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Open mike 11/05/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 11th, 2012 - 133 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

133 comments on “Open mike 11/05/2012 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    One can guess that the wielder of the knife was a scab for the port company.

    If a unionist had been the one wielding a knife against a scab the Herald headlines would be front page and screaming.

    Ports of Auckland management would be demanding prosecution to the full extent of the law.

    Black clad armed offenders squad members would have descended on mass.

    Government MPs would be wading in with thunderous denunciations of terroristic unionists, etc. holding the country to ransom etc. etc.

    Opposition MPs would be tut tutting about extremism.

    Instead we get this:

    Port of Auckland said the police had decided not to press charges and the company would prefer to keep the matter out of the media spotlight as facilitation occurs.


  2. Blog challenge – The Standard versus Kiwiblog
    (and any others that want to join in)

    There’s quite a bit of inter-blog and inter-leaning rivalry, and it’s easy to get sucked down into a whirlpool of negativity. It’s easy for the negatives to overshadow, even overwhelm the good that does happen.

    Sometimes it’s worth stepping back and looking at what can be done positively. We all need some positives, and our country needs collective positives.

    A positive for me – both Trevor Mallard and Tau Henare replied by email overnight. A number of MPs (Green, NZ First, UF) have responded positively over the last week.

    Here’s a challenge to step back and consider Positive Politics, what can be done better in political blogs and in parliament.

    I won’t respond or comment in Open Mic today – that may be a positive for some. If there’s anything positive here today I’ll collate and summarise.

    Suggestions, pledges, whatever – people here claim The Standard is much better than Kiwiblog, show that it is at least as good. Get positive.

    • Kevin Welsh 2.1

      Can your ego get any bigger?

      • Pete George 2.1.1

        This has been an interesting experiment, with unsurprising results mainly. Even when it’s clear I’m not going to comment it attracts off topic (mild) attacks and comments.

        More on this when I get time.

    • tc 2.2

      Get a life Petey, you may find it quite enlightening and not so full of the blogosphere you habitate.

    • Janice 2.3

      What a relief, Pete isn’t going to comment today, there is a God!

    • felix 2.4

      Public holiday declared.

    • I thought r0b’s comment yesterday to Petey was very gracious and Petey did adjust his commenting style.

      He should realise however that the continuous occupying of the moral high ground that he does goes down here as well as a dinner invitation with Murray McCully. he should also realise that lefties prefer detailed sharp discussions and not the sugar coated blather that he clogs debates up with.

      • dd 2.5.1

        Is it possible to restrict Petey to say 5 posts a day? I really enjoy reading this blog and think that a lot of the posts are insightful and interesting but as of late it seems to be a whole bunch of George on every thread. It’s mind numbingly boring.

        One can suggest to just not read his posts but as posting on the standard appears to be his full time job it’s impossible to avoid.

        • Tiger Mountain

          Woo Hoo a PFD! (Pete Free Day) maybe people think that about my posts too, so had better not get too carried away.

      • felix 2.5.2

        He “adjusted his style” alright. Like here for example where he used r0b’s comment as an excuse not to answer awkward questions.

        r0b’s warning didn’t deter him from making the comment I responded to of course, but it magically prevented him from backing it up. Funny that.

        • Pete George

          An odd response from you felix, after a day where I thought we had some quite reasonable discussions and jousts, I quipped on a late point from you – including a smiley, funny that – as I didn’t have the time to go into detail getting on in the evening.

          I get criticised for saying too much, and criticised for not saying enough, by you too.

          No, I’m not grizzling, I’m pointing out one of the absurdities of the many criticisms directed at me, for which I seem to get most of the blame.

          • felix

            I apologise if I was abrupt or rude, I know we all get busy. Presumably now that you’ve found the time to comment further you’ll add some words to follow the smiley face.

      • deuto 2.5.3

        I would also like to thank R0b for his diplomatic handling of the situation; and one or two brownie points to PG for attempting to modify his approach although not entirely successful as Felix has commented.

        Re his 2 above, I had a quick visit to KB to see whether he had filed the same comment/proposal and sure enough, there it was posted at 8.02am in General Debate. As of a few minutes ago, no comments or bites.

        Someone raised here yesterday whether PG had been banned from The Dimpost. In the midst of their discussion on the contraception issue on the Talkback Bait post, there are a number of comments re this and their views on his (now past) contributions there. This comment replying to an earlier one amused me:

        “Pete George owns 25% of a thread narrative without even being here.

        In his island fortress hideout off the coast of Dunedin, Pete cackles as his unwitting pawns fall into place one by one. ‘Exactly as planned’ he muses.

        Comment by Hugh — May 10, 2012 @ 1:57 pm

        Seems the same is happening here today! And I am as guilty of this myself!

        • Pete George

          Yes, I find that amazing too, I thought I woukld have faded into history, but instead I see that Rhinocrates is still glaoting over “hounding me off” Dim-Post. He didn’t hound me off. I kept standing up to his (admitted campaign to hound me off) until my comments stopped being accepted, without warning or explanation.

          It’s too big a story for here so I’ve blogged on it. <a href="http://yournz.org/2012/05/12/dim-post-mistrust/"Dim-Post mistrust.

          I’ve also blogged on what I think is the untrustworthiness of Dim-Post comments – Rhinocrates and Dim-Post set straight.

