Open Mike 11/06/2018

138 comments on “Open Mike 11/06/2018 ”

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1. Ffloyd 1

   11 June 2018 at 7:35 am

   First up with Guyon. Simon with a plethora of negative comments against Labour. No wonder people still think nats in charge.
   • Ed 1.1

     11 June 2018 at 7:42 am

     I no longer listen to Morning Report.
     Espiner is another paid puppet and a collaborator of the neoliberal regime.
     History will not be kind to such traitors.
     • solkta 1.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 7:49 am

       Are ya going to kill him once you have your revolution?
       • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 8:52 am

         I could imagine Ed being the type to encourage dissent and protest, from the sidelines of course and not actually participating in it himself
         • Gosman 1.1.1.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 9:35 am

           What I find doubly hilarious is that they have a State controlled Public broadcaster and it is still not enough for some lefties. I am sure these people won’t be happy until they have a state appointed editorial board which will review the days output to ensure no “political bias” is present.
           • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1.1.1.1

             11 June 2018 at 9:43 am

             I’ve long thought that if people on the left and right are complaining about media then the media are probably doing what they ought to be doing
           • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1.2

             11 June 2018 at 10:58 am

             @Gosman
             You would have to go back about 80 years to find exactly that situation in New Zealand.
             The State had taken control of all the radio stations once the Labour Government came to power in 1935. In the late 1930s the radio news bulletin was written in the PMs office and had to be broadcast exactly as it was written.

             “In 1937 Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage set up an Official News Service, under which all radio news bulletins were to be compiled and issued from the Prime Minister’s Department. Radio news only became largely independent of political control with the establishment of the New Zealand Broadcasting Corporation (NZBC) in 1962.”
             https://teara.govt.nz/en/media-and-politics/print

             Those were the days, my friend. Don’t you think that the current lot would like to do exactly the same thing again?
             Cleangreen at 1.1.2 just below certainly seems to think so.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               11 June 2018 at 11:10 am

               I know we joke about it but that sounds like something Stalin and *nope not going to say it* would have been proud of
             • dukeofurl …

               11 June 2018 at 12:08 pm

               The political control of radio stations existed before labour won in 1935

               “On the night of 24 November 1935, radio engineers employed by the Post and Telegraph Department deliberately jammed a popular religious programme by Colin Scrimgeour, commonly known as ‘Uncle Scrim’, just as he started to talk about the upcoming election. The engineers had been instructed to do so by their superior, on the grounds that Scrimgeour was likely to urge his listeners to vote for Labour…

               same link as yours Alwyn

               Of course nationals influence in the major newspapers continued till the 90s
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 11 June 2018 at 1:34 pm

                 Of course nationals influence in the major newspapers continues as they’re owned by the corporations

                 FTFY
     • cleangreen 1.1.2

       11 June 2018 at 7:50 am

       Ed I agree withyou entirely.

       It apppears now that RNZ has now been ‘capured’ by the corporate interests entirely’ and is now a spin doctor for their own whim and to kill off the new Labour/NZF/Greens coalition.

       Labour needs to take control of this renigade public service media now before they suffer election defeat again.
       • Gosman 1.1.2.1

         11 June 2018 at 9:35 am

         How has it been captured by corporate interests and why is John Campbell still there if this was the case?
         • Puckish Rogue 1.1.2.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 9:44 am

           Obviously John Campbell isn’t left enough, mind you he is one of the one percent…
           • Gosman 1.1.2.1.1.1

             11 June 2018 at 9:52 am

             I wonder how left wing you would have to be to be acceptable to some people here. Are we talking John Pilger or merely Kim Hill level.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               11 June 2018 at 9:58 am

               What gets me is if you listen to some of the commentators on here (fortunately the minority) its almost as if they want NZ to be part of the USA, they want the proletariat to rise up and smash the capitalist state, they want NZ to break free from…what exactly

               Whereas if NZ really was like how they want or imagine it to be then benefits would be cut, there’d be virtually no state housing, hospitals would have no supplies etc etc

               I’d say its almost like rebels without a cause but more like rebels without a clue

               NZ is a great place to live and while, for some, its not so good its also a place where you can make something of yourself if you’re willing to apply yourself
               • DH …

                 11 June 2018 at 10:08 am

                 “NZ is a great place to live and while, for some, its not so good its also a place where you can make something of yourself if you’re willing to apply yourself”

                 If you really believe that I’d suggest you’re very much inwards looking. It can be a great place if you were born into a middle class household and wanted for nothing while you grew up. For those born on struggle street, not so much.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   11 June 2018 at 10:12 am

                   I was born into a working class family but yes i do admit to having the advantage of having two parents that loved me and tried to do their best for me

                   However I still, and will always, stand by the comment that NZ is one of the best places in the world to be born in
                   • DH …

                     11 June 2018 at 10:21 am

                     Best place for who? As a generalisation you could be right but that means little to those who don’t fit the profile.

                     Can also be said it’s one the best places to be born poor but that still doesn’t make it right.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 June 2018 at 10:51 am

                     The problem is you have the naive and gullible posters on here who actually believe that NZ is one of the worst places on earth because of what others post on here and then post absolutely ridiculous things like charging people with treason and vague implications like up against the wall

                     When Labour was in opposition it was all about how bad NZ was and how only Labour could fix it, you think in the 2020 Labour will still say how bad NZ is or did Labour somehow fix all the problems in three years

                     Nope it’ll be how good NZ is and any problems will be because of National

                     and yes I’m well aware National did it as well
                   • McFlock …

                     11 June 2018 at 12:16 pm

                     I think you’ll find most leftist commenters here haven’t been talking about how Labour will fix everything.

