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Open mike 11/04/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 11th, 2011 - 222 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

222 comments on “Open mike 11/04/2011 ”

  1. chris73 1

    Its funny but I’ve been banging on for a while now about Labours problems (and of course being told how wrong I am) about how the direction of Labour is wrong, getting away from their background etc etc
    So its quite nice to see a Labour MP shares similar views:
    I wouldn’t put it quite like this but you get the point

    • The Voice of Reason 1.1

      The point being that you are homophobic, chris? Nice one.
      O’Connor has managed to burn off most of his support within caucus and the wider party. It’d be great if he wins the West Coast seat back, but if he has to attack the rainbow section of the party to do it, it’s probably better he doesn’t. Actually, attacking the miner’s union will probably make sure he doesn’t get back in, so fail all round, I would have thought.

      • sean 1.1.1

        Resorting to name calling because you don’t want to discuss his comment?  Exactly the same to people being called racist when they disagree with the Maori party.
        Given the screaming heap that Darren Hughes and Chris Carter went down in, many people would agree with Damien O’Connor.  And alternatively, if Labour becomes overridden with Unionists the same effect is going to happen.
        Given that National is at 54% in the latest CB poll, I would tend to say O’Connor has a lot of merit in what he is saying.  It can’t be all because of Phil Goff/Annette King’s incompetence.

        • Daveo

          I think it’s a bit rich for a man who lost the most working class seat in NZ to a guy who closely resembles toad of toad hall to be bleating on about how he represents real New Zealanders.

        • The Voice of Reason

          O’Connor’s remark was homophobic, Sean, and Chris agreed with it, so it’s not name calling to point that out. And I did discuss his comment, ya dickhead.

          Who gets called racist for disagreeing with the MP? Citation, please. There are plenty of unionists in the Labour caucus already, including a few who have never been full time union officials, just members. So what’s your point?

          • sean

            The point being, you laid into Chris calling him homophobic, when he wasn’t being.  Hate the game not the player…….
            O’Connor could have been more diplomatic in what he said (which is what Chris actually did), but the reality is its what a lot of people are thinking, but are too scared to say out loud because of the overbearing PC-ness that we have to put up with these days.

            • Mac1

              sean, if being PC means being inclusive and tolerant, then I’m PC.

              If being ‘non-PC’ is a cover for homophobia, bigotry in all its forms, prejudice, intolerance and hatred- then I’m glad I’m not in that number. Sorry for the tautology but I thought you might recognise at least one word here.

              sean, ‘non-PC’ is a code-word for these anti-social, un-Christian, values which good parents, teachers and ministers all teach against.

              Just though you should know which team you are supporting here.

              • millsy

                I bet you that those shoving Jews and Gypsies into the ovens at Dachau would have identified themselves as ‘non-PC’.

                • Mac1

                  The horrific thing was, millsy, that the shovers became the shovees, having bought themselves (at what cost?) three to six months reprieve.

                  I certainly can’t judge them, nor do I want to be in the situation where I could know enough.

                  Though it is said, as I muse on, that the people with the best chance of surviving the death camps were those who acted to help others survive.

                  • millsy

                    <p>Mac, I am talking about those who devised the \’Final Solution\’, not the poor people who \’co-operated\’.
                    I should have made myself more clearer. I have issues with that…</p>

                    • Mac1

                      millsy, I gathered you meant the devisers, so you were clear enough. I chose to read the meaning I gave it, having just seen a programme on Sky recently. Those planners were psychopathic and would not have cared about labels, except they were careful about putting things on paper, since some Germans objected to the slaughter of their own mentally ill, hence the use of code words such as ‘final solution’ and ‘firewood.’

                      There are only degrees of difference between ‘non-PC’ and ‘final solution’ as a linguistic cop-out.

                      anti-spam ‘misunderstanding’ !

                • sean

                  Godwins law already…..thanks, I won :-p

                  [lprent: pwned arguments or any variant on those sorry arsed flamewar starters are a very fast way to attract my moderating attention. This is strictly an agree to disagree forum. In my opinion having to resort to such hackneyed troll tactics indicates a inability to debate, so I reward repeating offenders with time to review their lack of skills.

                  You’ve been around for long enough to know that. But you have generally behaved this time around. Have a weeks rest. ]

            • The Voice of Reason

              Ah, diddums. O’Connor was homophobic, Chris73 was as well by agreeing with the comment and now you reckon people are too scared to come out and be openly homophobic because it’s all so PC these days. C’mon!

              Don’t know what planet you’re on. sean, but here on earth, people have been openly homophobic about Labour since at least the point at which Helen Clark became leader. If chris wanted to be diplomatic he could have done so, but he didn’t. As usual, he came up with a few concern troll lines and an endorsement of O’Connor’s stupid remarks. If he wants to weasel out of his own words, let him. But you are wasting your time trying to do it for him.

              • Vicky32

                and be openly homophobic because it’s all so PC these days. C’mon!

                Okay, I am coming out and saying, by your standards, I am ‘homophobic’. (Homophobia by the way, isn’t even a thing.) I hate that men who hate women (and no matter how they pretend for a while, gay men do, as gay men I know have freely told me) have power over others by threatening them with being thought bigots and the kind of people who set up Hitler’s death machinery.
                For goodness’ sake, grow up! What a disgusting comparison.

                • millsy

                  <p>Deb, here is DOC\’s words that are slightly edited, seeing as you have concerns about my allusions to the Holocaust:
                  <blockquote>Labour leader Phil Goff says list MP Damien O\’Connor will be told to apologise to caucus for saying the party\’s list selection is run by \”self-serving Jews and a gaggle of gypsies\”.</blockquote>

                  • Vicky32

                    Sorry, Millsy, that’s even more childish! Although it’s conveniently forgotten now, Hitler’s concentration camps contained not only Jews, but gypsies, Slavs, gays, pacifists, Christians and people with intellectual and physical disabilities.
                    But that fact does not mean that you can claim that O’Connor was saying he’d like to throw gay men into concentration camps! It’s the same morally bankrupt argument I have seen equating ‘homophobia’ (which as I’ve said isn’t even a real thing!) with racism.
                    I’ma stick my neck out here and say that ‘gay is a choice’. Black isn’t. ‘Nuff said.

                    • Carol

                      ‘homophobia’ (which as I’ve said isn’t even a real thing!)
                      I’ma stick my neck out here and say that ‘gay is a choice’.

                      Well if it was a choice, life would have been so much easier growing up back in the days when homophobia was an extremely oppressive force. I would have chosen to be heterosexual… I tried very hard to be that. I’ve seen many incidents of homophobia ever since then, and know people who’ve been bashed as a result of it and ones who’ve committed suicide.  It certainly does exist.
                      And isn’t it a little contradictory to say that homophobia doesn’t exist, that gays were put in concetration camps during the 3rd Reich, and to say it’s a “choice”?

          • Vicky32

            Who gets called racist for disagreeing with the MP?

            I have been called racist for saying that Louisa Wall is a Maori! To which I could only say wtf?
            I also, horrifyingly, agree with sean, that O’Connor has a point regarding the ‘rainbow’ people. I heard one of them on Nat Rad this morning, throwing such a tanty and screaming “homophobia!!!!” at the top of his lungs. Does Labour not get that bumping people up the party list because they’re gay or because they’re Maori actually is a very bad look. They may actually turn out to be very good MPs. But those of us who don’t belong to protected groups might well  think “Oh she’s there because she’s Maori, or he’s there because he’s gay. I think I’ll go with the Greens or Alliance, their candidate might also be gay, but they are not claiming credit solely for that!

            • Carol

              What evidence is there that the 3 gay MPs on the Labour list got bumped up because they are gay?  On the gaynz forum someone said that Louisa Wall and Lliane Dalzielle chose not to be on the list because they want to focus on the electorate campaign.

            • Jum

              I was listening to Radio New Zealand this morning and the person did not scream.  So don’t be so silly.

            • Anne

              Does Labour not get that bumping people up the party list because they’re gay or because they’re Maori actually is a very bad look.

              That’s bollocks!  Labour does nothing of the sort. What they try to do however is make sure the list is representative of all members of the Labour Party, regardless of race, creed or sexuality, and that it covers as wide a geographical spread as is possible.

              I think you are following the spin line that suits your personal prejudice Vicky 32.

            • lprent

              They don’t. The only person I can see trying to claim special privilege here is O’Conner.

              I haven’t seen anything to impress me with Damien O’Connor. That is almost certainly why he was so far down the list.

              Pass me the constitution. I am tired of idiots inside of the party using news media to play internal politics. I think it is time for the party members to start to ban them for their behavior. I am sure there will be a procedure to do exactly that.

              Let’s start a wee movement. Foulup as a MP in a way that uses tge media to relitigte a argument you lost by going to the media

              • Mac1

                These words come to mind from an older hand. Loyalty and discipline. Party before self. Cause before ambition. Thinking before reacting. Consulting. Process.

                I agree that some disciplinary measure should be invoked. 

                Wouldn’t mind giving the lecture that goes with it. 

              • PeteG

                Mustn’t show any sign of different thoughts or ideas outside the party. Toe the line, everyone must hum the same monotonous slogans. Of course within the party a little bit of robust debate is ok as long as it doesn’t stray too far from the ideologies, but the public shouldn’t see through the blandness.
                If they try to clamp down on freedom of speech too much they risk becoming labeled
                a piddling of parlies.

                • lprent

                  The whole point about a party is that it is a forum to argue within. I support anyone dissenting inside the party. There are forums like this to engage in outside in the ongoing arguments across the Left.

                  But pulling a straight party matter outside in a manner designed to cause damage for political advantage against colleagues is just stupidity as far as I am concerned. Read my post on Chris Carter to find out exactly how much I dislike and despise it.

                  I am tired of tolerating Labour MP’s doing it. It is distracting, not particularly useful, and tends to waste a lot of my efforts in trying to get the party back on the treasury benches.

                  I want to take one of these arseholes abusing my trust and crucify them. Moreover, I would prefer if it is done by the membership. It is time to find out how to achieve that aim.

                  • PeteG

                    The risk you run is that, while going to great lengths to have a diverse (possibly too diverse) party list, you then want to suppress any outward sign of diversity.
                    Surely there should be a balance of freedom of open expression and party responsibility.
                    I’d much rather hear and know what individual MPs think rather than getting fed
                    a groan of groupspeak, carefully controlled by a paranoia of power seekers.

                    • lprent

                      Inside the party. That is the whole point of joining and working for one. Cooperating brings greater benefits in terms of results to all than would be achievable with a group of individuals working against each other. That was the formation basis of the labour movement. For that matter it is the forming principle of companies and this site as well.

                      If people don’t want to adhere to that basic coop principle of arguing within the joint rules that they agreed to on joining or made later, then I can’t see why I need to exert effort for their benefit – however indirectly. I will use those rules to remove them from the cooperative – that expresses my opinion of their behavior quite succinctly.

                      I realize that you still cleave to that 18th century ideal of independent gentlemen all working independently for the great good. But political parties coalesced because it simply didn’t work for anything important.

                    • RedLogix

                      Lynn explained it to you very carefully. Try reading what he said again.
                      Political parties are full of internal dissent and discussion, it is eternal and essential. But political parties are also required to show unity of purpose in action.
                      O’Connor by giving into an emotional impulse to lash out and damage that unity has proven that he is unfit for public office.

                    • felix

                      a diverse (possibly too diverse) party list

                      Meaning what exactly? How, with representation as the aim, can a list be “too diverse”?

                    • PeteG

                      Too much emphasis on diversity, not enough emphasis on electability and ability to run a government.

                      Using a sports analogy, the All Black selectors don’t make sure their team represents every union and ethnic group in the country, they have a team strategy and select people with the ability and team skills to win. Ultimately with test rugby, and politics, winning is what is most important.

                      I guess it depends on whether people prefer a potpourri party or a great government.

                    • lprent []

                      If we were only interested in electability then we’d have a party of ineffective lightweights like National does.

                      The slate isn’t drawn up solely on electability reasons. It is drawn up to retain parliamentary skills, bring new blood in to gain those skills, to draw in representation for areas that would otherwise get overlooked (ie why Dunedin is over represented), and to ensure that when elected Labour is able to govern.

                      You can see the effect of your view in National’s current performance. They are clearly not able to govern effectively. probably the clearest symptom after the economy is how often they have used urgency in the house. Speaks of their lack of organizational skills.

                    • felix

                      Note my words “with representation as the aim”.

                      Your answer suggests otherwise.

                  • Carol

                    To me it’s not a matter of a person never criticising their party publicly – but then I’m not a member of any party.  However, these words by Mac1 strike a chord for me:

                    Cause before ambition.

                    At a time when we need MPs standing up for the people and public services struggling financially, and against NActMU policies that make it harder for working people, O’Connor’s criticisms of Labour seem to be all about his own status.  What’s he doing for Kiwi battlers?

                    • PeteG

                      What about these words that I just though of

                      Pointing out the obvious.