          I’m aware I may get the usual gripes about “link-whoring” but I’d probably get gripes about puting it all in here anyway.

      • Pete George 2.5.4

        he should also realise that lefties prefer detailed sharp discussions

        That’s a funny one, especially from you micky, a joke, right?

    • weka 2.6

      Suggestions, pledges, whatever – people here claim The Standard is much better than Kiwiblog, show that it is at least as good. Get positive.

      Is he taking the piss?

      • travellerev 2.6.1

        Just posted this on my blog this morning but thought it was very apt in this thread too.

        How to recognise a shill without becoming paranoid.

        Pete George I don’t necessarily think is a shill but check out the list I found with 25 Shill hallmarks against his comments and also check Gossman’s behaviour against this list if you have nothing better to do.

        • Tiger Mountain

          Pete is more a self aggrandising pollyanna type, Gossie though rather presents as Wellington SIS.

    • millsy 2.7

      To be honest Peter, I dont have a real problem with you posting on TS. However you claim to be centerist/moderate/main stream, and a one time Labour/Green voter, however you take National/ACT like positions on economic and welfare issues. i.e. you support the privatisation of education delivery through charter schools, erosion of universal health care, and oppose increases in the minimum wage.

      Why cant you just be honest, and just say you support National/ACT and identify yourself as right-wing, like the other right-wingers on here.

      • Vicky32 2.7.1

        you claim to be centerist

        Aaarrgghhhhh! that causes me acute aesthetic pain… ‘centerist’, wtf? It may be correct American (it probably is), but to a native  English speaker (and teacher) it looks as horrendous as such a solecism as ‘do’nt’ or the like. 🙁

        • Vicky32

          I have to add (I can’t edit) that I know my comment is off topic, I simply couldn’t help it… I know I said I would never say anything about language errors here again, after being ferociously insulted by I think, Gosman, and taking it to the heart I supposedly don’t have) but I couldn’t help myself! You could blame the Aspergers, tho’ I wouldn’t!

      • Pete George 2.7.2

        millsy: you support the privatisation of education delivery through charter schools, erosion of universal health care, and oppose increases in the minimum wage.

        Wrong, wrong, and wrong, I’ve never said anything that supports any of those.

        Why cant you just be honest

        Were you being dishonest, or ignorant?

        and just say you support National/ACT and identify yourself as right-wing, like the other right-wingers on here.

        Because that wouldn’t be honest, as anyone would know who takes any notice of what I say and doesn’t make assumptions or distortions.

    • Reality Bytes 2.8

      Robust views with critique of opposing views is a very positive state of affairs.

      Great to see people passionate about something and engaging, even if there are differences of opinion. TS has a healthy level of that sort of participation. Ergo the participation on TS is very positive.

    • Mick McCrohon 2.9

      how do you contact Trevor Mallard ?

    • OneTrack 2.10

      I think your question has been answered 🙂

  3. Tigger 3


    Hooray, Key isn’t against gay marriage and Parliament might consider a Bill that’s…nothing new at all… FFS MSM, this is a non story that only exists because you know Key has a hard on for Obama and headlines with ‘gay’ in them are ‘edgy’ to you.

    Harawira’s lack of support isn’t surprising. Undecided is a cop out here and he knows it.

    • muzza 3.1

      Yes of course there is nothing more important going on, so the NZH give this topic the main story headliner thismorning.

      Just like in the American media currently…..everyone see how these things work yet. Its simply a battle for you mind..

      Why would our prime mincer not jump on the gay bandwagon, Obama is very comfortable there!

      As for Harawera, or anyone else, why should they have to give an opinion, it make absolutely no difference what he thinks, nor is it anyones business to ask!

      Smoke and mirrors for dumb people!

      • Carol 3.1.1

        I agree with your comments on Obama, Muzza, and the Herald’s way of reporting it. But the news itself is of interest to gays, lesbians and those who support sexual & marriage equality.

        Harawira’s “indecision” is diasppointing, and would be a reason for me not voting Mana. The principle of equality, fairness and social justice should be applied across the board for all, and this includes those damaged by socio-economic, ‘race”, gender and sexual inequalities.

        And while John Key can’t help himself not to agree with Obama, he’s not planning any law to make same-sex marriage illegal.

        • felix

          Key on gay rights:

          In 2008, National promised it wouldn’t roll back any gay rights, and the Government hasn’t

          What does he want, a fucking medal for not being openly hostile and bigoted? Still, it’s a rare moment of honesty regarding what National would rather be doing.

          • Carol

            Oh. That’s a whoopsie on my part @8.21am

            I meant:

            And while John Key can’t help himself not to agree with Obama, he’s not planning any law to make same-sex marriage legal.

            • felix

              I figured, but the sentiment applies either way seeing as Key thinks he’s super super nice for not going out of his way to make laws against teh gays 😉

        • muzza

          “Harawira’s “indecision” is diasppointing, and would be a reason for me not voting Mana. The principle of equality, fairness and social justice should be applied across the board for all, and this includes those damaged by socio-economic, ‘race”, gender and sexual inequalities”

          —Carol, yes of course it is of interest those groups, and well it should be. The core issue however is the grandstanding of this topic, which is as I have said, smoke and mirrors. The other issue is the position that the “state” takes in the governance of peoples rights to control their marital status regardless of orientation. Needing to have permission from the state on this front is is issue which needs to be addressed, not just for the gay community, but by all!

