Open mike 10/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 10th, 2015 - 119 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

119 comments on “Open mike 10/12/2015”

  1. Northshoredoc 1

    Oh dear another Marty Mars who takes the view that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a tr0ll.

    • Stuart Munro 1.1

      100+ comments a day on a blog site that broadly speaking finds your views inane or offensive and you think you’re not a troll…

      Why not hang out on Whale oil or kiwiblog with the rest of the toxic waste?

      • Northshoredoc 1.1.1

        100+ comments a day…….I don’t think so, do you have me confused with someone else ?

        Why do you suggest my views are inane and offensive ?

        • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.1

          Maybe you should address the question ‘doc’ – just what is it about trolling that is so important to you? Why not put your vacuous views to loons and morons who will applaud you?

        • Northshoredoc 1.1.1.2

          As I’ve suggested to others on this thread Stuart, why don’t you answer my question ?

          Why do you suggest my views are inane and offensive ?

          Why have you accused me of making 100+ comments a day at this site ?

        • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.3

          I do not suggest ‘doc’ – I state.

          Answer the question – why all this trolling? RL issues?

        • northshoredoc 1.1.1.4

          “I do not suggest ‘doc’ – I state.”

          You may not suggest but you certainly lie.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.5

          my views are inane and offensive ?

          On this subject, they look like bog-standard ignorance to me. Nothing to be ashamed of. You’re much more incisive on matters medical but.

    • weka 1.2

      Oh dear another Marty Mars who takes the view that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a tr0ll.

      Funny, that looks like a trolly comment to me.

      How about you link to support your assertion that MM believes that all people who disagree with him are trolls, or say something that puts your comment in context? Otherwise you look like you are just trying to wind people up.

      • weka 1.2.1

        Yes I found the discussion (I assume that your comment about marty has been moved from there to Open Mike for being off topic). You have avoided answering my question. Nevermind, it’s pretty clear from your behaviour here and in the other thread that marty was right, you are being a troll.

      • savenz 1.2.2

        Just ignore the trolls like NorthShoreDoc – they are doing it to add volume and derail the issues so that people can’t be bothered reading the feeds through.

        [lprent: After he called BLip ‘Blimp’ (why do the dickheads want to provide clear violations of the policy like that – attention seeking masochists?), I had a read through his comments on the post and decided that was exactly what he was doing. Too low a standard to keep around in the debate. ]

        • srylands 1.2.2.1

          You have such double standards. You allow people to call me SSLands, the implication being that I am a Nazi. I also told you that two frequent posters here were stalking me and tracking down my identity.

          [lprent: You’re not an author. You are a commenter. We need authors far more than we need commenters. So we have more protections and exert more effort in protecting them, and we insist that commenters respect the job that authors do in providing this site with posts for commenters to argue in. This is reflected in the policy.

          For commenters we don’t provide the same protections. Name calling isn’t that interesting to us unless it starts interfering with the flow of discussion in the comments.

          With the IRL identity thing, what we protect on is where people make absolute statements (or statements that directly infer) about who a particular individual is in real life.

          We don’t try to control the reaction when people state that they have particular experience or insight or authority on a particular topic. Then it is part of a robust debate that others can speculate about their actual experience and understanding. I see a lot of the latter from and about you, and I can’t recall ever seeing the former.

          You’re welcome to link to specific examples identifying you. But remember that I will be looking at it with my knowledge – not yours. In other words I’d look at it based on what is actually there rather than what you with your greater knowledge about yourself might infer what is there. Much of the time I find that people tend to be overly self-centred about their own level of visibility. ]

          • Muttonbird 1.2.2.1.1

            But you are not an author. NorthShoreDoc appears to have been binned for his attitude towards an author which, if you have read it, violates the policy.

      • marty mars 1.2.3

        It’s from another post where the doc is working – I have corrected his bogus assumption.

  2. Dont worry.be happy 2

    Will the Key government stand up and tell Trump he cannot enter NZ ? Hate speech and all that…..

    • mary_a 2.1

      @ Dont worry.be happy (1) – doubt it, because Trump is a big money man and we all know how FJK just adores playing with the big powerful movers and shakers of the world.

      However, here’s an interesting point to consider. If Trump had his way, Muslims would not be allowed to enter the US, not to live or as visitors. So where would this place NZ Ambassador to be to the US, Tim Groser who is Muslim, should in the dreadful event of Trump becoming President?

      Check out Groser’s details on Wikipedia, which lists his religion as Islam, apparently having converted during the mid 1990s after marrying his Indonesian wife.