                     A few will hate Labour as tory splitters, no matter what, and actually prefer national governments in the theory that enough tory rule will lead to revolution (of whatever level of violence, depending on how their swaggering boasts measure up against their timidity and introspection).

                     Some view Labour as the least-worst option, a temporary slight respite between regressive national governments.

                     Some think the correct machination or whinge will turn Labour into a party that will just wipe the slate clean and rewrite all the laws for a socialist paradise.

                     Others, like me, tend to agree with Labour’s incrementalist approach, wary of whether it will continue but generally approving of the measures so far, and hopeful the Greens will keep pushing Labour left.

                     But I’m not sure even the most active Labour supporters here argue that Labour will solve everything, especially this term.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 June 2018 at 12:21 pm

                     “But I’m not sure even the most active Labour supporters here argue that Labour will solve everything, especially this term.”

                     I agree, its the “Labours not left enough” types that tend to say the most…interesting comments
                   • McFlock …

                     11 June 2018 at 12:47 pm

                     Nah. The ones who are so far into youtube channels that they end up supporting trump, putin, AND arguing that Labour are filthy tory swine. Those are the ones I wouldn’t be surprised reading about in the newspaper.

                     Your average revolutionary socialist becomes decidedly incrementalist as soon as they have a kid and a mortgage (one reason home ownership rates are an important measure of social stability, IMO).

                     The ones who can read the matrix as it scrolls by and never learned about playing well with others are the ones who can’t deal with the fact that people have different opinions, and it’s the degree of difference that means you can’t work with them (not the simple existence of a differing opinion).
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 June 2018 at 12:53 pm

                     Unfortunately there are as likely an equal number (if not more) of “passionate” conservatives to balance out the lefties
                   • McFlock …

                     11 June 2018 at 1:00 pm

                     lol occasionally they seem to end up being the same folks. Sigh.
                   • DH …

                     11 June 2018 at 1:57 pm

                     I don’t see that as a problem here PR. Every forum has its soapbox sopranos and you’ve been around long enought to realise they only speak for themselves.

                     At least on this site many attempt to walk in other people’s shoes. We may not always get it right, but we make the effort. The likes of Kiwiblog are inhabited by curled lip sneerers which doesn’t make it a pleasant place.
                   • Tamati Tautuhi …

                     11 June 2018 at 3:33 pm

                     If you are a low class brown person living in South Auckland with parents on the benefit or minimum wages it can sometimes be a different story ?
               • Gabby …

                 11 June 2018 at 5:31 pm

                 Just keepin’ it smug there puckers.
             • tc …

               11 June 2018 at 2:44 pm

               PR and Gos should get their own blog as they clearly have alot to say to each other whereas most of the others here DNFTT.
               • Tamati Tautuhi …

                 11 June 2018 at 6:05 pm

                 +100% I wish they would f off and set up their own blog as i have to scribe down the page to try to find some sensible comments, they have got more time and money than they have sense and now we have another clown come along Baby Gaga whoever the f he is ?
     • Jimmy 1.1.3

       11 June 2018 at 9:26 am

       You been huffing cheese burgers again Ed?
     • mauī 1.1.4

       11 June 2018 at 9:41 am

       Well said Ed. You have a troll trifecta already.
       • Tamati Tautuhi 1.1.4.1

         11 June 2018 at 3:36 pm

         Have we got the Troll Trifecta already today I wonder if we can get the Troll Pick Six today by 12.00am, we need to flush out babygaga and the rest of their cronies
     • AB 1.1.5

       11 June 2018 at 10:47 am

       Ed – you open yourself up to easy hits and RW trolling by making such OTT statements.
       Fact is:
       – Any ‘collaboration’ by Espiner is pretty much unconscious on his part and complex in its origins and manifestations
       – None of us knows what history will do to any of us. We live inside history.

       I am assuming you are genuine, but overwrought – rather than a caricature of a lefty intentionally designed to provide trolling opportunities to others
       • Puckish Rogue 1.1.5.1

         11 June 2018 at 11:23 am

         Just to follow on from this (I agree with you by the way) there are some posters on here that can actually convince me that maybe I could think of things in a slightly different way

         I won’t name their names so as not to embarrass them (*cough cough Kewa and Gobert Ruyton) but the way they can convince me is not by hyperbole and emotional arguments but by reason and logic and by focusing on single issue arguments

         But thats just me
       • Tamati Tautuhi 1.1.5.2

         11 June 2018 at 3:38 pm

         Espiner’s brain is very regimented and programmed he can not think laterally.
   • Incognito 1.2

     11 June 2018 at 7:43 am

     So, no different from the RWNJs here on TS where there hardly is a coherent comment in sight, just negativity and self-absorbed gibberish. That said, here on TS they don’t get away with it while the MSM feeds (on) the negativity of National politicians and their rowdy supporters.
     • Gosman 1.2.1

       11 June 2018 at 9:50 am

       A coherent comment such as the following do you mean?

       “Espiner is another paid puppet and a collaborator of the neoliberal regime.”
       • alwyn 1.2.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 12:17 pm

         I think that statement is completely coherent.
         It might be crazy but it is crazy in a coherent way.
         If you want something that is crazy in an incoherent way I would suggest an example such as this sentence.
         ” That said, here on TS they don’t get away with it while the MSM feeds (on) the negativity of National politicians and their rowdy supporters.”
         • Gosman 1.2.1.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 12:37 pm

           Point taken alwyn.

