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Open mike 10/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 9:04 am, July 10th, 2014 - 312 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

312 comments on “Open mike 10/07/2014”

  1. mickysavage 1

    Fingers crossed the gremlins have been sorted out.

    And to Tania Billingsley all I can say is RESPECT!

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

    Rape culture is: describing an alleged assault as a “sex case”.

    Nice to see someone is prepared to tell the truth about our bored insincere Prime Minister and his incompetent lackeys.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      To add insult to injury:

      “I deeply regret the distress caused to the woman at the centre of this incident…”

      Can someone tell John Allen to apologise for his department’s failings or shut the fuck up? Hardly surprising that McCully’s creature doesn’t get it.

  3. anker 3

    100+

    Tania Billingsley. One brave young women.

  4. Zorr 4

    YOU’RE BACK!!!

    (and here was me thinking you didn’t love me any more…)

    Thank you thank you thank you thank you

    Now save me from the tedium that is this bullshit writing:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10250511/Cunliffes-apology-patting-himself-on-the-back

    • bad12 4.1

      i arrived by the backdoor, my usual method gets me to ‘the page’, but, clicking on nything after the ‘Google’ has put ‘the Standard page’ up simply creates a blank white screen,

      The backdoor, Google up a comment that is specific to your username,(you might be able to use any username), this brings up an old page of ie: ‘Open Mike’,

      Click on the ‘comments rss’ icon at the top right of the page,

      This takes you to a strange looking page with a series of comments that are obviously from the Standard,

      Click on the comment with the closest date to today and hey presto you land here…

      • vto 4.1.1

        Almost all techies are men and for the outage it must be said that I am sorry for being a man

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1

          vto: just another boy who believes his hurt feelings take priority over sexual violence.

          All the things we say about men, all the ways we use the word ‘man’, all the things we expect boys to do to become men, all the roles and norms we arrange for men – all of this is what ‘being a man’ is about.

          It’s not really about biology…

          Puddleglum at TDB./a>

          • vto 4.1.1.1.1

            No I really am genuinely sorry for being a man, even though it was my female partner who ladled out the violence last night.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1.1.1

              What does “being a man” mean to you? I’m picking faux victimhood.

            • The Al1en 4.1.1.1.1.2

              “it was my female partner who ladled out the violence last night.”

              Sorry to read that, go to the authorities, lay a complaint and keep yourself safe.

              • bad12

                Why would anyone stay in a violent relationship, no matter what side of the gender divide you were born into,

                Fear of loneliness???, wanting to appear ‘normal’???, the family unit, the most dangerous place for anyone to be…

                • vto

                  Why? That is a complex and intensely personal question. The violence takes psychological and verbal form, rarely physical. It is these other two forms which cause more damage though imo. How to stop it without leaving? Dunno.

                  • bad12

                    If the ‘pattern’ of the relationship is set and has been so over a long period then ‘leaving’ i would suggest is pretty much the only option,

                    Obviously, depending upon the level that ‘the relationship’ can be discussed leaving with a codicil of what changes need be made,(from both perspectives), might allow it to continue after a cooling down period…

                  • Zorr

                    Just firstly, a little nit pick. If it is psychological/verbal abuse then it isn’t “violence” because violence refers to a physical act of abuse.

                    Secondly, your situation sucks. There are no two ways about it. To me (because I’ve been there as well), there are a couple of ways of dealing with it and one of them isn’t actually airing it in a public forum during a discussion of physical violence towards women because it gets you either branded as disingenuous or attempting to distract from the discussion at hand.

                    The statement of “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them” typifies this situation because, despite the emotional suffering, your physical safety seems to still be intact. No woman has that luxury.

                    • RedLogix

                      despite the emotional suffering, your physical safety seems to still be intact.

                      Which misstates the issue horribly. After all what is the difference between breaking a leg skiing and having it broken because your partner threw you out the first floor window?

                      Clue – it’s not the broken leg.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      If it is psychological/verbal abuse then it isn’t “violence” because violence refers to a physical act of abuse.

                      Well it’s a very fine line with very wide, grey borders.

                    • Zorr

                      I’m confused at what conclusion you are trying to draw here RedLogix? I was merely stating that within the context of his relationship, vto seems to still (at least) be safe from physical abuse by his partner. I was then using that to point out that women are always under threat of physical abuse.

                      If the conclusion you were trying to draw was that his suffering within his relationship is somehow equatable to domestic violence victims, then I have to beg to disagree because often they are also being subjected to the same emotional/psychological abuse that he claims to suffer as well as wearing their partners fist upon their face.

                    • Zorr

                      CV – hence why I said it was a nitpick. However, to most in my experience, violence is considered an act of physical aggression.

                      shrug

                    • NZ Femme

                      A small nit pick with what you’ve written Zorr,

                      Many domestic violence/abuse help centers don’t make the distinction between physical and psychological abuse that is being made here. For example, North Harbour Living Without Violence includes verbal abuse, the use of social isolation, humiliation, name calling and other forms of emotional abuse under the rubric of Domestic Violence.

                      http://www.livingwithoutviolence.org.nz/dv/index.php

                    • RedLogix

                      So we agree that the emotional trauma is the core of the matter. So how does it help vto to be told that ‘at least his physical safety is intact’. That isn’t what is important to him.

                      Instead I read it as an indirect way of minimising the situation.

                    • bad12

                      Isn’t that bit of a ‘Godwin’ tho,”One of them isn’t actually airing it in a public forum during a discussion of physical violence toward women etc”

                      Why shouldn’t He air what He sees as violence, albeit verbal/psychological violence, in an open forum,

                      Are you afraid that the other side of the equation will paint women in a less than glowing light,

                      Simply trying to erase verbal/psychological violence from the conversation is to say the least extremely unhelpful as such violence, the verbal/psychological type, is often the precursor to physical violence,

                      In the complex mix of the causes of violence,(setting aside for the moment sexual violence), verbal/psychological violence can be shown to lead to physical violence committed by either the male or the female in a relationship…

                    • Zorr

                      @NZ Femme – fair enough. Also, thank you for providing that important information.

                      If I’m to be honest, my issue with vto’s posts is that they are single one liners along the lines of “men suffer abuse too” using himself as an example. I think everyone is on the same page that no-one should suffer abuse of any kind in our society.

                      Maybe I am bringing a little too much baggage to this conversation because I have been dealing a lot with diversionary tactics in social media over the last few days from people using the “men suffer too” line in order to derail legitimate conversation about the gender violence that overwhelmingly affects women. Often these people make arguments based on a belief that there are no services available for men (despite all government run services being 100% available to all) and feel that the services like Womens Refuge should be open to men as well. This is without them knowing that they were created out of a need by the community and are only partly funded by our government.

                      I will add this on here because I feel it is accurate, will be interesting to see what people say. These cries of “men suffer too” feel similar to cries of “reverse racism” or “misandry” and an attempt to deflect the discussion from the important issue of what the hell are we going to do about a country full of men who can’t keep their fists to themselves.

                      @bad12 – a tongue can cut but fists can kill.

                    • bad12

                      Zorr, that’s rather weak do you not think, ”A tongue can cut but fists can kill”, what you are doing is concentrating upon the end result of what may well have started long ago as a verbally/psychologically abusive relationship while ignoring the genesis of such violence…

                    • Zorr

                      @bad12 – I should have probably made it more bland so it didn’t come off silly. The point I was trying to make is that we are all responsible for our actions. No matter the provocation, violence should never be an answer.

                      As horrible as emotional/psychological abuse is (and I have come from that place having been raised in such a household), it is still no excuse (in my mind) for raising your fists against someone.

                    • NZ Femme

                      I understand your point around diversionary/distraction tactics Zorr; I hesitated to post for that reason. And I’ve had my own issues with VTO previously during the roast busters blow up here – before VTO disclosed that he was in what sounds like a toxic/abusive domestic situation a wee while ago.

                      So…I erred on the side of caution today, and am taking VTO’s disclosures as truthful. While the one-liners could be read as distraction/diversionary tactics because of the current context, I’m more inclined (now) to view them as coming/lashing out from a place of pain. I think it’s possible to acknowledge the pain of male victims of DV/abuse, and simultaneously acknowledge the horrific statistics for DV and sexual violence against women.

                      I’m also in the slightly weird situation of having previously experienced DV from a female partner that culminated over a period of six years and ultimately had me physically fearing for my life. So, I guess there’s also a part of me that gets the “but what about me?” stuff that seems to explode whenever we try and discuss one (very large and horrible) gendered experience of DV from the male perp/female victim spectrum. I absolutely understand and agree with needing to prioritize. I just wish there was some way of doing that which doesn’t result in minimzing the effects of DV on other groups.

                    • Zorr

                      I had not been aware of any previous disclosures by vto and have only seen them usually post things that I view as diversionary when taken in the context of an active political blog. With that additional information, it makes it less so and I wouldn’t have been so quick to fire my mouth. I’ve never been good at keeping my mouth shut though and dealing with the male privilege/rape culture discussion has begun rubbing raw as I’m constantly having to rehash ground with people I had thought should know better. Deconstructing #notallmen because people are wrong on the internet is possibly one of the things that has contributed to a short fuse on this issue…

                      My personal opinion (on this specific issue) is that domestic violence is never acceptable no matter who is involved and in what role. My favorite comment regarding humans is that we are rationalizing creatures, not rational ones. We are emotional actors and sometimes we cannot control our behaviors and actions in the ways we wish. However, if we don’t hold ourselves accountable for our actions, then who? The worst thing we can do with domestic violence is continue to sweep the pieces under the carpet and the least we can do is apologize to the victims.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      ‘…having to re-hash ground…”

                      That’s the case for any issue.

                      Thanks for all the considered responses. It was a genuine question to vto. Puddleglum expressed it so clearly, that ‘being a man’ is a social construct that has multiple, overlapping and often mutually exclusive meanings.

                      All grown up. Emotionally mature? I shudder to realise that women have to see us as threats. McCully ‘did a McCully’. So do most of us.

                      Time for a change.

                  • NZ Femme

                    I don’t know where in NZ you are VTO, but North Harbour Living Without Violence are an organization that can work with men experiencing domestic violence. They don’t have specific programs for male victims/survivors but from what I understand, can work one on one.

                    http://www.livingwithoutviolence.org.nz/dv/index.php PH 09 489 3770

                    • vto

                      Noted NZ femme thanks. It is real, and damaging. You seem very astute in this area.
                      (had to bow out of the rest of that conversation – too close to the bone)

                    • NZ Femme

                      @vto

                      Yes it’s real and damaging – also very confusing. Abusers of all stripes are very good at keeping their target off balance. Love alternating with awful and harmful actions. I think many people experiencing abuse in a relationship find it difficult to leave for that reason. (I know I did) At some point, we’re faced with the reality that the love that (may) still remain is out-weighed by the harm experienced to our psyches. I wish you well vto. Don’t be afraid to seek help, or leave – there is still joy to be had – as unlikely as that may seem.

                • bad12

                  i should qualify this comment with, ”the Dysfunctional family unit, the most dangerous place for anyone to be”…

      • bad12 4.1.2

        ‘Feedburner’ appears to be the ‘site’ that lets me back onto the Standard,

        Note: while the comment above appears on the page, after i posted the comment above i disappeared back to the blank white page,

        i then accessed ‘feedburner’ through the ‘most visited’ icon on my laptop and hey presto i was back to yesterday’s ‘Open Mike’,

        From there i clicked on ‘Open Mike’ which gave me access to today’s ‘Open Mike’

        Don’t know if any of that helps or just makes things more confusing…

    • marsman 4.2

      A day without The Standard is hard to bear. Glad you are back and a big thank you to lprent.