  3. Murray Simmonds 3

    There is an interesting summary of “How the TPP Will Affect You and Your Digital Rights” at:

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/how-tpp-will-affect-you-and-your-digital-rights

    To quote one small section:
    “ . . . . . .its provisions do little to nothing to protect our rights online or our autonomy over our own devices. For example, everything in the TPP that increases corporate rights and interests is binding, whereas every provision that is meant to protect the public interest is non-binding and is susceptible to get bulldozed by efforts to protect corporations.”

    All-in-all its pretty sobering reading!

    • Murray Simmonds 3.1

      An interesting side-issue is this:
      Assuming the TPP is eventually signed into law, will it apply retrospectively? (I’m guessing that it will.)

      For example if I posted something on Youtube, say, 5 years ago, and it is subsequently found to breach copyright under the new TPP provisions, will I become liable?

      That could get interesting because as far as I am aware, once you post something to Youtube, you cannot take it down at a later date – only Youtube seems to be able to do that. If i recall correctly, whatever you post there becomes, in some sense, the property of Youtube – but I could be wrong about that.

      i’d appreciate the chance to read the collective wisdom of Standardistas on this.

      (At this point I’d LOVE to paste here a picture of Alfred E Neumann from “Mad” magazine, along with a quote of his famous “What? Me worry?”. But perhaps I can’t do that now – at least not according to the new TPP rules . . . )

    • Chooky 3.2

      Yes and the NZ Labour Party supports this…because it is not opposing it like the Greens and NZF

      ‘Flouting The Rules: Why has Andrew Little rejected a winning TPPA strategy for a guaranteed loser? ‘

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/10/14/flouting-the-rules-why-has-andrew-little-rejected-a-winning-tppa-strategy-for-a-guaranteed-loser/

      • savenz 3.2.1

        @ Chooky, Yep now Labour has had some time to reflect on TPP (and looking at country of Labeling COOL, WTO decision etc, and TPP txt is much worse, border control and food biosecurity and so forth, not to mention Health, charter schools etc).

        Are Labour prepared to actually have a clear view of Yes or No on TPP?

        Sort of, doesn’t have a winning ring to it.

        • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1

          Are Labour prepared to actually have a clear view of Yes or No on TPP?

          Whats happened is they’ve had a good look at it and they’ve realised that its not a bad deal for NZ, not great but not bad either so what they’ll be hoping is that if they ignore it then maybe their supporters will forget what Labour have said about the TPP in the past

          Going on past history they’ll probably get away with it as well

          • savenz 3.2.1.1.1

            @Puckish Rogue

            If you look at Labour election history you might find they are not ‘getting away with sitting on the fence on neoliberal issues’.

            Instead they are haemorrhaging their existing voters and putting them off voting.

            But at least we seem to agree nobody knows whether Labour agree with TPP or not.

            By not being clear and firm on the TPP issue they are doing the Labour equivalent of Natz Panda, cancer treatments anyone?

          • Chooky 3.2.1.1.2

            @ Puckish Rogue…so you are PR advocating for the Labour Party now?

            ….that is a bit of a worry because you are a right wing Nact supporter are you not?

            ….show the depths to which Labour has sunk…it is now a lighter version of jonkey nact

            ….time for a new REAL Labour Party with Mana

            • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1.2.1

              I do vote right but Seymours performance thus far may well make me consider voting Act

              If Act get a couple of seats it might mean the demise of Peter Dunne and I think that’s something we can all get behind

  4. esoteric pineapples 4

    Mentioned this yesterday but way down Open Mike. As excellent The Spinoff writer Alex Casey points out, not one woman was among Massey University’s most memorable quotes of the year. They do get a mention indirectly for being harrassed by the Prime Minister and farting on a beach. David Seymour’s pretty lame quote about the French loving the cock is supposedly one of the most amazing quotes of last year. As Guy Williams said on the Jono and Ben Show last Friday – is that the best they can come up with? This says more about the political and media environment that has been created under this government than anything else. About half of New Zealand (the half that doesn’t like this government and is progressive) is being locked out of mainstream discourse, or at least seen as being outside it.

    http://thespinoff.co.nz/09-12-2015/media-are-new-zealands-quotes-of-the-year-really-all-by-men/

  5. Penny Bright 5

    Regarding the question of compliance with the OIA.

    In my view – the answer is REALLY simple.

    Fully implement and enforce the Public Records Act 2005.

    That way information will not have to be sought through OIA or LGOIMA requests – public records will already be available for public scrutiny.

    I did not find ANY reference in the Ombudsman’s report on the OIA to the Public Records Act.

    How can you have transparency or accountability without proper written records which are available for public scrutiny?

    How about splitting responsibility for the implementation and enforcement of the Public Records Act 2005?

    Give the responsibility for the ‘creation and maintenance’ of Public Records to the Ombudsman.

