Open Mike 11/08/2018

108 comments on “Open Mike 11/08/2018 ”

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1. Ed 1

   11 August 2018 at 6:58 am

   New Zealand’s left does need to remember the c words.
   Class and climate change.
   It should fight the economic and ecological battles, and stop prioritising identity politics.
   Has it the courage to fight the establishment and take down capitalism?
   • Ad 1.1

     11 August 2018 at 8:43 am

     The left in New Zealand is made up of a rainbow of identity politics.

     And we’re got where we are because of all of them, united, win elections.
     • Hongi Ika 1.1.1

       11 August 2018 at 4:42 pm

       …and the right are normally LRWNJ’s ?
       • Ad 1.1.1.1

         11 August 2018 at 4:54 pm

         Gives a damn.

         The left, the left in all its identities, are in power right now.

         And they are doing good, more good than we’ve see in nearly a decade.
         • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2018 at 9:57 pm

           The thread seems to be relatively sane to here. We have to keep our heads chaps and not get freaked out.
     • Stuart Munro 1.1.2

       11 August 2018 at 6:54 pm

       Identity politics is what we got instead of Labour fixing Rogergnomics.

       This allowed them to pretend to a different set of virtues, accommodate unreconstructed sellouts like Phil Goff, and call any critics racist, sexist or what have you.

       This is what allowed Labour to do things like extend the use of foreign slave fishermen indefinitely, instead of building a system that retained skilled New Zealanders.

       It’s much of the reason Labour spent nine years in the wilderness even while National were transparently not acting in the national interest, and it’s a big part of why most folk here lean more Green than Labour.
       • BM 1.1.2.1

         11 August 2018 at 6:58 pm

         Soft cock Millennials are such a drag on society.

         The current lot that is coming through, Generation Z is tremendous if only we could bypass the millennials, Soylent Green anyone?

         Fuck they suck.
         • SaveNZ 1.1.2.1.1

           11 August 2018 at 7:54 pm

           BM that seems a bit harsh, are you paraphrasing Judith?

           Weird it was the Millennials that they imported on mass into Auckland under the Natz. Then under the rules you can bring your 4 aged parents and your new partner. This is apparently to solve our superannuation issue.

           Apparently a 20yo millennial with a level 5 qualification in cooking who doesn’t have to speak English and working for a minimum wage at McDonalds trumped a 40 yo $300,000K senior IT developer with 20 years experience for immigration points under our dysfunction immigration rules.
           • BM 1.1.2.1.1.1

             11 August 2018 at 8:00 pm

             The millennials are the Frankenstein generation.
           • greywarshark 1.1.2.1.1.2

             11 August 2018 at 9:53 pm

             It’s those damn pigeons again. They were supposed to be checking out the various qualifications with their bright eyes, and then peck the right one and get a feed of grain. They got a few anomalies and some techhead replaced them and put in a computer sorting system. Now we’ve got real trouble.

             It’s those rude mechanicals who are all the problem. Fuck them.
         • Stuart Munro 1.1.2.1.2

           11 August 2018 at 9:00 pm

           Millennials haven’t made their political play yet. They’ll have their work cut out to do worse than their predecessors.
           • BM 1.1.2.1.2.1

             11 August 2018 at 9:03 pm

             I consider Millinelials a greater threat to the world than someone like Trump.

             Mentally they’re fucked up and very bitter about it, they will destroy the world or at the very least bring it to its knees
             • Stuart Munro …

               11 August 2018 at 9:07 pm

               Then you’re a fool.

               Millennials are relatively innocent.

               Trump is a sick joke.
             • gsays …

               11 August 2018 at 10:01 pm

               I hear your passion and am willing to predict you are a young boomer or a gen x.
               We, I am gen x, have moulded the millennials.

               Boomers in particular are the greatest beneficiaries of the neo lib reforms.
               Me first and the gimme gimmies.
               • joe90 …

                 11 August 2018 at 10:27 pm

                 Of course, the thousands of boomers and their families in my burg who endured the loss of livelihoods, savings, some, their homes, services and amenities, and witnessed the destructive depopulation of their community during a decade and more of radical change are the greatest beneficiaries of the neo lib reforms.

                 FFS.
                 • KJT …

                   11 August 2018 at 10:36 pm

                   Unfortunately the “Academic Left” only see the boomers who are like them. The ones who had tertiary education, continued good jobs and own Auckland houses.

                   They are blind to the many boomers that have been done over since 1984, with jobs lost to “restructuring”, savings lost to finance company crashes, and houses lost when they lost their jobs.

                   Now heading into retirement with few assets and large mortgages. Trying to help their kids, with their housing at the same time.
                 • gsays …

                   11 August 2018 at 11:15 pm

                   Yep fair call Joe.

                   I had just finished a very busy, long day in an extremely tense kitchen.
                   That was a reminder to me to not post with a head of steam.
       • Ad 1.1.2.2

         11 August 2018 at 7:26 pm

         The activists tried a reconstructed anti-Rogernomics Labour – it was Jim Anderton’s alliance. In 2005 it got 1% of the vote. After a term in government it exploded in a pride of prancing sparkle ponies.

         But sure, keep going on the slave pirate theory. I like that one a-Hrrrrrrrr
         • Stuart Munro 1.1.2.2.1

           11 August 2018 at 8:58 pm

           Yeah we know you like it – you supported it for thirty years.

           Now we’ve got cheap foreign labour onshore on the same model. Victory!

           For the hollow creatures that once were Labour.
         • Stuart Munro 1.1.2.2.2

           11 August 2018 at 9:37 pm

           Laugh it up.

           Jamie and Tony and Snow will not laugh with you, they’re dead.

           You pissed their jobs away, and they killed themselves.

           900 work permits a year – guess someone’s cleaning up there.

           Wonder if Labour gets a backhander.
       • SaveNZ 1.1.2.3

         11 August 2018 at 7:45 pm

         +1 Stuart Munro
   • solkta 1.2

     11 August 2018 at 9:01 am

     So don’t you care about people?
   • marty mars 1.3

     11 August 2018 at 9:19 am

     describe yourself just using ‘class’

     now describe yourself via your ‘identity’

     see the difference?
     • Incognito 1.3.1

       11 August 2018 at 9:27 am

       There’s no “i” in class?
       • marty mars 1.3.1.1

         11 August 2018 at 9:42 am

         yeeeessssss learning now you are young padawan
       • McFlock 1.3.1.2

         11 August 2018 at 2:49 pm

         lol there’s no “u” or “we” or even “body”, either.