           It is hard to distinguish between crazy and incoherent comments from some lefties here.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1.1

             11 June 2018 at 1:55 pm

             The crucial difference is that the equivalent characters on the right are seen as Cabinet material. Collins, Bennett, etc etc, and we wait to see who will be your latest Capill or Titford.
             • Tamati Tautuhi …

               11 June 2018 at 3:41 pm

               A couple of mature kunikuni’s.
             • Stunned Mullet …

               11 June 2018 at 4:15 pm

               We’re Capill and/or Titford ever part of ‘mainstream’ political parties ?
               • Anne …

                 11 June 2018 at 4:34 pm

                 Clark Titman (not Titford) was a member of the National Party. It would be fair to say many Nats were not very happy about it. Those were the days of Keith Holyoake, Jack Marshall, Brian Talboys and others… mostly well regarded politicians across the board – if a little too conservative for my liking.

                 Capill was leader of the Christian Heritage Party which didn’t survive the scandal of course.
                 • alwyn …

                   11 June 2018 at 7:08 pm

                   What evidence do you have that he really was a member of the National Party?
                   It is of course quite possible. At the time the National Party had a membership of more than 250,000 I believe.
                   On the other hand why would any of the leaders care in the slightest about some low-level member?
                   • Anne …

                     12 June 2018 at 10:47 am

                     It appears I got the wrong Tit – man.
                     However to answer your questions… Clark Titman was very much a member of the National Party. He lived on the North Shore and made a name for himself as a right wing agitator. He was very pro the Vietnam War – among other things – and his somewhat extreme behaviour were sometimes embarrassing for National. Iirc, he was eventually disbarred form National events and meetings.
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 11 June 2018 at 4:45 pm

                 Did someone say Ed and Cleangreen are “mainstream”?
                 • Stunned Mullet …

                   11 June 2018 at 7:06 pm

                   ah I see ..you’re just being your usual disingenuous cuntish self.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     11 June 2018 at 7:31 pm

                     Chill out Mr. Angry. Gosman was holding Ed and C/G up as “crazy and incoherent lefties”. If the Left has to answer for them, the Right has to own Capill and Titford. Nothing disingenuous in that.
                 • alwyn …

                   11 June 2018 at 7:12 pm

                   If you compare them with the current Green MPs they are certainly mainstream by New Zealand standards.
                   The MPs on the other hand would be some brackish little creek.
             • alwyn …

               11 June 2018 at 7:00 pm

               Did you mean Allan Titford or that Titman character Anne mentions?
               I fail to see that either of them had anything to do with the National Party as Anne claims however.
               Titman seems to have been harmless whereas Titford seems to be an A-grade nut.
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 11 June 2018 at 7:33 pm

                 I didn’t say they were National Party any more than Gosman is saying Ed and C/G are Labour.
                 • alwyn …

                   11 June 2018 at 8:55 pm

                   And I never said that you claimed they were National.
                   I said that Anne had claimed it, at least about Titman.
                   If you look at what I said it was “as Anne claims however.”.
                   I put this comment to you because I was curious about who you meant. Was it Allan Titford or Clark Titman?
                   Or someone else altogether?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     11 June 2018 at 10:22 pm

                     Titford.
                   • alwyn …

                     12 June 2018 at 12:43 am

                     Thank you for clarifying it..
                     I think my description of him stands.
                     Where do those people come from, and how do they get like that?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     12 June 2018 at 5:40 am

                     Where do those people come from, and how do they get like that?

                     Good question. The brain adapts to dishonesty via the amygdala, which also has a vital role in racism. Low intelligence is also a factor, but so are authoritarian tendencies and limited exposure to “out-groups”. Our peers are our “primary socialisers” (not our parents, apparently).

                     Whether these are the defining characteristics of Titford’s pathology is another thing entirely. Is it a more extreme example of the behaviour displayed by Don Brash, or people who vote for the abolition of the Māori seats and the “Iwi/Kiwi” hate speech? Toxic masculinity also appears to be a factor, and there’s plenty of that around.
         • Incognito 1.2.1.1.2

           11 June 2018 at 9:24 pm

           Oops! Alwyn’s got away, again.

           Alwyn, you’re the exception that proves the rule, I have to give you that.
       • Incognito 1.2.1.2

         11 June 2018 at 9:20 pm

         Ah! The Left-does-it-too ironclad defence of RWNJs when they are lost for words and have no better comeback.
   • DH 1.3

     11 June 2018 at 10:47 am

     It is interesting looking back at National’s ‘honeymoon’. The media fawned over John Key for years, they had their heads so far up Key’s arse at the Herald they probably had their board meetings there. It took a very long time for the media to see through him…. some never did.
2. cleangreen 2

   11 June 2018 at 7:43 am

   Finally the first train leaves Napier under the labour/NZF regional funding boost after National had closed the line following a storm and caused public anger over a six year lack of rail services.

   The train left for Wairoa in a bid to restore the Napier/Gisborne regional rail service on 8th June 2018.

   Full marks to the new labour/NZF/Greens coalition efforts here was felt by all residents.