    Change the orientation of the Office of the Ombudsman from focusing on dealing with complaints from those who have been unable to access ‘official information’ – to proactively ensuring that ‘public offices’ have the proper systems in place so that public records ARE created, maintained and available for public scrutiny.

    Arguably, the Office of the Ombudsman would need to ‘rejig’ and hire information management systems experts in order to assist public offices setting up systems to ‘create and maintain’ public records, because that role would be quite different to investigating complaints.

    Wouldn’t that be WIN / WIN?

    Arguably, the more work and effort put into the creation and maintenance of public records – the less work in dealing with complaints for alleged ‘non-compliance’ with the OIA?

    In my view – the secret is to focus on the Public Records Act 2005 – and that will sort out the issue of compliance with the OIA.

    Anyone else share that view?

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • Sacha 5.1

      As you have been advised here before (including linked evidence), the Public Records Act does not affect the *release* of information other than for archives over 25 years old. The OIA does. Don’t be a braying dunce.

      • Penny Bright 5.1.1

        Have you actually READ the Public Records Act 2005 Sacha?

        Penny Bright
        2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

        • Penny Bright 5.1.1.1

          In order to assist Sacha – the ‘Purposes’ of the Public Records Act 2005.

          (Particularly s. 3 (c) (i) ? )

          http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345536.html

          3 Purposes of Act

          The purposes of this Act are—

          (a) to provide for the continuation of the repository of public archives called the National Archives with the name Archives New Zealand (Te Rua Mahara o te Kāwanatanga); and

          (b) to provide for the role of the Chief Archivist in developing and supporting government recordkeeping, including making independent determinations on the disposal of public records and certain local authority archives; and

          (c) to enable the Government to be held accountable by—

          (i) ensuring that full and accurate records of the affairs of
          central and local government are created and maintained;
          and

          (ii) providing for the preservation of, and public access to,
          records of long-term value; and

          (d) to enhance public confidence in the integrity of public records and local
          authority records; and

          (e) to provide an appropriate framework within which public
          offices and local authorities create and maintain public
          records and local authority records, as the case may be; and

          (f) through the systematic creation and preservation of public
          archives and local authority archives, to enhance the
          accessibility of records that are relevant to the historical and
          cultural heritage of New Zealand and to New Zealanders’
          sense of their national identity; and

          (g) to encourage the spirit of partnership and goodwill envisaged
          by the Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi), as provided
          for by section 7; and

          (h) to support the safekeeping of private records.
          _________________________________________________________________________________

          How can you have transparency and accountability, without proper written records which are available for public scrutiny?

          Hope this helps.

          Kind regards,

          Penny Bright

          2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

          • Sacha 5.1.1.1.1

            There is a law called the Public Records Act. It says state agencies have to create and store records. They do this.

            There is another law called the Official Information Act (OIA) that manages how state agencies are meant to *release* information. This is where the problem is.

            Please do the most basic research before you shoot your mouth off.

            • Ad 5.1.1.1.1.1

              ka-ching!

            • Penny Bright 5.1.1.1.1.2

              “Please do the most basic research before you shoot your mouth off.”

              I respectfully suggest that you follow your own advice ‘Sacha’.

              Penny Bright

              2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

              • Sacha

                Show where I haven’t. I really cannot abide people polluting public discourse with falsehoods. You have had every opportunity to understand this and other topics. Yet you choose to keep flapping your gums instead. Find another hobby, eh.

        • Sacha 5.1.1.2

          As mentioned I’ve already provided your highness with a credible accounting of its contents. Perhaps you could cease your ornamental crochet and actualy read it. Toodle pip.

        • Grindlebottom 5.1.1.3

          I had a look at it out of interest today Penny. The Public Records Act sets out the mandate and role of Archives New Zealand (formerly National Archives) and the Chief Archivist, as well as the requirements & standards for public records to be created & maintained by public offices and local authorities, the definition of public and local authority records, and provisions under which they’re to be archived and/or otherwise disposed of.

          Also rules under which Archives NZ may accept deposit of Parliamentary records, Ministers’ papers, and private or other records of historical events, public offices or organisations, or any persons of historical, political or cultural significance – and any conditions as agreed between the Chief Archivist and the Clerk of the House, Minister or controlling public office as appropriate.

          It provides for some classes of local of authority records to be declared “protected”. It also requires that public office records 25 years old more, or which or are being archived, must be classified as open access or restricted access. It similarly provides that a local authority record becomes a local authority archive when it is no longer in current use or has been in existence for 25 years, or more, and that it must also be classified as either open access or restricted access, regardless of where held. What is restricted is determined by the Chief Archivist or legistlation. Max restriction 25 years, renewable.

          It then provides for archived open access records to be made available to the public for inspection free of charge (or subject to whatever reasonable charge the Chief Archivist specifies for research, copying, or other services provided to a requestor). And it also says local authorities must similarly provide free inspection of any archive not restricted (subject to any similar charge for services such as photocopying, research, transcription etc allowed under the Local Government Act 2002).