         But there is one “ass” as part of a slightly larger “lass”.
         • marty mars 1.3.1.2.1

           11 August 2018 at 5:47 pm

           There is an entity in identity and an ‘I’ denting another.
           • greywarshark 1.3.1.2.1.1

             11 August 2018 at 7:17 pm

             Oooh you’re on a roll here.

             And is 2d Shrewsbury his words – (or does she embrace he?)
     • SaveNZ 1.3.2

       11 August 2018 at 12:29 pm

       I think Ed is referring to social class definition of class aka Capitalism, which is different from identity politics..

       Social Class

       noun A system of ordering society whereby people are divided into sets based on perceived social or economic status.

       2.1count noun A social division based on social or economic status.
       ‘the ruling class’

       More example sentencesSynonyms
       2.2the classesarchaic The rich or educated.

       Identity politics

       Identity politics definition, political activity or movements based on or catering to the cultural, ethnic, gender, racial, religious, or social interests that characterize a group identity.
       • marty mars 1.3.2.1

         11 August 2018 at 12:38 pm

         yes so on one someone will be middle class and on the other they will be scottish, red headed, right wing, hetrosexual, able bodied, and so on. One gives a much deeper understanding of who and what we are based upon our values and recognitions.

         so how can our identity via ‘identity politics’ be un-prioritised when it is us?
         • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.3.2.1.1

           11 August 2018 at 1:25 pm

           I’m not pathetic enough to let my homosexuality define who I am and not do I want to be characterised because of it. I fought for equality, not this appearance based system of apartheid you seem to believe is more important than my economic status
           • marty mars 1.3.2.1.1.1

             11 August 2018 at 1:34 pm

             Your economic status IS you? YOU are that range of numbers? – see it’s just silly isn’t it. btw you aren’t your appearance either 🙂
             • Tuppence Shrewsbury …

               11 August 2018 at 3:04 pm

               My economic status isn’t me, but it’s no less valid an identifier than the colour of my hair as you made mention of in your comment above
         • SaveNZ 1.3.2.1.2

           11 August 2018 at 1:29 pm

           When someone seems to identify only as a subset of identity aka a Maori women and somehow loses focus on the rest of the population who might not be in that niche….

           Then say, you focus an election campaigns on beneficiaries to vote for you… but then confuse them with rallies to that focus on certain parts of identity, Maori women for example, the rest of your target market might think what the fucK, I just need to find a food parcel and accomodation or want to save the whales or don’t want the future of my grandchildren to be a cog in some factory? It’s confusing as fuck to most people or alienating and annoys them too. People like politicians to speak to their experience. Identity politics destroys that to the other outside the identity being promoted.

           Great to be pro Maori and Pro women, pro homosexual, but if that is a significant part of the focus, what not set up your own party to promote that niche group? At a rough guess you have about 5% of the vote if you get 100% of that vote which is pretty unlikely so your will go down the gurgles quickly!

           Just like vote Hillary, she’s the first female President! That is not a policy!

           P.S. works for the right wingers to gut other people’s parties!
           • marty mars 1.3.2.1.2.1

             11 August 2018 at 1:42 pm

             I get your point.

             Just because a part of an identity is the part that is identified with doesn’t mean the other parts don’t exist. It in fact emphasises ALL aspects of identity.

             Seems to me that many don’t like the identity side because they don’t identify with the particular part being emphasised. For instance if I’m talking about age and aged care and specific care for aged people – if you’re not in that category then why worry? And that to me is selfish and self serving. Identity political people care MORE about people because they recognise that they are sometimes in a category being focused on and sometimes not and they are okay with that.
             • SaveNZ …

               11 August 2018 at 1:57 pm

               If you look at people who changed history against the odds, they are not dividers, Nelson Mendela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, they worked to unite the identities by finding things in common, not differences. That is how they succeeded.
               • marty mars …

                 11 August 2018 at 2:15 pm

                 By finding differences we actually find the similarities because we are actually all different yet connected through the various strands of our identity and thus humanity.
             • solkta …

               11 August 2018 at 2:29 pm

               Yip, identity politic is just caring about people, every people. I thought that had something to do with left wing, but then i came here.
               • SaveNZ …

                 11 August 2018 at 6:37 pm

                 Yep when white lesbian atheist women clash with male pacific Island christians.. I’m sure it’s all hugs and caringness… and Indian from one cast clash with another one etc… Chinese vs Tibetans, Yep lets just isolate the a person into “identity politics” and think that’s gonna create caringness not division…
       • Carolyn_Nth 1.3.2.2

         11 August 2018 at 6:30 pm

         Working class is based on a material reality of a position in an industrial economic system.

         But, when one identifies oneself as “working class” it is also an identity .

         Gender is not just an identity, but a material reality. The whole of our society organises around sex/gender categories – from “it’s a boy”, to classifications on passports, public toilets, etc – it’s deeply embedded in our institutions.

         Some identities or human classifications are trivial and/or very individual, but those of gender, ethnicity, sexuality, etc have very deep impacts on people’s lives. They include a material reality and a collective identification. he colle tive identification is necessary to campaign against gender and sexual inequalities, just as a collective working class identity is necessary to struggle against class oppression .

         Marx said that when the working classes moved into cities and factories, and shared their experiences, they would become aware of theselves as exploited working class – that is a recognition of an identity.

         There was a similar process for African Americans under slavery, and then capitalism; and a similar process for women in the 20th century as they started to move out of the domestic sphere, and LGBT people as they collected in urban bars and clubs, and shared their experiences of abuse and oppression.

