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Open mike 11/02/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, February 11th, 2015 - 244 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

244 comments on “Open mike 11/02/2015 ”

  1. i am really looking forward to doing the commentary on q-time 2day…

    ..it promises to be interesting…

    ..also of interest is that sky casino post their annual-profits 2day…

    ..hopefully that will raise the condemnation of this latest scam/rort being played on us by these casino-bastards..(and key)..

    ..to fever-pitch..

    • tc 1.1

      Profits are easily manipulated with deferring income and creating provisions and write downs, wouldn’t surprise me if it’s ok but disappointing in some respects with reference made to costs of the new convention centre planning etc etc

      All part of the neo lib con job NACT run via the MSM and the pathetic international joke that is the NZX.

    • Skinny 1.2

      I can see Peters pushing the envelop over the legality of being muzzled from speaking
      under parliamentary privilege about we know what. I hope he pushes Carter to the point of booting him out of the house, now that will get the media excitable and the sheep nattering.

      Really do hope he stands in Northland? If he does will organise a major public forum against the contenders.

    • 97% oppose that hand-out to sky-city..

      ..and tvone wheels out a pimp for the deal..

      ..is that what you call ‘balance’..?

      • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1

        Apparently, what the MSM regard as balanced is them regurgitating what the rich tell them.

    • freedom 1.4

      “i am really looking forward to doing the commentary on q-time 2day…”
      – your commentary cannot be worse than the professional’s efforts yesterday
      (no offence intended phillip 🙂 )


    • Herodotus 1.5

      Trying to find the list of questions for today, from the parliament link I could only find Dec 10 and all previous to this.

    • http://whoar.co.nz/2015/new-zealand-parliament-list-of-questions-for-oral-answer-wednesday-11-february-2015/


      ‘..key yells out to him that ‘there is no dye in these locks’..(referring to peters yesterday accusing him of dying his hair..)

      ..peters replied:..’so why don’t the curtains match the carpet..?’..’

      • Skinny 1.6.1

        So is it worth me watching when I get home from work, by reading your critique it sounds underwhelming?

        • phillip ure

          it was underwhelming in the sense of no sabin-talk/holding to account….

          ..but it is worth watching for seeing key getting monstered over sky city..

          ..first by little..then by turei..

          ..i’ve watched/sat thru/endured far worse..in that forum..

          ..in the name of the public-record..

          • phillip ure

            i gave turei performer-of-the-day-award…

            ..and goff gave the peace-sign..

            ..with his blood-stained fingers..

            ..it was quite the moment..

            ..and i had an irony-overdose @ the sight..

            • emergency mike

              Most pathetic award: John Key for trying to hilariously pretend that the opposition not liking the idea of the taxpayer throwing cash at Sky City means that they suddenly really like the original Sky City deal.

          • Skinny

            I just finished watching Question Time. It was clear SkyCity is a distraction to the real issue which is the sudden resignation of Sabin and all the murky details surrounding it.
            It was a pity Peters had used up his allocated sups and lost the opportunity to jump in on the patsy question new Whangarei Nat MP Shane Reti asked Bridges.

            The Northland By-Election ‘will’ expose to the New Zealand public the cover up and corruption being harboured by National. I can pretty much guarantee this personally.

            • phillip ure

              and of course one of the biggest-lies told by key in that q-time..

              ..was the claim that he has ‘locks’ of hair..

              ..i looked real hard..

              ..but i cd see little signs of..

              ..’ tress – curl – or ringlet’..

  2. Jester 2

    I’m guessing we will see an apology from Andrew Little over calling Key a liar about being advised by police in August.

    • tc 2.1

      Yes because the police are sooooo trustworthy and honest whatever they say must be correct and they always obey the laws…..what planet have you been on lately.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.2

      That’s not what Little said, Jester. No mention of August, just that the PM was lying when he said he didn’t know until December.

      Looking forward to you apologising to Little, because you’re not a hypocrite, eh.

      • Jester 2.2.1

        All the evidence appears that he was only informed in December. Unless you wish to progress another theory that goes against what Key, the Police, and the media are saying.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Apart from the evidence the NBR has: that Key has known since last April and National since before 2011.

          Why does Sabin have so many cheerleaders? Are you still afraid of him?

        • Te Reo Putake

          What evidence? Key has provided none and the cops have said they followed the ‘no surprises’ policy.

          Be nice if you apologised for claiming Little said August when he didn’t.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            We won’t see any personal responsibility from a hypocrite.

            • Draco T Bastard

              It’s part of the characteristics of RWNJs. Despite demanding that people take personal responsibility for their actions they will never take responsibility for theirs unless they get some sort of benefit from it. On that latter point, they’re more than willing to take responsibility for someone else’s actions if they think that they can spin it to make it look like they did it. This is shown by National claiming success from what Labour led governments have done.

          • phillip ure

            @ trp..

            “..Be nice if you apologised ..”

            bloody hell..!..

            ..like you do when u r proven wrong..?


            ..goff has already snared todays’ hypocrite-award..

            ..so i’ll have to strike a special bare-arsed-cheek-award for u..

            ..it will be fast-couriered to you..

            • te reo putake

              Phil, the relatively few times I’ve got something wrong here, I’ve always put my hand up. A couple of times I’ve even outed myself before anyone else saw the mistake. I know I often argue my corner staunchly, but that doesn’t mean I’m not beyond admitting my errors. I suspect your problem is you’d like to be the one to find one, but they don’t live at the bottom of the bong, dude.

            • Skinny

              I turned the TV off upon hearing Lieutenant General Brownlee swat Goff’s (basically patsy) questions with ease.

              Did Goff end with a crisp military salute to Gerry?

              • nah..! he stuck on a headband..

                ..and a ‘peace-sign’ t-shirt..

                ..then shearer whipped out his gee-tar..

                ..and they banged out a couple of verses of ‘masters of war’…

                • Skinny

                  Shearer was shockingly disloyal to the team, he is no poker playein. nor the god botherer Nat whip showing his nervousness at Key getting grilled over the Shonkey Sky deal. Sitting there behind Davis looking sceptical at Kelvins line of questioning.

                  You know when you look at the hand Little has to play with, you really realise the opposition is fucked without Peters. Bit the bullet and run a few by elections, parachute some talent in.

              • greywarshark

                I thought good comments on Radionz from Ron Marks about defence force personnel going to Iraq.

                Also Phil Goff was very good.
                But Labour’s Defence spokesperson, Phil Goff, said the pretence that no Government decision has been made just was not honest.

                “The reason the Prime Minister [has given] for taking that decision isn’t honest either.
                “This isn’t about the need to protect human rights and fight evil. It’s about, as he admitted earlier, the price of ‘being in the club’ led by other countries such as Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States.”

                Mr Goff questioned what the New Zealand Defence Force could do that the Iraqi Army could not do for itself.
                “Over $25 billion has been invested by the United States over the past 10 years in training and equipping them, and that investment has made practically no difference.
                “Our efforts can do very little to help with the real problems of persistent corruption, deep sectarian divisions and poor leadership which lie behind the incompetence of the Iraqi Army.”

                Mr Goff says New Zealand would achieve more by providing humanitarian help to the millions of refugees caused by conflict in the region.

                • greywarshark

                  Just note that Phil Goff starts talking about 1.30 mins into the audio clip. Just in case you tire of listening to Key’s anguished rant about the awful things happening under ISIS. He is so tender hearted, and hasn’t heard of all the dreadful happenings that occur daily around the world. Really he’s too sensitive and unworldly to be PM. yek for gardening leave for the duration?

        • vto

          “All the evidence”? What evidence would that be you funny man?

        • mickysavage

          “All the evidence …”

          Tolley was told in August. She said the police did not tell her who the MP was but I would bet dollars to donuts she found out from other sources.

          Your friend Cameron Slater said this a couple of weeks ago:

          “What astonishes me is that National did almost nothing about this issue for months…despite knowing about it, all the way to the top.