          The Public Records Act is about the requirements & rules for creating & keeping public records, and for their subsequent archiving for posterity and/or disposal, Penny. It allows public access to “open” archived records. It doesn’t provide access to current (i.e. non-archived) public or local authority records, or to restricted archives. And it reposes responsibility for ensuring organisations meet these legal obligations for record-keeping, archiving and classification) in the Chief Archivist.

          The general purpose of the Act as summarised in s.3 is specified more precisely in its succeeding sections, s,3 doesn’t override them in some way.

          Sacha is right. This Act does not give a right of and rules around public access to current official information, the Official Information Act does that.

  6. Manuka AOR 6

    British War Vets have thrown their medals outside Downing Street in protest against the Government’s decision to bomb Syria and to bust the “mythology” of heroism connected to the military.

    “Mr Griffin, who won his medal for serving in Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland and Macedonia, said it was a “powerful” and “incredible experience,” adding: “These are things we once treasured, so it’s a difficult thing to give away but we think it’s really important that we do that – both in protest against this war but also because want to get rid of the mythology around these things.” “

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/veterans-throw-away-their-war-medals-in-disgust-at-british-air-strikes-in-syria-a6765446.html

    • Chooky 6.1

      +100 Manuka AOR…very moving

    • Poission 6.2

      the “mythology” of heroism connected to the military.

      Busted by Kipling.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_the_Light_Brigade

    • vto 6.3

      Agree completely with the British vets.

      Myths and the military go hand in hand all over the place. After all, their very arena of operation, war, is the epitome of bullshit and lies. First casualty of war is truth. Who operates wars? The military.

      Two popular myths;

      One, that Anzac day is about the military. Well, f&%k the military, they are the pricks who sent the men to their useless deaths. Anzac day is about the people who died. The military should be shunted out of the annual commemorations.

      Two, that the military fights to defend our freedoms etc etc crappy etc. The military answers to the crown, not us. It is there to protect the crown not us. And this is what the history shows, including here in NZ.

      I have no idea why people respect the military. Probably same reason they vote for Donald Trump and John Key. The military should be feared, not respected. Feared because they more often turn their guns on the citizens than anyone else.

  7. Morrissey 7

    So killing doctors, nurses and patients is “liberating” them.
    The most repellent propaganda masquerades as news on Al-Jazeera

    Al Jazeera News, Thursday 10 December 2015, 8:00 a.m.

    The Qatari dictatorship is, together with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United States and the United Kingdom, the chief sponsor and supporter of Daesh/ISIL, Jabhat al-Nusra and al Qaeda, collectively known by the mendacious title of “the moderate Syrian opposition”. Al Jazeera is the mouthpiece of the Qatari dictatorship. There is a sometimes subtle, but more often crude and audacious, bias in its news reportage and its selection of guests for its discussions.

    First item up on this morning’s news was the most recent Afghani resistance attack, this time on a heavily fortified civilian and military airfield in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar. At least 37 people, including many children, have been killed.

    The “reporter” (one Rob Matheson, who is yet another of the ex-BBC hacks who infest Al Jazeera) then went on to say this:

    The city of Kunduz was over-run by the Taliban in September. It was liberated after a series of coalition airstrikes.”

    Of course, any viewer with a degree of sentience above that of a zombie would have been aware that the “coalition” (i.e. the U.S. military) went about “liberating” Kunduz by bombing Kunduz Hospital between 2:08 and 3:15 a.m. on Saturday October 3rd. When the Americans stopped their bombing, they had killed 31 patients, nurses and doctors. To deliberately ignore that, and to pretend that the Americans are “liberating” anyone, is propaganda at its most ruthless.

    http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/12/08/kunduz-msf-hospital-us-bombing-survivor-i-want-my-story-to-be-heard/

  8. Manuka AOR 8

    British war veterans have thrown away their medals outside Downing Street in protest against the Government’s decision to bomb Syria and to bust the “mythology” of heroism connected to the military.

    “Mr Griffin, who won his medal for serving in Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland and Macedonia, said it was a “powerful” and “incredible experience,” adding: “These are things we once treasured, so it’s a difficult thing to give away but we think it’s really important that we do that – both in protest against this war but also because want to get rid of the mythology around these things. “ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/veterans-throw-away-their-war-medals-in-disgust-at-british-air-strikes-in-syria-a6765446.html

    • Tracey 8.1

      Good for them. I dare cameron to call them “rent-a-crowd”

      • Heather Grimwood 8.1.1

        To Tracey at 8.1
        On same line of thought, what can be done about the disgusting ignorant insolence of our incoming minister of Climate Change, who according to TV One on screen said that the index ( of measures to reduce use of fossil fuels etc) is “by a bunch of environmentalists who criticise what any country’s doing”??!!! The peculiar grammar is as reported and not mine.

