’s another political party that’s tailored for them and it ain’t the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. It’s not for the fainthearted to turn something negative into something useful, constructive, and positive.

          • arkie 3.2.1.1.1
            10 September 2022 at 11:45 am

            There was much talk of the dissatisfaction of the activist and youth wings of the Greens being responsible for Shaw's deselection, they are not among those I'd associate with disengaged and dismissive criticism. The open dialogues with members that the leadership reelection required largely appears to have reassured these groups. I hope it has sharpened their focus on the real brake on our Governmental response to climate change.

            • Incognito 3.2.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2022 at 12:34 pm

              When you operate under a consensus model pro-active engagement and re-engagement is a must, as is trust and being reasonable. It seems to have worked well and this is what one would have expected. It did also highlight how very few people in MSM and elsewhere struggle to understand this concept and context and how they’d rather jump to wrong conclusions than to listen, learn, and understand.

              • arkie …
                10 September 2022 at 12:44 pm

                Absolutely. I think perhaps it is a result of the medium in which most of operate. Headlines become clickbait become headlines.

            • Bearded Git 3.2.1.1.1.2
              10 September 2022 at 4:37 pm

              Shaw was never deselected.

    • Jenny are we there yet 3.3
      10 September 2022 at 11:12 am

      The King is dead. Long live the King

    • Anne 3.4
      10 September 2022 at 11:53 am

      So, the whole thing was a storm in a tea-cup brought on by a miniscule bunch of anarchists? The Greens need to do a little bit of thinking about how to overcome such pointless and costly activity – in more ways than one.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.4.1
        10 September 2022 at 11:59 am

        The Greens need to do a little bit of thinking about how to overcome such pointless and costly activity…

        Maybe – I kinda like the way the Greens show us it's possible to do things differently.

      • Tily 3.4.2
        10 September 2022 at 1:17 pm

        I will take the democratic structures in the Greens over what passes for democracy in other political parties. Grassroots democracy is sometimes messy but that is the price for including all voices. I doubt there are anarchists within the Greens, liberterian socialists or similar sure, but not anarchists.

    • Jester 3.5
      10 September 2022 at 5:13 pm

      That's good news that he was re-elected. Who was he up against?

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    10 September 2022 at 11:29 am

    "Aaron Hawkins 7

    He presents as the smartest person in the room. Mr Hawkins is a polished performer in council meetings and typically chairs them well. He is articulate, intelligent and a formidable debater. A progressive agenda maintained momentum under his watch and the city is investing significantly in fixing ageing infrastructure. Mr Hawkins rubs some people up the wrong way, both in the community and within the council. He is endorsed by the Green Party and this is not to everyone’s taste. Not all of his witty asides go down well. A question mark hovers over his people skills. His rivalry with Jim O’Malley appears to be needless and does little credit to either man. There have been grumblings about the ways information is, or is not, shared. Mr Hawkins’ principles are clear. He is an advocate for meaningful climate action, for not leaving the disadvantaged behind and he is socially liberal. Showing due respect to mana whenua is a priority for him, and increasingly for the council, and Mr Hawkins has been prepared to front this. His communication with media has improved. The direction of his waka is clear, but is he taking enough people with him on the journey?"

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/dunedin-city-council-how-they-rated

    • Ad 4.1
      10 September 2022 at 11:56 am

      Easily gets our votes.

      Portobello cycleway is fantastic.

      Pt Chalmers to Dunedin cycleway opening next April.

      Hawkins delivers.

      • Robert Guyton 4.1.1
        10 September 2022 at 12:15 pm

        Yours, and those of my Dunedin families.

      • left for dead 4.1.2
        10 September 2022 at 4:39 pm

        Which was well in place by the time he appeared.So you do have a link to validate this claim.

        • Ad 4.1.2.1
          10 September 2022 at 5:15 pm

          You don't understand politics 101.

          It's who opens it that matters.

          • left for dead 4.1.2.1.1
            10 September 2022 at 5:47 pm

            That's where I started,fella.

            • Ad 4.1.2.1.1.1
              10 September 2022 at 6:13 pm

              You're pretty tiring, but on record Hawkins supported all of Cull's key budget priorities, and as importantly has continued them. They are all published votes inside the LTP over multiple years that you can find yourself.

              Just as importantly Hawkins successfully pushed for the George Street upgrade. And got it.

              You will also see NZTA fold against the one way system, again on Hawkins' leadership with the Minister.

              If you are looking for a budgetary reason to rail against Hawkins, you need to keep digging.

              Whereas Hawkins has the record, the decisions, and the delivery to gain the votes perfectly legitimately. He's gained his ODT score of 7 with ease.

              • left for dead …
                10 September 2022 at 6:30 pm

                Pretty tiring"your the one pontificating here,I hardly say boo and If on that rare occasion,the likes of you come down with your micro aggression.
                Pleased to see you realize their are more than two around the table.