          Without playing it down too much, IMO there should be wider issues which people take their voting position on, the TPPA for example!

          • Vicky32

            IMO there should be wider issues which people take their voting position on, the TPPA for example!

            Agreed! There are other things that are far more important than sexuality…

        • Adele

          Tēnā koe, Carol

          If it came to a referendum Hone would, I am fairly sure, vote for the right for takatāpui to marry.

          However, there certainly is an ambivalence within the modern Māori world towards ‘gayness’ but I believe that is because many Māori are heavily colonised by religious views on the matter.

          Takatāpui is a phrase that predates colonisation therefore suggesting knowledge of same-sex unions. There is also evidence within whakapapa to suggest that takatāpui was an accepted construct of traditional society and from where I live Tutanekai was known to have had a male companion.

      • Tigger 3.2.1

        Thanks Weka. Harawira’s definition of ‘human rights’ is interesting, and useful to him. For someone leading a party like Mana he displays a total lack of empathy, much like Key actually. If it doesn’t matter to him personally then effectively it doesn’t matter.

  4. Mick McCrohon 4

    This will be the Crime of the Century if it comes about …and our grandchildren will hate us if we do nothing to prevent it from happening !

    PLEASE read the whole article and digest the implications to our right to self rule .
    This could have a massive effect for generations to come .We don’t have the right to give away our countries sovereignty for a handful of baubles !

    Quote …”Under these arrangements, an American corporation, for example, would be given far more extensive rights against our government than any New Zealand company would ever have. It would mean that a future government, perhaps elected to change policy in an area like environmental protection or health and safety (smoking comes to mind), could be threatened with a crippling lawsuit unless it backed off.

    The rights protected by these provisions go far beyond real property rights and include financial instruments, mining concessions, intellectual property, public-private partnership contracts and even market share.”

    Nor is it just the Government that would be hog-tied. A particular worry for lawyers is that our courts, too, could be overruled. The foreign investment tribunals have decided that courts are part of a country’s government (riding roughshod over any doctrine of the separation of powers) and that they, too, must comply. Even if our courts had upheld the validity of a law properly passed by Parliament, that decision could be challenged by a foreign corporation alleging it breached their rights under the TPP. Even a jury decision in private litigation could be challenged and lead to the Government paying millions in compensation.”


    • rosy 4.1

      .. And the Herald editorial reckons we have nothing to fear because it’s ‘fair’, like the world trade organisation procedures and it’s made in ‘good faith’ it’s just that the arbitration will between a government and a corporation…. trust us, we know what we’re doing.


      • tc 4.1.1

        Would that be an unsigned anonymous editorial or has someone put their name to it?

        • Mick McCrohon

          tc ? use the link and read …if thats to difficult …have someone read this to you …written by Bryan Gould

        • rosy

          Good question – one of those unsigned ones by the looks.

          Edit: Mick….talking about the editorial, not the very good Bryan Gould article.

      • Mick McCrohon 4.1.2

        Australia said “thanks but blimey are you kidding, NO THANKS”.
        Do we really want to be controlled by America and any Multinational Corporation ? Both these parties have a history of immoral actions for their own benefit . And what do we get ?

        Quote …”Nor is it just the Government that would be hog-tied. A particular worry for lawyers is that our courts, too, could be overruled. The foreign investment tribunals have decided that courts are part of a country’s government (riding roughshod over any doctrine of the separation of powers) and that they, too, must comply. Even if our courts had upheld the validity of a law properly passed by Parliament, that decision could be challenged by a foreign corporation alleging it breached their rights under the TPP. Even a jury decision in private litigation could be challenged and lead to the Government paying millions in compensation.

        In a recent case brought by Chevron, for example, a tribunal ordered the Ecuador Government, in defiance of its constitution, not to enforce a ruling by Ecuador’s Appeal Court that Chevron must pay $18 billion to clean up toxic waste in the Amazon Basin.”


      • aerobubble 4.1.3

        How to sue your government using the free trade agreement. Do a Phillip Morris and shift your business ownership overseas and then use free trade to protect yourself against unfair government rule changes.
        Why is this wrong, or rather, why would this make free trade law unconscionable. well take the example of a iwi group who could not relocate, or class actions by citizens who don’t have the money to relocate.
        Or worse, asset sales that rob taxpayers of prime investment income to pay debt run up by National to fund higher tax rate drops.
        How can free trade have been entered into in good faith when a government fails the good faith protections of its own citizens?
        Dunne went to the voters arguing that he would do nothing to harm NZ, one wonders if anymore harmful message could be sent than a government that bars citizens seeking redress for wrongs done to it by its own government where a comparable foriegn invester group could.
        Rich people donate large amounts of money to National, they did not win a majority, for tax cuts overwhelmingly favoring them, and National are paying for them (with Dunne’s vote) by selling state energy assets.
        Now Labour can easily turn this around, I suppose, just print money and ‘forceable’ buy the shares back. The reason our currency is so high is precisely because National are sell assets leading to china buying up NZ dollars.
        As usual, a broker is making fees from churning, this time state assets. Key looking after his Banker mates.

        Free trade rules are illegal if they restrict citizens from *also* bringing their own governments to seek redress under fair trade rules. Since only the internationalists will be reward by government incompetence, like we are seeing from John Key in asset sales, in repressive laws, etc.