                      I realise it’s not what a party will want to hear having just worked hard on and committing to a new party list, but O’Connor feels that the provinces are neglected, I’ve suggested provincial neglect, the location of Labour seats suggests a lack of appeal problem outside the main urban areas, and Labour are stuck with it for another election.

                      O’Connor may not have helped the cause for this year, but the medium term Labour cause should take heed.

                    • lprent

                      Yep, and there is that as well. With the exception of this I haven’t seen his head over the parapet in the last couple of years in public on anything else. That doesn’t mean much.

                      He could have been advocating on the behalf of his electorate, because he is probably an effective electorate MP (even they lose elections some time – ask Phil Goff).

                      But since the order of the list for the sitting MP’s is largely set up by the MP’s (but with a couple of exceptions not the final list position), he obviously doesn’t impress his colleagues with his skills.

            • felix

              I have been called racist for saying that Louisa Wall is a Maori!

              That’s not true Vicky32. You were called racist for saying that Louisa Wall was getting the nod of approval ahead of some other candidates because she is maori.

              • Vicky32

                No, someone actually attacked me in so many words for saying she’s a Maori… which made me wonder at the time if I had heard right, and she’s actually PI or something?
                And yes, according to what I had heard on the radio (Nat Rad), she was in fact getting the nod of approval ahead of say, Judith Tizard foe that reason. I’d even read here, someone applauding that fact.
                I used to vote Labour (I live in what was Helen Clark’s electorate.) But this year I’ll be voting Green. There’s much less chance of being labelled as a racist, for querying – er, racism? Or do you believe that only whites are and can be racist? If so, that shows appalling ignorance.

                  • Jum

                    I had to laugh watching Parliamentary questions today when the Speaker told a Labour questioner that if he expected a straight answer from John Key… which implies that the prime minister of this government does not tell the truth if he can get away with it.  Aint that the truth.

                • felix

                  I think you’re wrong about why you were called a racist, but I’m not going looking for the thread so I won’t go on about it. You could always find it and make me apologise of course, but whatever.
                  Reading your reply to Carol’s comment below leaves me in no doubt as to your homophobic attitudes however.
                  It also leaves me with the distinct impression that you’re quite mental.

            • Vicky32

              There’s no reply button under your sneer, Carol, and I take that as an omen.
              So, I am out of here. My advice, google ‘gay by choice’ and read the site.
              I didn’t say homophobia wasn’t a word, I said it isn’t a ‘thing’. It’s a word with no referent. I could invent a mental illness the main symptom of which is fear of women who’ve had three children. I could give it a scientific sounding name, get a friendly shrink to lobby to put it in the DSM, and Bob’s my aunty’s live-in lover!
              Doesn’t make it a real thing. The only fear I have of gays, is of their disproportionate career-ending social power.
              If you had your way, O’Connor would be ceremonially expelled from the Labour party, and maybe from the country. Shame on you!

      • William Joyce 1.1.2

        OMG – There you go again VOR. The last time you used this flawed accusation was over racism. You seem to enjoy leaping into the abyss of irrationality just so you can fire some unwarranted shots at someone.
        Nothing in the statement attributed to DO’C is insulting to gays – unless they find it offensive to be linked with unions and collectively called a gaggle.
        Some minority groups seem to be expecting “protected species” rights and cry foul when someone finds fault with one of them and hope that their issues will be advanced by playing on liberal guilty/empathy.
        VOR – stop being quick to take offence where there is none! And stop throwing around pejorative labels before you have analysed if it’s warranted.
        There is nothing offensive in what Chris73 said above.

        • Pascal's bookie

          So what is this fault that DO’C has found with whom? All this waltzing around the subject isn’t very straight shootery.

          I wish one of y’all would come out and say what’s on your mind.

          If someone said that straight white male christians were forming a posse to keep minorities off the list, would that be seen as insulting?

          What evidence does DO’C have that sexual orientation was a major consideration? Seeing he saw fit to bring it up, one should think he should make his case a bit more forthrightly rather than just relying on stereotypes to do the work.

          And shock horror, there are unionists in the Labour Party. Damien has been in parliament for nigh on 20 years. There may well be people voting in this election who weren’t born when he entered parliament. Has he only just discovered that he is in a Labour party?

          • William Joyce

            Groups or power blocks form because of shared interests and other affinities.
            DO’C merely used distinctives to identify two groups that he wanted to blame. “Them over there, they did it” – instead of “them” he identified the two groups but some common identifying characterists.
            DO’C did not say that because they were gay they ruined his selection.
            If he had said that by nature gays are nasty, secretive, bullies who take great joy victimising people – then that would be homophobic.

            • Pascal's bookie

              So why didn’t he say, ‘party insiders’, or ‘townies’, or ‘people who didn’t lose the west coast’.

              Because he chose to scapegoat gays that’s why. You seem to think that it is somehow wrong to question why he did that. He doesn’t seem to have presented much of a defence.

              • William Joyce

                Because in his twisted view of the situation there wasn’t any reason to identify “‘party insiders’, or ‘townies’, or ‘people who didn’t lose the west coast’.”
                He saw two groups and each group had an identifying characteristic that set them out from all the other people.
                If he said “party insiders” then people would say “which party insiders”, if he said “townies” then people would have asked “which townies?”
                Identifying gays and unionists was pretty specific. Even the MSM proved being specific could lead to identifying who he was taking about. The tv news flashed up the faces of the gays and unionists he was probably taking about.
                How would they have been able to do that if he said townies?

                • Pascal's bookie

                  You think they wouldn’t be able to find big city mps in the labour party?

                  His whole point was that provincial mps are left out. This point would have been stronger by saying townies. But he didn’t. He chose to scapegoat gays; for some reason, which remains unexplained.

                • Carol

                  That really doesn’t wash as an explanation as to why O’Connor, a sexual conservative it seems, chose to identfy some list MPs by sexuality & union affiliation.

                  • higherstandard

                    So would he have been better to say the Rainbow and union wings ?

                    • The Voice of Reason

                      He’d have been better to say nothing, HS.

                    • higherstandard

                      From a party perspective I think you’re quite right that politically it’s best if these arguments are not undertaken in public- but I doubt it’ll do him any harm as an electorate MP.

                      Labour has partitioned itself into particular silos over last couple of decades this is just O’Connor opening his mouth to suggest in his opinion two of those silos aren’t likely to be supportive of him.

                  • Vicky32

                    Please define ‘sexual conservative’. You make it sound like some kind of loathsome disease.
                    In other words, you are displaying prejudice.

                    • Carol

                      I mean by sexual conservative that O’Connor has voted to maintain the status quo with respect to Bills that aim to liberalise laws related to sexuality: ie The Civil Union Bill & the Prostitution Bill.  It seems to me a descriptive term identifying a conservative position on policy.

    • millsy 1.2

      Poor old Damien O’Connor has a problem with the nasty unionists in the Labour list…

      There is a solution for that.

      Piss off and join the National Party. Why does he think the Labour Party is called the ‘Labour Party”.

      It is supposedly the workers party and thats why there are trade union representatives in the Labour Party list it may not be PC but the voice of unions are as legitamite as the voice of any other group. They, are the ones who do the hard yards to keep the economy going. If he wants farmers and businesspeople on the list then he needs to join National, with his mate George Hawkins.

      Simple as that.

      • The Voice of Reason 1.2.1

        Spot on, Millsy. And you can bet O’Connor will singing a different tune when he needs unionists to canvass for him come election time. I really think his hissy fit shows exactly why he was going to be ranked so low.

      • Sam 1.2.2

        Labour ceased to be the “workers” party when failed university lecturers, third rate lawyers and teachers and homosexuals became its  MPs.   End of story.

    • vto 1.3

      Ha ha I see O’Connor has been labelled a “redneck” by a gay business leader, some Mr Martin. Proof certain that the mindless prejudice in fact sits on the other side of the pc fence.

      Proof again that unless you are gay or female you are not entitled to have an opinion on matters gay, unless in support. Otherwise you are a homophobe.

      Just like unless you are maori or female you are not entitled to have an opinion on matters maori, unless in support. Otherwise you are racist.

      Proof again that the value of opinions in NZ stem from race, gender and sexual orientation and not the subject matter. The oppressed have once again become the oppressors. Such a common failing…

      • millsy 1.3.1

        I would think that if you do not support the right of new zealander have sleep with whomever they wish, provided they are over 16 and the act is consensual, then that is, for all intents and purposes, homophobic.

      • Jum 1.3.2

        Golly, you seem to be yet another silly person who thinks it quite okay for a sitting parliamentary member to badmouth your own party in public when the sensible thing to do is approach the leadership, complain and sort out something.  Doesn’t the left get it; the only news that gets in the newspapers is talking up the rightwing and talking down the left – if they get ammunition to do so.  Or if they’re Key or Joyce, Brownlee or Parata, Worth or Lee, etc. who just lie or mislead.

  2. Last night’s Colmar Brunton poll result was interesting.  Those of the right have continuously run the line that Goff’s handling of Darren Hughes’ problems was the beginning of the end, there was an imminent leadership coup and Labour was dog tucker.

    I admit myself thinking that the matter should have been handled differently although I was certain that there would not be a coup.

    And now this latest poll shows a modest rise in support for Labour and a considerable increase in support for Goff as leader.

    What happened?  Could it be, as some commentators have said, that outside of the beltway ordinary kiwis actually liked seeing a leader with compassion who while twisting on the horns of a dilemma made a decision that was not “technically” perfect but was human?  Could Goff’s very candid interview where he admitted making mistakes have actually improved his standing?  Can his support for a mate whatever the consequences have caused his standing to rise?

    Having seen a lot of him over the years and recently I know that he relates to people very well.  If you get him out on the hustings he is extraordinarily good at engaging with people.  He is a very decent person.

    The Goffice needs to simplify the message however.  No asset sales is a good starter.  Keep the message simple and outline what a disaster current National policies will be for ordinary Kiwis.

    If they can achieve this then anything can happen at this year’s election.

    And one final point, we should view with suspicion the shrill rantings of the right. In fact it seems the shriller the ranting the less it is reality based.

    • PeteG 2.1

      The leadership hoo-ha emphasised that no one else wants to step up so it shouldn’t be surprising no alternative to Goff is recognised. He is still only 11%, that’s very mediocre and only a third compared to Labour’s 34%.

      • The Voice of Reason 2.1.1

        Here’s some more numbers for you, Pete:
        Goff’s personal support rises by 40%.
        And, that at a time when he, the party and Darren Hughes were under severe attack from spinners, lickspittles and, um, you.

    • Bored 2.2

      Mickey, you know my position on Goff, and by dint the Labour Party so I will not comment further on the leadership. What does bear some comment though is the fact that the left cant break the Nats hold on 50%. As the major centre left party what has Labour so signally failed to communicate to the general public. These are dire times, and it wont get better with Nact, what message are Labour missing?

      • Carol 2.2.1

        In the Stuff article on Damien O’Connor, Goff said he reckons Labour would get 40% in the election.  So, it seems to me that Goff is aiming for a Labour-Green coalition.

        • lprent

          That would be nice. But the Greens have a habit of getting fewer MP’s than their polling suggests largely because the youth demographics that they appeal to often doesn’t vote. It makes coalition building with them difficult when you have to get support from right of Labour.

          There may be stuff lurking below the surface, but so far I haven’t seen the greens doing a lot at the gettng the votes level this term. I am currently expecting that they will get about 6-7%, which would leave Labour with their traditional Labour-Green coalition problem.

          • Lanthanide

            Yeah, I don’t see Greens as getting any higher than 8% at the outset, not on their current polling.

    • sean 2.3

      Yeah but the problem is they are just rearranging the deck chairs – when they start eating into Nationals % points it will actually mean something.

  3. PeteG 3

    Dunedin is regarded as Labour territory with an easy stroll expected in the electorates. But it doesn’t seem to be an area Labour puts much importance on, or attracts top candidates.

    4. David Parker – Otago seat MP 2002-2005, list since
    29. Clare Curran, sitting MP, Dunedin South (not a great endorsement for her first term efforts)
    43. Glenda Alexander – remarkably missed Dunedin North candidacy but ranks higher than Clark
    45. Rino Tirikatene, candidate and rated a chance for Te Tai Tonga
    49. David Clark, candidate and almost assured of replacing Hodgson in Dunedin North
    54. Tat Loo, candidate for Clutha-Southland

    • What a silly thing to say.  PeteG you do not understand the function of lists obviously.

      Clare and David Clark will win their electorate seats easily, David Parker will be there, Rino has an outstanding chance in Te Tai Tonga and Glenda has a very good chance on the list.

      It is customary for candidates with strong electorates who are not on the front bench to be ranked lower.

      So support for a region has nothing to do with  list rankings.

      Good attempted spin though.