          They just let Mike Sabin blow smoke up their arses despite plenty of concern outside of the party.

          When full details of what has transpired are revealed then there are going to be some serious questions asked of the leadership.”

          And that well known left wing paper the NBR is convinced Key knew last April.

          Time to open your eyes Jester.

          • jester

            NBR is “convinced”. Well that’s solid evidence Mickey.

            • mickysavage

              And Slater’s comment? Or is that too inconvenient to address?

              • Andrew

                Slater has also gone on record stating that Matt McCarten was directly involved in the hack of his emails.

                Yep, pretty credible that Slater.

                • mickysavage

                  I would pay no credence to anything Slater said about Labour but a lot of credence about anything he says about National. Besides rumours have been swirling around for a while.

                  • Naki man

                    “I would pay no credence to anything Slater said about Labour but a lot of credence about anything he says about National. Besides rumours have been swirling around for a while”

                    Anything negative Slater says about National must be true but anything negative he says about Labour isn’t true, Don’t you see how stupid that is. You cant have it both ways Mickey.

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t think Andrew Little exchanges texts with slater.
                      Apparently Key does, though.
                      That’s how it can happen both ways – one lot talk to him (to stab each other in the back, most likely), the other lot he makes shit up about.

                    • @ naki man..

                      ..no it’s not..

                      ..the credibility comes from him criticising his own..

                      ..what do u find so hard to understand about that..?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I wonder what percentage of Sabin apologists share his values, as opposed to simply suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

                • lprent

                  Yeah right. As I have said before. In my opinion Matt is a bit of a technophobe. He can use a cellphone.

                  A damn good thing really. He is a hell of a worker of people and people systems from what I have seen of him. Almost over-compensated in that respect….

                  Surely Cam Slater realises that? He should realise the effects of over-compensation. Cam appears to be vastly over compensated as being a hypocritical arsehole with delusions of grandeur and a reality of repeated incompetence.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              I suppose the NBR might suddenly have decided to alienate its entire client base by running with unverified information.

              On the other hand perhaps they simply did what journalists do and got a couple of independent confirmations before they went to press.

              I hope your loyalty to Sabin isn’t an indication that you share his values.

            • vto

              No jester, where is your evidence?

              You made a claim about evidence – so where is it?

              Have you not got any?

            • tricledrown

              NBR a right wing publication.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Tolley was told in August. She said the police did not tell her who the MP was but I would bet dollars to donuts she found out from other sources.

            Which has got to be another lie. There’s no point in the police telling the minister that an MP is under investigation under the ‘No Surprises’ policy if they don’t tell them who the MP is.

            • Murray Rawshark

              True. I very strongly doubt that she would have been informed without a name. How stupid do NAct think the electorate is? Stupid enough to vote Key in three times in a row?


            • Tom Jackson

              Like she wouldn’t have demanded to know who and for what.

        • framu

          its a shame that JK gave two different dates then isnt it

          which kinda does make him a liar

          and for that to even work we have to believe that JK finds out about such issues via a tip off from their opponents before any internal party channels tell him – which is just simply not believable

        • Draco T Bastard

          All the evidence appears that he was only informed in December.

          No, all the evidence (when the police told the minister) shows that National have known since before the election. Everything else that we’ve heard is National Making Shit Up to try and hide the fact that they knew before the election.

          • Treetop

            National are just on borrowed time for now, due to the suppression order of January 30 2015. The prominent person was remanded by a district court to reappear on 19 February 2015.

            Up to now national have not misled the house and this will continue until name suppression is lifted, (if lifted at all).

            A lot more water to go under the bridge on this topic.

            The House sits on 24 – 26 February 2015.

        • tricledrown

          Jestirer the Police haven’t told media when they told Key.
          But under no surprises Key would have been told about any serious prosecutions.
          Key has kept a lid on it till after the election combined with dirty politics it would have been a disaster.
          Now the perverbial has hit the fan not even Slater believes your pathetic attempt to smear little.
          Hope you have posted on WO.
          It seems only National MP’s can get blanket suppression orders even after the drafting of new laws reducing excuses for suppresion.
          It was Ironic that a former National MP who posted a suppressed former MP’s name got name suppression himself.
          Their needs to be an independent enquiry.
          If it were anyone on the left it would be all over the headlines like Dominique Straus Kahn.
          While Thatcher managed to cover up a spy associated to conseravative peer pedophile ring who managed to destroy evidence that would have prevented further predatory rampant abuse of victims.
          Its time for an independent enquiry into police and Justice dept behaviour.
          As these decisions lack of openess is essential so police Moral is not undermined.

          • Treetop

            Even an inquiry the Attorney General could embargo the full police or parliamentary evidence. This has been done before e.g. Colin Moyle incident 17 June 1975 (full police evidence is still locked up) and Sir Alfred North’s December 1976 inquiry was embargoed until mid April 1978. Prior to Christmas 1976 there was a partial release of information by the media, but the cop involved in the 17 June 1975 incident had name suppression until mid April 1978.

            Moyle was not charged with an offence.

        • McFlock

          Actually, the evidence points to two possibilities: either Key knew before december, maybe even august, or both tolley and eagleson were informed of a serious situation and withheld that information from Key. I suspect the former, because the latter possibility means that Key is routinely kept out of the loop on matters of nation-wide importance and therefore effectively does nothing as prime minister.

          I like to think that he actually does the job he was elected and paid to do. The fact that his sole responsibilities now consist of tourismand the prime minister’s office (with everyone else doing the heavy lifting) suggest that the role isn’t too onerous.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      Ministers knew unnamed MP was under investigation

      Various Government ministers knew an MP was under police investigation before the 2014 election, though they were not told who it was until later that year, according to the New Zealand Herald.

      Now, if you believe that various minister knew and that the PM didn’t and that they didn’t know who then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

  3. Jester 3

    Ah so it’s a conspiracy TC.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      The story keeps changing. That’s because it’s a lie.

      Key has known since last April. Take it up with the NBR.

    • tricledrown 3.2

      Jester you are dead right a conspiracy to keep bad news under wraps till after the election.
      Unbridled power and corruption of the police and justice system by National and its cronies.
      We need an NSW style enquiry to sort out any ambiguity.
      And a completely seperate police complaints Authority.
      The Police should be able to tell the Media within a maximum of 48 hrs of charging prominent people including politicians.
      One law for the powerful(predators rely on power to operate).
      One law for the rest.

  4. amirite 4

    The Sabin story has changed again. Apparently just before the election, the cops told two Ministers an MP was under investigation but did not name him. Then they apparently disclosed his name in November.
    Sure, sure.


    • Skinny 4.1

      As I have stated before Key & Joyce treated Sabin like a leper at an election forum that Sabin organised. They were not comfortable being there, when Sabin mucked up by insisting Key to take questions from the floor, where someone nailed him over the Northland’s broken roads & wasted money on the holiday highway, team Key sneered
      Sabin’s way, like your a liability, I laughed.

      Now the way Tolley is refusing to answer questions really stinks of a cover up, a deliberate cover up orchestrated by Joyce and Key.

      What was behind leaving this lap dog in place rather than cutting him is the question I’d like to know.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

        “Lap dog”?

        How do upstanding members of the community usually strengthen their positions: through their support networks.

        Sabin’s authoritarian support network in the National Party obviously wields considerable influence. You wouldn’t want to piss them off without a very good excuse.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          can’t help but wonder if Fletcher’s sudden departure is associated in here somehow …. maybe he couldn’t stand the growing stench?

    • Anne 4.2

      PM’s Office early August 2014.

      Present : John Key, Anne Tolley, Wayne Eagleson, Steven Joyce.

      Anne Tolley – The cops rang me yesterday. Apparently they’re investigating an MP.

      John Key – Oh yeah? Did they say who it was?

      Anne Tolley – No, didn’t mention it.