   We had a busy few days in Napier last week.
   On Wednesday, we made our final submission to the NCC Long Term Plan, and then we attended the opening ceremony for the rail line north.
   We were well received by Peter Reidy who referred to the tenacity of Alan (Dick) and Ken that set the ball rolling.
   Previously, Alan had challenged Peter Reidy to drive the road and that gave him an understanding of the importance of taking trucks off the road.
   Shane Jones said he had not given up on the Gisborne end of the line, so Ken gave him a copy of the full page ad in the GH to remind him of the business potential.
   They did a really good job using the event for maximum media coverage on the rail line.
   HB Today also did an article on our submission, and neatly tied it in with increasing rail would lower the heavy traffic problem.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12065344

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=12065532
   • Ed 2.1

     11 June 2018 at 7:44 am

     Good news.
   • AsleepWhileWalking 2.2

     11 June 2018 at 9:26 am

     Awwsome.
   • gsays 2.3

     11 June 2018 at 11:18 am

     Great news.
     I am sure you are happy with this step in the right direction.
   • patricia bremner 2.4

     11 June 2018 at 12:10 pm

     Brilliant.
3. DH 3

   11 June 2018 at 9:46 am

   Good to see this might get addressed….

   “Refund over ‘premium’ aged-care room: ‘Everybody should look at their contracts’ ”
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12066107

   I encountered this when looking for a home for an aged relative. DHB contracted rest homes all have a maximum price they can charge, it’s negotiated as a collective agreeement annually. It’s around $1100 per week at the moment for rest home care.

   They get around this by charging for ‘extras’ such as ensuites and try to create an environment where the extras are the norm. I met ensuite rates of $15-30 per day and when one considers ensuite is just a fancy name for your own bathroom $105-$210 a week for a shitter and shower is a little over the top.
4. Antoine 4

   11 June 2018 at 10:28 am

   Sanity prevails on 3 strikes: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104608068/governments-three-strikes-repeal-killed-by-nz-first

   A.
   • Puckish Rogue 4.1

     11 June 2018 at 11:06 am

     It is very good and as a bonus I’m also hoping it will give the Greens the go ahead to oppose Winstons waka bill

     Mind you this issue needs to be sorted:

     ‘So far, no courts had used the full power of the law, to sentence offenders on their third strike to the maximum sentence without the chance of parole.’
     • dukeofurl 4.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 12:16 pm

       labour-greens agreement ‘fine print’ limits what Greens can do on specific items in Labour -NZ First agreement, waka jumping being a specific item
       • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 12:22 pm

         Shows just how “politically naive” (dumb) the Greens were, it is never, ever a good idea to sign anything without reading it first
         • dukeofurl 4.1.1.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 1:04 pm

           The wording is not all that direct, negotiate in good faith or something.

           What that means no me, is no blanket refusals but a deal can be made.

           What is more important in the scheme of things, some thing like the ‘slowdown’ in oil and gas drilling or a waka jumping legislation.

           NZ First has had particular problems in the waka jumping area as its a small party and a few Mps jumping could change the result of the election.
           Its starting to occur in german states too, something that was once unthinkable

           If you want dumb political thinking we can show you the meth testing debacle which national ministers were in the thick off.
           Another was the decision back in 2012 NOT to build a replacement for the manawatu gorge highway.
   • james 4.2

     11 June 2018 at 11:12 am

     Fantastic news made my day.

     Nice to see this Government refusing to repeal this sensible law. Keep people like that behind bars.

     Perhaps NZFirst cared more about the “collateral damage” than Little did.

     Should this have the greens oppose the Waka jumping bill – even better.
     • Psych nurse 4.2.1

       11 June 2018 at 2:01 pm

       Lets extend this policy to white collar crime and then see who squeels most.
       • james 4.2.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 2:13 pm

         Im ok with that also.
       • Gosman 4.2.1.2

         11 June 2018 at 4:50 pm

         Yep. I’m cool with this also. Are you going to lead the charge to extend the Three strikes law PN?
       • Antoine 4.2.1.3

         11 June 2018 at 9:05 pm

         > Lets extend this policy to white collar crime and then see who squeels most.

         Bring it on!

         A.
   • Baba Yaga 4.3

     11 June 2018 at 11:27 am

     Winnie was getting spooked by the polls, the thought of seeing Farrar’s list of 2 strikers out on the streets, and the open letter in today’s Herald. You can criticise Peters for a lot of things, but stupid he is not.
   • Ad 4.4

     11 June 2018 at 12:04 pm

     New Zealand First should have the guts to front this one.

     Downside is of course more prisons, unless the Minister of Justice has some outstanding programmes to divert them.

     Upside is Labour will continue to suck NZFirst’s vote until they are a husk.
     So in 2020 we will have a Labour-Green coalition.
     • dukeofurl 4.4.1

       11 June 2018 at 12:10 pm

       No its NOT more prisons.

       There is only 7 or 8 people per year getting second strikes, even less on a 3rd

       Its the bail changes that seem to be far more punitive that are locking up hundreds more
       • Ad 4.4.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 1:02 pm

         Happy to stand corrected.
     • Tamati Tautuhi 4.4.2

       11 June 2018 at 3:46 pm

       Hope he doesn’t start banging on about abolishing the Maori seats when he becomes PM and he focuses on the big picture, no doubt the MSM will be laying some traps for him.
     • james 4.4.3

       11 June 2018 at 4:20 pm

       “So in 2020 we will have a Labour-Green coalition”

       With the greens polling – I wouldn’t make a large bet on that. Long may Labour kill them off as well.
   • Pat 4.5

     11 June 2018 at 12:36 pm

     Sanity?…or orchestrated political theatre
     • Antoine 4.5.1

       11 June 2018 at 12:47 pm

       Interesting theory! Hadn’t thought of that

       A.
       • Puckish Rogue 4.5.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 1:04 pm

         Little takes a hit, NZFirst look strong and take some votes of National maybe?
   • Draco T Bastard 4.6

     11 June 2018 at 1:47 pm

     No, that’s actually insanity prevailing.