      • PeteG 3.1.1

        It’s ok for you to diss us here as just a convenience of list politics – where do you live? It’s not attempted spin – I’m noticing how much importance Labour put on Dunedin candidates. Which seems to be bugger all.
        It says to me that either Dunedin is taken for granted as easy seats, and/or that Dunedin attracts very mediocre candidates. It doesn’t give a lot of confidence that the area will be well represented.

        • lprent

          If he hadn’t said it then I would have. You are being an idiot. The list isn’t meant as a security blanket for MP’s in winnable seats. As far as I am concerned it is there to get fresh meat for the parliamentary grinder and to provide parliamentary continuity for skills.

          It isn’t there for providing comfort to spinners.

          • PeteG

            You’re being an idiot if you think that some voters at least won’t look at the list differently to how Labour insiders think it should be used.
            Front page ODT Dunedin North Candidate low on list.
            But who cares about party votes in the provinces.

            • lprent

              So? You could find exactly the same headline in every population centre, some quite a lot larger than my alta mater. including Manakau, Hamilton, Palmerston North, etc etc. Not to mention occupational groups, ethnicities, etc.

              It is a list with a limited number of slots. Every area thinks that they are under represented.

              You’d have to be an idiot not to realize that.

              as an aside: The Claire Traviette at the granny is arguing that incorrectly unionists are over represented, but their definition of a unionist is pretty damn loose. Quite how she put Kate Sutton as one is beyond me – perhaps she is counting union members? but it is no different to your spinning up what you wantto see.

            • mickysavage

              PeteG I was trying to be polite and Lprent has expressed my thoughts about you very clearly.  

              Rather than just harping on with your latest CT spin line how about arguing this:

              1.  List rankings do not always equate with importance to the party.
              2.  Electorate seats are way more important to gain and hold.

              Care to address these points?

              • PeteG

                1. People on the outside don’t give a toss how Labour like to use their list rankings, they see them with their own interests foremost. My main interest with this LAbour list is how it looks for Dunedin/Otago.
                2. Under MMP party vote is way most important. Unless you put more priority on keeping people within the party happy and aren’t so worried about votes.

                I think Chris Trotter may have been right on NatRAd this morning when he said Labour are far too inward looking. Ignore how it may look from the outside if you like.

                Things don’t look shit hot for Labour right now against a mediocre government in very difficult economic times. Hello, anyone in there care to wonder how it might look from the outside?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  1.) Looks good to me – good strong candidates for good, strong Labour electorates.
                  2.) Party vote is important at the national level. Local level it’s the electorate vote that’s important.


                • McFlock

                  Dunedin resident, non-Labour voter (they’re a bunch of fecking tories).

                  Stirring shite, peteG? Of course the ODT is spinning against the labs – you know when a labour government is turning blue? When the oddity editorials start praising its policies. While there’s even a hint that Labour will return to its socialist roots (even just dipping the big toe in) the odt will try to crap on it.

                  Frankly, not many people give a damn about the list, as far as I can see.

    • RobC 3.2

      What’s wrong? 5 in the top 50. Does Dunedin have more than 10% of NZ’s population?

      Or perhaps the absence at the top is more a reflection on Dunedin than Labour.

      Look forward to the same analysis when Nat’s list comes out.

      • PeteG 3.2.1

        How many MPs do you think Labour can get? Even if they manage to climb back up to 40% Tirikatene would just make it on the list at 45 and Clark would miss the cut.

        Dunedin North has co-leader of Greens, number one on the list.
        And number 5 (promoted to) for the current term for Act.

        I will be interested to see where the Nats puts Michael Woodhouse and Jacqui Dean. I don’t know who they will put up in Dunedin South.

        • felix

          What does number 5 on ACT’s list equate to in a real party? 30? 40?

          • The Voice of Reason

            It equates to unemployed, felix! As do Act list spots 3 and 4. There’s a small chance No2 will scrape in on the back of Hide, if National voters in Epsom can hold a pen at the same time as their noses.

            • Pascal's bookie

              But not if Epsom Green and Labour voters can also hold their noses.

              • felix

                Yep a coordinated effort needed here between Labour & Greens, and also within the Greens to make sure Dr Norman doesn’t do anything stupid. Like stand.

              • But not if Epsom Green and Labour voters can also hold their noses.

                And do a sign of the cross and ask for forgiveness at the same time!

        • RobC

          Fuck me. You’re really having problems today aren’t you?

          Parker, Curran and Clark are shoo-ins for Parliament. Rino maybe, Alexander prob not.

          So 3 or 4 Dunedin MPs out of say around 45. What is the fucking problem?

          • PeteG

            Labour aren’t exactly a shoo-in for Government. Doesn’t David Parker live in Oamaru?
            I’m interested in representation for Dunedin and Otago in parliament, that looks quite low on Labour’s priority list – if it’s considered at all. It’s likely my electorate MP will be close to or at the bottom of Labour’s rankings, below someone who lost to him in a bid to stand for Labour. Not a good look from down here.

            • The Voice of Reason

              So what? You’re not voting Labour anyway and the list ranking won’t make an iota of difference to the electorate result because nobody but you cares. And you’ll have forgotten all about it by tomorrow when you’ve got a fresh line to push.

            • Pascal's bookie

              Is the Labour candidate expected to win the seat Pete?

            • RobC

              Get a coffee you are being particularly dense this morning

              Hey, if Parker doesn’t count why put him in your list in your opening post?

              Lab isn’t a shoo-in … FFS … I’m talking (and so were you) about individuals getting into parliament.

              If Clark can’t win Dun Nth perhaps he doesn’t deserve to get into parliament.

              But anyway … Dun pop 125k, Otago pop 210k, NZ pop 4 million.

              If Labour have 3 possibly 4 MPs out of say 45 then the region is over-represented by Labour MPs. So again, what is your fucking problem?

              • PeteG

                I don’t have problem. Labour has a fucking problem does if it seriously wants to become government again. Doesn’t it?
                At the moment it seems to have it’s head firmly entrenched somewhere looking only at it’s own internals. The response here to my admittedly parochial opinion supports that view.

                • felix

                  Labour has a problem because you don’t like the list for a party you won’t vote for anyway?
                  In that case ACT is fucked because I think they’re a bunch of twats.
                  Seriously, get that coffee. You’re typing gibberrish and getting angry in the morning.

                  • PeteG

                    You’re the one that sounds a bit tetchy. I don’t need drugs. Sounds like the troops are feeling a bit defensive this morning.

                    I think Act will struggle to survive this year too.

                    It is likely I’ll vote for Labour again, but looking less likely it will be this year.

                    • felix

                      Pete, I’ve warned you before that blindly repeating back what someone else has just said about you in lieu of a relevant response just makes you look weak.
                      Tell me, what is this “fucking problem” Labour have with their list selections for Dunedin? Several people are asking you to clarify the issue.

                      You don’t like Labour. You aren’t going to vote for them. Why should anyone care what you think of the list? (Note: I’m addressing your work persona here. Who you vote for in your private life is not my concern)

                      And why are you refusing to explain your position?

                    • PeteG

                      1. One of my main areas of interest is representation of Dunedin/Otago, and the Labour list suggests to me that this area is low on their priorities. I’d like more for my own electorate than bottom of the list.
                      2. The ODT felt the local list positions worthy of a front page story so I’m not the only person who noticed.
                      Labour don’t have to care about what anyone thinks of what they do with their list. But there seems to be a bit of a raw nerve here. I’ve just expressed my parochial opinion. You don’t need to overreact.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Is the Labour candidate expected to win the seat, Pete?

                    • felix

                      You guys were pumping David Parker as a potential leader last week. Now he’s suddenly not worthy of representing your region?
                      And neither is Clare Curran? Or David Clark?
                      What exactly is the point you are skirting around, Pete?

                    • felix


                      “seems to be a bit of a raw nerve here”

                      No Pete, people are just asking you to back up your vague statements with reasoning or factual basis. As usual.

                      I’d like more for my own electorate than bottom of the list.

                      Soooo…. should Green supporters in Dunedin be pissed off about Hilary Culvert’s low ranking on the ACT list?

                      If not, why not? Don’t they deserve better representation for their region?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      I’d like more for my own electorate than bottom of the list.

                      Not every politician running for an electorate can be at the top of the list so according to you every electorate ( 95% of them) that’s not at the top of the list has been insulted.
                      Fuck, you’re an idiot.

                    • PeteG

                      Neither the Greens nor Act are likely to win the electorate – although Labour shouldn’t be too complacent about that, Turei has a far bigger profile now and Clark has none. Woodhouse also could stand a chance, but that is in Clark’s favour, two potentially strong opponents splitting the vote against him.

                      In 2005 the Labour vote was slightly higher than Hodgson’s, 17915 to 17769.
                      In 2008 the party vote dropped to 14608, Hodgson’s to 17127.

                      Hodgson has generally been regarded as a very good MP for the electorate (I’ve voted for him in the past). An unknown replacement candidate ranked around the bottom of those likely to make it into parliament is not a good way of trying to keep Hodgson’s numbers up.

                      I don’t expect the local candidate to be top of the list, that’s ridiculous. But I expected they would at least rank above the union person not considered good enough to stand for the seat.

                    • RobC

                      “I don’t expect the local candidate to be top of the list, that’s ridiculous. But I expected they would at least rank above the union person not considered good enough to stand for the seat.”


                      It could be both candidates are MP material – by ranking the one not contesting your electorate above the one that is might give them both a chance of entering parliament.

                      For someone bitching about regional representation, I’d expect you to think that might be a good thing.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      1. One of my main areas of interest is representation of Dunedin/Otago, and the Labour list suggests to me that this area is low on their priorities.

                      PeteG you must have been ecstatic with ACT then when Hilary ‘Crazy Eyes’ Calvert entered Parliament. Another fine MP to represent Dunedin lolz

                    • PeteG

                      I’m more optimistic for how we’ll be represented by 49 on the Labour list than I am for the short term 5 on the Act list.

                • RobC

                  Pete, once again you start a thread and then shift the boundaries into irrelevancy as a discussion moves on.

                  Of course Labour has a fucking problem if it wants to become Govt. But that’s not why you started this thread.

                  Original post: “But it (Dunedin) doesn’t seem to be an area Labour puts much importance on, or attracts top candidates.”

                  2nd post: “I’m noticing how much importance Labour put on Dunedin candidates. Which seems to be bugger all.”

                  Further comment: “I’m interested in representation for Dunedin and Otago in parliament, that looks quite low on Labour’s priority list – if it’s considered at all.”

                  You have criticised Labour of regional neglect. A simple analysis shows IMO that criticism is misplaced. Either refute that analysis on some factual basis or admit you were wrong and move on.

                  PS Declaration of non-interest: I am not a member of the Labour Party and I don’t give a fuck what their internals look like.

                  • PeteG

                    A simple analysis shows IMO that criticism is misplaced.

                    What analysis? Why don’t you share it?
                    The nature of blog discussions means it’s not uncommon for them to move away from the original points, especially when several opposing views divert from it.

                    • RobC

                      Fuck me you are being particularly dumb today.

                      Go and read my 8.11 am post, towards the bottom, ref no  Or do you need it in braille?

            • felix

              Labour aren’t exactly a shoo-in for Government.

              How is this relevant to the ahem “point” you’re trying to make?

  4. Bored 4

    For those who did not notice it there has been a disgusting spectacle unfold in Washington during the last week. A bit of history, Obama brought in the concept of healthcare for all Americans with his election…fast forward and here we have the Republican side of the House holding Obama to ransom on the budget. Paraphrasing, the RWNJs are killing off the social budgets, and the right led by finance on Wall St are forcing the people of America to pay back “debt” created by Wall St by cutting government etc. Its the biggest rip off ever.

    • millsy 4.1

      Obama = Waste of space.

      His Nobel Prize should have been for allowing the opposition to set the agenda.

  5. Pascal's bookie 5

    I/S doing journalism, again.


    Fuck he’s awesome.

    • Yep good post.
      The strange thing is the feeling of deja vu that I had reading I/S’s post.  Warner Bros engaged in the same sort of brinkmanship and persuaded our government to succumb meekly.
      Now it seems all the other corporates are lining up to do the same because they know the Government is a soft touch.
      Meanwhile in Provincial New Zealand protests are starting against poverty and the appearance of third world diseases
      This Government should hang its head in shame.

    • Roger 5.2

      Isn’t he just.
      Its good to see that someone is willing to dig a bit deeper than the surface considering this government seems to be spraying money at wealthy crybabies at every opportunity. I was wondering why nobody at the msm was investigating why Steven Joyce’s old company was hitting him up for a rule change considering the Warner Brothers shakedown which turned out to be a lie. These people holding the cabinet seats are a bunch of thieves and parasites that need to be removed before they hand over the country to their thieving mates.
      I love the way he sums it up also, much more eloquently than I could say it.