      Wayne Eagleson – Would you like me to check out police sources John.

      John Key – nah don’t bother. This is more interesting. I’ve got some designs for the new flag here. Have a look at them. Which one do you like the best?

      Yeah right!!

  5. Morrissey 5

    “President Barack Obama says that Russia’s aggression in the Ukraine….”
    Does Wendy Petrie ever think about what she reads out on air?

    Television One 6 p.m. News, Tuesday 10 February 2015

    Wendy Petrie first came to television viewers’ attention for a minor gaffe, caused by nervousness, on the very last evening of 1999. She was the weather presenter for TV3 at the time… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EBIj1L7KVc

    After her stint at TV3, Petrie moved to TVNZ, where some pathetic old git in management obviously noticed that she was a good looking young blonde. She was eventually promoted to the position of main news co-anchor and a huge swathe of taxpayers’ money was soon being spent on a slickly produced campaign to promote her, ridiculously and demeaningly, as a sex object. TVNZ viewers were inflicted for several months with a series of toe-curlingly embarrassing station promos, showing sad middle-aged males taking a break from their work to leeringly yell at the camera: “Wendy, she’s HOT!”

    In other words, TVNZ’s disgusting campaign treated her pretty much like the morons promoting the 2001 Heineken Open had treated Anna Kournikova. Eventually, however, someone—probably friends and family of Petrie’s—must have had a concerned word with someone in authority, because after a while the sex kitten thing was quietly retired, and Petrie was no longer the face of the future for the struggling channel.

    Petrie escaped the axe at TVNZ, but her star had faded; by 2009 she was reduced to doing live crosses from the street—the television equivalent of being the No. 11 batsman in a very poor cricket team. Even in that humble position, she managed to upset many viewers by crassly signalling her approval of the Bain retrial verdict…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M35WAmfPK68

    These days, despite being a regular fill-in newsreader, she has pretty much managed to languish in obscurity—deservedly so, for she doesn’t seem to have a single thought in her head. Of course, that makes her not a lot worse than the likes of her colleagues Rawdon Christie, Peter Williams, Simon Dallow and Greg Boyed.

    As any thoughtful and discriminating viewer is all too painfully aware, much of what is presented as “news” on television is nothing more than handouts from corporate PR firms, barely if at all modified, and extremely biased political cant. In spite of many years of watching television news, I’m still astonished when newsreaders manage to keep a straight face and read out some of the outrageous scripts they are given. Hearteningly, though, now and again these people DO register some kind of reaction, contriving to subtly undermine and cast doubt on the nonsense they are forced to mouth. Greg Boyed sometimes flinches and raises an eyebrow at the absurdity of the crap unrolling on his monitor, and Simon Dallow occasionally comes up with a troubled, conflicted look. I even saw Peter Williams frown last July, as he read out brutal and shameless canards, as if straight from the Israeli embassy, about the massacre in Gaza.

    But Wendy Petrie? No, I have never detected that there’s a thoughtful or serious person underneath that carefully maintained, pleasant exterior. Tonight she read out, in the most serious tone she could muster, another of those pieces of nasty propaganda masquerading as a news item: “President Barack Obama says that Russia’s aggression in the Ukraine….”

    What an honest and impartial news script would have said was: “President Barack Obama says that what he calls Russia’s aggression in the Ukraine….”

    Wendy Petrie, however, didn’t register even a flash of discomfort at what she was reading. This is only an instance, of course, but it’s a telling example of the way that newsreaders play a vital part in campaigns of disinformation, whether they’re compliantly using National Government distortions such as “reform”, “changes” and “restructuring” instead of “government cuts”, or reading out equally cynical, but far more ominous and dangerous, statements saying it is Russia rather than the neo-Nazi junta that is the aggressor in the Ukraine.

    • Te Reo Putake 5.1

      You missed the obvious pun involving ‘Petrie’ and ‘dish’, in your gender focussed assessment, Moz. And you also missed the bit where newsreaders are paid to read the news not editorialise. Despite your sexist summary of Petrie’s alleged weaknesses, the essence of your complaint is that she is too professional. Weird, huh?

      • Colonial Rawshark 5.1.1

        And you also missed the bit where newsreaders are paid to read the news not editorialise.

        Yep, they are repeaters not reporters

      • Morrissey 5.1.2

        You missed the obvious pun involving ‘Petrie’ and ‘dish’

        DAMN! I completely missed that slam dunk. That’s why you’re the man, Te Reo—fair play to you.

        in your gender focussed assessment

        In what way was my analysis of Wendy Petrie’s seeming lack of consciousness a “gender focussed assessment”? I mentioned that four of her male colleagues were more or less just as bad as she was. You need to read what I wrote once again, my friend, and I’m sure you’ll realize that what I was attacking was her almost preternatural lack of awareness, not her gender.

        newsreaders are paid to read the news not editorialise

        They editorialise all the time—like Petrie did after the Bain verdict—about things that don’t matter at all. So most of them manage to say something censorious about the silly antics of Kim Kardashian or Kanye West or some petty criminal, but they are too frightened to comment on the crimes and seriously outrageous words of Barack Obama, David Cameron and, of course, John Key.

        Despite your sexist summary of Petrie’s alleged weaknesses, the essence of your complaint is that she is too professional. Weird, huh?

        Could you point out how what I wrote was “sexist”? I pointed out that some old fool at TVNZ obviously salivated over Petrie and set in train that risible–and mercifully short-lived—advertising campaign. Obviously TVNZ was—maybe still is—an organization riddled with sexism as well as racism: does pointing that out make me somehow, magically, become the same as them?

        • Te Reo Putake

          Petrie didn’t celebrate the Bain verdict, she was celebrating a successful live cross. And importantly, she turned from the viewers and celebrated with a single other person to her right, maybe her producer, having thought the camera was off. So clearly not editorialising as you claim.

          Your review emphasised gender in a way you do not do when you critique males of the media. You suggest her entire early career at TVNZ was based on her looks not her ability. Without any evidence other than a single 30 spot among many supposed vox pops from the ad campaign for her and Dallow. You twice suggest she is empty headed and in one of those references you define her as being more empty headed than four male colleagues. You use phrases like “good looking young blonde” and “underneath that carefully maintained, pleasant exterior”.

          I reckon you should have a good think about your own rhetoric and see if you aren’t the real salivating old fool.

          • Morrissey

            Petrie didn’t celebrate the Bain verdict, she was celebrating a successful live cross.

            Sure. By the way, Te Reo, I have a bridge in Whanganui you might be interested in buying.

            You suggest her entire early career at TVNZ was based on her looks not her ability.

            It was, just like the entire career of the great gorgeous emptiness that is Simon Dallow. Can you perhaps point the rest of us to an example of this “ability” you suggest she possesses?

            I reckon you should have a good think about your own rhetoric

            I explicated her failure to register any human emotion as she read out a frightful, preposterous piece of political propaganda. I did not use rhetoric, except to describe the old goats at TVNZ who treated her as little better than a porn star.

            and see if you aren’t the real salivating old fool.

            I assure you that I have never salivated over Wendy Petrie. I did nearly choke last night, however, during her dreadful performance.

            • te reo putake

              Again with the sexism. It’s not “old goats” at TVNZ who see her as a porn star, it’s you. Why don’t you give up while you’re behind?

              ps glad you’ve accepted that she wasn’t editorialising. That was only central to your argument, after all.

              • Morrissey

                Some people would be upset, but I know you well enough now to simply be amused by how quickly you turn to personal abuse after failing to convince others that black is white and up is down.

                I don’t know what’s funnier—your insisting that it’s me, instead of the people that marketed her with the “Wendy, she’s HOT” slogan that treated her like a porn star, or your bizarre interpretation of her triumphal fist-pumping after the Bain verdict.

