Open mike 10/02/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, February 10th, 2015 - 186 comments
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186 comments on “Open mike 10/02/2015 ”

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    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1
      10 February 2015 at 7:10 am

      Mr Key’s office has previously confirmed Mr Sabin told Mr Eagleson directly a day or two before Labour informed Mr Eagleson.

      That wasn’t when they found out though, was it. I wonder whether it was a day. Or two. A day or two certainly means at least a week in National Party English.

      In any event, they found out before the 2011 election.

      Why do they want to look so donkey deep in this? Just how much involvement has the National Party had in Sabin’s activities?

    • tc 1.2
      10 February 2015 at 7:11 am

      Think of johnny as the goalkeeper, they have to get past a well resourced defense of audrey, clare, armstrong, editorial authors, tvnz, radio rantland etc etc who love to protect the brand.

    • Skinny 1.3
      10 February 2015 at 7:57 am

      we are lead to believe the NBR as Hooton outlined that they were aware of issue/s surrounding Sabin dating back to 2011, then using your ‘better’ judgment as PM wouldn’t you personally sit down with Sabin to get clarification that no more trouble can be expected. When you also consider Key had short listed Sabin for a Ministers position, and was about to appoint him to chair the law & order select committee.

      I find Key’s hands off approach negligent, or just too unbelievable for Kiwi’s to be expected to swallow. If no plausible reasons are forthcoming in parliament tomorrow, and given the seriousness of the matter a full independent inquiry into corruption should take place.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3.1
        10 February 2015 at 9:05 am

        Depends on how much power the Sabin-enabler wing of the party has.

        • Skinny 1.3.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 10:58 am

          Yes dirty play within the National Party. Joyce contracted Sabin & son to do a number on Collins who is his only real challenger to take over from Key. She is just too tough and has a shrewd legal mind, batting the milk saga away with relative ease. It wasn’t till Brook Sabin went after her like a blood hound did Key finally feel safe to clip her wings. He also culled some of her MP fan base sending a signal to others by demoting Maurice Williamson one of her biggest fans.

          So in the end Collins will be back sooner than people thought possible, after she goes after Joyce with a little help from her rightwing friends. This is the start of the self destruct of the Nat’s. Collins will be leaking all sorts of hits on Key and Joyce and anyone else that stands in her way.

          ACT smells blue blood and are looking to capitalise, isn’t this correct Gosman?

  2. Paul 2
    10 February 2015 at 7:01 am

    The government has enough for failing charter schools, but not enough for books.
    Further shame on Peter Dunne.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11399117

    • tc 2.1
      10 February 2015 at 7:15 am

      The man has no shame as you know it Paul, an A grade trougher and willing sellout merchant. Bet schools in his electorate are well resourced.

    • freedom 2.2
      10 February 2015 at 8:31 am

      Did you spot the glaring contradiction in that article?

      “Mr Macnaught said teachers who wanted hard copies of a specific book would be able to borrow them from the National Library, through a request sent by the school library.”
      This is completely contradicted by
      “Lending changes
      • The National Library will this year stop allowing teachers and school librarians to request non-fiction books on a particular topic.”

      The second quote stating the lending changes is verified by this article yesterday on RNZ
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20166464

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      10 February 2015 at 11:28 am

      I applaud them going to digital copies but to drop the hard copy format before everyone has digital access in entrenching the digital divide. Of course, once we take in to account National’s ongoing attacks on education creating a less educated populace does seem to be their goal.

  3. Morrissey 3
    10 February 2015 at 7:03 am

    One very bewildered and intimidated fat guy….
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d38A5jsm93U

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4
    10 February 2015 at 7:05 am

    This will give the Sabin apologists something to cheer about: showercam in prisons

    “Dehumanising a person and taking away their rights makes it harder to rehabilitate them.” Michael Bott.

    So it will increase the crime rate too. Bravo authoritarians. Who needs a secret prison when you can get away with it in the open?

  5. Paul 5
    10 February 2015 at 7:05 am

    Wonder when the government is going to have to pay for its appalling mismanagement of the economy.
    Putting all its bets on dairy starting to look like a really stupid idea.
    Still, we’ve got a ‘rock star’ economy. What a joke!

    ‘Deutsche Bank is painting a grim picture of the impact of dry conditions on the dairy industry, predicting it could be worse than the 2012-13 drought.
    Two years ago global prices soared by 40 per cent because of Chinese demand, boosting New Zealand dairy farmers as they moved out of drought, but the bank does not believe this scenario will play out again.’

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/65977073/bank-bearish-on-droughts-effect

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1
      10 February 2015 at 7:15 am

      I wonder what Deutschebank’s angle is. Obviously it suits their interests to tell this story at this time; perhaps it’s even true.

      I wouldn’t take a banker’s word for it though.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 11:37 am

        I wouldn’t take a banker’s word for it though.

        QFT

        Probably lining up the repossessions of farm land so that they can sell it for a huge profit to offshore investors.

    • whateva next? 5.2
      10 February 2015 at 5:34 pm

      Feathering the nest, then off to Hawaii with his lifetime salary for being a PM for over 5 years, just to top up his already overflowing coffers. Lovely photo album to keep him company if he gets lonely.

  6. phillip ure 6
    10 February 2015 at 7:59 am

    (it wd be interesting to hear northshoredocs’ take on this take-down/expose..

    ..seeing as he claims ‘there is nothing to see’ here in nz..eh..?..)

    “..John Oliver Eviscerates the Stunningly Corrupt Practices of Big Pharma..

    ..John Oliver dug deep into the corrupt practices of the pharmaceutical industry in a 17-minute rant Sunday –

    – that will be one for the ages.