      • Idiot/Savant 5.2.1

        Its good to see that someone is willing to dig a bit deeper than the surface considering this government seems to be spraying money at wealthy crybabies at every opportunity. I was wondering why nobody at the msm was investigating why Steven Joyce’s old company was hitting him up for a rule change considering the Warner Brothers shakedown which turned out to be a lie.
        But they are – TVNZ has these same papers (I assume they lodged the same sort of OIA as I did), and published a story on them on Thursday night.  Other media has followed it up, and dug into some inconsistencies in the government’s story (though got it wrong over Key; he lied, but he didn’t make the decision). The difference is that I’m publishing the primary sources so people can read them.

  6. Carol 6

    Last week on The Standard, in a discussion on thre demise of public service TV and/or the government loan to MediaWorks, I praised the TV3 show The Good Wife (one of the best, quality US dramas that’s been on FTA TV in NZ recently. It was scheduled to show last night on TV3.  Without any advanced notice, TV3 pulled both House & The Good Wife and showed some old, oft repeated Adam Sandler movie instead.
    There’s been a large number of outraged protests on the TV3 forum for The Good Wife, a couple of them saying things like , “no wonder you needed a government bail-out”, if TV3 isn’t capable of keeping a really good show running.

  7. Bored 7

    From the Dom this morning Damian OConnor says the party’s new list is dominated by “self-serving unionists and a gaggle of gays”.
    Some fertile ground when considering that electorates like the West Coast tend to be conservative as sin, and working class to the core. They dont do the liberal Labour sectoral interest group thing. Then Labour wonders why they dont vote for them. Strange that.
    Labour have this problem because they have (quite rightly in my opinion) created a broad ranging church for all sorts BUT at the same time have allowed themselves to be seen as championing “favoured” groups at the expense of the rest of their flock. The perception out there is that if you criticise this you have broken the “PC” rules. Time to take OConnor seriously.
    PS PeteG, keep the fekk out of this one, its for lefties only.

    • Pascal's bookie 7.1

      But the problem surely lies in the party not sticking up for those voters as well.

      If Labour can only win the votes of working class ‘conservative’ battlers by kicking other marginalised groups in the teeth, then the problem isn’t that Labour is sticking up for those other groups, it’s that the conservatives don’t see how voting for Labour is also in their own interest.

      • Bored 7.1.1

        PB, here what you say. Its not a simple us or them, kick one side at the others expense. That is to miss OConnors point entirely. It is more about how Labour portrays a picture of caring for all equally, and how it absorbs the interests of sectoral groups  into the broader interest. Currently (even if it is not true) it is too easy for NACT to portray Labour as being about gay MPs and feminists which enables them to dodge the real issues entirely. Its a problem Labour have to resolve because it is costing them votes.

        • MrSmith

          Another good move by Labour, create a party scuffle, thrown in a bit of dog whistling, it get the medias attention plus lots of exposure for Damian, Goff and all the list MP’s. Keep this going for another two weeks the public will lap this up.
          I’m really starting to think they are getting there show together and lets face it folks this is politics.

          • Colonial Viper

            Perhaps Labour has figured out that people are dead frakkin bored of standard vanilla politics and they would like to see some real life and personality in how this country is led.
            Ahhh. Well that explains Winston’s solid ratings doesn’t it.

            • MrSmith

              Wonkey&Nact will run the election on personality politics, and apart from Wonkey (who has the personality of a dead fish) there are no other real personalities that I have seen in the national cabinet, anyway we couldn’t have someone else stealing his show.
              I hope Labour play him at his own game, endless dribble, distractions and sound bites that’s all he has, even Goff can do better than that and lets have a little humor please, christ we could use some.

      • Vicky32 7.1.2

        by kicking other marginalised groups in the teeth,

        WTF????????????????????? Please explain..

        • Carol

          Calling union leaders (who have a good record in working for their members) as “self-serving”, and MPs with a really good track record “a gaggle of gays” is hardly being complimentary.  And it’s also playing to prejudices against these  groups.

        • Pascal's bookie

          What I’m saying Vicky, is that left wing parties worthy of the name shouldn’t have to win the votes of ‘conservative’ right wingers by pandering to their bigotries.

          If a homophobe wants to vote for the left, they should be welcome to of course. But that vote should be earned in spite of their bigotry rather than because of it. 

          The same impulse that drives the left to stand up for the poor who are marginalised in society, must have them stand up for other marginalised groups.

          The right will try and pick various groups off by playing one against the other. That’s what we see in the claims that “the left has been taken over by a gay agenda’ or ‘iwi/kiwi’ or any of a number of other examples. It’s a pretty obvious divide and conquer maneuver.

          The way I think the left should beat it is to make the case that we are all in this together. Just as the left should be sticking up for all marginalised groups for the same reason; the right, at heart, attacks those groups for the same reason.

          They like to keep them marginalised to protect their own privilege, be that economic, social, cultural or whatever.  

          • PeteG

            The “left” are not in anything together, they factionalise and fight as much as the right, they are as quick as the right to try and jump on anyone who doesn’t toe their line. They stick up for marginalised groups that suit their purposes and gospel, and try to shout down anyone who points out their hypocrisy.

  8. vto 8

    Sheesh it is difficult to get demerits on Farrar’s website. But finally managed it when I suggested he is the Larry Flint of NZ, following a couple of recent postings. The site is, as many here describe, a sewer.

    • r0b 8.1

      It’s quite sad really, because DPF is a Nat insider and capable of very interesting posts, but he lets the value get lost and overwhelmed by the garbage, lies, and assorted loonies that make up the majority of Kiwiblog.

      Bravo to you anyway for trying to rattle the cage over there, and congratulations on your “demerits”. But I’d hate to feel you were missing out here at The Standard, so I can give you some “demerits” here too if you like. How many would you like? A Bazillion?

      • lprent 8.1.1

        I prefer to give a more personal bollocking ‘service’ than demerits. But we’re noted for our sysop customer focus.

        I find that it tends to help our lusers commentators to self-moderate themselves more effectively.

        😈 BOFH redux

      • vto 8.1.2

        Ha ha, dunno what I would do with a bazillion demerits.

        Anyways, this nat lot just seriously piss me off with their lies and conflicted positions and Farrar just regurgitates the crap. Deserves no cred or respect imo.

        Flames reignited again this morning when Minister Nick Smith suggests that getting decent controls on stopping farmers dumping their rubbish in the public estate (waterways) is “realistically some years away”.

        Well Nick Smith is a blatant liar. Treat the public like that and expect it straight back. Bullshitters.

        • RobC

          Heh. “Bullshitters” when you’re talking about the effluent off dairy farms. Witty.

        • Mac1

          Didn’t the Nats dump Ecan because they were too slow at getting things done, and now we have Dr Smith admitting that the Nats are too slow at getting decent controls?

          Why? They certainly know how to bulldoze, use Parliamentary procedures to shorten time frames. They know how to make up policy on the wing. What’s the delay?

          I wonder if the answer is that they don’t want to have decent controls- too many rich mates creaming it? (pun absolutely intended)

          • vto

            Exactly Mac1.

            The nats have given us the two state state. One for them and one for those of us not “in the loop”.

          • Bored

            For Nact when they say something is not efficient they really mean that it is slowing the flow of cash (to their pockets).
            That is a problem for democracy: speed and efficiency in a functioning democracy stand very low in the order of proceedings.

        • William Joyce

          Ha ha, dunno what I would do with a bazillion demerits.
          Create demerit derivatives, start trading in them, and when it all goes belly up  – get the government to bail you out, they have more than enough to go around.

  9. Dimpost pretty well sums up my feelings on the NZLP list, O’Connor’s comments and Goff’s handling of it all


  10. tsmithfield 10

    After all the criticism Key got on this site for his estimate of 10000 homes that need replacing, after the quick assessment of Christchurch homes by EQC, it looks like Key’s numbers were pretty much on the money Admittedly, not all 12000 homes with over $100,000 in damage will need to be completely rebuilt. But I think its reasonable to assume a fairly high proportion of them probably will.

  11. Anne 11

    Matthew Hooten has just done an assassination job on Labour courtesy of Damian O’Conner –  political slot on Radio NZ. Should be online soon.

    Have to agree with Sue Bradford. Labour’s list process is cumbersome and badly in need of reform. 36 members of the moderation committee? That’s asking for trouble. Won’t comment on individual listings, except to say there are one or two top-drawer MPs who should be feeling justifiably annoyed.

    • millsy 11.1

      A possible solution to this would be open primaries to rank list candidates, which would allow voters to first choose who they want to see on the list, and to have candidates choose whether they want to be a list candidate or an electorate candidate, ie Andrew Little will have to decide whether he wants to go on the list, or contest NP.

      • Tigger 11.1.1

        Funny how no one ever gets headlines by saying National’s list is too full of straight, white men…

        • PeteG

          Wouldn’t it be better concentrating on being represented by people who are caopable of running a country rather than worrying about whether they represent enough minorities?
          Reasonable representation is important, competent government is more important.

          • Colonial Viper

            Gawd you are a larff and a harff
            You just wrote how it is better to be represented by people who do not represent the people (but who can competently run the country as their own little corporate interest).
            Get lost.

            (Hey Tigger…the NATs are not full of straight white men, that’s the amusing part)

            • Carol

              And is the Labour Party really THAT full of (out) gays?  3  on the Labour list is what TV3 quoted tonight.  Gower was talking about these power blocks on the list: 3 union leaders as one power block & 3 gays as another power block.  I didn’t realise I only had to find 2 other people who agreed with me to become a power block!
              And over at the gaynz forum, someone checked up how many geese in a gaggle – the answers differ from 5 to 7+ apparently, and when they’re flying they are called a “skein”.

            • Sam

              Better than a bunch of p******s!

          • RobC

            Dunedin-ites are a minority. You seem more than worried about that.

    • prism 11.2

      On a course I took there was a part involved with decision making.  There was a suggestion that having more than 16 was not useful.  Too many people and points from each couldn’t be talked through properly.  Labour’s panel sounds massive.  And the supporters of each faction would be likely to  think in a silo fashion.

  12. todd 12

    Contradictions and Lies


    John Key says that we need to risk our environment to create jobs on deep sea oil rigs while National have sacked 3000 public servants and cut funding to TVNZ7, presumably because the Natz don’t agree with its content.

  13. prism 13

    Listening to rural news.  Another incursion from foreign weeds to worry about and cost us money fighting and trying to eradicate.  It’s called alligator weed, can have roots a metre deep, grows fast into a tangle of stems, can grow on land or in water ways.  So far seems in the north of the North Island but sounds like an incipient threat to the whole country.  We’d better watch out for it – question our local councils whether they have recognition literature, and alert experienced watchers.

  14. joe90 14

    Icelanders have voted against compensating investors for their losses in the failed Icesave.

    Final results showed the “no” side had just under 60 percent of the votes and the “yes” side about 40 percent.

    The result reflects Icelanders’ anger at having to pay for the excesses of their bankers, and complicates the country’s recovery from economic collapse.

    Now if only we could have a referendum on the SCF and AMI handouts.

  15. randal 15

    who heard finbar edwards on afternoons on friday. he virtually asked michelle boag for a job grooming john key and then he said that Phil Goff would nnot win this election.
    I never trusted him anyway and neither did the electorate when he tried to stand for parliament. they know a sooner when they see one.

    • Mac1 15.1

      I heard the bit you talk of, randal, but didn’t get that impression at all about seeking a job. What I heard was banter, all said with a smile. What you heard I suspect may have been filtered by your previous distrust.

      Edwards was linking his coaching skills to Boag’s PR skills as if to make the point that these skills are both needed in modern politics. At least, that’s how it came across to me. I’ve not read a transcript, which would have missed the smile in Edward’s voice anyway.

      I didn’t hear the Goff prediction which I would have remembered. I was driving at the time. You’re going back a long time to remember Edward’s political ambitions. So he lost. Most candidates do. I have, twice. Personal mistrust? Nah. The old FPP wisdom used to be that a candidate’s personal following was worth well less than a thousand votes. The rest of the voters went for the party.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16

    TELCON11: Crown Fibre fight turns to ‘national operating organisation’

    National organisation
    But the minister was already looking ahead, telling the audience that a “national operating arrangement” will be needed to link regional companies set up under the UFB.
    Mr Joyce said Telecom could be involved in such a national operating arrangement.
    Telecom has long pushed its Chorus division (which would be spun off if the company wins UFB contracts) as the obvious choice to manage a national fibre network, due to its manpower, expertise, and advantage in existing infrastructure.

    So, there we have it – Nationals UFB policy is just a means to restore Telecoms monopoly.

  17. Missy Poo 17

    Recently, I hosted my BFF from school days for a few days. She is a known activist / protester from the 80’s and now is a known union activist/organiser in the UK. A few days before she, and her lovely family, graced our shores my phone line went weird. Has the SIS once again (they did this in the 80’s, as well as search my flat) invaded my privacy by tapping my phone line?
    LOL – I would not be surprised. What fun. They still think I may be a threat to the security of our lovely land! ooo I would love to see the file they have on me.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      Apparently, if they’re not presently investigating you, they’ll hand over your file – all you need do is ask.