         Attempts to try to dismiss “identity politics” as some individualistic nice-to-have, by so strongly differentiating it from class, is a superficial attempt to misinform about and dismiss the reality of other forms of oppression.
         • solkta 1.3.2.2.1

           11 August 2018 at 6:47 pm

           Well said.
         • SaveNZ 1.3.2.2.2

           11 August 2018 at 7:43 pm

           Of course there are strong identities like race and gender and religion nobody is denying that, as well as social class, but political parties campaigning using it, can drop the left in the polls, or create anxiety or strengthen the race/gender/religious based other parties (supposed the opposite of the lefties aka Trump syndrome), because only focusing on one part of identity can be more divisive than inclusive and in addition the left seem to fall into the trap of focusing on the most niche groups they can identify with, and think that’s gonna resonate with other voters…
           • solkta 1.3.2.2.2.1

             11 August 2018 at 8:23 pm

             So don’t you care about people?
   • SaveNZ 1.4

     11 August 2018 at 11:37 am

     +1 ED, Brash has been in his crypt for a while, but now Natz lost the election they realise that the right can use the 5% lefties whose most important issue is to heckle dinosaurs and give them publicity and get the right wingers and right wing media around race and identity politics back for the benefit of Natz.

     This gets much more important things off the media landscape such as climate change, pollution increasing inequality, low wages to cost of living, and how increasingly the taxpayers are paying top up wages for minimum and living wage workers so that the employers can profit more and use that money in other ways (forays into China and blowing multimillions on partnerships for example for Fonterra as well as 8 million dollar salaries while making people redundant and lowering farm payouts), lawyers to get massive chicken sheds in Dargaville and stink out the town for Hong Kong based Tegal, having the councils give away free water for polluting bottling plants overseas and rubber stamped by our own politicians, closing down libraries at universities, giving free rein to private universities to recruit foreign students for poor quality degrees which generally with a lack of English skills, poor attendance due to working (thanks fake financials!) and appalling teachers they are unable to get to the required standard thus lowering the credibility of the NZ degree for everybody else, (but hey, someone made a profit so all good!) …

     …nope we don’t hear any of that, instead months of media on a couple of Canadian nobodies and now the return of Brash who also is effectively a nobody.

     However a great opportunity to get the MSM media types and liberal lefties who find the above too challenging to confront so prefer the comfort of a mainstream fielded issue worrying about what some nobodies say about race, nice and simplistic to understand, to get them frothing wildly at the mouth.

     You may not have noticed but neoliberalism is happy for any coloured person to do their minimum wages work and buy their goods as long as they can lower wages and conditions and replace those who get sick or injured quickly and at no cost to themselves.

     Even better in NZ the taxpayers pay for their health care, housing top ups, kids, education and so forth. So much so that someone worked out that the taxpayers have to put in $5000 a year to top up minimum employers wages if they have 2 kids and the government only gets $9 in taxes from the living wage! Now the government are even offering to pay the dole as well and then the employee will top up to minimum wage. Well that’s getting positive employment going even if they are paying for the workers for private employers wages! sarcasm.

     Sounds sustainable to continue as a welfare state???? No wonder hotel construction is booming in NZ, almost free labour here and free residency included for the ‘investment’. Likewise retirement villages and luxury high rises. The only missing piece in action is the affordable housing, but don’t worry the government has free land available for PPP’s and will gift the lands to corporations so they are not accountable.

     I’m not sure where the 50% of the population is going to do though, if they are the ones earning $20p/h or less and that is the rate apparently that the construction, service and horticultural industry are clamouring for. Not the more skilled experienced people on over $100,000k… or spending that money on training our kids going through school get those jobs so they do not become unemployed.

     Rome is burning while the left are worrying about reclaiming the word cunt.
     • Hongi Ika 1.4.1

       11 August 2018 at 4:45 pm

       …. at least the c… is useful at times ?
     • Carolyn_Nth 1.4.2

       11 August 2018 at 6:52 pm

       The cunt response from Davidson was because of experiencing racist and misogynistic abuse on social media.

       The new right is on the rise, and targeting women, people of colour, certain ethnic groups and LGBT people. This is not some trivial thing. If it takes hold, these new right bigots want to turn the clock back – following the verbal abuse will come some very damaging discrimination and possibly violence.

       I agree though, this is not un-connected with the socio-economic system and class exploitation.

       Trying to split off these realities will just fragment the left.
       • SaveNZ 1.4.2.1

         11 August 2018 at 8:23 pm

         The left are the biggest contributors to the rise of the right, which judging by the higher amounts of women and Maori in parliament and LGBT issues apparently being of high importance to the new government aka gender neutral toilets and new birth certificates, not sure how the reality vs paranoia is going for these “persecuted” groups.

         If anything the right are not attacking these groups and instead claiming the niche, John Key rocked up to the Auckland Pride Parade, both the deputy and opposition leader identify as Maori.

         Not only that the leader of the country is female, Greens have more women MP’s than men and so forth.

         There is a lot wrong with NZ, and I would not say any of these identity issues are one of them.
         • One Two 1.4.2.1.1

           11 August 2018 at 9:58 pm

           Correct!
2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

   11 August 2018 at 8:15 am

   Wouldn’t want to get on a boat with these guys

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/106174732/divers-accused-of-covering-up-truth-behind-divers-death
3. Morrissey 3

   11 August 2018 at 8:53 am

   Noelle McCarthy is doggedly reigning in her ferocity and
   nastiness for a while, and pretending to be a serious person.
   RNZ National, Saturday 11 August 2018, 8:10 a.m.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday

   Noelle McCarthy’s breathy Cork-accented wittering is, unfortunately, becoming frequent on RNZ National. For the last couple of weeks, she’s been filling in for Kim Hill on Saturdays. This morning she’s interviewing the Australian Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs. McCarthy is putting on her very best imitation of a decent human being, at one point saying, in perfect seriousness: “When you look at the ferocity and nastiness, especially of the gendered stuff, it really is appalling.”

   She’s right, of course. When one looks at the “ferocity and nastiness” of some feral people in the media and in politics, it really is appalling….

   NOELLE McCARTHY, 10 July 2013: Y-y-y-y-yeeeeeessss, …. [snort] ….he he he! He’s still in hiding. He he he! …. He he he he he! Yes he is still in that terminal! …[snort]… He he he he he he! ….[snort]…. He’s got a choice! Venezuela, Bolivia or Ecuador! …. Bolivia would be hard with the altitude! ….
   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10072013/#comment-661123

   Less than one week later, she was at it again….