                • It’s not personal abuse, it’s pointing out an aspect of your behaviour in print. Remember, it’s you who claims that there was a ‘Wendy, she’s HOT’ campaign, you who claim that TVNZ exec’s hired her for her looks and you who wrote the sexist descriptions of her. Own it mate, it’s entirely your invention.

                  and re: the fist pump, all I can suggest is that you actually watch the video. My explanation fits the evidence, yours is complete and utter bollocks.

                  • Morrissey

                    It’s not personal abuse

                    You called my analysis of Petrie’s robotic news-reading “sexist” and “gender focussed”. If Petrie were Māori rather than Pākehā, I have no doubt you would have called me a racist.

                    Your behaviour on this occasion was abusive. Sadly for you, I do not get intimidated by that kind of nonsense, any more than I did by the desperate tactics of Messrs McFlock and Populuxe when they bayed that my criticism of a couple of incendiary hate comedians was anti-Semitic….

                    Open mike 29/12/2012

                    Open mike 24/12/2012

                    You’ll no doubt be encouraged to see that dear old McFlock has waddled up to support you. He’s a bit slow to the party, as always, but you need all the help you can get—even if it’s about as useful as mighty Tonga’s contribution to that surreally comical “Coalition of the Willing” in 2003.

                    • I would only have called your analysis racist if you’d focussed on race. In this case your analysis (and fantasies about Petrie’s career) were sexist, so I called you on that.

                      Still, no matter, I’m sure no one thinks any less of you because of one thoughtless piece. And I’ve no doubt you’ll be even more skillful in your future skewerings of other talking heads as a result of this discussion 😉

                    • Morrissey

                      And cheers to you too, Te Reo.

          • McFlock

            don’t let facts get involved.

            Moz’s little line about Petrie “signalling her approval of the Bain retrial verdict” links to the “fist pump” clip that took place before she even knew what the verdict was. They just knew that the jury were coming in, as is evident from the clip.

    • vto 5.2

      Couldn’t agree more morrissey about the crap that newsreaders have to read out.

      Of course it was the USA which overthrow the democratically elected government in the Ukraine.

      Yes that’s right – the USA effectively invaded Ukraine and threw out a government put in place by elections and voting of the people, by the people and for the people.

      The USA is the biggest rogue state in the world.
      The USA is a liar and a traitor to the people.

      The USA is out of control – of that there is no doubt. We must all be very very wary of such a state, particularly as our own leader is so in love with it.

      • thatguynz 5.2.1

        +1. There is an interesting youtube video of a Ukrainian politician addressing the Rada prior to the Maidan protests about a coming civil war within Ukraine fomented by the US Embassy. What happened subsequently? You be the judge.

    • So it wasn’t Russia who took over Crimea then? Damn Martians…

      Don’t trust the Russkies any more than the Yanks mate.

      • vto 5.3.1

        Of course not, but so many New Zealanders, who have been swamped by massive anti-ruskie propaganda since WWI and before, seem to think the yanks are different and can be trusted more.

        History and facts indicate bullshite

      • Draco T Bastard 5.3.2

        So it wasn’t Russia who took over Crimea then?

        No it wasn’t. What happened there is that the Crimeans voted, under the UN guarantee of self-determination, to move back to being Russian. The US didn’t like this after they’d gone to a lot of effort to overthrow Ukraine’s elected government and thus bring the Ukraine into their sphere of influence.

        Now it appears that East Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of the Ukraine either and the US is even more upset that people just won’t do what they’re told.

      • Colonial Rawshark 5.3.3

        Don’t trust the Russkies any more than the Yanks mate.

        Indeed. But Ukraine is not the US security neighbourhood. The Ruskies are naturally concerned about the USA wanting to put NATO missile bases in the Ukraine, just a few hundred kms from Moscow.

        The US wouldn’t look kindly on Russia trying to put missiles back on Cuba now, would they.

        • Ovid

          The US does not have any intermediate range nuclear missiles in its operational arsenal. Neither does Russia, for that matter. Under the New START treaty, they are both limited to 1550 active warheads on ICBMs, SLBMs and heavy bombers. There is an in-depth verification process that both parties follow to ensure transparency.

          Ukraine in 2015 is not Turkey in 1962.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Tactical nuclear warheads with yields of less than 10kt delivered by drones or nuclear tipped cruise missiles or various other delivery systems can take the place of intermediate range cruise missiles.

            Ukraine in 2015 is not Turkey in 1962.

            It’s not but the point remains – Moscow is not going to allow adversary nuclear forces to be stationed just hundreds of kilometres from it.

            • Colonial Rawshark

              Sorry I meant Intermediate Range Nuclear Missiles.

              I understand your point that the two situations are not analogous. Still you can guess what the US reaction to a new Russian airbase in Cuba would be.

    • DoublePlusGood 5.4

      That’s strange, saying the junta is the aggressor. I mean, Ukraine didn’t invade Crimea. Ukraine didn’t invade Donbass. I mean, yes, their government is unsavoury and the US is playing Xanatos Speed Chess manipulating in Ukraine, but Ukraine hasn’t invaded anywhere.

      • vto 5.4.1

        No, the EU and the US have. In the exact same way the EU and the US claim the Russians have

      • Draco T Bastard 5.4.2

        I mean, Ukraine didn’t invade Crimea.

        Russia gave Crimea to the Ukraine back in the 1950s when both were part of the USSR. The Crimeans didn’t like it then and have now decided to go back to being Russian.

        Russia didn’t invade the Ukraine, Crimea, of their own free will, left the Ukraine.

        • DoublePlusGood

          I’m aware of the history. There’s no ‘free will’ when there’s Russian troops and tanks everywhere. Chechnya, Ossetia, Ingushetia and Dagestan show that. And Ukrainians and Crimean Tartars didn’t get much of a say in things did they?
          And if Russia didn’t invade, did they give back to Ukraine the military equipment they stole in Sevastopol? Thought not.

          • Draco T Bastard

            There’s no ‘free will’ when there’s Russian troops and tanks everywhere.

            The reports were that neither Russian nor her troops pressured the civilians.

            Of course, the real question is: Did you say that when Iraq first went to the polls after the US invasion in 2003?

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Most of that “Ukranian military equipment” was Soviet era Russian military equipment.

            And who are you to deny a population the right to self determination? A vote was held and 96% of Crimeans under massive turn out voted to join the Russian Federation.

            Are you trying to suggest that another Crimean election held now under independent UN supervision would show us that the populace would majority vote to go with the morally, politically and financially unstable Kiev government?

            • DoublePlusGood

              You simply cannot fairly hold a referendum in such a short interval after troops have piled into an area. The actually responsible, mature country thing to do for Russia and Crimea would be to pressure Ukraine to give Crimea a referendum on independence, rejoining Russia or autonomy.
              The same could be worked towards in Donbass, Luhansk (both ~40% Russian, and ~70% native Russian speaking, though historically much less than this) and other eastern provinces of Ukraine.
              But no, tanks and guns. Mess everything up so Putin can claim the wreckage. And the coal.
              Regarding Iraq, I was thoroughly opposed to the US invasion. I was not following political affairs as closely in 2003, so I do not know the particulars of the vote you refer to.

              • McFlock

                But the troops “on leave” in the crimea were/are just sharing their goodwill. Rapidly. At 700m/s.
                Couldn’t affect a referendum at all 🙂

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Well it was Russian regular military who invaded Crimea.

                  It’s Russian troopers who are “on extended leave” who are hanging around in the Donbass…

                  • McFlock

                    Indeed. With so many rounds of goodwill.
                    If soldiers “on leave” but wearing “army surplus” uniforms and National party rosettes were hanging around election booths in otago, how free would you feel to vote left?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      You’re right, they should hold the elections again, run and monitored by neutral international observers.

                      Given what a shite job Kiev has done of ruling Ukraine (and bringing it to the edge of financial and energy bankruptcy) in the last 12 months, I think the pro-Moscow vote will go up on last time.