    It’s a must-watch video tha lays bare just how deeply invested Big Pharma is in getting doctors to prescribe their drugs to millions of people –

    – no matter what..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/video-john-oliver-eviscerates-stunningly-corrupt-practices-big-pharma

    • phillip ure 6.1
      10 February 2015 at 9:30 am

      so i guess we are expected to believe that here in nz..

      ..big-pharma/doctors are squeaky-clean…

      ..eh..?

      ..and if we still believe that..we also believe in the tooth-fairy…

      ..maybe northshoredoc wd fancy being a whistleblower..?

      ..detailing for us the hows/whys of it happening here..

      ..y;know..’conferences’ all funded/paid-for by big pharma..?

      ..plus what oliver details..

      • Murray Rawshark 6.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 9:47 am

        Why wait for him? Expose it yourself. What’s the next conference paid for by big pharma in Aotearoa?

        • phillip ure 6.1.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 10:06 am

          ‘cos a whistleblower from inside will gain more traction..

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2
          10 February 2015 at 11:59 am

          I’ve had a time or two when a doctor has pushed drugs on me when I didn’t need them.

          • Philip Ferguson 6.1.1.2.1
            10 February 2015 at 9:07 pm

            Very good expose by Ben Goldacre on Bad Pharma, how drug companies foist drugs on doctors who then foist them on patients:
            https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/bad-pharma/

            One to particularly watch out for is statins. They nearly drove my old man round the bend; he seemed to be going crazy but when Psych Services for the Elderly tested him and did a scan, nothing was revealed out of the ordinary.

            My mother had started following horror stories about statins and I did some internet research. We took him off them and in about a month all his erratic/crazy behaviour and paranoid delusions stopped.

            There’s a massive amount of anecdotal evidence, and slowly-accumulating research evidence, that statins can have very serious side effects. Some people seem to handle them Ok, but a lot of people – abut 12 out of 15 cases I know of personally – where people had all kinds of side effects ranging from kidney problems to paranoid delusions.

            They don’t really do much for most people’s cholesterol, plus there is now plenty of evidence that cholesterol in and of itself isn’t such a problem.

            When my mother, brother and I decided to take the old man off statins his doctor wasn’t at all pleased. But other doctors and various medical professionals I’ve spoken to since are much more up-to-date with trhe problems re statins.

            Phil

      • b waghorn 6.1.2
        10 February 2015 at 8:32 pm

        Keep up the good work on this phill my mum was sick as recently, the doctor had here on a cocktail of drugs after research on the net she discovered that they were a bad mix and she didn’t really need one of them.
        When she told the the doc he rolled his eye’s and muttered something about the internet then said stop taking it if you want. She’s much improved without it.( the step fathers kidneys nearly stopped awhile back as well due to the amount of voltaren they had him on while he waited for a bionic bit.)

  7. Northsider 7
    10 February 2015 at 8:01 am

    Funeral Insurance is a very very profitable business for Cigna.

    It is lousy value for those who buy the products: when contributions are discontinued the Insurer holds the cream; people are less likely to “claim” in their younger years.

    Every day I see Michael Jones use his legend status to front the very heavy advertising aimed at poorer Pacific Island families. Keith Quinn has also fronted Cigna ads.

    Michael Jones is failing in his leadership responsibilities by fronting these ads.

    • phillip ure 7.1
      10 February 2015 at 8:28 am

      plus of course..many of the customers for the funeral-ads..

      ..are those who have died prematurely from consuming the fast-food junk jones peddles..

      ..i have been following/commenting on this christian who prays over (sorry..!..that’s preys upon) the poor/his own people..for some time now..

      ..and i am/have been quite toxic/scathing on the business-interests of michael jones…

      ..to me he is the current exemplar of hypocrisy/exploitation of own people..

      http://whoar.co.nz/?s=michael+jones

    • Lanthanide 7.2
      10 February 2015 at 9:26 am

      I’ve long thought that any endorsement by a celebrity needs to devote 1/6th of the advert time / space (either in print or on radio / tv, minimum 5 seconds) to the celebrity plainly saying:

      “I have been paid $xxxx by [company] to appear in this advertisement”.

      In the case of TV, it would require a head-and-shoulders close up of the celebrity speaking directly to camera without any music playing.

    • adam 7.3
      10 February 2015 at 10:04 am

      You mean Cigna who did not pay out the fire-fighters in New York after September 11. That Cigna?

    • Draco T Bastard 7.4
      10 February 2015 at 12:19 pm

      As far as I can make out, insurance itself is fraud. They take the money and then try not to pay out and this happens in NZ as well as I was reading in an article the other day (which I can’t find now – think it was in the NZHerald). This is a related article.

      http://thestandard.org.nz/why-insurance-should-be-a-state-monopoly/

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.4.1
        10 February 2015 at 12:29 pm

        Big corporations have turned societally useful activities into scams and rorts.

        Par for the course in this game of crony corporate capitalism that we have landed ourselves in.

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8
    10 February 2015 at 8:25 am

    ‘Things’ by John Key:

    There are the things we remember
    That we forgot,
    The things we forgot,
    That we remember,
    And then there are the other things,
    The things we forgot we forgot.

  9. travellerev 9
    10 February 2015 at 8:45 am

    Observations On The Day Before Waitangi Day 2015. A Deafening Silence!

    • ianmac 9.1
      10 February 2015 at 9:13 am

      A bit eerie Trav. Thanks for the report.

    • Molly 9.2
      10 February 2015 at 9:22 am

      Managed to go to Waitangi with the kids for the first time last year.