   NOELLE McCARTHY, 16 July 2013: [grimly] Heh, heh, heh. Well someone else with not such a good view is Edward Snowden. [snicker] Looks like he’s STILL in the airport! …
   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16072013/#comment-663663

   And here she is enthusiastically taking part in another group guffaw, this time about another Government-designated political target, Julian Assange….

   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19072013/#comment-664870

   On another occasion, McCarthy mounted a sustained attack on Roger Waters after he spoke out against Israeli crimes against Gaza. Ferocity and nastiness, indeed.

   https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/noelle-mccarthy-stops-snickering.html
   • greywarshark 3.1

     11 August 2018 at 9:06 am

     Yes Morrissey, I too am concerned about hearing her. She has changed her delivery over the years improving, but she is over here and seems to appeal to the cringe element. who think overseas is best, in Radionz. We have some wonderful imports such as Kim Hill and Rod Oram. But Noelle? She might be good to run The Panel but I don’t trust her for anything else , and feel she has gained some sort of ‘in’ to the group that has some power on RNZ, that amorphous set of letters.
     • OnceWasTim 3.1.1

       11 August 2018 at 10:42 am

       Yep, I’m still wondering too. We do have some wonderful imports. We also have the good and the ugly when it comes to a home-grown crop. The good – when it comes to acting as locum: Lyn Freeman for example.
       Maybe she’s improving with age, (or like me, ripening)
       • greywarshark 3.1.1.1

         11 August 2018 at 10:57 am

         Ah but are your mellowing? I note you still call Kathryn Ryan Rinnie. Why do you have doubts about her? I haven’t seen you describe why.
         • OnceWasTim 3.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2018 at 11:28 am

           Ah, well there’s another one that seems to be improving. The Rinnie comes from years ago (many) – another Kathryn (Hay) who also does some good things with Brian Crump on ‘Nights’.
           The thing about RNZ is that I worry the ‘bean counter/marketers’ are gradually creeping through the door. It has some bloody good people in there doing good things – on all platforms: National, Concert and The Wireless. There are others who I think would be more suited to commercial radio.
           Maybe I am mellowing as I ripen.

           We have had people trying to denigrate Public Service broadcasting now for quite some time. (Even in the language they used. Ralston used to call TVNZ “STATE TV” rather than “Public TV – which it never really was). He seemed to drop the term though when there was an earn in it for him, and now people regard him as some sort of sage.

           Still, my thoughts on PSB don’t seem to have any followers.
           As I’ve previously said, my belief is that public money should go to publicly owned and operated service, maybe occasionally to subsidise things in the public good but not as some sort of corporate welfare.

           Currently things remind me of all that funder/provider model we haven’t got past since the health system was going through its last crisis.
           And so, why the need for:
           1 RNZ equipped with CEO, board and bureaucracy.
           2 TVNZ equipped with CEO, board and bureaucracy.
           3 NZoA equipped with CEO, board and bureaucracy.
           4 Kordia equipped with CEO, board and bureaucracy.

           Given the publicly owned resources (assets), I find it hard to understand why we can’t have at least 1 PS TV channel, probably two along with an adequate service for children, AND 3 Radio Channels – the third along the lines of what Tim Finn called for years ago (or as RNZ describes things “for NZers who’ve grown up in the digital age”)

           Don’t get me started though, or you’ll never hear the bloody end of it 🙂
           • OnceWasTim 3.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2018 at 11:39 am

             Kathry = Karen (but it sort of stuck
     • mpledger 3.1.2

       11 August 2018 at 10:58 am

       She really doesn’t seem to have enough in depth knowledge of news nor is she able to articulate it. She was ok on Summer Noelle and that kind of thing suits her talents.
       • greywarshark 3.1.2.1

         11 August 2018 at 12:27 pm

         It seems to me that Noelle is their go-to person, and becoming fully rounded in the ways and jobs in RNZ. Bloody hell, can’t we have a NZ go-to person. The media seems full of foreigners, and foreign stories – as long as they are from English-speaking countries.

         Flanders and Swann literally – ‘The English, the English the English are best so up with the English and down with the rest.”
         (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdY1Y5XNJBY
         Change that to NZs are best and make it a theme song for our public media. It won’t guarantee NZs a job, but will ensure the good ones get a foot in the door.

         And we can demonstrate our own clever whimsies too like F & S and their Horn Concerto: (courtesy of Mozart):
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYrj2DQlVc

         Seeing there are about 8 billion in the world we NZrs need to look to ourselves to protect our jobs, or everything will be administered by new colonialists, white, pink, gold, or black – I think I have enunciated all the colours. Lovely people but we can’t get too many more who decide they will come here to a better life, as our tectonic plates are already tilting and we’ll find ourselves shoved off.
4. greywarshark 4

   11 August 2018 at 9:15 am

   Cowboys in NZ. Are you safe trusting men running sports activities where there is risk? Our record is not good. Not 100% Pure for people as well as water.

   Inquest into death of woman diver in boat with only men.
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/106174732/divers-accused-of-covering-up-truth-behind-divers-death
   He said once it was clear something was wrong the skipper spun the boat around quite fast to go back to the buoy, knocking him over and he did not see the skipper try and rescue Thongsi. He was hungover at the time.

   At Wednesday’s session, the skipper of the boat was grilled over why he spent only 30 seconds searching for Thongsi.
5. marty mars 5

   11 August 2018 at 9:17 am

   usually these agendas are more covert but this one is out there in the open now

   As a young woman, she knew her prospects were slim. Tokyo Medical University’s entrance exam was notoriously tough, with women far less likely to pass than men.

   Unknown to Miyauchi, the university’s authorities had put another barrier in her way. She is one of an unknown number of young women whose test scores the school deliberately marked down to prevent them entering a career in medicine and ensure more men became doctors.

   The Yomiuri newspaper reported last week how the university systematically kept the ratio of female students at just below a third, due to concerns about their ability to continue working after having children.

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/betrayed-victims-of-tokyos-medical-school-scandal-react
6. marty mars 6

   11 August 2018 at 9:27 am

   Outrageous – this must be rescinded – come on! stop this rubbish and think of the people!!!