     Of course, NZ1st may support the removal of the Three Strikes law:

     NZ First leader Winston Peters said the party would reveal its long-term position on three-strikes following its caucus meeting on Tuesday.

     “The caucus looks forward to working with him on achieving a balanced reform package,” Peters said.

     NZ First said it did not support Little’s initial proposal to repeal the law as part of a modest package of changes to the criminal justice system, which were due to go to Cabinet for consideration on Monday.

     But Peters was yet to say whether the party would back a repeal further down the line, when Little put forward widespread proposed reforms following the establishment of an advisory group, and a summit later in the year.

     So, yeah, we will most likely see the removal later. It just seems to be NZ1st waiting to do the full package rather than doing it piece meal. They do have a point in that doing the full package will most likely result in better overall legislation but leaving the Three Strikes as is is a bad idea.
     • Antoine 4.6.1

       11 June 2018 at 9:07 pm

       I think your radar is off DTB. This seems to me like Peters saying ‘tough on crime stays on my watch’

       A.
       • Incognito 4.6.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 10:08 pm

         To me it sounds like this:

         You do the time, you’ll do another crime.
   • AB 4.7

     11 June 2018 at 2:00 pm

     “Sanity prevails on 3 strikes”
     Well, it’s politically sane but criminologically insane.
     We just have to accept that the vindictiveness of Kiwis makes doing the right thing politically impossible. We aren’t prepared to leave it to the judge’s discretion but want maximum vengeance extracted even if it’s disproportionate.
     Have to say I am baffled by this aspect of our national psyche – agreeable enough on the surface, but some dark sh*t going on underneath.
     When this sort of crap goes on, I give up on politics for a while and work in the garden or go for a walk (easy for me as I’m not the one taking the hit).
5. ObserverTokoroa 5

   11 June 2018 at 12:19 pm

   The Capitalists

   It would be very kind of the Capitalists if they would explain why more and more money goes to fewer and fewer people under the Capitalist Cult.

   I have asked and asked this question but it produces no response from the little chaps on here that hate the people who do the real work in Aotearoa.

   Before the Capitalist Cult here got so completely selfish and glutunous, people used to be able to buy a non leaky non mouldy 3 bedroom home on a single salary. But the Gosman and James lot has done away with that.

   Why ?

   What a dreadful Cult they are.
   • Gosman 5.1

     11 June 2018 at 1:33 pm

     Your analysis is wrong. More and more money is not going to fewer and fewer people.

     As for housing costs, that is due to not enough land being made available for new house builds.
     • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 1:51 pm

       Your analysis is wrong. More and more money is not going to fewer and fewer people.

       Yes it is.
       • Gosman 5.1.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 2:05 pm

         Ummm… did you follow the links to the data on that post you linked to? That also backs up my view that nothing much has changed overall for the past 20 years. LIS (which is what you are referencing essentially) is about the same as it was 20 years ago. It certainly hasn’t got a lot worse. Once again thanks for providing info that backs MY view up. 🙂
         • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 2:17 pm

           LIS (which is what you are referencing essentially) is about the same as it was 20 years ago. It certainly hasn’t got a lot worse.

           The LIS dropping from 65% to 55% is it getting a lot worse with it showing, quite clearly, that more and more of the money is going to fewer and fewer people.
           • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1.1

             11 June 2018 at 2:24 pm

             No the LIS seems to have stabilised around the 55 to 60% mark over the past 20 years. It certainly isn’t moving down on a sustained basis which is what you generally bang on about Draco.
             • dukeofurl …

               11 June 2018 at 3:38 pm

               https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/307458/10-percent-richest-kiwis-own-60-percent-of-nz's-wealth
               Point proven
               ‘In its latest survey of household wealth, Statistics New Zealand found the country’s richest individuals – those in the top 10 percent – held 60 percent of all wealth by the end of July 2015. Between 2003 and 2010, those individuals had held 55 percent.”

               Look back to the 1980s and see what the numbers were ?
               • Gosman …

                 11 June 2018 at 3:45 pm

                 I’m not comparing it to the 1980’s

                 As that article states the amount has not altered significantly over the recent past.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   11 June 2018 at 5:34 pm

                   I’m not comparing it to the 1980’s

                   Of course your not. That would prove that you’re lying by picking dates that almost make it look like what’s happening isn’t happening.

                   As the people at the top own more they have more of the income. That’s how capitalism works. That’s why it always creates poverty and eventually collapses society.

                   Society simply cannot work where a few people own everything.
6. alwyn 6

   11 June 2018 at 12:29 pm

   For some really good news today.
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/104583866/wellington-regions-transmission-gully-project-hits-halfway-mark
   We’ve only been waiting for about 55 years.
   I’ll bet all the Wellington based Labour MPs will be pressuring the NZTA to schedule an opening ceremony before the 2020 election, regardless of the point the construction has reached, so that they can claim how the building the road was all due to their efforts and how wonderful they all are.

   Those with good memories will of course be saying
   “Thank you, Stephen Joyce”.
   • dukeofurl 6.1

     11 June 2018 at 12:35 pm

     Joyce and English had an ‘early opening’ for the Waterview Tunnels in spite of the project getting its go ahead in 2008 before the election.
     Joyce famously pulled the plug on ‘tunnels’ and forced them to go back to trenches and bridges before sanity prevailed and the Construction companies said it would consume all of NZs construction resources, so back to tunnels all the way it was but bigger and more expensive.
     • alwyn 6.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 4:19 pm

       “Joyce and English had an ‘early opening’ for the Waterview Tunnels”.
       Such a thing doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. They were politicians after all.