      • Belladonna 4.2.1

        +1000

        • North 4.2.1.1

          That “hard to bear” bit. True. It’s worrying. Thanks lprent. Bad……such ingenuity ! Not wired for that myself.

          • bad12 4.2.1.1.1

            Lolz North, it helps if you havn’t got a clue what your doing,(my Ha Ha Ha of the day was when i thought of Googling up an old Standard comment of mine to try and get in through the backdoor, Lo and behold, there’s a whole page of 🙄 PG, i think on His own website, whining like a beaten dog about comments i had made to Him, as if anyone were interested)…

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.2

        +2,000

        NZ politics is a miserable place without the sunshine that is The Standard

        (all hail lprent!!!)

        • Lanthanide 4.2.2.1

          Luckily I have a brand new kitten to occupy my free time at the moment.

        • greywarbler 4.2.2.2

          And I’ll raise you a thousand on TS being BIG and irreplacable. There is no other like it.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.3

        +2,000

        NZ politics is a miserable place without the sunshine that is The Standard

        (all hail lprent!!!)

        • Macro 4.2.3.1

          will echo that as well! 🙂
          Seems a lot quicker as well. Thought about you dealing with the issues (what ever they were) yesterday lprent – many many thanks.

          • The Al1en 4.2.3.1.1

            Not getting the recent comment box appearing in chrome.

            • bad12 4.2.3.1.1.1

              Yeah true, the whole right side of ‘the Standard’ is just blank white space here, up top right there are the icons:

              Login>
              Donate>
              Contribute>
              Articles RSS>
              Comments RSS>

              The rest is blank, just added this in case it helps….

              • The Al1en

                Yerp, confirmed what I’m seeing, or not, as is the case.

                • bad12

                  Note: the ‘right side’ of the Standard is now showing everything except the feed which links to other sites like the daily blog,

                  When posting a comment, the comment is appearing in the correct position,but after posting the comment i am being sent back to the blank page,(a true reflection of the inner workings of my mind?),

                  Access back is being gained from ”most visited” in my tool-bar…

                  • Andrew

                    try pressing CTRL+F5 a couple if times. this will refresh the browser cache. you could also try opening a windows command prompt (if you are on windows) and typing:

                    ipconfig /flushdns

                    I think some part of the site might have been moved yesterday and so your computers DNS cache might be looking in the wrong place. Although it should have sorted itself out by now.

                    • bad12

                      Thanks for that Andrew, i much prefer the ”should have sorted itself out by now” method of trouble shooting, i find that this method doesn’t get me into so much trouble,

                      i well remember the great fun i had when i first used one of these things,(laptop), connected via Teleconned wireless aircard and being one of those who have the habit of diving in without reading the instructions first i threw in the floppy disk and proceeded to connect myself to the web,

                      i kicked myself later for not writing down a copy of all the steps this connection took via my new found skill as an ungenius, But, the Teleconned tech bloke assured me that my efforts had cooked the innards of the nearest cell tower,(as He begged me to stop and follow the precise instructions He gave)…

      • Saarbo 4.2.4

        +1

  5. Kiwiri 5

    Banksters love New Zealand.
    And Aussie ones particularly adore Kiwis?

    NZ banks post record profit of $4 billion

    “New Zealand’s banks collectively posted a record profit in the year to April.

    “The country’s eight main banks together made almost $4.3 billion which is up 22% on the previous year, according to KPMG.”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/nz-banks-post-record-profit-4-billion-6023659

    • dv 5.1

      $1000 profit per person, man women and child.

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        and they are complaining that mortgage-deposit requirements..

        ..are restricting them..

        ..they are like fucken farmers..those bankers..

        ..no matter the event/circumstance..

        ..it’s always an excuse for a good moan..

        ..about how hard done by they are..

        ..partial-nationalise all of them..!..(kiwibank excepted..)

        ..take 51% control/profits from the bankster-bastards..!

        ..clearly nothing else will work..

        ..we have one in four nz children living in poverty..

        ..we have 15,000 men/women/children sleeping rough just in auckland..

        ..and we have these bastards increasing their profits by 22% in the last year..taking billions in profit off-shore..

        ..and moaning with it..

        ..what’s wrong with that picture..?

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.2

        $1000 THEFT per person, man women and child.

        just for clarification, you understand

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2.1

          +1

        • Naki man 5.1.2.2

          $1000 THEFT per person, man women and child.

          “just for clarification, you understand”

          Profit is theft is that what you are saying?
          The 26,000 highly paid staff and anyone in kiwi saver sharing in that profit might disagree,
          so would millions of Kiwis who don’t want to lose their deposits.

  6. risildowgtn 6

    Long day with no TheStandard yesterday..

    Welcome back 🙂

  7. having a life-diploma in addictions..

    ..and knowing how withdrawal-signs/symptoms manifest..

    ..yesterday i found out i have a standard-habit..

    ..(it came as a bit of a shock..i was like a rat with its’ cocaine-feeder suddenly switched off..constantly batting at the lever..but to no avail..)

    ..should i use the daily blog as a form of methadone..?

    • bad12 7.1

      Have you got citation Phillip, for the bit about being like a rat because of your lack of access to ‘the Standard’…

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        an education could have taught u what a simile is..eh..?

        ..and what it is used for..

        • bad12 7.1.1.1

          So, is that the sum total of learning’s you garnered from this university education Phillip, or can we expect a gush, splash, or, spray of pearls of wisdom in such a vein,

          Seriously tho, Rattus behavior is usually more deep seated in the psyche than a mere web-site outage is likely to expose…

        • greywarbler 7.1.1.2

          You two are comedy geniuses phillip. It’s a bit like Laurel and Hardy type though where the slapstick got a bit physical and one was quite sick. One of them put a light globe in the other’s mouth and slapped his cheeks sharply. Luckily you two are apart and the carry-on can always be ignored phillip. It’s the only way with such a mentality.

    • Te Reo Putake 7.2

      Are you claiming to be addicted to cannabis, Phil? I didn’t think that was possible. Habit forming, yes, but addictive, no.

      • phillip ure 7.2.1

        nah..!

        ..i was thinking more heroin/cocaine/crack..

        ..cannabis is a healing-agent..

        ..that can help you kick those nasties..

        ..and should be available/offered as a salve to all of those trying to kick anything..

        ..it distracts you from and eases you thru physical/mental-addiction withdrawals..

        ..in my experiences..

        • Te Reo Putake 7.2.1.1

          Sweet, gotta be better than the other alternatives. Glad you’re rid of them.

          • phillip ure 7.2.1.1.1

            heh..!..chrs..so am i…

            • marty mars 7.2.1.1.1.1

              onya phil – what a journey life is…

              • chrs..

                ..and as a point of information/warning..crack is the most addictive/obsessive of all the drugs i tried/used..

                (don’t ever be ‘tempted’..people..)

                ..it horrified/scared me so much..how quickly i became so wired/fucked-up.. i physically ran away from it..to jamaica..

                ..and healed myself staying with a bunch of vegetarian rastafarian pot-growers/exporters..

                ..and once again..strong pot was what eased me over the bumps…

                ..it has been a bit of a ‘journey’..this ‘life’..

                ..i look back at myself at times..and go..’w.t.f. were you thinking..?’

                ..and when i see crack-addicts on tv/wherever..my heart goes out to them..

                ..i know the grip that gorilla has on them…

                ..and there but for etc etc…

  8. Paul 8

    Espiner fails to hold National cabinet members to account for not fronting to discuss important issues
    Wednesday… Bennett…inequality
    Thursday ….McCully…..Tania Billingsley statement.

    By comparison Campbell Live make pointed comments about Parata not fronting to discuss Education policy on Monday.

    Our undemocratic government is being facilitated by a public broadcaster which appears to have fallen into rogue hands.
    Espiner is a total disgrace.

    • espiner has always been a rightwing-trout..

      ..he is performing as expected..

      ..i won’t go near it/him..

      ..far too annoying..

    • Bearded Git 8.2

      It is the editors who fail to instruct Espiner to say that National ministers are not fronting that are also at fault.

      • Paul 8.2.1

        Agreed

      • greywarbler 8.2.2

        The appointment team are at fault primarily. They knew what they were choosing. I fear that we will see little change in Guy Le Spinner. But he did apologise the other day for making a second thrust across a comment or explanation, with a repeated question that was probably quite good. It sounded then more of a searching interview for a time, rather than a bombastic rant by some autocratic school principal.

  9. adam 9

    On May 18 Australia had mass protests across the country. Friends of mine (in Perth even) only let me know now with a facebook link – and no I’m not going to promote facebook. The only thing I found in the MSM is this http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/18/tens-of-thousands-across-the-country-march-in-in-protest mmmmmmm. So big ups to our cousins across the ditch. So silly question, did people know about this? One hundred and eighty thousand people hit the streets and the media ignore it – a serious push back – and a serious issue ignored.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      I heard about it only via my Twitter feed…

    • Colonial Viper 9.2

      I heard about it only via my Twitter feed…

      Meanwhile who hear knows that the last few days of Israeli bombardment (including air strikes and naval shelling FFS) has now killed and injured over 400 Palestinian civilians?

      Damn my system is doing double entries…

      • adam 9.2.1

        You heard about the Neo-Nazi killings in the Ukraine CV? Have a link to video – but I don’t think I want to put up – I don’t think it is appropriate to just put up for anyone to view. These are par-military groups aligned and train by the Ukraine army. Most of it is happening in the ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine. I threw up after 20 minutes in, and had to stop watching – I read the accompanying report. A Ukrainian friend I talk to in another forum said it gets worse after I stopped watching. They sat through all the footage, and helped edit it – they are now in hiding. Both side don’t want to it to get out they are targeting civilian’s. So yeah Palestine is a mess, Syria is a Mess and now Ukraine is a bloody mess as well. I think the old saying applies – we are descending to hell in a hand basket…

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1

          We in the west are the most propagandized people on the planet – usually through what we are not shown, what we are not made aware of, and perspectives that we never hear.

          • Populuxe1 9.2.1.1.1

            LOL, as opposed to countries that don’t even have unfettered internet access you mean?

            • McFlock 9.2.1.1.1.1

              aye.

              Every so often on telly they play some recent Chinese movies with subtitles – usually medieval/fantasy, visually impressive with bold colours, casts of thousands, occasionally lots of wire work…

              The subtexts seem to almost exclusively revolve around the desirability of stable society and the hero’s duty to sacrifice their own interests for the greater good. Sometimes I find them downright disturbing.

        • Populuxe1 9.2.1.2

          I suppose you mean the Odessa Trade Union Building fire – which, as I recall, while the Pro-Ukraine protestors were in the wrong for throwing molotov cocktails (you remember, same as the “harmless” ones that Tame Iti and friends were partly charged over in 2007), having, I might add, been fired upon by the Pro-Russian faction first, the deaths among the Pro-Russian mob was largely because the barricated themselves in the top floors of the building and refused to leave.