      Similar to what you described, and notable for the lack of non-Maori NZ attendees. Most non-performers seemed to be tourists.

      The blue line was there in force last year as well. Looking ridiculously out to sea.

      • ropata:rorschach 9.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 2:01 pm

        Went there last year too, shame about the weather. But really cool to see Maori celebrating alongside (a few) Pakeha! It’s a great day, sadly the good news doesn’t get air time.

    • vto 9.3
      10 February 2015 at 9:34 am

      From the very get-go it seemed like the locals had made a conscious decision to stay away and ignore Key, thereby removing any hope he had of making hay over disturbances.

      • TE 9.3.1
        10 February 2015 at 11:15 am

        Hi vto your are correct there, we dont want to give key any more credibility than his party loyals do, we also don’t want to be locked out of te marae by the thickening blue line, that just cause’s frustration and then sometimes violence and then key will be right … in his and his party loyals own feeble minds.
        why would we want to celebrate this day of the great colonial lie?

  10. Rosie 10
    10 February 2015 at 9:03 am

    Hi BLiP, if you’re around this one’s for you.

    Yesterday we had a discussion about doing some crowd funding, a give a little campaign was suggested, to publish your chronicles of Key’s lies.

    The motivation for this and benefits of publishing such a book are outlined in this thread, starting here:

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09022015/#comment-965675

    It’s your work we’re talking about so your thoughts are required before we go any further.

    I think it could be done and should be done. It’s time there was a public response to the media’s lack of holding Key to account, in a post Dirty Politics NZ. We can’t leave it to opposition parties to do all all the work. As NZer’s, ordinary people, we can also hold a mirror up to the govt.

    If you think the idea is daft, just say, and I’ll drop it.

  11. phillip ure 11
    10 February 2015 at 9:13 am

    “..The Latest Cannabis Science You Need to Know..”

    (excerpt..)

    ..’Five new cannabis-centric studies warrant major attention..

    The study is not the first time that researchers have identified an inverse association between marijuana use and the development of cancer.

    In 2009 Brown University researchers similarly reported that the moderate long-term use of marijuana was associated with a reduced risk of head and neck cancers – in a multi-center cohort involving over 1,000 subjects.

    In addition the largest case-controlled study ever to investigate the respiratory effects of marijuana smoking – found no positive association between inhaling pot and lung cancer risk.

    ‘We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer –

    – and that the association would be more positive with heavier use’ pulmonologist Dr. Donald Tashkin – Professor Emeritus at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA told The Washington Post.

    ‘What we found instead was no association at all –

    – and even a suggestion of some protective effect’.

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/latest-cannabis-science-need-know

    • phillip ure 11.1
      10 February 2015 at 10:10 am

      (and in related news..)

      “..Marijuana in Jamaica: Possession of up to two ounces decriminalised on Bob Marley’s birthday..

      ..Possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal use has been decriminalised in Jamaica.

      Bob Marley – who died aged 36 – would have been 70-years-old..”

      (cont..)

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/marijuana-in-jamaica-possession-of-up-to-two-ounces-decriminalised-on-bob-marleys-birthday-10034299.html

      • vto 11.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 10:25 am

        Is two ounces a ‘small amount’ Phil? Sounds like heaps to me

        • phillip ure 11.1.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 10:41 am

          in times past that wd have lasted me about two days..

          ..then i used to roll very large spliffs..(usually laced with hash..)

          ..and in fact..was known for the quality of my ‘joints’/joint-rolling..and yes..!..a filter..always..!..

          ..standards had to be maintained..

          ..nowadays when/if i smoke..it is from a very small pipe…and very small amounts..

          ..two ounces wd keep me going for yoinks..

          ..and yes..it is a reasonable amount..

          ..it’ll do..

          (i actually went to jamaica to break a crack-habit..

          ..and yes..i hooked up with vego-rastafari..

          ..and smoked shedloads of ganga to ease me thru the crack-withdrawals..)

          • vto 11.1.1.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 10:49 am

            hmmmm interesting….. did you find you needed more as time passed and your body / mind got used to it? i.e. you needed increasing amounts for the same hit? (within the context of either big fatties or small pipettos

            • phillip ure 11.1.1.1.1.1
              10 February 2015 at 10:53 am

              no..not really..

              ..sure..a tolerance wd build..

              ..but that effect from smoking more depends on the quality of the pot…

              ..not the amount..

              ..’cos if the pot is crap..u can chainsmoke it and get no higher..

              ..it is different from booze in that way..’cos even the cheapest/nastiest alcohol will get u drunk…

              ..cheap/nasty pot won’t get u high..

    • tricledrown 11.2
      10 February 2015 at 10:12 am

      Canterbury and Otago longtitudinal studies show otherwise.
      These studies have been published in Lancet unlike your study phil!
      which are published in a pro marjuana magazine.
      Smoking very “high”temperature substances damages airways and lungs!
      Ingested eating cannibis may be safe when not driving or working!
      Get real Phil every drug has drawbacks to Deny that is making your argument weaker!

      • phillip ure 11.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 10:33 am

        i repeat:..

        ..”..In addition the largest case-controlled study ever to investigate the respiratory effects of marijuana smoking – found no positive association between inhaling pot and lung cancer risk..

        ..and even a suggestion of some protective effect’..”

        what do you find so hard to understand about a study from the med-school @ ucla..?

        ..where the scientists/doctors had that same expectation you cite as fact..

        ..”..Smoking very “high”temperature substances damages airways and lungs!..”

        (exclamation-mark and all..)

        ..and were confounded to instead find:

        ‘What we found instead was no association at all..’

        w.t.f. do u find so hard to understand about that..?