    • William Joyce 17.2

      The file will come with a complementary pie of your choice and a men’s magazine – you can read it for the articles.

  18. Draco T Bastard 18

    Nuclear Power Subsidies: The Gift that Keeps on Taking

    Government subsidies to the nuclear power industry over the past fifty years have been so large in proportion to the value of the energy produced that in some cases it would have cost taxpayers less to simply buy kilowatts on the open market and give them away, according to a February 2011 report by the Union of Concerned Scientists.
    The report, Nuclear Power: Still Not Viable without Subsidies, looks at the economic impacts and policy implications of subsidies to the nuclear power industry—past, present, and proposed.

    Nuclear Power – still more expensive than any other power generating technique.

  19. Damien O’Connor’s ‘blurt’?
    Don’t forget folks – that a week IS a long time in politics, and the only poll that really counts is an election result.
    In my considered opinion,  as a former Botany by-election candidate – opposition to State asset sales  in particular,  is a WINNER.
    So – don’t get side-tracked by those who are arguably and unhelpfully ‘speaking out of turn’ – just continue to focus and campaign on the issues…
    Who was arguably the most effective ‘Leader’ in the Botany by-election?
    National Party Prime Minister – John Key – or Labour Party Leader – Phil Goff?
    Look at the FACTS – and YOU be the Judge?
    (If you haven’t seen this analysis of the Botany by-election by the NZ Herald’s CHIEF political reporter John Armstrong, or have forgotten it (as John Armstrong appeared to have done himself, some three weeks later), have another squiz at this: )

    Botany byelection loss holds silver lining for Labour Party
    By John Armstrong
    5:30 AM Monday Mar 7, 2011

    At last, Phil Goff has something to smile about.

    Exactly why the Labour leader is smiling might not seem immediately obvious given that National’s Jami-Lee Ross won Saturday’s Botany byelection in a canter, securing almost double the number of votes of his Labour counterpart.

    The answer is that everything is relative in politics. Labour did better than it hoped. National did not fare as well as it would have expected.

    The complicating factor is Saturday’s abysmally low turnout. However, the non-vote would more likely be weighted in Labour’s favour.

    The 36.6 per cent turnout – half that of a general election – meant both major parties got fewer votes than at the 2008 election. Labour’s vote proved more robust. National’s vote halved from more than 17,000 to just over 8000. In comparison, Labour’s vote fell, but far less dramatically – from around 6500 to just over 4000.

    The net result is: Labour increased its share of the candidate vote in the seat from 21 per cent in 2008 to 28 per cent on Saturday.

    Moreover, it did so in the face of a number of handicaps – notably the party’s candidate, Michael Wood, committing one of politics’ great sins early on by saying he would not win the seat.  ………”

    Penny Bright

  20. “Draco T Bastard 17.1

    Apparently, if they’re not presently investigating you, they’ll hand over your file – all you need do is ask.”
    I asked – and they wouldn’t give me mine.
    Guess I must be doing something right!
    Penny Bright

    • grumpy 20.1

      Surely then, that means (as Draco says above) that they are still investigating you.

      Been near the Ureweras lately?

      • Jum 20.1.1

        grumpy – keep taking the soma.  Key’ll lie to you as usual, but you’ll love it.  Could be because your rse is too close to the ground…

    • todd 20.2

      Yeah! They wouldn’t give me mine either. I think it is a scam, people (activists) who think they might have something on their file write in to get a copy and then automatically get placed on a investigate list. Cheeky sods!

  21. Jum 21

    Foreign Investment Decision [08/04/2011]
    PORTFOLIO: Treasury
    URL: http://www.treasurer.gov.au/displaydocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2011/030.htm&pageID=003&min=wms&Year=&DocType=0

    SNIPPET: After long and careful deliberations, I have today made an order under the Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Act 1975 (the Act) prohibiting the acquisition of ASX Limited (ASX) by Singapore Exchange Limited (SGX). The proposed acquisition has been subject to an ongoing examination by the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB), the Government’s independent advisory body, since it was announced on 25October 2010 and has been under formal consideration since the application was lodged on 11March 2011. However on this occasion I have decided that the proposal would not be in the national interest.

    Anything being planned by JKeyll and Joyce?  We know how much Key loves Singapore.

  22. Draco T Bastard 23

    Naomi Klein: Addicted to risk (TEDTalk, video)

  23. Draco T Bastard 24

    Mediaworks didn’t need our money

    This advice was ignored. Two weeks after the briefing was given, Economic Development Minister Gerry Brownlee wrote to John Key seeking permission to bring an urgent paper to Cabinet on the issue. The letter made no mention of the modelling at all, and accepted at face value the RBA’s claims that its members were too poor to pay, despite their books showing that the opposite was the case.

    I/S doing more uncovering of facts regarding the government loaning our money at preferential rates to big business.

    • Note that I’ve since amended that; advisers argued over who would lead on the issue, and while a letter for Brownlee was drafted (hence my mistake), it was Joyce who eventually fronted it to Cabinet.

  24. chris73 25

    Sorry was at work so couldn’t reply
    Yes I agreed with the spirit of his comment but as I said its not quite how I’d put it (I’m sure my comments in this area can be bought up) because being over-represented by the Rainbow wing and the unions is not representative of NZ today
    As I’ve said before it seems as if Labour has moved away from its roots and now it sounds like one of its own MPs is echoing the same sentiments
    But what I’d like you to do Voice of Reason is explain to me exactly how I’m being homophobic (just in case my gay sister-in-law and her partner are reading this, they might not invite me over to dinner)
    Oh and Millys, not cool bringing up the holocaust

    • Mac1 25.1

      easy answer. Take all the relevant comments to your sister-in-law and her partner, and ask them whether you are homophobic.

      I carried on the discussion of the Holocaust. Very apposite. Very germane. Very respectful. See my comment following and ff.

    • The Voice of Reason 25.2

      At work? Crikey, I’ll never lump you in with Tim and peteG again if you’ve got an actual job.
      The way I see it this; you agree with the sentiment, not the words. But the problem actually is the sentiment. The reason O’Connor is in the shit is because he expressed a homophobic sentiment, via a memorable phrase. You might choose to use different words, but if you genuinely think that teh gays are a problem, as O’Connor seems to, then you too have a wee problem.

      • William Joyce 25.2.1

        Except it was only homophobic to those unable to read, unable to understand the context, have no understanding of English and the meaning of words and  as are as irredeemably learning impaired as you seem to be VOR.
        It may be that he misunderstood what the politics were in the list selection process and lashed out at the wrong people but you cannot justifiably call it homophobic.
        In the same way that you can’t call someone racist or anti-Christian if they identify a power block in Rodney as being composed of mainly South African fundamentalist Christians. You could even call them a gaggle of SA fundies if you like.
        I know it’s a subtle point and goes beyond your ability to make the distinction (as you have now with homophobia and racism) but one would hope that you would take some instruction from your betters and not parrot the same sensationalist stance you see in the msm.

        • Carol

          Except O’Connor didn’t just identify a power block (of 3 people in each case?). The language O’Connor used was derogatory about gays & union leaders.  Seemed to be playing to homophobia to me.

          • William Joyce

            Except there is a distinction. He did not say anything derogatory about unions or gays. He did not attribute to them as a people group any unsavoury qualities. He just said – “them over there, they did it to me”
            He just used two characteristics so they could be identified – gay or union instead of “them”.
            “of 3 people in each case?” – I didn’t address the issue of whether he was right (I possibly think he was wrong) but he didn’t commit the “crime” of homophobia.
            “was derogatory about gays & union leaders” – how so? Gays don’t like being lumped in with unionists? They don’t like being called a gaggle?

            • Carol

              O’Connor used derogatory language about both union leaders and gays.  Lumping them together?  That’s a diversion.
              You seem to have a limited understanding of homophobia. It covers many kinds of behaviour, not just out and out nastiness.  More often than not it’s expressed through innuendo and smears of one kind or another, and they can be damaging:

              What is homophobia?
              There is no single definition for the term ‘homophobia’, as it covers a wide range of different viewpoints and attitudes. Homophobia is generally defined as hostility towards or fear of gay people, but can also refer to social ideologies which stigmatise homosexuality.1 2 Negative feelings or attitudes towards non-heterosexual behaviour, identity, relationships and community, can lead to homophobic behaviour and is the root of the discrimination experienced by many lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. Homophobia manifests itself in different forms, for example homophobic jokes, physical attacks, discrimination in the workplace and media representation.

              Yes, the use of the word “gaggle” was derogatory. It implies gays are a mindless bunch of chattering animals.  And it was based on no evidence.  Homophobic smears were used against the Clark government consistently: a long line of innuendos about lesbians & gays, who, it seems according to these smears, just are out to hi-jack government for their own selfish reasons.   And for some with a prejudiced leaning it’s enough to turn them against some politicians, with absolutely no evidence – just the derogatory language.


              • William Joyce

                1.Look at the construction of the comment – it does not single out gays as being the sole components of the gaggle – it also included unionists.
                2.Being labelled a gaggle is at the lesser end of offending and I would have thought gays or others should be able to not get so offended and move on.
                You lost your argument when you resorted to a dictionary…
                Negative feelings or attitudes towards non-heterosexual behaviour, identity, relationships and community,
                – Nobody has proved that he has these attitudes – they have just looked at his comments, not read them properly assumed they are homophobic and inferred attitudes. Go back to your dictionary and look up Eisegesis (the process of misinterpreting a text in such a way that it introduces one’s own ideas, reading into the text)
                Homophobia manifests itself in different forms, for example homophobic jokes, physical attacks, discrimination in the workplace and media representation.
                – He didn’t attack them because they were gay. He attacked them because he saw them, rightly or wrongly, as a group that he blamed and could be distinguished by a common characteristic – they were all gay. Just as the unionist groups were all unionists

                Homophobia is generally defined as hostility towards or fear of gay people
                – He did not exhibit hostility towards gay people per se but a group of people who were gay. There is a difference and the failure to grasp this is the foundation of a sort of PC Group-think.

                “Homophobic smears were used against the Clark government consistently: a long line of innuendos about lesbians & gays, who, it seems according to these smears, just are out to hi-jack government for their own selfish reasons.   And for some with a prejudiced leaning it’s enough to turn them against some politicians, with absolutely no evidence – just the derogatory language.”
                – Just because this happened does not make what he said homophobic. That’s like saying There are people doing evil in the world so my mother is also doing evil.

                • The Voice of Reason

                  “1.Look at the construction of the comment – it does not single out gays as being the sole components of the gaggle – it also included unionists.”

                  Ok, then, lets look, shall we?

                  What he said was “self-serving unionists and a gaggle of gays”. So you’d be wrong, William. But you’re used to that, eh.

                  • William Joyce

                    Thank you VOR to this correction – the gaggle was specific to the gays
                    “self-serving unionists and a gaggle of gays”.
                    So I stand corrected on the point I erroneously said that the gaggle was specific to the gays.
                    So you’d be wrong, William. But you’re used to that, eh.
                    Nice little Monday night wet dream for you but how does that add to or detract from the debate?
                    Are you telling me, that there is such a long history of gays being called a gaggle that it has become such a loaded term. You know VOR – I have my own dream tonight. It’s a glorious dream. It’s a dream when white man and the black man will hold hands together; when the straight man and the gay man will hold hands.
                    And they will join me on that mountain top – for I have been to the mountain top. And I have looked out over the suburban houses of Auckland and I have looked into the promised land and I have seen the lion lay down with the lamb, I have seen white man call the the black man a nigger no more and the straight man call the gay man a gaggle no more.
                    anti-spam : past (past my bedtime)

              • higherstandard

                “Yes, the use of the word “gaggle” was derogatory. It implies gays are a mindless bunch of chattering animals. ”

                But isn’t the word gaggle commonly used within the gay community ?

        • Pascal's bookie

          But there actually is evidence of shenanigans in Rodney.

          If there wasn’t any evidence, and someone said shit about south african immigrants and what have you, then yeah, they could find themselves accused of bigotry.

          DO’C’s evidence seem to be, there are gay mps that got a better list spot than him, therefore they are all in cahoots together to keep poor Damien down.

          Maybe losing the west coast has something to do with his list spot? If he can’t win it back, then why should he get a cushy list spot?

          • William Joyce

            The charge of homophobia is about attributing to gay people, as a people group, attributes or reason why they should be marginalised.
            NOT about whether what he said was true or not.
            “south african immigrants and what have you, then yeah, they could find themselves accused of bigotry.” – Well some could indeed be accused of being a bigot but it wouldn’t make them one.
            “DO’C’s evidence seem to be, there are gay mps that got a better list spot than him” – With respect, you seem to make the same error the msm etc are making.
            It is possible for a group of people, with similar interests and a distinguishing characteristic, to form a “cohort” to achieve a purpose in their interests. So it is just quite possible that a group of people (who just happen to be gay) lobby to achieve their aims. Gay people are no more above this than anybody else.
            The problem is that DO’C seems to have seen enemies where there weren’t any not that he said evil things about gay people.