          This RT bullshit kneejerk calling the Pro-Ukraine element neo-Nazi is moronic. The far-right element is at best a minority of a coalition government (sort of like Internet-Mana will hopefully be following the election) and if they really were being massively funded by some secret US-EU cabal, one would like to think they would have managed a bit more influence than the Agricultural Ministry. It’s actually pretty insultig to suggest that the Pro-Ukraine faction have no legitimate agency after a generation of self-rule. That’s basically ignoring that on the one hand closer relations with the EU opens up the possibility of access to wealthy foreign markets, better employment prospects and increased social liberalisation, whereas closer ties with Russia, is a collapsing economy, and, well, Tsar Putin. You would have to be utterly stupid not to see that most Ukrainians wouldn’t particularly need much arm twisting.

          • adam 9.2.1.2.1

            This is a Ukraine activists filming the action of their own. They are not pro-Russian. And a minority who is killing civilian’s your going to compare with internet/Mana what sort of wanker are you Populuxe1? If you can justify that position in your head – sorry for you. No your proof that, neo-liberalism is so desperate to justify it debasement of humanity it would rather lie, lie, lie, to push it’s agenda. So for you Populuxe1 a few neo-nazis killing a few Russian and Ukrainians civilians’ is OK. As long as Ukraine becomes part of EU and they have western type freedom?

            • Populuxe1 9.2.1.2.1.1

              I see. So the Kalishnikovs just magically materialised out of the downstairs cupboard? Dear me. So tell me, Adam, if you had a choice, where would you rather live? Russia or the EU?

          • bad12 9.2.1.2.2

            So you are suggesting that the ”Pro-Ukraine faction” as you call them did not overthrow a democratically elected Government then Populuxe1,

            This Pro-Ukraine faction then holding a quick ‘election’ which they were in complete control of then makes all this legitimate right???…

            • Populuxe1 9.2.1.2.2.1

              You mean the Pro-Ukraine faction did exactly what you long to do to a corrupt National government, Bas? smiles sweetly

              • Colonial Viper

                Uh I think we’re going to do that on Sept 20, by conducting a constitutionally valid election that follows NZ electoral law precisely.

                So not really the same as the thugs who took over the Ukrainian state machinery.

                • Populuxe1

                  And if National was basically being puppeted by a foreign power behind a populist mandate and ineffectual democracy,with no real change in sight, while Key was stealing vast ammounts of public money to build a privat palace and zoo, you might get a little cross, no? smiling even more sweetly

      • greywarbler 9.2.2

        @ CV See if it works on your pay system.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.2.1

          Haha…shall I now go into a description of how banks create money in the economy by typing in deposits into bank accounts lol

          • greywarbler 9.2.2.1.1

            @colonial viper
            Yees. That would be a great trick for me, just paid my house insurance.

    • Paul 9.3

      NZ media is owned by large Australian corporates.
      They don’t want us to know about this.
      It’ll get in the way of their planned carve up of the country.

        • Populuxe1 9.3.1.1

          If you look closely, you’ll see that in fact the website is divided up into sections. It’s probably a mistake to look for NEWS in the ENTERTAINMENT section.

          • greywarbler 9.3.1.1.1

            @Pop
            But not unknown to find ENTERTAINMENT in the NEWS section. Do you capisce?

      • bad12 9.3.2

        The ‘ownership’ of New Zealand’s media goes far further than Australia, various arms of ‘International Capital’ have large stakes in our media and thus the power to impose ‘editorial control’,

        i suspect, with no actual hard evidence, that John Campbell was smart enough to wrestle from Media Works,(apparently just out of insolvency),a contract that gives Him editorial independence from the other arms of that particular mouth-piece promoting the views of International Capital…

        • Paul 9.3.2.1

          Some background on the real owners of New Zealand’s media.

          The NZ Herald is owned by APN News & Media Limited. APN News & Media Limited.is an Australian and New Zealand media company.

          APN’s top 5 shareholders..the people who pay Mr Murphy and Mr Roughan’s bills and tell them what to write.
          http://apn2013.annual-report.com.au/financial-report/shareholder-information

          National Nominees Limited 23.1%
          Independent News & Media (Australia) Limited 17.6%
          Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 11.7%
          News & Media NZ Limited 11.3%
          JP Morgan Nominees Australia Limited 8.7%

          Some detail on some of these shareholders.

          The Irish company Independent News & Media has a large stake in the company. Two of INM’s largest shareholders are Irish businessman Denis O’Brien and financier Dermot Desmond. Dermot Desmond is an Irish businessman, financier and tax exile. He is estimated to be worth €1.35 billion and is ranked by the Sunday Independent as the seventh-richest person in Ireland.

          Citicorp Nominees Pty Ltd was incorporated in 1970 and is based in Sydney, Australia. Citicorp Nominees Pty Ltd operates as a subsidiary of Citigroup Pty Limited.This is a foreign-owned subsidiary bank of Citigroup. Citigroup Inc. or Citi is an American multinational banking and financial services corporation headquartered in Manhattan, New York City. Citigroup was formed from one of the world’s largest mergers in history by combining the banking giant Citicorp and financial conglomerate Travelers Group in October 1998 (announced on April 7, 1998).Citi is currently the third largest bank holding company in the United States by assets. Its largest shareholders include funds from the Middle East and Singapore.

          JP Morgan Chase & Co. is an American multinational banking and financial services holding company. It is the largest bank in the United States, with total assets of US$2.515 trillion. It is a major provider of financial services, and according to Forbes magazine is the world’s third largest public company based on a composite ranking.

    • Olwyn 9.4

      A great quote from Adam Brandt (Green Party, Victoria) in that Guardian piece, to which every politician counting themselves as on the left should take heed; “It takes guts and courage to stand up to the powerful and wealthy but a coward to take an axe to the young, the sick and the poor,”

      • Murray Olsen 9.4.1

        Very true. It makes me sick when politicians talk about having the courage to take the hard decisions, then make another attack on the poor and disadvantaged. Both NAct and Labour suffer from this. The raising of the retirement age is evidence that Labour can only take easy decisions, as demanded by capital.

  10. this soccer game both sucks and blows..

    ..it’s like that ancient simpsons’ piss-take on soccer..

    • The Al1en 10.1

      It’s called football, and yes, a borefest.

      • Olwyn 10.1.1

        Well, neither team was likely to leave themselves open to Brazil’s fate. But the penalty shoot out was heart-in-mouth stuff.

      • bad12 10.1.2

        Have we reached saturation point, sport being the ‘opium of the masses’ perhaps us that are now bored with it all,(even the the super14 thugby has me yawning these days), are the precursors to a mass OD as far as televised sport goes,

        Televised sport, the perfect replacement for that older opium of religion, allows the masters to control the conversations that occur in the smoko rooms across the nation on a daily basis…

      • Paul 10.1.3

        The only people who can afford to go to these events are the wealthy.

      • David H 10.1.4

        The Cricket is way better.

        • bad12 10.1.4.1

          Couldn’t play the game to save myself, only got interested when the limited overs games started way back,

          Pity they stopped airing most of them on free to air, if there’s one thing that can keep me watching the box its the one day cricket matches…

    • i want germany to win..

      (my son is half-german..and germany played attacking soccer..that’s enough reasons to support them..)

      ..if the final is the crap-shoot of a penalty shoot-out..?

      ..after one of those ‘safe’-games..?

      ..meh..!

      • Clemgeopin 10.2.1

        I think the penalty shoot out system should be abolished the way it is done now and instead, after full time the game should continue in increments of 10 minutes with one less player on each side during each of those 10 minute periods. What do you think?

        The game will look like this :

        First half, 40 minutes, goalie+10 players [Subs allowed as per existing rules]
        Second half, Swap sides, 40 mins, goalie+10 players.

        If draw, then…extra time…
        Period one : 9 minutes, goalie+9 players
        Period Two, Swap sides : 9 minutes, goalie+9 players

        If draw, then…extra time….
        Period one : 8 minutes, goalie+8 players
        Period Two, Swap sides : 8 minutes, goalie+8 players

        If draw, then…extra time….
        Period one : 7 minutes, goalie+7 players
        Period Two, Swap sides : 7 minutes, goalie+7 players

        If draw, then…extra time….
        Period one : 6 minutes, goalie+6 players
        Period Two, Swap sides : 6 minutes, goalie+6 players

        If draw, then…extra time….
        Period one : 5 minutes, goalie+5 players
        Period Two, Swap sides : 5 minutes, goalie+5 players

        If still draw, ONLY THEN do the penalty shoot out.

        What do you think?

        • Olwyn 10.2.1.1

          Someone I know has suggested that both extra time and the penalty shoot out could be replaced by a six-a-side half-hour, which seems to follow a similar line of thought. It would be very dramatic, to see all the defenders apart from the goalies leaving the field, but it would not burden individual players so heavily.

          • Clemgeopin 10.2.1.1.1

            The penalty shoot out as used now is too drastic and too unfair a method of deciding which is a superior side. Often, the penalty save is not much of a skill display but a matter of luck, more often depending upon which side the goalie decides to move to!

        • Clemgeopin 10.2.1.2

          That first paragraph should read :

          ‘I think the penalty shoot out system should be abolished the way it is done now and instead, after full time, the game should continue in reduced time and reduced player numbers as shown below.’

          It would make the game more exciting and fairer, I think. What do you think?

          • Olwyn 10.2.1.2.1

            Yes, your idea too would have its drama, and would allow room for strategies as to the order in which the players would leave the field. I agree that the penalty shoot out is both drastic and unfair, and doesn’t reliably reflect the strengths of the two sides. Not so much in agreement with you about the luck of goalies though. I have seen some dazzling saves in this world cup, and think that goalies are often the unsung heroes.

            • Clemgeopin 10.2.1.2.1.1

              Of course goalies do great. I am not at all putting them down about their abilities during the normal course of the game, except to say that during a penalty shoot out, there is an element of chance/intuition/luck involved as to which way the goalie moves, no matter how good a goalie one is. That is the nature of the penalty shoot out, not a negative reflection on the goalie as such.

              • Olwyn

                OK. I read your piece a bit too hastily, sorry, and ended up making a straw man of what you said.

              • Rodel

                If its a draw at full time I think the goalies should leave and let the game continue without them Shoot outs seem to leave too much to chance.

                • dv

                  How about the penalty shoot out first and then play to see if they should count it?

                  • i like yr idea..dv..

                    ..it wd add an extra frisson to the game..

                    ..and wd end those boring safe-pass-fests..

                  • i like yr idea..dv..

                    ..it wd add an extra frisson to the game..

                    ..and wd end those boring safe-pass-fests..

                  • Clemgeopin

                    There is then the boring possibility of the team with the initial shoot out ‘win’ playing a completely defensive ‘win’-protecting-game to preserve their advantage. For that reason alone I would not support your suggestion.

                    Besides, the shoot out losing team and their goalie in particular would be starting their ‘real’ game in a state of shame, fear, anxiety and be somewhat demoralized to give off their best from then on.

                • Clemgeopin

                  That is an interesting idea worthy of debate and consideration, but I don’t like it too much because a game without a goalie does not seem right,…….(unless the goals are kicked high ‘above’ the goal bar somewhat like that bastardisation of soccer, the game of rugby!..lol..A joke!)

        • Bill 10.2.1.3

          Way back when, corners awarded used to be used to differentiate in the case of a draw. I guess the rationale was that corners indicated more attacking play. Anyway, that was dumped many years back and extra time was introduced. And at the end of extra time, if the game was still drawn, play continued until either side scored a goal. Dunno why they dumped that. Far better than the lottery of penalty kicks.