        ..and yr ‘pot-magazine’ attempt to discredit the credibility of that study..

        ..is just fucken farcical..

        ..(and no..exclamation-marks don’t necessarily make it so.. eh..?..)

        • phillip ure 11.2.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 11:00 am

          and as anecdotal-evidence..i had a check-up about a year ago..

          ..and lung-function was tested..

          ..as you may think..i was keen/curious to hear the results..

          ..and to my surprise/delight..

          ..i was told i ‘have the lungs of a young man’..

          ..make of that what u will..

  12. joe90 12
    10 February 2015 at 9:55 am

    Ms England knows why these pictures haven’t been published.

    To all of us who have been charged, we all agree that we don’t feel like we were doing things that we weren’t supposed to, because we were told to do them. We think everything was justified, because we were instructed to do this and to do that.

    – Lynndie England

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/05/line-sand-fight-release-thousands-photos-prisoner-abuse/

    • Colonial Rawshark 12.1
      10 February 2015 at 11:22 am

      Echoes of what SS officers and other defendants said at the Nuremberg trials.

      People willingly giving up their moral agency to do the inhumane, while “just following orders.”

      • joe90 12.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 11:45 am

        People willingly giving up their moral agency to do the inhumane, while “just following orders.”

        That’ s why I cited Lynndie England because IMO it could well be the real reason behind the refusal to publish all of the images when the Ahbu Gahrib chain of command apparently stopped at the rank of staff sergeant.

        No commanding officers were prosecuted yet subsequent reports detailed the use of stress positions, humiliation, hooding, and rectal feeding as legitimate interrogation techniques.

  15. Philip Ferguson 15
    10 February 2015 at 10:20 am

    “State capitalism is usually described as an economic system in which commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity is undertaken by the state, with management and organization of the means of production in a capitalist manner, including the system of capital accumulation, wage labor, and centralized management.” – Wikipedia

    While the Wikipedia writer understands that state capitalism is a form of capitalism, this is not well understood on the New Zealand left. Much of this left, for instance, supports capitalism if the capitalist company is owned fully by the capitalist state. This left campaigned in favour of such ownership in the referendum on whether the government should be able to sell 49% of shares in a number of State-Owned Enterprises.

    But from the standpoint of the material interests of workers, how is being exploited by a company, functioning as a fully capitalist company, owned by the state preferable to being exploited by one 49% privately-owned, or even 100% privately-owned? Workers are no better off materially. In fact, when the state itself functions as a capitalist company it is more thorough – and more powerful – as the boss.

    The widespread left support for state capitalism in New Zealand also acts to disorient workers and retard the development of any meaningful class consciousness. It reinforces illusions in the nature of the state and of capitalism where the state itself acts as the personification of capital.

    SOEs: corporatised business as usual: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/soes-corporatised-business-as-usual/

    “Our asset” lays off 125, threatens more: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/our-asset-lays-off-125-threatens-more/

    What Solid Energy and Mainzeal reveal about private and state capitalism: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/neither-private-capitalism-nor-state-capitalism-but-workers-power-what-solid-energy-and-mainzeal-reveal-2/

    State companies, capitalism and the left: a Marxist view: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/state-companies-capitalism-and-the-left-a-marxist-view/

    Phil

    • Colonial Rawshark 15.1
      10 February 2015 at 11:24 am

      Singapore and China uses state capitalism to accomplish strategic objectives to strengthen their nation’s capabilities and potential. NZ uses state capitalism to extract more money from its citizens.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 12:36 pm

        +1

      • Philip Ferguson 15.1.2
        10 February 2015 at 9:16 pm

        I was always amused when neoliberals held up the Asian Tigers as models for the NZ economy. They were all built with not only massive state intervention in the economy but a sizeable amount of state planning.

        I wrote a study of the Japanese case back in 1994: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/japan-and-the-new-world-order-1-from-postwar-take-off-to-stagnation-1945-1994/

        One of the other amusing things in relation to the neolibs was all the Asian tigers, even the tiny places like Hong Kong and Singapore, built on an industrial base whereas the neolibs wiped out much of the industrial base in this country.

        They thought that as long as some people were making heaps of money somewhere in the economy it was all fine!!! They didn’t have much understanding of the bubble economy and its consequences – the more inflated the artificial economy is the bigger the crash will be when it comes. Even after 1987 they kept ploughing ahead. . . to new and bigger disasters!

        Phil

    • Draco T Bastard 15.2
      10 February 2015 at 12:35 pm

      Much of this left, for instance, supports capitalism if the capitalist company is owned fully by the capitalist state.

      Yep, noticed that myself. IMO, many services which are run in a capitalist way should actually be government services supported through general taxation. There may, in some cases, need to be a use charge to limit usage. Electricity would have such a usage charge but telecommunications wouldn’t.

  16. northshoreguynz 16
    10 February 2015 at 10:24 am

    Great insight from Danyl M over at the Dim-Post.

    “Hooton ascribes part of Key’s popularity to his preeminence as a commentator on light-entertainment shows across New Zealand media. More FM, Breakfast TV, Seven-Sharp, etc. Critically these are (a) news sources for ‘median’ or persuadable voters and (b) they’re formats in which Key can assert his version of any news story unchallenged, and then go on to tell funny stories about the All-Blacks.

    So there’s a reality-based community in which, say, people read the Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence’s report and see that Key’s office was found to have abused intelligence information for political purposes, but Key can create his own reality in the minds of hundreds of thousands of voters simply by going on Breakfast TV and explaining that his office was completely exonerated while the hosts nod their heads and smile.”