                • Ad …
                  10 September 2022 at 6:32 pm

                  You want to make a point about me supporting Hawkins for Mayor, do better.

                  • left for dead …
                    10 September 2022 at 6:45 pm

                    Your free to make that point and supporting Aaron is good,but I think he made a better councilor than Mayor,too divisive.

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      10 September 2022 at 4:40 pm

      Lee Vandervis hates Aaron Hawkins, so he must be good-vote Hawkins.

      • left for dead 4.2.1
        10 September 2022 at 5:04 pm

        Mr Vandervis is his own worst enemy,with very little chance.How about a Women this time around.

    • roblogic 4.3
      10 September 2022 at 6:19 pm

      He seems like a good guy but has a pretty gross blind spot

  5. Poission 5
    10 September 2022 at 12:12 pm

    US Household and NPO net wealth falls 6.1 trillion US$ in Q2,greater then Covid.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/z1/changes_in_net_worth/chart/

      • Poission 5.1.1
        10 September 2022 at 1:17 pm

        More to remove the wealth effect,which excites animal spirits.

        Even apart from the instability due to speculation, there is the instability due to the characteristic of human nature that a large proportion of our positive activities depend on spontaneous optimism rather than on a mathematical expectation, whether moral or hedonistic or economic. Most, probably, of our decisions to do something positive, the full consequences of which will be drawn out over many days to come, can only be taken as a result of animal spirits – of a spontaneous urge to action rather than inaction, and not as the outcome of a weighted average of quantitative benefits multiplied by quantitative probabilities

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_spirits_(Keynes)

        Look at the NZ housing bubble,where 42% price increases occured,as a mix of easy money and irrational behaviour.

        Now you can save 765$ a day by not buying a house in AK ( the rate of depreciation since Jan)

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1.1
          10 September 2022 at 1:32 pm

          Now you can save 765$ a day by not buying a house in AK ( the rate of depreciation since Jan)

          Couple more months at that rate and I'll have saved enough for a 20% deposit smiley

        • joe90 5.1.1.2
          10 September 2022 at 1:44 pm

          animal spirits.

          As in a few bob and he thinks he's rich/ slips through his fingers/ burns a hole in his pocket ?

        • pat 5.1.1.3
          10 September 2022 at 7:55 pm

          Unfortunately people dont understand that 'asset values' are ultimately a function of output…or those that do are short term in view.

          • Poission 5.1.1.3.1
            10 September 2022 at 8:30 pm

            Most of the on demand bourgeios have never seen double digit inflation,and the accompanying creative destruction,as value and demand transfer to productive sectors.

  6. heather grimwood 6
    10 September 2022 at 12:41 pm

    Aaron Hawkins' quiet competence in promoting forward-thinking measures needs the strongest possible support from prospective Council members and voters to elect them who would NOT be " rubbed up the wrong way".

  7. Chris 7
    10 September 2022 at 1:55 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300684095/retrial-request-denied-over-alleged-benefit-fraud-worth-7285

    This case highlights the very dangerous practice MSD engages in all the time, which is to equate legal marriage plus living under the same roof as unassailable proof that two people are "married" for benefit purposes. The damage this behaviour causes people, lives turned upside down, is immeasurable.

    In this case Theresa Jeffries had the guts to take them on. Most people don’t, and MSD knows this.

    • Belladonna 7.1
      10 September 2022 at 5:39 pm

      Add another couple of zeroes – and you'll come close to what WINZ would have spent prosecuting this case.

      And, for what benefit?

      • roblogic 7.1.1
        11 September 2022 at 3:36 am

        National voters getting their jollies from bashing poor people?

        • Belladonna 7.1.1.1
          11 September 2022 at 11:20 am

          TBH – I think that most National voters would have regarded her as the 'deserving poor' [NB: this is my interpretation of their belief]

          This all seemed to be around the time when her ex-partner was seriously ill and dying, and she was looking after him (you can still care for someone, especially in a time of trouble, even if you're no longer 'married').

          This sounds like bureaucracy gone mad, rather than a principled decision.

          And, especially, trying to appeal the decision – looks like a lawyer saying 'OMG we may have a bad precedent here, we must appeal' – rather than considering any ethical principles or the disproportionate impact on the individuals.

          The worst part of bureaucracy, is that it is blind to individual circumstance – the same 'rules' apply to all.

          • Chris 7.1.1.1.1
            11 September 2022 at 4:39 pm

            A lot of the trouble happens, and in a way is even more insidious, where admissions to fraud are elicited by MSD's insistence that they're telling people the correct legal test for what constitutes a relationship. There's already a bunch of myths around this like 'he stays more than 3 nights a week so it's a relationship' so it's already easy for MSD to sound like they know what they're talking about. "Sorry, but the law says your relationship stops you from being entitled to a benefit, so admit the relationship now and things will be easier later". Most of these cases we don't see, especially at the time they happen, but we know it's standard practice so the aftermath is all around us. Wrongfully established debts, often very large debts, imprisonment, needless tearing apart of families etc etc.