        • Mick McCrohon

          This secret deal must be made the top News issue until we step down from signing !
          Its no accident that its all being kept hush hush ! See your local member and raise hell till we get answers ! If you live in Key’s electorate camp out side his offices !

          • aerobubble

            Hundreds of years of democracy have shown that secrecy only makes fools of those who engage in it. Democracy isn’t about the evil majority killing the elites party, its about the elite not falling on their faces and bloodying their noses when they don’t use the open wisdom of the crowd to object to their obvious abuses.

            • Mick McCrohon

              the third arm of democracy is the media , The people , the government and the media . Well the media is letting us down because the government selects who gets to ask the questions .As a result we see the media ” self censor” …what a different world it would be if the members of the media had the balls to do their jobs !

    • muzza 4.2

      “Trade agreements are not threats to national sovereignty. There is ultimately no power to enforce them.”

      — But of course there will be power to enforce, and it will come as the solution to the problem, which will be that sovereign governments, will be undermined and neuted, moreso than they already are..

      Can people at least start to accpet that global government is a very real play, “these people” are gunning for, and that the TPPA is the noose around NZ’s neck!

      This should be the biggest story in NZ over the past months, and in the spotlight continually, but its not, and instead we get this drivel from the NZH, yet again, just saying that we have nothing to worry about. Foreign farm purchases, food bill, ECAN, Super City, the list goes on and on, that NZH tells us we have nothing to worry about…

      Remember this people, NZ media is simply part of the global business empire looking to make sure its got a seat at the table no matter what the outcome!

      • Mick McCrohon 4.2.1

        And this example …needs consideration

        “In a recent case brought by Chevron, for example, a tribunal ordered the Ecuador Government, in defiance of its constitution, not to enforce a ruling by Ecuador’s Appeal Court that Chevron must pay $18 billion to clean up toxic waste in the Amazon Basin.”

        This must be fought or we are going to be economically raped and potentially destroyed environmentally . Four million Kiwi’s will be handing their keys to the country to the Multi Nationals and we will be at their mercy !

        How will you explain that to your grandchildren ,whilst huddled under a bridge ,stirring your pot of rat stew ?

        The world economy is in freefall and we will need ALL OUR RESOURCES to survive and that “freefall” was created by the very people that they are talking about (in secret) giving control to !

        • marsman

          It is obscene that any Government would even contemplate signing such an agreement. It is obscene that corporations have that much power.

          • ianmac


          • Bill

            Yup. It is obscene that corporations either have or would seek such power. But insofar as it’s merely a transfer of power from one institution or set of institutions to another, is it not equally obscene that a government has (or ‘had’ in the case where it has signed it over) that level of power in the first place?

            Theory would have us believe that in the case of governments having and excercising such power that there exists a degree of accountability over and above that which applies to corporations. And that’s true. Although it’s absolutely minimal and we have no institutional recourse that would allow us to change any fundamental aspects of the governing system that excercises such immense powers (some would say) on our behalf or (as others would say) over us.

            In either scenario we are spectators to an illegitimate excercise of power that is rightfully ours. Now that they are trading that power like so much land we once belonged to but that now belongs to a few people, what are we to do? Pin our colours to this mast or that mast and watch them get blown about by sea and wind changes we have no influence over? Or develop tactics and strategies that might, even in some small way, bring power back to where it rightfully resides?

            The last option is a bloody hard row to hoe. It won’t yield success today and it might be many tomorrows (possibly beyond yours and mine) before meaningful progress across a broad spectrum of fronts becomes evident. But what other, meaningful option is there? I’m open to any alternative suggestions that might be forthcoming. But I’m expecting the roaring silence that usually accompanies things being dropped into the ‘too hard’ basket.

            • Mick McCrohon

              and remember its in the corporate charter to ensure profits to shareholders ,nothing about justice or civil rights.

        • Carol


        • vto

          The New Zealand government does not have any authority to do this. It will be null and void as the government is incapable of entering into such an arrangement.

          This is vile.

          • Mick McCrohon

            The trouble is they do have the right ! They just don’t have the approval of the people ,thats why its happening in relative secrecy .We all have seen that Key has no regard for public opinion.

            • vto

              Yes I know, perhaps the government does have the strict, legal, formal ability to enter into this.

              However I would point out that this TPP affects our votes. It discounts the value of our vote.

              So let me put it like this … if John Key’s government proposed something which affected the value and use of our vote in the domestic context, such as, say, making elections every 5 years instead, would Key’s government be able to make that change by simply signing a document or passing legislation by bare majority in the House?

              If the answer is no then that is where my point about the legitimacy of such an agreement sits.

            • muzza

              Someone explain to me how the whole system hangs together then ask yourself, who actually has that authority, how they got, and how it really has the right to dictate terms to those in a negative sense, that the system claims to be serving! – Legality = Those who control of the legislative and judical systems, thats all there is to it. Controlling the “democracy” that claims to be seperate from the judiciary, is clearly very simple!

              Smoke and mirrors for people who want to believe in the man made sytems that are currently screwing the majority!

              • Mick McCrohon

                “Consent of the governed” is a phrase synonymous with a political theory wherein a government’s legitimacy and moral right to use state power is only justified and legal when derived from the people or society over which that political power is exercised. This theory of “consent” is historically contrasted to the divine right of kings and has often been invoked against the legitimacy of colonialism. Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that “The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government.”