    So somehow Labour needs a way to get to those “median” voters. Replicating Key wont work.

    Link here. https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/key-and-reality/

  17. AsleepWhileWalking 17
    10 February 2015 at 10:48 am

    Samsung Smart TV users find out that their TV can record private conversations and pass them onto a third party.

    https://twitter.com/xor/status/564356757007261696/photo/1

    • Colonial Rawshark 17.1
      10 February 2015 at 11:25 am

      Every smart phone is a bug and tracking device; every laptop with a webcam in the lid is a CCTV camera.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.2
      10 February 2015 at 12:39 pm

      As I’ve been saying for quite some time: The people you really need to be concerned about spying upon you is the corporations, not the government. The government can be held to account, the corporations can’t (and the TPPA will make that even worse).

      • Colonial Rawshark 17.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 1:25 pm

        Nope it’s the government you need to be afraid of. That is because governmental power to imprison you, confiscate your property, run tax audits to ruin your life/business or outright execute you (eg in the case of droning US citizens) for purely political or venal reasons is beyond the interests and capabilities of standard corporations.

        As for “holding the government to account” – that can be done in a functioning (or mostly functioning) democracy.

        • McFlock 17.2.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 2:37 pm

          Governments can legally imprison or kill you.
          Ever hear of private prisons or “military contractors”?

          Corporations can sue you to bankruptcy and suicide. Or do you for copyright infringement, or trespass, or violating terms and conditions, or keep their aggregated data on a single unsecured database, or spend millions on lobby groups.

          You can’t vote to change a corporation, though, because people with more money have more votes.

          • weka 17.2.1.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 2:52 pm

            NZ examples?

            • McFlock 17.2.1.1.1.1
              10 February 2015 at 3:16 pm

              Auckland Central Remand Prison run by SERCO
              Corporate reps at TPPA negotiations
              File-sharing copyright infringment act
              Secret sources of mcvictim’s senseless-sentencing finances.
              Hager on NZ private military contractors
              Anything from the Winebox Inquiry.
              Anyone stiffed by a finance company or insurance company.
              $65 parking fines for 5 minutes too long outside dunedin stadium.
              Wheel clampers and their “fees”

          • Philip Ferguson 17.2.1.1.2
            10 February 2015 at 9:22 pm

            Yeh, but the private prisons and military contractors are under contract to *the government*. So Col Rawshark’s argument still stands.

            I’d say, however, government/state rather than just government.

            And you can’t really change the state or the government. You can change which party is in power but, whichever it is, it runs the same apparatus. For instance, the SIS operated just the same under Labour as National, for instance.

            I don’t want the SIS to be under Andrew Little instead of John Key. I want it abolished.

            Phil

            • McFlock 17.2.1.1.2.1
              10 February 2015 at 9:37 pm

              yes, if you reduce his list to two items and ignore the instances when technical illegalities appear to have been unpunished when large corporations have been involved, then yes, you raise a valid point.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.2.1.2
          10 February 2015 at 3:45 pm

          Nope it’s the government you need to be afraid of.

          Nope. As I say, the government can be held to account and changed whereas the corporations can’t. Of course, it doesn’t help that the government is presently owned by the corporations.

          • Colonial Rawshark 17.2.1.2.1
            10 February 2015 at 3:56 pm

            You still talk as if replacing one group of elite oriented politicians with another group of elite oriented politicians is going to have any real effect on the TPPA, mass surveillance, banking hyper profits, unaffordable housing, etc.

            They got rid of Bush in the USA and Obama has been worse, from a targeted killings, civil liberties and imprisoning whistleblowers perspective.

  18. joe90 18
    10 February 2015 at 11:17 am

    FJK.

    John Key said unless more money could be found, the convention centre could end up as an ”eyesore”.

    Under the deal, Sky City would build and design the centre for up to $402 million.

    In return, it could operate another 230 gaming machines and 40 tables.

    Last year, Sky City revealed the estimated cost could reach $530 million.

    Mr Key said that was because the design was bigger and ”flasher” than was originally proposed.

    “Ultimately Sky City has worked off a concept through to something that looks more like a project that’s ready to go.

    “I’m keen to see the best convection centre I can for Auckland because this is a very long-term asset.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/265717/taxpayers-may-cover-sky-city-shortfall

    • vto 18.1
      10 February 2015 at 11:42 am

      the snake oil salesman going about his daily toil ……….

    • b waghorn 18.2
      10 February 2015 at 11:47 am

      The first part of the gentle slide to tax payers subsidising another corporate has begun

      • vto 18.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 11:50 am

        I think this can easily be described as a payment to corporates rather than a subsidy to corporates.

        Taxpayers paying to build a casino…… *slowly shakes head*

        What has happened to the amazing free market? Has it failed again?

        • b waghorn 18.2.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 11:56 am

          When they say free they mean free for the wealthy to run things for there immediate benefit.
          It’s also all about keys legacy he wants a flag and a convention centre in his name plus a knighthood ,let’s hope Little can bring him to his knees this year so he gets none of it.

      • Draco T Bastard 18.2.2
        10 February 2015 at 1:05 pm

        This government have been subsidising corporations at the taxpayers expense since it got into power.

    • freedom 18.3
      10 February 2015 at 12:04 pm

      I know it’s banging an old drum but for the benefit of new visitors….

      Folk might notice the items listed as part of the original Government deal do not mention a 300 room hotel. For some reason this late addition to the deal is an apparently insignificant detail. Doubleplusgood deal.

      The proposed International Convention Centre will be 38,000sq m on four levels. It will include:
      Exhibition space: 8600sq m of exhibition space for 3500 people in three halls.