   A Taranaki iwi has lashed out at a Ministry of Justice decision not to renew its mortuary services contract with the Taranaki District Health Board.
   As part of a national review of coronial support services, it will mean all post-mortems required on Taranaki bodies will be done in Palmerston North or Hamilton.

   Kaiarataki (leader) o Te Rūnanga of Ngāti Ruanui, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, said the decision was outrageous and made without consultation with the wider Taranaki public.

   “This is a blatant disregard for tikanga Māori and whānau throughout Taranaki.”

   Ms Ngarewa-Packer said taking coronial services out of region would have a negative effect on whānau access and management of tūpāpaku (the person’s remains).

   “To supersede tikanga Māori greatly affects whānau outcomes and is in direct violation of the Coroners Act 2006. When the grieving process is not respected, those affected are more likely to experience negative outcomes such as depression and increased likelihood of grief-related suicide.”

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363847/taranaki-iwi-lashes-out-at-coronial-services-decision
   • greywarshark 6.1

     11 August 2018 at 10:34 am

     There will be no end to this desire to drive efficiency and computerise everything to do with our lives. Be ready to protest and stop it if you can. If you succeed be aware that the people with power over budgets and implementation of policies will only be biding their time before another attack on our human values and priorities.

     It is the ‘modern’ thing nowadays to allow machines and machine-thinking humans who have internalised the efficiency thinking and the need to service the master will carry ideas oiut faithfully or else not be in jobs, so’ just following orders’!
     • OnceWasTim 6.1.1

       11 August 2018 at 11:57 am

       Well they tried to base implementing our immigration policy on machines and machine thinking humans. What could go wrong?
       /sarc
7. Ankerrawshark 7

   11 August 2018 at 10:25 am

   https://www.facebook.com/206936646000827/posts/2223072607720544/

   Interesting. A test that shows music taste can be predictive of psychopathy. And one of the songs associated with psychopathy was lose yourself by Ememen …….interesting that national choose it for the 2014 campaign. Makes new significance out of “pretty legal”
8. greywarshark 8

   11 August 2018 at 10:28 am

   Reason and justice speaker from Australia. Compare to what you hear from the Oz politicians.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018657654/gillian-triggs-aussie-battler-for-human-rights

   8:09 Gillian Triggs – Aussie battler for human rights
   Gillian Triggs

   Gillian Triggs was a lawyer and academic specialising in international public law when she was named president of the Australian Human Rights Commission in 2012. An extremely controversial five years in the job followed, seeing Triggs fall afoul of the federal government after launching an inquiry into children in immigration detention, and other instances where she criticised Government actions and those of conservative media commentators. One of her longstanding beliefs is that Australia needs its own Bill of Rights.

   Triggs was in Aotearoa this week as the inaugural speaker for the ‘At the Forefront: Human Rights Speaker Series’, an initiative of the Holocaust Centre of New Zealand.

   She had some interesting things to say about the outcomes of feminism.
   *********************************************************************

   Thining about ‘dysfuckshun’ in the USA this morning. An interesting speaker Cornel West, says it is important to tell the truth about how things are, look it in the eye even if it brings despair. Just singing the blues is tragi-comedy looking at despair and yet going on, keeping singing, it is something.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018657663/cornel-west-confronting-a-polarised-world

   9:06 Cornel West – Confronting a polarised world
   Cornel West

   Cornel West is Professor of the Practice of Public Philosophy at Harvard University and holds the title of Professor Emeritus at Princeton University. He has also taught at Union Theological Seminary, Yale, Harvard, and the University of Paris. West graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard and obtained his MA and PhD in Philosophy at Princeton. He has written 20 books and has edited 13. He is best known for his classics, Race Matters and Democracy Matters, and for his memoir, Brother West: Living and Loving Out Loud.

   Free speech lovers – don’t miss this attempt at intelligent discussion!!!
   Dr West will debate right-wing thinker Douglas Murray in a mediated discussion called Polarised on August 17 in Auckland, details here.
   • greywarshark 8.1

     11 August 2018 at 6:10 pm

     Australia doesn’t like us because we are too multi-cultural. We don’t have visas between our borders and it is regarded as a back door for undesirables unable to meet their high standard of something.

     I have had an idea. Think it is a good one. Let us embrace visas for Australia and vice versa. At present our tourism has an unhealthy dependence on them, but the high aggregate money they bring in, comes from longer stays with the least spend of all our tourists. And NZ might think about not dodging over there and instead spread their money around the Pacific. More NZs might like to visit the Cook Islands.

     People could still travel but it would be more controlled. International visitors tend to come in summer to NZ and we get crowded then. Tourism sector desires are for more growth and we are already finding numbers are oppressive on our fun-loving citizens. So slow down the Ozzies a little, perhaps control them with higher visa charges during the high season and give concessions for winter. It would provide a better balance for this milk-rush companion business being pushed to excess.

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11163126
     Report from Key’s time when he did make a comment that sounded sensible – 26 November 2013.
     The report shows Australians make up 45 per cent of the 2.6 million tourists who visit every year, up from 31 per cent 10 years ago.
     They spend the least money while here – an average of $2017 each per visit, compared to $3449 for Chinese visitors and $3502 for tourists from the UK.
     • corodale 8.1.1

       11 August 2018 at 9:17 pm

       Yeah, the whole closer-economic-relations between NZ and Australia is also a barrier to reform regarding neo-liberal capitalism.

       Being slight anti-Austalian Govt, might be required if the lefties here want change. Our big four bloody banks that their State shares with the Zionists…
     • KJT 8.1.2

       11 August 2018 at 9:27 pm

       Racism has always been behind Australian policy towards New Zealanders. We let in too many brown people for their liking.

       However it is also the reason why New Zealand does not extend the same rights to the Pacific Islands, as we do to Australians.
       • greywarshark 8.1.2.1

         11 August 2018 at 10:27 pm

         Funny how Australia is reverting to treating people like their convicts were treated. I think Australian whites should all go back to where they came from. Let UK have its fractious badly brought up children back.KJT as for racism and other oppressive systems. They can be called oppressive when they are administered unfairly and unreasonably like the Dawn Raids. The government as it mismanaged our economy, did not want a rush from various PIs coming here and finding jobs scarce and end up unemployed.
9. greywarshark 9

   11 August 2018 at 10:55 am

   Thought after hearing radio news. There is great upset over poor little Yemen children in bus being targeted by Saudi forces with western USA? weapons supporting Yemen government against rebels. Bad. Shouldn’t have happened.