                    • McFlock


                      You’re as bad as fisi.

                      edit: I note you didn’t say that the first thing “they” should do is get their troops back to their side of the border

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Well, Russia is never going to let Sevastapol become a NATO base, so at least I am being realistic.

                      By the way are you against re-running the referendum? Like I said, the pro-Moscow vote is likely to increase. No one is Crimea is going to want to subject themselves to Kiev’s suicide draft.

                    • McFlock

                      Actually, I am against rerunning the referendum. The Russians screwed the pooch. They should pull out and let things stabilize, refugees return, that sort of thing.

                      But as you say, not realistic. So I think that if Russia is prepared to escalate, Europe should as well. They’ve seen how appeasement just results in more territorial demands. Maybe the next one will be further down the caucuses. At least Chechnya gave them a bloody nose for a while.

                      The nato base line was funny. Russia losing Sevastopol was as much an issue as the US losing guantanamo.

                      But at least you’ve stopped hiding behind the sham legitimacy of a so-called referendum, pleading realpolitik instead. “Pro-moscow vote is likely to increase” – lol. I’m sure RT reckons so. /sarc

            • Te Reo Putake

              The “massive turnout” was 30-40% apparently. And that was in a referendum held at gunpoint in which the retaining the status quo was not even an option on the ballot paper. It was a crock.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                “It was a crock”?

                You mean in your opinion if a referendum was held under fairer conditions, the people of Crimea would choose to return to Kiev control?

                “At gun point”

                There were barely two or three casualties in the Russian takeover of Crimea. Totally minimal resistance at “gun point.” Shows you the pro-Russian mood of the people there.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  No, I meant it was a crock. The option of staying in the Ukraine was not on the ballot, so it’s a completely moot point what might have happened in a fair referendum.

                  However you quibble, the vote was taken under the rule of the gun. It doesn’t matter if it was 3 deaths or 300, it was not democratic or legitimate.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    As I said to McFlock above, maybe you are right and they should re-run the referendum. Given what a political and financial shit fight Ukraine has descended into over the last 12 months, I think the pro-Moscow vote will increase.

              • Draco T Bastard

                The “massive turnout” was 30-40% apparently.

                I see you’ve been drinking the Kool-aid again. Wikipedia:

                The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 96.77 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 83.1 percent voter turnout.

                With that sort of turnout and that result I’m pretty sure that the people of Crimea, if they held the referendum under the ideal conditions that you demand, would still vote to join Russia. As the saying goes: Quantity has a quality that’s hard to argue with.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Keep reading the wikipedia page, Draco. There’s more info there than just the Russian state sponsored Koolaid you’ve been swallowing. For a start, you need to factor in the thousands who fled the Russian advance who couldn’t vote, then the thousands still there who just denied the opportunity to vote, then those that were too scared to either register or vote.

                  Funny old world when someone like you goes into defence mode for an oppressive state invading its neighbors. I was pretty sure you stood against that sort of thing.

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 6

    Operation Chokepoint is forcing US business to shut down by pressuring banks to close merchant accounts of businesses in certain industries. Among the targeted industries are dating services (??!), credit repair services and coin dealers.

    We’re all so much safer now.


  7. wyndham 7

    @ amirite.

    So the cops inform two ministers that an “unamed” MP is under investigation and neither minister delved further into who it might be ? That’ll take some believing !

    • and they don’t tell key/colleagues..?

      ..and what was that deputation of national party luminaries to sabin..way before the election..

      ..w.t.f. was that all about..?

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8

    Re: National Party values:

    Tolley just hung up on Ferguson. A stone wall.

    • mac1 8.1

      Yes, Tolley not willing to answer a fair question on a topic of public interest.

      Is this how journalists are going to fare with this government which has been stone walling, hanging up on the journalist, refusing to come onto radio where they may be questioned closely for some time?

      This has become a technique of unplausible deniability. Can’t be caught lying if you say nothing. If you can’t remember. Much easier for a deceitful person to remember what they haven’t said.

      Might the technique here to talk to a minister about ostensibly one aspect of his/her portfolio and then shift onto a more contentious area be a new tactic?

      • vto 8.1.1

        All signs of unease and pressure within the ranks perhaps?

        The ship has developed a list

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.2

        I can’t say I blame any of the vegetables for not wanting to discuss it openly. On the one hand, legal matters, on the other hand John Key has been lying very much, and on the other hand (three hands, yay!), Sabin’s National Party enablers haven’t gone anywhere.

      • ScottGN 8.1.3

        What was the question? I was out walking the dog.

        • mac1

          Along the lines of, “Since you were Minister of Police last year, when did you get told of the investigation into a certain MP?”

          I bet Brownlee and Tolley both wish they were out walking their dogs this morning.

          • Tracey

            you mean key didnt replace brownlee with Wilkinson so he could make her resign for his poor oversight later?

  9. Te Reo Putake 9

    Anne Tolley has just had a hissy fit on Radio NZ. Touchy, touchy!

    edit: snap, OAB!

    • Skinny 9.1

      She doesn’t like having to lie for Key of course she informed him Sabin was in the shit.
      Key downplayed the issue to her and now she is the fall gal.

      • adam 9.1.1

        Does beg the question Skinny – how many can Key throw under the bus – before the backbenchers revolt?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Where are they going to get votes from though? Team English? The extremist authoritarian bully faction?

        • Skinny

          Yes Adam
          Behind the scene the jockeying for the leadership has been bubbling away for some time.

          Joyce and Collins have been undermining each other. While Joyce like Key is more a centralist compared to Judith who positions herself further Right. Key backs Joyce and has aided him by removing dead end MP’s like Henare and others who Collins could have counted on for support.

          Sabin & son were called upon by Joyce to put the slipper into Collins while she appeared weak. Key was too frightened and gutless to remove JC when the milk company scandel broke, for fear of upsetting wealthy party backers that JC charmed and pulled to the party. Key was smart enough to be wary of Slater and his scheming with Collins. Look for him to be forced to bring Collins back on to the front bench as Nationals bench starts floundering under opposition and a turning media’s pressure. I do respect Collins for being the toughest Ministers the Tories have had.

      • Tracey 9.1.2

        They only like lying for themselves? Like when she and Bennett were asked about Cabinet Club…

  10. b waghorn 10

    Paddy Gower seems a bit quiet this morning I wonder if it’s due to him having to spend 2 minutes talking about all that’s going wrong for the godkey at the mo.
    Is that the wind of change blowing down the halls of power.

  11. mac1 11

    Defence Minister Brownlee on RNZ this morning responded to close Espiner questioning about how long he had been organising the armed forces into training for conflict with ISIS with a snarky “well you’d know much more than I do about that.” Not a good way to treat a journalist who do after all get the last word. As they say, never argue with the man with the microphone.

    The government’s lackey ministers like Tolley and Brownlee have been so long protected by Key’s fronting National’s media front that they’ve forgotten how to deal with journalists who are starting to themselves remember how to question closely and perseveringly.

    Key seems to be getting flustered more too- mocking, misquoting, misrepresenting other’s points of view seems to be more of his game now. How many times did he make fun of Little’s name in the speech yesterday on government’s intentions for 2015?

    Beyond the limits of humour, anyway.

    • Philip Ferguson 11.1

      I’ve always thought of Brownlee as the village idiot of the National Party. Unbelievable that he was once deputy-leader, although once they got near power they dumped him pretty quickly for the ‘dream team’ of Bill and John.

      Key doesn’t handle pressure well. When it’s all going his way he has a smarmy look; when it isn’t he has a kind of caught in the headlights look. I guess in the money markets he never had to front up to any sort of stiff questioning.

      The wheels may well start to come off in the third term, just as they did for Helen Clark (who was a lot like Key in my view).