      • John72 4.2.2

        Over 100 years ago, China “leased” Hong Kong to the UK for 99 years. The asset was returned to China with a vast increase in value. China was smart then, it still is.
        New Zealand is just a couple of islands off the coast of Australia and a different part of history is repeating itself. We are selling our assets for a few beads. Nothing sophisticated about our politicians.

      • Reality Bytes 4.2.3

        “This should be the biggest story in NZ over the past months”

        No time for that, Prince Charles did a weather forecast.

    • yeshe 4.3

      Court Report with Linda Clark on TVNZ 7 last night had Jane Kelsey and one of the counsel for our negotiators .. fascinating to see Jane Kelsey defeat the best of their arguments .. can anyone tell how to link to reply of Court Report ? (And the second half was about K Dotcom and extradition with an extradition specialist … fascinating !) Sorry, don’t have the names of the other parties.

      No wonder guvmint wants to shut down TVNZ7 …

      • yeshe 4.3.1

        just found it .. really worth the watch if you can ….


        • vto

          Well quite clearly, if the investor-state provisions are included then they should work in both directions so that if the NZ government changes its laws etc and that improves the investors position then the NZ government can claim compensation from the investor for that improvement.

          For example, the telecommunications sector infrastructure is upgraded by the NZ government thereby improving the value of an investment which uses the telecommunications sector infrastructure.

          That would be simple fairness would it not? Or do the investors expect it to go just one way?

          • muzza

            VTO – This is not about investors, this is about the takover of sovereign nations, in an attempt to form global government, on the back end of the corporate takeover. The environmental issue will be used in unison to take sovereignty also, they are closely linked!

            “Investors” – Meaning the banking system who supplies the means (fiat) with which for this takover to happen, are the core ingredient. People are blinded by thinking that the global casino, equities markets and the like, actually has distributed ownership accross a broad “investor base”, this is simply not true, and has been proven, buy three Swiss PhD’s, I’m sure you have seen it..

            Talk about investor fairness is simply missing the point – It can never be fair, except to those who own the monetary supplies of the world.

            First you have to consolidate regions, see NAFTA, EU, TPPA, African Union etc, then once in place you roll it up again, once more, possibly twice, before you have a single point of governence.

            People thinking this is not, or can’t happen, really need just need to look at the situation from a pragmatic point of view…The EU blowing up should potentially be something we all support, at least at face value.

            The trading of our sovereignty, is leading to global governence!

            • vto

              Thanks Muzza, that entire scenario is understood. My point was a simple little negotiating dig that’s all. But you are correct that that is what it is about – global governance. But then, perhaps that is a natural end-point for the huiman race in its current position? What with globalisation, greater movement of people around the world, instant communications, etc, perhaps it is simply a simple and obvious track for the human race to take? Perhaps it was always going to end in this? This is the natural way for the human race to evolve to?

              Perhaps it should be encourgaed?

              • muzza

                Hey VTO, yeah I figured from your posts that your comment was not an enquiry, when I posted I thought about not adding a a reply to yours but posting individually….anyway

                Not sure it will work out very well for the vast majority under a global governance structure, as it implies that in order for it to be “good”, those in control must not be evil in any way. I think history tells us that dictatorships do not generally play out nicely, and IMO under what would effectively be a corporate, scientifically capable, weaponed up, military and intelligence based potentially facist, global governance system, which would seek to control every aspect of humanity, most likely for its own goals or agendas.

                Personally this is not something I would want to see encouraged, and Ill assume your readings have passed you through the various scenarios, and some would say “theories” that global govt stems from, or might lead to. For me I would rather not want for sovereign nations to cede to foreign entities, but that is pretty much what we already have in many respects.

                Sadly peoples need to believe that the world and those running it are working for them, means that the chance of preventing further loss of sovereignty, is almost zero!

                Reminds me of Google’s original slogan “don’t be evil” – Why would you use that!

                Where it ends up, time will tell.

            • John72

              Very interesting muzza. Throughout history different countries have tried to rule the world. In the past they have probably been limited by transport and communications. The Romans had a very effective administration system, right down to local level admin., when Latin was the main language. Even “60 years ago” Latin was being taught in some NZ schools.
              World wide, Spanish is still more widely spoken than English because 400 years ago the Spanish were out there trying to rule the world.
              No one believed Japan could conquer the Pacific. Who was complacent then?
              It is so easy to think “It can not happen to me”. If this upsets some people Good, The truth hurts.

              • Reagan Cline

                Your comment about Spain is incorrect.

                Treaty of Tordesillas.

                Treaty of Zaragoza.

                If you are wrong in your comment about Spain, your other comments are likely to be wrong also.

                Your failure to properly inform yourself before spouting off leads to mistrust of public discourse – which is deeply immoral.

                If you are a christian, you will obey the commandment “thou shalt not bear false witness”.

                • John72

                  Regan Cline, thank you for your observation. Sadly you spoilt the oportunity to add to our knowledge.
                  One. I only said that Spain was one of many countries that have tried to rule the world. The Treatys you refer to confirm this.
                  Two. By nit picking and descending to personal criticizim you are destroying your own image. This is sad because you started well.