   Operation Katipo here every few years or so with western Forces from 11 countries has had scenario of helping to control breakaway NZ activist/rebel group on behalf of government with dissenting, protesting over election controversy.

   Think Australian attack with USA weapons on NZs rebelling against fascist NZ government. There is thinking in our police and defence forces that shows that bias.

   End of my input for today. I thought these were outstanding people and ideas. Also we want to pay attention and celebrate Radionz excellence and keep that going while monitoring possible detractors.
   • Hongi Ika 9.1

     11 August 2018 at 4:48 pm

     … the kids had the potential to be future Yemeni terrorists when they grow up, just removing the threat early ?
   • KJT 9.2

     11 August 2018 at 9:22 pm

     Rather terrifying that our so called, “defense force” seems to consider their role as “defending” the Government against New Zealanders. “Smiths Dream”.
10. greywarshark 10

    11 August 2018 at 11:06 am

    Southland District Health Board underfunded wants to close birthing unit – fears that this to give birth women might have to travel 130 km. (Reference: Nelson to Blenheim is 114 km).
    • SaveNZ 10.1

      11 August 2018 at 12:16 pm

      Disgusting! when will they learn, they need to add MORE hospitals not less so they have the capacity for our growing population that they are cultivating. Then they wonder why we have ghost towns in NZ and nobody wants to live there.

      Clearly the idea that people want functioning well run health services within a decent distance in a community seems to pass government by, as is the jobs and security hospitals create in a community.

      Likewise schools being closed down…
      • dukeofurl 10.1.1

        11 August 2018 at 12:51 pm

        I see your point and there are many reasons to keep smaller medical facilities, especialy for un complicated births.
        However Ranfurly/ Central Otago outside the immediate Lakes area isnt a growing population

        There is a hospital at Alexandra-Clyde as well as Queenstown
        • SaveNZ 10.1.1.1

          11 August 2018 at 1:48 pm

          Yep, they but ain’t gonna grow the towns it if they gut the local services either!

          Had someone say their parents moved to Balclutha from Auckland. Apparently best move they ever made. You can still keep your door unlocked there!

          My guess is plenty of North Islanders will be moving down South as they can’t afford to live North, so they should keep the South Island services going, especially medical services as a lot of the people moving will be people who are retired or without traditional jobs.

          Can’t remember but there was some scandal about a child who was denied urgent medical care down south because the doctor was playing a card game???? The poor kid nearly died going hours to the next hospital.

          Speed is always of the essence in medical cases and they should not be closing down services to save money.
          • SaveNZ 10.1.1.1.1

            11 August 2018 at 2:12 pm

            In an Auckland example there have been monthly robberies in Helensville apparently, because the police shut their office up at 4pm and so criminals have free rein after that hour. Bear in mind Helensville is also one of the main P making towns as well, so great they don’t bother to have any police there!!!!

            So sounds like criminals just break in, after 4pm and take their free alcohol and any money they find …. now so successful they are targeting stores in other parts of Auckland….

            Surely a solution to a growing population of Auckland is manning the police offices in the towns 24 hours!

            Or at least a sting to catch the culprits… how can people grow a business and who is going to set up and grow these towns in the Supercity, with that sort of carry on?

            That is how ghost towns in NZ are being created. Safety is everything.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/nor-west-news/105491099/Helensville-restaurant-targeted-in-ongoing-burglaries
            • SaveNZ 10.1.1.1.1.1

              11 August 2018 at 2:49 pm

              Strategically if Labour and the coalition put an office in Helensville, got 24 hr police in there which the Natz should of years ago, and cleaned up the town a bit, locals which have been strongly blue, but in an area slowly being gentrified by the more lefty folks drifting out from Auckland would actually demonstrate some sort of government strategy to demonstrate community committment to people outside of the identity politics bubble of Wellington… especially as Rodney is supposed to be where the new Conservative cheat party is supposed to spawn from.

              There is a also a railway line there that goes directly into Auckland and through a lot of areas like Waimauku where there is massive housing being built at 1 million a pop, but little usable public transport, but somehow their is not plans for existing rail to be used or going to be used for commuters…
              • dukeofurl …

                11 August 2018 at 4:33 pm

                Having a staffed small police station doesnt mean they are available for callouts. Likely the area would be covered from Henderson and of course the area around has plenty lifestyle blocks so need police for them not just the town.
                Having said that the police are no longer interested in what they call ‘volume crime’ and if word gets around they dont turn up they get less calls.

                The numbers of people moving to small South island towns is minuscule, a few hundred at most for say Otago. I suppose one day we will have the Census numbers ( another crap job done under national party guidance) with the Novapay Minister Foss being Stats minister was well) to be able to really know.
                • SaveNZ …

                  11 August 2018 at 6:01 pm

                  I guess that’s excellent news for criminals knowing that you have at least 40 – 50 minutes to do your crimes before the Henderson or Kumeu officer comes, and since the police know the crims are long gone they don’t bother coming anyway I would expect!

                  Not a good look to have repeated burglaries within about 2 minutes of the local police station, that is unmanned after 4 pm! Drove threw Helensville about a month ago and quite a few boarded up windows in our so called ‘rockstar’ economy of Auckland. Not even the provinces so I guess that is how parts of Northland became a basket case.

                  Also guessing that is why the ‘war on P’ never got solved… you have between 4pm and 7am to make your P stash, move it, sell it and then get some petty crimes going on route… knowing no police will be on call locally through those hours and have little interest anyway.
                  • SaveNZ …

                    11 August 2018 at 6:23 pm

                    Also excellent use of police time (sarcasm), driving 40 mins in one direction then 40 mins back as some dimwit thinks it will save money to not man local police stations… another winning neolib idea!

                    Large central hubs with hours spent in transit for those working there and free reign for crims after hours….
      • Hongi Ika 10.1.2

        11 August 2018 at 4:49 pm

        …. just have the baby in the bath like some people do ?
11. marty mars 11

    11 August 2018 at 12:11 pm

    Some great work at reducing suicide among young Māori – these types of initiatives can really help.