       There is a general rule for politicians.
       Take total credit for everything that is popular, even if it was all the work of your opponents.
       Blame your opponents for anything unpopular, even if they had nothing to do with it.

       I admit that I have never commented on the subject of the Waterview Tunnel. My total knowledge of the thing is that it is in Auckland. I think it is South of the Bridge and North of the Airport. I have no idea at all what road it is on or where that road goes. To a resident of Wellington it is irrelevant.

       I have a distinct interest in the road that runs North from Wellington though. I only hope that they continue the work up to Levin. I travel that route you see. The Kapiti Expressway, which is finished, is great.
   • Gosman 6.2

     11 June 2018 at 12:44 pm

     I remember debating people here back in 2008 or 2009 where the arguments for the majority was all anti-Transmission gully. So very funny.

     Edit: Just had a look. It was 2009 and it was you and I against the mob once again alwyn 🙂
     • Puckish Rogue 6.2.1

       11 June 2018 at 12:59 pm

       This is probably the easiest youtube link ever

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zDM8XakVpU
       • alwyn 6.2.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 4:27 pm

         An excellent choice.
         I must advise you though that I am taller and much better looking than Arnold. Better teeth too.
         The muscular frame is about right though. Of course I never used steroids.
         I should note that my full name is “Alwyn Modest XXXXXX”.
     • dukeofurl 6.2.2

       11 June 2018 at 1:10 pm

       Do the residents know how much the tolls will be.
       And will they find a monster traffic jam once they arrive at the existing SH1 motorway just before Tawa ?

       Transmission Gully is supposed to be more earthquake proof than the existing road, but of course the gully it travels up is an existing fault line and lots of buildings that were built under new earthquake codes have been found to be a low standard. Steep slopes are almost impossible to engineer against major earthquakes
   • Ad 6.3

     11 June 2018 at 1:04 pm

     It’s a pretty awesome flythrough for a halfway mark.
   • Incognito 6.4

     11 June 2018 at 9:30 pm

     Your memory is not serving you well, Alwyn, because you don’t even know whom to thank!

     I’ll give you a little homework assignment so that you can better yourself. BTW, how are the remedial lessons going?

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Joyce
7. Ad 7

   11 June 2018 at 1:01 pm

   Seems like the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation is setting up as a super-regional alternative to the G7’s current shambles:

   http://www.dw.com/en/as-g7-argues-russias-vladimir-putin-and-chinas-xi-jinping-show-sco-friendship/a-44148676
8. adam 8

   11 June 2018 at 1:14 pm

   Total “hate in” today on the standard. So much fun. Good to see apologist joining in the fun as well, can always trust the so called moderate liberals to join the Tories.
   • Gosman 8.1

     11 June 2018 at 1:31 pm

     Splitters!
     • adam 8.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 1:40 pm

       Thus spoke the bat shit loony right.
9. OnceWasTim 9

   11 June 2018 at 2:05 pm

   I imagine you’re pissing yourself with laughter Goz.
   We have a state (i.e. tex payer FUNDED) public broadcaster – albeit with one or two stacked hack appointees (going forward). The keyword ‘service’ that is increasingly being lost amid the neoliberal religion/dogma/faith
   Then, as an alternative, people in the ‘non-state’ private sector who profess an alternate view. There, we have corporate funded media (albeit, at times with financial bailouts from Tex Payer – because, well you know…..business is deserving of welfare, whereas taxpayer-funded public beneficiaries are undeserving – even though they’re providing the filthy mullah).
   Gatekeepers in both. Both with agendas
   Feel free to laugh your arse off. In both cases, we’ve lost the ability to differentiate between a Public and its interests, (and the financial imperatives of a ‘State’ that professes to represent that public), and the Corporation which only has a financial interest in providing a return to their shareholders and who will do whatever to protect it.
   Shame when it all goes tits up eh?
   And when it does, do we give any credibility to the corporate interest(s), or to an alternative that at the very least provides up with an opportunity once in a while to tell them to fuck off.
   Btw, aren’t you due to clock off about now?

   In response to Gos somewhere above – again, one of those little ‘bugs’
   • Gosman 9.1

     11 June 2018 at 2:11 pm

     tl;dr

     Something, something, the media is biased against my side. Boo hoo.
     • alwyn 9.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 4:32 pm

       I think that would have been an excellent example to have used in my comment at 1.2.1.1 just above.
     • OnceWasTim 9.1.2

       11 June 2018 at 6:27 pm

       “tl;dr”

       I’ll bet! 18 or so lines of text.
10. rod 10

    11 June 2018 at 4:17 pm

    National on a roll, according to Audrey Young. I agree. Downwards.
    • james 10.1

      11 June 2018 at 4:25 pm

      Here is the link for you.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068077

      Read it again – Might change your view.
      • Gabby 10.1.1

        11 June 2018 at 5:40 pm

        Is that a hibbled link jimbo?
      • McFlock 10.1.2

        11 June 2018 at 6:00 pm

        Not really.
        She managed to forget the methmyth bullshit squarely landing at the nats’ door, and drawn out by collins.

        And Bolger heading up the Fair Pay Agreement working group.