      • Heather Grimwood 8.1.2

        To Tracey at 8.1
        On same line of thought, what can be done about the disgusting ignorant insolence of our incoming minister of Climate Change, who according to TV One on screen said that the index ( of measures to reduce use of fossil fuels etc) is “by a bunch of environmentalists who criticise what any country’s doing”??!!! The grammar is as reported and not mine.

  9. gsays 9

    while i am at the keyboard, i want to share with y’all the feelings of pride and enthusiasm for the future that i have.

    went to prize-giving at my boys high school.
    the calibre and achievements on display were inspiring.
    the dux runner-up got a+ on 3 level 300 papers (calculus, physics) and he is in year 11!

    the new head prefect was winner of the open korero, impromptu speech and a few other accolades.( my head was spinning at the list of achievements listed)

    numerous sporting and other cultural highs as well.

    its a small counterpoint to all the bad news stories we hear about our young men, time and time again.

    well done gentlemen.

    • northshoredoc 9.1

      Fantastic gsays.

      I agree the calibre of so many of the young men and women coming out of our schools is quite outstanding.

    • repateet 9.2

      Sorry, doesn’t count unless it’s at a charter school!

      That’s what I’ve learned from reading a couple of other blog sites. Something not so good goes on at a non-charter school, the boot goes in hard and heavy. Good stuff happens but is ignored.
      Microscopes and search parties are out though seeking something positive happening in a charter school and it’s BIG news.

      Corruption happens in the Ministry of Education or Education Review Office and they don’t want to know.

      Day to day there are immense successes in ‘ordinary’ schools with ‘extraordinary’ efforts and achievements.

      Well done to the young men you mention, the adults who helped get them there and their peers who pushed and encouraged them to their success.

    • Ad 9.3

      Great Stuff GSays

  10. Tracey 10

    INteresting u-turn by National on the criminalisation of cartel behaviour by NZ businesses. Interestingly the “one law for all” ACT party doesn’t want criminlisation because it will be deterimental. And yet, beneficiaries and others,s craping by, need this kind of hammer posied over their heads… punishments yes, but prison? No, no no?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1512/S00293/goldsmith-drops-bid-to-criminalise-cartel-behaviour.htm

    • Karen 10.1

      Paul Goldsmith gave an appallingly poor interview about this on Morning Report. It was on Monday morning I think, and I would guess has been archived.

      • Puddleglum 10.1.2

        Yes, Guyon Espiner really held Goldsmith’s feet to the fire on this one.

        And Goldsmith seemed to realise right from the start of the interview that he didn’t have a leg to stand on. He was hesitant and back footing it right from the beginning – his heart was nowhere near in it.

        The only line he’d been given to defend the u-turn was some ridiculous claim that prison sentences would have a chilling effect on business innovation – of all things – and so be harmful to competition.

        Some kind of straw-clutching at ‘co-opetition‘ presumably. Must have been a bit of a bright spark Ministerial advisor who gave him that one to run with. Went down like a lead balloon.

        That rationale was never going to fly – far, far too subtle (in the sense of dancing on the head of a pin) and suspect for the average (and above average) listener.

        • Penny Bright 10.1.2.1

          My point is simple.

          If public records were CREATED and MAINTAINED and readily available for public scrutiny, then the information would not need to be requested under the OIA or LGOIMA ?

          That’s my considered opinion.

          You don’t have to agree with it.

          FYI – having raised directly with the Board of Watercare earlier this year, the absence of any information on either their bills or their website that explains where monies received for water and wastewater services is actually SPENT, there has been a development.

          Some details of awarded contracts are now available on their website, which was not previously the case.

          It was Watercare’s alleged failure to comply with the Public Records Act which I brought to their attention, which, in my opinion, has resulted in this improvement, regarding ‘transparency’ and ‘accountability’ in the spending of public money.

          Penny Bright

          2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • vto 10.2

      The hypocrisy is eye-watering, agreed.

    • Ad 10.3

      The number of oligopolies that do us all in with grossly overpriced goods and services, barely regulated in this country, this move to not even lift a parliamentary finger is disgusting:

      – Building products
      – Banking
      – Airport landing charges
      – Airlines (now slightly better)
      – Supermarkets
      – Insurers
      – Water suppliers
      – Electricity generators
      – (and more)

      And you wonder where the Nats get their donations from …

      • vto 10.3.1

        +100

        Poor people conspire in deceit to trick people out of their money – criminal charges, prison and opprobrium are rained down upon them.

        Business people conspire in deceit to trick people out of their money – a measly fine, if you’re lucky, one day, sometime.