    • infused 10.3

      Try getting a job then phil, instead of sitting on your ass all day smoking pot.

      • phillip ure 10.3.1

        @ infused..

        ..not sure which comment u r responding to..

        ..but i do have ‘a job’ actually..

        ..every day i aggregate/compile a local/global news-snapshot/grab..

        ..at a website called whoar.co.nz

        (..something that pisses all over anything else in this part of the world in that news-gathering context..)

        ..should i be getting some ‘reward’ from/for doing this..?

        ..is that what you are saying..?

        ..i agree..!..i agree..!

        ..but just sitting on my arse smoking pot all day..?

        ..nah..!..too boring..!..eh..?

        ..been there..dun that..

  11. freedom 11

    test 5

  12. Pete 12

    I was very pleased to notice the self-checkout machine at New World greeting me with a cherry “Kia ora” yesterday. Hopefully it’s a permanent thing rather than just being in anticipation of Maori Language Week.

    • bad12 12.1

      Hmmm, my view is that the machine should have greeted you with ‘tena koe’ and cheerily given you the ‘kia ora’ after having swallowed your hard earned coin…

    • Te Reo Putake 12.2

      And my view is that you should have smashed the machine and demanded to be served by a human. I prefer my money goes in part to keeping my neighbours in employment.

      • Pete 12.2.1

        You do that to ATMs too?

      • Northshoreguynz 12.2.2

        Six jobs lost at a local countdown cos they’ve put in the self check out aisles. Won’t use them.

        • The Al1en 12.2.2.1

          Same, for the same reason, plus prices aren’t reduced to match less operating costs.

          And to queue up to check your own groceries, what a laugh.

          • felix 12.2.2.1.1

            And the “lost” jobs are still there.They’re just being done by customers, for free.

            • karol 12.2.2.1.1.1

              Like jobs servants used to do in middle and upperclass households? With today’s domestic technologies, most of those jobs are now done by household members, or one or two servants in place of the whole team of servants some households use to have.

              • felix

                …and the rest of them are now sitting in supermarkets.

                I get that there are better things people could be doing, but I don’t see anyone offering it.

                • karol

                  And that is the problem we should be working on…. changing the work system.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Do you see any political party anywhere with any proposals to change “the work system”?

                    • karol

                      I said “we”. And by that I don’t mean political parties – or at least not on their own.

                      Politicians will only work to change things if we pressure them to. Trying to pressure businesses to change their system and MOs really won’t end them putting profits before people.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  That, believe it or not, is the governments job. The private sector won’t do it because then unemployment won’t exist to lower wages.

                • We wash our dishes by hand and use a clothes line – many use technology but I’d ask why? Save time? For what? Save money? Nah. It actually is fun to wash and dry the dishes imo you get to practice the tea towel flick for instance, the dryer can race the washer and enjoy putting back an unsatisfactory wash – it is what my brothers and I did growing up and it is what I want to bring into our family. Some may argue that there are better things to be doing but interacting with others in relative happiness is up there in my book – the same for checkout workers too – especially if they have the inclination. Too often nowdays they work longer hours and don’t have the time to take 20 or 30 seconds to say gidday and smile – luckily in the bay we haven’t got to that point yet.

                  • karol

                    Dishwashers are late to the game. I wash dishes by hand, too.

                    Until I was about 15 or 16, my mother used to do the washing for the family without a washing machine. That involved boiling up a copper, scrubbing really dirty stuff like rugby outfits, and turning a handle of the wringer.

                    She also used to make clothes and knit, organise to get the grocery shopping without a car, arrange for food to be fresh without a fridge, cooked food without any of the mod cons many expect to use today. Housework was a very time-consuming and energy-sapping activity. And this was when middleclass families no longer had servants as a general practice.

                    In past times households also coped without flush toilets or water on tap…. technologies keep being developed. Life adapts.

                    What needs to change, is that all people should have a living income, and jobs and enterprises need to more more focused on serving society, rather than generating profits for the (usually already) wealthy.

                • We wash our dishes by hand and use a clothes line – many use technology but I’d ask why? Save time? For what? Save money? Nah. It actually is fun to wash and dry the dishes imo you get to practice the tea towel flick for instance, the dryer can race the washer and enjoy putting back an unsatisfactory wash – it is what my brothers and I did growing up and it is what I want to bring into our family. Some may argue that there are better things to be doing but interacting with others in relative happiness is up there in my book – the same for checkout workers too – especially if they have the inclination. Too often nowdays they work longer hours and don’t have the time to take 20 or 30 seconds to say gidday and smile – luckily in the bay we haven’t got to that point yet.

        • Draco T Bastard 12.2.2.2

          I’m of the opinion that we’ve got better things for those people to do than sit at checkouts. Of course, our privatised system only sees those people as an expense rather than an asset that needs to be supported and cared for and thus won’t do anything to get those people doing those more important jobs.

          • bad12 12.2.2.2.1

            The point i would have eventually got around to in my discussion below Draco, first we need alter the tax system so that everyone is receiving the minimum,(preferably the living), wage,

            After that society can find lots of ‘work’ for people to take up, monitoring the farming industry will become a necessity in the future, just to think of one,

            Workplace safety inspectors by the 100’s to think of another, the list is endless…

          • karol 12.2.2.2.2

            Yep. The problem is the competitive, private business, profit system. A better system of one that results in providing jobs beneficial to society. And we also should be working towards a shorter working week – 6 hours per day/5 days a week per person, as a first goal for fulltime workers.

      • bad12 12.2.3

        And you TRP have ‘smashed’ how many of these machines so far???, smashing said machnes would seem to be the perfect ‘make-work’ scheme for the plods, the judicial system, and the 1000’s of lazy sods currently employed as key janglers in the prison system,

        Far from smashing the machines, would you not be better off advocating for ‘true equality’ in the vein of paying all those reliant upon the benefit system the ‘living wage’…

        • Te Reo Putake 12.2.3.1

          “Far from smashing the machines, would you not be better off advocating for ‘true equality’ in the vein of paying all those reliant upon the benefit system the ‘living wage’…”

          Well, that made me laugh, Bad. Well done.

          • bad12 12.2.3.1.1

            What’s the cause of the laughter TRP, modernization of people bases systems such as the check-out operation of a supermarket are always going to leave a lag between old jobs and new jobs being created,

            Your laughter instead of an actual answer to the question is suggestive of you having no belief in equality what-so-ever,

            You would prefer to strike a ‘pose’ as evidenced by your absurd ”smash the machines” than pay the workers made redundant a living wage,

            Arnie came across as the brainless wonder in the series of movies, your comments are beginning to portray the same…

            • Te Reo Putake 12.2.3.1.1.1

              Nah, the laughter was at your naivety. How about we get the living wage for workers first, eh? Btw, what do you think the word ‘wage’ implies?

              • bad12

                Thanks for that TPR, it reads like the forward to ”The idiots guide to structural poverty”,

                i could ask you the same about the word poverty TRP, while you continue on your blind little tiptoe down the path of ”work will set you free” you are simply a supporter and applauder of the current situation of structural poverty,

                With Labour as the lead member of a coalition we will never have across the board a living wage for all workers, why don’t you try honesty for once,

                What are the unemployed other than workers kept deliberately out of work…

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Good of you to narrow your original claim down to just the unemployed. Hope you didn’t get any splinters in your fingers as you moved the goalposts.

                  • bad12

                    Good of you to not make a relevant point in the debate Arnie, what the hell is that supposed to mean…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      You originally wanted all beneficiaries to get the living wage. Now you’re down to just the unemployed. Geddit, now?

                    • bad12

                      Thank you TRP, in a word, as deserving of it as that ‘wing-nut’ below, Bullshit,

                      i have at this time of night better things to do with my time than play either Tic Tac Toe or dance on the head of a pin with one of the Standards resident experts in both forms,

                      Your whole focus of debate is to continually run away from what you publish spreading bullshit as you go…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      I’m not running away from anything, Bad, but feel free to scarper if you must. I’m sure nobody will feel any less of you for bottling out of your own lost argument.

                • Naki man

                  “What are the unemployed other than workers kept deliberately out of work”

                  No government wants to have unemployed people. Everyone I know that wants to work finds a job within a few months.

                  • bad12

                    One word Nakahi-man, Bullshit….(its all your worth)…

                  • McFlock

                    So your friends wanted to be unemployed for weeks upon weeks upon weeks?
                    Nobody I know wants to be unemployed, period.

                    • Naki man

                      Don’t be simple McFlock I said everyone I know that wants to work finds a job within a few months. People do loose their jobs from time to time often through no fault of their own. Yes my friends and many others who want to work all found jobs within a few months. A few people that are not friends of mine and don’t want to work are as you would expect still unemployed.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Nakiman, how many people who aren’t your friends do your curtains twitch for?

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      you missed the point – if everyone got work they wanted, none of your friends would be unemployed for weeks, let alone months. Unless your friends wanted to loaf around dong nothing for months on end, collecting the dole. Mybe they were familiar enough with you to pretend they were looking and just couldn’t find anything.

                      They still would have been in the tens of thousands of unemployed that quarter.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      you missed the point – if everyone got work they wanted, none of your friends would be unemployed for weeks, let alone months. Unless your friends wanted to loaf around dong nothing for months on end, collecting the dole. Mybe they were familiar enough with you to pretend they were looking and just couldn’t find anything.

                      They still would have been in the tens of thousands of unemployed that quarter.

                    • felix

                      McFlock, you’re asking a tory to factor time into an equation. You know they can’t.

                      People are this or that, and things are this or that, and that’s all there is to this.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Our economy is based on having a permanent 5-7% unemployed. Any more leads to riots, any less leads to pay rises.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      +1

                      That’s it exactly and why the rich have been getting all the gains from increased productivity for the last thirty years. Why we have increasing inequality.

                    • Naki man

                      “Our economy is based on having a permanent 5-7% unemployed. Any more leads to riots, any less leads to pay rises.”

                      I have been an employer in the past and when the business grew I needed more staff, I approached staff from another company and offered them more money than they were getting. It was no problem to pay good staff a premium wage, many companies do it. That might not apply to unskilled staff who tend to get replaced by machines.

                    • McFlock

                      in the past?
                      when was that – about ten years ago?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Naki man was talking about his ethics in poaching staff from another company, who apparently willingly quit to go work for an arsehole for an extra $1/hr

      • halfcrown 12.2.4

        Well said TRP. When we go to the supermarket and some nice lady “invites” us to use these machines we always refuse., and I always say to them “I will not use that thing as I am trying to preserve a rare thing called your employment.”(a bit of a Tollpuddle martyr in me”)
        The sad bit is, they really don’t get the point I am trying to make.

        • bad12 12.2.4.1

          ”The sad bit is, they really don’t get the point I am trying to make”, said the condescending middle class to the poor uneducated peasants,

          How the fuck would you know if they get the point or not, the people employed there are ‘watched’, they’re paid to do exactly what they do, not engage in bagging their employers to any dick that wanders in who for all they know might be the managers cousin…

        • marty mars 12.2.4.2

          True halfcrown, me too – I did use the airport one the other day although i didn’t have a bag or my code number – the machine and lovely person helping was able to find my code from my licence which was a little freaky. The one that also gets me is laptops – I remember when they came in oh the extra free time we would all have – now they are used at night, on weekends, at the beach, on the plane! Biggest have those laptops – just increased work not decreased it lol.