      Theatre: To seat 3000 people for presentations or stripped out for large banquets and other events.

      Gallery: A series of bridges connecting people to meeting rooms and theatres across the levels.

      Meeting rooms: 3000sq m of meeting rooms and breakout spaces. Walls can be moved to adjust the size of the areas.

      Sunset Room: To accommodate up to 1000 people for dinner or cocktails. It will look across the upper harbour and Waitakere Ranges.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11385010

      “At the end of last year, SkyCity said the original $402 million cost had been “revised” to $470-530 million.”

      “The documents the Herald obtained show SkyCity started making changes almost immediately after it secured land from TVNZ in September 2013.

      The most significant was the placement of a 300-room hotel on the TVNZ land. SkyCity had said for years the land was needed for the convention centre.”

      What does it cost to build a 300 room hotel? Who can tell but $130 million might just swing it.

      • vto 18.3.1
        10 February 2015 at 12:41 pm

        Yep both Key and Skycity know 100% about the sham scam that has been pulled here regarding the addition of a 300-room hotel

        The deal did not include a hotel…… surely the free market could deal with justifying the build of a hotel next to the country’s biggest casino and not need taxpayers to help them out? No? What the f&*k is the matter with the free market?

        • freedom 18.3.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 1:33 pm

          I have no problem with the government coughing up $130 million for a 300 room Hotel, IF we see every cent of the investment repaid in full at standard market interest rates plus a couple of points for the effort. Oh what’s that you say SkyCity? You could get a better deal than that from a bank – then go do that you %#&*^$ bunch of reprehensible parasites.

          • phillip ure 18.3.1.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 2:41 pm

            “.. Oh what’s that you say SkyCity? You could get a better deal than that from a bank – then go do that you %#&*^$ bunch of reprehensible parasites…”

            + 1..

  19. phillip ure 19
    10 February 2015 at 2:32 pm

    i approached it with a degree of trepidation/doing-duty..

    ..but little is giving a ripper of a speech..

    • phillip ure 19.1
      10 February 2015 at 2:44 pm

      no metiria turei there..?..

      ..why is norman giving the greens’ speech..?

      ..when he is bailing-out..

      ..shouldn’t turei be giving it..?

      ..and again..where is she..?

    • phillip ure 19.2
      10 February 2015 at 2:50 pm

      re little..

      ..favourite aside was to tolley and ‘woody’ woodhouse..referring to the resignation of sabin..

      .and the when did they know?-question..

      ..’the truth will set you free’..

      ..and that he ‘would come back to that’…

      • phillip ure 19.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 3:09 pm

        heh..!..

        ..peters is using his speech to taunt the national party backbenchers..

        ..over their impending leadership spill..

        • phillip ure 19.2.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 3:27 pm

          he tells them their upcoming embarrassment at the hypocricies etc will be acute..

          ..and he confirmed he will be standing in the northland bye-election..

          • rawshark-yeshe 19.2.1.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 3:47 pm

            did Winston confirm he will stand ? I didn’t get that .. I got his repeated promise ‘help is on its way’, but no absolute confirmation which I was hoping for ? did I miss it ? thx

            I thought he was marvelous today .. healthy and thriving.

            Link is up now .. here we go:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVhyx-pJUQU

            • phillip ure 19.2.1.1.1.1
              10 February 2015 at 4:08 pm

              he said ‘help is on the way’..

              ..and that:..’the campaign will start soon’..

              ..(key shouldn’t have taunted him..i thought that was a big mistake when key said it..)

              ..and it makes perfect political sense for him to stand..to build his/nz first profile..

              ..and it sets up an interesting dynamic..

              ..peters cd split the vote and labour cd walk thru..

              ..and peters wouldn’t mind if that happened..

              ..anything to bloody national…

              • phillip ure …
                10 February 2015 at 4:24 pm

                and peters was on form..

                ..much better than he was for most of last yr..(going on his questiontime-appearances..)

                ..he was particularly adept at demolishing heckling national party backbenchers..

                ..naming them..and then riffing on them..

  20. rawshark-yeshe 20
    10 February 2015 at 2:38 pm

    wow. Speaker David Carter has just disclosed that Sabin is the subject of the suppressed court case by shutting down all reference to an MP who resigned.

    Covering Key’s backside, that’s for sure.

    Sorry lprent .. don’t have a link as yet but will post asap so you are in not in any breach … spoken by David Carter interrupting and preventing Andrew Little’s speech at about 2.30 pm this afternoon.

    • McFlock 20.1
      10 February 2015 at 2:52 pm

      lol

      Protecting key, or simply incompetent, I wonder, if carter left no reasonable doubt that dude A was dude B.

      Even more interesting – MPs have parliamentary privilege when speaking in the House, but does the Speaker have privilege when giving a ruling? 🙂

      • phillip ure 20.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 2:59 pm

        i was puzzled by carter..

        ..yep..!..he has gone on the record…joining the dots for the first time..

        ..he’s ‘blown the gaff’..as they say..

        ..and yet he didn’t need to..little was tip-toeing enough..

        ..but in his ruling..which must now be in/on the public record..

        ..carter made a clear statement..that cd leave nobody in any doubt..

        (..and therefor able to be commented on..?..can those who know advise if comment can be made on carter joining those dots..?..)

    • freedom 20.2
      10 February 2015 at 3:00 pm

      Little was very clear to only mention that an MP was under Police investigation. He did not mention a court, or a court case or a proceeding of any other form excepting the aforementioned and publicly reported Police investigation.