        Why the difference Nacts?
        Why the difference?

        Why the difference?

        What difference is there?

        Shouldn’t business in fact operate to higher standards, not lower?

        What a frikkin joke…

        Know why our houses cost so much more than in Australia ? The anti-competitive behaviour of Fletchers. It is bullshit. The politicians I have met even openly acknowledge this, yet do nothing about it.

        bullshit
        bullshit
        bullshit

        Pay $350,000 to build your new house, rather than $250-300,000. That is the hard cold reality….

        That is the difference

        That is the difference that this government is happy for people to pay.

        Liars, cheats and bullshit artists. Snakeoil merchants. Wide boys and grandma vendors. Nasty, greedy, selfish, individualists. Scam artists. Merchant bankers. Ponytail pullers. They all own shares in Fletchers. They all make the rules for Fletchers. Scum.

  11. Karen 11

    Peter Aranyi has written a fantastic article about the content of the Chisholm Report that “cleared ” Judith Collins.

    It will be the first of a series:

    http://www.thepaepae.com/the-chisholm-inquiry-who-was-actually-on-trial/36207/

    • ianmac 11.1

      Crikey! From reading that Karen it seems OK for anyone to destroy anything that may harm your defence. Had the Chisolm enquiry been in a Courtroom would evasions/deletions be acceptable?
      For Slater to be “broke” it seems that he/they must have had some pretty powerful legal support to be able tododge the bullets. Wonder who his legal team were and who paid for the 10s of thousands of dollars.
      Delete this and that. Deny memory of this and that. Refer to the narrow frames of reference rather than the intent of the enquiry.

    • Tracey 11.2

      I think people have conveniently forgotten that Collinss did not cooperate and appears to have destroyed evidence… this nothing to hide nothing to fear former Minister for Justice and Police…

      🙄

      • ianmac 11.2.1

        A bit in the enquiry had phone calls from Collins to Slater but not one from Slater to Collins according to the records. so no evidence of collusion. Yeah right.

  12. northshoredoc 12

    The majority of red herrings being flopped around are by the likes of you and blimp.

  13. Tracey 13

    Interesting to note how involved our PM is in GSB thse days. How knowledgeable he has become since relinquishing all responsibility and accountability for the secret services. Cortex, presumably paid for by taxpayers, is something he now wants to offer to all small and medium businesses. It may be a good idea, I don’t know, but it is a redirection of taxpayer money from say, health, to businesses. I assume the Taxpayers Union will be OUTRAGED at this form of subsidy? ACT will vote against it?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11558741

    [r0b: Your comments are going into moderation because of extra text in the name field, which I am deleting…]

  14. Draco T Bastard 14

    17 horrifying mental health facts that have been delivered to Jeremy Hunt

    7. The Tories’ back-to-work scheme makes things worse

    Figures show just 9% of people with mental conditions on disability benefit found a job if they took part in the Tories’ Work Programme.

    And 83% of people surveyed by the charity Mind said the scheme had actually made their mental health condition worse.

    Labour’s Luciana Berger said: “How can it be right that programmes that are supposed to help people into work are doing the opposite?”

    And those policies will also be increasing the number of suicides that are mentioned at 1. and 2. of the article.

    And National are implementing the same or similar punitive policies here.

  15. lprent 15

    There were two major updates that went into the site last night.

    WordPress upgraded to version 4.4

    The mobile display had an upgrade and a change to a theme that allowed replies to comments rather than just comments to a post

    • weka 15.1

      when I click on the reply button, my cursor now loads in the Name (Required) field instead of the Your Comment field. Any chance it could be set back to the comment field?

      • Tracey 15.1.1

        Same happens on both counts for me weka. Am in Auck. PC and mobile.

      • lprent 15.1.2

        Is that in the mobile theme like Tracey or the desktop theme?

        It should be easy to fix either way.

        • weka 15.1.2.1

          That’s on my laptop. Will have a look on both themes on phone later.

        • Lanthanide 15.1.2.2

          Happening to me on the desktop theme too, with cookies to remember my name.

        • weka 15.1.2.3

          On my phone it’s doing that on the desktop theme. On the mobile theme it drops me to the comment box at bottom of page with the cursor not inserted anywhere.

      • lprent 15.1.3

        Very odd. I can see that it is meant to be setting it in the code…..

        Looks like I will have to fix this during the weekend

    • weka 15.2

      the other thing that changed overnight is that when I click on a comment in the Comments list that is for a page I am already on, instead of it just jumping down the page to the comment, it now reloads the page to go to comment. Bit of a pain for those of still on rural broadband speeds.

      (I haven’t checked another browser, this one is Firefox mac).