          • karol 12.2.4.2.1

            I’m more in agreement with bad. I use the self serve checkout machines – and am usually one who keeps the supervisor busy – especially at pak n save where it’s necessary to get a staff member approval to use your own bag. In any Auckland supermarket we need to ask a staff member, at both self-service and operator checkouts. to provide us with council rubbish bags – we aren’t allowed to get them off shelves ourselves.

            The machines free up humans to do other work. Remember, barcode scanners at checkouts, saved operators time, meaning less staff needed, and ultimately, less customers for small independent supermarkets. That’s the way with technological change. If it means fewer jobs, then we need to focus more on a living wage for all, and getting people doing jobs that can be most easily done by humans- jobs that are useful and valuable to society.

            Also, I’ve never really seen more/longer queues at self-checkouts than operator checkouts. Often the self-checkout moves more quickly because there are several machines for one queue.

            • Draco T Bastard 12.2.4.2.1.1

              especially at pak n save where it’s necessary to get a staff member approval to use your own bag.

              Never had that happen to me.

              In any Auckland supermarket we need to ask a staff member, at both self-service and operator checkouts. to provide us with council rubbish bags – we aren’t allowed to get them off shelves ourselves.

              That really pisses me off but I suppose that an increasing number of people were stealing the in this rockstar economy where only the rich get better off.

              and getting people doing jobs that can be most easily done by humans- jobs that are useful and valuable to society.

              Well, getting the people freed up from doing jobs that machines can do to doing jobs that machines can’t. Jobs such as R&D, art, health care etc.

              • karol

                pak n sav at Henderson – I think it’s because they charge you for using their plastic bags.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Ah, you’r using standard plastic bags whereas I use a ‘reusable’ shopping bag.

                  • Where I live we have one supermarket and no self serve option but I’ve lived in the cities and i can pack my own reusable bag or use bags/boxes when necessary but i refuse to put the stuff through myself – I just cannot support that practice it really seems obviously like providing evidence why a job isn’t needed when I really think it is needed and less dropping of humans for profit is what is not needed.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The profit motive is the problem, not the destruction of worthless jobs.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The profit motive is the problem, not the destruction of worthless jobs.

                    • Yes exactly and the jobs are also not worthless imo not even slightly.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Not exactly worthless but not worth a hell of a lot and there really is more important work that needs doing.

                      It’s actually Real Economics rather than the delusional monetary BS we normally hear about. We free up people from some work so that they can do other work that the society finds worthwhile. It’s how I know that NZ can afford a space program with tens of thousands of people involved in it.

                    • I think the person should find the work worthwhile not just that society considers it worthwhile – otherwise we are back at the same point we are today. ‘Worthwhile’ is pretty subjective too and more important things to do – well important to whom. Anyway apart from the space race i agree with you mostly – I’d get people planting and growing food everywhere so others can eat it for free that is important and worthwhile imo.

            • bad12 12.2.4.2.1.2

              i have to ask each time for rolly papers, and, have to admit i, after an initial ”fucking machines” response, quite enjoy the do it yourself nature of checking out my weekly shopping), specially at Pak’n’Slave where i used to end up having to bag it myself anyway,

              Lolz i haven’t used Council rubbish bags for years, between my recycle bin and my garden, along with putting the shopping bags to a second use by,(deleted), i have no need of them,

              The moot, often aired here at the Standard, and by plenty of politicians, of inequality is pretty much kneecapped by the majority of those, in my opinion, discussing this not doing so from the position of wanting real equality,

              It would seem, and again this is my opinion, that the majority either want slightly less inequality, or, simply play lip service to such an ideal…

              • karol

                I got use to bagging my own groceries in England – it was the way things were done there in the 70s-90s, in the pre-barcode days. When I came back here, at first I got quite irritated at the quaint way supermarkets preferred to bag my shopping for me, – and irritated that, until the last couple of years, they were resistant to me bringing my own re-cycled shopping bags.

                It saves me time at the checkout to bag it myself, and I have my own ways of packing the bags – designed to making the unpacking and putting away process easier at the other end.

        • Rodel 12.2.4.3

          Same with libraries

    • srylands 13.1

      Yes it is. One of the rare occasions Idiot/Savant gets it so right.

    • mickysavage 13.2

      It is a beat up. Here is the official text from the policy:

      “Labour will allow the Law Commission to complete its review on alternative trial mechanisms, including the establishment of a specialist sexual violence court and consider reforms that provide real justice to survivors while protecting the right to be presumed innocent, including: cross examination rules, alternative trial processes, establishment of sexual violence support, specialist training including on the dynamics of violence, support services during justice processes, and changes to the definition of consent.”

      IS is relying on a press release. The language is less elegant. The official text of the policy is what should be referred to and relied on.

      • srylands 13.2.1

        He is not relying on a press release. This is what Andrew Little said. I heard it:

        “”The Crown has to prove more than just sex; the issue of consent has to be raised by the Crown, they have to prove the identity of the offender. They would have to bear that burden of proof before a switch to the defence to prove consent,” Mr Little said.”

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289979

        “before a switch to the defence to prove consent”. He was very clear.

        • phillip ure 13.2.1.1

          this is the worrying part in yr quote..m.s..

          ‘..alternative trial processes..’

          ..w.t.f. does that mean exactly..?

          ..and switching the burden of proof to the accused..

          ..is a terrifying precedent to set…

          • Te Reo Putake 13.2.1.1.1

            It’s not a precedent at all, Phil. The proposal is to use an inquisitive process (ie establish the agreed facts). That’s the way it’s done in a lot of countries already, France for one.

            • phillip ure 13.2.1.1.1.1

              i have no problems with the ‘inquisitive process’..

              ..reversal of burden of proof is entirely different from that..

          • Naki man 13.2.1.1.2

            I agree, how is it that the left fear the GCSB and police surveillance and are quite happy to be guilty of rape until they are proven innocent. Is this why Cunners apologised for being a man.

          • NZ Femme 13.2.1.1.3

            I’ve been following this fairly closely. And I have to say, I think Little is doing a crappy job of speaking to the discussions/work/research that culminated in the Law Commissions inquiry, subsequently brushed aside by Collins.

            A bit of background: in 2007, the Commission of Enquiry into Police Conduct Report by Margaret Bazley was released. Undertaken after the Louise Nicholas debacle, it led to a further investigation by the Law Commission into evidential law.

            http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/2008/06/Publication_136_405_Disclosure_of_Previous_Convictions_Report_103_WEB.pdf

            Following recommendations within that report, the Government set up a “Taskforce for Action on Sexual Violence”. Different specialist groups and Government Departments researched specific areas, resulting in a number of suggestions and recommendations, including that the Law Commission undertake an inquiry into alternative trial processes.

            http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/supporting-victims/sexual-violence/improvements#23

            It’s important I think, to point out that the submission made during the Taskforce enquiry to reverse the burden of proof was not proposed, and was not further investigated by the following Law Commission enquiry.

            ” 94. This has not been proposed as an option because a review of the burden of proof would raise major Bill of Rights concerns, such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.” (from the above link)

            Below is a link to the background and scope of the Law Commission’s enquiry into alternative trial procedures, and information on inquisitorial as opposed to adverserial trial procedures. It was to Simon Powers credit that the work begun years earlier, was continued under his watch in 2010. He was of the belief that an inquisatorial trial model would be more effective in sexual abuse cases, and possibly DV cases as well. (the jury is still out on that – the conviction rates are similar for both styles worldwide – but it is thought that the process is less brutal for victims/survivors)

            http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/content/section-1-introduction

            The following link contains submissions and feedback to the above:

            http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/2012/12/alternative_trial_and_pre-trial_processes_submissions_summary.pdf

        • Draco T Bastard 13.2.1.2

          The written policy is the correct one. Humans are error prone and tend to say the wrong thing while in interviews while meaning what the written policy says.

  13. Naki man 14

    Little Andrew is going to have innocent men in prison if he has things his way.

    • McFlock 14.1

      So do you currently stick your penis in women when you’re not objectively certain (beyond reasonable doubt) that consent has been granted?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.1

        Now he’s concerned about innocent people going to prison.

      • Naki man 14.1.2

        I am concerned that men could be an easy target. Its one persons word against another. If any women wanted to set up their ex for revenge or custody or any other reason it would be easy.
        The reversal of the burden of proof is batshit crazy.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.2.1

          Soft on rapists. If you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to fear.

        • Weepu's beard 14.1.2.2

          A bit of free advice, Naki man – when she says no, don’t do it. If you stick to this rule, you will be fine.

        • NZ Femme 14.1.2.3

          “The reversal of the burden of proof is batshit crazy.”

          It’s not on the agenda, Little’s incorrect understanding of the actual issues notwithstanding. See above.

        • McFlock 14.1.2.4

          so you prefer women to be the “easy target” of one person’s word against another (with a rough rate of a quarter of all women), as opposed to a false reporting rate of the minority of cases that even get reported to the police.

          Moot point, because the tory hype isn’t what Labour’spolicy is, but interesting where you want the suffering of innocents to lie.

  14. Philj 15

    xox
    National Radio is on the skids. Going the way of TVNZ. The government have frozen funding and bought in yes men and women on the board to dumb it down. Nothing direct, just mates and toadies. Sad and disturbing.

  15. Philj 16

    xox
    Attended an informative talk by Ecologist Mike Joy, who is currently on a national tour. I recommend it to Kiwis concerned about our water quality, natural environment and democracy. You can see the video from the Royal Society of NZ website, when get it on line. Shocking, disturbing and disgraceful.

  16. Morrissey 17

    Graham Bell, Wild Bull of the Whump-Ass, continues to run amok
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 1 July 2014

    Jim Mora, Graham Bell, Denise L’Estrange-Corbet, Zara Potts

    PART TWO OF TWO

    After the four o’clock news, not much happens for a long time. There are the interminable reintroductions of each Panelist, which often mean it’s well after 4:15 before the first topic of the day is discussed. Today there’s not a lot to talk about—actually, there is a lot to talk about, but the producers have steered well away from anything substantial. There is, however, some superficial chat about depression….

    JIM MORA: Uh, the Black Dog Project—there’s been reportage of this in Slate magaz—
    GRAHAM BELL: That reminds me. What’s black and looks good on a criminal? A Doberman. Ho ho ho ho ho!
    MORA: Graham that’s a terrible joke! I REFUSE to laugh at it.

    The show drifts on, aimlessly and witlessly, until the 4:30 news. Then it’s time for the “Soapbox” segment. Remember, this is where the guests are expected to talk about something they have spent some time thinking about. Listeners might be forgiven, therefore, to expect something thoughtful, something serious, something interesting….

    MORA: Denise L’Estrange-Corbet, what have you been thinking about?
    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Well I went to a restaurant the other night, and I was just so ANNOYED by all the people who were texting non-stop! I’m just wondering: do people not TALK any more? ….[continues ranting about texting for several minutes]….

    To stop her, Mora interrupts and reads out some texts and emails about various frivolities raised during the preshow. Then it’s on to the thoughts of Dixon of Dock Green….