      I don’t have any particular view of LIttle because the problem for anti-capitalists is not the leader of the Labour Party but the Labour Party *as an institution*. Whose side is it on?
      Here’s one view that it is clearly not on the side of the working class and oppressed: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/the-truth-about-labour-a-bosses-party/

      I’m just working on a piece in the next couple of days about the 1949 Auckland carpenters’ dispute; another indication of which class Labour is ultimately loyal to.


      • Tracey 11.1.1

        Brownlee knows where bodies are buried, that is the only plausible explanation from Nat party conference bouncer and bully boy to… to whatever he is today

  12. ankerawshark 13


    This has probably been posted already, but no harm in putting it up again.

    Glad to give some cash to this.

    • b waghorn 13.1

      I’ve said it before and I ‘ll say it again why can’t labour put a account numder on payment page for those of us clever enough not to do credit cards.

      • vto 13.1.1

        “those of us clever enough not to do credit cards”

        ha ha, well put. We are the authors of our own demise.

        Best moves are towards stepping out of the current financial system, in the same way people go offline.

        • Colonial Rawshark


          gradually going off grid, or “going dark” as the FBI term it

          • phillip ure

            i am partly doing that..’going dark’..

            ..no cellphone-connection..(just use phone to photograph documents..and the like…).

            ..no landline..

            ..can only be contacted by email…(and skype..)

            ..and i am fucken enjoying it..!

            ..and also increasingly noticing how everyone is slave to a little screen..

            ..if is frankly..fucken bizarre ..once you stop..and start looking/noticing..

            ..(and in more ‘strangely-gratifying’ old-skool ‘news’..)

            ..i have a daughter who lives in parts foreign..and we email/skype..

            ..but she sent me a post-card that i got the other day..

            ..and it is so cool..!..

            ..i can handle it/turn it over/hold it up in the air….

            ..i am/was surprised at how chuffed i was to get it..

            ..back to/for the future..!…(in parts..eh..?..)

            • Rosie

              +1 wags, CR. vto and phillip.

              Didn’t know the FBI term was “going dark”.

              Not sure if paranoid or just untrusting of comms technology in the hands of authorities but I have no need, want or the money for a smart phone. They can be easily tracked can’t they? And why develop a crook in your neck staring at useless bits of info when you can be observing your fellow humans, observing the fucked up edness, as well as the beauty of the changing seasons around you, and generally staying connected to the living world? How much electronic white noise to you need in your life?

              I have an old skool pre pay phone and spend about $20 on it every 3 months as it’s hardly ever used. I use cash. A credit card is used about twice a year for absolute emergencies only. Not on fb, not on twitter.

              I prefer it that way.

              Use the post. Send birthday cards to your friends. It will bowl over those who are over reliant of technology. They love it, a card in the post.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                They can be easily tracked can’t they?

                Absolutely easily. If the telephone company’s computers can direct an incoming call or txt to your phone, then they know where you are in the network down to the nearest cell tower. If your smart phone is GPS enabled, they will have your location down to the nearest 5m.

                • McFlock

                  Everything except the GPS applies to dumb phones, too.

                  And signal triangulation between towers is more precise than a simple radius around a particular tower.

              • “..How much electronic white noise to you need in your life?..”

                ..that is the nub of that conversation..

              • greywarshark

                @ Rosie
                Use the post. Send birthday cards to your friends. It will bowl over those who are over reliant of technology. They love it, a card in the post.

          • Tracey

            I am going back to cash… shopkeepers seem very frightened of it…

      • lprent 13.1.2

        Indeed. They have the “pull” for credit cards or direct debit. But not a simple bank account.

        However I suspect that the reasoning behind that has to do probably has something to do with collecting information about their supporters.

        • b waghorn

          That strategy of getting info is costing donations I bet , I personally am not against giving my details but I bet some possible donors shy away from it.

  13. vto 14

    I find it very amusing that we are supposedly superior enough in our military capabilities to be able to ‘train’ people in warfare who have been fighting wars since day dot. If anything I would have expected the middle east people to be training us.

    Of course everybody knows it is a ruse to free up US resources for more frontline activity. We are effectively on the frontline.

    Expect a Sydney-Ottawa-Boston-London event in NZ….

    Then point the finger directly at John Key

    • Murray Rawshark 14.1

      The Peshmerga could train our infantry. They are considered as the best light infantry in the world. A shame that FJK considers many of them terrorists because of the PKK. A Kurdish taxi driver was very happy that I knew about them and told me stories of the Turkish Army pissing their pants and running when the Peshmerga turned up. I was careful not to tip him in case FJK withdrew my passport for supporting terrorism.

      • Colonial Rawshark 14.1.1

        Have the Peshmerga train the Iraqi Army…yeah right, like that would ever happen.

        And that is part of the problem of the Iraqi quagmire.

  14. SaveNZ 15

    Labour and NZ First should work together and get that message out there, don’t vote National in the byelection!

    Where was National when Northland Flooded?
    Where was National when the PSA virus hit?
    Where was National when rates and insurance premiums have skyrocketed?
    Why are National selling off our power?
    Why are National selling off our state houses?
    Why are National selling off our farms?
    Why are National selling off our country?
    Why is National funding Real estate for Sky City?
    Do you want to get National’s attention?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      All mention of Northland is in breach of standing orders.

      • adam 15.1.1

        Northland is pretty

        Pretty with blue poo
        Pretty with blue doo
        Pretty with blanket bans
        Pretty and out of hand

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          A ban on blankets in Northland is being blamed for a spate of “cold shoulder syndrome”.

          Acting Chief Inspector Fiddler of the Dunedin Police, who are handling the situation, refused to comment, and then arrested himself.

          “I know too much”, said Acting Chief Inspector Fiddler.

          • SaveNZ

            I hope someone puts up a billboard asking why the minister of Tourism only holidays in Hawaii and Omaha not Northland?

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              That’s not going to look good on Imgur: “Dad and I playing golf with [redacted] in [redacted]

              • SaveNZ

                The convention centre can be called

                Sky ‘Joyce’ City….

                or maybe just the

                SkyJoy which is a bit of a KillJoy

                The grotesque convention centre will probably be empty and soul less, like the last National foray in real estate Shed 10 with the Cloud.

                In the name of monuments to ego’s, there is also a convention centre planned for Christchurch too,,,,

                The Brownlee

  15. Clemgeopin 16


    “10:20 AM Wednesday Apr 18, 2012

    Prime Minister John Key has confirmed he offered a deal to Sky City allowing the casino to have more pokie machines in return for building a multimillion-dollar convention centre. Mr Key, speaking from Indonesia, confirmed he made the offer to Sky City in his capacity as Minister of Tourism, Newstalk ZB reported…

    … Mr Key was asked last July in a question for written answer from Green MP Sue Kedgley whether he or any of his ministers had met representatives from the casino to discuss changes to the Gambling Act.

    He replied: “I attended a dinner with the Sky City board 4 November 2009 where we discussed a possible national convention centre and they raised issues relating to the Gambling Act 2003″. ”

    – Source


    * NO INCREASE IN GST—(From 12.5 to 15%..Fooled you!)
    * NO MORE ASSET SALES—(We will sell state houses!..Gotcha!)
    * NO TAX PAYER GOVT FUNDS TO SKY CITY, EVER!—(Ha, ha! Fooled you again, suckers!)

  16. Pasupial 17

    This has been interesting to follow over the past few days:

    Nazi Germany’s 3.5-year occupation of Greece was bloody and destructive. The Paris reparations conference in 1945 accepted calculations that estimated damage to Greece to amount to 7bn pre-war US dollars…

    Greece received 115 million Deutsche Marks – a sum that has since been subject to myths and legends from both sides of the Greek-German divide.
    Further compensation for war damages were denied, supposedly on the grounds that only a reunified Germany could agree to make such payments, but it was an open secret that Germany’s government actively tried to postpone the payment indefinitely (“until Greek calends”)– even after reunification… Once one reparation payment had been granted to one country, officials in newly unified Germany with urgent investment needs in the east asked themselves where it would end.