        • Mick McCrohon

          great video Carol

      • ianmac 4.3.3

        I was a virgin to Linda Clark’s Court Report but not now. Brilliant. I wish I could get 7 here -before the Government gets rid of the threat and arrange for popular reality programs for the masses instead.
        Thanks yeshe and Carol.

        • DH

          She’s good isn’t she? I’ve only recently seen a few of her Court Report interviews myself and I think she does an excellent job. She obviously researches the issue first but perhaps more importantly she listens to what the people are saying and then asks very pertinent questions that stay on topic. Pity most of the rest of the media aren’t of the same calibrer.

    • NickS 4.4


      This cannot be allowed to go forward, as it utterly messes with the basic concept of state sovereignty far more invasively than the usual international costs of doing business and generally being a good global actor.

    • joe90 4.5

      They’ve realised that the United Fruit method is just so 20th century.

  5. AAMC 5

    Modern Monetary Theory #MMT slides, you can’t consider the deficit in isolation.

    Something to think about for Left / Right / Green when it comes to their neoclassical mantra’s…

    Check out the effect Clinton’s surplus had on the private sector.

  6. weka 6

    Great post at The Hand Mirror by Luddite Journo demonstrating how to report on sexual assaults in ways that don’t undermine women or promote rape culture. Contrasted with how Stuff reports.

  7. Tiger Mountain 7

    Come on media do some proper research; re the Carterton hot air balloon skipper with reported THC in tox sample. Presence of cannabis as in work place drug testing shows use at some stage not necessarily impairment.

    Nasty crash for sure but was the pilot toasted at the time? Lets try and find out the truth. ShonKey and the testing industry (who benefit with their over priced piss kits) are feasting on this one.

    • Jackal 7.1

      Even an infrequent user can have a positive THC drug test result two weeks after their high is long gone… so yeah! The reporting around this issue seems more like spin to make the public believe in refer madness again. Meanwhile here’s some good reasons to decriminalize.

    • joe90 7.2

      What, decriminalise and lose the boot used on brown peoples necks.

    • Reagan Cline 7.3

      I searched Pubmed and found articles on Marijuana and pilot performance.

      Performance in a variety of tasks is impaired.

      No-one should be in charge of an airline unless they are “fit for duty”

    • Mick McCrohon 7.4

      cannabis gathers in our fatty tissues and can stay in the system for over 8 weeks after use . The “effects/impairment” (if any ,dose related) last for approximately 4 hours . The likelihood that cannabis was smoked prior to the flight is very unlikely .The flight took off at 6.38 AM from what I can find. Not many “smokers” would be sucking on a joint at that time of the day .

  8. Dv 8

    Now is this a worry?

    NZ govt bond sale fails BONDS
    11 May 12, 8:49am bnzeconomists
    NZ bond yields rise off their lows as government fails to sell NZ$100 mln of 2019 bonds at auction

    Reported in interest.co

  9. Penny Bright 9

    Campaigning last night in the heart of the Epsom electorate – Broadway Newmarket – opposite Remuera Rd.

    Give a grrl a banner! 😉

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’


  10. Rosie 10

    This here song is dedicated to a particular person who posted an offensive and patronising piece yestrerday on “Key has a whinge” by Eddie.

    I wonder if you experience Pollyanna sydrome – no one I know, myself included, have ever been grateful to work for minimum wage and unsociable hours. There is a stark reality of deprivation and isolation for thousands of NZer’s. Listen to the words in this song, its the truth. Sorry its not positive politics dude – it’s real

    Apologies to those who have heard it all before

  11. joe90 11


    Slowly, the soldiers began adding more stories, and tales of the past week blended with memories of killing and destruction during other missions and battles, in Afghanistan and Iraq, during many tours of duty. The men’s voices fell over each other in a clatter of brutality and homoerotic jokes.

    So I grabbed the chain and dragged it out and shot it again with the shotgun and, uhhhh, brains all over me …

    Shut up, faggot. You never did that …

    Man, even if you actually got to see some Afghan chick and she was hot, I still wouldn’t fuck her cause she’d still be from here, which means she’d still be covered with shit.

    My last deployment, my platoon sergeant, he’d say, “Make sure nothing lives. Cows: Taliban food. Sheep: Taliban food. Donkeys: Taliban transportation. Kill everything.”

    You know what? Fuck these people.

    • millsy 11.1

      A society is judged by the conduct of its soldiers..

      • John72 11.1.1

        It is most uncomfortable to live with that fear, that some one who was not there will feel qualified to pass judgement. The best defence is to say nothing.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Don’t have to be there to know that some actions are just wrong.

          Killing and raping – wrong
          Torturing of prisoners – wrong
          Covering up those actions – wrong

          Are these actions happening? Yes. Are we going to judge the soldiers that carried them out? Damn right we are. Are we going to hold those who defend such actions, such as yourself, in total contempt? Yep.

          • John72

            I am not trying to defend anyone. However, war is a horrible thing. Not entertainment in a Boxing ring, carefully controlled by a referee. Has anyone ever said to you “Here is a gun. The Government back in NZ has now authorized you to go out and kill people. There will never be time for a trial before pulling the triger. Not even a committee meeting.” In NZ you can not kill, even in self defence?
            I am not trying to defend anyone. Neither will I accuse them. I was not there and I do not trust the media.

            • Draco T Bastard

              I am not trying to defend anyone.