    MORA: Okay, Graham Bell, what’s been on YOUR mind?
    GRAHAM BELL: I want to talk about Lucan Battison and his hair. The Battisons and the school should be ashamed of themselves. …That over-inflated CODSWALLOP that his lawyer spouted in court, comparing this case to Kate Sheppard and Martin Luther King. The only winners were the lawyers! The only LOSER is the kid himself. No employer will take him on. He’s the heir apparent to John Minto!
    MORA: [nervously] A lot of people think “good on him.”
    GRAHAM BELL: [snarling] I doubt it. Perhaps the Internet Mana Party can employ him! It’s CRAZY!
    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Ridiculous! Ridiculous!
    MORA: He said he was arguing for a principle.
    GRAHAM BELL: R-r-r-r-r-rubbish! Codswallop!

    ….[Extended awkward silence]….

    MORA: Graham Bell and Denise L’Estrange-Corbet on the Panel! It’s ten minutes to five. I want to talk about Rolf Harris.
    GRAHAM BELL: Rolf Harris. I’ve always thought he was odd. REALLY odd!
    MORA: Really?
    GRAHAM BELL: Wobbling a saw and singing along with it. He’s a little bit unusual.
    MORA: Ummm… Stripped of his BAFTA and his CBE.
    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Good! Lock him up and throw away the key! He deserves NOTHING! He deserves NO SYMPATHY at all!
    MORA: We’re joined now by Dr. Ian Lambie from Auckland University.
    DR. IAN LAMBIE: Good afternoon Jim and listeners.
    MORA: Uh, it’s well known that celebrities are ego-driven and narcissistic. Why do people like this think they can get away with it? Why do they think they have this kind of invincibility?
    DR. IAN LAMBIE: They have a lot of money, a lot of power, a lot of prestige. Awards from the Queen. It takes an enormous amount of courage to speak out.
    GRAHAM BELL: It’s a hallmark of many sexual offenders that they would select their victims. Some sex offenders are capable of thinking right through to the trial.
    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: They select them very carefully.
    MORA: There’s that level of malign strategy. The other thing is, Ian, that the times have been on trial haven’t they, the sixties and seventies, with Jimmy Savile, haven’t they. The times have been categorized and besmirched….
    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: I mean it surrounded Michael Jackson for years didn’t it. All sorts of different people coming forward and he’d just pay them off. And maybe people do think that if people come forward they’re just after the money.
    MORA: Thanks Ian. Actually, people in the seventies were just as moral as they are now.
    GRAHAM BELL: Oh absolutely.
    MORA: I mean, the times have been categorized and besmirched….

    Somewhere during this borefest, Graham Bell had a go at smearing the dissident journalist Julian Assange. As always, Mora said nothing to contradict him. If somebody can track down his gouty rant, I would appreciate you transcribing it. I just can’t bear to wade through any more of it.

    PART ONE…. /open-mike-04072014/#comment-844334

    • if bell were doing a comedy-routine..it could be (kinda) funny..in a reactionary-clown piss-take sorta way..

      ..but he isn’t..and it isn’t..

      ..but brilliant casting..!

      ..bell and corbet together…!..(i call her by her birth name..corbett..pre-affectation..)

      ..those two wd be neck and neck for thickest-panel-panellist-award..

      ..an antipodean-take on dumb and dumber…

      (mora was grasping/struggling with their concerted-inanities..there was seperate humour to be had from that..)

      ..(one of the ‘circles of hell’..?..a dinner party lasting forever..with bell/corbet..and a brace of those other ignorant fuckwits they have on that panel..

      ..that obese beer-pusher..?..and all those other rightwing-arsewipes they trot out there too..?

      ..(shudder..!..)

      • Morrissey 17.1.1

        The great pity, Phillip, is that when Bell is contradicted, he always folds like a pack of cards. Gordon Campbell gave him an on-air spanking a few years ago….

        Open mike 12/04/2013

    • dimebag russell 17.2

      bell has stockholm syndrome.
      he has been hanging round low lifes for so long now that he thinks like them.
      i.e. fantasies of omnipotence and contempt for the rule of law.

  17. emergency mike 18

    Oh yes that’s what our society needs – undercover cops hanging out in bars. Nothing to hide nothing to fear…

    • Tiger Mountain 18.1

      Plods have long had a bit of a fetish about licensed premises, perhaps transference of what goes on in their home base watering holes.

      Team Policing in the 80s/90s broke laws and heads with gay abandon and not just in ‘booze barns’ either. Keep the coppers out of law abiding citizens socialising please.

      • phillip ure 18.1.1

        in the seventies i saw some spectacular police/patrons brawls in ‘the snake-pit’?..

        ..a bar downstairs in a hotel down the bottom of queen st..

        ..it was the favoured watering hole of seamen/ship-girls/prostitutes..and the various denizens of aucklands underworld at that time..

        ..it was kinda ‘rough’..

        ..and chairs/jugs of beer were often employed as a weapon of choice..

        • Te Reo Putake 18.1.1.1

          Top pub, Phil, if it’s the one I’m thinking of. Used to be a compulsory stop for my fellow workers after union stopwork meetings. Sometimes before them, too! I remember seeing a photo behind the bar of Jimmy Carter knocking back a beer there when he was here on a visit.

          • Tiger Mountain 18.1.1.1.1

            Carter must have done a pub crawl while here then TRP! because his photo was on the wall in the early opener (8am, name escapes me, had a back entrance through to bus depot) round the corner from Queen St on Quay St just down from the Seafarer’s union office.

            Snake Pit was in the basement of the South Pacific Hotel near the old Post Office and where Britomart is now. Was rough, but fights were not compulsory.

            • Te Reo Putake 18.1.1.1.1.1

              No, right you are. It was the early opener I was thinking of, I’ll be up all night trying to remember its name!

            • felix 18.1.1.1.1.2

              The early-opener with the back-entrance through to the bus depot was The Schooner.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Yep, that’s the one, felix. I also remember the Britomart being a good spot for a quiet one, but the Schooner had a vibe all of its own. The Prince Arthur was my favourite downtown drinker, though. A den of inequity; the rooms upstairs could tell a tale or two.

              • Tiger Mountain

                and… felix takes tonites pub spotter award

            • KJT 18.1.1.1.1.3

              The pub on Tatooine in Star Wars.

              Looked exactly like a sailors pub.

              Even the Aliens looked familiar.

              Have to admit it was “plod”, in the form of the wharf police, that saved us when our tiny Welsh engineer just had to pick a fight with the biggest Fijian in the bar.

              • Colonial Viper

                Ah yes the Mos Eisley space port Cantina

              • RedLogix

                tiny Welsh engineer just had to pick a fight with the biggest Fijian in the bar.

                Amazing what beer does to some people. A few years back four of us walked into a Courtenay Place bar and some wee short -arse started to pick one with us within seconds of getting there.

                Now I was twice his size and the other three with me made me look weedy. We just couldn’t believe he was doing this. His mates showed no sign of backing him. It was like brushing a humping dog off your leg to get rid of him.

                Another very interesting excursion into the human/lizard brain.

        • joe90 18.1.1.2

          Sounds like the South Pacific, as 17 year olds new to the big smoke it didn’t take us long to master the art of staying out of trouble – scarper for the corner to avoid the big boys fights, duck, preserve your drink at all costs and at the first inkling of the arrival of a team policing unit decamp with haste.

          • joe90 18.1.1.2.1

            The South Pacific.

          • phillip ure 18.1.1.2.2

            i enjoyed the healthy disregard for authority..

            ..that was so prevalent..

            ..(and then there was the durban-poison..off the straat-boats..

            ..now that was pot that wd cause yr ears to curl…

            ..and pot that shows claims that modern pot is much stronger than pot of yore..

            ..to be complete and utter bullshit..)

            • greywarbler 18.1.1.2.3.1

              @joe90 6.17pm
              I note the tram lines and overhead wires, and remember at the end of a route waiting on the slatted seats inside the tram while the driver climbed down to the street, hauled down one pole, fastened it, then raised the pole at the other end, climbed into the forward cabin and we were off again. A very different approach to public transport, visible, reliable and fairly frequent.

              I saw a car like the small one in the middle of the photo the other day. People restore them lovingly.

              • Anne

                You might be right greywarbler, but I took the photo to be the bottom of Queen St, Auckland, and the overhead wires were the trolley bus wires. I remember they didn’t remove the tram-lines for a long time after the replacement trolleys. Those drivers were much fitter than today’s bus drivers. It was impossible to make a trip into the city from the suburbs and back again without the wire contraption attached to the bus roof coming off the overhead wires usually several times a trip. The driver would jump out of the bus…run around to the front where he (always a he) would re-attach it then back round… up the stairs into his seat and off we’d go again. The game was to predict exactly where it would next happen. Kept us endlessly amused.

                • greywarbler

                  @Anne7.24
                  Thanks for that shared memory. I thought of trolley buses first and then thought that no they must have been trams, wrongly. It was the trams I particularly remembered, they were fun.

                  I enjoyed some years ago riding in the Melbourne ones when I was living there. And I did ride on John Britten’s ones in Chch and they have some part going again there I think. Going up the Kelburn cablecar in Wellington is a little like the old tram experience.

                  Nowadays I have decided to go regularly to talk to the afficionados at the train restoration and trundle trip down at the local park. These are good guys and women who have put in hours and done wonders with the old skills and knowledge. There is a charm about them and nostalgia that is a different feeling than the one I get while looking at the tall metal vehicles on big tyres that dwarf me which are the peculiar fashion in the dying days of personal vehicles.

  18. Jenny 19

    Climate voter is nudging close to 20,000 supporters after only three weeks.

    Last count: 19,936>/b>

    Make sure you add your name to the list.

    http://www.climatevoter.org.nz/

  19. Puckish Rogue 20

    Just when Nationals on the ropes someone from the left comes along and saves them:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10252967/Harawira-U-turn-in-diplomat-sex-case

    Thank goodness you can always rely on a left-wing brain explosion

    • Pete 20.1

      I think it shows character when a politician admits a mistake, rather than doubling down or trying to let it slide. However, it should have been apparent to Harawira last week that cases alleging attempted rapes are big deals and trying to diminish the impact of such crimes is not a good thing.

    • McFlock 20.2

      So national was on the ropes then?
      Good to know.

    • McFlock 20.3

      So national was on the ropes then?
      Good to know.

  20. lprent 21

    Ok the site is fixed for the moment. It appears to have been a excessively complex set of SQL queries for the RSS Feeds on the mid-right of the site displaying information about posts from other sites. It appears to have been setting up a mutex deadlock condition under some conditions, triggered by one of the feeds from a union site.

    Quite how that deadlock was triggered I still don’t know for sure. I’m going to have a look at the code over the weekend.

    For the moment I have fixed it with much tighter timeouts on mutexes, shortening the idle timeouts on the connections to the database, and removing all of the union feeds until I figure out exactly which one was the issue.

    What it did bring home to me was how many queries were hitting that database. Normal day to day operation was causing a several thousand queries a second all day – after many of them were forestalled by cached database results. So there is clearly some optimization that I’m going to have to put into some of the queries performed by some of the plugin code.

    Sorry for having to fix this on the live site. However I couldn’t see the error happening at all on the test site, even after I piped the queries to it from the live site.

    • Draco T Bastard 21.1

      Chrome occasionally reports that it receives no data from the site prompting a reload.