            Theresa Jeffries fought back, most people don't, and even amongst those who do there are still cases like Kathryn Harlen's:

            https://static1.squarespace.com/static/60189fe639b6d67b861cf5c4/t/62fde84265e4b8504354a69b/1660807241435/CPAG-KathrynDaughters-Story-Aug2021.pdf

            Then there are attitudes like these to combat:

            https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/06/just_give_us_our_20_a_week.html

            There are difficulties are at all levels. Surely individual entitlement is the only way to deal with this problem.

            • Belladonna 7.1.1.1.1.1
              11 September 2022 at 6:19 pm

              I agree about the individual entitlement in principle.

              Where I'm not so keen is the situation where a family member (usually a woman aka Mum) chooses not to be in paid employment, because the father earns so much – and the family only 'works' if there is an actual caregiving parent – rather than two absentee ones.

              I'm not so keen that Mum should get a benefit under those circs…..

  8. joe90 8
    10 September 2022 at 2:12 pm

    Who woulda thunk this could happen when the pro-p******* and their lies got traction.

    Way to go, scum.

    /

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/9/new-york-governor-declares-disaster-emergency-over-polio

  9. joe90 9
    10 September 2022 at 5:56 pm

    At two minutes Mikhail Khodaryonok, the former RU officer and analyst rapped over the knuckles early in the war for his frank assessments, explains the gravity of the situation Russian forces find themselves in.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1568310989149605888

  10. roblogic 10
    10 September 2022 at 6:09 pm

    Chris Trotter is peak Boomer here, slagging off the housing developments that are solving the housing crisis, giving shelter to those in need, cooling the overheated market, and reducing rent pressure

    The Bad Guys Are Winning | The Daily Blog

    What a silly old bugger. He should hand back his "socialist" card and cloth cap. Just another selfish NIMBY

  11. Ad 11
    10 September 2022 at 6:33 pm

    Is this the first time since the late 1970s we've seen a proper windfall tax actually proposed on energy companies?

    (216) EU proposes Russian gas price cap, windfall tax • FRANCE 24 English – YouTube

    At $9.50 a kilo what would a windfall tax look like on Fonterra?

    • pat 11.1
      10 September 2022 at 8:07 pm

      Got those cross hairs firmly focused on your own foot

    • Graeme 11.2
      10 September 2022 at 9:11 pm

      Had the pleasure of mentioning the payout, and the potential velvet price this year which is looking very good because of sanctions on Russia who account for half world production (we're most of the other half) to a couple of farmers moaning about the price of everything….. fucking lefty, always sees the bright side…

      Poor buggers are probably going to be paying tax because everything is too damn expensive, not paying those prices…

      • Ad 11.2.1
        11 September 2022 at 7:19 am

        Really high input prices need to stay that way to force the accelerated production of feedstock alternatives like local seaweed.

        Farmers do have a point, but they need to push for local sources with lower strategic risks.

        Fertiliser world in a squeeze – NZ Farm Life Media – Down to earth

        • Graeme 11.2.1.1
          11 September 2022 at 10:35 am

          I can't see much changing with fert prices for some time. We've become as dependent on cheap Russian fert supply as Europe has for gas. Going to be a tough transition but hopefully to a better place.

          • Ad 11.2.1.1.1
            11 September 2022 at 11:04 am

            It is similar to oil dependence since there's not much elasticity with not enough developed alternatives. Yet high price for the existing input is the only useful signal away from dependence.

            Farmers brace as costs spiral, one fertiliser up 125 per cent, feed an extra $30,000 a year – NZ Herald

            I have sneaking suspicion that if farmers don't push for import alternatives, the 3 Waters entities are just going to regulate the crap out of those farmers anyway. Maybe farmers have that sneaking suspicion as well.

            • Graeme 11.2.1.1.1.1
              11 September 2022 at 11:57 am

              It's coming out well over 125% once it's on the ground, especially if comparison is over several years. There's some heavy reassessment of priorities going on at present. Unfortunately this is probably going to lead to much greater intensification rather than less as inputs are applied in conjunction with irrigation to get best return. Won't be much work going into hill country for a while.

              There's a change in the rhetoric going on too, it's He Waka Eke Noa and transition now and the Groundswell thing isn't mentioned. Farm manager came back from a Farm Focus Group last week talking carbon credits on grey shrubland and fencing requirements for wild animal exclusion.

          • RedLogix 11.2.1.1.2
            11 September 2022 at 11:06 am

            Peter Zeihan has been warning on fertiliser for some time. I forget when he first brought this up, but his key message is that at the moment we are still essentially eating last years crop.

            From a global perspective the impact of famine is still ahead of us.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 11.2.2
        11 September 2022 at 9:30 am

        fucking lefty, always sees the bright side…

        Onya, Mate ! : ) On other….Hope all good for you?

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