        But if winning a safe seat with a much reduced majority gets them “fizzing”, the day that side of the House do something exceptional they’ll be a major explosive hazard.
    • Tamati Tautuhi 10.2

      11 June 2018 at 6:08 pm

      Problem AY actually believes her own B/S.
      • OnceWasTim 10.2.1

        11 June 2018 at 6:43 pm

        They all do @TT. I made the mistake of watching Max Headroom live from Singapore, with Corin Dann as a sidekick-cum-expert-sage on ONE News. You know…. “Your News” or whatever it is these days. Already, after a couple of days, apparently they’re already also experts in the local surroundings.
        May I say though, (for the celebrity pages) that Max Headroom is looking incredibly more silver-haired these days, and perhaps even a little gaunt. And, and, and, and!! Corin’s suit was looking a little rumpled. In fact it looked eggsekly like the one he was wearing yesterday. Ew!
        Back to the sensible Wendy’s in the studio for some reality and some other news.

        Btw @TT- do you know if Max Headroom and Corin are dressed by Barkers or Hallensteins.
        I noticed Max had a rather gorgeous looking fitted white shirt going forward.
        I did rather like the way he presented himself in the style of the BBC reporters that fronted overnight as well. Well done Max!
    • cleangreen 10.3

      11 June 2018 at 6:31 pm

      100% rod.

      We all have memories of nine bitter miserable years of total hardsjhip for 99% while the one percent enriched themselves on the hardship of the poor and defenceless.

      Now a better future of fairness awaits as the share of our wealth is being redistributed amongst us all.

      I have good feelings life now has some promise and hope.
      • solkta 10.3.1

        11 June 2018 at 7:35 pm

        We all have memories of nine bitter miserable years of total hardsjhip for 99%

        Whatever drugs you are on you should definitely take less.
        • cleangreen 10.3.1.1

          12 June 2018 at 4:28 am

          solkta,

          you are enjoying the ‘National Party ilussion of better times for all’ it appears.

          you appear to suffer from blindness, and was insulated from reality!!!!!!

          When pictures of people being evicted from their homes while those state house s were given for peanuts to national’s supporting mates to make a killing on the speculative property market and left those families homless and shivering to death in abandoned cars or on streets so did you care?

          I did seriously feel very sad to see the carnage National mettered out on the poor & sick and older folk suffering along with the homeless.
          • solkta 10.3.1.1.1

            12 June 2018 at 7:54 am

            No i am not enjoying any nat illusions, and i do care a lot for people, just laughing at the idiotic stuff you write. “Total hardship” for “99%”. No, there is just nothing but derision that i can offer in response.
11. Exkiwiforces 11

    11 June 2018 at 5:01 pm

    This article from the Australia ABC News website might of interest for those why it’s been wetter than usual in parts of NZ aka West Coast of both Islands and parts of the Deep South. As all the Australian autumn rains aren’t hitting its usual areas in mainland Australia, but have moved further Sth an usual hitting parts of Tassie, Southern Victoria and of course NZ.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-11/drought-how-bad-is-it-and-why-has-it-been-so-dry/9826130

    It appears this could be an ongoing trend in the longer term. So it might be a wise move to buy some red bands, a supercat, a boat or a hovercraft.

    It would interesting to see what Robert’s view all anyone else that’s going to impacted by the this weather trend?
12. Peter 12

    11 June 2018 at 5:34 pm

    Social Housing

    Mass produced apartments in California

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/business/economy/modular-housing.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fbusiness&action=click&contentCollection=business&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=11&pgtype=sectionfront
13. Morrissey 13

    11 June 2018 at 5:59 pm

    Propagandists Not Journalists
    Exhibit 2: HERBERT BUCHSBAUM of the New York Times

    It surely does not surprise that the Times provides yeoman’s service for Israeli hasbara. Indeed, one reads Times coverage not to be better informed but from quaint curiosity: How will it filter the damning facts to make them more palatable to its target audience on the Upper East Side?

    What happened is not in doubt. As the young woman, dressed in her white medical uniform and with her hands raised in the air, approached an injured protester, she was shot dead by an Israeli sniper.

    A few days later, Israeli hasbara released a video purporting to show that al-Najjar was a Hamas dupe and Hamas human shield. The video contained a clip from a past interview in which she is quoted as saying: “I am here on the front line and I act as a human shield.” In fact, the Israeli video falsified al-Najjar’s words. Her actual statement was: “I’m acting as a human rescue shield to protect the injured inside the armistice line.”

    If there was a news story here, it should have been headlined, “Israel Releases Doctored Video to Justify Murder of Gaza Paramedic.”

    But Times reporter Herbert Buchsbaum instead deployed the Israeli video to sow doubt on the incontrovertible facts (“Israeli Video Portrays Medic Killed in Gaza as Hamas Tool,” 7 June). Even as it shocks and disgusts, still, this second assassination of Razan al-Najjar fits the standard Times template….