      • lprent 15.2.1

        Ah drat. That was something that I’d disabled in the desktop theme to prevent bots, but had to enable to get the mobile theme to do replies.

        That is something I should be able to hack in functions or the theme.

        I’ll change it to do the same thing to the mobile theme as the desktop theme has. Just use javascript to move the comment section to the comment being replied to.

        Hopefully tonight.

      • lprent 15.2.2

        Ok, this is probably a problem in your browser if it is a desktop.

        The comment reply on a desktop theme depends on using javascript to set the comment section to the appropriate place in the HTML and internally setting the right comment to reply to.

        However if the javascript fails or has been disabled, it falls back to doing it the old fashioned way and loading comment. In this case what you will see is a reload of the page and somewhere in the address bar is a replytocomm=number where the number is that of the comment you are replying to.

        It doesn’t do that on my firefox / linux or firefox / windows or even Lyn’s firefox / mac.

        What it used to do before I changed the mobile theme was that when doing a reply, it would return a Gone screen because I’d disabled to replytocomm to limit pesky bots.

        I’ll force a reload of the DCN caches just to make it isn’t server side. But it looks like something on the client side.

        • weka 15.2.2.1

          Javascript is enabled on my firefox. I just tried a safe mode restart to disable all addons, but that hasn’t changed anything.

          The URL stays the same except the number changes as the page reloads.

          This page reloading thing happened after the upgrade you just did, so if it’s my side does that mean that there is an incompatibility between my version of Firefox (42.0) and WordPress? Or do you mean that it’s actually my particular copy of Firefox that is the problem?

          I’ll go test Safari.

        • weka 15.2.2.2

          hmm, going into moderation now.

    • Ad 15.3

      Outstanding work Lyn.

      Much easier commenting from the cellphone.

      Thankyou.

  16. NZJester 16

    Apparently Cameron Slater’s Whaleoil site has been biting one of the hands that feeds him.
    Xero’s boss said he has withdrawn funds from advertising on Whaleoil after what what he says a campaign critical of Xero steered by Rodney Hide on the site.

    I guess if you lay down with wild dogs, don’t be surprised if you get up covered in flea bites or get bitten a few times!

  17. Manuka AOR 17

    Why are these ancient trees of Aotearoa allowed to be cut down?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/74965502/kauri-tree-saved-at-11th-hour-again

    • Chooky 17.1

      Yes, even if they have no aesthetic or ecological or Maori forest lore sense, those developers (John Lenihan and Jane Greensmith) are stupid!

      The land is is worth so much more with ancient trees on it!.

      In some places (eg in Sydney and USA) architects build around trees rather than cut them down. It gives their buildings a unique edge and focus

      http://blazepress.com/2015/07/10-beautiful-buildings-that-have-incorporated-trees-instead-of-cutting-them-down/

      http://www.theonlinecentral.com/inventive-buildings-whose-architects-refused-to-cut-down-local-trees/

      http://www.ba-bamail.com/content.aspx?emailid=16695

      http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/trees-shrubs/protecting-trees-from-construction-damage/

      • maui 17.1.1

        I agree having a 500 year old tree is worth more than a slab of concrete.

        I was reading a book today though about early european explorers visiting areas around Taupo and finding a lot of forest had already been burnt down by Maori. From what I could gather by burning off forest and scrubland reappearing where they could harvest fern root and where it was possibly easier to hunt birds, was vital for survival. Hawkes Bay and the Wairarapa were similarly burnt, scrubby landscapes I think.

        If you could transport pre-european Maori back to today, it would be interesting to get their take on what parts of the land they would leave (sacred) and what parts they would use to their full advantage. I’m putting my own interpretation of traditional Maori there from a white perspective, and it’s probably a lot more complex and different.

        • Chooky 17.1.1.1

          @maui..from my limited knowledge( and speaking as a Pakeha with some Maori ancestry)…there are quite a few books out there on what plants and trees the old Maori looked after…generally they were conservationists, much more so than the early European settlers….some Maori Tohunga know a lot about all this…ie the old Maori were polytheistic and there were gods and spirituality in all nature and in their landscapes

          Elsden Best ‘Forest Lore of the Maori ‘ is a detailed account and a great read …(I bought my copy years ago but it has gone up in price, judging from below ….not sure if there are new pbs editions)

          http://www.smithsbookshop.co.nz/bookshop/5102307.php

          Can also highly recommend Geoff Park’s classic, ‘Nga Uru Ora — the Groves of Life: Ecology and History in a New Zealand Landscape’ written by an ecologist on tour in his canoe ( you feel you are with him)

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/nga_uruora

          This book gives a great feel for the history and reverence the Maori felt towards their special places

          There are books on edible plants and medicinal herbs

          Anything on Maori spirituality by Rev. Dr. Maori Marsden is worth reading eg.