              Yes you were through the phrase that some one who was not there will feel qualified to pass judgement which is nothing other than a misdirection, a way to cast doubt.

              • John72

                A while ago I described someone who, while on patrol, saw a movement in the bush. It was the first time he had shot anyone. After sitting with the body for a while, even wondering if it had any family or friends, he thought he saw it move. What followed was with him for rest of his life. Thank God this was not me. The media is only telling you emotional tales that sell. I do not trust them.

  12. aerobubble 12

    self training. Is like driving over the white lines because you don’t want to follow the rules.
    Its thinking others possessions are yours. Its believing that violence is a matter of will power.

    The violent words used against teen mothers by this government, aren’t just restricted to that group, or won’t be. They come from a mentality that sees asset sales to pay down debt (cause by lowering top tax rates) as justified to grow the economy. Three wrongs don’t make a right.

    When I think of Pike river Mine, how the locals voted National, how the workers who died probably brought into the whole deregulation of the neo-liberals, that there would be no mine and no jobs if they have not had given away their consent to this ‘new’ world class mining mission. They were saving the west coast from an economic abyss.

    We train ourselves by buying into the Murdoch delusion that pervades the whole of the western world. We are not invincible, we do all make mistakes, and when they happen we should be humbled.
    How humble is Key? He could not be more cock sure that new rules to fight drug taking extreme sports workers will work. He could not be more sure that safety in mines can be restored, just as sure as he was before with the deregulated empty mining inspector seats. So worry, Key cannot an will never, do nuanced leadership, he will never actively represent the people of NZ, and when you buy into his ilk you give your consent to your own downfall.

    And what a downfall. NZers did not invent the automobile, Saudi’s did not make the crude trapped under them! NZ has a small population and huge wealth due to modern productivity gains from generations of innovation, that wealth is now to be owned by foreigners and not the children of those whose efforts (lives sometimes) made our country so rich. And you consent to that by voting national, or by supporting the labour party (who are required to take up a shallow limping opposition to the inherent lies of the right). Why isn’t Labour demanding a fair share, commodities prices are at all time highs, NZ is a hugely wealthy nation that is well place in the coming era of higher oil prices and resource strife.

    Vote out incompetence.

    • Jim Nald 12.1

      Re Pike River


      If the report is correct, the Pike River families have strong support from me and my family members too.

      What’s with the appalling record of our SOE? Solid Energy needs to be, not flogged off like John Key wants our assets to be done away, but their senior staff flogged.

      What kind of sneakily qualified, mealy mouthed phrase is that: “safe, technically feasible and financially credible to do so”??

      It isn’t enough just selling out our souls? Can we at least have bodies back?

      • vto 12.1.1

        John Key is about to get another well deserved headache.

        As Bernie Monk says in plain words “He lies”.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.2

      Vote out incompetence.

      It’s not incompetence. There’s no way anybody could do so much damage, see the damage that’s been caused and then do more without some idea as to what they want to achieve that requires that damage.

  13. Jackal 13

    Another broken promise

    John Key had promised the families of the deceased miners that the government would do all it takes to recover the bodies and money was no object. Todays announcement breaks that assurance and makes John Key’s words mean nothing…

    • aerobubble 13.1

      John Key never said any such thing, he was very clear to make a muddle of any such outcome.

      The mine should be declared a cemetery and until the bodies are remove should be held in that state of grace.

      Take a women, earning part time since their manager can’t find them enough work, no more than the benefit a week, and tell them the cost of contraception and how if they were laid off they’d get it for free. That the Human rights commission has nothing to say about the obvious discrimination. That nobody on TV sees the obvious message, don’t have kids on benefit, get a job and then have them.

      Its appalling the significant irrational myopia that comes across the media when National make up legislation without due consultation – that has the benefit to the government of not making them look like a pigs arse.

      Key said he will not govern for the people of NZ, over and again, by never articulate one issue and playing everything around an abstract ideology of growth and neo-liberalist invincibility. Its precisely because Key has not lead NZ for NZ, by NZ, that you can never assert that Key promised anything to those that lost their lives in the Mine. Its just not his thing.

      • John72 13.1.1

        Could you be a little mor explicit. Why does the woman you envisage need contrception? When I can not afford my “sport” I have to give it up until I can afford it. Whether it is drinking alchohol or skiing.

        • McFlock

          Read the comment again.
          Aerobubble never mentioned “needing” contraception (although rape tends to raise its ugly head as an example).

        • Reagan Cline

          Have you ever had fun together without someone paying cash for it John ?

      • Jim Nald 13.1.2

        Ah, Jackal and aerobubble have already pointed out the news.

  14. By starving our domestic economy and infrastructure we are reducing our economic resilience. There are lessons to be learned in history.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Nationhood dysmorphic disorder, encouraged by unhealthy mass media messages.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      It’s the capitalist’s politicians trying to save capitalism from it’s propensity to cause over accumulation. Now that that over accumulation has occurred it needs to be spread out again but instead of doing that the politicians are working to protect that over accumulation.

    • rosy 14.3

      and – After being bailed out by the Fed in 2008 to the tune of $12 billion, JP Morgan announces after trading closed yesterday that it has moved on to lose $2 Billion in derivatives trading.

      The people go jobless while traders burn money that could have gone on building infrastructure and boosting the job market.