    Yet it’s important in this case to make a distinction between reparation payments for war crimes and repayments of so-called Besatzungsanleihe: monthly loans demanded from the Greek government in 1942-44 to pay for the maintenance costs of the Greek army and further military activity in the Mediterranean… 476m Reichsmarks, which would be roughly €10bn today.


  17. adam 18

    Lynn, I think Pat O’Dea’s comments at the dailyblog are insulting to other authors here at the standard. Especially Bill, and all the fine – well thought out, and written post he has done on man made climate change.

    If you get ban people – read what Lynn sends you – read the rules around posts, and learn what the standard expects. Your the guest here – would you walk into a house and put you muddy shoes on someone’s couch? Or walk into someone’s house and change the TV channel on them?

    Sorry – but, this pisses me off. If you get banned don’t complain about it. Adult up, and take responsibility for your own comments.

    As someone who was banned – I accept my comment broke the standards and I deserved what happened. Please if you cop a ban – do the same, then come back and try to be constructive.

    Why is it anarchists, get that people have their own standards and expectations, and we can respect them for it. We may disagree – but, and quite frankly – respect is a very simple concept.

    • lprent 18.1

      Pat does appear to have an agenda. For all of his talk about the left working together, it appears that his actual (unthoughtful) view on it is effectively that everyone should think like him and listen to the font of his obsessions. He reads more like a poor evangelist than someone anyone could really work with. It is also a pity that his grasp of climate change issues reads a bit like that of an excitable adolescent or a climate change denier.

      Anyway, I have been using the posts over there (when I have time) as an opportunity to carry on eliciting and widening the actual moderation policies at The Daily Blog. It is a bit of a moving target at present, and post-election I think that the uncertainty is contributing rather too much to their falling readership.

    • Murray Rawshark 18.2

      I haven’t been banned yet and don’t really want to be, but I’d prefer a truce between lprent and Bumbler. Anyone who starts a blog must have a healthy ego, and I think them for doing it, but the Romans are the real enemy. Aqueducts were OK, but their weird sex and convention centres are taking things a bit far.

      As for Pat, he’s been a bit uncompromising ever since I’ve known him. I probably am too, but it’s more important to me to inspire thinking than having people agree with me. Just as well, I suppose.

    • left for deadshark 18.3

      Some very good points my friend,but (Adult up) come on.For the love of Adult kind. 😉

  18. From DPF @ Kiwiblog: “Greens host GE deniers conference at Parliament”

    “89% of scientists think GM food is safe, a slightly higher percentage (88%) who think humans are mostly responsible for climate change.”

    Given that 48% of Meteorologists are skeptics and survey after survey shows that two-thirds of geoscientists and engineers are skeptics, the 87% figure “across the sciences” seems hard to believe. 3748 members of AAAS took the survey — and as A.Scott points out on WUWT in comments, only 7% of the respondents were from the Earth Sciences, and nearly half were “biomedical”.


    Engdahl carefully documents how the intellectual foundations of ‘eugenics,’ mass culling of the sick, coloured, and otherwise disposable races, were actually first established, and even legally approved, in the United States. Eugenics research was financially supported by the Rockefeller and other elite families and first tested on Jews under Nazi Germany.

    He describes how the Rockefellers guided the US agriculture policy, used their powerful tax-free foundations worldwide to train an army of bright young scientists in hitherto unknown field of microbiology. He traces how the field of Eugenics was renamed “genetics” to make it more acceptable and also to hide the real purpose.


    • McFlock 19.1

      It gets even worse than that:

      Francis Galton (the Englishman who developed the term “eugenics”) was also a pioneer in meteorology, so meteorologists are unreliable, and they named the field after an astrological method of predicting meteor impacts (according to someone on the interwebz). /sarc

      • The Murphey 19.1.1

        Q. Does it occur that by responding to such posts in the manner and frequency you do is an exposé of your self proclaimed ‘exceptionalism’ ?

        • McFlock

          when did I self-proclaim “exceptionalism”? Got a link for that?

        • McFlock

          … I guess your were just making shit up in a fire-and-forget piece of pretentiousness.

          • The Murphey

            Q. Launchpad McDuck surely you recall claiming to be ‘an exception’ regarding the flying aircraft ?

            Lack of take off and landing abilities seemingly no obstacle to your self proclaimed ‘exceptionalism’

            Woops 2

            • McFlock

              links or it didn’t happen, liar.
              When did I call myself exceptional, you pretentious idiot?

              • The Murphey

                Q. Have you genuinely forgotten the conversation ?

                • McFlock

                  I believe I recall the conversation to which you claim to be referring, but the conversation I recall is so distant from what you seem to now be recollecting that maybe you are referring to another conversation which I have since forgotten.

                  Even if the conversation in question went as you remembered it (which seems to be pretty doubtful), I never called myself anything like “exceptional”. In fact, the idea that I am fairly unexceptional was intrinsic to the point I recall making.

                  So how about you link to it, just so everyone can see how fucking deluded you are? Is your ego so fragile that you are incapable of even that?

                  If you are anything other than a liar or delusional blow-hard, linking to a conversation where I explicitly or implicitly stated that I was “exceptional” should be pretty simple.

                  • The Murphey

                    But given that I’m an exception to your “qualified, licensed“……

                    You are exceptional McFlock

                    • McFlock

                      You’re really going with that, are you?

                      Me saying that I’m “an exception” to a bullshit delusion you have does not mean I’m “exceptional“. Indeed, if my abilities were unusually good as well as contradicting your general[ly stupid] rule, then that would have defeated my own point. The fact that I am unexceptional means that pretty much anyone can do it once they know where the important switches are.

                      Now I’m glad that Ure is unintelligible for the most part – he’s easy to skip over without reading, where as your comments are just as facile and egotistical as his, but initially tend towards the vaguely possible. And then we drill down to what you’re actually saying, and you turn out to be a fucking idiot with more ego than braincells.

    • Rawsharkosaurus 19.2

      I notice he doesn’t give the percentage of dairy farmers who do not think GE swedes are safe, after last year’s cases of mass cattle fatalities.

      • greywarshark 19.2.1

        I looked at those fatalities. And there are more factors to consider than GE. How much of the deaths were connected with GE? Could you give a link? I would have to look back through my stuff to find what I put up.

        • Rawsharkosaurus

          Definitely worth checking other possible causes, but much of what I’ve read on the subject indicates that the stock losses are closely linked to GE swedes – “a strong link” as quoted in this article.

    • tricledrown 19.3

      Genoreinhart propaganda site.
      Ulgy truth.
      Cherry picking spurious facts.
      You should not stop watching Fox news.
      Otherwise you might have to live up to your name!

  19. Philip Ferguson 20

    Where did our time go to?

    There was a time when capitalism was able to substantially reduce the working week, albeit not without workers having to struggle to achieve the 40-hour week.

    Nevertheless there was a very substantial reduction. Whereas in the decades following the Industrial revolution, workers in Britain were working 60 or 70 hours a week, this was progressively reduced. In NZ, the 40-hour week was won without massive battles.

    A century on, then, shouldn’t we be down to a 20-hour week?

    Keynes in 1930 suggested that before the end of the twentieth century this would be the case. Instead there was the Great Depression and WW2. However, after WW2 came the long postwar economic boom, from late 1940s to early 1970s.

    Since the end of that boom there has been nothing comparable. Capitalist economies have returned to a shorter boom and bust cycle, with the booms increasingly being short and centred in the artificial economy (or around individual sectors) and the busts have been deeper and more protracted, eg the fallout from the GFC.

    Far from shortening, and us now enjoying the benefits of living in a leisure society, as capitalist ideologues promised in the 1960s at the height of the boom, we are living in a period of the extension of work hours – more working hours a week and, in some countries, more working years as the retirement age has been extended – an example being in the south of Ireland, courtesy of the Fine Gael-Labour government (one of the reasons that Labour was decimated by Sinn Fein in the local and Euro elections there last May).