          Maori Marsden , “The Natural World and Natural Resources: Maori Value Systems and perspectives” ( paper for Ministry for Environment,1989)and ‘Maori Values and Environmental Management'( New Zealand Natural Resources Unit, Manata Maori,1991)

          All this just scratches the surface of a forgotten history and spirituality which is very Gaia/ Papatuanuku centred and relevant today

          • maui 17.1.1.1.1

            I was reading “Forest Lore of the Maori”, so you nailed it! I was looking up what food sources Maori traditionally used and find it quite interesting. Thanks for the links, I have thought about buying Nga Uru Ora for ages.

            • Chooky 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Nga Uru Ora is fantastic…I think it is out of print by Victoria University( they should reprint because it is a classic)….but you can get it on Amazon and I expect from various secondhand book shops

          • tinfoilhat 17.1.1.1.2

            While I don’t dispute that there is considerable credentials to Maori conservation it is important to note that there was quite considerable clearance of native forest prior to the arrival of European settlers.

    • weka 17.2

      “Why are these ancient trees of Aotearoa allowed to be cut down?”

      because money doesn’t grow on trees, so what use are they?

      • savenz 17.2.1

        The trees were meant to be cut down to create car parking on the site which the council supported. The council planners could asked for the house to be built around the trees – but why do their job when you can just rubber stamp everything?

        The consultants noted the trees as ‘high value vegetation’ burying it within a 70 page report. The developers then have gone to court to downgrade the environmental conditions on other sites they own.

        Don’t worry, Auckland property developers are not developing for the local market that might enjoy the trees!

        • Chooky 17.2.1.1

          car parks with trees look good too….but better not to have the car park

          • Andre 17.2.1.1.1

            Um, yes any new development in that near area really does need off-street parking. It’s very narrow and windy, and even as it is I wouldn’t be surprised if rubbish trucks are sometimes blocked from getting through. But the right way to do it is follow the example set by the neighbouring property (number44) and several others on the street and build a parking deck out on poles just off the street at street level.

            I’m only a few houses down the street from the place in question, BTW.

            • Chooky 17.2.1.1.1.1

              in Wellington single lanes up the sides of very steep inner city treed hills adds to the frisson and character of the place…(and yes they do build pole garage platforms where they can if lucky)

              Aucklanders need to get some CLASS and STYLE and put the trees first…before their cars

              Auckland was a beautiful area …now trashed by the roads and cars and car parks

  18. Chooky 18

    This makes sense:

    ‘Syrian chessboard’

    https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/325182-syrian-chessboard-us-syria/

    “Recent claims that the US bombed a Syrian military installation may be a telling example of how Washington and its allies intend to escalate their war on the Syrian regime and NOT against terrorists. It would appear Assad remains target number one.

    CrossTalking with Martin Jay, Marcus Papadopoulos, and Ivan Eland.”

  19. The lost sheep 19

    Essential reading for NZ’ers wanting to be less ignorant about the state of their Nation…

    http://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/annual-update-key-results-2014-15-nzhs-dec15-1.docx

  20. Penny Bright 20

    FYI.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    In Auckland – is it ‘DEMOCRACY’ just for developers, and a DICTATORSHIP for the rest of us?

    URGENT! Pre-Christmas Public Meeting to inform, network and organise re: proposed Auckland Unitary Plan / zoning/ RMA changes.

    WHEN: Saturday 12 December 2015

    TIME: 10.30am – 12.30pm

    WHERE: Tamaki Ex-Services Assn Hall
    Corner Turua St / Polygon Rd
    ST HELIERS

    MAP: http://www.eventfinda.co.nz/venue/auckland-tamaki-ex-services-hall

    Many citizens and residents across the Auckland region are deeply concerned about proposed zoning changes that may lead to non-notified multi-story developments, in which they will potentially have no say, but will potentially have a huge impact on their lives and immediate environment.

    Has lawful ‘due process’ been followed regarding the Auckland ‘Spatial Plan’ and subsequent amendments?

    Were the Auckland population growth projections which spawned legislation such as that for the ‘Special Housing Areas’ (SHAs), lawfully and evidentially based?

    Will proposed changes to the RMA make things worse?

    Groups and concerned citizens who want to meet to discuss these issues, and co-ordinate ideas and action to help stop the Auckland region effectively becoming a ‘dictatorship for developers’, are most welcome to attend.

    Meeting convened by Penny Bright, assisted by fellow concerned citizens.

    • Ad 20.1

      So what changes to Auckland’s proposed Unitary Plan would you instigate Penny?

      Are you for or against the proposed changes to the RMA that are going before the House, which enable huge numbers more activities to be non-notified?

      Couple of easy ones for you, since you’re holding a public meeting on the subject.

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