      • Dave Kennedy 14.3.1

        Bring back Roosevelt and Savage I say, they didn’t grovel to big business and bankers. I can’t imagine Micky Savage allowing the closing of the Hillside Workshops, the running down of state housing, the selling off of state assets or groveling to Warner bros and changing employment law to accommodate them.

  15. Te Reo Putake 15

    Look like there won’t need to be a National candidate in the West Coast for a generation or two. Key’s lies to the families of the Pike River miners have killed off any chance of them ever winning the seat in the near future.
    And shame on Solid Energy for perpetuating the lie till now. What a gutless wonder Don Elder is, moaning about how tough it was for him to tell the families he was going to stab them in the back. Like his pain is in any way comperable to theirs.

  16. joe90 17

    The bleeding obvious confirmed.


    – A new study provides the best evidence to date that higher levels of income inequality in the United States actually lead to more deaths in the country over a period of years.

    The findings suggest that income inequality at any one point doesn’t work instantaneously – it begins increasing mortality rates 5 years later, and its influence peaks after 7 years, before fading after 12 years.

    “This finding is striking and it supports the argument that income inequality is a public health concern,” said Hui Zheng, author of the study and assistant professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

  17. NickS 18

    This is poverty:

    And the real kicker? Lack of food leads to poor success at school, which is linked to further poverty, along with all the usual negative health impacts.

    Meanwhile the government does naught but issue press releases and say that it’s a “priority” and fund a holiday highway with a negative ROI in the same region, with money that could lift thousands out of poverty with targeted investments.

    And even the simplest of acts, that of providing relief food aide via WINZ with little red tape, is seemingly beyond them.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Maybe we can make it legal for 12 year olds to dig up dirt for the highway as a paid job?

  18. Georgecom 19

    Just heard that Dunedin Stadium had a budget blow out. Did Bill English manage that budget as well?

    Bill Englishs economic forecasts, less use than a busted clock. A busted clock is at least right twice a day.

  19. captain hook 20

    tonight rnz national, chekpoint.
    two hours of toy party ministers putting the case for all the governments programmes.
    endless stream.
    nobody got a right o reply.
    very slick.
    who organised that one.

  20. Reagan Cline 21

    “French Enrepreneurs Flee From Hollande Wealth Rejection”

    Bloomberg article by Anne-Sylvaine Chassany and Jacqueline Simmons.

    • Colonial Viper 21.1


      These aren’t French “entrepreneurs”. The entrepreneurs in France are the SMEs being smashed by the established wealthy class and the financial repression of the communities they are doing business in!

  21. lprent 22

    Stephen Joyce – so boring.

    At the hi-tech awards waiting to see if we pick up an award..

    Hi tech – a revenue earner for nz that is bigger than sheep or wine. Virtually all of it has happened inthe last 15 years.

  22. Reality Bytes 23

    Pete George has had enough, he’s got the hair-meister to pull a few strings for him:


    All lol’s aside, Of course bullying sucks and is terrible! But the legal territory here is a slippery slope to some potentially dangerous censorship consequences. It needs to be considered very carefully, or we could actually find it leads to someone under the onslaught like Pete using this as a tool to repress free speech.

    I like to joke with people like Pete whom I disagree with, and I believe in giving shit were I think shit is due, but I’d hate to be considered a bully. And I only give shit to people as I believe they are up for a robust adult debate on things close to the heart.

    Play the ball not the man.

  23. Jackal 24

    Chaos in the Streets

    The government should realize that this is going to eventuate is somebody being seriously hurt or even dying if it continues. They should therefore halt the forced evictions and house removals…

  24. Colonial Viper 25

    Excellent synopsis on why neoclassical economics is factually and mathematically wrong

    Thanks go to Prof Steve Keen.

  25. A wee song to hum or sing along to over the weekend.
    “Don’t sell Our Assets Mr Key”

  26. Penny Bright 27

    The ongoing victimisation and persecution of Vince Siemer is a bloody disgrace.

    It makes me ashamed to be a New Zealander.

    Friday, 11 May 2012, 6:40 pm
    Press Release: LawFuel

    Vince Siemer to return to prison

    LawFuel.co.nz –

    NZ Law News – Vince Siemer has been ordered by the Court of Appeal to return to prison on 25 May following his loss of an appeal in the Court of Appeal, released today. The Court rejected argument made by his lawyer Tony Ellis as variously “misconceived” or inarguable and “without basis”.

    Mr Siemer’s appeal was against a contempt finding made by the High Court for breach of a suppression order. Allegations made by Siemer’s lawyer, Tony Ellis, that the proceedings brought against his client were partly out of personal animosity felt by the then Solicitor General (Justice David Collins) and that the contempt proceedings brought the rule of law into disrepute, were rejected by the Court of Appeal on the basis that they were of such generality as to be inarguable.

    They also rejected Mr Ellis’ argument that publication of the suppression order was not going to cause violence or any breach of fair trial rights.

    See the Decision here: http://www.lawfuel.co.nz/news/286/vince-siemer-ordered-back-to-prison

    How come in NZ ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ NZ Judges don’t have an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ – there is no Register of Pecuniary Interests for NZ Judges, and court proceedings are regularly not recorded?


    Check out the website of NZ’s foremost ‘whistleblower’ against judicial corruption and lack of accountability http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption’ campaigner

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