      When the Speaker first rose to his feet it was understandable and to be expected as a precautionary measure, though him mentioning the suppressed court case in connection to comments on an MP under Police investigation was a shock.

      To rise a second time and again mention the court case, when Little was clearly moving away from that area of commentary, The Speaker only confirmed the connection existed.

      • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.1
        10 February 2015 at 3:43 pm

        indeed. here’s the link for Little’s nuggety attack on Key and Nats …

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URnuaz6-HRo

        • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.1.2
          10 February 2015 at 3:59 pm

          @lprent et al : the relevant comments re court case start at 13.00 and runs to about 16.00

        • ianmac 20.2.1.3
          10 February 2015 at 4:12 pm

          Just watched Andrew’s fiery emphatic speech and am buoyed! Thanks for the link raw.

          • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.1.3.1
            10 February 2015 at 4:25 pm

            onya, ian !

            and Winston is worth a viewing also .. if you don’t have 20 mins, start at 17. 35 mins … link is just above from me at 20.2.1.2.1

          • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.1.3.2
            10 February 2015 at 4:25 pm

            onya, ian !

            and Winston is worth a viewing also .. if you don’t have 20 mins, start at 17. 35 mins … link is just above from me at 20.2.1.2.1

          • Chooky 20.2.1.3.3
            10 February 2015 at 5:58 pm

            +100 ianmac and rawshark-yeshe…I was also buoyed to hear it on the radio as i was driving

            Andrew Little superb in his attack on John Key….and followed up by Russel Norman and Winston Peters

            ….now if this trioka/ triumvirate could get together and cooparate to help Winnie win Northland…they are a government in waiting ….close enough to roll John Key and his corrupt government sooner rather than later …..

            • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.1.3.3.1
              10 February 2015 at 6:48 pm

              if only they will listen …. and work together …

              am I right in thinking there is no party vote in a by-election ? Well, if all those who party-voted NZ First vote for a candidate, it will be game on !!

            • b waghorn 20.2.1.3.3.2
              10 February 2015 at 6:51 pm

              Sure is good to watch Little when he’s in that sort of form alright, it would be even better if he eye balled the rat key while he’s ripping into him.
              Its a shame that all the fools on tv3 news tonight showed of it was Littles repeated “masters of the universe” comment.

      • Anne 20.2.2
        10 February 2015 at 3:58 pm

        The Speaker only confirmed the connection existed.

        Indeed he did. Instructions from above? Do whatever you have to, to stop Little saying anything?… then the idiot went and gave the game away himself.

      • Skinny 20.2.3
        10 February 2015 at 4:21 pm

        I see Tolley is refusing to answer media questions relating to Mike Bush contacting her. Now Carter shutting down all questions relating to the ex MP is outrageous. Some of us still believe in transparency from Central Government.

        Some of us think things may need to be amped up by excising our democratic right to protest outside National electorate offices. Some of the Northland offices during the by election is a worthy place to start. People enjoy scribing their beef on placards and banners. What they write is up to the individual 🙂

        • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.3.1
          10 February 2015 at 4:29 pm

          how about it wasn’t Tolley but Collins earlier ? Tolley is snookered if that’s the case !!

          • Skinny 20.2.3.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 5:52 pm

            Some may say Collins originally leaked details about Sabin having a scrape with the law back in 2011 through her then good friend Slater.

        • McFlock 20.2.3.2
          10 February 2015 at 4:31 pm

          I’ll be intrigued to what comes out before the by-election – Northland will still be national afterwards, but it might be interesting to see how much of a hit they take.

          • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.3.2.1
            10 February 2015 at 4:46 pm

            if it all comes out, I’d take a reasonable bet that Nats lose the seat. And Winston was very, very clear today he did not consider himself in the house to be bound by any court suppression ruling.

            Technical legal question … if someone has pleaded guilty and the court has accepted such a plea, is it still sub-judice ? ( Tracey ?Murray ? Mickey? thx for your help as always !)

            • veutoviper 20.2.3.2.1.1
              10 February 2015 at 4:58 pm

              Yes, if a suppression order has been put in place by the court relating to the name (s) and/or other details.

            • Murray Rawshark 20.2.3.2.1.2
              11 February 2015 at 10:27 am

              In the mysterious court case we have at the moment, everything has been suppressed, and continues to be under suppression until judge lifts it.

        • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.3.3
          10 February 2015 at 4:33 pm

          skinny .. do u hv a link for that pse re Tolley avoiding questions?

        • Clemgeopin 20.2.3.4
          10 February 2015 at 5:05 pm

          That is a strange back sided decision from Carter in the house today when he shut out Andrew Little making any reference to an MP being made the chair of the Law and Order committee while under police investigation.

          YET, it is JOHN KEY himself that HAS been talking to the media about this issue announcing when and what date he was told about Sabin’s case (though he kept changing the dates) and ALSO said that he was OK with SABIN chairing that conflict of interest chairman’s post (even though it happened AFTER key/his office was already made aware through multiple sources), including Matt McCarten, of the police investigation!

          How can there be one rule for Key and a different one for Little?

          So, will the courts charge Key for the breach of their suppression order for his public statements?

          • rawshark-yeshe 20.2.3.4.1
            10 February 2015 at 5:40 pm

            they really are muddling up their knitting patterns and dropping stitches all over the place, aren’t they ? lie upon lie upon lie, and not a decent memory cell between them. actually, it’s potentially hysterically funny if it were not our democracy being corrosively attacked.

  21. phillip ure 21
    10 February 2015 at 4:15 pm

    f.f.s..!

    ..mora is defending screws watching prisoners in the shower/on the toilet..

    ..and the panelists are braindead fucken idiots..