    Here’s a really interesting article we reprinted on Redline from Socialist Alternative in Australia about capitalism and the tyranny of time: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/capitalism-and-the-tyranny-of-time/

    And here’s some reflections/analysis on whatever happened to the leisure society: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/whatever-happened-to-the-leisure-society/


    • Ad 20.1

      I’d be happy to agree that the poorest workers are the most surveilled for time.
      Also happy to agree that digital surveillance now enables this more finely.

      But I’m not so sure of the proposed clean break between industrial and pre-industrial step change in time-oppression.

      Those who are at the lowest rungs of society have always been at the whim of the master, day or night, rational or irrational, reasonable or unreasonable. Granted there are minor and brief historical exceptions. But that’s what they are.

      Also, we are in the era of headphones, digital games, and other time-suspensory maenads that resist the force of analogue time with both time and space independent of hard reality. At minimum, they can have eight hours of my meat-time oppression, but now I can form new times and spaces until my next shift. Time becomes my game.

    • Colonial Rawshark 20.2

      Workers are getting too little a share of national income and shareholders/corporates too much. And the unemployed sweet FA.

      If workers were all getting a fair share of national income everybody would be on a living wage and not having to work more than 4 days a week if they didn’t want to.

  20. dv 21

    Eminem taking National Party to court next week


    I wonder how much that could cost them?

  21. SaveNZ 22

    Noam Chompsky Solution to ISIS…..

    And to solve the mess, the US again decided to act against the international law, building an anti-ISIS coalition that is “meaningless, apart from being illegal.”

    “A law-abiding state would go to the Security Council, ask for a declaration by the Security Council of a threat to peace, and request the Security Council to organize direct response to it. And that could be done. The US could then participate in it, but so could Iran,” which is a major military force and would probably wipe out ISIS in no time, if it was allowed to join the fight on the ground, Chomsky believes.


    • Chooky 22.1

      +100…thanks for that….makes a lot of sense…a political solution through the UN is the only way to go

      (I doubt however that the Israelis and the Saudis would agree….because they both have their own agendas in the Middle East and want to cripple Iran and Assad/Syria )

  22. ScottGN 23

    Wouldn’t it be good if even just one of the media outfits in NZ took our parliament seriously and livestreamed Question Time like they routinely do in Australia, Canada and the UK?

  23. wyndham 24

    Key looking tired, disinterested at Question time today. Not to mention distinctly uncomfortable when questioned about the Sky City fiasco. Both he and Joyce (confidence man extraordinaire) appeared to be backtracking when they weren’t downright evasive.

    • ankerawshark 24.1

      Agree entirely Wyndham about Key at question time. Just seem it on Prime News.

      Key trying to crack jokes and not looking funny. And although I don’t approve as such of Peter’s mentioning Key dyes his hair, I think it is making him look ridiculous and pathetic (sometimes means justifies the ends????) And although two wrongs don’t make a right, Key has been a B…….doing this to others.

      • Anne 24.1.1

        If you’re referring to Question time today ankerawshark, it was Key who brought it up not Peters. All Peters did was ask the perennial question “Does he have confidence in all his ministers”. He was planning to attack Steven Joyce and the Sky City shambles. Key anticipated as much so he diverted the question to his hair. The exchange that followed was actually very funny on both sides, so much so even the Speaker was laughing too much to intervene.

        There’s nothing wrong with a bit of levity from time to time… and then it was back to serious business so nobody got off the hook.

        • ankerawshark

          Thanks Anne, Only saw the snippert on Prime. Sounds like I got the wrong end of the stick.

          Still think it makes Key look a bit of a dick that he (clearly does) dye his hair.

      • freedom 24.1.2

        I have never understood how he gets away with starting every question time trying to be the funny guy. You would think his own Party would mention it at least once. A quiet hand on the shoulder as they turn into the chamber ‘John, stop trying to be the funniest guy in the room, you’re good but no-one can be George Burns everyday. Look what that did to George Burns.

        But seriously folks, when did you last see the Prime Minister, especially when answering a sombre question, simply stand and show respect for the House of Representatives, the central institution of our nation’s governance.

        • McFlock

          yeah but that’s part of his vibe – avoid responsibility

        • greywarshark

          Don’t bring up George Burns as an example. He lasted well into very old age. We don’t want to have yek around that long.

  24. greywarshark 25

    I was thinking of buildings that the UNACT government have taken an interest in, besides casinos, and one they didn’t like was Broadcasting House in Wellington and there was one they ‘lost’, referred to in the finance committee report, in Auckland.
    And then there is the matter of what went on in the buildings, public broadcasting.

    Some quotes and links:
    Comment on public concern at last attack on public broadcasting:
    The difference this time is the public support for New Zealand’s last public service broadcaster – back in the 1990s, when there was a move to remove public broadcasting – massive campaigning by the station itself was needed to raise awareness.
    NewsRoom business website founder and editor Peter Fowler led the 1996/1997 campaign against the demolition of Radio NZ’s home in Wellington.
    “The destruction of Broadcasting House next to Parliament was scandalous and needless, but a good example of the regard Radio New Zealand has been held in by past National Governments,” he says.

    When Broadcasting House was demolished in 1997 – after it mysteriously caught fire – Radio NZ not only lost its base, but also a symbol for public broadcasting.
    “One major effect was the loss of some of the best studios in the Southern Hemisphere. I regard the attack on Broadcasting House as just another example of the attack on public broadcasting itself. What better way to demoralise someone than to evict them and demolish their home.”
    Radio New Zealand lost the building, but saved broadcasting.


    This is an interesting report from 2003-4 from the government committee looking at the finances and running of Radionz. Murray McCully and Kathryn Rich gave them a thorough hammering.

    Political coverage, balance and fairness
    Some of us are concerned that Radio NZ is not maintaining an appropriate balance and fairness in its politi cal coverage, and believe that particular programmes with
    substantial political content, such as Checkpoint have consistently under
    represented some political parties in recent years. Radio NZ assured us that balance and fairness is maintained, if not on an individual programme basis, across programming as a whole….

    Then on why Radionzs audience research should cost $145,000 yet not be able to be compared to those of commercial broadcasters. McCully was not happy with the explanation because as a stakeholder he thought he should be able to measure them (though completely different) together.
    Let’s get a couple of things straight here. You accept that Radio New
    Zealand’s actually owned by the taxpayers of New Zealand – the citizens of
    New Zealand – that we are stakeholders, and you’ve got some basic
    obligation to report to us. You do agree with that?
    I do.
    And you spend $145,000 of our money, if you like, collecting ratings
    information. Right? That ratings information, in addition to the cume figures,
    which I regard as meaningless but which you regard as meaningful, in
    addition you collect the audience figures on a basis that is roughly
    comparable to the commercial sector

  25. greywarshark 26

    Thanks for all your work. But I just noticed that this post is dated 11/1/2015 – January instead of February

  26. Morrissey 27

    Nobel Peace Laureates Slam Human Rights Watch’s Refusal to Cut Ties to U.S. Government

    Human Rights Watch’s affiliation with ex-CIA and NATO officials generates perverse incentives and undermine its reputation for independence.

    Read more….


    Ken Roth Confronted on HRW’s Revolving Door to U.S. Government

  27. Incognito 29

    John Roughan’s hagiography of John Key is going to be made into a movie “Fifty Fades of Key”. Some scenes involve holding people of a barrel while shafting and screwing them. The main character has a speech impediment, voluntary bouts of amnesia, and appears to be “relaxed and comfortable” with the suffering of others. In the movie several henchmen write blogs that are a worse insult to the human intellect than Vogon poetry. Casting has already started but many wannabies had to be hospitalised after reading the script. OSH is investigating but Steven Joyce thinks it is pretty legal.

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