    People working in mental health say Māori mātauranga or knowledge like the maramataka can play a bigger role in their sector.

    For the past year, Rikki Solomon has travelled around the country alongside Rereata Makiha from the Māori Astronomy Society sharing traditional knowledge about the Māori lunar calendar with rangatahi, community groups and iwi.

    The pair use the Māori maramataka based on the moon cycles to provide a different perspective on suicide or whakamomori.

    The maramataka provides a framework for when to do certain activities and uses traditional knowledge of the star systems, moon cycles, tides and the environment.

    For example the winter months were a time for reflection and planning while the summer months were when food was harvested.

    Māori have the highest suicide rates of all ethnic groups with nearly 22 suicides per 100,000 people in 2016-17.

    The pair’s research focused on the high number of suicides which occurred in the month of August and the Māori maramataka was used to offer another point of view or reason for the high numbers.

    “That period is known as te akonga,” Mr Solomon said.

    According to Mr Solomon this is a time of the year where many people are vulnerable and feel low.

    “Careful planning needs to be done in August to watch over our loved ones.

    “Our tupuna knew when to watch our for our rangatahi so it’s about re-educating our whānau into these different phases.”

    The winter months were a time where the mind and body could become out of balance, he said.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/363709/maramataka-enlightening-mental-health-services
12. SaveNZ 12

    11 August 2018 at 12:12 pm

    Congratulations to the new government for banning single use bags. I think they should go further and make companies responsible for recycling their plastic for non single use types of plastic as well.

    Before you know it, less packaging and they will use organic materials like potato and paper etc for the packaging that will rot down. You know, like the old days before billions of plastic was being dumped into the ocean daily that will never rot.

    Also helps NZ, we have a lot of land for trees to plant and if they have any scientists left here, maybe our own cottage approach to packaging that is compostable?
    • alwyn 12.1

      11 August 2018 at 6:08 pm

      I wonder what the Wellington City Council are going to do about their rubbish collection?
      At the moment if you use the Council service you have to buy plastic rubbish bags which they collect and dump. Presumably they will be banned. I guess we will just have to dump our rubbish in a heap by the side of the road and leave it to the local pets to amuse themselves with.
      More likely an outcome is that they will simply stop having any rubbish collection at all. That is just a boring necessity and not nearly as much fun on spending endless millions on their play things.
      • BM 12.1.1

        11 August 2018 at 6:28 pm

        What’s going to happen Alwyn is that everyone’s going to have to buy a wheelie bin.
        Going to be fun if you live in an apartment or one of those units with no outdoor space at all.

        This has to be the worst government ever, Ardern is such a virtue signalling clown.
        • KJT 12.1.1.1

          13 August 2018 at 1:33 pm

          Use a wheelie bin now. Big improvement.
      • Molly 12.1.2

        12 August 2018 at 8:15 am

        I must be somewhat older than you alwyn. I can quite easily recall Dad putting out our family rubbish in big brown paper bags.
13. marty mars 13

    11 August 2018 at 12:48 pm

    Great event coming up

    Sue Bradford: Picket lines & Parliament

    Central City Library – Wednesday 29 August 5.30pm to 7.30pm Free

    Sue Bradford is renowned as a staunch advocate for the underdog. Her voice has been heard echoing through the chambers of parliament and amplified through megaphones at marches.

    Wahine Take Action

    Join us to hear how this powerful wāhine has taken action for social change throughout her colourful career.

    Our curatorial team will be on hand from 5.30pm to provide tours of the feature exhibition Wāhine Take Action, which highlights the tools and tactics women have used to fight their causes and support their communities – from marching on Parliament to wearing a badge.

    Original photographs, letters and posters will be on display, including unique material from the archives of the Auckland Women’s Centre and the Broadsheet Collective.
14. joe90 14

    11 August 2018 at 1:30 pm

    How about that peace dividend.
    /

    Stepping into a briefing with @DeptofDefense Secretary Mattis on the creation of the #SpaceForce. As @POTUS Trump has stated clearly and forcefully, space is “a war-fighting domain, just like the land, air, and sea.”— Vice President Mike Pence (@VP) August 9, 2018
    • joe90 14.1

      11 August 2018 at 2:06 pm

      Colbert –

      wait till NASA discovers life before you try to kill it

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipwho-kxkI&feature=youtu.be
      • Dennis Frank 14.1.1

        11 August 2018 at 7:45 pm

        Cool, that got me laughing a lot. They’re up to something. Wouldn’t float such a nutball scheme unless to distract the media. Clever rationale, though: fighting wars currently only on land, sea & in the air, so fighting wars in space too is the obvious missing link to fighting wars everywhere. Arms industry owners will be having orgasms. Believing he actually means it.
    • Andre 14.2

      11 August 2018 at 4:22 pm

      It’s a grift.

      https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/09/politics/trump-campaign-space-force/index.html
      • joe90 14.2.1

        11 August 2018 at 4:27 pm

        Space tyres.

        Ivanka Trump’s fashion brand announced it was shutting down two weeks ago. But it just got registration approval for a new Chinese trademark for–among other things–tire retreading. pic.twitter.com/NuqFWZLPp4— Citizens for Ethics (@CREWcrew) August 10, 2018

        edit: not an original though between them

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/NASA_logo.svg
        • Andre 14.2.1.1

          11 August 2018 at 4:53 pm

          I saw the Mars Awaits one and it took me back to my reading habits of 45 years ago.

          https://www.pinterest.nz/gamingfloor/tintin-to-the-moon/
15. joe90 15

    11 August 2018 at 2:44 pm

    You’ve cracked it when you’re big in Saudi.