    ..some airhead woman..(who was once burgled – and seeks revenge..is positively gleeful..almost biblical in her desire for generalised-revenge on prisoners..f.f.s..!..)

    (what is it with all these new dumbarse female panelists..f.f.s..!..)

    ..where are they finding them..?

    ..greg newbold came on..and is ‘disgusted’..the airhead snaps back at him..says that ‘prisoners should have no rights’..

    • phillip ure 21.1
      10 February 2015 at 4:56 pm

      ‘she’s a valley girl..!..she’s a valley girl..!’

      ..she’s doing a moon zappa riff..

      ..’fer sure..!..fer sure..!”

      • phillip ure 21.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 5:00 pm

        and the rightwing airhead male..inglis..

        ..obviously talking about something he knows absolutely fucken nothing about..

        ..and denounces the new greek govt…for ‘wanting to take ten steps back’..

        ..some more of that panel ‘balance..eh..?

        ..they were both airheads..

        (heh..!..i actually felt sorry for mora..for him it was like wading thru a thigh-deep swamp..

        ..he wd throw out conversation-starters..to dead-air..

        ..and all we cd hear was the wind whistling thru..and the tumbleweeds rolling around in..

        ..those matching airheads..

        ..it was behind-the-sofa-radio..

        ..excruciating..

        • joe90 21.1.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 7:01 pm

          A mention by the marvelous Tim Minchin.

          “In darker days, I did a corporate gig at a conference for this big company who made and sold accounting software. In a bid, I presume, to inspire their salespeople to greater heights, they’d forked out 12 grand for an Inspirational Speaker who was this extreme sports dude who had had a couple of his limbs frozen off when he got stuck on a ledge on some mountain. It was weird. Software salespeople need to hear from someone who has had a long, successful and happy career in software sales, not from an overly-optimistic, ex-mountaineer. Some poor guy who arrived in the morning hoping to learn about better sales technique ended up going home worried about the blood flow to his extremities. It’s not inspirational – it’s confusing.

          http://www.timminchin.com/2013/09/25/occasional-address/

  22. Draco T Bastard 22
    10 February 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Car hacked on 60 Minutes

    One of the vulnerabilities Kaufman and DARPA are working to eliminate that affects many is in the automobile. Cars today are loaded with computers networked to each other, and those can be hacked remotely. In a dramatic demonstration, he and his colleagues use a laptop computer to hack into a car being driven by Stahl. Much to her surprise, they were able to take control of many of the car’s functions, including the braking and acceleration.

    That is a serious concern and it makes you wonder just what these car firms were thinking or if they were thinking. The really interesting bit, though, is in the next paragraph:

    Kaufman showed Stahl a prototype of a program his department is developing to pinpoint and isolate any breached or compromised computer on the military network. “And before, it’d be completely invisible to us ’cause you’re hiding among tens of thousands of computers around the world. Now you and I can see [it] very quickly.” And, he added, “from here I could say, ‘Let’s shut that computer down. Let’s quarantine that computer off.'”

    Yeah, real time monitoring of computers connected to the network.

    • rawshark-yeshe 22.1
      10 February 2015 at 6:44 pm

      MH 370 anyone ?

      • McFlock 22.1.1
        10 February 2015 at 6:50 pm

        lol
        why not just head straight to 9/11?

        • rawshark-yeshe 22.1.1.1
          10 February 2015 at 7:01 pm

          very different .. not into conspiracies, but what they describe above is exactly what is known of the MH370 computers …. as little as it is ..

          • McFlock 22.1.1.1.1
            10 February 2015 at 7:21 pm

            nothing is known of the MH370 computers, other than when they ceased communication.

            There is certainly no telemetry from the flight, which is sort of the problem.
            Could be a hacker, but could be hijack, flight crew hijack, hypoxia+autopilot, hell even a close encounter of the third kind.

            Until Bob Ballard or someone find the thing, nobody will know – maybe not even then.

            • rawshark-yeshe 22.1.1.1.1.1
              10 February 2015 at 7:25 pm

              exactly. agree with you 100%. the story above simply demonstrates one possible explanation, and proves a possible scenario in particular circumstances, which is why I commented.

              I believe it deserves some oxygen and not to be forgotten, for the sake of the families, and passengers everywhere.

              • McFlock …
                10 February 2015 at 8:38 pm

                Serendipity: this crash was on telly tonight.
                Yet another possible scenario. Pilots didn’t notice they’d plugged the wrong coordinates into the autopilot, flew into the middle of the Amazon.

  23. ianmac 23
    10 February 2015 at 8:41 pm

    Maori TV “Rethink.”
    RMA Reforms. Just watched a half hour panel discuss the intent and practice of the RMA and broadcast on Maori TV “Re-think.” This is the first time I have heard/watched any discussion on this coming issue.
    Damnit! How come it is avoided on other MSM?
    The changes are certainly aimed at maximising economic advantages and minimising environmental ones.
    Hence the Government is politically appointing Boards of Enquiry to avoid public input and avoiding the Courts for appeal.
    When the detail becomes clearer will we protest?

    Host the excellent Stacey Morrison.

    • Morrissey 23.1
      10 February 2015 at 9:00 pm

      And why do they automatically parrot the government-friendly formulation that these savage assaults against the right of citizens to challenge powerful interests are RMA “reforms”?

      Similar anodyne language—“reform”, “changes”, “restructuring”—is used whenever there is discussion of the massive cuts to public housing, hospitals, education and welfare.

      Rather than speak plainly, the likes of Brent Edwards on Radio NZ National seem more than happy to use the distorting and misleading vocabulary of the government.

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