            • Pascal's bookie

              He chose to scapegoat gays. Not ‘townies’, or ‘Goff favourites’, or anything else. Except for ‘self serving unionists’ of course, he also blamed them. A phrase which you tell me isn’t derogatory.

              I’m thinking it’s not me that needs to read things a little closer.

              And if you think there isn’t also an implied call for gays to be marginalised within the Labour list when someone implies that their current presence there is due to some gaggling reflex, then you are not thinking as clearly as you claim to be able to do.

              It certainly seems to me that many of his defenders have been saying that Labour needs to get back to its roots and what not. They don’t explain, even though they are asked to, but it sure looks like they are saying, ‘less gays please’. Which would be marginalising, no?

              I’ve not looked at Kiwiblog. But I’ll go out on a limb and say that that dogs are barking there exactly as if they had heard a whistle.

              A whistle you claim wasn’t there.

              • William Joyce

                He chose to scapegoat gays.
                You’re right he was scapegoating in the sense he was looking for someone to blame for the failure to make it high on the list (then he spat the dummy).
                But there error you and the others are making is that he was not scapegoating gays as Hitler scapegoated Jews (as a people group, all of them, in their entirety because of an evil that arose from the nature of the jew).
                DO’C did nothing of the sort. He did not say that gay people were the cause of his downfall because of the evil that come out of their “gayness” – which would have been homphobic.
                DO’C did no say that these particular gay people were the cause of his downfall because of the evil that comes out of their “gayness” – which would have been homophobic.
                He said that a group of those people over there and the those people over there are to blame for his downfall.
                He just used a specific identifying so that everyone knew who he meant – the group that are gays and the group that are unionist.
                That is NOT homophobic.
                So that leaves the question – is he right?
                1.Are there these powers groups inside the selection process. Of course there are.
                The Gays, The unions, The Senior party wind people, the party backroom people, the pepperpot ladies from Mt Albert.
                2.Did one or more these groups edge him out? Does sound like it.
                Not ‘townies’, or ‘Goff favourites’, or anything else. Except for ‘self serving unionists’ of course, he also blamed them. A phrase which you tell me isn’t derogatory.
                Sorry, I forgot the self-serving bit and didn’t mention it so I don’t think I was telling you it isn’t derogatory.
                What has exercised me in this is that automatic PC_Group think that goes on, and the moral panic complete with pitch forks and torches any time somebody says something that could reflect badly on individual gay people, the gay community or their actions.
                We hear something and it’s like we take off from and 0 to 100 in three seconds charging down the road in moral outrage while brains have been flung to the back of the car and play no part in the event.
                I’m thinking it’s not me that needs to read things a little closer.
                And if you think there isn’t also an implied call for gays to be marginalised within the Labour list when someone implies that their current presence there is due to some gaggling reflex, then you are not thinking as clearly as you claim to be able to do.
                Again, the same mistake, he didn’t imply a “call for gays to be marginalised”
                – the accusation was that they prevented plum position on the list
                – the implication was NOT that gays should be marginalised but that these gays held disproportionate sway.
                They don’t explain, even though they are asked to, but it sure looks like they are saying, ‘less gays please’. Which would be marginalising, no?
                Yes, it would but I have no knowledge of that. I am only addressing a narrow and specific point regarding the misinterpretation of what DO’C and the limits to what you can with integrity infer from that statement – and leave the rest for another day.

                • Pascal's bookie

                  He did not say anything derogatory about unions or gays. He did not attribute to them as a people group any unsavoury qualities.

                  That’s what you said, it’s been your whole point. If you forgot what he said, then it doesn’t lend any credibility to the idea that you have any clue as to what you are talking about. You kind of missed the boat mate. 

                  All sorts of people have been inferring that he was implying that ‘Labour should get back to its roots, ergo, less gays’. 

                  Perhaps you have been out of the country for a time, or in a coma, or some other thing that has meant that you are so divorced from what the fuck his comments mean in context. I couldn’t know your circumstance. But as noted, D’OC has been in parliament for nigh on 20 years. He knows how his comments would fit into the political discourse; this is what politicians do. Knowing how their language will be interpreted is a primary skill. 

                  Here is another thing you said:

                  There is nothing offensive in what Chris73 said above. 

                  That was in reference to Chris saying that Labour should get back to its roots, a statement you now say would be marginalising of gays given this particular context. You also defined homophobia as attempts at marginalising gays. 

                  Nighty night, it’s been real.

          • Sam

            Exactly, why should a failed electorate candidate “sneak” back into parliament as a”list” MP?  That is the major fault with MMP.
            Hooray for Lyn Dalziel, who also has backed herself in an electorate, not relying on being a “list” MP .  Having “six pence each way” is the coward’s way.
            Phil Goff and co should remove themselves from the list and demonstrate some backbone, somthing that is lacking in his caucus.

            • rosy

              “Phil Goff and co should remove themselves from the list and demonstrate some backbone, somthing that is lacking in his caucus.”

              As Should National?

        • The Voice of Reason

          William, it was really nothing. But thanks for the validation and do keep reading my stuff. I’m charmed that you keep tabs on my postings and I look forward to further critiques of my meagre efforts from one so learned as yourself.

          If you want to get really pompous, you’ll find some more learning impaired people here:

          • William Joyce

            To be honest, when we had our little spat of MLaws being a racist I determined early on that you were incapable of getting this distinction and after that day decided it was pointless showing you the error of your ways.
            However, even with the noblest of reasons not to we all sometimes give in to our more base nature and charge the red flag.
            So, don’t flatter yourself, I don’t monitor your posts but just recognised that same flawed reasoning again and threw caution to the wind.
            The fact that you included that link shows you don’t understand the nature of the debate or the players. Of course a reporter will be able to search high and low to find some “offended” people to get a quote – that’s what they do. It does not mean the quote stands up to rational scrutiny – it only proves that there is someone out there who is making the same mistake you are.
            Your argument can be just as wrong even if you find a million quotes from people who agree with you.
            By that reasoning John Key should be our next Pm because everybody loves him!

            • The Voice of Reason

              Christ, were you defending Lhaws? How sad. If that argument, which I don’t remember, upsets you, don’t under any circumstances google my exchange on racism with TravellerEv. That was epic. I just don’t like bigots, William. Can’t abide ’em.
              I linked to the news item, because I believe the wronged have the right to name the crime. ie. if the gay community define O’Connor’s statement as homophobic and call for an apology, then it’s probably homophobic and he should apologise. Which I note he has done and will do again tomorrow. Obviously, he doesn’t see it the way you do, now that he’s calmed down.

    • millsy 25.3


      1) See my comment all the way above.

      2) If you have an issue with unionists in the National Party, then I take it you also have issue with iwi aristocrats in the Maori Party, businessmen and farmers in the National Party, BRT plutocrats in ACT, and stoned hippies in the green party

  25. Jenny 26
    To my mind Darren O’Connor’s comments attacking the Labour Party as being run by “a gaggle of gays and self serving Trade unionists” were more in line with the sort of insults I would expect to come from Labour’s enemies in National and ACT.

    And as such, would seem on the surface of it, to be contrary to O’Connor’s continued position in parliament as a representative of the Labour Party, traditionally a party opposed to intolerance, and supportive of the aspirations of working people, and yes, their organisations the trade unions.

    I don’t expect to hear Labour MPs attacking both diversity and trade unions, in the same sentence, especially in election year.

    If this is truly what Darren O’Connors thinks, then he should gracefully step down as a Labour MP, and seek membership in an organisation in line with these views. The Labour Party is not it.
    (at least I hope it isn’t)

    • Sam 26.1

      Is the slight rise in Goff’s popularity caused by him (finally) sacking (or at least withdrawing support) from another “gay” MP?
      How many here in “the Standard” are “metro” males, living in AKL or WGTN and who have no idea how the Labour party  is viewed in mainstream New Zealand outside of the main centres?

      Labourites, outside of AKL, WGTN, ChCh and Dndn you don’t have representation.
      Maybe mainstream NZ and Danian O’Connor are right and you are wrong?  Think about it!

      • The Voice of Reason 26.1.1

        Sam, I think you will find that being urban heavy applies to all parties. Looking through the Labour list, I can find half a dozen rural or provincial candidates in the top 40 (ie. potentially electable) and that’s just the ones I know about. That doesn’t seem out of kilter at all.
        As for the Beckhamist tendencies of ‘the Standard’, again, I think you’ll find that contributors come from all sorts of circumstances and all sorts of places, such as the rural town I live in, and not everyone on the site supports Labour, anyway.

        • lprent

          I would hazard a guess that most of the commentators of the left do not. They might reluctantly force themselves to vote Labour if they have to. However there are a lot of lurkers who are Labour members. When I have time to write, that is who I try to write for.

          But I would agree about the higher proportion of people on the electable list outside the top five six urban centers compared to population. It is pretty deliberate – I know that we were considering it when we were voting on the Northland Auckland list.

          NZ is increasingly a urban culture and Labour finds organizing in the concentrated larger cities to be a lot easier than across a range of smaller towns. It used to be easier when the electorate sizes were somewhat smaller and towns actually fitted into an electorate. Amongst other uses the list allows to get representation from areas where it is hard to get electorate MP’s elected.

      • Carol 26.1.2

        Is the slight rise in Goff’s popularity caused by him (finally) sacking (or at least withdrawing support) from another “gay” MP?

        I find such anti-gay slurs & dog-whistles a disturbing part of the debate on this issue.  After decades of struggle against destructive homophobia, I think it’s good we finally get some out gay MPs (and hardly in a way that makes them dominant over heterosexual politicians). It’s disturbing that people think withdrawing support from them, merely because they are gay, is some kind of victory – looks like a regressive backlash to me – a desire to return to oppressive treatment of gays.

        And it’s just a destraction from the major economic and social issues we face. Gay Labour MPs are also part of that struggle for kiwi battlers. It doesn’t need to be either/or, but all of us together against the right wing destruction machine.

    • chris73 26.2

      I personally think he was using alliteration

      • Mac1 26.2.1

        Alliteration definitely was being used, to reinforce meaning, to catch attention and to be memorable. No excuse there, Chris73.

    • Colonial Viper 26.3

      Yes, O’Connor’s personal attack on his own party and the people within it was blatant and unacceptable.
      But there was another message there in his frustration as well. Labour is not being heard by the ordinary working class. Labour is not being heard by struggling New Zealanders up and down the breadth of the country.
      National have led us into a devastating economic slump hurting Maori, PI’s, women, youth the worst. While gifting state money and assets to the already wealthy.
      And what traction does Labour have in the polls as all this is hitting home? 31%, 32%, 33%. Worse in fact than when times were good under Labour in 2008 and the working class were still doing OK. In this environment, National should be easily pounded into the dust.
      So something is wrong, and even though O’Connor is an ass for saying what he said he got something right.
      Labour is still failing to connect.

      • Armchair Critic 26.3.1

        National have led us into a devastating economic slump hurting Maori, PI’s, women, youth the worst. While gifting state money and assets to the already wealthy.
        Fuckin’ aye.  Labour may well have bought a train set.  National have bought a bankrupt finance company, a bankrupt insurance company and the grass in an unusable stadium. I can see a use for the train set.  The other three?  Not so sure.

      • Salsy 26.3.2

        Ive been watching the stuff poll over the past couple of days. Nat and Lab were neck and neck for some time, then there was a swing to the right this morning..
        ACT 167 votes, 6.5%
        Greens 345 votes, 13.4%
        A Hone Harawira-led party 87 votes, 3.4%
        Labour 619 votes, 24.1%
        Maori Party 33 votes, 1.3%
        National 1027 votes, 39.9%
        New Zealand First 261 votes, 10.1%
        Progressive 10 votes, 0.4%
        United Future 23 votes, 0.9%
        Total 2572 votes

        • lprent

          On line polling is pretty useless. It really just reflects what groups have time to waste and who has net access and who is interested in online politics. Look at the Act vote in that poll for instance compared to the Maori party vote.

          But in any case I can’t use it – lightbox is evidently one of the things that doesn’t work on my iPad.

          • Salsy

            And flash which frustrates the crap out of us – though javascript should be all okay..

      • sean 26.3.3

        You forgot to mention that John Key caused both the Christchurch earthquakes and is responsible for the GFC due to his FX market manipulations last century.

        • Colonial Viper

          Sean apparently doesn’t understand that the financial instruments which caused the GFC included advanced derivatives whose development stem from the 1990’s.
          Did Key cause both Christchurch earthquakes? He merely used them for political gain and to hurt the city of Christchurch. But cause them? No, he is just a trader of other peoples’ fortunes.

      • Carol 26.3.4

        And what’s O’Connor doing for the working class? His criticisms of Labour seem to be all about his own status and a diversion from any attempts to address the crucial issues that will make things better for the working class.