    Large Saudi social media account cites "world famous psychologist" Jordan Peterson to justify gender segregation. Peterson is crossing the language barrier, inspiring misogynists the world over. https://t.co/I2I4StcibG— İyad el-Baghdadi | إياد البغدادي (@iyad_elbaghdadi) June 9, 2018

    https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1005302713985400833
    • millsy 15.1

      12 August 2018 at 1:57 am

      Peterson, Southern, Moleynux and the guy who started it all, Milo will find it discomforting to know that their vision of society already exists in the Muslim nations that they despise, most notably Saudi Arabia, Iran and the UAE.
16. joe90 16

    11 August 2018 at 4:22 pm

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez interviewed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxFlBGvPgF8&feature=youtu.be

    https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018
17. AsleepWhileWalking 17

    11 August 2018 at 4:49 pm

    Who dares winz

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018657176/how-unemployed-people-are-treated-at-work-and-income
    • greywarshark 17.1

      11 August 2018 at 7:39 pm

      “My observation, WINZ knows that they need them, so ‘you’re going to get treated how you’re going to get treated and you’re going to accept it, because you need us’.
      “We’re all human, we all have feelings and some of us don’t want to go there, but that’s our only option at that point in time in our lives.”

      The people shouldn’t feel that there is anything wrong with going to Winz. It is why we have the Department. ‘Some of us don’t want to go there’ shouldn’t come into the discussion at all. Just ask people how they can help them, and give them the advice and help so they can manage and get out of whatever difficulty they’re in Winz and grow some manners like your mother, if she was any sort of good person, would have taught you.
18. AsleepWhileWalking 18

    11 August 2018 at 7:46 pm

    Cali fires

    https://youtu.be/5mepGXN8Uf0
19. corodale 19

    12 August 2018 at 3:04 am

    Fuel dumping in western Europe has been very different this year. Last few years they managed to produce an effective haze. This year the clouds just didn’t seed. Strange stuff, every which way ya look. But we’ve finally had a bit of rain here, so summer drought may be passing.
20. corodale 20

    12 August 2018 at 3:16 am

    Could a new Sykes-Picot deal improve things? Chinese rather than French, and Indian rather than British? A Jewish state within a Greater Syria? Perhaps an external transition govt in Turkey? Send some peace keepers with army from the Pacific, trained to support Playcentres and Schools in Yemen?
21. eco maori 21

    12 August 2018 at 10:25 am

    Marae good morning Miriama Donna Eco maori would love to see statues beside Caption Cooks statues of our great tangata whenua tipuna’s and story’s of the great feat’s our Great tipuna achieved this will happen very soon .
    Hollow men Let’s us see into the cheating way’s of the 00.1% neo capitalist cheating way’s Thanks Nick this is what helped us push the crook’s out of Parliament Mana wahine is growing strong Ka pai . Ka kite ano.
22. eco maori 22

    12 August 2018 at 4:49 pm

    The trump effect as I call it the is unfolding in front of OUR eyes look at OUR guest who were trying to speak at the power station . trump is empowering all the white supremacist raciest people around the World look in the middle east he is letting them kill hundreds he is empowering this behavior he has severally damaged the Democracy political model of the World he has use anything he could to get his prize
    the Presidency . It’s not hard to look a bit into his history to see that no one is UN-expendable in his reality . You can see who has share’s in his business in his hotels these links go right back to his father he only became a Republican when Barack Obama became The President of America this paint’s a loud and clear picture of what he is capable of doing .
    The big picture is not if Russia hacked the election of 2016 and got trump in power or America has been doing the same the big picture is trump is empowering the small amount of people who think like him to chase the seat’s of power around the world he will most likely be assisting these racist in other way’s these people have no morels and will do anything to get power. The long arms of trump has impeded free speech by banning the use of words associated with climate changer .
    With the speed of OUR technology advances the NOW is going to see some very important changes in OUR Papatuanuku Society’s and who is in power at the time this technology is found will have major effects on all the people of the World if it is people with Ideals like trump we the common people will be in big troubled time’s we will be fighting the 00.1% World War’s you see they get us to fight there wars and when they are finished with us they discard us .I see this all around Papatuanuku
    I am calling on All people who care for there mokopuna’s future care’s for the environment who does not judge people by there culture but by there actions who respect all cultures and who want’s everyone on Papatuanuku living a happy humane life We need the Left Leader’s with morels and Intellectuals like Barack Obama Jacinda Angelia Macron Trudeau and the other’s who think like us and want Peace and harmoney to step up and vote run for election’s get in power and protest let the Whole Papatuanuku know that we are not happy with the direction the radical raciest are taking us. Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12105403

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12105396
    • corodale 22.1

      12 August 2018 at 9:45 pm

      Good to hear opinions, especially regarding the big picture.
      I wander if Trump is empowering these crazy folk, or do these crazy folk already have the power, and there just isn’t much Trump can do about it?

      The new sanctions against Russia look like another example of a non-democratic power structure which Trump can’t control. Can Maori like you and me, born in the hills, with no direct experience regarding secret power structure, can we really expect to participate effectively in democracy?

      Perhaps Obama was a potentially good leader, who just didn’t use his leadership, because he couldn’t, or was he too afraid to standup and oppose war? Perhaps Trump is less good as a leader, but he will achieve more positive change. Is he trying to make positive changes to the secret power structure?

      Could the issue of racism even mostly be spin, to distract from the real issues? In my investigations, all the major issues point to narcissistic secret governance, a truth which our leaders like Jacinda may feel powerless to oppose. I believe Trump when he say he isn’t racist, though perhaps a bit of a realist, to play along with the way things are.
23. eco maori 23

    12 August 2018 at 6:42 pm

    Good evening Newshub Yes we should use glyphosate with more caution we should use all chemicals with caution .Eco is not going to give seenothing any air with that topic disparate is what I see.
    If you remember I called for a change in how we use and sell Alcohol in OUR society
    some will be able to connect the dot’s with this story.
    Papatuanuku’s beautiful creatures should be treated the world over Elephant’s are such majestic animals and should be treated with care and respect .
    Well the Allblack’s Haka has improved over the year’s this is just a distraction that some sly people are throwing at the Mighty Allblacks . Good win for the Southen Steal a good send off for Wendy
    Ka kite ano
24. eco maori 24

    12 August 2018 at 8:17 pm

    Some music Im listening to at the minute
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4&start_radio=1&list=RDu9Dg-g7t2l4
25. eco maori 25

    12 August 2018 at 9:17 pm

    Radioactive Imagine Dragon’s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktvTqknDobU&list=RDu9Dg-g7t2l4&index=25

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