  21. greywarbler 22

    Alex from the daily telegraph decrying the unfortunate way that kinder, more socially responsible rules in the financial world don’t apply to all.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/

    If I can add – this is a world cup quiz tha tells you the answers easy peasy
    http://www.alexcartoon.co.uk/worldcupquiz.html

  22. Morrissey 23

    The Panel is worse, more heartless and stupid than ever
    Radio NZ National, Thursday 10 July 2014
    Jim Mora, Ali Jones, Ellen Read, Julie Moffett

    JULIE MOFFETT: The Israelis have an app. that predicts incoming rockets!
    ALI JONES: It’s AMAZING what you can do with a smart-phone now!

    Judging by the assenting grunts of the others, not one of them saw anything bizarre about that. If these people had been on a vacuous radio chat show sixty years ago, no doubt they would have been impressed by measures taken by the concerned citizens of the Deep South to protect themselves from the Negro menace.

    The depravity continued….

    JULIE MOFFETT: Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia is removing the Confederate flag from its campus. I’m a bit mixed about that.
    JIM MORA: It’s historical, surely. It’s not as though they’re espousing the beliefs of the Confederacy.
    ELLEN READ: I’d keep it.
    MORA: What do you think, Ali?
    ALI JONES: I think I’d keep it.

    I sent Jim a quick email before 4 o’clock…..

    It’s the Palestinians that need the app that predicts rocket attacks

    Dear Jim,

    Surely it’s the Palestinian victims of Israel’s illegal attacks that need the app that predicts rocket attacks. So far, in the latest escalation of violence, Israel has killed more than fifty Palestinians—most of them civilians.

    Not one Israeli has been killed or even injured.

    Yet you and your Panelists pretend that it’s the Israelis that need this app.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    I’m pleased to announce that many others did too. He even read one remonstration out on air.

    • Te Reo Putake 23.1

      “JULIE MOFFETT: The Israelis have an app. that predicts incoming rockets!
      ALI JONES: It’s AMAZING what you can do with a smart-phone now!

      Judging by the assenting grunts of the others, not one of them saw anything bizarre about that.”

      Not actually what Moffat said and not actually what the Yo app does. But other than that, up to your usual standards of accuracy, Moz.

      • Morrissey 23.1.1

        Not actually what Moffat said…

        I dashed it down in disbelieving fury. I no doubt missed a few words here and there, but I got her vacant and amoral tone exactly right. Clearly I wasn’t the only listener to be upset by the callousness and the deliberate ignorance displayed by Moffett, Mora and the other two.

        ….and not actually what the Yo app does.

        So what DOES it do? And more to the point: why were they pretending that Israelis need any app. to guard against rockets?

        But other than that, up to your usual standards of accuracy, Moz.

        It was accurate, if not word-perfect. Please provide a 100 per cent transcript to show if I have somehow misconstrued their brutal indifference to the deaths of scores of Palestinians.

      • Morrissey 23.1.2

        Not actually what Moffat said…

        I dashed it down in disbelieving fury. I no doubt missed a few words here and there, but I got her vacant and amoral tone exactly right. Clearly I wasn’t the only listener to be upset by the callousness and the deliberate ignorance displayed by Moffett, Mora and the other two.

        ….and not actually what the Yo app does.

        So what DOES it do? And more to the point: why were they pretending that Israelis need any app. to guard against rockets?

        But other than that, up to your usual standards of accuracy, Moz.

        It was accurate, if not word-perfect. Please provide a 100 per cent transcript to show if I have somehow misconstrued their brutal indifference to the deaths of scores of Palestinians.

      • Morrissey 23.1.3

        Not actually what Moffat said…

        I dashed it down in disbelieving fury. I no doubt missed a few words here and there, but I got her vacant and amoral tone exactly right. Clearly I wasn’t the only listener to be upset by the callousness and the deliberate ignorance displayed by Moffett, Mora and the other two.

        ….and not actually what the Yo app does.

        So what DOES it do? And more to the point: why were they pretending that Israelis need any app. to guard against rockets?

        But other than that, up to your usual standards of accuracy, Moz.

        It was accurate, if not word-perfect. Please provide a 100 per cent transcript to show if I have somehow misconstrued their brutal indifference to the deaths of scores of Palestinians.

    • Rodel 23.2

      No I like Jim’s programme except when he has Farrar on and then I switch off. Otherwise its light, interesting educational entertainment.

      • Morrissey 23.2.1

        No I like Jim’s programme except when he has Farrar on and then I switch off.

        You are suggesting Farrar is worse than Stephen Franks, Neil Miller, Nevil Breivik Gibson, Julia Heartless Moore, Richard Griffin, Barry Corbett or any of the other mindlessly reflexive right wing drips that dominate this programme?

        Otherwise its light, interesting educational entertainment.

        Yes it’s certainly light.

        • Rodel 23.2.1.1

          1.What I’m saying is not what you are saying I’m suggesting.
          2. So? light =sinful?

          • McFlock 23.2.1.1.1

            the guy compares a half-arsed local tory propagandist with a hands-on mass murderer.
            That answer point 2 for you?

            • Morrissey 23.2.1.1.1.1

              the guy compares a half-arsed local tory propagandist with a hands-on mass murderer

              It was not me but another writer who pointed out the similarity of Nevil Gibson’s and Anders Breivik’s thinking. It was after an insane editorial by Gibson in the NBR a couple of years ago, in which he asserted that all—i.e., every single one—of the world’s terrorists were Muslims. Even the Bush/Blair axis at its most dishonest never actually stated such an absurd lie. But Anders Breivik did. And so did Nevil Gibson.

              Now I guess you will try to prove that Gibson’s words should not be held against him.

              That answer point 2 for you?

              Nothing wrong with light. There’s everything wrong with pretending you’re serious and then making a (feeble) joke out of nearly everything. For instance: any moral person would find something wrong with the idea of hooting with laughter at someone taking refuge from a vicious state vengeance campaign. But on The Panel it’s a source of never-ending hilarity….

              Open mike 14/06/2013

              Open mike 26/06/2013

              Open mike 17/08/2012

              • Te Reo Putake

                “It was after an insane editorial by Gibson in the NBR a couple of years ago, in which he asserted that all—i.e., every single one—of the world’s terrorists were Muslims.”

                Cite, Moz? Gibson may be regularly offensive, but he’s not an idiot. I’m picking the only person to have made that claim is actually you. Looking forward to being proven wrong, of course.

                • Morrissey

                  Cite, Moz?

                  I’ve spent the last hour trawling through old NBR editorials by the great man, but I still haven’t found the one that started it all. I remember it had a few comments on it, with the most trenchant being the one comparing his rabid views to Breivik’s. I’ll track it down for you, though, and post it up as soon as I locate it.

                  Gibson may be regularly offensive, but he’s not an idiot.

                  I didn’t say he was an idiot. The old Maoist is irrational and dishonest, and possibly insane. But you’re right—he’s not an idiot, though he obviously treats the rest of us like we are.

                  I’m picking the only person to have made that claim is actually you.

                  You are wrong. I picked up on the Breivik comparison from a disgusted commenter on the NBR blog.

                  Looking forward to being proven wrong, of course.

                  You are wrong, and you know it.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Cheers, Moz, I know you won’t let me down!

                    I wasn’t saying that you claimed he was an idiot. Rather that he’d be an idiot if he said it. And the ‘claim’ isn’t the Breivek comparison it’s the ‘all terrorists are muslim’. So far, it appears you’re the one saying that, not Gibson.

                    Anyhoo, good luck finding the non-existent quote. You could save some time by just admitting you exaggerated.

                    I’m picking the actual line you’ve distorted is this:

                    “But not all deaths in conflict are equal. Much of the world’s violence emanates from a single source – jihadist followers of the Islamic religion – and rarely does a news bulletin (at least on the BBC) pass without a bombing or people being killed somewhere in the name of martyrdom.”

                    http://m.nbr.co.nz/opinion/when-war-hero-not-one

                    • Morrissey

                      I wasn’t saying that you claimed he was an idiot. Rather that he’d be an idiot if he said it.

                      He WROTE it in an “editorial” for his crummy business paper.

                      And the ‘claim’ isn’t the Breivek comparison it’s the ‘all terrorists are muslim’. So far, it appears you’re the one saying that, not Gibson.

                      No, he wrote it. Another reader picked him up on it, and compared him directly to Breivik. The comparison was apt, and I have used it ever since.

                      Your flippant, disrespectful attitude and your taunting does you no credit, Te Reo. Gibson said what I said he did; I did not make it up, and I did not distort anything.

                      I will find that moronic Breivikian editorial—unlike you, I do care about getting things right—and put it on this site. Not that that will satisfy you of course—I note you’re already putting up other irrelevant quotes and constructing an attack against me based on those.

                      I hope you do not conduct yourself in this unethical fashion when you are going about your Labour Party business. I recall the likes of Michael Cullen telling lies about Keith Locke in the House, and those thugs Mallard and Benson-Pope yelling “Send him home!” during debates on the mistreatment of the fugitive Algerian parliamentarian Ahmed Zaoui; your behaviour is very similar.

                    • Morrissey

                      I wasn’t saying that you claimed he was an idiot. Rather that he’d be an idiot if he said it.

                      He WROTE it in an “editorial” for his crummy business paper.

                      And the ‘claim’ isn’t the Breivek comparison it’s the ‘all terrorists are muslim’. So far, it appears you’re the one saying that, not Gibson.

                      No, he wrote it. Another reader picked him up on it, and compared him directly to Breivik. The comparison was apt, and I have used it ever since.

                      Your flippant, disrespectful attitude and your sarcastic taunting does you no credit, Te Reo. Gibson said what I said he did; I did not make it up, and I did not distort anything.

                      I will find that moronic Breivikian editorial—unlike you, I do care about getting things right—and put it on this site. Not that that will satisfy you of course—I note you’re already putting up other irrelevant quotes and constructing an attack against me based on those.

                      I hope you do not conduct yourself in this unethical fashion when you are going about your Labour Party business. I recall the likes of Michael Cullen telling lies about Keith Locke in the House, and those thugs Mallard and Benson-Pope yelling “Send him home!” during debates on the mistreatment of the fugitive Algerian parliamentarian Ahmed Zaoui; your behaviour is very similar.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      “No, he wrote it. Another reader picked him up on it, and compared him directly to Breivik. The comparison was apt, and I have used it ever since.”

                      Compared him directly to Breivik. That should make it a bit easier to find.

                      At the moment, Moz, I’m the only one of us to find a quote even remotely like your claim. And, weirdly, the second comment under the article that quote is from starts thus:

                      “Any introduction that starts by attributing, in unconscious homage to Anders Behring Breivik, …”

                      http://m.nbr.co.nz/opinion/when-war-hero-not-one

                    • Morrissey

                      Thanks, Te Reo! Not only are you a gentleman, but you’re a first-rate scholar. That is precisely the article I have been looking for. And yes, you are correct, and I am wrong—Gibson didn’t say ALL of the world’s terrorists were Muslims, as I had claimed he did.

                      By the way, note the modest little contribution by commenter no. 4….

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Very gracious of you, Mozza. Can you now point out the bit where Gibson wrote that “all—i.e., every single one—of the world’s terrorists were Muslims” as you claimed?

                      Cheers.

                    • Morrissey

                      Very gracious of you, Mozza.

                      Not at all, Te Reo. And please disregard all that horrible stuff where I compared you to the gruesome twosome of Mallard and Benson-Pope. That was gutter politics on my part.

                      Can you now point out the bit where Gibson wrote that “all—i.e., every single one—of the world’s terrorists were Muslims” as you claimed?