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/06/10/the-new-york-times-second-assassination-of-razan-at-najjar/

    Propagandists Not Journalists is compiled by Hector Stoop and presented by Morrissey Breen, for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

    See also….
    Exhibit 1: ISABEL KERSHNER
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-06-2018/#comment-1491892
14. Tamati Tautuhi 14

    11 June 2018 at 11:18 pm

    11/06/2018 Troll Pick Six on The Standard

    I think I have got the first 5 x Legs of the Troll Pick Six today;

    Baby Gaga
    Puckish Rogue
    Gosman
    James
    Alwyn

    One leg to go have we had any other trolls today ?
    • rod 14.1

      12 June 2018 at 5:03 pm

      Where is The Chairman when you need him.
15. cleangreen 15

    12 June 2018 at 4:29 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/103954272/Budget-2018-No-payday-yet-for-RNZ-from-Labour-Budget

    quote from this article above;

    “A promised funding boost for RNZ was the centrepiece of Labour’s broadcasting policy during last year’s election, but it will have to wait.
    RNZ will have to wait longer to find out whether it will get a funding boost and how much that will be.
    However, Broadcasting Minister Clare Curran said the Government was still committed to increasing annual funding for public media by at least $38 million during its first term.
    The Government disappointed lobby group Better Public Media by setting aside only $15m in the Budget this year to pay for initiatives “to support the contribution of public media to an informed democracy”.
    Curran said it had not been possible for the Government to do everything it wanted in one budget.
    A decision is expected within weeks on how much of the $15m might go to RNZ, and how much might be allocated to other media companies for other initiatives through NZ On Air.”

    Clare Curran needs to be removed now from her Broadcasting portfolio as she is irresponsible and is damaging the government now.

    Curran has harmed labour, for all the loss of labour policy of presenting a fair free independent platform for the public to hear and respond to ant issues yet as the other media portals are not giving us public any coverage on any TV networks and only region newspapers are giving us any coverage but RNZ or no other TV networks are giving us our public voice so far in the first year of the new government operation of the media.

    Labour have truly missed the chance to give us a fair free independent news and current affairs public media yet so their issues are not being aired in a fair manner still because RNZ is run by National and the rest of the media are owned by corporations so labour have not given us their promised “fair, free independent public media as they promised last year.

    RNZ is effectively “a propaganda machine for the national Party” and has their own CEO Paul Thompson in 2013 who is still running this publicly funded and biased media portal.

    https://www.noted.co.nz/money/business/paul-thompson-radio-head/
    • Tamati Tautuhi 15.1

      12 June 2018 at 7:53 am

      Curran was a fool playing “secret squirell stuff” with the maori lady from RNZ, she is obviously not very street smart or commercially orientated ?

      National will chew her up and spit her out.
    • solkta 15.2

      12 June 2018 at 8:08 am

      So clever how they have returned John Campbell as a ruse.
16. Eco Maori 16

    12 June 2018 at 7:09 am

    Good morning Newshub the trump scenario show me is its not the media and move and sport stars who can win a election.
    Its the common people of America who are sick and tired of being ripped off so if anyone offers something different and sturs up the racial pot you get trump.
    In America if a common uninsured person break there leg there goes $20.000
    You’re stuffed and scenario like that are happening all over America.
    So the big picture is look after all the people not just the wealthy or you are going to end up in the shit.
    Our meat consumption is already going down because its too expensive now the reason ECO MAORI is against this no meat campaign is because I see it as a attack by stealth on our small family farms by big businesses on the small family farm we have a lot of family owned farms in Aotearoa big businesses just throw money at different ainty meat campaigns and walla everyone is against protein.
    I see your m8 whos joyces m8 thinks he can out wit ECO MAORI in the end he will be crying under his bed.
    With the 3 strike fail this show me that people in the justice system will do anything to get there way even cheat just like national releaseing information just before a vote on the law changes.
    Ka kite ano
17. Eco Maori 17

    12 June 2018 at 8:21 am

    Here we go the sandflys are not perfect link below.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068520

    And people wonder why Some Maori behave badly its because we are being treated like this.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068520

    ECO MAORI does not even have to hear the racist people words to know what they are thinking and saying.
    Ka kite ano
18. eco maori 18

    12 June 2018 at 6:54 pm

    There you go some idiot trying to make a mauna out of a mile hill everyone new months ago that Winston Peters was suing people for breaches to his privacy. Why not sue the state services commissioner just because he has that job doesn’t mean he is squeaky clean far from it ECO MAORI say Ana to kai. I see the big man of basketball has similar views on some very good people of Papatuanukue Ka pai
    Ka kite ano P.S Jacinda Winston will be fine he has a safe pair of hands.

    Link below

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/104656566/with-winston-peters-in-charge-it-seems-everything-could-be-up-for-grabs
19. Eco Maori 19

    12 June 2018 at 7:06 pm

    The sandflys are still wasting their time on ECO MAORI it’s so easy to read all there move that’s for the cup tool belt and the power segestion of the hand man van idiots subliminal messageing only works on – – – – – -.
    Look like red head lost his marbles last week Ana to kai tangata Ka kite ano
20. Eco Maori 20

    12 June 2018 at 7:32 pm

    I see that trump has done the right thing with North Korea Ka pai.
    I no that a lot of – – – drivers know of ECO MAORI most of use are tangata whenua ki kaha tangata now I know that the sandflys are never going to leave ECO MAORI alone thats the price I have to pay to inform the people about the corruption of our state services so be it at least the crime rate is going down
    As I expected. I still have to thank the Honourable Winston Peters for Crowning Jacinda and forming a Labour lead coalition government many thanks Winston. Enjoy your time as Prime Minister if our society was not so racist it would have happened years ago
    Ka kite ano
21. Eco Maori 21

    12 June 2018 at 7:56 pm

    This story backs up my words on it only takes 1 degree of change in tempture to kill a living organinasim. Link below

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/11/giant-african-baobab-trees-die-suddenly-after-thousands-of-years
    Ka kite ano
22. eco maori 22

    12 June 2018 at 9:40 pm

    There you go ECO MAORI m8 ring a ambulance to the Auckland port for asicid burnes and 1 hour later and no ambulance the sandflys interfacing muppets its no me that is burnt

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