  26. Jenny 27

    A risk taking granny?

    Herald Editorial: Drilling for oil a risk worth taking

    Granny sez:

    New Zealand needs a big oil discovery to show it has proven large reserves. That, combined with its attractive exploration regime, would entice other major explorers to come here. The potential benefit in tax and royalty income, jobs and regional development is enormous. If there is, as with virtually any activity, a risk, there is also the prospect of huge reward. It is not a possibility the country, including those protesting against Petrobras’ presence, can afford to pass up.

    Next week, I expect to read that the dare devils at the Herald, write that base jumping from inner city tower blocks is a common lunch time activity recommended by Herald editorial writers, again they might even admit that, ” as with virtually any activity, (there is) a risk”

  27. Drakula 28

    Jenny: O’Connor’s true home is ACT but it is really sad the extent to which the right wing biggots are always trying to gatecrash the Labour party.

    • todd 28.1

      I often wonder if the Labour party is failing on purpose because there is a certain amount of support for asset sales, oil exploration and beneficiary bashing etc amongst their ranks.

  28. sean 29

    At least having a gaggle of gay MPs is a step up from having MPs who book porn on their parliamentary credit cards.  Its a step in the right direction :p

  29. Colonial Viper 30

    PeteG represents the National Party panic that it’s closing on the last half of election year and Goff has now made double digit ratings.

  30. PeteG 31

    So you do have a sense of humour.
    The Nats have a lot more to worry about than Goff’s 11%.

    I don’t have anything to panic about, I’m not involved in a party stumbling from blunder to blunder. whose supporters are desperate to conjure up any smidgen of a sign that they stand a chance of regaining power.

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      Yeah, thanks for that, I thought I smelt Right Wing fear and you confirmed it.

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    In a few weeks, New Zealanders will make a choice whether we implement into law the End of Life Choice Act 2019.  My scientific expertise includes developing and validating methods to predict future events of ill people including death. There is one section of the Act that concerns me deeply. Section ...
    SciBlogsBy John Pickering
    17 hours ago
  • Democracy Under Threat
    My wife and I are at an age when we have begun to think (and worry) about the kind of world we will leave behind for our children and, particularly, our grandchildren. We have experienced during our own lives, like others of our generation, our fair share of hard times ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    22 hours ago
  • Liam Hehir: Why it’s important to be open to relationships with people who vote differently
      There are few things written more deeply on the human heart than religion. Differences between us on the purpose and ultimate destiny of human existence have sometimes inspired great intolerance and even wars. But what would we make today of a Catholic who refused to countenance a meaningful relationship ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    22 hours ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #39
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... The Warming Climates of the Arctic and the Tropics Squeeze the Mid-latitudes, Where Most People Live Melting Arctic ice sends ...
    23 hours ago
  • Where in the world will the next epidemic start?
    Naomi Forrester-Soto, Keele University Viruses jumping from animals to humans have been the starting point of numerous outbreaks, from Ebola to Zika. Given the similarity of SARS-CoV-2 to coronaviruses found in bats, this probably marked the beginning of COVID-19 too. We know that viruses have passed from animals to humans ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • Fiscal Maths with Paul “Goldie” Goldsmith
    Mr Thinks has asked me to come onto the blog today to outline a few concepts in fiscal mathematics. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    2 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #39
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 20, 2020 through Sat, Sep 26, 2020 Editor's Choice Climate Disruption Is Now Locked In. The Next Moves Will Be Crucial A crack on the Amery Ice Shelf in ...
    2 days ago
  • National behind the times
    When Todd Muller resigned as leader of the National Party and allowed for Judith Collins to assume command, you could tell the blue “team” was desperate and in search of past glories. After all, Crusher is towards the end of her political career and from a bygone era where dirty ...
    3 days ago
  • Coronavirus: the road to vaccine roll-out is always bumpy, as 20th-century pandemics show
    Samantha Vanderslott, University of Oxford If you have been following the media coverage of the new vaccines in development for COVID-19, it will be clear that the stakes are high. Very few vaccine trials in history have attracted so much attention, perhaps since polio in the mid-20th century. A now ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • PREFU: The State of Government Accounts
    The Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update’ (PREFU) tells us something about the future of the Public Sector but it requires careful analysis to assess how it is going. The 2020 PREFU is the most important economic statement during any election campaign. Unfortunately the commentariat tends to treat it briefly ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    3 days ago
  • Predatory delay
    Farmers are whining again about being expected to clean up their act: Canterbury farmers want politicians to stop painting them as climate change villains, listen to their needs and allow them more time to boost environmental standards. [...] “The targets are necessary for the environment, but do we ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Flight to nowhere sends the wrong message in climate crisis
    Qantas Airlines’ 7-hour “flight to nowhere”, that sold out in 10 minutes with prices from A$787 to A$3787, seemed like a sick joke to climate advocates. Apart from the waste of fuel and the pointless emissions, passengers would be able to see first-hand, from a plane just like those that ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: The cannabis referendum – a doctor’s perspective
    Cannabis is part of our culture: 80% of adults have tried it sometime. Intuition tells us that legalising cannabis will increase use – science suggests that is not likely. Our Dunedin and Christchurch studies show that cannabis use peaks in our 20s. Older people are less frequent users whether it ...
    4 days ago
  • First steps: Jerry DeSilva on the evolution of bipedalism
    Yesterday morning I got up (at the rather early and unaccustomed hour of 3.30am) to listen to a webinar by paleoanthropologist Dr Jeremy DeSilva¹. Titled “First Steps”, his presentation was about the origins of bipedalism in the human lineage. It was a fascinating session & I thought I’d turn my ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    4 days ago
  • True Believers In A False God.
    Down The Rabbit Hole: "Social psychologists have found that when fearful people contemplate potential misfortunes, they tend to feel helpless and pessimistic, but when angry people contemplate the same, they feel a sense of optimism and control. And one simple way to transmute fear into anger is to perceive an evil ...
    4 days ago
  • Majority Rule Requires Majorities That Are Real.
    Fifty Percent Plus One: New Zealand’s genuine-majority-delivering two-party system endured for five elections only (1938, 1943, 1946, 1949, 1951) a period of just 16 years. Very few New Zealanders alive today can boast of participating in an election which delivered a true majority to either Labour or National. Someone who ...
    4 days ago
  • Labour super exploitation
    This is the second in the lecture series by Andy Higginbottom on superexploitation. Here he looks at Marini’s theory of labour super-exploitation and Capital ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Small asteroid to make near-miss of Earth in NZ skies tonight
    Sorry for the late notice on this one, but I only just heard myself, in common with most of the human race. A small asteroid, somewhere between the size of a truck and the size of a house in dimensions, will hurtle past the Earth tonight, dipping closer to ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    4 days ago
  • This is not what accountability looks like
    When someone commits trespass, assault with a weapon, and kidnapping, you'd expect them to be prosecuted, right? But apparently the rules are different if you wear a blue uniform: A police investigation has found officers in Northland trespassed on a man's property, then unlawfully pepper sprayed him and arrested ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Cycling: head injuries ignored because of entrenched macho culture
    Howard Hurst, University of Central Lancashire and Jack Hardwicke, University of Winchester Competitive road cycling is a demanding and unique sport. One where crashing is inevitable – especially at the professional level. While the risk of head injury is relatively low in cycling – approximately 5-13% – compared to contact ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • The coming US shitshow
    Today President Trump once again refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses the US election. Coincidentally, The Atlantic has a long article on exactly what that means, from voter suppression by armed thugs in the name of "ballot security", to refusing to allow the vote ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A moral void
    That's the only way to describe the SIS, who - like their British counterparts - decided to look the other way on child abuse: The SIS knew a young woman was being sexually abused by her father but failed to lodge a complaint with the police, effectively allowing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • When will Goldsmith resign?
    The National Party’s campaign has gone from bad to worse with a further two large miscalculations being uncovered in their alternative fiscal plan. Firstly, National’s economic spokesperson and list MP, Paul Goldsmith, used May's Budget figures instead of last week's PREFU numbers, and came up with a whopping $4.3 billion ...
    5 days ago
  • The Adventures of Annalax: Part IX
    The initial session was a struggle. Annalax and Magni tried sorting out the details with the Isaac twins (the people pursuing the mountain trip). Annalax happened to mention his devotion to Lolth… whom the Isaacs, being ...
    5 days ago
  • This is bullshit
    On March 13, three plainclothes police officers kicked in Breonna Taylor's door under a no-knock warrant targeting another person. When a person inside reasonably assumed they were home invaders and (this being America) started shooting, they shot up the place and everyone around them - killing Taylor. Today, one of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Arctic sea ice is being increasingly melted from below by warming Atlantic water
    Tom Rippeth, Bangor University Arctic sea ice today (white) is covering a much smaller area than in 1980-2010 (orange line). National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder, CC BY-SA Each September, scientists like me look out for the point when the Arctic’s meagre summer fizzles out and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • The long-term health burden of COVID-19: further justification for NZ’s elimination strategy
    Prof John D. Potter* This blog briefly surveys the emerging scientific evidence on the longer-term burden of symptoms and disease in survivors of the COVID-19 pandemic. Many of these symptoms point to damage in the brain and heart. These long-term harms add to the wide range of other reasons for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • Going High, Going Low: An Assessment Of The First Leaders’ Debate.
    Uncrushed: Jacinda Ardern knew exactly what was expected of her in the first Leaders' Debate. Labour’s dominant position, three weeks out from the general election, is constructed out of the admiration and gratitude of hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who, more often than not, vote National.  Nothing she said ...
    5 days ago
  • The smokefree policies of political parties: Do they care about people who smoke?
    George Thomson*, Nick Wilson, Janet Hoek, Andrew Waa, Richard Edwards In this time of Covid-19, helping people who smoke to quit their addiction has an even greater importance. Smokers are more vulnerable to many harmful health effects, including severe effects from the virus. Policies that support people who smoke to ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • The Fog Of Economic Policy Is Starting To Clear…
    Bryan Bruce, https://www.facebook.com/www.redsky.tv, 19 September 2020 National’s economic policy of temporary tax cuts yesterday proved, if proof be needed, that they are unapologetic neoliberals. While their claim that with more money in their pockets people will spend more might sound attractive, the reality is that tax cuts always benefit the ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #38, 2020
    Highlighted article: Carbon pricing and planetary boundaries  Engström et al take what might be called a systems approach to evaluating carbon pricing, taking into a account various economic sectors affected by and affecting paying for emissions. The conclusions are overall a rare pleasant surprise— a feature predicated on cooperation.  Abstract: ...
    5 days ago
  • Humans ignite almost every wildfire that threatens homes
    Nathan Mietkiewicz, National Ecological Observatory Network and Jennifer Balch, University of Colorado Boulder CC BY-ND Summer and fall are wildfire season across the western U.S. In recent years, wildfires have destroyed thousands of homes, forced hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate and exposed tens of millions to harmful ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: China steps up
    China has increased its climate change ambition, and set a target to be carbon-neutral by 2060: China will reach carbon neutrality before 2060 and ensure its greenhouse gas emissions peak in the next decade, Xi Jinping has told the UN general assembly. “China will scale up its intended nationally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Humans have dealt with plenty of climate variability
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz How much climate variability have humans dealt with since we ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Indigenous perspectives on unrestricted access to genomic data
    By Genomics Aotearoa researcher Maui Hudson, University of Waikato It is vital that genomics research respects genomic data and genetic heritage from indigenous communities. Genomics research is a rapidly growing field of study, and there is a strong push to make the huge amount of data being produced open ...
    SciBlogsBy Genomics Aotearoa
    6 days ago
  • Terrible luck: lockdowns on learning and youth job prospects
    What is bad luck? Bad luck is spilling spaghetti sauce down your shirt right before an important meeting. When the person in front of you gets the last seat on the bus, that’s bad luck. Bad luck is when it’s sunny outside, so you leave the house without a coat, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Ian Powell: Does private healthcare threaten public healthcare in New Zealand?
    Is the private health system impacting negatively on the public health system? Health commentator Ian Powell evaluates a recent NZ Herald article by Natalie Akoorie (“Public v private healthcare: Moonlighting, skimming, duplication – should NZ do better”), and looks at how the dual system works, and concludes that the answer ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    6 days ago
  • A rabbit-hole election debate: So do you want more avocado orchards?
    We live in strange and unusual times. It’s been a century since we’ve endured a global pandemic like this, more than half a century since we’ve had economic woes like this. So maybe we got an opening election debate for the times - because that was a strange and unusual ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    6 days ago
  • LIVE: Jacinda Ardern vs. Judith Collins, First Debate
    Tonight, The Civilian will be live-blogging the first of too many debates between Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and National Party leader Judith Collins, and also the last fifteen minutes of the news. Be sure to tune in from 6:45pm for regular updates, which can be accessed by refreshing this page ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Hundreds of Aucklanders arrested after illegal mass gathering on Harbour Bridge
    An enormous drive-in party, shown here, was held this morning on Auckland’s Harbour Bridge, where police were forced to intervene. Hundreds of Aucklanders were arrested this morning on public health grounds, after an apparent illegal mass gathering on the city’s Harbour Bridge. Police say hundreds of Aucklanders gathered in their ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • The Looming Fight.
    Social Distancing Be Damned - It's Jacinda! Shortly after ascending to Labour’s leadership, Jacinda described herself as a “pragmatic idealist”. It was an inspired oxymoron – packing into just two words the essence of the social-democrat’s dilemma. It was good to know that she knew what lay ahead of her. ...
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Moving faster
    Back in 2017, the UK announced that it would ban the sale of new fossil fuel vehicles by 2040. Its a basic climate change measure, aimed at reducing emissions by shifting the vehicle fleet to cleaner technologies. Now, in the wake of the pandemic, they're planning to bring it forward ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • The Australian courts have had enough of refugee detention
    For the past decade, Australia has had a racist, anti-refugee policy. Those claiming refugee status are imprisoned without trial and left to rot in the hope they would "voluntarily" return to be tortured and murdered. When the courts have granted them visas, the government has immediately revoked them on racial ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Friction and the Anti-lock Braking System
    Yesterday afternoon I had to call on my car’s anti-lock braking system (ABS). For reasons best known to its driver, a car pulled out of a side road right in front of me while I was driving home after work, and I needed to stop in a hurry. I rather ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    7 days ago
  • The Inside Word: New Zealand Quarantine
    There are a fair few misconceptions about conditions within New Zealand’s Quarantine Hotels. Madeline Grant’s misplaced accusations being one prominent example, though she is not alone. Today, I thought I’d share the inside word, so to speak. A friend of mine has recently returned to New Zealand from overseas, and ...
    7 days ago
  • Hard News: ASA: Let’s not talk about this
    Last week, major newspapers carried a full-page ad as part of the campaign for a "No" vote to the referendum question about supporting the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill. The ad was authorised by the SAM NZ Coalition, which takes its name from a controversial American anti-cannabis group and includes ...
    7 days ago
  • This is not kind
    New Zealand has a serious homelessness problem, due to skyrocketing rents and a lack of state houses. One of the ways we stick a band-aid on it is to put people up in motels. Previously, they were charged full commercial rates, saddled with odious debt due to the government's failure ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Wokies are the establishment
    by Ani O’Brien In the absence of a better word with which to refer to the rabid activists who claim progressivism while demanding adherence to an increasingly prescriptive set of political beliefs, I call them “woke”. With its roots in Black American slang, the term originally denoted a person or ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • How to strengthen the post-isolation Covid rules
    Over the weekend, the Ministry of Health reported a case of Covid-19 in Auckland that is not related to the current Auckland cluster. Before we start to panic, here’s how I think the case happened and how we can strengthen our current border controls. The new Covid-19 case is someone ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • Neuralink and You: A Human-AI Symbiosis
    Becky Casale Elon Musk reckons his Neuralink brain implant is much more than a medical device–that one day it will drive a symbiosis between humans and artificial intelligence. “Good morning! I’m Dr Benedict Egg and I’ll be supervising your Neuralink insertion today. Do you have any questions?” “Yes, Doc. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Liam Hehir: Our obsession with American politics
    Many New Zealanders take a strong interest in US politics, with the death of Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsberg being the latest example. Liam Hehir wonders if it very wise for New Zealanders to get so worked about it.   Many politically engaged New Zealanders are now furiously ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 week ago
  • COVID: Back to Level 1
    After stamping the Coronavirus out via strict lockdown between March and May, New Zealand went through a good three months without any community cases. Then a local outbreak in Auckland rather buggered things up last month. Auckland’s been in level 3 and level 2.5 for the past six weeks. ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Climate injustice
    Who's causing our skyrocketing emissions? As with most of our other problems, It's the rich: The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Good riddance
    The border closure and resulting lack of foreign slave-workers is driving the fishing industry out of business: One fishing company is effectively out of business while others are bracing for large financial hits as the deepwater New Zealand industry, unable to get skilled foreign workers into the country, have ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #38
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... The tipping points at the heart of the climate crisis Many parts of the Earth’s climate system have been destabilised by ...
    1 week ago
  • Anyone for Collins?
    In the absence of national public opinion polls, we have had to make do in recent weeks with other guides to voter intentions. Those guides, such as the Auckland Central poll, the incidence of google enquiries and the responses to Vote Compass questions, have suggested, not unexpectedly, that Labour is ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Crusher’s fiscal malfunction
    Crusher Collins - National Party leaderWe all know that the National Party is desperate to gain some traction during this election campaign and have been throwing pretty much everything at the Labour Party in order to try and undermine Jacinda Ardern and what the Coalition Government has achieved. But unfortunately ...
    1 week ago
  • Much of the commentariat’s reporting of the most recent GDP figure was misleading and unhelpful. The prize for the stupidest remark about the GDP figure for second quarter 2020 (2020Q2) released on Thursday (17 Sept) goes to Judith Collins, whose response to Grant Robertson’s comments indicated she did not ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Love and Hate as Complementary Revolutionary Acts
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh goloing@gmail.com (19/09/2020) Che Guevara said that a true revolutionary is motivated by love i.e. love of the oppressed, the poor, the children dying from preventable illnesses. This phrase of his is true but has been used by reformists and their more hippy wing have taken advantage ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #38
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 13, 2020 through Sat, Sep 19, 2020 Editor's Choice Get to Net-Zero by Mid-Century? Even Some Global Oil and Gas Giants Think it Can Be Done A report by a ...
    1 week ago
  • Tax cuts for all!!! (except you, you, and you)
    With the National Party this week announcing a new policy of tax cuts to spice up the election campagin. MyThinks went along to the launch and afterwards we spoke to the party’s finance spokesperson Paul “Golden Touch” Goldsmith. MT: Thanks for speaking to us Mr Goldsmith. PG: No. Thank you. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    1 week ago
  • Great Waves Washing Over New Zealand
    Always to islanders danger Is what comes over the seas ‘Landfall in Unknown Seas’ (Allen Curnow)Six economic issues external to New Zealand, which will greatly impact upon us. 1.         The Diminishing Global Dominance of the US. Since 1941 America has dominated the world economically and politically. Probably it could ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand has role to play in resolving crisis on ‘geopolitical fault line’, Helen Clark says
    By Geoffrey Miller New Zealand should continue to champion human rights in Belarus amidst an ongoing crackdown on protests by the country’s regime, former Prime Minister Helen Clark says. Protests in the country often referred to as ‘Europe’s last dictatorship’ erupted after the country’s disputed presidential elections on August 9 ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    2 weeks ago
  • Euthanasia referendum: How to cut through the emotions
    Jacqui Maguire, registered clinical psychologist This podcast episode highlights how difficult it is to have effective conversations about euthanasia due to how polarised people’s views are. I’m a clinical psychologist, with a passion for science communication. In early 2020 I founded the podcast Mind Brew, with an aim to make psychological ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Why we need cameras on boats
    In case anyone needed further convincing, there's another example today of why we need cameras on fishing boats: reported seabird bycatch doubled during a camera trial: Commercial fishers operating off Auckland's coast around vulnerable seabirds are twice as likely to report accidentally capturing them when cameras are on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Graham Adams: The religious right’s campaign to spike the euthanasia referendum
    In the leadup to the euthanasia referendum, an array of conservative Christian political organisations is running an expensive campaign to sow doubt about the safety of assisted dying. Graham Adams argues that these religious forces know that Christian arguments aren’t convincing the public, but that it is in the public ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 weeks ago
  • Opportunistic looting
    The National Party has spent the last six months acting horrified at the cost of supporting people through the pandemic and banging on about how the debt must be repaid. So what was their economic policy released today? Massive tax-cuts for the rich, of course! National has walked back ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Uncomfortable Choices.
    Dangerous Times: This will be the choice confronting those coming of age in the 2020s. Embrace Neoliberalism’s belief in racial and sexual equality; adopt its secular and scientific world view; and cultivate the technocratic, multicultural, global outlook required of those who keep the machinery of hyper-capitalism humming. Or, throw your ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tony Burton: Covid and benefit payments
    It would be a great time to reform the benefit system, according to former Deputy Chief Economic Advisor at the Treasury, Tony Burton. He argues the complexity of benefit system means that it’s failing to achieve its difficult three core objectives, which form an “iron triangle”.   New Zealand’s benefit ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking tax: How to win support for taxing wealth
    Tax Justice UK, September 2020 Serious tax reform is on the political agenda for the first time in decades due to the coronavirus crisis. As this debate hots up it is important to understand what people think about public spending, wealth and tax. Tax Justice UK, along with Survation and ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Getting Tough.
    Not Mucking Around: With upwards of 800 dead from the virus’s resurgence in the Australian state of Victoria, leniency is not on Premier Daniel Andrews’ agenda. The Victorian Police are cracking down hard on the protesters the Australian press has labelled "Covidiots".IMAGES OF POLICE, some in riot gear, others on ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Media Link: Nuclear strategy, then and now.
    Although I had the fortune of being a graduate student of some of the foremost US nuclear strategists of the day (1970s) and later rubbed shoulders with Air Force and Naval officers who were entrusted with parts of the US nuclear arsenal, I seldom get to write or speak about ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago

  • Job numbers up in August
    New data from Stats NZ today shows a rise of more than 9,000 filled jobs from July – driven mostly by the education and training sector, Grant Robertson says. Filled jobs were up 9,147 to 2.2 million in August 2020 compared with July – with 7,409 of those in education ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Māori development receives funding
    Māori development projects across the country will receive a total of $18.8 million from the Provincial Growth Fund that will create infrastructure and permanent jobs, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “These projects will support economic development in Northland, Bay of Plenty, Tairawhiti, Manawatū-Whanganui, Waikato and Southland to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Hand-up for owners of earthquake-prone units
    From today, owner-occupiers of unit and apartments living in earthquake-prone buildings can apply for financial support to fix their homes, Minister for Building and Construction Jenny Salesa says. The Residential Earthquake-Prone Building Financial Assistance Scheme will help unit owners facing financial hardship over earthquake strengthening costs. “We understand how complicated ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • PGF backing successful Māori enterprise
    Whanganui will benefit from a Provincial Growth Fund investment in a local food-processing company which will help the company increase production and create jobs, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. Kii Tahi Ltd, which is owned by South Taranaki iwi Ngaa Rauru Kiitahi, will receive a Provincial Growth Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Hokitika Landmark earmarked for $22m restoration
    Seddon House in Hokitika, once a hub for government on the West Coast, has been earmarked for government use once again. “Today we’re announcing a $22 million investment from the Government’s $3 billion infrastructure fund for shovel ready projects for the purchase and restoration of Seddon House in the heart of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Town halls and war memorials in PGF renovation programme
    Town halls, war memorials and other community landmarks across the country will be renovated thanks to grants totalling just under $12.4 million from the Provincial Growth Fund. Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says more than 1000 jobs are expected to be created during the renovation programme. “Town halls, other ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes two diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced two new diplomatic appointments: •         Michael Appleton as New Zealand’s first resident High Commissioner to Sri Lanka. •        Tredene Dobson as New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Viet Nam.  Sri Lanka “New Zealand is opening a post in Colombo in 2021 because we are ready ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ’s most prestigious conservation award – Loder Cup presented to Graeme Atkins
    The Minister of Conservation Minister, Eugenie Sage, today presented Aotearoa New Zealand’s most prestigious conservation award, the Loder Cup, to the 2020 winner Graeme Atkins while in Gisborne/Tūranga-nui-a-Kiwa. “Graeme Atkins of Ngāti Porou is a Department of Conservation ranger whose contribution to conservation goes well above and beyond his employment,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early help for whānau who need extra support
    The Government is investing in a new, whānau-centred early intervention prototype designed to strengthen families and improve the safety and wellbeing of children. The new programme, Ngā Tini Whetū, is a collaboration between Oranga Tamariki, Te Puni Kōkiri, ACC and the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency (WOCA) and was announced today ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Parliament to install solar and cut carbon
    Parliament is leading by example by taking action to cut its carbon footprint by installing solar and improving energy efficiency, the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw said today. The Minister confirmed that Parliamentary Services will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to install solar PV and LED ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Tuvalu Language Week theme promotes community resilience in the face of COVID-19
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says the 2020 Tuvalu Language Week theme of “Fakatili Te Kiloga Fou” which means “Navigating the changing environment” is a call on all Pacific peoples to be strong and resilient in the face of COVID-19. “This theme is a reminder to us ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • International sport back up and running in New Zealand
    The Government is welcoming today’s announcement that the West Indies and Pakistan cricket teams will tour New Zealand this summer.  “A lot of hard work has been undertaken by sports officials including New Zealand Cricket, Netball New Zealand and government officials to ensure that international sport can return safely to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 1BT funds for Northland forest taonga
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