                      To, er, quote myself from this very thread: “And yes, you are correct, and I am wrong—Gibson didn’t say ALL of the world’s terrorists were Muslims, as I had claimed he did.”

                      Cheers.

                      Cheers to YOU, my friend. You are a bracing corrective, and I appreciate your efforts to keep this writer (i.e., moi) up to speed.

          • Morrissey 23.2.1.1.2

            1.What I’m saying is not what you are saying I’m suggesting.
            You said you switch off when David Farrar is on. I pointed out that he is merely one of a whole raft of right wing and extreme right wing guests on the show. If you find him repellent for some other valid reason which excludes the others, please let us know.

            2. So? light =sinful?

            Making light of the persecution of journalists and dissidents is certainly sinful. Did YOU think it was funny when Chris Trotter put on a funny voice to mimic the besieged Julian Assange?

            • McFlock 23.2.1.1.2.1

              🙄

            • McFlock 23.2.1.1.2.2

              🙄

            • grumpy 23.2.1.1.2.3

              You mean the besieged rapist Julian Assange?

              • Morrissey

                Fool, you were stupid enough to quote a war criminal to try to bolster a case you were making a few months ago…..

                Open mike 18/01/2014

                Your recycling of official lies shows you haven’t learned a thing.

                • grumpy

                  Too easy………not arguing about being a “war criminal” though……..the Left keep on producing them.

                  • Morrissey

                    Too easy…

                    WHAT is “too easy”?

                    ….not arguing about being a “war criminal” though……..the Left keep on producing them.

                    You dope. What does “right” and “left” have to do with this? Straw recycled lies about WMDs—even though he no doubt did not believe what he was saying—which puts him in the company of the extreme right, not the Left.

  23. Morrissey 24

    ABC News tells viewers that scenes of destruction in Gaza are in Israel
    Submitted by Rania Khalek on Wed, 07/09/2014 – 21:49

    More than fifty Palestinians have been killed and another 450 wounded since Monday in Israel’s ongoing assault on the besieged Gaza Strip, dubbed “Operation Protective Edge” by the Israeli army.

    As usual, mainstream media outlets are straining to paint Israel as the victim, defending its people against irrational Palestinian rocket fire.

    There is no equating the killing and maiming of dozens of innocent Palestinians with scared Israelis seeking shelter from crude rockets that rarely cause damage. But that hasn’t stopped media outlets from trying, and in some cases, outright lying, to distort the violence.

    In one stark example, ABC News’ Diane Sawyer misidentifies scenes of the aftermath of Israeli missile strikes in Gaza as destruction caused by Palestinian rocket fire.

    As Sawyer segues into the segment, she says, “We take you overseas now to the rockets raining down on Israel today as Israel tried to shoot them out of the sky.” Next to her is video footage not of Israelis or even Israel, but of Israeli airstrikes on Gaza.

    Sawyer then incorrectly describes an image of a Palestinian family gathering belongings in the smoking debris of a missile-hit home in Gaza as “an Israeli family trying to salvage what they can.”

    Sawyer then describes an image of a Palestinian woman surrounded by destroyed homes as “one woman standing speechless among the ruins,” with the implication that she is Israeli.

    Sawyer’s bald misreporting reflects either a deliberate lie by ABC News or willful ignorance so severe that Palestinian death and misery is invisible even when it’s staring ABC producers right in the face.

    The segment in its entirety can be seen here….
    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/israel-hit-150-rockets-targeting-10-cities-24477752?tab=9482930&section=1206853&playlist=24185255

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/abc-news-tells-viewers-scenes-destruction-gaza-are-israel

  24. Draco T Bastard 25

    Jane Kelsey: Secret talks bring threat of financial crises

    The more startling news is that our Government, with almost 50 other countries, is negotiating another secret deal in the shadows of the World Trade Organisation. They are calling to negotiate a Trade in Services Agreement (Tisa).

    It is part of a troika: along with the TPP and the deal the US is negotiating with the European Union, it aims to create a new set of global rules that are designed exclusively to serve commercial interests.

    This is no exaggeration. Last week US corporates held a launch for what they call Team Tisa. The co-chairs are Citigroup, Liberty Mutual, IBM, MetLife, UPS and Walmart. Leading members of Congress and the US Trade Representative were invited to speak.

    This is especially scary, because it aims to extend the model of liberalised and deregulated financial markets that brought us the global financial crisis.

    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    We see it all the time where economists and politicians just won’t let go of the failed economic hypothesis that brought us the GFC and increased poverty and inequality.

    • Tautoko Viper 25.1

      Why don’t we, the citizens of this country, declare that any secret deals signed without due notification and transparency to be null and void.
      Tim Groser has not been given the authority to commit our country to rules that have been deliberately kept secret.
      How successful would it be to set up a petition about this? Why should our country be lumbered with crappy rules written by US corporates ???
      Secrecy is not legitimacy, Tim Groser! It is wrong and completely unethical, (which is par for the course for this morally bereft government.)

  25. dimebag russell 26

    who listened to the claptrap on Radio New Zealand this arvo.
    It is becoming more and more infantilised and puerile by the day.
    and the tripe about rap music.
    this is vanity publishing by criminal crack dealers but here in New Zealand it is taken to be a genuine cultural phenomenon.
    I suppose it is if you are into criminality, drugs and gangs.

  26. felix 27

    I know many of us like to poke sticks at Chris Trotter, but have a listen to what he had to say today about, well, the patriarchy I guess: http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx

    Go to the 2PM Thursday segment, starts about 9 mins in.

    Pleasantly surprised I was.

    • karol 27.1

      Yes. Thanks, felix. I’m a little surprised by Trotter there as well.

      Rodney Hide – “it’s all about me and I’m not a bad person” – and Cunliffe’s apology is not going to go down well with male voters.. He clearly didn’t listen attentively to what Trotter said.

      Trotter about the long history and legacy of men being schooled to think women should listen respectfully to them, and give more weight to their voice than to that of women.

    • Morrissey 27.2

      Trotter wasn’t so empathetic with young women when he spoke out in defence of Willy and J.T. last year…

      Open mike 28/11/2013

      • felix 27.2.1

        I haven’t heard what he said then (your link doesn’t show it).

        But yes, it seems his thinking on such matters has been evolving. Hence the surprise.

        • Morrissey 27.2.1.1

          I agree with you Felix. Chris Trotter is usually an astute and compassionate commentator.

          • felix 27.2.1.1.1

            He gets a hard time around here, and sometimes deservedly, but it would be foolish to ever write him off.

  27. Dan1 28

    Some time back, someone documented Key’s lies. It was an impressive list, and clearly lots more could be added from over recent times.
    I have searched archived files but cannot find the link. Could some kind person give me the link.

  28. dimebag russell 29

    tonights tv news.
    we have the dumbest smart meters in the world.
    the power companies can monitor the customers but customers dont seem to have the right to monitor their own electricity usage.

  29. Draco T Bastard 30

    The tide is turning against the scam that is privatisation

    Privatisation isn’t working. We were promised a shareholding democracy, competition, falling costs and better services. A generation on, most people’s experience has been the opposite. From energy to water, rail to public services, the reality has been private monopolies, perverse subsidies, exorbitant prices, woeful under-investment, profiteering and corporate capture.

    And we’ve seen the same here. Privatisation has made things worse for the majority of people while a few people have creamed it usually via subsidies from the poorest.

    EDIT:
    American Delusions Down Under

    One wonders whether Abbott and his government really understand what has happened in the US? Does he realize that since the era of deregulation and liberalization began in the late 1970s, GDP growth has slowed markedly, and that what growth has occurred has primarily benefited those at the top? Does he know that prior to these “reforms,” the US had not had a financial crisis – now a regular occurrence around the world – for a half-century, and that deregulation led to a bloated financial sector that attracted many talented young people who otherwise might have devoted their careers to more productive activities? Their financial innovations made them extremely rich but brought America and the global economy to the brink of ruin.

    • Draco T Bastard 30.1

      Australia’s Needless Foreign Borrowing

      Foreign credit is the most obvious yet also most needless form of Australian dependency today. It is created without cost on computer keyboards in Japan, the United States and Britain and lent out at LIBOR rates as low as 1% to arbitrageurs buying Australian securities yielding at least 4.50% and rising. The 2 or 3% arbitrage gain is a free ride for speculators – at Australia’s expense.

      Over and above being a domestic expense, it must be paid in foreign exchange. This repayment will cause future pressure to drive the A$ back down, perpetuating Australia’s roller-coaster exchange rate cycle.

      
There is a widespread impression that if Australia created a similar amount of credit at home, this would be inflationary. That may be true – but it is more inflationary to allow foreigners to manufacture credit and add an interest charge that domestic credit creation could avoid.

      And the same is true of NZ.

  30. Philj 32

    xox
    Thanks Morissey. So glad I missed Jim Mora and the half twits. I have given up emailing him about the manure on his program. The standard has fallen so far. We deserve much higher standards from our ‘National’ broadcaster.

  31. dimebag russell 33

    I used to vote nationalbut they have disgraced themselves and played fast and loose with the law and have nasty brown stains round their mouths from too much arse kissing.
    I am going to vote for the Labour Party this election and they will kick the tories arses in September and restore decency and honesty to a body politic that sorely needs it.

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  • The tiniest of teeth
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    2 weeks ago

  • Week That Was: COVID-19 Alert Level 4
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  • SPEECH: Green Party Co-leader James Shaw – Ministerial statement on State of National Emergency an...
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  • Ground-breaking abortion law passes, giving NZers compassionate healthcare
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    2 weeks ago
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    2 weeks ago
  • Winston Peters: COVID-19 rescue package ‘more significant’ than any worldwide
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  • Our response to COVID-19
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  • ‘Demerit Points System’ will address youth crime
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  • Investment in kingfish farming
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  • New Zealand reaffirms support for Flight MH17 judicial process
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  • PGF investment in green hydrogen
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  • Coronavirus support for Pacific
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  • Green Party passes landmark law to ensure deaf and disabled voices heard equally in democracy
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    3 weeks ago

  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
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  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
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    22 hours ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
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    2 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
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    2 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
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  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
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    3 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
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    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
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    3 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
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  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
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    4 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
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    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
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    4 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
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    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
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    4 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
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    4 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
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    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
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    4 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
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    5 days ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
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    5 days ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
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    5 days ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
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    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
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    6 days ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
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    6 days ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
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    6 days ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
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    7 days ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
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    7 days ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
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    1 week ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
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    1 week ago
  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
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    1 week ago
  • PM Address – Covid-19 Update
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    1 week ago
  • NZ and Singapore commit to keeping supply and trade links open, including on essential goods and med...
    New Zealand and Singapore have jointly committed to keep supply chains open and to remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the commitment. “This is an important collective response, and ...
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    1 week ago
  • Joint Ministerial Statement by Singapore and New Zealand -Covid-19 situation
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    1 week ago
  • Transit between Australia and New Zealand
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    1 week ago
  • $100 million to redeploy workers
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More support for wood processing
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    1 week ago
  • Govt steps in to protect Air New Zealand
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    1 week ago
  • Stronger border measures to protect NZers from COVID-19
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    1 week ago
  • Action on indoor gatherings and events to protect public health
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealanders advised not to travel overseas
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    1 week ago
  • Govt announces aviation relief package
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    1 week ago